Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Tammy]

IoA - I've been reading the dead today. Collecting some bits from their ISO that I want to look at again. (Yes, I read the dead - scum and town - I know some people find it pointless and annoying, I don't.)

Spoiler: Implosion and some interaction between Implosion, Toasty and Magister Ludi

Hi.

Toasty: connection hunting is

bad.

In a 29-player game, the probability that you're going to successfully pick out two scum from a relational tell on day one is practically zero. I always cite Vi's guide when i'm making this point but yeah it should be obvious why and I don't feel like going into why right now.

Toasty is scummy. First of all the way that he voted for UN instead of Tammy in his first post doesn't make sense - he said that he shifts to UN, essentially, because UN called Tammy town. So his suspicion on uberninja is largely dependent on his suspicion of Tammy. On the other hand, he gave independent reasons to be suspicious of Tammy, but didn't vote on them. He votes uberninja essentially for being scum with Tammy. He also talks about the way that Tierce treated uberninja. His comments on post 68 also misinterpret the post in a rather strange way, as calling Tammy town and then voting her. I really feel like if you read something and misread it like that, you'd read it again until you realized what it actually said, and not just go with that being what it is. Unless he's talking about where UN just overtly called Tammy town, but that was after he voted Tammy, and he said later that he forgot his vote had been on Tammy. In fact, he explained that he had forgotten his vote was on tammy

before toasty's post

. Either way, toasty is missing very overt things from the people that he's calling scum.

Also dislike pretty much all of 449.

My first impressions of tammy/un/tierce are all town (tierce more so than the others). Alchemist might be scum. Less so than toasty right now. I'll look at other people later.

VOTE: Toasty

I checked the votecount. I wish Alchemist got more votes, but that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Unvote
Vote: Teleporting Speed Hippos

Alchemist's wagon isn't taking off so you vote someone with no votes on them?

Dramonic is still a good vote. Magister ludi is a meh vote. Greyice is a meh vote.

Also, the blue number went up by two in a matter of about ten posts and four hours, so it's probably not activity-related.

So toasty, instead of finishing that reads list that you said you'd finish you decide to yell at people who are getting annoyed at it.

Unvote, vote: toasty

We need to lynch someone already. We're going to be more productive in getting good reads once we have info.

Wyrd's town, dddp could be scum too.

tierce and glork are town, but really, that should go without saying. Oversoul is also town. Zdenek is also probably town.

hi alchemist.

Vote for toasty.

I'm not voting dramonic anymore. And I explained the vote in 890.

I think town are more likely to prefer posts with content over implosion’s posts.

Look me in the eyes and tell me that you read the entirety of every one of Magna's/tammy's/other wall posters' posts.

I moved my vote back to you because I want a lynch, the dramonic wagon isn't moving, and I still like your wagon. I've explained my votes on all two of the people who i've voted. And why do I have to justify who i'm giving reads on? I'm giving reads as I get them.

Also, a list of people lurking:

DDD, quil, LLD, singer(v/la tho), UN, dram, Wyrd, nexus, oman, nikanor, tsh, GI, implosion (unless he wants to piss me off a little more); this is too much. thats thirteen out of 29.

PEDIT: what you have explained you've explained poorly. You justify reads because its the town thing to do. Yes, but I wrote your section before your vote on me (a fish could've figured that out) and your vote on me just makes you scummier. And the fact that you changed your vote from dram to me does not change my beliefs about you slot, and doesn't in any way change what the dram vote shows. I ISO'd your slot and found sub-par after sub-par statement, and, honestly, thought your posts were more tedious and awful than anything MoI or Tammy have posted. I will at the least skim any long post I see.

Its another reason I like toasty, he's willing to poke at DDD and go *here's somebody*, because he honestly believes there might be scum slipping along in that slot.

You really think it takes any courage to put my name down?

Yes, actually. Considering Toasty is the largest wagon, if he was scum I would easily believe he would hop ship to another large wagon or a more popular lynch wagon. You have no pressure on you, no one really thinks your scum, and its not the most popular wagon to vote. The fact that he is willing to actually poke around and try and find out scum (in this case you), seems pretty pro-town. He isn't just sheeping along.

Finished. You guys seriously need to learn how to back the fuck off. Every time I check the game its some new illogical vote on me that ignores what I say completely. Implosion, UN--learn how to play. Thats not an Ate. Its called being pissed off at all the stupidity in this game. Starting to remind me about why I stopped playing. Also, if you honestly think I can write a long ass opinion piece on all 29 players in the game, know how I solidly feel about their alignments, and respond to every little thing in a reasonable amount of time....ugh. I may not complain about my other commitments as much as Quaoroath or Singer, but if you can give them some time, then you can give me time, too. I posted those 9 reads because they were what I had done, and I didn't know if I would get a chance to finish every read. And honestly, you would probably be voting me if I waited, and would probably had already decided to vote me before I even had my list done.

In order from scummiest to town.

DDD

Implosion: He’s gotten worse with each post, basically. I still don’t know why he’s voting dramonic. No explanation. Why does he explain the vote on me but not the switch to dram? No sense made. Don’t like his long posts suck attitude; I think town are more likely to prefer posts with content over implosion’s posts. I also don’t recall this attitude from him before. The “don’t see Magua votes” comes out of nowhere. May just be a phrasing confusion. Mentions too many people without explaining why, and does not allow anyone to get a grasp on his reads above “I’m voting for this guy.” Last post just threw me over the edge. Of course I’m working on the list. I’m not going to be able to throw it all down in the same time span as a “are you fucking kidding me?” post.

20. Quilford: Stopped doing anything as soon as he didn’t have to defend himself. His “vague, negative feelings” list has no explanations attached, blames lurking on school. Sorry, but that's not going to cut it. Votes me without explaining why his “vague, negative feelings” turned into a vote;
Also, did no one catch the “I don’t know who to vote!” thing? When I started on mafia, that meant the person was probably scum who can’t figure out how to fake a case.

15. MathGirl277/Shmugen: ugh. Really? You are going to harp and focus on things that happened so early? Make something new up, rather than just being a sheep. If I’m going to get crap for my wagon reads early game, then there is no way in hell you should get away with it. Your 3 reads are me, singer, and Ludi. That's just as bad and its like 40 pages in. Who? Hopefully replacement posts soon.

21. GreyICE: Never know what flavor of GreyIce I’m going to get in a game. He seems to be like VOTE KATSUKI every fucking post. Guess what? Saying that is ineffective, and I believe I already attacked others as to why it's a scummy thing to do. I’d say he comes up on the lower end with his banter with katsuki.

LLD

Tierce

singer

14. MaguaofIllusion (MagnaofIllusion + Magua hydra): Don’t understand some of his reads. GreyICE read is odd, since it basically reads like “well, he’s done some scummy things but he’s funny!”; a lot more to say about Tammy than “she’s playing differently” (i.e. Tammy has a ton of content); However, I don’t think he’s spewing BS like some people suggested, and the wagon on him worries me.
(Lurkyland!!)

UN

16. Nexus: Who?

17. Nikanor: Meow?

18. Oman: What?

2. Teleporting Speed Hippos (AurorusVox + PeregrineV hydra): Another super lurky mc lurkerston.

11. Katsuki: Nothing I can say about this slot that hasn’t been said already. I have more problems with the other lurkers, but that doesn’t make his play right.

4. dramonic: seems to have a strong concern over the lore of the game, talked about little else early

Wyrd

Ludi

9. Hinduragi: Explained a little on his earlier, but he’s grown more town on me. I was sketched out after the OS vote, but he explained it well in terms of why he had a problem with the gambit, and why he was unvoting OS later on.

23. SpyreX: Response to MoI convinced me of town status

24. Tammy: My only read that has changed completely. I thought the meta thing was awful, but her more recent posts show much more actual content, and she is putting a clear effort into scum hunting.

6. Gammagooey: singer, kat focus is good; actually gave me a chance to respond.

5. Duplicity (Regfan + Shift hydra): Re-read slot and ended up with more good things to say than bad. They’ve been vocal, have decent reads; good town voice.

1. Alchemist (as an alt of Timeater): leaning town. I disagree with his Glork assessment, but that doesn’t mean scum would write it. I actually disagree with his OS, ludi reads too, but the fact that he put effort into finding out if OS was lying about the virus means he’s probably town.

7. Glork: Also gave me a chance to respond; has been pushing a lot. I of course did not like his reaction to the OS gambit and thought it was hasty, but now scummy per-say. See Tierce.

8. Haze: definitely town. Questions of me were valid, not sheeping; good gut, too.

19. Oversoul: I thought he was town before the gambit, and, regardless of whether said gambit was a good one, it came off as a very protown action.

Zdeneck

short version (for the long-post challenged

Scum (scummiest-->w): DDD, implosion, quilford, schmugen, GreyIce, LLD, (Tierce--special)
Middletown (nulliest-->leaning town) singer, MoI, UN, (Nexus, Oman, Nikanor, TSH--same grp), dramonic, Wyrd, Ludi,
Town(townies-->Sheepable) Hindu, SpyreX, Tammy, Duplicity, Alchemist, Glork, Haze, Oversoul, Zdeneck

I was going to respond to more people in detail, but just reading a page makes me want to throw things and I already wrote this.

hi alchemist.

Vote for toasty.

Like this shitty gem right here. Short, yet I don't want to put effort into something with now effort.

what you have explained you've explained poorly. You justify reads because its the town thing to do. Yes, but I wrote your section before your vote on me (a fish could've figured that out) and your vote on me just makes you scummier. And the fact that you changed your vote from dram to me does not change my beliefs about you slot, and doesn't in any way change what the dram vote shows. I ISO'd your slot and found sub-par after sub-par statement, and, honestly, thought your posts were more tedious and awful than anything MoI or Tammy have posted. I will at the least skim any long post I see.

I haven't justified most of my reads. I can justify them if you really want me to, but I don't generally spend time justifying townreads unless they're under pressure. I've justified my votes for the sake of justifying my votes, so that others know why I'm voting. So really, your statement that i'm justifying votes because it's the town thing to do isn't inaccurate. That's why votes are supposed to be justified. So that others know why you're voting, and so that others can interpret those justifications and decide if they're valid.

It's your fault if you're going to make it sound like you think my vote is still on dramonic. Don't get pissed off over me interpreting your post that way. It's a game :\.

And If you're going to call me scummy for asking people to join the wagon that i'm on... yeah. you can die.

Don't see maguavotes.

One scumteam makes a lot more sense than two. If there's an SK, they probably have a nonstandard win condition too.

You talked about getting short and to the point in one of your posts, could you do that in explaining what about MoI-scum I, and a few others, are misinterpreting

dddp could be scum too.

And given that you think DDD could be scum, do you think it is likely that hypo toasty-scum decided to go out of his way to bus DDD-scum out of the blue

You talked about getting short and to the point in one of your posts, could you do that in explaining what about MoI-scum I, and a few others, are misinterpreting

There really isn't anything specific... I just don't see them as scummy. They're playing about how I'd expect a MoI-Magua hydra to play. I think when I said I didn't see the votes on them, it was in response to their response to Oversoul at the beginning of 1058.

And given that you think DDD could be scum, do you think it is likely that hypo toasty-scum decided to go out of his way to bus DDD-scum out of the blue

Maybe. Probably not. Frankly, this is just a bad question :S. I don't focus on connections on day one. And even if I did, having two scumreads that I don't think are scum together (i mean, it's obvious that the expected answer to your question is 'no') in no way prevents me from voting one of them. And I see toasty as scummier than dddp.

meh, I didn't expect any answer one way or the other, (sorry If you didn't like the question, but I wanted an answer) I just wanted to get where your thinking is at. I don't think it is unreasonable on day one to have a few scum reads, but then if all of them gang vote the same guy maybe you reevaluate your read on that particular player. Things change, etc.

The toasty wagon is filled largely with nullreads, with some townreads and one scumread. My scumreads aren't ganging up and voting anyone.

I wasn't implying that was the case, I was using a hypothetical to illustrate a point. (which in my mind is the low likelyhood of toasty scum voting dddp scum) Which was that sometimes you don't need a flip to change to base interactions off of.

I think the long and short of what I was trying to do here was say that if you think DDDP is scum, maybe toasty voting him is a town-tell and you could come away slowly from your toasty scum read and vote someone else! I really don't think toasty is scum here, and don't want to see him lynched.

Maybe. Probably not. Frankly, this is just a bad question :S. I don't focus on connections on day one. And even if I did, having two scumreads that I don't think are scum together (i mean, it's obvious that the expected answer to your question is 'no') in no way prevents me from voting one of them. And I see toasty as scummier than dddp.

I know you said connection-reads D1 are bad, but do you think they are inherently scummY?

The toasty wagon is filled largely with nullreads, with some townreads and one scumread. My scumreads aren't ganging up and voting anyone.

I find it hard to believe that in my being L-6 you only have one scumread on my wagon.

ToastyToast (L-6) ~ Haze, UberNinja, SpyreX, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Quilford, Gammagooey, Wyrd, implosion, Teleporting Speed Hippos

five people on my wagon are lurkers, 2 of them are following Gammagooey, 1 is you, and then there's spyreX and Haze.
So, basically, I'm getting voted primarily by the people putting the least effort into the game, and only 3 who I think have actually done something.

To be honest, I don't have a large bunch of scum reads on your wagon either. I'd say TSH, and then maaaaaaybe DDD and Haze (and uberninja is just derpy).

I know you said connection-reads D1 are bad, but do you think they are inherently scummY?

No. I just think they're a stupid thing to do.

ToastyToast (L-6) ~

Haze

,

UberNinja

,

SpyreX

,

Debonair Danny DiPietro

,

Quilford

,

Gammagooey, Wyrd, implosion

,

Teleporting Speed Hippos

Colorized for you. DDDP is my only scumread on the wagon. I've mentioned all of the townreads except for gamma. Haven't gotten real opinions on anyone else here.

I think the long and short of what I was trying to do here was say that if you think DDDP is scum, maybe toasty voting him is a town-tell and you could come away slowly from your toasty scum read and vote someone else! I really don't think toasty is scum here, and don't want to see him lynched.

Like i said, i think toasty is scum more strongly than dddp, so etc.

Those are called votes, alchemist. And they pretty clearly haven't reached a consensus.

But to humor you.

Code: Select all

dramonic, Toasty

I know that this isn't your only reason for voting him but that doesn't change that I find your change along with your comments still coming across as incredibly contrived. Also your meta is pointless in this case because the biggest issue we're having with your play isn't so much about the quantity of your posts but rather the content and reads don't seem genuine and you haven't shown any real intention to consider your reads on a deeper level. For instance your suspicion of Alchemist earlier was terrible, we then said we don't think you could read him like that as town and see it as you setting up for a wagon-jump on him if it arisen as mafia, you then said Alchemist-town but no explanation between any of the thought processes.

didn't even see that post about my suspicion on alchemist.
If you think that i'm coming accross as contrived, really nothing i can say about that.
And as I've said, i think multiple times now:

I haven't justified most of my reads. I can justify them if you really want me to, but I don't generally spend time justifying townreads unless they're under pressure.

If you want me to justify a townread, ask.

Nexus is null. I wonder why. He's an okay lynch. Toasty is a better lynch.

I don't like a ML lynch.

Weak play, has done essentially nothing all game. Also a couple of small meta-related things that I'm just noticing now after going over implosion's iso. I can elaborate if such is desired by someone who isn't Alchemist.

I'd like elaboration on the meta-aspects.

Also, do you really think that you've done significantly more than me in this game?

nik is probably town, though.

I, for one, believe nikanor.

Spoiler: Nexus

unvote

Obviously noone else fancies an Alchemist lynch.

Katsuki, stop trying to fake lack of care by giving stupid "hilarious" answers to GI's question.

Of all the people to call out, he chooses Shmugen?

Explain.

TSH that isn't even a goddamn explanation

MoI wagon is bad.

Alchemist wagon would be better. His hop onto the MoI wagon was fucking terrible. Not as bad as Ludi's, though.

Also delayed answer to Katsuki's question.

I think you're faking care to look like you're actually trying to be busy and focus on the game. I'd say it's a bit scummy but not enough to actually be scum.

Dana: I'm still convinced Alchemist is scum, but I need to re-read him. TSH would also be a good lynch candidate.

ASOS Mafia Now I'm going to bed.

Scum (out of): Alchemist, Oman, TSH and Avenging Angel. I don't buy into VCA for the last one.

NOW I'M GOING TO BED.

Singer, you're still voting yourself. What fucking use is that, besides being a massive fucking distraction? I didn't say I didn't CARE about country claims, I MISSED Tierce's country claim. Now that I understand where she's coming from, of course I'm going to fucking protect her.

GI: I already said, it seems to indicate that my protection is some kind of Bodyguardesque role. The Ragnell ability indicates it's something to do with the numbers, and it seems to suggest that once it reaches a certain number, it becomes imbued with the powers of the Goddess, and helps buff my protection. I can then protect someone from a day kill as well as a night kill.

Spoiler: Shmugen - some of these I included because of interaction with GreyIce

Not a single one of you welcomed me. Hurtful.

I'm caught up reading wise, but comprehension of that reading is lagging a touch behind. Basic summary of thoughts:

1. Alchemist - Other than posting style and lackluster attack on Glork, the biggest thing that stands out here is relative to Tierce. Alchemist, why did you think Tierce was a good shot when people thought Oversoul's vig was real?

2. TSH - Not much here. I note a lack of dropped hippo wisdom yesterday and a declared willingness to debate. The exchange of words with Ludi didn't make Ludi look great.

3. DDDP - I feel a bit of your pain with large themes, but I hope you show up sooner rather than later. Slight townread on DDDP for giving no shits about scum win condition.

4. Dramonic - Flavor does not a townie make, nor does voting Oversoul. There's a healthy difference between scum and anti-town. One you lynch, one you vig. Your 'come and get some' attitude doesn't match your content output.

5. Duplicity - Good stuff, relatively easy to follow logic. Post 402 is almost spot on, though we don't agree on Quilford and a few small points.

6. Gamma - I am frightened by your idea that content is just starting around post 895. Other than the slightly changing reason on why Gamma thinks the Toast wagon is bad, this slot pleases me. A, would read again.

7. Glork - Please don't quit the site. I think little else needs saying about this slot. Anyone thinking Glork scum would require a Glork/Tierce wombocombo scum gambit to make their reasoning work, and then we could declare mafiascum over and move to browner pastures.

8. Haze - Middle of the pack null. This started smelling like Haze revving up the bus for Toasty, but the reasoning became more inquisitive and diggy.

9. Hinduragi - His posts, they are so TINY. Good grilling of Oversoul, don't like the making excuses for Uberninja early on. In post 617, promises ability to do solid gold posting. Get hyped and do it!

10. Implosion - This ISO promised much, then had post 890 which gave me a bit of hope, and then nothing. See above Hindu advice.

11. Katsuki - I was excited for like a day when I saw you were on the verge of replacing out only to come back at the last minute and crush my dreams. Conviction is noted, but a case would be nice to give your baseless postulations a base. You've said just less than Implosion in more posts.

12. LLD - Not much of a presence since the waning of the Age of TammyNinja and the waxing of the Age of Oversoul. Post deals are crap and should be treated as such. I like the push on UberNinja early though. What's the theory behind withholding reads?

13. Ludi - No content since the end of Age 1. I'm sorely tempted to sheep Duplicity here, but I don't see a lot. Most of the crap in the ISO is Alchemist related.

14. MoI - Townread. Very unafraid to take the ugly, questionable stances/arguments and drag them to the forefront.

15. MathGirl - That's me!

16. Nexus - Ugh. This post and reading took me hours. At least approximate an effort, you lazy git. This is a Vi game, you know not the treat you are in for.

17. Nikanor - Other than the case on Alchemist and a touch of Oversoul defense, all posts/cases revolve around meta. Tierce finds the cat's meta cases somewhat acceptable, and I generally defer to Tierce regarding meta. Nulltown?

I'm getting tired. These will get shorter/shallower.

18. Oman - Kinda gross. Promises to take a bath to remove grossness and post this weekend.

19. Oversoul - Really gross. Misguided town is putting it lightly, between defending Toasty before Toasty even showed up and thinking he'd be real cool for faking a daykill.

20. Quilford - Not a fan of the list on page 2 at all, though it did spark discussion. I require more than a list of vague feelings. You will supply them to me.

21. GreyICE - This slot is like the Katsuki slot but with more ideas and attempts to make content. Reasoning for this being a popular wagon is out there, I'm sure, but I may have to piece it together tomorrow. How sure were you the dayvig was fake?

22. Singersinger - This is bad. The Tammy vote is bad, the 'ugh this game is hard sheep Glork' is bad, the 'I'm just not into it' is miserable.
VOTE: Singersinger

I have petered out. My apologies, hopefully I will find the time tomorrow to do a little better on these last 5 and finish the last 7. SUPER CLIFFNOTES: Spy and Tammy are complicated, Tierce town, Zdenek possibly town but also complicated, UberNinja/Toast possibly scum but require reading, I hear Fate/Nuwen hydra exists but I could be wrong seeing as there are 4 posts and only 1 has any worth.

10 minute work break quick reaction:

Shmugen, all Dayvigs are fake. Always. Seriously, always.

Anyway, what do you think of the theory that newer posters replacing into a scum slot are try-hard in their attempts to look town, and tend to make long wall posts, but end up having a low content to word ratio (aka a lot of null reads).

Do you think your summaries of TSH, Haze, Katsuki, Ludi, Nexus, Nikanor, or Oman added anything to this game?

If not, why did you post them?

And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.

Meet Shmu.

Did exactly the same as town in MLP.


Not really caught up, super skimming, will be back in Lisbon today.

I think the theory is crap, Grey. I play this game to have fun, lurking is not fun. I have fun by interacting with people, and there's no better way to inject myself into the mix than to talk about everyone.

My reads on that list didn't add a lot to the game, no. They are to spike conversation and are otherwise for my benefit. I attempt to keep a game's events fresh in my mind as they happen, this is difficult when replacing in or when I fall behind. A list helps me get my head on straight and serves as a reference point, a backup if you will, should I fall behind in the future.

Response to Alchemist coming in the afternoon.

And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.

Also, Shmug - When you get a sec, can you point out to me the ugly/questionable stances that MoI have been unafraid to point out and bring to the forefront?

post 595
post 656
post 839
are the three main instances of taking unpopular stances, 'Hey Glork, let's have the alive after N1 discussion, Hey Tierce you're wrong on dayvig use, Hey everyone, Oversoul makes a bit of sense'. The hydra speaks its minds.

1. Alchemist - Other than posting style and lackluster attack on Glork, the biggest thing that stands out here is relative to Tierce. Alchemist, why did you think Tierce was a good shot when people thought Oversoul's vig was real?

Tierce wasn't confirmed town, nor did her posting indicate anything near as such

Sheep detected

So bad shot = confirmed town and anything else flies? Tell me why you felt Tierce was scummy.

Shmugen, all Dayvigs are fake. Always. Seriously, always.

Anyway, what do you think of the theory that newer posters replacing into a scum slot are try-hard in their attempts to look town, and tend to make long wall posts, but end up having a low content to word ratio (aka a lot of null reads).

Do you think your summaries of TSH, Haze, Katsuki, Ludi, Nexus, Nikanor, or Oman added anything to this game?

If not, why did you post them?

Additional point on this, Grey: Of those summaries, how much do you feel TSH, Nexus, or Oman have added to the game? I can't write on what isn't there. For the record, PeregrineV IS in this game as part of TSH.

Now to finish the Great Wall of Shmu.

23. SpyreX - His answers to the pressure put on him by various sources (UN, MaguaoI) have been satisfactory, but only just. I want to call it clear town, but it's not there enough. Remember when I was talking about LLD and I said I hate vote trade deals? I dislike proxy votes too. Giving up your vote is like putting down your pistol in an Old West duel. Spy is correct that this game needs blood. It's pretty bloated already, I can't imagine how bad it would be if the lurkfolk actually tried.

24. Tammy - The personality irks me when someone flips the raeg switch, but the concepts presented seem solid. The town parts of the ISO that stand out are recent, the analysis of the LLD vote deal with Spy and the acceptance that meta is a thing around here and the effort to go to her old home, dig up all kinds of games and do analysis on them. The earlier parts of the ISO kind of blur together, but I think I understand where the idea of voting Tammy early came from.

25. Tierce - Like you needed an excuse to go drinking, that's most likely the biggest lie you've told this game. (Note. If you are actually an alcoholic, I beg your pardon.) That said, the reaction to the fake dayvig seems natural enough to me, had the rage stopped early I might have thought scum. Town up and down, but I'll agree with Tammy here, meta is useful but the whole 'What would Katsuki do' argument makes me slightly ill. It isn't everything. I want to hear more on why you think MaguaoI is scum.

26. ToastyToast - Much has been said to merit the below vote already. Not only does Toast come in and suspect the 3 wagons at the time with no other reads, he continually goes back and asks how he could possibly have reads on others by page 8. A few of these other reads come through around page 40 turning his initial 3 reads into 9 reads out of 28, 5 of these being null and no mention of previous suspect Tammy. Of these reads, only one is scum and that's DDDP of all people. Really? You're reading this game, the same words I'm reading, and you come back with DDDP.

Unvote

, VOTE: ToastyToast

27. UberNinja - *sigh* Crappy attitude, small townlean. I don't think Toasty's initial post was bad enough for scumninja to rev up the bus so soon, mostly. Disinterest level is dildos, cases instead of reflexive outbursts would be nice. Do you still think Tierce is scum after the whole Oversoul thing?

28. Wyrd - It took this hydra 1000 posts to get the ball rolling, but there begins to be content, hallelujah. Fate, do try to do more than just mock Tierce. The Ludi point by Nuwen early makes some sense to me, as does the Ludi defense of Toasty point. Similar amounts of town as UberNinja but with much more promise.

29. Zdenek - I'm sorry to hear about the family emergency. Your early content was inquisitive and decent, hopefully when you return it will continue. I'm going to go with the nullside of town for stubbornness. Going after Glork's Katsuki thing in the midst of the Oversoul fakevig and Glork's pondering of replacement doesn't feel like scum looking for blood in the water.


Whew! Those last six had a lot to them.
In rough summation:
Scum (S-W) Toasty, Ludi? Singer? *Insert Lurkers here*
Null (Scum to Town): *Insert more Lurkers*, DDDP, Alchemist, Nikanor, Haze, LLD, Dramonic, Zdenek, Grey, Wyrd
Town (S-W): Tierce, Glork, Duplicity, Tammy, Gamma, Spy

They struck me as MaguaoI putting himself in the thick of things and pushing points that others might shy away from. I would expect scum to shy away from anything that draws that much unnecessary attention to themselves, especially as point 1 vs Glork was very antagonistic towards a power player who I felt was townish at the time of the post. Reminiscent of a dog barking like crazy at another dog. What's it going to do but get people to throw shoes and tell them to shut up? Yet it happened anyway.

Does either head of the hydra seem to you to be people who act shy when scum so much so that speaking their opinion on something that is a stance taken in the past an indicator of alignment?

Also, I noticed in your reads that you said Duplicity made a lot of sense in his reads post. What is your read on them? You don't say.

Magna, no. Magua I couldn't speak for, I am not a meta scholar. Your point is taken. Giving MaguaoI a quick rereread, I also appreciate the wanting to vig Dramonic due to content lack. I am for the potential vig pool subsisting of those below the mod in activity level, say from Nikanor down? Excepting Wyrd and myself, of course.

As for Duplicity, yes I do have a townread.

I forgot to throw Magna into my summary thing.

In rough summation:
Scum (S-W) Toasty, Ludi? Singer? *Insert Lurkers here*
Null (Scum to Town): *Insert more Lurkers*, DDDP, Alchemist, Nikanor, Haze, LLD, Dramonic, Zdenek, Grey, Wyrd, Spy
Town (S-W): Tierce, Glork, Duplicity, Tammy, Gamma, MaguaoI

@Toasty - I have two mostly solid scumreads and one decent scumread, yes. The difference between mine and your early ones that I'm voting you for is that mine looked at everyone after a large amount of game went by and yours looked at the 3 largest wagons early and looked at no one else. Your biggest complaints about DDDP seem to be his giving his vote to Spy and not voting Dram when he says he would vig Dram if given a chance. While not expressly stated, he gave his vote to Spy before your entrance, and if he likes where his vote is, his 'I would vig Dram' is fine. Incidentally, his vote is on you. Could this have anything to do with your scumread on him? Your four largest scumreads are all on your wagon.

And no, I try not to forget early play. One of my favorite things about forum mafia is the inability to delete old posts. Someone has to remember what came before and not let scum slip by.

Code: Select all

ToastyToast
Ludi
Lurkers

A reminder to you, Glork, to do a case on MoI.

Unvote

I'll take a look at Implosion as soon as possible, probably at lunch.

I think a country claim would be beneficial. There are pros and cons to any plan, but the pros probably outweigh the cons on this one. If MoI has powers related to country, it's likely others do as well. Con wise, if the scum are going after country leaders as theorized, if a leader dies, the scum could ignore everyone else who claimed that country.

I'm expecting blue number shenanigans at 28 or 32.

Angel makes a strong point regarding SpyreX's whole nation thing, the WIFOM would be far more trouble than its worth. Welcome and thank you for taking over a less than productive slot.

I would think that MoI would be a little less caustic today. One scum down on day 2 is being in decent shape, people, keep your heads in the game.

VOTE: MagisterLudi.

Among the prodded, I want to hear from Dram, Nik, and Oman the most. Apologies for needing a prod. Tierce, I don't comprehend what you're saying with the Ludi unvote.

I can go for a lurker lynch if Ludi isn't going to get the axe. Oman, Nexus, Katsuki, take your pick.

In the same vein as the childish arguments where telling someone to be quiet constitutes being loud, Alchemist, cut it out with the fluff posts. The Blue Number (Blumber?) will come calling.

Consider Katsuki struck from my list of want to lynch today for now.

Spoiler: GreyIce - I left out the KATSUKI I CAN READ YOU stuff

Grey: Read 430, 436, 437, 448, and then vote Toasty.

Okay, yeah, his top 3 suspicions are the top 3 people being wagoned, and he's doing these useless walls of content that don't contain anything.

I'd hang him for #555 where he literally posts an entire wall with no content though.

Vote: ToastyToast

@GI

Who's scum bro?

Who am I voting, bro?

Hi guys, this is called blind wagoning. It's..it won a few mafia games a few years back, but not by this dude.

GreyICE, you are just...just woeful.

Unvote, Vote: GreyICE

. For being scum by defending this "vote".

Really?

'cause I'm not blind wagoning, and I'm following Glork.

Which is generally not the dumbest thing ever to do, especially if you don't have strong reads.

So you have a strong town read on Toasty, yes?

It wasn't useless. I responded to every persons questions and more. So, I basically did exactly what was asked of me. "Oh, HOW USELESS!" Fuck you.

But what sort of responses were these?

Hm. I'd say singer's Tammy vote drama is just as bad as UN's. If she keeps up with the excuses and the Scotland thing, red lights. start caring or I'm going to assume there's another reason you don't care.

i don't really get where all the Ludi hate is coming from.

Again, I'm going to vote for people I find suspicious over people I don't have an opinion on, especially when its my first post of the game. In addition, all three of them were at like L-9, which is hardly a wagon. People who have votes on them are going to attract more attention than people without them for anyone who's trying to catch up 8 pages and get their first vote in.

How does an unprompted soft-claim make someone obvtown? How does her reaction make her obvtown?

BlahBlahBlah meta blah blah omg paranoia mafia blah

Agree with UN that most of the Alchemist votes are lazy

Content

THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN ANY

UN, Glork already unvoted and I believe his frustration to be sincere. It seems to be going a bit far as scum if he's faking it, and this isn't even mentioning the claims. Glork is pretty obvtown. Melodramatic or not, he's obviously not having fun right now and you can't berate him for wanting to think it over.

And good, now that Oversoul isn't getting wagoned put some votes on the people that need them-Ludi/Implosion are the ones that immediately come to mind.

-Shift

I dunno, I don't have a strong scum read on Ludi. His last infinity posts have been in this thread, and I get the feeling he's overwhelmed and sticking to his 2 targets (Alchemist and Tammy) and trying to get good reads on them.

Implosion is a good lurker wagon, but hey, you know who else hasn't posted much? Katsuki! And Katsuki is scum!

Join justice

Implosion is a good lurker wagon, but hey, you know who else hasn't posted much? Katsuki! And Katsuki is scum!
Join justice

I would include you right up in the "I haven't posted much" group. And you complain that I'm not providing content. sheesh.

You've provided lots of words. You're light on content.

Words are not content, content is not words, and your posts have been a lot of vague justifications, cheerleading, and general 'running commentary,' with no real concrete reasoning or thought process.



Oversoul, listen to Uber.

Is Tammy pushing a Tierce lynch?

DA FUQ?

Please someone actual dayvig Zdenek.

Katsuki still needs death.

Shmugen, all Dayvigs are fake. Always. Seriously, always.

Anyway, what do you think of the theory that newer posters replacing into a scum slot are try-hard in their attempts to look town, and tend to make long wall posts, but end up having a low content to word ratio (aka a lot of null reads).

Do you think your summaries of TSH, Haze, Katsuki, Ludi, Nexus, Nikanor, or Oman added anything to this game?

If not, why did you post them?

Hey Tammy.

Crazy ass Vi game

24 motherfuckers to mow through

Unlikely to be one scum team

Discuss.

21. GreyICE: Never know what flavor of GreyIce I’m going to get in a game. He seems to be like VOTE KATSUKI every fucking post. Guess what? Saying that is ineffective, and

I believe I already attacked others as to why it's a scummy thing to do.

I’d say he comes up on the lower end with his banter with katsuki.
...

11. Katsuki: Nothing I can say about this slot that hasn’t been said already. I have more problems with the other lurkers, but that doesn’t make his play right.

short version (for the long-post challenged

Scum (scummiest-->w): DDD, implosion, quilford, schmugen, GreyIce, LLD, (Tierce--special)
Middletown (nulliest-->leaning town) singer, MoI, UN, (Nexus, Oman, Nikanor, TSH--same grp), dramonic, Wyrd, Ludi,
Town(townies-->Sheepable) Hindu, SpyreX, Tammy, Duplicity, Alchemist, Glork, Haze, Oversoul, Zdeneck

Yeah, lemme explain something to you.

I replaced in because I got a PM saying 'Mafia Behind the Maiden could use a replacement and LLD is playing in it, come join!'

I offered to replace in Saturday, with the caveat that I was driving back from vacation all of Sunday, and had a job interview monday morning, so wouldn't be posting until monday afternoon.

I got the job and they needed me to start immediately. So yeah, I expected to have about 1 billion times more time than I've had. I'm moderating one game and in two games, and my time on this site the priority goes to the game I'm moderating. I read this game when I can - and the endless walls don't help (I'm even farther behind on the other game, if it's any consolation). So fuck you if you think I'm lurking. I worked friggin six hours on my Saturday, and what do I do when I get home? Read this game.


Now, Toasty, you're going to reconcile the above for me. In order:

1) Attacking Katsuki is scummy
2) Katsuki's play is terrible awful
3) You failed to stick Katsuki anywhere in the town scum list.

So where does Kats go? If attacking him is awful, I'd expect strong town, so why is he there? If he's somewhere else, why is attacking him awful?

Toasty's a bad lynch, guys. He's stepping up his game to a more-than-acceptable level.

A few pages ago, Glork wrote:

Grey: Read 430, 436, 437, 448, and then vote Toasty.

A little while ago, Glork wrote:

Toasty... I don't know. I hate his suspicions and "null" on like everything else, but once I kicked his ass a little, he actually started to do something.

Soooo... basically you were trying to get me to vote a pressure vote because having the top 3 wagons as scum reads is shitty?

Because dude, he still has Tierce as a scum read, and you're not telling me that someone reading this game should have Tierce as a scum read.

Ludi is town

Fate is probs town, though I'd feel better if that dick Nuwen was posting

Scum be lurkin, yo.

This is probably true.


I posit that in any game above, like... 22-24 players, any vigilante is required to vig people who are in the bottom-quarter of posters. Hippos, Haze, Oman, implosion... all of them can eat a bullet.

The cutoff is at DDD for a reason, I assume.

I disliked the fakevig reaction because 1)I thought it was unecessarily overaggressive 2) seemed like a poor sport, which I associate with upset scum over upset town 3)the whole obvtown thing spiked up here. In other games I have been in, a fakevig may piss town off, but not to the point of bullying or loss of all logic.

This reasoning is total horseshit, but at least there's some reason Tierce is still scummy.

...

Apparently town doesn't get pissed and rage.

...

I agree with nikky on Ludi.

One good turn deserves another.

vote: implosion

Beats the shit out of a ludi wagon. Apparently I can scream until I'm blue in the face about Katsuki, and nothing happens. Fate, you kill his sorry ass for me if I die night one, okay?

Vote: Quilford

Sure why not. He's actually a good wagon, unlike Ludi or MoI.

Anybody wanna lynch Nexus?

What, captain 6 poster?

I'd rather do Oman, but I could do for a lurker lynch.

Oh for gods sake

Don't you assholes dare say that you don't see it

His scum reads were the largest wagon at the time
And the one person in the game attacking him

THE LARGEST WAGON AND THE ONLY PERSON ATTACKING HIM

COULD THESE SCUM READS GET ANY LAZIER?

FUCK YOU ALL

VOTE: NEXUS

HE'S PROBABLY TOWN

BECAUSE YOU'RE IDIOTS

BUT I DON'T GIVE A FUCK

THERE ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?

OH YEAH
LIKE I GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOU THINK TIM
I DON'T SERIOUSLY GIVE A FUCKING SHIT
SO SUCK MY COCK


SERIOUSLY YOU REALIZE NO ONE IN THE ENTIRE GAME HAS GIVEN ME ANYTHING RESEMBLING AN ADEQUATE EXPLANATION OF WHY KATSUKI ISN'T BEING LYNCHED

BUT WE'RE GOING TO WAGON LUDI OR NEXUS BECAUSE THAT'S THE COOL THING TO DO

FUCK YOU

LUDI AT LEAST IS DEFINITELY TOWN

AND IF YOU FUCKING TRY AND RIDE MY NUTS LIKE ANYTHING YOU SAY MATTERS

I'M GONNA FUCKING GET SERIOUS ON YOUR FACE

Lol, lessee.

He hasn't posted in 100 days

So we have no idea of his alignment

It's like 2 scum dead to like 3 town.


Yeah, we need people like that to not be wasting oxygen.

vote: nexus

If you are a mislynch bro, you done nothing to show us this.

YAY SINGER IS SCUM

OR SO FUCKING WORTHLESS SHE NEEDS TO DIE

QUICK SINGER ANALYZE MY REACTION

VIG ANALYZE HER REACTION TO A BULLET TONIGHT

Please don't hammer until I've gotten people to answer my request for nation members.

Nexus, you're at L-2 by my count. Full claim, please.

If it hasn't happened by now why do you think it will happen any time soon?

I'm fairly certain there are people who haven't seen the request yet.

I seriously doubt that is the reason; furthermore if you believe that to be the case why haven't you dragged forward your request on each page you instead of reposting it the once as far as I can remember.

Not sure where I stand on Nexus' claim; would like to see the evidence others have asked for and more input from Nexus before deciding one way or another.

If there's a gust, does your avatar face in a different direction?

@GreyICE:

Hi. I'd like a scumread who's not in the set (Katsuki, Oman, Nexus), please and thank you.
Oh, while I'm here, I'd like to know if you think Lady Lambdadelta is town or scum.

SingerSigner needs to die, for her self-vote, shitty content, and general 'I dare you to lynch me.' It'd be fucking amazing if Nexus flipped scum here, because it'd explain her giving up/AtE post (Signer giving up makes NO SENSE from what I know of her. Whining, sucking, and generally flailing about, sure. Giving up? Nah).

Other than that, it's time to start culling the herd. Dramonic, Hinduragi (he rubs me the wrong way), Glork, UBERNINJA, Dana/Zdenek, and the obvious.

LLD is... I dunno. She's whining up a storm, but she'd happily scumplain about something for as long as she could. She's calling me a good vig shot though, so I'd return the favor ^_^

---

@GreyICE:

It's not so much that I have any particular worry of dying in this game, it's the fact that we're not going to lynch Ike at this stage. Oman/Avenging Angel replacements may CC Ike, sure, but in the meantime

you don't lynch Ike

. You seem to be pushing for Nexus's lynch or at least trying to convince Glork to hop back on, without voting for Nexus yourself. What's with this? Why are you playing devil's advocate?
(Though I guess that UberNinja is the one and only of my townreads I would slaughter with no regrets, so carry on god's work there.)

You hit the nail on the head.

Assuming the very limited doctor doesn't die, what day is his lynch back on the table? Because mechanics or not, no way does Vi let every major character be town.

I am very open to lynching nexus today, in case you're wondering. Two days ago I wanted to wait and see. I waited. Am I seeing?

Okay, fair.

The vig should vig from this group if Nexus flips scum:

Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gammagooey, SpyreX, Nikanor, danakillsu, UberNinja, kanyeknowsbest

Scratch Nikanor actually, he's probs town.

If Nexus flips town I'd love to see Oman dead

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro.

This is our lynch for today. Speedwagon please and thanks.

Hells yes.

Vote: DDD

For a motherfucking lousy soft claim of a potentially confirmable ability in a game where scum doesn't have to live through LyLo (since we could lose well before "LyLo")?

Why the fuck would anyone do that, DDD?

Assuming you're not an idiot, you're deliberately claim stalling at a time when you KNOW scum would claim stall.

Why?

See, I keep hearing that scum would want to stall the game and not being scum I have no fucking idea why that is. I mean there's the ultimate war mechanic which tells me absolutely nothing and then there's been a random daykill except it might be from the possible SK who just died and/or which might be related to time somehow but I don't know either way being that I don't have control of the kill.

And maybe you noticed but I didn't want to claim at all, so now I'm going to try to claim as little as possible because I don't want to claim at all, and when that doesn't work because you and yours wear your pants on your heads and aren't actually trying to read me, I'll eventually make the claim that will cause my wagon to disintigrate and I'll be even more disgusted that it came to that. Ta da. So how about we skip the last phase of that and you unvote.

How about we lynch you and you flip scum and we party?

I'll ignore the first, second, and fifth lines since they don't actually say anything useful and instead note that I never threatened you; the owning your vote comment was a positive in comparison to letting someone else own your vote and I said you were in the middle of all my non-town reads. If calling you the sixth or seventh person I'd lynch is a threat, it's a rather indirect and weak one.

No threatening me with this bullshit idea that you'll flip town and "I will be sorry for voting an awesome town power role." Like how nexus tried to threaten me with the "I'm a doctor and Ike" bullshit yesterday.

Vote: DDD

I am 100% convinced that UberNinja and LLD did not concoct some amazing plan to match claims in their Quicktopic. Meaning at best 1 of these 2 is scum.

Were I going to vote...

um...

*sigh*

I like LLD more, so I'd probably vote Uber, but based on gameplay coin flip.

She was on Nexus exactly long enough for it to be a bus. Yes, honey, you bus like a madman, I am aware of this.

Uber, otoh has done jack.

But my initial vote?

Oh I like that one.

On that note, it's not Tierce. You've got to be 100% fucking retarded to lurk-read along with a day phase, use your ability on someone, then come in and start discussing it.

Yes, obvious town remains obvious town -_-

It's you, isn't it?

[singersigner]

Oh, well that's gay.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tierce, I need you to explain something to me.

Earlier in the game, you said something about how if Nailah was scum, all the Crimeans were town because they are Beorc and not Laguz?

Why is this a valid assumption given Branded characters?

[Tierce]

If it's Nailah, the cleared Crimeans (unless they are scum with LLD) are cleared. That means that Gamma and Hindu didn't touch Glork.

please clarify this

Nailah isn't Crimean. Crimea is a beorc (human) nation, Nailah is a laguz (shapeshifter) queen. Being Crimeans, Nikanor and Gamma are obviously not Nailah.

I wasn't clearing them from being scum, I was clearing them from being Nailah (i.e. the ones responsible for petrifying Glork) due to their non-laguz nature. Which is irrelevant now since Nailah has already flipped.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh, I thought you were saying all Crimean were town and I can name at least 1 Crimean who is Branded.

Never mind then. (Bonus points if you guess who I'm thinking of Tierce~)

[Nikanor]

Oh, I thought you were saying all Crimean were town and I can name at least 1 Crimean who is Branded.

Never mind then. (Bonus points if you guess who I'm thinking of Tierce~)

Which Crimean is Branded and fights for Daein? I cannot think of any.

[Tammy]

More IoA I want to look at and make sense of. Yes, Duplicity was scum, but self-aligned, so his reads were true and he was killed by the scum team. CES said in White Flag that town-misguided Regfan can be a boost to a scum team, and that's absolutely true, so for him to die night 2, eh...something here might be worth looking into at any rate. (Again, just pooling some stuff of interest that I want to look at and analyze later...this might come of nothing.)

Spoiler: Duplicity

The implosion-scum flip solidified a lot of my town reads. Also as Shift said I'm fairly confident in a lot of scum being on the Quilford wagon to save what seemed to be the inevitable lynch on Implosion and while I normally dislike VCA I think it'll be highly telling in this specific case (Also no MoI, this doesn't mean that I want you spamming up all my future games asking me to comment on your VCA analysis). I've coloured in green my strong town reads and flipped confirmed town and scum. If you want a strong town read explained just ask though most of the reasons behind them I went through yesterday.

Spoiler: VC at day end with reads attached

Quilford

(LYNCH) ~

Alchemist, Glork

, Debonair Danny DiPietro,

Gammagooey

,

implosion

,

Wyrd

,

danakillsu

, singersigner, SpyreX,

Tierce

, Teleporting Speed Hippos,

Tammy

, GreyICE, Magister Ludi, Hinduragi

implosion (L-10)

~

Duplicity, ToastyToast,

Nikanor,

MaguaofIllusion

, Lady Lambdadelta

MaguaofIllusion

(L-12) ~ Katsuki, Oman, UberNinja

ToastyToast

(L-13) ~ Haze,

Quilford

Not Voting: Nexus, dramonic, Shmugen

So that leaves the scum on the wagon to include some of DDD, Singer, SpyreX, TSH, GI, Ludi, Hind. Of those I have weaker town reads on DDD, Singer, TSH and Hind though I'll need to assign time to re-read through them to make sure I'm not missing anything there. It means that there's very likely scum inside of Ludi, SpyreX and GreyICE though and that's probably the best place to lynch today. Of the wagon includes Nikanor, LLD, Kats, Oman, UN, Nexus, Dram and Shmugen. Of those I have weaker town reads on Nikanor, UN and Dram which means scum is probably inside of LLD (I remembered the timing of her implosion vote coming across as bad), Kats, Oman, Nexus and Shmugen. I'd probably prefer a lynch of LLD/Nexus in the off wagon players before anyone else there.

Vote: Ludi

(PS: See Magua, I'm not always wrong!)

Ludi, can you explain for me two things 1) Why you believed Implosion was a bad lynch in Post 1440 and 2) Why you stated that you'd ISO him in Post 1518 and never followed through on it. Also while you're at it post a summary of your reads for me.

LLD, again I don't see how you could have been confused about what my post was about unless you skimmed it especially since the vote count I was talking about was in the spoiler and looking at the other names mentioned as 'off' and 'on' wagon would have given away exactly what I was talking about. Regarding Hind though I remember Shift having a scum-read on him near game start and about that time in the game I didn't disagree with him however a lot of little things make me think he's town, for instance Post 834 is not something I see coming from scum and I like his strong town read on Alchemist.

The similaries are: Tammy, Singer, Tierce, Gamma, SpyreX, DDD, Wyrd, Alchemist, Ludi.

Tammy, Tierce, Alchemist, Gamma are obvtown, Wyrd is confirmed town. So put them to the side and you're left with Singer, SpyreX, DDD, Ludi.

I think the only motivation was wanting to joke around, don't think there's anything deeper to it. If you're honestly leaning towards him being scum though I suggest you look specifically at Implosion/Niks interaction in Post 1525, Post 1526, Post 1527 and Post 1528 because that doesn't read like partners to me at all.

Lets see; scum: TSH, Oman, Dana, and Alchemist (though no one agrees with me on alchemist. Maybe at this point he's just annoyed me too much)
top town reads; SpyreX, Tierce, Glork, Toasty

I'm not sure what exactly you want and if you want more, but thats where i'm at.

Was hoping to see a little more reads but I'll settle for an explanation behind the Oman scum-read and the SpyreX town-read.

Anybody wanna lynch Nexus? Still not really understanding hte massive amount of Ludihate. Can someone please bullet-point the reasons he is scum?

I could certainly swing for Nexus but I'd want to talk to Shift about it first. Really the main reason I have for Ludi being scum is that a lot of his posting earlier in the game came across as unnatural and had a lot of fluff and filler, his attack and read on Alchemist comes across as contrived and he soft-pushed away from Implosion and Implosion did a similar thing towards Ludi. With that said I'm nowhere near confident in him being scum, in fact all my scum reads at this point are incredibly muddled up and I'm having trouble putting them in some form of order of strongest to weakest due to it. Pretty much here's where I am:

Strong Town Reads:

MoI, Glork, Alchemist, Tierce, Toasty, Tammy, Gamma, Nikanor, Dana, Hind, DDD.

Weak Town Reads (S->W):

Dramonic, TSH, Grey, Singer.

Null Reads:

Shmugen, UN, Oman, Avening, SpyreX.

Scum Reads:

LLD, Ludi, Nexus, Kats.

UN, the "I always read Gamma wrong and I read him as town so he must be scum" argument is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

@Duplicity

– if we are going to lynch an non-contributing lurker let’s make it Katsuki or Oman please.

Consider it somewhat meta but I think after Nexus's failure as scum in Ponybash this sort of play and lurking from him is exactly what he'd do as scum which makes him by far the best lynch inside the lurkers. I wouldn't oppose a Kats lynch either I suppose but I'm not feeling Oman-Scum right now, it's an incredibly weak reason but I found his "I haven't played for ages why are people sheeping me!" comment earlier a very slight town-tell. Also DDD is town, his back/forth with SpyreX is a town-tell.

An for oman scum, it's because he hasn't really DONE anything. His first couple posts contain a vote on Tierce and not much followup, and then he segue's into voting GreyICE and leaving his vote there until the MoI wagon comes roaring along. Even though he has 15 posts, none of them really do anything or attempt to convince the rest of the players in the game that who he is pushing on is scum, and I find that mentality and posting style more likely to come from scum than town.

I understand your SpyreX read and it's something I've been tossing up myself, I think overall I treat his whole 'I have no country' claim as a weak town-tell but that combined with his play which has been fairly lackluster leaves him sitting around null. What I do not understand is how your Oman scum read reasoning doesn't relate to Kates, Nexus and a few other people are doing the same thing or at least something highly similar. So why is he scum over them?

This is the problem I have with people voting me. I don't know what you mean by 'unnatural', as that just how I have posted this game, and I don't think I had a lot of fluff and filler, and certainly not more than anyone else in the game. I think I asked someone to show me who was the bastion of no fluff filler posting that I am being compared to that makes me woefully inadequate, and I don't think that response was forthcoming.

I don't think I soft pushed away from implosion. I said I he wasn't a good wagon, isoed him, thought he was town, and then left it. I am still surprised he flipped scum. I can't speak for what implosion did, but if you can point out exactly what you're talking about we can sort it out.

I can't describe unnatural too well, at least not at the moment. The person that you asked to show how you've been fluffing and filling was me, and I answered it to have no response from you to it at all, see; Post 493. As for why you found Implosion town I cannot grasp or understand that, literally nothing he did even seemed an inch town and his conversation and back and forth with Toasty was so bad that it was almost a scum-claim, your comment of 'dont like his wagon' and no future comment on it looks like avoiding a team-mates lynch, that's the problem I have with it. The Implosion thing is Post 1070, his addressing of your wagon is similar to that of yours to him, it's an avoidance of voting each other by stating dislike of the other persons wagon with no reasoning attached whatsoever.

That wasn't exactly my question. You called my attack on alchemist 'contrived', and I'd like to know what about it you thought was particularly wrong or out of place.

Ok, we've gone over this before once for the record but I'll do it again. Your attack reads as an OMGUS, it's you attacking him when he suggests you as scum and it looks like silencing a weaker player by insisting he's scum and therefore attempting to decredit his arguments through it.

I'd bet on the day-kills either being 1) Randomly determined in an attempt to speed the game up or 2) Done by a third party, vig doesn't make sense there at all as they'd just claim and give us a guarenteed second lynch a day. Also Shmugen scum flip increases the odds that Tammy, MoI, Hind, GreyICE, Toasty and Singer are town. Also increases the odds of Kats being scum. And Oman, he takes no stance on him whatsoever. Oh also TSH is town. Really like their latest reads posts.

Right now I'm;

Strong Town Reads:

MoI, Glork, Alchemist, Tierce, Toasty, Tammy, Gamma, Nikanor, Dana, Hind, DDD, TSH, Singer, GreyICE

Null Reads

: UN, Avening, SpyreX, Dramonic

Scum Reads:

LLD, Ludi, Nexus, Kats, Oman.

PEdit: Hey GreyICE and Alchemsist, stop being fuckwits, you're both town so lets not get into a stupid tunnel on each other.

Strong Town Reads: MoI, Glork, Alchemist, Tierce, Toasty, Tammy, Gamma,

Nikanor, Dana, Hind, DDD,

TSH,

Singer, GreyICE

Also how the fuck can you have a null read on Spyre, reg, Thats fishy as fuck

Stealing internet from some library that's somehow in the area while I'm waiting for a train so I'll try and go into these briefly, if you want one elaborated on more just ask and I'll do it tomorrow. Nikanor is town from a bunch of reasons but the largest of those is his back-and-forth with Implosion that I linked you to earlier makes him obv-town, Dana is based on finding Zdenek town though Danas play has been shit so far. Hind is town from his claim + the fact that he/implosion/shmugen don't work together as scum and I actually think I elaborated on this read for you earlier as well. I found DDD's conversation with SpyreX a town-tell, perhaps not as strong as most of my other town-reads but still fairly strong. GreyICE/Shmugen was something that's mostly based on interactions between the two - GI shat on MoI's town-read of him and given that Shumgen is apparently scum-boss don't think he'd attempt to kill any town-cred that he's given from other players. Singer is eh, partially similar to MoI earlier; I think her posts are so bad earlier that they're more likely to come from town-that doesn't give a fuck-her than from scum, also Shmugens vote on her makes me somewhat doubt them being partners.

And the null read on SpyreX is because I liked his 'i have no country' claim but I still find his contuined suspicion of Tammy and a lot of his scumhunting to be hollow - though I've liked his posts since the Shmugen flip. Pretty much just not confident either way in him to take a solid stance.

Hate to say it but Ludis town, his entire reaction towards Shmugens death re; Him being Micah came across as genuine shock and don't think it's what he'd fake as mafia, also think Shmugen agreeing with our scum read on Ludi over Implosion was probably to push the wagon towards town rather than partner.

Singers self-vote is ugh, think it's probably a town-tell though as is her 'multiple countries' claim. She should replace out instead of acting self-defeatist. Also Dana is an idiot, no doubt about that, but he's town and I think his 'i got a pm about MoI' fits perfectly with his questioning on them earlier today, he's not even for policy vigging, we have enough useless-scummy/null players to be dealt with. Nexus lynch is still awesome, Oman lynch is a decent alternative.

Really? Because 'Good job doctor' posts are like 50% from scum, 25% from the doctor himself. And the doctor in this case is a serial killer...

Understand your point. Disagree with your conclusion. It's the sort of post I expect from him actually.

Similarly, where can this conversation be found?

Starts around Post 1747 and ends around Post 1759.

My motivation for this game was killed by the Nexus wagon stalling, I'd much rather just lynch scum today rather than postpone it to another day and if by some slim chance he is town I don't see scum shooting him at all meaning we're just proloning the inevitable.

Oh and Alchemist; Dramonic is probstown but being replaced, DDD is town, Nexus can die, GI is town, Toasty is obvtown, Dana is town, UN can die later and LLD is someone I'd change to if people continue not to jump back on this Nexus lynch. So all in all most of your list sucks.

Hindu scum btw

No, he's town. Eyes on the prize and focus on getting LLD or Oman lynched.

[Tierce]

Not really--I discard 3rd party reads. They are not necessarily telling the truth during the day, because they don't want to bite a bullet. Duplicity were (rather obviously) not bulletproof (enough? could have been strongman etc.), so they had to lie and lie down and act like it was none of their business. Their ACTIONS show their true reads, not whatever came out on the hydra's posts.

Of course Tammy will go and call me scummy and omg-DDDP-is-not and disregard this, but hey.

[Vi]

Vote Count XLII:

Soren
Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-6) ~ Lady Lambdadelta, ToastyToast
Gammagooey (L-7) ~ singersigner
Nikanor (L-7) ~ Hinduragi

Not Voting:

Teleporting Speed Hippos, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gammagooey, Glork, Katsuki, Magister Ludi, Nikanor, Tammy, Tierce, danakillsu

--With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

74

[Tammy]

You know, Tierce, for someone who doesn't want people to assume things about you...like lack of intelligence and what not, you sure do spend quite a bit of time precalling what others are going to say.

Sure, I was going to say I wasn't interested enough in this game on day 3 when I had posted a couple times in another game and didn't here - even though I hadn't logged on but for a minute one night and didn't know this game had opened back up the night I did and didn't even log on the next day - but you're omniscient so you know what I'm going to say or think...sure. why not.

Did you look at Duplicity? Let's see. Scum read on Implosion and attempt to get us to lynch Implosion day one, apparently killed Implosion night one, since we can now believe the town-tracker UN from that night. Later decided that Shmugen wasn't town - scum. Worked to get Nexus lynched day two - scum.

Which one of their reads did they hold back on again?

They did have GreyIce as a townish read, though it was weak at first and later moved to stronger based on his actions.

So, yeah, we'll go with your thing that 3rd party reads are complete crap. I've actually experienced an opposite phenomenon wherein they are actually quite honest. And, we have no idea what his win-con was. So, since he quite rightly identified and tried to get lynched two of the scum team and said his town read eroded on Shmugen, I'm going to go ahead and place some stock in his reads being what he actually thought because if he was actually trying to lie and lay low, he was doing a

very bad job at it

.

Totally do not get the last part of your post. Nor do I have any reason why you're bringing DDD into it. And, I think it's rather funny that you try to condescendingly act like it's okay for you to have a potential scum read on me, which should at least be shaken by my play a little, and think it's out of the question for me to question your actions. Your actions to me read far more scum-minded than anything I've done or said, but hey...it's pretty easy to discredit my bit of research I suppose when you do things like discuss flavor, keep records of people's actions, and post vote counts. Yeah, you're totes town, and I'm an idiot to see that.

[Tammy]

^^^Should say "I'm an idiot not to see that"

I aslo think it's pretty ironic that you accuse TSH of having confirmation bias with regards to DDD when I look at the way you've behaved towards me this game, if you're town. I guess it's a lot easier to point out when someone else is wrong than to accept when you might be wrong yourself, eh?

[Tierce]

it's rather funny that you try to condescendingly act like it's okay for you to have a potential scum read on me, which should at least be shaken by my play a little

So you're not reading the posts in which I choose to dismiss you as town. Alright, Tammy. Go on.

Yes, I did look at Duplicity. Self-Aligned. That does not mean their goal is to lynch scum. You don't know their wincon either, so stop assuming they would do things as if hey were town. They were not a town vig of any kind.

And no, your experience with third-party does not match mine, apparently--I did talk with Vi about her play as limited-shot, non-BP SK after ERM. This might not be similar to Duplicity's play, but you're acting like their reads should be important without taking them with a serious, serious grain of salt--for that, you should be looking at dead TOWN who are good scumhunters, not Duplicity, because you don't know their intent.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh, I thought you were saying all Crimean were town and I can name at least 1 Crimean who is Branded.

Never mind then. (Bonus points if you guess who I'm thinking of Tierce~)

Which Crimean is Branded and fights for Daein? I cannot think of any.

Try Soren. At least I think he's Crimean IIRC.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

(Or at the very least, Soren is the "true prince of Daein" so flavor wise...)

(then again, Ike was apparently a Fakeclaim so who knows.)

[Glork]

No, both Hindu and I would die if I'm targeted. I don't have a bodyguard, he's a one way lover to me. My only protection is being able to leave.

But if the scums are looking for 1-2 more people on The List, and neither of you are on it, they probably won't waste a nightkill on you, especially when so many people are cleared.



Two points on the whole Tammy and Hindu thing.
Tammy should confirm herself today. I think there's VERY little downside.

Hindu should attach himself to someone extremely questionable, so that if the scum want a 2-for-1, they have to eliminate another potential (mis)lynch target. I haven't decided WHO I want Hindu to target yet. Tammy's not a terrible choice. I've also thought about having him pick Toasty, Ludi, Nik, or Singer. Of those five, I'm leaning

slightly

towards Nik, but it's pretty up-in-the-air.

[Tierce]

Glork, are you drunk?

This is what they've claimed: Hindu is one-shot. He's attached to Tammy, he doesn't die if she commutes, and she can't commute on consecutive phases.

[Tammy]

it's rather funny that you try to condescendingly act like it's okay for you to have a potential scum read on me, which should at least be shaken by my play a little

So you're not reading the posts in which I choose to dismiss you as town. Alright, Tammy. Go on.

Yes, I did look at Duplicity. Self-Aligned. That does not mean their goal is to lynch scum. You don't know their wincon either, so stop assuming they would do things as if hey were town. They were not a town vig of any kind.

And no, your experience with third-party does not match mine, apparently--I did talk with Vi about her play as limited-shot, non-BP SK after ERM. This might not be similar to Duplicity's play, but you're acting like their reads should be important without taking them with a serious, serious grain of salt--for that, you should be looking at dead TOWN who are good scumhunters, not Duplicity, because you don't know their intent.

Totally read that Tierce. You said you were willing to ignore me on the basis of Glork and Hindu. Still think it's rather amusing that you don't want people to question your intelligence and you use phrases like "willing to dismiss you as town." If you want other people to give you respect, you might want to start treating others with respect as well. I realize you've got this "I'm better than everyone else except the idols of mafia I choose to revere" thing going on, but I'm not impressed. And don't bother telling me you don't actually think this way, because your actions prove that you do...enough said.

Did you read what I posted? I very clearly stated that looking over it

might come of nothing

. I think that's a pretty clear indication that it's something I wanted to look at and think about but might prove to be nothing I can use. Really don't know how you missed that...since I stated it pretty clearly.

Who said I'm not looking at the dead town? Again, I clearly stated in the first IoA that I posted that I was reading the dead today - scum and town - I haven't posted dead town iso's but that doesn't mean I haven't read them...which should be apparent since I said I was reading the dead today. I don't know Duplicity's intent and didn't say I did, but their actions speak to someone actually looking for scum, so I'm going to take another look at their interactions. I

am

looking at dead town, both lynched and night killed. Shit, I practically have Spyrex's last reads list memorized ffs. Just because I'm not posting it doesn't mean I haven't read it. What I'm posting are things I want to look at without the distractions of their others posts and have struck enough interest in me that I want to look again.

You are doing it again Tierce. You are assuming things of my mindset

that you can't possibly know

I never once said they were a town vig or that i thought they might be.

I'm looking at all the evidence I can...with no assumptions at all. As I said when this day started I'm reassessing everything. My strong scum reads are dead. GreyIce was scum; I had him as town. LLD is apparently town; I've had her as scum. ML - I've had as an on/off scum read; the same with you Tierce. I'm not taking anything for granted, hence the research and interaction between dead scum.

[Glork]

Glork, are you drunk?

This is what they've claimed: Hindu is one-shot. He's attached to Tammy, he doesn't die if she commutes, and she can't commute on consecutive phases.

Oh, somewhere along the line I got the impression that Hindu could re-attach himself.


In that case, sec, rereading some stuff.

[Tammy]

No, both Hindu and I would die if I'm targeted. I don't have a bodyguard, he's a one way lover to me. My only protection is being able to leave.

But if the scums are looking for 1-2 more people on The List, and neither of you are on it, they probably won't waste a nightkill on you, especially when so many people are cleared.



Two points on the whole Tammy and Hindu thing.
Tammy should confirm herself today. I think there's VERY little downside.

Hindu should attach himself to someone extremely questionable, so that if the scum want a 2-for-1, they have to eliminate another potential (mis)lynch target. I haven't decided WHO I want Hindu to target yet. Tammy's not a terrible choice. I've also thought about having him pick Toasty, Ludi, Nik, or Singer. Of those five, I'm leaning

slightly

towards Nik, but it's pretty up-in-the-air.

Explain why you suddenly think I need to confirm myself. Also, how did you miss that Hindu already attached himself to me?

[Tierce]

I'm not reading all that, Tammy. As I've said, I'm resigned to pretty much ignoring you.
I was simply saying you should take Duplicity's posted notions with a grain of salt. Now do whatever--I'm not really sure what you posted on that answer to me since yep, I'm enforcing a skim-restriction for myself--I have better things to do.

[Tammy]

Why. Aren't. We. Lynching. Tierce???????

[Tammy]

I will fucking strangle anyone who says she's obvtown...when I have yet to see but minimal town motivation from her all game.

[Tammy]

Seriously, Glork. Explain. You are the one who told me to rescind my day commute to prove myself in the first place. Why the sudden turn around now?

I COULD HAVE DONE THIS DAYS AGO.

The only way I will prove myself at this point during the day is if Dana also comes in and says he needs proof.

[Tammy]

I'm not reading all that, Tammy. As I've said, I'm resigned to pretty much ignoring you.
I was simply saying you should take Duplicity's posted notions with a grain of salt. Now do whatever--I'm not really sure what you posted on that answer to me since yep, I'm enforcing a skim-restriction for myself--I have better things to do.

Well then fucking at least read this little bit if it strains you so fucking muck to read a few damn paragraphs:

"Did you read what I posted? I very clearly stated that looking over it might come of nothing. I think that's a pretty clear indication that it's something I wanted to look at and think about but might prove to be nothing I can use. Really don't know how you missed that...since I stated it pretty clearly."

[Tammy]

VOTE: Tierce[/vote}