Mini 417: Dueling Gods Mafia Over

[Nocmen]

My listing of names were just guesses, or as I mentioned before my final thoughts on the game, because I was expecting one of the clubs to come and hammer me by now. Those were using Kisons numbers, if he is wrong and there is only 2 on each side, then my guess is Spades would be Kison and Sage, and Clubs would be Elias and Great Sir Utnut.

Vote Count

As of post 262

Nocmen (2) - Sage, Utnut
Kison (2) - Nocmen, Squirrels
Not voting (4) - The rest of you

Five to lynch!

[Sage]

I think there's three. I think Nocmen scum let it slip. It seems more like a slip to me than an attempt to fool us. What would scum gain by making us think there were three of each, instead of two? Better for them that we thought there were two each, so one could hide.

Another point in favor of there being three mafia: the lack of vanilla townie roles. We've lost a ton of town already and NONE of them have been vanilla. Statistically, I would have expected to see one by now. I could be wrong, and there could be vanilla townies. The presence of one vanilla townie could prove the 3-scum theory wrong. But unless someone claims vanilla townie, I think we should assume we have two groups of three scum, plus two power-town roles.

[Elias_the_thief]

I still dont see why nocmen is confirmed scum, and I still want to know why nocmen feels that squirrels is the only other townie in the game, seeing as squirrels hasnt really been saying anything of worth throughout the whole game.

[PlaysWithSquirrels]

I still dont see why nocmen is confirmed scum, and I still want to know why nocmen feels that squirrels is the only other townie in the game, seeing as squirrels hasnt really been saying anything of worth throughout the whole game.

Fuck you: Elias

[Nocmen]

The squirells was just a guess and I chose him as most possible to remain a townie. Hell, he could easily take the spot of SPAG or Videoguy, but I honestly dont know. With the way its playing out, heres my updated guesses of who could be scum

4:
Kison
Sage
Elias
Great Sir Utnut
6: Any of the other 3 (SPAG, Videoguy, Squirrels)

[Nocmen]

And PlaysWithSquirrels: Is that because Elias just proved you were scum?

[PlaysWithSquirrels]

This is ridiculous. Sage and Kison are voting for a claimed cop. Nobody has counterclaimed. Therefore, we should assume he's telling the truth based on what the setup has revealed. My guess is Sage and Kison are incahoots.

Vote: Kison

I've got my eye on you: Sage

[PlaysWithSquirrels]

And PlaysWithSquirrels: Is that because Elias just proved you were scum?

You got me.

[Kison]

This is ridiculous. Sage and Kison are voting for a claimed cop. Nobody has counterclaimed. Therefore, we should assume he's telling the truth based on what the setup has revealed. My guess is Sage and Kison are incahoots.

Vote: Kison

I've got my eye on you: Sage

The fact that no-one has counter-claimed is not as hardcore proof as you seem to think it is. As I pointed out before, if Nocmen is Clubs mafia, he could very well have falsely claimed to get the real Clubs cop to claim.

Secondly, put yourself in Nocmen's shoes. With three votes on him, after putting on such a horrible performance trying to start something with me for coming up with some statistical figures, the guy claims. If he's scum, what would he logically want to pick as his claim? Cop, of course. That way the Clubs doc wastes a night protection on him. If he really was the Cop, he'd obviously want to claim his true role. So, again, how is it you figure that his claim gives him the clearance for the day?

Thirdly, I specifically told the Cop and Doc not to claim unless they were close to being lynched. Obviously, Nocmen claimed, and I discussed that in the paragraph above. But what if Nocmen is lying? The real cop could still be hesitant to speak up because of the strong possibility that the 3 VS 3 scenario is correct and his loss during the night would be 1/2 of the remaining townies.

Look at what happened to Nyktorion.

[Elias_the_thief]

yeah kison, its not proof hes clear, but i think its enough to put him at an uncertain state, and we cant just lynch him based on a little misinterpretation of you post, which as far as i can tell is the only real evidence against him. this continual pressure to lynch is disturbing.

The squirells was just a guess and I chose him as most possible to remain a townie. Hell, he could easily take the spot of SPAG or Videoguy, but I honestly dont know.

wah. i didnt think i was particularly scummy. could the spot be taken by me perhaps? or are you certain that im scum? if so, why?

so yeah, I agree with squirrels on his last point, theres no reason to continue to attempt to lynch someone whos claimed cop.
i guess im comfortable with expanding on my own opinions from post 246 and squirrels opinions and placing my

vote: kison

[Kison]

yeah kison, its not proof hes clear, but i think its enough to put him at an uncertain state, and we cant just lynch him based on a little misinterpretation of you post, which as far as i can tell is the only real evidence against him. this continual pressure to lynch is disturbing.

so yeah, I agree with squirrels on his last point, theres no reason to continue to attempt to lynch someone whos claimed cop.
i guess im comfortable with expanding on my own opinions from post 246 and squirrels opinions and placing my

vote: kison

Well, believe it or not, accusations based on the number of "misinterpretations" he so hastily accumulated is a legitimate and serious scum tell, especially in the situation we're in right now. Focusing on his joined date, however, it is possible it's due to inexperience, but I'm not going to disregard what I've seen.

Questions :

1) At this point, with no Spades-blocking roles, do you think that the Spades Mafia would attempt to kill the Clubs cop, especially considering that the Clubs cop would be in their benefit against the Clubs Mafia?

2) If the answer to the first question is no, do you think then that the real Clubs cop should couner-claim Nocmen? The reason I ask is that we still have the Clubs doc, and if the Spades Mafia are not interested in killing the Clubs cop, then there's no reason that the cop should not counter claim in this situation.

I will

Unvote

until those questions are answered.

However, to me, it's a gamble, but it's the best way to figure this out.

Lastly, to you specifically, Elias. Getting rid of a falsely claimed cop is something I consider a priority, because it'd screw with us in multiple ways : False information, wasted doc protection, and a lynch-free scum.

[Elias_the_thief]

but you have absolutely no reason to believe that its a false claim. the "he feels kinda not coppy" is not a good reason.

[Kison]

but you have absolutely no reason to believe that its a false claim. the "he feels kinda not coppy" is not a good reason.

But do we have reason to believe it's a true claim? I will agree that the potential loss over it being a true claim is much worse than the potential loss of it being a false claim. However, that is why I am asking those two questions. What is your response?

[Sage]

There isn't going to be a counterclaim. It would be town suicide.

Working on the theory that we have 6 scum and 2 town left (because I haven't seen any vanilla townie claims) a counterclaim would help get nocmen lynched, and, as has been said, the clubs doctor would be able to protect the cop. However, let's look at the situation:

The town's only weapon is the lynch. In order to lynch, a majority is necessary. It's impossible for the town to get a majority with only one member.

The clubs doctor can protect the cop against the clubs mafia, but not against the spades. At any time of their choosing, the spades could kill off the cop. The town loses because they are unable, in any situation, to lynch the last scum.

[Sage]

Also, are we EVER going to hear from Sandy/SPAGS? Have they posted anything? At all?

[Sage]

I'd also like to point out that everyone should be falling into one of two camps right now:

Camp A: Nocmen is lying, and I am voting for Nocmen

Camp B: Nocmen is telling the truth, so I am NOT voting for Kison.

Why not Kison? Nocmen said he wasn't a clubs mafia, and a spades mafia wouldn't WANT the real clubs cop to get lynched, because what's bad for clubs is good for spades!

Let's just assume that Nocmen is lying, because if he was telling the truth the town would be lost anyways. So if he dies and the town loses, it's not much worse than him living, getting killed, and losing anyways.

[Great Sir Utnut]

I have been "lurking" because I only get on once a day. I just dont have enough free time to get on more than that.

Nocmen definetely is not the cop. If I were the cop, I would roleclaim in his position (the real cop shouldnt) but his posts and the way he acts just doesnt seem like cop to me. I think he is Spades mafia, because if he were clubs, the real cop could investigate him tonight.

If the cop were to counterclaim, he would be safe tonight, but in the long run, the town would be screwed. Right now, the town needs to remain anonomous.

[videoguy]

I kind of agree with GSU on those points, we don't need a cop to fully come out and counterclaim now yet since it's town suicide. We can cross that bridge later. We don't have to lynch Nocmen if we don't fully believe him, either, at this point.

[Elias_the_thief]

I will be out of town and unable to post at all until Saturday.

[livingod]

MS back up! Yaay!

[Elias_the_thief]

yeah. we lost a lot though. itll probably take a while to get all the games up and going again.

[Great Sir Utnut]

What happened?

[livingod]

Well, let's get back up on our feet!

[Elias_the_thief]

well. i guess im starting to see the light behind the noc lynch, but i still dont support it fully. i DEFINATELY think we should look into other people before we just lynch him. unfortunately we lost some of the most important posts so far this game.

[videoguy]

I think he is Spades mafia, because if he were clubs, the real cop could investigate him tonight.

The real cop, if there was one, wouldn't need to waste an investigation on someone who falsely claimed, because the cop would know he's the cop, so Nocmen would be lying.

That said, I don't know if getting rid of Noc right now makes much of a difference, or whether voting someone else for now would make more sense.

I also don't know if Sandy/SPAG had shown up before the lost posts, Mod, can we get a

prod on SPAG

? I'd hate to see so many days go by without an active person. I'm tempted to vote them just to get rid of the dead weight.