Mini 417: Dueling Gods Mafia Over

[livingod]

Vote Count

As of post 60

Squirrels (2) - CES, Coke
Omg (1) - Nyktorion
CES (1) - Kison
Nyktorion (1) - Sage
Sage (1) - Videoguy
Coke (1) - Squirrels
Not Voting (5) - Utnut, Sandy, Nocmen, Elias, Omg

Seven to lynch.

[Elias_the_thief]

Exactly why OMG is off the table for today's lynch, Elias.

One of two things will happen tonight:

(A. He's town (be it power role or vanilla) and one of the mafias will kill him, knowing he's a power role.
(B. He's mafia, but the OTHER mafia kills him, thinking he's a power role.

Either way, lynching him doesn't do us much good, as he's dead anyways.

Does anybody see a situation where OMG survives the night, now?

true enough. thanks for pointing that out. i might as well

unvote

[Kison]

omg he's innocent wtf...

[PlaysWithSquirrels]

Exactly why OMG is off the table for today's lynch, Elias.

One of two things will happen tonight:

(A. He's town (be it power role or vanilla) and one of the mafias will kill him, knowing he's a power role.
(B. He's mafia, but the OTHER mafia kills him, thinking he's a power role.

Either way, lynching him doesn't do us much good, as he's dead anyways.

Does anybody see a situation where OMG survives the night, now?

Ummmm... other mafia? What do you know that we don't?

[Elias_the_thief]

Exactly why OMG is off the table for today's lynch, Elias.

One of two things will happen tonight:

(A. He's town (be it power role or vanilla) and one of the mafias will kill him, knowing he's a power role.
(B. He's mafia, but the OTHER mafia kills him, thinking he's a power role.

Either way, lynching him doesn't do us much good, as he's dead anyways.

Does anybody see a situation where OMG survives the night, now?

Ummmm... other mafia? What do you know that we don't?

This game works like Dueling Gods, or as you may know, Mafia/Werewolves.

Game is in DAY. : )

if i remember correctly, then mafia/werewolves is traditionally a game with two killing groups (the mafia and the werewolves obviously). it's also a variation to have two mafia groups. i m pretty sure there are two mafia groups because of that, plus the name is dueling gods, which kind of makes sense for two mafia groups.

[Sage]

I would have asked for clarification, but I assumed everyone already knew and my ignorance was a result of how little time I've spent on this site.

MOD: There's two mafias, right?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

yeah mod: im so confused about everything in this game, could we please have a brief explanation? ive played games with 2 scum groups in them before, but whats the exact structure of this game?

sage - w/e. ppl on this site will ALWAYS lynch me day 1 because they have no clue how to read ppl and think anyone that doesnt act exactly the same as them is scum. i just preempted it. you can call it overdefensive but i would bet any amount of money that after nyks stupid craplogic post like 3 other ppl would have jumped on my bandwagon. btw, im not sure if it was obv or not but i was really really drunk in the other game when i self hammered.

yes im blackmailing town. ive completely lost faith in any one on this sites ability to play pro-town roles well so im just stopping everyone right now. at 4 votes im roleclaiming and yall is gonna have to deal with it. so dont let it get to that.

unvote

. squirrels reaction to sage post about not knowing the 2 mafia groups is exactly what i was thinking, i was about to vote sage for it. it could be a clever angle shoot but for now im unvoting.

Minor FOS: Sage

for knowing too much in post 49, then trying to appear like he knows nothing at all in post 55 "MOD: There's two mafias, right?"

its only a minor FOS because im gonna wait and see if what sage knew was actually common knowledge....

[videoguy]

Well, that still doesn't answer the question as to

why

it's craplogic. Perhaps you get lynched so often because your behavior doesn't seem to benefit the town. After all, all you've done 2 pages into the game is pretty much guarantee that we lose one of our role players before day 2 begins, and that's not helpful to the town.

Remember, as an individual, you win with the town whether you're alive at the end or not.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The basic setup, as I understand it, is this.

2 Werewolves,
1 Seer (Cop that only catches werewolves)
1 Bane (Doc that only protects from Werevolves)
2 Mafia,
1 Cop (Only catches Mafia)
1 Doc (Only protects from Mafia)

I'm not sure what terminology our Mod used or the exact setup but that's the basic Dueling Gods setup.

[Nocmen]

fos:Sage

for possibly knowing too much about this game, but it could just be that he read something more that was publically visible yet none of us bothered to look at it. If he or LG shows that this info was assumed or given out and we didnt find it, then I will easily retract this. Or just laugh at Sage for assuming too much

After a reread, omg really had to be out of there going with his plan. I sort of feel he would be a vote worthy scum, but he really could be a pro-town role as mentioned with his play style and other games.

I will remain unvoted for now, just because of the fact that omg might have a power role for us, and if he does, we go down early with a mislynch.

[Nyktorion]

I did not know about Dueling Gods either, and I did not immediately find something about it on this page, so I googled for it. The first result that came up was the following:

Dueling Gods

Therefore, it seems pretty reasonable to assume that we have two mafias in this game, even when not knowing about it from the role PM.

So who can win again?

Unlike regular mafia where there are two groups vying for power (either the citizens or the mafia wins) here there are three groups of people vying for power: Spade Mafia, Club Mafia, Citizens

If we assume 14 people are playing that means we have:

Group #1: Spade Mafia - 3 People
Group #2: Club Mafia - 3 People
Group #3: Citizens - 8 People (made up of 2 doctors, 2 cops, and 4 citizens)

In the end only one group can win. So yes that means that Spades Mafia wants to kill off the Clubs Mafia and vice versa.

Since we are only 12 people, and over 50% of the playerbase made up from mafia seems a bit much, I think that the "basic dueling gods" setup described by CES is very likely to be the setup of this game. Since this setup favors town a little bit more than the setup in my link, I don't think that the town has a lot of extra power beyond the cops and docs.

omg, what I am seeing from you at this moment might be "your playstyle". However, still it hurts the town beyond the fact that you are just acting in a different way than we do. You have repeated your craplogic-accusation against me without giving it any reasoning, and you are being defensive against things that haven't been that serious

yet

, resulting in useful information for the mafia. All of that muddies the waters and makes it harder for town to find scum, therefore I want to ask you seriously to become a little bit less jumpy and more thought out in your attacks and defenses.

Exactly why OMG is off the table for today's lynch, Elias.

One of two things will happen tonight:

(A. He's town (be it power role or vanilla) and one of the mafias will kill him, knowing he's a power role.
(B. He's mafia, but the OTHER mafia kills him, thinking he's a power role.

Either way, lynching him doesn't do us much good, as he's dead anyways.

Does anybody see a situation where OMG survives the night, now?

We have a doctor against each of the two mafias, so I do see situations where omg survives the night. So if omg could convince us that he is town rather than scum, this might get him that protection. Also, I would like to go somewhat deeper into your logic: lynching probable scum would then be bad since the other mafia could take care of that. Lynching town is obviously bad, too. So is a No-Lynch our best strategy by your logic, or have I forgotten a scenario where lynching probable scum is the best thing for town, even when considering this logic?

[livingod]

Every player in this game is split up into two groups. You should be able to deduce what groups they are. It is even written in your PMs.

[PlaysWithSquirrels]

Ok. I just misunderstood the opening post. I guess two mafias were implied from the very beginning.

[Sage]

Yeah, I googled Dueling Gods when the opening post wasn't completely clear.

Nyk, my logic is mostly based on the belief that omg isn't going to convince us that he's town. Sorry, omg, but I don't think too highly of your playstyle...you don't seem to understand fully that the town is your team, and being able to say "I told you so" shouldn't be a reward. But that's the way you played Triad, and you're starting to show the same signs here. If you want to help your team win, please convince us that you're town. And by that, I mean start acting PRO-town!

I don't think No Lynch is a good option, Nyk, because it's our only weapon against scum. While it may seem easy to sit back and let scum kill each other, it'll lose it for us in the end. Also, the process of choosing a lynch victim and analyzing vote patterns is how we (A. Highlight possible scum for lynching and (B. Highlight possible scum for the OTHER scum to kill. Playing no lynch denies us that, even if it prevents us from lynching wrongly.

Why I don't think we should lynch OMG is because it won't really tell us anything. With the way he acts, nobody could really blame anyone for voting him. And, if his history is any indication, OMG would possibly self-hammer, removing another clue from us.

So my policy with OMG is to more or less ignore him. However, if he can turn himself around, act pro-town, and convince us to protect him...he may be of some worth to us.

[Nyktorion]

I see, Sage, so your argument was not really a general one, but rather a specific one about omg. No-Lynching on D1 as the best possible strategy would indeed have been something quite new for me compared to what I have learned about mafia so far, so it's good that we have cleared that pointed up.

I can see your points about the lack of information of a lynch of omgtown. However, there is of course still the possibility that omg is scum hiding behind this playstyle (it's not really sure, but still a good possibility), so we will have to get some more indications about his alignment (the best way of that would be, as already mentioned, active help for the town at scumfinding by omg himself). But, I can't really befriend myself with the omg-ignoring-policy either, for this reason.

[PlaysWithSquirrels]

I wish I would have known this before I signed up. This is completely different from normal mafia. It's a game of allegiances. Not only do I have to find scum, but I have to figure out which scum they are =/. It's possible that lynching the "wrong" scum could lead to a loss and I don't like that. Games should be about just catching scum.

That being said, I'm in it for the long haul. I'm not dropping. Just saying that I wish Livingod would have been a bit more explicit about the setup from the beginning.

[PlaysWithSquirrels]

I wish I would have known this before I signed up. This is completely different from normal mafia. It's a game of allegiances. Not only do I have to find scum, but I have to figure out which scum they are =/. It's possible that lynching the "wrong" scum could lead to a loss and I don't like that. Games should be about just catching scum.

That being said, I'm in it for the long haul. I'm not dropping. Just saying that I wish Livingod would have been a bit more explicit about the setup from the beginning.

[/rant]

[Elias_the_thief]

yes im blackmailing town. ive completely lost faith in any one on this sites ability to play pro-town roles well so im just stopping everyone right now. at 4 votes im roleclaiming and yall is gonna have to deal with it. so dont let it get to that.

i dont see how this excuses your actions. you dont like how we're playing so you blackmail us? how exactly is that going to help the situation (not meeting your playing ability standards) , and how is that going to do anything except ensure us a loss?

[videoguy]

And, blackmailing the town is hardly logical. It's something any scum can do as well and doesn't really help us figure out anything. If scum acted like you did, we'd just end up in D1 forever, with everyone afraid of voting for anyone else.

It'd be more helpful to try and help us figure out who is more likely scum than just shut down any attempt we make at trying to deduce the same about you.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

lol it means you wont lynch me, thats good for me. every other game ive been in by now im bandwagonned to at least -1, even when completely obviously pro-town, so ive effectively changed that . im making progress =) . the threat still stands, just dont vote me and we have no problems. to all those asking me questions/telling me how to play i really dont care. ok now lets concentrate instead on finding scum....

a general point: im really not sure of what our strategy should be with regards to 2 mafia in the game. ive only ever played 2 mafia games before as scum.... and i will say they are very tricky to play when you are scum. it should be pointed out if its not already obv that there is a good chance scum will lynch each other, or kill each other off... endgames are much more volatile. anyone have any thoughts?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

btw, ive learnt enough from play on this site to be able to say that any defense or rationally thought out post i make will be almost 100% used as a scumtell. thats why im not making them any more. im not giving you guys the chance to quote every single thing i say and claim that its 'scummy'.

[Elias_the_thief]

so, we're going to ignore OMG til night? and we're assuming that both mafias will try to kill him, so we're going to protect him? i think that's a little too much support for someone who's not even a confirmed protown power role, especially one who employs such anti town tactics. i think maybe it would be a good idea to vote up to four, and get him to claim ( he said he would at either 4 or 5).
I dont see how it could hurt much, and it would give us some more information. thoughts?

[Kison]

I agree, we shouldn't go to the extent of protecting him, nor should he be cleared by any means.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

so, we're going to ignore OMG til night? and we're assuming that both mafias will try to kill him, so we're going to protect him? i think that's a little too much support for someone who's not even a confirmed protown power role, especially one who employs such anti town tactics. i think maybe it would be a good idea to vote up to four, and get him to claim ( he said he would at either 4 or 5).
I dont see how it could hurt much, and it would give us some more information. thoughts?

not buying this at all.

FOS vote elias

rolefishing.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

err thats an FOS not a vote