Mini 1482: Castle - A Mafia Murder So Vile (GAME OVER)

[waynegg]

I'm not rushing into that. We also need to discuss SweetP

***Sweet Pertayter (Mara+Om)*** ~ Cop "Not Scum" (possible 3rd party)

Spoiler:

29 way too early to be calling meta, linked to Bert
34 ~ buddying, but who?
55 early scum reads on players who are proven
threats when town, regardless of the role they receive; a little
scummy
232 is that ITT coaching of Bert? Perhaps they are a team.
270 feigned ire; they had only just calmly explained to Wisdom in
269 they hadn't gotten together to firm their reads, then here in the
very next post they go off on Mollie? Maybe 34~ 44 was more
like scum theater, or Bert is town. Either way, this slot just played
leapfrog over Bert.
279 QF so much T
345 that sure was awkwardly easy after your emphatic vote on
my slot...

They have a notable absence at the end of D1 as deadline draws near. Normally, I see either as a voice of reason at this point and herd all the cats together to come to a consensus and push a well reasoned lynch through. This isn't happening as of 15 hours to lynch which is extremely off. They come back in at the last possible moment to muddy the waters a bit more, while trying to appear to be helpful.

941 umm...that's how the game moves forward; aka pushing reads

What's saving this slot from scum is only the fact they don't fit with my team scum reads with Mantis. That said, of Mantis flips town momara is scum, Scum, SCUM!

1931 well that clears things up a bit...shelving it for
now

Tayter has had some scum and some town moments, with town winning out at a 3:1 margin. They were untouchable town in fact before Nat "cleared" them. Therein lies the problem though. "Not Scum" isn't the same as "Innocent". It's just not scum. Usually this would imply third party, but the SK has already been dealt with and this is a smallish game. I'm not assigning this to town

without one HELL of a good reason

. I can see them as being Neighborized if Wisdom and Mantis flip scum with a Neighborizer between them because that could be indicative of the Not Scum results since they would be in limbo at night and not scum until day start

[waynegg]

WHO KILLED MY WISDOM

I will seek revenge

I will win it for you, Wisdom!!!!

Scum gloating right there

[waynegg]

And Desparado isn't exactly clear either

Desperado ~ Claimed Kevin Ryan

Spoiler:

92 Great town hunting and very town motivated
149 blatant blind sheep
160 denies sheeping...

His play slowly degrades from here to the point in 558 where he's flat~out refusing to vote one of his scum reads ~ Mantis who coincidentally also reads him scum and won't vote ~ stating there's not enough support though in truth there probably was. Derailing lynches at deadline is bad joo-joo ad it seemed to be a theme with my perception of team scum this game

1129oh...look who isn't touching this whole Wisdom end of the day
thing like its full of plague...even though he posted just after it had
tapered off and was the major topic that part of the day. That's like
driving from Houston to Dallas by way of San Antonio so you can
bypass Huntsville. Not natural by any shape, form, or fashion.
2119 just a little more to show this connection. Along with the
distancing which has been prevalent (cross voting but never really
pushing anything like they have on others) they've also had these
little moments like this one where they work together for a moment,
only to comfortably distance again in the near future. Let's see how
long that takes this time.
2123 not long...

Desp. Man, you started off town and soon became untouchable. If it weren't for the rest of your team calling attention to themselves enough for me to read their ISOs separate and together three times a piece, I wouldn't have noticed the lack of significant interaction between the other two and you. Sure, you guys have cross voted. Wisdom even did a weak push on you that lasted a couple of pages (while he was pushing harder on Nat) and you on him, but the trajectory and follow through is void. You're scum this game, but I sure enjoy playing with you!

The only way I can't see you being a part of team scum is if Wisdom and Mantis flip scum neighbors. Then you'd be clear, clear, clear!

All scum need to get to MyLo is probably one mislynch and one hasn't been hit yet. That's all the motivation scum need to rush tie lynch today. So, even though I have a scum read on Mantis, this needs to be worked out well before we QL and screw ourselves.

[waynegg]

When Cop hits townie, they get an INNOCENT result. Nati got a NOT SCUM result. That's a world of difference and all that really matters in the Pertayter spoiler. Thanks for zeroing in on something that's completely moot now that Wisdom flipped town though Desp. Scum wouldn't do something like that, now would they?

[waynegg]

Waynegg ur predecessor thought I was with Wisdom

Now u think Im with Mara

They r my friends and r townreads of mine

Get real, I buddy all the time

Where the hell do you get that from? These are my thoughts on you...

Bert ~ No Claim as of Now

Spoiler:

34 ~ 44 buddying, but who? Setting up excuses for stuff.
Possible distancing vote as well
90 perhaps the first one was rhetorical. The second two definitely
weren't as they go to your reasoning to have singled him out. This
must be your scum tell and your reasoning for dodging questions.
And while you're misusing English terms, this is a sentence fragment,
not a reason "The bottom line is - I find how SHE, INDIVIDUALLY,
has approached this game." Care to complete that thought now?
You were too anxious to get to discrediting Desperado to finish your
fluff.. Enter the slip, scum
91 is just a longer sentence fragment...
164 gives excuse to flop his Mollie read at the drop of a hat
169 ~170 too much cogdis...with himself
183 "Why do you think so. Enlighten me" evidence of who's buddying
196 drops town read on Mollie he never had; he had her null
Appeal to fear
228setting you up for mislynch? more like hard onto your scumbutt.

Following this point in the game, Bert finally evened out. In fact, his town shown through brightly.

1358 now put together exactly how and with whom Mantis is effing
with you

Bert, Bert, Bert. You're listening to the wrong guys here bud. I've seen some of your games and seen you pull some good stuff. You seem to be floundering to find your footing in this one though. It's like when you find solid ground, the current comes in and washes it right out from under you. I find that when that happens, I'm usually too close to the trees to see the forest. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture and I'm sure you'll see things more clearly.

And Mollie isn't town or would have come up innocent. You were also scum reading Desp and now you want to follow him... Think.

[waynegg]

Well, I'm not sure desp would do this as scum. And if desp is telling the truth, Nati-town seems unlikely.

One mislynch gets us to Mylo with no flipped scum. Are you obfuscating stupidity or just actually this dense? That's all the motivation needed for scum to do this and he had plenty of suspicion on him near the end of D2.

Oh, and FG

FakeGod ~ Claimed VT Jordan Shaw

Spoiler:

122 I like this post, but I could see it coming as easily from scum as
from town
509 the second time I see anything worth commenting on in this
slot; the rest was all pointy fingers and I don't give that any credit by
itself. town for now though

The rest of TNE's posts have been very noncommittal, painting peeps as scum, or prod dodging. Maybe things will clear a little with Fake God. Right now, if I had to choose, this slot would be scum, but only just. Null feels better unitl I get to FG.

1848 not following up on what he saw that made him ask this
question makes his slot suspect right now.
1873 attacking the attack instead of the accusation

I'm not so strong on FakeGod. He's been playing what I've seen of his town game, but I only have one game with him. He does seem to be floating on others' reads a bit and I can see how he could work into team scum if one of my other reads fails. Last choice for scum as of now since that would require Wisdom to be town, but still getting a bit of a scummy vibe.

So forgive if I'm not going to just take your word for it.

[waynegg]

Well, I'm not sure desp would do this as scum. And if desp is telling the truth, Nati-town seems unlikely.

sucks, because i know he's lying 100%. which makes Nat's town to me.... unless they're pulling some gambit.

which could make sense. desp's scum partners will know that he's going to be lynched tomorrow after i flip. so they might distance from him today, so that they're not associated with his plan.

serra, does that above sentence make sense?

That doesn't work. To do that gambit it would require Desp to keep a town read on Nat, not throw poop on him.

[waynegg]

Well, if mantis flips town, we lynch desp and know that we can trust nati. I seriously don't see how that would be a good scum tactic though.

Because it would take the game to MyLo before the first scum ever flipped. The statistical chance of a town win at that point is almost zero.

[waynegg]

Killing Potato doesn't confirm shit.

No, we kill mantis today.

Who said we should kill SP? They do have some explaining to do though, because they aren't cleared town.

[waynegg]

wayne, if Desp is scum, he just killed himself with that claim.

Why would he do that? Especially since according to you, he wasn't in really in danger of getting lynched for d1 or d2.

Mantis lynch is the correct lynch for today.

I've already answered this twice. This is the last time and I'll make it big and bold so you can't miss it this time.

BECAUSE IT WOULD TAKE THE GAME TO MYLO WITH NO FLIPPED SCUM. FROM THERE IT'S STATISTICALLY HIGHLY IMPROBABLE FOR TOWN TO WIN. THE PROPER QUESTION IS WHY WOULDN'T HE. IT HAS ALL THE SCUMOTIVATION IN THE WORLD TO DO SO.

VOTE: Desparado

If everyone is hellbent on ending this day after just 2 hours or so of conversation, this is the right vote

[waynegg]

My big deal with Desp's tracker claim is this

"The Tracker is an informative role that can target a player at Night and learn who, if anybody, that player targeted the same night (but not the action the player performed).
Trackers have been seen as each alignment.
This version of Tracker, and only this version of Tracker, is considered Normal on mafiascum.net."

He wouldn't know what night action Mantis took, only who he hypothetically targeted. Wisdom was such a turd, I'm sure he would have had all kinds of targeting N2. The way Desp came in with the go!go!go! Kind of tone reeks of scum. That's undeniable.

[waynegg]

wayne, if Desp is scum, he just killed himself with that claim.

Why would he do that? Especially since according to you, he wasn't in really in danger of getting lynched for d1 or d2.

Mantis lynch is the correct lynch for today.

I've already answered this twice. This is the last time and I'll make it big and bold so you can't miss it this time.

BECAUSE IT WOULD TAKE THE GAME TO MYLO WITH NO FLIPPED SCUM. FROM THERE IT'S STATISTICALLY HIGHLY IMPROBABLE FOR TOWN TO WIN. THE PROPER QUESTION IS WHY WOULDN'T HE. IT HAS ALL THE SCUMOTIVATION IN THE WORLD TO DO SO.

If mantis flips town, then desp gets lynched tomorrow and flip scum.

Then, town would be in MyLo with a flipped scum.

Reply?

Perpetual mylo with 2 more (most likely in my mind) to flip isn't a favorable condition for town to win. That gives scum 2 chances for a blind town to mislynch and lose. I guarantee they would take out the town eyes next, Nati if you will.

And Desp...no, I see no town motivation to anything you've done this game including the Tracker deal.

[waynegg]

Then stop sounding so fake, mantis! :/

@wayne: mantis claimed not to have a night-action. Stop being stupid.

That was a hypothetical. I even said hypothetical. That's to illustrate the Desp would have no clue what his target did, just who he targeted. Now don't twist my words or I might think you're trying to trick me.

[waynegg]

Waynegg, mantis claimed neighbor though

Do neighbors get extra abilities

Usually, no. They just get to talk to each other at night

[waynegg]

My big deal with Desp's tracker claim is this

"The Tracker is an informative role that can target a player at Night and learn who, if anybody, that player targeted the same night (but not the action the player performed).
Trackers have been seen as each alignment.
This version of Tracker, and only this version of Tracker, is considered Normal on mafiascum.net."

He wouldn't know what night action Mantis took, only who he hypothetically targeted. Wisdom was such a turd, I'm sure he would have had all kinds of targeting N2. The way Desp came in with the go!go!go! Kind of tone reeks of scum. That's undeniable.

Impossible. Mantis had already claimed neighbor.

Desp knew that mantis cannot possibly visit anyone if Mantis was telling the truth about his role.

Therefore, Desp knew that he had a guilty coming into d3.

Reply?

There's nothing which precludes neighbor from having an addition role other than the fact that Mala told me this is a normal game. By your own statement, Mantis couldn't target anybody for anything and Wisdom did flip neighbor, ergo Mantis is also neighbor. Mantis could be scum, yes but if he's neighbor he probably doesn't get to input the kill. That would most likely be some other team scum member.

[waynegg]

You make very little sense, egg.

That scum claim. I make perfect sense.

Poll to game: am I making sense?

[waynegg]

Wait, how are we getting setup info out of Mala?

I simply asked her if this was bastard or normal.

[waynegg]

Good point Desp. That really is a good point. Still see you as scum, but yes neighbor is passive.

[waynegg]

IF u didn't know already, letting y'all talk it out tho

<3

I don't want the day to end befor mom area get in and explain the not scum result.

[waynegg]

IF u didn't know already, letting y'all talk it out tho

<3

I don't want the day to end before momara get in and explain the not scum result.

Stupid auto speller!

[waynegg]

VOTE: Mantis

I'm pretty sure this is the right lynch for today for scum

FTFY

[waynegg]

Mara is my remaining person I know best and my townread

She is loved <3 and I gonna sheep her hahahahaha

HAHAHA

Why would you have her strong town enough to sheep at this point. Do you think Nat isn't a town Cop? Just need your POV.

[waynegg]

Nati is scum, probably mafia cop, seeing that there was a SK.

Sup, why would I claim mafia/not mafia results if I was a scum cop looking for an SK?

Lemme guess: as a mafia cop, you probably get "town" or "not town" for your results, and you said "not mafia" on potato for towncred.

The point is, he would have no motivation to claim Cop at all. It would be strategically better for a scum cop to keep it to himself D2.

[waynegg]

I believe Nat <3

Said that oodles of times lately, gut read on Mara is town

Have most experience with Mara, she's been in lots or my games, I've even been scum with her before

Then let's hear out her explanation for the "NOT SCUM" result which is usually indicative of third party, yes?

[waynegg]

Waynegg u lie

Why u lie to us????

Lol. Where did I lie?

[waynegg]

I believe Nat <3

Said that oodles of times lately, gut read on Mara is town

Have most experience with Mara, she's been in lots or my games, I've even been scum with her before

Then let's hear out her explanation for the "NOT SCUM" result which is usually indicative of third party, yes?

I don't know where you're going with this, bro.

I get results of either mafia or not mafia. We know there was an SK in the game. By default, it's probably just in place to make the SK have investigation immunity.

Are you sure? Every time I've asked any mod what results a cop get they always say innocent, not scum, and guilty. Have you checked for clarification?

[waynegg]

Why would a cop of either alignment want to out themselves day two with just an inno?

FTC but good point.

[waynegg]

So why did you?

[waynegg]

U said games normal??????

Yep. How's that a lie?

[waynegg]

FG vaguely alluded to you being a Cop, but he never actually outed you. You did that yourself. Plenty of players would have missed exactly what FG was saying without this

Sup, so FakeGod, if not scum is retarded.

I'm just going to claim now, ugh. Good play, scum.

He's right, I'm a cop with a 'not mafia' on potato. I chose him last night because I had my doubts about him and was expecting to lynch wisdom today. If you don't believe me, go back and read my iso, I've literally been crumbing it since minute one.

If FakeGod is town, he doesnt know how to play with power roles.

I would lynch desperado prob. I was planning to investigate him tonight, but OH WELL.

[waynegg]

Mala just said the game isn't normal, it's just not bastard!!!

Ughhhh

Where

For the record it was stated that this was not a bastard game and it has been reviewed for balance.

I do not mod bastard games.

And fair enough Nat. That threw me off though.

[waynegg]

FG vaguely alluded to you being a Cop, but he never actually outed you. You did that yourself. Plenty of players would have missed exactly what FG was saying without this

He hardlly alluded to it, he outright stated I was softclaiming cop. At which place, I found it better that i just confirm the statement and hope a doc(or Bodyguard...) could protect me.

Ah. 1911. Skimmed over that.

[waynegg]

For the record it was stated that this was not a bastard game and it has been reviewed for balance.

I do not mod bastard games.

Not bastard =/= normal

ffs

But it doesn't not not equal normal either. Based on the question I asked her and the answer I received I was left with the impression the game is normal. And based on the wiki

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

If it ain't bastard, it's normal.

[waynegg]

And I don't think the normal v bastard v whatever conversation is going to help find scum, so can we move on?

Pedit theme =/= not normal. But yeah, I guess you could take that viewpoint.

[waynegg]

I agree that this game is likely to not have Tarhalindur/reckoner/Vi style roles.

I also agree that it likely may not adhere to the normal game rules.

Maybe this will help. I concede the point. Can we get back to finding scum now?

[waynegg]

Or we could just lynch scum in Desparado and find more scum tomorrow. He would have already called me scum for all the doubt I threw on him if he wasn't scum.

[waynegg]

Lynching mantis is the best lynch for town today, hands down. It gives so much information to the town.

Mantis flips scum = Desp is town, and Nati is almost conf scum.

Mantis flips town = Desp is scum, and Nati + Potato is almost conf town.

Wayne, I'm not saying you should believe Desp.

I'm just saying that lynching Mantis will give us the most information.

Fallacy. Any scum lynch gives equal information because connections can be drawn from the lynch. I also find it less likely for Mantis to be scum than Desparado. Not that I don't see Mantis as scum, because I can see that. The difference is that I

do

see scum in Desp.

[waynegg]

Wayne, trust me on this one.

If mantis does not flip scum, I give you my word that I'll lynch Desp tomorrow.

That's an extremely easy statement for anyone of any alignment to give given how Desp started today. Fail.

Mantis has posted a crap ton more than Desp. I'll give you that but quantity does not equal quality. Desparado has more relational connections than Mantis. Mantis is really only strongly connected to Wisdom, who despite looking scummy as all get outs flipped town. He flipping town makes me strongly suspect you're scum with Desp, so why should I give any credence to what you say?

[waynegg]

Fallacy. Any scum lynch gives equal information because connections can be drawn from the lynch. I also find it less likely for Mantis to be scum than Desparado. Not that I don't see Mantis as scum, because I can see that. The difference is that I

do

see scum in Desp.

But you're looking at it from a biased point of view.

You're assuming that Desp will flip scum.

Spending the last 54 hours (I slept less than nine of those) reading this game and drawing connections with yarn and pictures on my wall hardly makes me biased. I went into this with a completely open mind and had 2/3 of my connections drawn before I ever received my role pm. That's as unbiased as you can get.

[waynegg]

I agree on Serra based on his play today, Penguin not so much. Good point on FG though, so I'll have to rethink that one.

[waynegg]

Because he was already under massive amounts of scrutiny. Desp would be the obvious best choice from scum perspective to throw himself on the spike.

[waynegg]

Wayne, you said Desp was "untouchable". Can you explain this?

Being under a lot of scrutiny doesn't really sound "untouchable" to me.

In my Desp analysis? That's a full trajectory of. Y read on him. At one point he was an untouchable townread for me. As the game progressed, that changed.

[waynegg]

* of my

[waynegg]

@ FG

The only thing I'd believe then is that I'll have several more sleepless nights reworking connections in this game.

[waynegg]

Or we could just lynch scum in Desparado and find more scum tomorrow. He would have already called me scum for all the doubt I threw on him if he wasn't scum.

Nope, you replaced mollie, who was town town town town town. You also make 0 sense as a Mantis/Nat partner. This is really weak reasoning.

Yes that would put you in a tight spot to flip that read, but since most people call me a VI since they can't follow my logic you could have always used the replace in of a "weaker" player player and that Mollie was too good for you to read but that some people were onto her at the end of D2 standby. Too bad that's lost to you now, but you coulda. You didn't though, ergo you're scum.

[waynegg]

Or we could just lynch scum in Desparado and find more scum tomorrow. He would have already called me scum for all the doubt I threw on him if he wasn't scum.

Nope, you replaced mollie, who was town town town town town. You also make 0 sense as a Mantis/Nat partner. This is really weak reasoning.

Yes that would put you in a tight spot to flip that read, but since most people call me a VI since they can't follow my logic you could have always used the replace in of a "weaker" player player and that Mollie was too good for you to read but that some people were onto her at the end of D2 standby. Too bad that's lost to you now, but you coulda. You didn't though, ergo you're scum.

Are you seriously suggesting there's only one thing that I would have done as town, and I didn't do it so I'm scum?

Yep

[waynegg]

Because you as town with people following your word on your tracker result with all of a sudden a lone detractor other than the subject of your attention should logically only be viewed as scum. If you were town. You faltered. By not immediately casting that doubt back on me you showed a non town motivation because you know I'm town and were lost for words.

Player pole: you're a town investigative role with a guilty of some sort and have support growing rapidly based on that result to start the day. All of a sudden another player whose town status was slipping at the end of the previous day comes in and derails that train. What's your immediate reaction?

[waynegg]

At the same time, I'll point out that this could have been an excellent opportunity for scum to bus for cred. Doing that now when it probably takes only 2 ML for a scum win (especially since no scum has flipped yet) would all but synch a scum victory. That's the main reason I still suspect Mantis. The funny thing is, this locks Mantis in on his stance of Desp being scum because he's town so if he waffles on that it'll reveal the whole play.:Lol:

pedit no, but I did see the opportunity you could have capitalized on

[waynegg]

^ on Desp v Mantis

[waynegg]

I also read you in context Desp, not just your ISO. And I also ISO'd you Mantis and Wisdom together which I thought was the most likely scum team and the joint ISO read made that an even higher probability, though Serra or FG could replace Wisdom should Wisdom flip town. Which he did.

[waynegg]

Because I'm less certain he's scum than you? How does that make sense? At all? Mantis has his own reasons to caress the rope that he can't wriggle out of.

[waynegg]

#1 you didn't even say that

Oh, but I did...

Fallacy. Any scum lynch gives equal information because connections can be drawn from the lynch. I also find it less likely for Mantis to be scum than Desparado. Not that I don't see Mantis as scum, because I can see that. The difference is that I

do

see scum in Desp.

[waynegg]

Nope. Just one. And it doesn't change that you're my number 1. And you as good as claimed scum by not calling me scum from my first post if you are town.

[waynegg]

Like I said, I like playing with you. But you tiger now.

[waynegg]

[waynegg]

Fine. I'll lay it all out there. I want Desp the most because I can see him wifoming out of it if he isn't lynched today.

Here's Mantis's slip

Spoiler:

734 neighbors don't get day talk. I've had that role too
many times and this was a day start. Busted! Checked with Mala
and this was daystart so there's no way that during D1 these guys
had been able to talk in QT at all, if they're neighbors. Crying that
literally nobody called this obvious slip out, though for a moment I
thought that FG was going to. Since he touched on it and then didn't,
he earned a weak scum read for his efforts.

1848 FakeGod asks if the neighbors get day talk

1849 Wisdom: "We don't."


REKKKTTTT!!!!

And my thoughts on Serra which includes why Mantis's slip links directly to him

Serrapaladin ~ Claimed VT Javier Esposito

Spoiler:

20 early scum; AA isn't nice town when voted
130 yeah, much too nice for AA town. She's scum. From
the faked anger to the gentle deflecting.
308 comes on, discredits, disappears

And then serrapaladin comes in and wrecks this, though the slot could still be scum. As good as serra's initial play is, it doesn't erase the original slot holder's definite scum meta. However, 438 is pushing hard with reasons for Slimer to be scum. But he wasn't. In fact, this derailed a couple of decent wagons for what the players

did

instead of what they didn't do.

466 in response to PA's 465 looks like Serra may have been
caught with his pants down...
510 how do you know they would have been mislynches? Maybe
he should be Policy for the information it would give... Besides, he
should be dead by now from a NK if nothing else for his rep...
577acknowledging the claim while pointing out that VT is the most
common mod provided safeclaim. The fact that this came out almost
completely unprovoked doesn't help its legitimacy.
732 link to Mantis
779reminds me of the trial in Idiocracy...

So, here's the poop on Serra. He isn't in this game like others and hasn't followed through on some stuff he's said he's gonna do. His 732 is particularly damning. The moment Wisdom confirmed they didn't have daychat in 1849 he should have been all over Mantis for that slip because it was his original line of questioning. That means he had intimate knowledge that he couldn't simply forget.

fixed a code error ~Mala

[waynegg]

Mod could you please edit my formatting in the Serra spoiler to add a "/" before "post" following 732 so the formatting works, if you have the time?

[waynegg]

Mod could you please edit my formatting in the Serra spoiler to add a "/" before "post" following 732 so the formatting works, if you have the time?

...double formatting fail. I suck.

[waynegg]

Wayne, can you explain again what exactly you're saying in 2723?

I have literally no idea what you're talking about. Like in any of your posts.

Sure

On Mantis

Mantis slipped that he and Wisdom talked in their QT. keep in mind this was D1.

The game was a day start game

FakeGod asked if they had day talk

Wisdom said they didn't

Since it was a day start game, and the neighbors don't have day talk, they couldn't have talked privately to each other at that point.

On Serra

Serra is the one who asked about the neighbors' QT that spurred the comments from Mantis

When FG asked Wisdom if the duo had day talk and Wisdom said they didn't, Serra should have been all over Mantis's previous comment and didn't

[waynegg]

Also waynegg i never said we had day chat. why are u linking my unvote of serra?

I was kinda hoping you would say that, but I didn't think you would since I linked to your quote

what did he say in your QT?

we had like, 2 minutes to talk.

and nothing was said, other than we would try to figure out each others alignments in thread.
:/

Explain?

Also waynegg i never said we had day chat. why are u linking my unvote of serra?

Waynegg have you played with Desp-scum before?

Not to my knowledge

[waynegg]

@Waynegg: please shut up and read the game.

@Mantis: Not really

Wisdom hasn't commented much, if at all , about you recently. Plus he may have talked to u before d1?

Sorry phone access only for the rest of the night :/

we talked pre game.

also
VOTE: serra

We already knew the neighbours didn't have day talk, so kindly fuck off.

This is what caught scum looks like

How about you quote me that tidbit where Mantis said they had pregame talk, cause when I read the game WORD-FOR-WORD twice I must have missed it both times. Maybe you just thought he did because it was in you scum QT or something.

[waynegg]

*deep breath*

Sorry wayne, that was too harsh, but this game has really been getting to me and I thought I finally had some breathing room with Wisdom no longer tunnelling on me.

<3 FG

It's ok. You can try to play with my emotions. I don't have them, but you can try.

[waynegg]

If you think blah blah blah, I think you may need to reconsider how you play this game.

I love when scum say this to me every game

Clarification since you skimmed over it: you talking to Mantis about their QT was fine. You not following up on it when FG asked and Wisdom confirmed they didn't have day talk wasn't so fine.

Question: why do you only get envolved with the game and make longpost 1) when you're facing heat and 2) with the sole intention of saving yourself?

[waynegg]

@Waynegg: please shut up and read the game.

@Mantis: Not really

Wisdom hasn't commented much, if at all , about you recently. Plus he may have talked to u before d1?

Sorry phone access only for the rest of the night :/

we talked pre game.

also
VOTE: serra

We already knew the neighbours didn't have day talk, so kindly fuck off.

This is what caught scum looks like

How about you quote me that tidbit where Mantis said they had pregame talk, cause when I read the game WORD-FOR-WORD twice I must have missed it both times. Maybe you just thought he did because it was in you scum QT or something.

>I quote where she said she talked to Wis pre game.
>You quote that post and ask me where she said that.

Whiskey it is.

So you did. Talking pregame would suggest night start. This isn't night start. Thanks for pointing that out for me. Now I need to rethink you.

P_A, momara... Where are you?

[waynegg]

That "positive" should probably read "positivistic", as in not normative.

So basically go with gut because everything else is rubbish?

[waynegg]

pos·i·tiv·ism (pz-t-vzm)
n.
A doctrine contending that sense perceptions are the only admissible basis of human knowledge and precise thought.

That's saying go with gut. Do you have your terms mixed up?

[waynegg]

Positive analysis is the rational one, but lets not argue definitions.

Nati, I completely agree the hammer was awful, but do you really think it was bad enough for scum to think that doomed desp?

I'm not. Just wanted a clear understanding of what you were saying. Arguing semantics is bleh and I don't enjoy those conversations. What you said was just opposite to what you were doing so I needed clarification. Fair?

[waynegg]

I'm not phone posting. I just got back from being out, saw a bunch of questions i needed to catch up to, more roled in as i answered, assumed his quote, gave my answer, and went on to the next question.

[waynegg]

Serra, take it out of this game.

If your strongest scum read in any game comes in under these circumstances (one more ML to get to mylo with no flipped scum) and tries to QL someone you have been much more waffley on because they had in investigation that proved them scum, what's you gut reaction?

One step further

You realize that investigative role only tells who their target targeted and not what they did, in particular when the said dead guy was the most prolific player the day before they died.

And even one step further

They claim tracker which is the easiest gambit for scum to use in that scenario? So easy and common it's even in the listed gambits in the wiki...

What is your action?

[waynegg]

if serra is not scum though, could it be fakegod?

That was my weaker choice, but since I missed the pregame talk thing I'm looking at stuff again. If that was directed at me.

[waynegg]

You know you love me Mara

[waynegg]

Serra meh, AA was her scum meta cut and dry. One vote and she flips turds. I don't think I could clear the slot based on that alone.

[waynegg]

I don't want Waynne to get into mylo

regardless of who he replaced in

No. It's because she knows I go bonkers at LYLO. I'm fine at MYLO.

[waynegg]

But if we hit scum today, MYLO is put off for another day anyhow. Lynching me would just get us to mylo with no scum flip.

[waynegg]

Yup.

[waynegg]

One question for Mara...

Should I kiss your ring?

[waynegg]

Just asking because it isn't exactly townie to give scum 3 freebies to get to LyLo with a full scum team. I realize I'm not your optimal choice for replacement but ya gotta work with what you've got. It's also kinda interesting scum didn't kill you, a Cop cleared town, when taken from the scum perspective of leave no confirmed town alive...

[waynegg]

WHO KILLED MY WISDOM

I will seek revenge

I will win it for you, Wisdom!!!!

You mean like this, right Serra?

[waynegg]

And if you're framing him Serra, that's a perfect job since the game you linked has a ts neighbor...

That would require a Bert, tayter, (Desp/mantis) team though, yes?

[waynegg]

Grrrr.

How do you NOT see the rationale? We had our spotlight on him--Wisdom, Serra, mollie, me, we all were looking at him hard. He saw a chance at a mislynch, takes it. Today, he comes in, claims a powerful role, gets another mislynch and dies. He was likely tro die anyway!

Because maybe its a tayter, Bert, Desp team? You know you can't convince scum they're scum

[waynegg]

Nah. It implies GF. Why I asked if I should kiss her ring...

[waynegg]

Any after night kills?

pedit shhhh working here

[waynegg]

Well when a Cop and a Cop cleared town are both left alive in favor of a Neighbor that had reasonable doubt still on him, one of the previous two is scum and one is setting the other up.

Who do you find more likely town between those two?

Also, what you said is why Desp is the best lynch today. Could you follow through on that thought?

[waynegg]

Hmmmmmm... None gloating town as town though? Sorry to be a pain.

[waynegg]

This I me right now

Town
Me
Bert
Nat

Scum
Desp
Mantis

Null
Serra
Tayter
FakeGod

Pedit girlfriend

[waynegg]

And we all know ow devious they can be...

[waynegg]

I've only said it since the day start. It can't be a shock Mantis

[waynegg]

There are no ongoing games except this one Bert.

And Mara wants me dead for the Newbie we were in where I did a triple layer gambit to wipe her universal town read and lynched her scum hiney. She still owes me

[waynegg]

and you were making sense

Don't worry, I will again.

[waynegg]

and you were making sense

Don't worry, I will again.

then please stop this desp & i are scum together.
it's making me depressed with this game

did you get a hold of serra's whiskey as well?

If only.

But I am halfway there. This is me now

Town
Me
Nat
Bert
P_A

Scum
Desp

Null
Manti
FG
Pertayter

[waynegg]

Desperado is scum when it is obvious that he isn't given the timing of his claim

Please act like I'm a preschooler and point me to where I'm wrong

1 no scum has flipped in this game (SK doesn't count for these purposes)

2 with a m/l today, we're probably in mylo tomorrow still without a scum flip

3 scummotivation is high to push a m/l, probably more today than any other point in the game

4 in the eventuality town catch on to the play, Desp would be the best choice to do this push, because
a) he already has plenty of suspicion on his slot
b) with how little he's posted, it would be safe to assume few connections could be drawn if he flips scum

5) quicklynch is a classic scum tactic

6) tracker doesn't give reliable info on what action a tracked player has taken

7) in general, tracker is all but impossible to disprove without a flip so its a low risk play for scum to make

For the life of me, I CAN'T FIND ANY TOWN MOTIVATION TO HIS PLAY

Pedit. Of course I do, but until I'm sure which I won't name them. Of course, just lynching the list would end in town win.

[waynegg]

I'm glad someone finally asked

***penguin_alien*** ~ Claimed Jenny Shaw

Spoiler:

465 given Slimer's town flip, scum wouldn't take
this line of questioning. Solid town.
1141 owns thread so much with this post
1151 if I could make love to this post, I would

Whether you've played with P_A or not, if you analyze his posts based on the motivation behind them (working within himself and in a limited capacity with others to sort out scum vs. self preservation when facing heat and finger pointing) he's clearly town. This theme has continued throughout the game with him and it would take some really major development for me to consider touching this slot.

Then there's the high probability that Jenny Shaw wouldn't have been claimed right after Jordan Shaw if it were a fake claim because it would be too obvious.

[waynegg]

Is she pushing Wisdom? Yes. Is her point of view off? No. Those are all very valid reasons to suspect him of being scummy. The posts came off genuine and like they were her true beliefs at the time.

[waynegg]

She was the only player who voiced what I was thinking for the most part while I did my read troughs which made her sound even more natural.

[waynegg]

Left Serra off the nulls :/

[waynegg]

Guess I'm invisible to tayter...

[waynegg]

[waynegg]

Under the circumstances yes. And QL, not just a ML which would have ended the day early so town had no time to work out reads. Where's the town motivation? Even if he did get lynched the next day it would still be perpetual mylo and tracker gives him the chance to talk his way out of it since it isn't definite in its results

[waynegg]

Y u wanna hit peeps with fish? That's just mean.

[waynegg]

2810 what's the motivation for offing a townie to force 3 days of mylo in a game where scum are at full strength, regardless of how you perceive their play? That would require town lynching perfect for three days straight (assuming 3 scum though it could be 2 with the SK), and we haven't done that for one day straight yet.

Even if that were the case, why a player who has done quite a bit of work tracing connections with players over say (no offense) a player like Bert who has pretty well sheeped and has demonstrated that he's already confused? Not at all saying Bert should be lynched. Just pointing out the fallacy. Also want to point out this post, and the one just previous to it where they voted me, came after I'd already stated suspicion of Tayter's slot. I see zero town motivation, and if someone I feel I can probably trust can't come up with some, I'm starting to think they may be the best lynch for today. Here's why...

Nat cleared them with his Cop claim

Desp claimed tracker with a circumstantial guilty on Mantis

While we have no way of knowing right now which is telling the truth, it could be a waste to lynch either

Lynching Tayter and hitting scum will implicate Nat (unless Godfather)

Nat cleared= Desp scum, probably Serra scum, and Mantis cleared

Nat implicated= Desp cleared, Mantis/Serra scum

Either way it would give us solid info to proceed to town win, and moreso than Desp by himself. Also more than Serra by himself, though I could vote here today as well of need be.

I would like to hear from Nat and Desp before hearing from Tayter on this please.

Given her their earlier play (which pinged with Mollie too) Tayter has given off scum vibes. Their play today has definitely been scummy.

[waynegg]

If you think the logic behind it is sound

[waynegg]

I could see the Wisdom bit, but I don't want to stir that pot.

[waynegg]

And Om, you sure are defensive. Especially considering I asked you to hold off until I could get input from both Nat and Desp. There's purpose to that.

[waynegg]

I'm not reading you as town, but you are me so that question doesn't apply.

[waynegg]

Now how about not derailing this and let it play out. You read me as town, so it's obviously town motivated.

[waynegg]

Nat. I just want your opinion ion on the logic behind my thought. Not whether we're lynching that slot today or not. Just that and nothing else.

[waynegg]

Just because it's town motivated doesn't mean it's not horribly fucking wrong.

You don't even know what I'm doing, so how about showing your town colors and stop derailing the play.

[waynegg]

Were not lynching potato today, waynegg. I will grant you I do have a shred of skepticism at the moment, but its not optimal today-we either lynch the tracked target(mantis) or the claimed tracker(Desperado).

I guess I'll just take that as a reluctant yes.

So now I just need to hear from Desp.

[waynegg]

How self preservationist. So much so I don't even need to continue with the line. I was trying to check with both of our claimed investigators to see if they saw the logic of the play. If they did, then with Pertayter's flip it would most likely reveal the whole scum team either way. Then I was going to ask them if they would be willing to martyr themselves to insure a town victory and proceed accordingly based on their answer. Since I'm already getting one of the two answers I was hoping for, and vehemently at that, there's no reason to go on with it. Thanks for making it simple.


VOTE: Pertayter

[waynegg]

Wayne

why don't you just STFU and let the big boys and girls handle this

Because, otherwise I will personally Push a 1v1 against you and

won't stop until you're dead regardless of you being obvious town

And I must say that's some excellent town thinking there. It wouldn't push town into a virtual no win situation at all...

[waynegg]

Once a leopard has shown its spots it can't go back to being a house cat. Either way, town should know the entire scum team with her flip. That can't be said for a single other player alive in the game.

[waynegg]

Well, maybe with Desp, but I think there's too much to wifom from off lynching his slot even if he does flip scum. And if I'm right about Tayter and she makes it to LyLo, scum wins.

[waynegg]

I love you too

[waynegg]

She flips town

Exonerates Nat

Implicates Desp

Implicates Serra

Third would still be unknown, but there are good connection, particularly early D1 wit Bert buddying her

[waynegg]

No blacklisting. If she's scum, and that's real, it was a brilliant play.

[waynegg]

Mara is great and I would play with her any time! I mean that!

[waynegg]

And off the start of my gambit, yes, I think scum will be found in Serra either way. But that's mostly a stand alone without connections.

I don't think scum Desp would bus Mantis the way he did to push mylo x3 because it would implicate the both of them once you or Tayter flipped town which would inevitably happen. The play doesn't make sense that way.

[waynegg]

You town flip would implicate Desp, Mara, because it would validate Nat. The whole deciding whether to trust Nat or Desp claim is the whole of what's held up a Desp lynch.

[waynegg]

Serra implicates himself either way, but doesn't have connections to others in this game at all.

[waynegg]

Which is in and of itself a large part of what implicates Serra. He's played the game for himself, start to finish.

[waynegg]

It doesn't implicate at all though. If I was scum, I could easily fake an inno.

Did you? And if so, you deserve the win because all your other posts have come with town motivation as I read them.

[waynegg]

I never posted my notes on Nat, so...

***Natirasha*** ~ Claimed Cop Meredith

Spoiler:

65 game just started and already losing interest?
112 Ah...now I see. You can be town
224 why do frustrated town always assume scum are "lying low"
when they can't pick up on the motivation behind a player's
posting?
602 comes off as trying to be helpful without actually being so
1119 usually the most obvious answer is the correct one. It's more
likely because he thought those other four are scum and that Nat
isn't. He even said as much. It's unbelievable the extent to which
Wisdom has suckered you all in by this point to his line of dribble. Did
you ever ask yourself, Nat and others, why Wisdom was addressing
questions to you guys about what was going through someone else's
mind instead of to Serra himself. This kind of attacking someone's
credibility through others instead of attacking the actual target to
where they can give their explanations as to their state of mind has
absolutely zero town motivation. And a few of you fell for it.
Other than Wisdom, there's probably one scum abstaining from this
conversation and one backing it up, "reluctantly".
1931 yeah, that confirmation

This is my newest untouchable. Nat was intolerably null until his claim for which there was no counter-claim. An un-cc'd Cop claim will do it every time, so yeah, not even considering touching this slot.

[waynegg]

I didn't make note of the Cop crumbs because on the off chance nobody had picked them up, I wasn't going to be the one to reveal them.

[waynegg]

But, I was wrong on Wisdom, so there's that...

[waynegg]

Don't replace out. Kill me off before you do that.

[waynegg]

My notes reflect the irritation I had reading through. Sorry for that. I could have cleaned them up.

[waynegg]

Then who do you suggest and why? I saw a lot of connections to your slot one way or the other and you seem to be the keystone.

[waynegg]

^to Mara

[waynegg]

VOTE: Desparado

[waynegg]

Not that it matters apparently, but my logic isn't fallacious. I would prove it, but I somehow don't think that would matter.

[waynegg]

2979

Thanks

pedit I really wasn't trying to add to that Om. I'm just putting my thoughts out there. When you guys flew off the handle (which I don't understand, because I'm pretty sure I should be able to post my thoughts like anyone else) it looked scummy and I went with it. Any sarcastic tone in my notes comes from the frustration with one player. Sorry I didn't edit that out. Desp was already virtually 3 votes toward his speed lynch and I had to post when I did to give an opposing opinion and didnt have the time to. I just forgot about it before I posted Nat. Ok?

[waynegg]

It was obvious macmollie left for that reason as well as at least one other. And yeah, I have a bit of paranoia. But that paranoia usually does come up with good results. Usually.

[waynegg]

Also. That's L-1 I believe.

[waynegg]

It's big egos and not alot of backing for it.

I understand. I've been working on that because a lot of what I said, no matter how right it may have been, was being roughly ignored because of how abrasive it was. My ITT (re: not my copypasta'd notes) has reflected that. I haven't even cursed. And I can see where Mara would read my frustration as the Troll type stuff she's seen before, but I promise it wasn't that. I read Wisdom about like how I read me and it was irritating and made me feel like a turd for how played pre suspension. It reflected in what I was typing in my notes. I see how playing like that gives scum a place to hide.

[waynegg]

It's big egos and not alot of backing for it.

I have a lot of backing for it, but it still doesn't give me or anyone else the right to be a jerk.

[waynegg]

So, I started thinking... Why would Wisdom be killed by scum when he was providing so much wifom for scum to hide in? Reading him again left me with this. Bert is trusting him. Mantis is trusting him. He (before getting into it with Mollie) was all over Serra, P_A, FG, and Desp. I really think P_A is town. He was hardest on Penguin though, so there's that. And we all know Desp was scum. For scum to target him, it would only make sense that he was onto at least 2 scum. We shouldn't forget P_A's claim of Jenny Shaw should we lynch FG today and he flip scum.

By POE, I think FG is scum. These were my FG notes.

FakeGod ~ Claimed VT Jordan Shaw

Spoiler:

122 I like this post, but I could see it coming as easily from scum as
from town
509 the second time I see anything worth commenting on in this
slot; the rest was all pointy fingers and I don't give that any credit by
itself.

The rest of TNE's posts have been very noncommittal, painting peeps as scum, or prod dodging. Maybe things will clear a little with Fake God. Right now, if I had to choose, this slot would be scum, but only just. Null feels better unitl I get to FG.

1848 not following up on what he saw that made him ask this
question makes his slot suspect right now.
1873 attacking the attack instead of the accusation

I'm not so strong on FakeGod. He's been playing what I've seen of his town game, but I only have one game with him. He does seem to be floating on others' reads a bit and I can see how he could work into team scum if one of my other reads fails. Last choice for scum as of now since that would require Wisdom to be town, but still getting a bit of a scummy vibe.

And Wisdom did flip town, so...

VOTE: FakeGod

[waynegg]

Either that or someone was being framed for Wisdom, and I didn't look for that. Did anyone else?

[waynegg]

I'm going through a bit of a lull but ill try to get in some...always phone access only when this game picks up, it seems

I did read through the night, something nacho never recommends

My gut screamed scum when I saw desperado and penguin claim two people with the same last name

I am paranoid about mantis reading me scum when I was phone access only and wanted to extend the day

Gut feels like she is town

She is exploring everyone

And also please if u think I am a liability in LYLO, I need to go, today. Not tomorrow

Gotta go eat lunch with ppl now, ttyl

If that was for me. I don't think you're a liability at all. It was FG and P_A who claimed the Shaws.

And we're back! So my desp read was right... That was still some pretty weird play by him. I really think a hard-push to get peng lynched would have made more sense.

Tater is conftown. Mantis-scum would be some incredible play by desp, but I really don't see it given her reaction. As much as I wish I could silence him, wayne is most likely town, too (particularly given macmollie's ragequit), leaving the remaining scum in {FG, peng, Bert}, with a mislynch in hand.

Why do you think PA is town? What do you think of Wisdom's push on her?

The one thing that counts in her favour is that she's been making a lot of sense, but that doesn't need to mean town.

We have essentially the same reads from the same connections an POE, and you want to silence me why exactly? Because I have you in my possible scum pile?

As to P_A, if FG flips scum she would be a logical choice given the Shaw business. Why do you have Tayter as conf town?

[waynegg]

tne and Desperado? Well let's see...

Vote: thenewearth

His RVS

I don't mind macmollie's for the same reason I'm asking Mantis that question.

So the reason you don't like mine is because you aren't suspicious of thenewearth?

Vote: thenewearth

MUST... NOT... OMGUS...

Oh I'm so fake mad...

Desperado, why come in and vote someone who hasn't posted when there's a whole exchange going on right above your post? Mantisdreamz, why ask if pirate mollie's in the macmollie hydra when that info is in the OP?

1) Which exchange, Mantis - Potato or Bert - Potato?
2) What about those exchanges seem interesting?
3.1) Mantis - Potato exchange was pretty much "Hi this guy scum --> No he's not --> Oh OK" So I don't really understand what's supposed to "ping" me, as well
3.2) Bert - Potato exchange was pretty much "Oh hi town --> DON'T U SAY I'M TOWN --> Why not? --> BECAUSE I VOTE YOU"

Vote: thenewearth

MUST... NOT... OMGUS...

Oh you're actually town this game. Good to know.

Unvote
Vote: Bert

Distance, because, after all, Desp does

look

so town

---

...I didn't think he'd posted because when I looked for his name in the ISO menu I was thinking 'newearth' instead of 'thenewearth' and stopped scrolling.

So are you saying you didn't care for Desperado's vote on thenewearth because you didn't think TNE had posted yet? Because you got their name wrong when looking for posts in the Activity Overview area?

Yeah, not my shining moment in reading comprehension. To elaborate, my line of thought was that a bare vote wasn't much in the way of pressuring someone to participate if that was his goal. And I thought we were starting to move past RVS, so it being totally random didn't feel right.

I've rolled scum with Newearth before in Micro 150 and wanted to judge his reaction to an early wagon because he got wagoned early D1 in then. Didn't get a wagon but his response was genuine and that one post had more pro-town motivation than his entire ISO in the Micro.

GRRZRRZRRZRRZRRZRRZRRZRRZRR!!!

arc, newearth, lynx, and fitz are all town until further notice

Further notice given...

@Bert: Self-Vote, Hydra hating, And ESPECIALLY BOREDOM, Are not tells. They are completely null. COMPLETELY

Desperado Looks so town.
Lynx_Shine is also town.
Nat is bored town-null
I would have said bert is town but...

Vote: Desperado

Bert is scum.

all I wanna do is lynch desp, wis and dry fitz.

tator is town for early paranoia after 1 post, mantis feels town, desp's wking of nats person (hated post #92) makes me want to put nats person as town also she is calling too much attention to herself, bert is town, mantis is town everybody else is pretty boring cos I don't remember any of you

let's see what this does

VOTE: desperado

Why do I feel that... This is such a biased read that came from mollie?

Macmollie also scumz

VOTE: Macmollie

Bert's their buddy. So we can lynch him later

This post was just so bad...and a cross vote...

___________________________________________

And then it pretty much goes on in that manner for a little while and then they pretty well stay clear of each other. Why did you want me to go through this exercise though Serra, when my vote is already on FG?

Oh and 78 makes Bert town, so I think everyone can safely get off that suspicion. Agree?

[waynegg]

Tater is conftown because there's no godfather. Scum wouldn't have a roleblocker AND a godfather.

I don't like this though. GF is a passive role and scum RB relies on luck or claims. It's perfectly logical to have both in the same game. The

way

you say that GF isn't in this game makes me trust that call and raises my eyebrows on you at the same time...

[waynegg]

4.01

with seven alive it will take four to lynch.

*waynegg -
*Sweet Pertayter -
*FakeGod - waynegg, Serrapaladin [2]
*Mantisdreamz -
*Serrapaladin - Sweet Pertayter, bert [2]
*Bert -
*penguin_alien -

Not Voting [3]: penguin_alien, fakeGod, Mantisdreamz

Chapter 3 Ends..

Day 4 ends in (expired on 2013-09-24 13:20:00)

Mod fail. >.> No one saw that.

Saw what? Lol!

[waynegg]

EBWOP no cross vote from tne, but there is some associative with Desp.

Question at large: does anyone have experience as scum in a Mala theme and if so does she give relational safeclaims to scum, such as the Shaw thing?

[waynegg]

bah, I'm confused.

Scum effectively gave town a confirmed town by shooting Nati.

Why the hell would they do that when they have a roleblocker?

It doesn't make any sense.

pedit: I'm not voting anyone until I rethink this through, Wayne.

ummm... SWEET PERTAYTER!!!

I don't control your vote FG, so I don't see why you're addressing that to me.

[waynegg]

VOTE: penguin

Why?

[waynegg]

So, what did I miss that makes you think the SK was investigation immune?

[waynegg]

It makes no sense that anyone could know or even think this given he flipped day one and didn't come back Ninja or whatever... These are the flips

havingfitz -

Jerry Tyson - Serial Killer

- Thrown over a bridge (Lynched) Day 1
Lynx_Shine -

Kate Beckett - Vanilla Townie

- Exploded by a Bomb Night 1.
Huntress -

Captain Victoria Gates - Bodyguard

- Killed by a sniper riffle (Lynched) Day 2.
Wisdom -

Alexis Castle - Town Neighbor

- Kidnapped & exploded by a gadget Night 2.
Desperado -

William Bracken "The Dragon" - 1-shot Mafia Bulletproof

- Exploded by a bomb (lynched) Day 3.
Natirasha -

Meredith - Sane Cop

- One way trip to Paris taken during Night 3.

P_A and Serra refusing to accept even the possibility of GF gives me the willies

UNVOTE:

[waynegg]

Mod: Assuming no role block, how many different results could the Sane Cop get with his investigations, 2 or 3?

[waynegg]

VOTE: Mantisdreams with reasons

[waynegg]

One of the reasons was nicely eloquent ex by P_A. By scum bussing in the situation with Desperado, they would leave themselves in a win-win situation. No matter which eventually fell to the hangman's noose, the other would come out the other side smelling like roses. At that point in the game, team scum definitely had one to give.

Occam's Razor says Mantis is likely town, as Desperado trying to set her up looks most likely, but given that Desperado came out of the gate with guns blazing yesterday, I won't rule out that it was planned. If they're both scum, scenario A has Mantis lynched and Desperado looking like a bonafide tracker. Scenario B has Desperado lynched and Mantis looking like part of a town-town neighborhood. It's pretty neatly wrapped up.

It's not enough for me to want Mantis lynched today, but I'm not shaking the suspicion there. Especially with the whole disingenuous, "PA is scum, why are people voting town-serra?" If you're town thinking I'm scum, make a case, let's talk.

____________________________________________________

Then there's VCA

FINAL LYNCH OF DAY 1

With thirteen alive it will take seven to lynch.

*macmollie - thenewearth [1]
*theslimer3 -
*Sweet Pertayter -
*thenewearth -
*Mantisdreamz - havingfitz, macmollie [2]
*Wisdom -
*Serrapaladin - Theslimer3, Desperado [2]
*Desperado -
*Lynx_Shine -
*Bert -
*Natirasha - Wisdom [1]
*penguin_alien -
*havingfitz - Natirasha, Serrapaladin, Mantisdreamz, Lynx_Shine, bert, Sweet Pertayter, penguin_alien [7] [LYNCH]

Not Voting [0]:

Chapter 1 Ends..

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-08-19 03:52:00)

(There are no hints/clues in this flavor or in any flavor of the vote counts or death scenes. It's for entertainment purposes.)

... Flip in the next post.

final lynch of Day 2

with eleven alive it will take six to lynch.

*macmollie - bert [1]
*Huntress - Sweet Pertayter, macmollie, Natirasha, Mantisdreamz, Wisdom, Desperado [6] [Lynch]
*Sweet Pertayter -
*FakeGod -
*Mantisdreamz -
*Wisdom -
*Serrapaladin - FakeGod [1]
*Desperado -
*Bert -
*Natirasha -
*penguin_alien - Huntress [1]

Not Voting [2]: Serrapaladin, penguin_alien

Chapter 2 Ends..

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2013-09-05 03:00:00)

Flip in the next post.

Final Vote Count of Day 3

with nine alive it will take five to lynch.

*waynegg -
*Sweet Pertayter -
*FakeGod -
*Mantisdreamz - Desperado, FakeGod [2]
*Serrapaladin -
*Desperado - Natirasha, Mantisdreamz, Sweet Pertayter, waynegg, Serrapaladin [5] [LYNCH]
*Bert -
*Natirasha -
*penguin_alien -

Not Voting [2]: penguin_alien, bert

Chapter 3 Ends..

Day 3 ends in (expired on 2013-09-19 12:55:00)

Flip in the next post.

I haven't seen this used or talked about much here on MS, though it is a solid tell and is even written up in the wiki. It was used to much success where I first started playing. Basically this ~ scum have 2 motivations. One, lynch town. Two, look townie while doing it. In ore der to fill both motivations, scum often (very often) end up being third/fourth on any wagon. She was third on having fitz, fourth on Wisdom, and what looks like second on Desperado. Only I was initially first on Desp and got off while discussing Tayter, then back on. Therefor, she was third on that wagon as well.

____________________________________________

Then there's my original read on Mantis. Part analysis and part gut just like with anyone else

Mantisdreamz ~ Claimed Neighbor Richard Castle

Spoiler:

643 SHENANIGANS!!! Long drawn-out stall
instead of claiming in a timely manner then swooping in just barely
before deadline, and seven minutes after he was put at L-1! This is
scum and should be killed with fire! I don't believe for a second he'll
flip town neighbor. I'm a firm believer in 'it takes only a second to
paraphrase a role pm and an eternity to come up with a good fake
claim'. I hammer without hesitation every time I've seem someone
stall like this and every time they've been scum. I would have
hammered here had i been in the game at that point

____________________________________________


If you like, I'll even borrow DGB's scumputer and do that too. Think I will just for fun since DGB recently explained to me the parts I was shaky on. Her reaction to my one vote didnt read very natural either, so if I was gambiting for reaction, she would have failed there as it comes off as contrived and discrediting.

[waynegg]

macmollie

- Mantisdreamz, thenewearth, Bert, ArcAngel9,

Lynx_Shine, Sweet Pertayter

Two scum here - 200 point wagon


Serrapaladin -

macmollie, theslimer3, Wisdom

,

Desperado

,

Sweet Pertayter

One scum here, scum found


Mantisdreamz -

havingfitz

, Bert, Serrapaladin,

macmollie, Natirasha, Lynx_Shine

Two scum here, one scum found - 100 point wagon


Serrapaladin -

Theslimer3, Wisdom

,

Desperado

, Mantisdreamz

Two scum here, one scum found - 100 point wagon

Natirasha

- Mantisdreamz,

Sweet Pertayter, Wisdom, Lynx_Shine

, Bert

One scum here - 100 point wagon

havingfitz

-

Natirasha

, Serrapaladin, Mantisdreamz,

Lynx_Shine

, bert,

Sweet Pertayter

, penguine_alien

Lynch wagon, Two scum here - 200 point wagon


thenewearth -

macmollie, Natirasha

, penguin_alien,

Sweet Pertayter

One scum here - 100 point wagon


Mantisdreamz -

macmollie, Sweet Pertayter, Natirasha

,

Desperado

One scum here, scum found


penguin_alien -

Wisdom

, Mantisdreamz, bert,

Natirasha, Sweet Pertayter

One scum here - 100 point wagon


FakeGod -

Natirasha, Sweet Pertayter, macmollie

, bert

One scum here - 100 point wagon


Serrapaladin -

Desperado

,

macmollie

, bert, FakeGod

Two scum here, one scum found -100 point wagon

Huntress - Sweet Pertayter, macmollie

, bert,

Wisdom, Natirasha

, Mantisdreamz,

Wisdom

,

Desperado

Lynch wagon, Two scum here, one scum found - 100 point wagon


Mantisdreamz -

Desperado

, Serrapaladin, FakeGod

Two scum here, one scum found, 100 point wagon

Desperado

-

Natirasha

, Mantisdreamz,

Sweet Pertayter, waynegg

, Serrapaladin

Lynch wagon, one scum here - 100 point wagon

Bert 450

Mantisdreamz 400

Serrapaladin ArcAngel9 250

FakeGod thenewearth 150

penguin_alien 150

Hmm, that isn't exactly what I expected. The lurking of tne and AA most likely skewed the results of those slots, weighted more on tne than on AA since AA was replaced much sooner so I would flop the positioning of those two as a resultand is reflected in the color coding for the results on FakeGod's slot. Still doesn't change the front runners for scum. I'm totally good with my vote.

[waynegg]

One formatting fail on the second Serra wagon. Wisdom and Slimer should be green obviously. Not bad for iPad (phone) posting

[waynegg]

FTR, my figures aren't skewed. I take it you either haven't played with DGB or haven't bothered to see how her scumputer thing works? It's just a flow chart, but it gives amazing results. Gotta love the cold, hard simplicity of math. Here's a link so you can get better acquainted

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Scumputer

I'm good where I'm at. With VCA, scumputer, the motivation behind Desp's play (what would be the point of dishing a town to just get lynched the next day), the long hesitation to claim though she clearly present in the thread, other connections I haven't even mentioned, and gut, Mantis is my top scum read bar none. There's too much that makes sense for him to be scum and I'm not going anywhere. You can call it a tunnel, but I just barely got off FG to get on Mantis so it's kinda fishy to give it that nomenclature.

[waynegg]

Yeah. Your vote analysis reads more VT than anything else, and is why I'm not voting for you. I'm solid we'll hit scum with Mantis. We're you wanting an ordered list from me from highest to lowest suspicion or something?

[waynegg]

*were

[waynegg]

Gut is great. A lot of times you subconsciously latch onto something you just can't put into words to explain why you feel that way. You'll never hear me bitch about gut. I think it's totally legit.

Mantis->FakeGod->Serra->penguin

That's my order of suspicion, and unless you, Tayter, or penguin (aka town reads) have me fooled, town should be good.

[waynegg]

How is tater town again? Boy, do I not get your progressions... Didn't you think she was a GF?

Nat is confirmed Sane Cop...

Didn't you say that wasn't possible in this game? And I thought it was a possibility and asked questions to firm up the result. I gotta drop my paranoia somewhere and results from Nat are are good place to start. Not concerned about one of three possible scum not liking my progressions either. Just makes me that much more happy with where I'm at.

[waynegg]

If they planned it out before hand...yeah.

[waynegg]

Other than forcing MyLo, what would scum gain by so aggressively shipping a town yesterday with 2 conf town before the day even started? They had to know with more and more limited possibilities to choose from as players made more town connections, at least one of them has to have town cred to win. Bussing at that point, when town is frustrated from not hitting a single main team scum would be the play to make. That way, regardless of which got lynched one would walk away with that cred.

So, I'll throw that back at you. Look at how aggressively Desp didn't defend himself after I came in and derailed his speed wagon, and take note of how soft he got on Mantis until he finally just stopped posting and let it play out. What doesn't look like their objective was accomplished and one of them walked away with clean town cred.

Then look back at D2 at how hard Wisdom pushed both of them and how much suspicion was on both slots. Now, thanks to Scum play Mantis has instant town cred. Why did that suspicion just evaporate? Thinking like scum, that's the logical play because it gives either enough WIFOM to work with for the win in mylo/LyLo. A perfect play, and it's that perfection that stinks. The uninformed majority is far from perfect.

And before you ask why I wasn't saying this yesterday...we can only lynch one person a day and Desp was the better choice. If we had nailed Mantis yesterday and he flipped scum, everyone would be completely convinced Desp was a Tracker and would be all but impossible to lynch today.

[waynegg]

And he would have had the wifom needed to talk his way out of it, and even if that failed it would just go to mylo with an unknown scum. That puts scum at the advantage to win. As it is, we still have a mislynch to give and have been able to narrow our choices to 3 in order to hit 2 scum. I'm trying not to be paranoid at this point to show Mara, among others, I don't have to be a liability at this point in the game. I'm pretty well locked in to my course of action. Thanks for trying to bring that paranoia back though

[waynegg]

Also, have you ever noticed how much the Imp looks like Luke Skywalker?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Luke_Sky ... ilight.jpg

They seriously need to do a little person version of that saga!

[waynegg]

also waynegg.... you suck!
just in case you didn't see that before : )

/out

I'm going to hydra with Mantisdreamz

ArtemisKitty

This.

Assuming caught scum Mantis here : )

[waynegg]

also waynegg.... you suck!
just in case you didn't see that before : )

Not the hydra slip, the give up post

[waynegg]

waynegg, I don't feel like looking up the theory behind the 100/200 point lynches--how do you determine which are 200 point and which are 100 point? I get the rest of it.

It's a short read, but ok. Each wagon is worth 100 pts per scum expected to be on said wagon. Expecting one scum would make it worth 100 points, three scum 300 pts. After eliminating flipped and known players, the points are divided equally among the unknown living players equally.

Wayne, Mantis and P_A are almost definitely not scum.
Serra is the towniest out of him, Bert and FG.
I'd rather go for FG now and lynch Bert tomorrow, because I still have more of a chance of being wrong about Bert.
The reason I'm thinking Bert though is both a mix of PoE and the fact that Bert has basically stopped being town within the last couple of days and his play today seems entirely different from his play at the beginning of the game.

VOTE: FakeGod
~Om

And I'll work with you. I obviously think FG is a fine vote. My faith in Mantis is just lower because looking back over everything and applying as many filters as possible it makes sense for her to be scum.

VOTE: FakeGod

[waynegg]

Trying. What are your reads on your way out?

[waynegg]

I think I'd like. Some popcorn...

Michael Smith VT

Popcorn to Bert

[waynegg]

Yep and I was reading PyP Open 505. Won't vote penguin today as a result. So that leaves Bert, Serra, Mantis to choose from for me.

[waynegg]

I'm paranoid, sorry. Don't think his name was online when I cast the vote, and when I logged back to the lobby, he was online

we need to talk

I was online, but I must wonder why you're using oog info. I've been on the last 30ish minutes

[waynegg]

Serra

VOTE: Serra

His play here mirrors Amnesiac where he was scum.

[waynegg]

Mantis...

[waynegg]

My play mirrors Amnesiac in what way?

Tone, direction, and lack of a firm stance. That and having to be "convinced" to vote townies moreso than when you're town. You also seek to gain favor and not raise too many eyebrows for too long a period.

In short, your scum play is much more cautious than that your town play. You've been that type of cautious here.

Pedits

Unvote

Thanks

I already did

...Let's

And that hasn't changed. Serra was up there too.

Skip the last 3

[waynegg]

A late-game mention of "your play here is like __insert scum game___" is the oldest play in the book.

That's not a defense. At least not one town would use. Serra is scum guys.

[waynegg]

I have a headache but

need to think

Waynegg you had mantis as your top scumread before, I think...

And look who the two piling on to discredit me are all of a sudden after obv towning me the last2 days...

[waynegg]

Funny how they could all of a sudden be so active when their activity has come in spurts at best all game. Vote me Bert and they will hammer quickly.

pedit I'm reading with the same 2 eyes I've been reading with since inheriting this slot.

[waynegg]

WAYNEGG -->

Mantis...

what? >.>

um waynegg, can you please explain why penguin is town to you??

Yep and I was reading PyP Open 505. Won't vote penguin today as a result. So that leaves Bert, Serra, Mantis to choose from for me.

[waynegg]

Lol!

Not invalid...just sudden. That's really craptastic. Have anything better than that? Rhetorical of course because I know I could never convince you you're scum...

[waynegg]

And other than a quick distance vote, YOU WERE NULL ON DESP.

[waynegg]

...I have voted slimer, fitz, and FG more or less without being prompted (

as well as mantis, who is likely town, too

).

Isn't that precious!

[waynegg]

Desp is my realest scumread. Mollie/slimer/wis come next, of which slimer most needs to die because just look at his posts.

Yep. D1 you were "on" him. The wording here is awkward as hell, like "this scum read is real, the other three fake. Help me get town cred and hop on my bus" awkward.

The desp vote was a joke. We still don't have a majority, so there's no use.

From D1

VOTE: Desp

Wis, do you actually think desp and I might be buddies?

This no conviction, get off my back, see I can vote Desp too looks particularly bad

God dammit desp might be town and I need to do some reading.

UNVOTE:

If someone teaches me how

nawk

works, I might still get to this tonight?

And Desp goes to null...

Well, I'm not sure desp would do this as scum. And if desp is telling the truth, Nati-town seems unlikely.

Now leaning town...

One mislynch gets us to Mylo with no flipped scum. Are you obfuscating stupidity or just actually this dense? That's all the motivation needed for scum to do this and he had plenty of suspicion on him near the end of D2

But it also gives us 1 confscum. Unless scum were sure desp would be today's lynch, it doesn't make sense, no matter how patronising you are about it.

To discredit my Despscum case...

You make very little sense, egg.

More D3 discredit of me driving Desp wagon

VOTE: Mantis

I'm pretty sure this is the right lynch for today.

Trying to derail Desp wagon...

If desp is scum, he is of course the best lynch, but I'm wrong about my reads a lot and I'm sure you are too. You need to be more than 50% certain of Desp being scum for his lynch to be the better option, and I think that's a vast overestimate of town's ability to read people.

Save Desp moar...

VOTE: Desp

This game needs to end, one way or another.

And a flaccid vote once his chainsaw runs out of gas.

[waynegg]

Is there any way we could get a link to the dead QT? : P

[waynegg]

So now you give no credence to meta? When did that happen?

[waynegg]

If he were town, he would have already been hammered. This is probably LyLo, the gang's all here, and a townie is voting him...

[waynegg]

5) Mantis, Penguin, Slimer lean town. SP, Bert, Serra lean scum. If Nat is scum, SP and Serra aren't which means one of the three lean towns is scum. Any more detail would be fabricated, which is why I don't feel compelled to make something up to satisfy you two.

Oh my...

Interesting fact. Serra quoted Desp once while "building a case on Desp sum" though he multiquoted everyone he's helped to push for ML.

I don't think that was the time to distance, to be honest.

Why? Do you really think a Mantis flashwagon was viable?

And the totally dropped it on the next page with no prompting, even though you voted with her.

Totally. Peng did have intent to hammer on her not much later...

This was the only other time he quoted Desp before he died and it was in support of Desp. Not much in the way of case building there.

[waynegg]

Pretty sure I called that first, Wisdom.

And it's not like you didn't suspect Serra to your own death. Easy to be a Monday morning quarterback.

[waynegg]

Had a gambit for the end that would have helped, but went off derp hunting for why Serrawas scum some more instead. Lol! Ah well, I'll save it for another game. Suckers cues it woulda worked here.