Mini 417: Dueling Gods Mafia Over

[Elias_the_thief]

yay.

random vote: omg

[Elias_the_thief]

you just pretty much claimed all on your own.

[Elias_the_thief]

also, all - im roleclaiming at 5 votes, maybe even 4 if i feel like it, and im not vanilla.

so dont vote for me.

ok. so first, you state that you're going to claim, when you had two votes on you. kinda overdefensive, but not that convincingly scummy. but then you go on to blackmail the town? dont vote for me or i'll claim and you guys will lose a power role? if you're not a vanilla, what stops you from being a power scum role? and furthermore, if you already said you're not vanilla, and it's true that youre a power townie, you'll just get NKed. Either you've decieved us, or you just set us up to lose a power role. either way, you're acting pretty anti town.

[Elias_the_thief]

Exactly why OMG is off the table for today's lynch, Elias.

One of two things will happen tonight:

(A. He's town (be it power role or vanilla) and one of the mafias will kill him, knowing he's a power role.
(B. He's mafia, but the OTHER mafia kills him, thinking he's a power role.

Either way, lynching him doesn't do us much good, as he's dead anyways.

Does anybody see a situation where OMG survives the night, now?

true enough. thanks for pointing that out. i might as well

unvote

[Elias_the_thief]

Exactly why OMG is off the table for today's lynch, Elias.

One of two things will happen tonight:

(A. He's town (be it power role or vanilla) and one of the mafias will kill him, knowing he's a power role.
(B. He's mafia, but the OTHER mafia kills him, thinking he's a power role.

Either way, lynching him doesn't do us much good, as he's dead anyways.

Does anybody see a situation where OMG survives the night, now?

Ummmm... other mafia? What do you know that we don't?

This game works like Dueling Gods, or as you may know, Mafia/Werewolves.

Game is in DAY. : )

if i remember correctly, then mafia/werewolves is traditionally a game with two killing groups (the mafia and the werewolves obviously). it's also a variation to have two mafia groups. i m pretty sure there are two mafia groups because of that, plus the name is dueling gods, which kind of makes sense for two mafia groups.

[Elias_the_thief]

yes im blackmailing town. ive completely lost faith in any one on this sites ability to play pro-town roles well so im just stopping everyone right now. at 4 votes im roleclaiming and yall is gonna have to deal with it. so dont let it get to that.

i dont see how this excuses your actions. you dont like how we're playing so you blackmail us? how exactly is that going to help the situation (not meeting your playing ability standards) , and how is that going to do anything except ensure us a loss?

[Elias_the_thief]

so, we're going to ignore OMG til night? and we're assuming that both mafias will try to kill him, so we're going to protect him? i think that's a little too much support for someone who's not even a confirmed protown power role, especially one who employs such anti town tactics. i think maybe it would be a good idea to vote up to four, and get him to claim ( he said he would at either 4 or 5).
I dont see how it could hurt much, and it would give us some more information. thoughts?

[Elias_the_thief]

so, we're going to ignore OMG til night? and we're assuming that both mafias will try to kill him, so we're going to protect him? i think that's a little too much support for someone who's not even a confirmed protown power role, especially one who employs such anti town tactics. i think maybe it would be a good idea to vote up to four, and get him to claim ( he said he would at either 4 or 5).
I dont see how it could hurt much, and it would give us some more information. thoughts?

I don't think a claim is already in order for omg, I am rather hoping to get some nformation about his alignment from his behavior. And as omg himself hinted with his rolefishing - a claim could very well hurt us, since not only town, but also scum receives the information in the claim.

I was just thinking that it wouldnt hurt us that much since he already hinted a power town role and will probably get killed off tonight anyways. But i guess that would only be if this was a vanilla game with just cops and doctors, and I guess it was a kind of faulty position. No, I'm not really going to push for a claim that much. But my real concern is having to have the doctor(s?) to protect him tonight when he's not confirmed protown. And seeing as there are two mafias, we could very well be protecting one mafia from another.

[Elias_the_thief]

so, we're going to ignore OMG til night? and we're assuming that both mafias will try to kill him, so we're going to protect him? i think that's a little too much support for someone who's not even a confirmed protown power role, especially one who employs such anti town tactics. i think maybe it would be a good idea to vote up to four, and get him to claim ( he said he would at either 4 or 5).
I dont see how it could hurt much, and it would give us some more information. thoughts?

not buying this at all.

FOS vote elias

rolefishing.

Also, I wasnt really rolefishing, I was trying to stimulate conversation, as implied from the "thoughts?" at the end of my post. thanks for attempting to shift suspicion to me though.

[Elias_the_thief]

um...i'm not sure you understand how to play the game, cokebottle...
either that or you're being an idiot.

[Elias_the_thief]

EBWOP: but if you're serious then i'd be very interested in the names of your scumbuddies.

[Elias_the_thief]

hmm. we dont know whether or not this guy is telling the truth. i think it's better to lynch him first to test him, and if that's true lynch CES, seeing as CES is the better player, and if it turns out not to be true, it would be best to have lynched the more expendable player (ie cokebottle) . If it turns out to be true, I dont think it will matter if we leave CES around to lynch tomorrow, because being a good player wont help you when you're pretty much confirmed scum.

[Elias_the_thief]

i dont know. i think it would be best to lynch cokebottle at this point. i'm gonna go ahead and

vote: cokebottle

seeing as cokebottles self vote doesnt actually count (not in bold) is that 3 votes, or four?

[Elias_the_thief]

they would probably both have three, or else the game would be unbalanced. this setup seems a little anti town either way, unless we have like 5 power roles.

[Elias_the_thief]

I'm not sure how voting cokebottle makes someone scummy. i mean, he claimed scum. and since we havent had that many leads as to other scum, there's not much of a better choice for a lynch. not to mention if he does turn up scum, we'll have 2 more likely scum. i think that cokebottle is probably the best lynch today. but I see your point about kison. I went back and read all of his posts. a post with more than a sentance is rare, and I have yet to see much of anything besides "I agree with 'insert name here'" and none of his own points really.

[Elias_the_thief]

i dont know. i think it would be best to lynch cokebottle at this point. i'm gonna go ahead and vote: cokebottle seeing as cokebottles self vote doesnt actually count (not in bold) is that 3 votes, or four?

No, your vote against cokebottle was already the fifth. Squirrels, myself, Kison, videoguy, and Elias are voting for cokebottle now.

ok. I hadn't realized that squirrels had a vote on him beforehand. Anyways, I guess coke is the play today, but i'm really uncertain about the truth of cokes supposed scumbuddies because as CES said, 6 mafia members would be pretty impossible to overcome, especially if theyre in two groups because that'll be 2 NK's everynight. i have to agree with that even though he's indicated as one of the scumbuddies. there's also the possibility of coke being a jackass who happens to be town. of course, coke is a jackass either way.

[Elias_the_thief]

we could try a no lynch today. with 2 NKs per night, that gives us 6 nights to win, or less depending on how lynching goes. we must be very careful.
but there's not much more we can do right now. we can either force a claim out of OMG, (which could easily hurt us) lynch cokebottle, or be content with a no lynch. at least those are our most likely options as I see it.

[Elias_the_thief]

er, my mistake. there's also the possibility of mafia hitting eachother. so we have more time than 6 turns.

[Elias_the_thief]

in that case i would support a cokebottle lynch, seeing as the other option i mentioned, forcing the OMG claim, seems kind of dumb at this point in the game.

[Elias_the_thief]

that was a simulpost. didnt notice you had posted that. i guess i might as well

unvote

. but I dont think CB is going to say much in terms of defense.

[Elias_the_thief]

my computer is being really wierd, sorry about that double post.

[Elias_the_thief]

regardless of whether we lynch cb today, could someone please unvote so we can give him some chance to give a serious defense? he is at -1 now and could get hammered at any point

ok, but I dont think we should expect much. he claimed scum, ratted out scumbuddies, attempted to self vote, and hasnt been back since. he didnt even repost to correct his vote (as in write it in bold). Not to mention theres not much of a defense you can give after claiming scum.

[Elias_the_thief]

Cops have one peek each, which has a 50% chance of finding scum....
eg. if i was club doctor, and peeked, say, kison, and it came up innocent, we would know 100% that kison wasnt club mafia
or eg. if i was spade doctor, and peeked, say, nyktorion, and it came up innocent, we would know 100% that nyk wasnt spade mafia

i think it's important to point out that we don't know whether there are godfathers or not, so it's not actually a 100% thing. if there are godfathers, then it's possible that the cop investigated a godfather and got an innocent. so unfortunately the cops info is not quite as reliable as the info from the roleblocker.

[Elias_the_thief]

personally i've become very curious as to why omg didnt want the doc to protect him. it makes me wonder what kind of role wouldnt want to be protected. maybe it was just a personal thing of omg's.
this game is getting pretty confusing.

[Elias_the_thief]

I found omg's plea not to be protected by the doc interesting as well. My personal guess would be that he wanted to make his protection unpredictable for either both mafias, or the other mafia (depending on his alignment). They would not know if the doc follows the plea or not, so basically he forced scum to play WIFOM with the doc.

I guess i'm inclined to agree with this reasoning for the plea. it does seem likely to be a protown move to me, though it could be as you said, one mafia attempting to confuse another. but one thing id like to point out is that we have no actual confirmation that OMG was the target of the mafia last night. it seems likely, seeing as he claimed a power role, but its not confirmed. personally i wouldve expected both mafias to target him. unless of course, he was in one of the mafias, and thus his mafia targetted CES instead.
because of this, my own opinion of the most likely events last night is that one mafia group, containing OMG, targetted CES, while the other mafia group targetted OMG. meanwhile, CES protected OMG because of his power role claim.
Obviously this is all theoretical hypotheses (hypothesi maybe?), and nothing i'd be comfortable basing a vote on. just throwing it out there for comments.

[Elias_the_thief]

you have a good point there elias. counter-possibility, the other mafia realised that i would be protected and decided to make a kill that would actually go through (i have nfi why they picked CES, maybe just because he is one of the better players in this game, and basically unreadable).

thats true enough. so in conclusion, we really have no direction in particular to head right now. We're pretty much back to day 1 except minus a doctor and roleblocker.

plays with squirrels, could you contribute something a little more helpful then "derf derf, omg is bad at mafia"?

im also wondoring where some players have gone. this game was really active day 1 but it just sort of died.

[Elias_the_thief]

you have a good point there elias. counter-possibility, the other mafia realised that i would be protected and decided to make a kill that would actually go through (i have nfi why they picked CES, maybe just because he is one of the better players in this game, and basically unreadable).

thats true enough. so in conclusion, we really have no direction in particular to head right now. We're pretty much back to day 1 except minus a doctor and roleblocker.

plays with squirrels, could you contribute something a little more helpful then "derf derf, omg is bad at mafia"?

im also wondoring where some players have gone. this game was really active day 1 but it just sort of died.

You're bro is so much cooler than you are.

well now i can say you've contributed something useful to the game.

[Elias_the_thief]

@ OMG, in my opinion, we pretty much had to lynch CB. I mean, he claimed scum. there's no reason a mod wouldve replaced him simply because he's dumb. if we hadnt lynched him, we would have had him just sitting around doing nothing. theres also the fact that he was misleading the town if he was lying, and if he's just going to do that, he's more use dead than alive to the town (or at least he seemed that way, before we found out he was a roleblocker). plus, he gave away a potential scum group. it was in our best interest to lynch him simply because of the possibility that he actually was scum, and that his group was indeed one of the mafia groups. Of course, I do agree with you that he was lynched way to fast, and more thought should have gone into his lynching. However, i think that we ended up doing what we probably wouldve done in the end.

@ Squirrels, I still dont think sage's "one of the mafias" comment was very scummy. anyone who read the mods original message, and was familiar with the meaning of "dueling gods", or with "werewolves" style of play would immediately realize that there should be two mafias.

@ kison. did you find anything in your readthrough?

[Elias_the_thief]

You are right, though, that we shouldn't accept OMG's claim automatically. I guess I'm just cautious from Triad mafia.

omg's claimed? i must have missed it. where did he claim?

by the way OMG, bragging about being better than other players (in truth, or not) isnt getting us any closer to finding scum. it really just distracts us from it.

er,

mod

, have we looked into a prod and possibility of replacement for sandy?

[Elias_the_thief]

any chance of a

votecount?

[Elias_the_thief]

... unbelievable

IDIOT

I'm really getting tired of this. it seems to that if anyone brings a point against you, good or bad, you call them an idiot and consider it a finished thing. if you're going to call someone an idiot, at least explain

why

theyre an idiot. becuase what you're doing just seems like a way to get yourself out of accusations.
There might be scenarios where you're right about the person being dumb, but i feel you should at least help them understand the concept, thus making them a better player, and maybe help the town out a little bit. i dont like that you criticize others play and then leave them in the dark as to why you didnt like their play.

[Elias_the_thief]

way to screw us over if that's true. youre being replaced either way.

replace: OMG

[Elias_the_thief]

we're not lynching you. we're replacing you.

[Elias_the_thief]

sure. his scum claim seems fairly sincere. and he admitted to his reasoning. so im gonna hamma.

vote: OMG

[Elias_the_thief]

ever think that maybe the mod tried to replace you because thats what YOU deserved? youre an asshole. stop posting, youre dead, and hopefully you'll be banned soon.

[Elias_the_thief]

whoa, days up. and we lost another power role. but only one kill, so i guess clubs doctor is doing his job.
I dont know about you guys, but I've been really thrown off by the OMG and cokebottle thing. I think i need some time to reread. Ill get back to you on that.

Vote Count

As of post 233

Nocmen (2) - Sage, Kison
Kison (1) - Nocmen
Not voting (5) - The rest of you

[Elias_the_thief]

its five to lynch i believe. i guess im comfortable with a

vote: nocmen

. it seems like a decent case kison has against you. but im more upset that you havent responded to it. it was posted a while ago.

[Elias_the_thief]

i love how you bash kison for assuming there are 3 scum in each group, but then go on to describe scum groups of 3. and then you make an anti town move to claim when its obv towns advantage not to. but im going to

unvote

since im not comfotable with the lynch, except in the case of a counterclaim or more evidence against you.

[Elias_the_thief]

yeah, those groups you listed seem complete BS to me. i definately dont know if im willing to lynch you now, your claim seems believable to me. theres gotta be a clubs cop, and theres been no counterclaim. even with the decreased importance of cops due to split mafia groups. since theres no counterclaim, we're going to have to accept you as clubs cop. though videoguy raises a good point about your voting patterns. its unfortunate that youve got no guilties.

the real question is "where is plays with squirrels?" and furthermore, what makes you believe that i am more likely scum than he? since you have such an in depth idea of who the scum are, id like to hear your reasons for believing those to be the scum groups.

Kison: i dont like that youre so intent to kill him. if he was lying about his role there would probably have been a counterclaim by now.

[Elias_the_thief]

um, how do we know there are 3 for certain?

[Elias_the_thief]

I still dont see why nocmen is confirmed scum, and I still want to know why nocmen feels that squirrels is the only other townie in the game, seeing as squirrels hasnt really been saying anything of worth throughout the whole game.

[Elias_the_thief]

yeah kison, its not proof hes clear, but i think its enough to put him at an uncertain state, and we cant just lynch him based on a little misinterpretation of you post, which as far as i can tell is the only real evidence against him. this continual pressure to lynch is disturbing.

The squirells was just a guess and I chose him as most possible to remain a townie. Hell, he could easily take the spot of SPAG or Videoguy, but I honestly dont know.

wah. i didnt think i was particularly scummy. could the spot be taken by me perhaps? or are you certain that im scum? if so, why?

so yeah, I agree with squirrels on his last point, theres no reason to continue to attempt to lynch someone whos claimed cop.
i guess im comfortable with expanding on my own opinions from post 246 and squirrels opinions and placing my

vote: kison

[Elias_the_thief]

but you have absolutely no reason to believe that its a false claim. the "he feels kinda not coppy" is not a good reason.

[Elias_the_thief]

I will be out of town and unable to post at all until Saturday.

[Elias_the_thief]

yeah. we lost a lot though. itll probably take a while to get all the games up and going again.

[Elias_the_thief]

well. i guess im starting to see the light behind the noc lynch, but i still dont support it fully. i DEFINATELY think we should look into other people before we just lynch him. unfortunately we lost some of the most important posts so far this game.

[Elias_the_thief]

um, we're almost at LYLO videoguy...your willingness to lynch an easily replacable lurker is borderline scummy

Vote Count

As of post 262

Nocmen (2) - Sage, Utnut
Kison (2) - Nocmen, Squirrels
Not voting (4) - The rest of you

Five to lynch!

[Elias_the_thief]

I agree with kison about that, I dont recall Nocmen posting much before the crash, (twice or thrice at the most) and my recollection of the events before the crash (about our argument) is what I recall as well.

[Elias_the_thief]

come on guys, this game is falling apart. I'm still reluctant to lynch Nocmen, but you guys seem set on it. I'd like to at least see some more posts before I place my vote simply for the purpose of advancing the game.

[Elias_the_thief]

He may be scum as long as we wait, but the longer we wait, the more damage he'll do. Killing him will be better than replacing him, since then we don't have to worry about an inactive replacement. And why not lynch him.

How will waiting for him allow him to deal more damage? Unless he can daykill, then I dont understand your post. The idea is that we want conversation to get a read on other players.

[Elias_the_thief]

by the way, im sorry for my recent absense guys, ive been sick for a while and I still am. After I post this I will return to bed. But you can expect me back in 1-2 days.

[Elias_the_thief]

That wasnt exactly the point of my comment. I meant that there was no reason to end the day quickly even if you are mafia, because I highly doubt daykill capabilities. I find Utnut's eagerness to end the day suspicious.

[Elias_the_thief]

This game is really going nowhere. I might be happy of a deadline at this point, just to get some discussion going. Anyways, I find Utnut more suspicious than nocmen at this point.

vote: utnut

[Elias_the_thief]

i think it results in a no lynch. but refer to the rules, it would probably say there. Im going to after I finish writing this.

[Elias_the_thief]

Finally, a replacement who will post something. (anything)

[Elias_the_thief]

Wow, nice to have a replacement who actually plays. About my GF post, it was in response to some analysis on the reliability of the cop. I just didnt want players to start making their calculations without considering the possiblity. It wasnt meant to assume we have GF's, it was meant to say we shouldnt assume we dont.

As for the second one, I guess it could be seen as fishing. But I wasnt exactly looking for a claim, I was looking for the other players thoughts on the possibility of forcing a claim.

And the scumlist, I agree with GSU, and I see your point on squirrel (i think i pointed out his lack of content earlier, thus warranting the "f*ck you, elias" post), but i dunno about nocmen. No counterclaim = me not lynching him today.

[Elias_the_thief]

noc...? answer??

[Elias_the_thief]

I think a GSU or Squirrels lynch would be the best play, but squirrels really needs to show up and start posting, or else we may need another replacement. (so Im voting GSU) What going on with all the flakes lately?

[Elias_the_thief]

Those are actually pretty good points. Its true he wasnt risking the game on it. But I dont think that you should be attacking people for taking your own guesses a step further.

[Elias_the_thief]

I think thats a lynch. wheres our mod?

[Elias_the_thief]

er, i thought i was the last town...
remember that the 3 vs 3 scum grouping is only hypothetical.

Vote: Nocmen

[Elias_the_thief]

oh, I didnt realize it was only three to lynch. though its pretty obvious that nocmen is scum, since GSU was confirmed.

[Elias_the_thief]

er, lets end this thing.

vote: sage

[Elias_the_thief]

er, i thought i was the last town...
remember that the 3 vs 3 scum grouping is only hypothetical.

Vote: Nocmen

maybe he believed this post...?

[Elias_the_thief]

/updates record on wiki
/high fives kison and sweeny