Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[Albert B. Rampage]

No rude behavior.

No lying about your role.

No claims before L-2. If you start the day with a guilty and you intend to claim on that day, keep it until the end of the day or when discussion dies down.

No quickhammering.



No women, no kids.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VOTE: Alby B.

Because it's Albert

UNVOTE: Alby boy

I've gotta say Gamr, I don't like the way you wrote that.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Don't act like you're familiar with me. I hardly remember you existed.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The game opened yesterday.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Last night, I dreamt that I got quicklynched on page 3 in this game. I'm still re-adjusting.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: Slandaar

I haven't seen anything particularly scummy in this game, and several posts seemed relatively town, so by process of elimination, I've determined that Slandaar is likely scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

No, I don't. I could be convinced of voting for him, but there are already many votes on that wagon.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Given that you announced that you wanted him speedlynched, I'm reluctant to encourage that behavior, given the dream I had last night.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Maxous, would you say that you have a gut scum read on Slaandaar?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think it goes deeper than that.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Can you vote for someone, Macros? We need to put pressure.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Drop it like a baby, Macros.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The mention of it being a speedlynch turned me off from voting for him. He doesn't strike me as scummy, either.

I think Slandaar is scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

My dream, remember?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't want to talk about the town tells I've noticed, as that would only advantage the scum, and make people try to meta me in the future. A gut read on Slandaar is the best I can give you right now.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote Slandaar

Vote Garmr

Still think Slandaar is scum, however I can get behind a Garmr wagon.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nice try, Garmr's buddy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

List of activities to consider at this time:

-Discussions about theory and policy
-Gut reads
-Pretending like you have a reason to vote for someone
-Blowing minor anti-town null tells out of proportion

Now how much I will do 3 and 4 depends on my energy in the game. Energy is looking low right now. I contribute with my vote and my gut reads, and you will wait until the game gets serious for me to take a proactive approach. I see you guys literally making things up, making untenable assumptions, that don't make any sense except to reinforce your bias, as an excuse to move the game along, or worst, to seem like you're scumhunting. You might as well be honest like me and say you've got nothing and vote where your heart tells you.

See the callsign under my name. Do you really expect logical reasoning from someone with this callsign? Vote for me if you want, it's completely useless because you're misreading my intent. I'm not attacking anyone because I didn't see anyone do anything that can be even remotely potrayed as suspicious.

"Garmr is the easy baitwagon."

Please, don't insult us.

[Albert B. Rampage]

#147 is literally a piece of crap.

"X Provides reasoning to his votes. Neutral-Town."

What the hell are you talking about? Do you think only town can make up a half-baked reason to justify a vote? Have you seriously been playing since 2007? Show me your town games, I want to read your meta.

Also, Slandaar-Thor is simply annoying to read. I can't follow this back-and-forth.

"Garmr is the easy baitwagon." Please, don't insult us.

How would you describe the wagon on him?

It's not how I would describe it. It's the disrespect that IceNinja has for everyone voting for Garmr. He boasts like he knows a scum trap when he sees one. I have great doubts about the inferences that can be made from the Garmr wagon.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Are you saying Iec is scum or are you saying he's annoying to you on a personal levl?

Because if it's the first then your current vote makes no sense.
If it's the latter, I'm not sure the value in bringing it up if you don't care to defend the wagon and/or your vote instead of just tossing back annoyance at him.

I'm not saying that IceNinja is scum at all. He isn't even annoying. He's simply insulting my intelligence, and everyone on the Garmr wagon.

Of course the Garmr wagon is a scum setup.

He doesn't know that. Regardless of alignment, he knows that the Garmr wagon has a fickle logical reasoning, and the wagon will fall apart, so he opts to place his vote elsewhere. This isn't alignment-indicative. I'd do the same thing to hedge our odds. Competing wagons provide evidence in future days, as tool accutely remarked.

#147 is literally a piece of crap.

Why thank you.

You're welcome I only offer criticism when it's appreciated. I don't understand your reason for suspecting Slandaar that you describe in #147. Could you be so kind as to explain it, with the appropriate quotes from him?

[Albert B. Rampage]

My question for you is this -- what led to your gut feeling that it was worth it to put Garmr at L-2?

He's not part of my town list, and that's good enough reason. The list will remain undisclosed. As I said, I'm functioning by process of elmination and picking off whoever doesn't make the list.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ABR: I don't get how saying who you think is town benefits the mafia. Could you explain?

On day 1, explaining this makes scum play better, and makes it easier for other players to meta me. I don't want to dwell on this. I'll explain a town read if I have to.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Meta me from different games. No, that's not good. It messes with my reads.

My mental energy gets consumed when I have to lie about my suspicions. Reading, observing, comparing, that doesn't take energy.

Thor, don't call IceNinja Iec. It's an insult to Iecerint.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Tool: "X Provides reasoning to his votes. Neutral-Town."
Scum: "Let's provide more and better reasoning to our votes so we can get through the day without getting lynched."

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thor, don't call IceNinja Iec. It's an insult to Iecerint.

Now you're just being rude.

You caught me

Also, I never said it was a scum trap, it's the easy wagon. Scum jump on the easiest person to lynch day 1, which you've done.

Are you on crack? Because you clearly don't know who you're dealing with.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That's too vague. You can't just adopt someone else's entire playstyle, and even if you did, you wouldn't catch the subtleties that hint at their alignment the same way I would. It's a useless exercise.

IceNinja, explain to us why you think Garmr is an easy wagon. I feel like this is something the town should hear from you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I played a complete game vs. IceNinja here where we were both town and won: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=23705

Thor was also in the game as scum and died.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If you look at my meta in that game, it's exactly the same as here btw.

[Albert B. Rampage]

a lot of my reasoning for finding him scum is wrong.

Yup.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't understand the reasons for voting Slandaar. His exchange with Thor isn't scummy IMO.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't understand the reasons for voting Slandaar. His exchange with Thor isn't scummy IMO.

What about the misrep?

Could be a mix of trying to post content and getting into an argument with you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think Thor is serious about trying to lynch Slandaar. He read the situation, weighed his options, and decided that he could lynch Slandaar.

I don't think the strong language he's using describes his true feelings towards Slandaar.

It's an accusation of hypocrisy. Accusing someone of over-explaining while doing a line by line analysis. Everyone is hypocritical. You have to be, in this game, whether you know it or not.

Well, it turns out that this made Slandaar tunnel very aggressively on Thor. It's my guess that Thor then decided that Slandaar would be a good wagon to stay on, and even lynch. Thor's approach of a long line of questioning followed by a vote seems pre-meditated.

I'm the only one even close to have played as many games as Thor here, and I'll talk to you about uncertainty. Leading the town like that, from an argument you generated from your own line of questioning, it doesn't help you read into the game. It doesn't help other players to contribute. Thor would be probing TCold and others who have posted less, asking them to join him, so he could evaluate their play. He wouldn't put a general call out to lynch Slandaar, like a mob boss putting a hit out on a snitch. That doesn't help him as town. It helps someone with an agenda, and a plan to achieve it.

Vote: Thor

[Albert B. Rampage]

Putting it more succinctly, Thor putting a general call out to lynch Slandaar is hilariously scummy with zakk, TCold, Axxle, etc. having posted so little. It reads like someone who is interested in convincing others of his opinion, therefore manipulating the lynch, rather than peering through the veil using his own observational skills.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's this guy:



Vincent Cassel.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Town is getting a great deal out of it, by shedding light on Thor being scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Go ahead and link me to your last 3 games, Thor.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Read the first two games Thor has linked. Thor is scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

No, it's plain as day that you're scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I did. Nowhere in those games do you put a general call out to lynch the person you thought was scum. You probe, you ask questions, you make statements like "Let's see where this wagon goes". This is similar to what I'm doing in this game (my vote on Garmr or Slandaar). However, here, you don't do those things, you jump to a per-determined conclusion and aren't interested in anything except controlling the lynch. I'll repeat it again for you. Your certainty on Slandaar (ie: the language you're using, your posts, the tone) doesn't match that of a townie in early game interested in breaking the narrative.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Slandaar; are you ready to lynch Thor, or do you think you need more discussion to make up your mind before fully committing to him hanging? No getting cold feet once this bandwagon takes off.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Once he gets 4-5 votes, it's not the time to have second thoughts. We might not ever build the necessary momentum to lynch him again, if we miss our chance.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nowhere in those games do you put a general call out to lynch the person you thought was scum.

Yes, I do.

Let's just go to the first game I linked.

All your votes are currently useless. Either start making *amazing* cases on your chosen target, or move somewhere useful.
Sheeping me is allowed.

There's one.

I'm going to go ahead and lob 'not reading thread' as another reason people should sheep me on Slaine.

There's another.

What other lies are you basing this case on?

That's page 30. Being certain of something on page 30 is a long shot from page 10, with the amount of information we've both seen from Slandaar.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It was also on Day 2, after a night kill. And even the language you use there is more passive than the one here. All in all, if you look at your early Day 1 play in those games, it showcases exactly what I've pointed out about your play.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The quote says he's willing to lynch one player or another. That's very far away from being certain that one player is scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm suspicious or Thor is suspicious?

[Albert B. Rampage]

The word you're looking for is "articulating". Yes, many of us do agree that Thor is scummy, however it's mighty important that other players than me, Slandaar, ICEninja and a few others weigh in on the game, so we clearly know where everyone stands.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not interested in Thor's meta. I said his play was scummy and he says that's how he plays as town. I asked him to show me, and his most recent games are all invalid because he replaces in late, is scum, etc.

The meta of Thor was for him to say "here's proof I do this as town".

He's hasn't shown this. You can't take his meta and go you didn't do this one scummy thing therefore you're not scum. Not how it works.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I've got a big problem with Sir Bastion for implying that I'm attacking Thor for meta, when in fact, that's actually what his defence rests on.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Heck, i literally just had a Newbie end where I did this.
Day 1 *and* Day 2.

i can link if you'd like to continue to claim that you remotely understand how I play the game as town or scum.

The quote from Thor above is the only reason meta was brought up in the first place.

Read the first two games Thor has linked. Thor is scum.

The quote above is missing an "I" at the beginning of the sentence and is meant to be read from my perspective. In other words, "I've read the games you linked and it isn't a good defence."

You're completely mixed up about the events of this game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert's original case relies too much on him appealing to authority and I frankly feel it's only gained weight because of the claim that thor's play is not consistent with the three other he posted.

I'll repeat again: the only reason his games were brought up was because he used "meta" as a defence. He posted some games and failed to show any correlation. I asked for the 3 most recent games because he said "I just completed a newbie where I did exactly this! Can link if you want!".

Zac needs to post more about other things in the game so I can get a decent read.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Step 2: Later the same day, he knows exactly how Thor plays as scum or town, and can apply that in a case on Thor.

I never said I know how Thor plays as scum, but I do recognize good play.

Game recognize game, and right now you ain't looking too familiar.

That being said, I agree with Zakk needing motivation to post because that jump was mighty suspicious.

[Albert B. Rampage]

My contention is that Thor isn't interested in finding scum, only in controlling the lynch. I've stated the behaviors that Thor showed to lead me to believe this. Ie: Calling out to the town to lynch Slandaar. In context, this doesn't make sense because no one who read the same posts that Thor did, found anything particularly scummy with it. With the recent revelation about the history between Thor and Slandaar, I'm not sure if that's what influenced him to vote for Slandaar or not, but it's a bad vote, and it's a bad decision to put out an open call to lynch him. That's what I've accused Thor of.

And now his OMGUS. Sad thing is that I was debating if I should unvote him after his rivalry with Slandaar became more apparent, but this throws a nice monkey wrench into that plan.

His posts this page aren't raising any red flags for me, but he may just be a very good actor who is starting to understand the seriousness of his situation. I might have to actually read his scum meta

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm saying Thor wouldn't do that as scum because it's a generally scummy thing to do. Not that I know Thor so well that him doing that means he's scum. There's no contradiction there.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

I'm saying Thor wouldn't do that as town because it's a generally scummy thing to do. Not that I know Thor so well that him doing that means he's scum. There's no contradiction there.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thor, the scummy part is where you don't have enough information to think Slandaar is scum, yet you push his lynch with a song on your lips.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Now we also need to point out that town do this sort of thing all the time.
So why do you think I am one of those players who, when town wouldn't, and when scum would change my playstyle and do exactly that?

So you can lynch Slandaar with minimal contribution from most players on Day 1.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It addresses it completely. You would change your strategy to achieve a different objective. As town, you're trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together, which you need a lot contribution from players for, whereas as scum, you just need them to sheep you so you can control the lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm pointing out what you just did in this thread, then I'm taking a guess at your alignment from the information available. It's called scumhunting, Thor, you should try it sometime.

As I said, I don't need to know your playstyle to understand that someone is sabotaging the town. I wouldn't bother to go through your games if you didn't use your meta as an excuse to defend yourself.

[Albert B. Rampage]

flailing is a tell that basically means 'looking desperate and trying to latch onto anything to prove they don't look scummy'

Oh, look what I found. Were you describing yourself from the future?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Welcome to the game, Elyse and F-16! I hope we get along

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thor, do you think ICEninja could be scum?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think you're all newbies, currently.
I feel like I'm the only one who even knows what he's saying.

i frankly think you're scum because you're acting like it's all relevant when you, of all of them, should know better.
So, nah, unless you're saying you're bussing him.

You sound like someone that takes great pride in their town (and scum) play. Please tell me more about why you are the only one who even knows what he's saying.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You're soft floating what it is you're accusing me of and everyone is buying it because they're too lazy or lurking to read, even though everyone and their uncle is claiming they will, and we both know that isn't happening which is why you're getting away with it for some awful reason because we ended up in a Newbie with each other.

I think this is what you thought would happen when you started the bandwagon on Slandaar. Everybody would follow you, nobody would read, it would be nice and tidy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thor, my case on you is made up. The reason I made it up is because I wanted to teach you that if you go against me, this is what will come of it. It's not wise for you to go against me. I'm stronger. I scumhunt better. I get who I want lynched more often than you do. Remember that. Tell your QT buddies if you're scum.

Unvote Thor

I'll revisit this vote when I deem it appropriate. For now, I want to let you do your dance in front of the new players.

Vote Axxle

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert, why Axxle?

Thor wasn't scummy because of anything I said, rather because of his over-the-top reactions, his flailing in all directions, post saturation, and overall, his broken mind not understanding how he could get caught so easily on the first day, him and all the power he thought he had at his disposal.

I don't see actual value in this discussion though unless you're seriously suggesting that scum would never try to mislynch powerful town players.

This is exactly the kind of behavior that made me want to put him back in his place:
subtly letting others know about how "powerful" he is while being completely dismissive of F16.

Albert why did you feel you needed to *teach* Thor a lesson in this game?

If he's town, he needs to be humbled by his better, so he doesn't lead the town to destruction after my demise.

If he's scum, I want him to feel the weight of my boot covering the better part of his face, I want him to smell the dirty undersurface of it, and I want him to understand how quickly and easy it would be for me to crush him on a whim.

His broken mind is not a concern of mine. His vote is where I want to it to be. Thor is nothing but a loud, angry pawn. As long as he's voting for me, he can't harm the integrity of this town by leading it in dangerous directions.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Haha. I voted Axxle because I want the slot lynched today if no content spurts out of it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thor is broken. I want his wagon to cool down a bit while we look for other scummy players. Zakk and Elyse promised content, Garmr already has players still thinking he's scum, so I'm going to focus on lynching Axxle, who I have the least information about in this game, and is therefore a threat.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I want to give everyone who is undecided on my alignment, the chance to interact with me.

Ask me anything.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I want to give everyone who is undecided on my alignment, the chance to interact with me.

Ask me anything.

since your vote is now on a new slot where will you go now?


Also there is a backlog of questions from me about those who supported your case and why you voted a lurker (an almost worthless vote).

When the slot starts posting content, I'll move my vote to somewhere as of yet undetermined.

I voted a lurker because I have limited information on the game and it would help me to cross off known unknowns.

My argument that Thor doesn't care about scumhunting is an opinion. I found facts to support it, sure, but it could go either way depending on how you look at it. It's all WIFOM. It's sad that Slandaar is being ignored. I think Thor is scummy, although I'm not certain what he would flip. If I did go through with my gut suspicions and he ended up flipping town, that would be on me.

I find that the players in this game are fairly whimsical and could go with whatever lynch, as long as it isn't them. So I may end up lynched. Maybe. I claim vanilla townie.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Garmr, you said I was scum and you're not even voting for me. That's dangerously close.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That's ridiculous. I played my role and claimed at L-2. I happen to disagree with people who find my play scummy, I mean, they're wrong, but they don't know that.

I find myself hesitant to push any lynch without a base level of certainty, and it shows through this game.

My best bet is to look at who is genuinely trying to determine whether I'm scum or not (and not the "right lynch", but actually scum) and who is along for the ride.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's important to not be influenced by confirmation bias. Take someone that thinks I'm scum. If I say something they would normally see as coming from town, it will be interpreted as either incredibly clever, thought-out, well-planned and manipulative.

If I say something they can't relate with, it's because I'm of a different alignment.

If I say something they view as "too scummy to be scum", they think I'm playing WIFOM games and really am scum.

There isn't much I can do on my side, except play the game, answer questions, hopefully the actual townies sidestep confirmation bias, and I can determine who is genuine and who isn't.

So are you saying now that there is a case for thor being scum?

Also can we get an opinion on the two people that voted thor based on your case?

Of course there is a case. A case is just opinion. I said "I made it up" to provoke some reactions. I'm not ready to throw him out on the street just based on that. He's not even my ideal lynch. Someone who didn't post content is more dangerous than Thor at this juncture.

@Thor Yes, I'm 70% sure the claim will save me. With 8 days to deadline, if people change their minds, it's plenty of time to lynch somebody else.

[Albert B. Rampage]

By "made up", I mean exagerrate my confidence on him being scum. Everything I said still stands. Anyone that it may have influenced is well justified in thinking so. But I do think most players here act more on emotion and gut reads than logic, so it's not so much as anything I said, but the wind blowing one way rather than another and they are OK with taking the path of least resistance.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Also the fact his saying why arn't you voting me over Zakk is pretty stupid in his self.

I didn't ask you why you aren't voting for me over Zakk. I said that you calling me scum so directly, and not having your vote on me, implies I'm soon to be L-1.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's better for me to claim early, before people use time as an excuse. That it's too late to run up somebody else.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Lurkers are dangerous. Even if they are town, they end up being replaced by players who are neither invested nor interested in reading the game, and they can make a capital mistake in LYLO. Typically, lurkers will not be NK'd. Scum are interested in framing town and will go after players with opinions. Or they will go for players who are either suspecting them or on the verge of suspecting them.

[Albert B. Rampage]

And how certain are you that I am scum, SB?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't lie about my role as town, toolenduso. I said it in my first post.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't want to commit to a list with so many slots with little to no content.

I can come up with a better mental picture of the game once everyone is posting.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have no recollection of Thor before this game. Seriously. You just made that "you brought baggage with Thor into this game" bit.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have no recollection of Thor before this game. Seriously. You just made that "you brought baggage with Thor into this game" bit.

That is pretty blatantly not what he was saying.

Then you haven't been reading.

If you are town you have been counter productive, a long with slandaar you have brought in some serious baggage with thor which has poisoned this game so far and I wouldnt be surprised if its revealed at the end that its the reason we've had players *requesting* replacements, not just dropping out, but actually saying *No I want out*

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ABR - why do you think your case on me got as far as it did for what it was if I am scum?
Also, what pro-town end effect did you get out of it to make the lie worthwhile?

1) I already answered this at the beginning of the last page.

2) You're leading the town less and more people are posting content.

[Albert B. Rampage]

My goal is not to make people suspicious of Thor. They need to make up their own minds about Thor.

As for the *baggage* yes, it is an error in that comment. You did claim not to remember thor prior to this game.

Exactly.

He is saying that you brought baggage into the game.
Read it as 'increased drama'
And not 'brought drama from a point in the past'

This post quoted above shows a complete misunderstanding, and lack of reading of this game.

Unvote, vote Thor

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

My goal is not to make people suspicious of Thor. They need to make up their own minds about Thor.

As for the *baggage* yes, it is an error in that comment. You did claim not to remember thor prior to this game.

Exactly.

He is saying that you brought baggage into the game.
Read it as 'increased drama'
And not 'brought drama from a point in the past'

This post quoted above shows a complete misunderstanding, and lack of reading of this game.

Unvote, vote Thor

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think the entire Thor wagon was town-driven.

Too early for me to say anything else with certainty.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If there was someone voting for Thor that was scum, however, it would be Slandaar.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Elyse and Thor

Assume I'm town. Who is scummier between IceNinja and Sir Bastion?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why is that? One sheeped your admitted lie.

If I present your behaviors in a way that makes you look scummy, that isn't seen as a lie by your average player. It's seen as posting content. And calling another player scum despite imperfect information, is a widely accepted practice.

You're begging the question. You're reaching. You're acting scummy now.

Why?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Personal problem with me? Or you are completely lost in this game?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't even understand how this constitutes a defense or response.

Well, yeah, I lied, but it was *content* so it was okay. Also, town doesn't *know* that their case is perfect, so it's totally legit that I lied to advance a case because, hey, who knows, maybe my lies would be real.

I am amazed you expect anyone to buy this.

What are you talking about? Our job is to look at facts and create theories about them. We have to appear confident in our theories to draw out reactions. You insist on calling it

lying

. Are you doing this to make me look bad to the others? It's a cheap trick.

Your argument of you doing your "fake case" to break Thor's hold on the game is A) contradictory and B) nonsensical.

Think long and hard about this. I don't make sense to you, so that makes me confirmed scum? Only confirmed scum would not make sense? Or are you simply failing to understand how I play and what I post because we are two different people?

You're saying that I would start the day with posting little to no content, absorbing the game, then turn against the one person in the game that was defending me, Thor.

Yes, because Thor also contradicted himself, much worse than anything else in this game, here:

His case was...not complicated.
I presume he went after me, as I've already said, because I'd already indicated distrust of him and was the only other experienced voice in the game.

Thor was the only one to actually defend me at the beginning of the game:

I actually think I agree with ABR there.

Let's lynch Slandaar now.

From my point of view, he was the friendliest and the one that defended me the most. It makes no sense for me to go after him as scum. It would be extremely non-strategic of me.

Elyse, work with me here. Don't throw away the lynch because you don't trust me. Re-evaluate. If you're town, you're going to have a harder time in this game with a Day 1 lynch on me with no counterwagon whatsoever, just like IceNinja says. You won't get much information. I'm gong to flip vanilla townie.

You can proceed to wrongly blame me as Sir Bastion, saying I made "mistakes". No, I made no mistakes. I'm uncertain about who is scum. That's not a mistake, it's a real challenge. I can't say who is scum for certain, but out of everyone, Thor is playing the most black and white, and therefore I think he's the scum. He started as a gut read, back when I thought he was defending me with meta. I chose that time to go against him. I derailed the wagon on him because of my own doubts. Not because "I was going to get caught". If I stayed on Thor, it would be in the same shoes as Slandaar right now, exchanging wall posts with Thor, each arguing our points without ever agreeing. There was a chance he was going to get lynched as well, which I wasn't prepared to take responsibility for. The reason why I asked Slandaar if he was certain about Thor, that he would not unvote once Thor gained a bigger bandwagon, was because I myself had doubts about it, and Thor plays scum well enough to create doubts in my mind.

It's your decision to lynch me, it's your responsbility to think about all the pieces in this game, beyond contradictions, beyond the mind games we play, beyond changing our tactics midway through something. I haven't done anything crazy scummy, Thor is pushing way too hard on me instead of scumhunting, I made a very direct claim, and it's time to move on. I will unequivocally represent a real and dangerous threat to scum, if left alive. If they don't lynch me now, it will be hard for them to do so later. Don't let them have this lynch. And if you do, don't you dare come blaming me later. This is on you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let's even look at it from a pragmatic point of view, assuming you're not me.

You lynch me, and say I turn up scum.

Who do you lynch then? Slandaar? Thor defends me and attacks Slandaar, so I chainsaw defend my partner in the early game? Instead of dividing ourselves to hedge our bets, with Thor that trusts me, and Slandaar who Thor distrusts. And in this situation, who do think would be the sacrifice? Me? And you think that I'll just announce to my partner we are going to take this wagon to the end, just to then completely derail the bandwagon? To seperate myself from Slandaar? No, it's too late to seperate myself from Slandaar. None of this is feasible. So why does Thor believes this? He's forgotten or misunderstood several important facts in this game. He doesn't read the thread a second time or bring up new analysis on previous patterns. He relies on simple messages like "abr lied". And he thinks thay I'm scum and Slandaar is scum. Two people who are absolutely committed to seeing him hang. As soon as he saw us commit, he decided to try to lynch us back.

Back to me being scum.

Who are my partners? Someone who is wishy washy about my wagon, like IceNinja? Admittedly, IceNinja was saying that Thor was scummy without voting for him, maybe waiting for an opportunity to join the wagon later. But why would he resist bussing me at this stage? I already claimed VT. People are suspicious of me. Early wagon credit for IceNinja if he stays on my wagon.

Hell, even Thor could be my partner. His tactics for attacking me are extremely transparent. He's not making any effort in this game or thinking twice about lynching me. Does he really think that I would claim VT at L-2 as scum? For what? If you think I have a big ego, it must follow that you think that in my mind, I would have a massive impact on my team and that my team would be doomed without me. If that team is scum, it means that I would make a PR claim to stay alive. Not sacrifice myself. Not let my buddies bus me easily for town cred. Not questioning everyone and resisting so hard. That's what a team player does, right? Do I look like a team player to you? No, as scum, I feel like I'm even more responsible than my partners, because of my experience and my strategic way of doing things. I'd claim a PR and carry my team as far as I could until I was disproven. Or I'd at least take down a PR with me with a claim. But I claimed early, and VT.

Consider what happens if we lynch Thor and he's the scum. We instantly confirm several players as town, and this game will be

easy

.

I overstated my confidence to the town that Thor is guilty earlier. Yeah, so what?

Look man, I'm town. It doesn't get any plainer than this.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thor is better than that he is not town.

Yes, exactly. Elyse, IceNinja, Garmr, the others, they have got to turn around and see that this isn't town Thor. He doesn't care. He's not thinking twice. He's been either on Slandaar or me the entire game. It's not his style to OMGUS. He didn't even take it personally when I pushed him around. All he's doing, is acting strategic. So if it's not OMGUS, why is he trying so hard to lynch me and Slandaar? Because he needs to get rid of us. Look at his posts. It doesn't make sense for him to think what he does. He presents his thoughts to us in a very linear way that benefits his long-term survival, that's it, that's all.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Oh and Thor has only recently changed to Albert is scum, not Slandaar, because it's starting to get unbelievable and he has to try and squeeze me out completely and focus on my lynch. Rest assured that after I flip town, he will go back and say Slandaar was in fact the scum and not me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nope. You're too bad. You are way, way too bad to be town. Oversimplification. Flat. Detached. You're scummy as all hell.

[Albert B. Rampage]

We need Skelda and havingfitz to look at how bad you're playing right now and lynch you straight away no questions asked. I haven't seen anyone tunnel on obvtown like this in forever.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You can proceed to wrongly blame me as Sir Bastion, saying I made "mistakes". No, I made no mistakes. I'm uncertain about who is scum.

Well, other than lying and being caught doing it.

Exactly. No mistakes. And when I flip town, it will mean there was no lie, and thus, no reason for Sir Bastion, Elyse, anyone who is town voting me, to blame me for their own ineptitude at seeing the truth. No covering under "he made mistakes so deserved to be lynched, town or scum", nope. Your fault, guys. I made no mistakes, you made up your own minds incorrectly and are unable to read the game for what it is. That's the bottom line for ya.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If I die, I'll follow this game with much anticipation and cheer for the town. Thor, if you're town, shame on you sir, you've been acting quite scummy all day and ruined town's chances.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Overstating confidence in something + representing facts a certain way = lying? Semantics. But you're using it as a crutch because you can't be bothered to really scumhunt.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Alright, Thor, just let the others post, will you? You don't have to respond to every single post, yes?

This is why I wanted to lynch you so much, you, me, Slandaar are a lot more active than anyone else and it hurts the readthrough to post so much.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Too much activity from only 3 players is bad, no activity from any one player is bad.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If you guys don't want to lynch Thor, we can compromise on Garmr. I think he's scum too.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It isn't contradicting. My play expresses doubt. It expresses conflicting thoughts. Theories that prevail over each other. Thor's play is black and white. Tunnel tunnel tunnel. Bad arguments. No forward thinking. No past analysis. Ignoring and misrepresenting his way throughout the day.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let's say I'm bussing my scumbuddy Thor. Do I run him up, destroy the bandwagon by admitting I'm not sure about my case, and vote a lurker? Or do I tunnel on him until either him or I are lynched? It's the latter.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Are you seriously getting a kick out of all arguing against me? Do you feel strong? It's clear as day that I'm town.

I play scum without any passion at all when I'm scum. Go to MD and look at my playstyle as scum. I broke it down for you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Everything is WIFOM, read Thor's wiki.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32183

Open your eyes. I play scum in an extremely straightforward way, every time. I can't push a lynch on Thor and then stop midway because I'm doubting myself and don't want to mislynch him, then be blamed for it the next day. That's two mislynches. As scum, I can argue with him all day. Right now, his ammo consists of me pulling away from pushing his lynch. It's ridiculous. He calls me a liar because I said he was scum, then I wasn't sure, that's his entire case on me. It's stupid. Vote for him, not for me. And if you think we shouldn't lynch him because he's a good player or whatever, then lynch Garmr, he's also scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

He also has very weak counterpoints to the argument I brought up, that I attacked him when he was defending me based on the meta I posted from the game I played with him and Slandaar. There's no reason for me to attack Thor, as he's defending me, as Thor is attacking Slandaar. Look at the timing. You've been completely duped. Open your eyes wide and let the truth of my words guide you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why do you not find Thor suspicious?

[Albert B. Rampage]

If we use your definition of a lie, you've made bigger and more lies than I have.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That are completely provable. You say X when Y happened. It's a complete lie and misrep.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have no recollection of Thor before this game. While I was looking iceninja, who claimed not to have played a full game with me, which I disproved, I noticed Thor was also in that game as scum. During the course of this game, I then read some of his games to get a feel for his meta.

[Albert B. Rampage]

One thing that keeps bugging me is that you are now saying you dismantled the wagon on Thor because you had doubts. Before, you said it was to show Thor that you could run him up and that he should be scared of you. Which is it?

Which one do you believe it is?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I invite you to read this:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... g_is_WIFOM

All the accusations leveled against me are WIFOM. I will defend myself with WIFOM. But can't you see the energy, the passion, the clarity of purpose bleeding through my writing? My favorite role is pro-town. This is what gets me off. I love to be in this position. I don't have to calculate or stick to a strategy, I can just be...see that I'm town and unvote. There's time to vote for other players if you don't want to vote for Thor.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Can you just unvote just for right now?

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's my request.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Town is much more liberal with their votes than that.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not liking Elyse right now. Town would unvote. It's silly to try to keep a vote on after a claim, while still waiting for replacements to catch up. It's like secretly wishing for a quicklynch or something. Completely closed-minded to being wrong. It's scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote Thor, vote Elyse

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hey don't take it personal. We're about to start another normal together lol

[Albert B. Rampage]

Meh.

Unvote Elyse, vote Thor

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm afraid you seem confused. Thor is scum.

His bandwagon was town-driven. Garmr is also scum. Don't lynch Zakk, he's town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah...pretty much nothing in post 701 makes any sense.

I'm eagerly awaiting some new blood. I feel like I've been unable to get new reads on players simply because new discussion stopped happening 12 pages ago.

Because the majority of players are tunneling on me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sir Bastion.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Can we still turn the titanic from the icebergs or what?

[Albert B. Rampage]

OK so here's the situation.

Albert B. Rampage (7) Thor665, toolenduso, Sir Bastion, ICEninja, Elyse, Garmr, F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Lynched, dead, gone, vanilla townie flip.

You lost your best town player, but it's only the first mislynch. There are no outted PRs yet, so scum will be shooting in the dark. If we have investigative roles, they should try to remain hidden. If there's a doctor, they should protect someone who didn't vote for me. The more people on my bandwagon die, the more it will reveal about who the scum are.

My read on Zakk is town. If the scum don't kill him, don't make the mistake of voting for him. I agree Garmr is suspicious, but Thor needs rope first. Sir Bastion. These people need to die before the end of the game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If there's a vig in this game, and hopefully there is, your target is, you guessed it, Thor. You have my blessing. If not, get some good discussion from the replacements that promised catch-up and never did, and then lynch Thor. Don't bother with competing wagons, you don't need them.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Of course I'm town. Thor needs vig or lynch tomorrow. Do not, for the love of all that is holy, try to investigate him. There is too much evidence against him, just give him the rope and save your powers for someone more deserving.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If you're a roleblocker, feel free to block Thor. IF you're a JK, don't target Thor. The key here, is for the vig to hit Thor, you see?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm fearful for the outcome of this game for town. The majority of players tunneled on me the entire game, and that will hurt townies during the re-read. It's not for nothing that Slandaar, I and less vocal players have been calling Thor scum this entire time. Don't waste your time trying to call the entire scum team until he's dead.

K? Thor. Thor is scum. Remember it.

See you on the other side!

[Albert B. Rampage]

PS: Scum, no hard feelings. I'm still your bro.

[Albert B. Rampage]

There is too much evidence against him

Like what pray tell? You never have explained it. Maybe you should, what with me being scum and you being the only sane man in the town.

*cough Slandaar*

[Albert B. Rampage]

Try to first improve first, tool. We can talk after you have a few more games under your belt. Keep your chin up, little fella.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Honestly, it's like you're too new to even understand the enormity in the gap between us. You couldn't capture the amount of detail that goes through my planning, point of views or posts, even if you pretended to like me and tried. If you're scum, congrats on the mislynch. If you're town, you have to accept your mistakes and move on. I already told you Thor is scum. If you refuse to accept this, I believe there are others who will take the lead.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I was right about all 3. Elyse, Garmr, Sir Bastion and Thor. Those were my scum reads.

Tool single-handedly gave this game to scum. Congratulations scum, you had a good town errand boy to do your bidding. And no, tool, don't make any excuses about how you were going to vote for Elyse after lynching Garmr. I was right, you were wrong, live with it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It was a good game. I'd play again with any one of you. Tool is a young up and commer, and I have no doubt he will get a bit better over time. He didn't deserve to take all the blame on his own.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hahah THOR!!!! I can't wait to see you again XD

Come join the next mini normal guys! Alduskel, I believe.