Team Mafia: White Flag Mafia

[Thor665]

/Forsooth.

[Thor665]

Vote: Inflatable Pie

I agree with the scumtell Equinox has chosen not to mention.

@Llamarble - I think my opinions and preferences for games is highly well known. I hate playing scum, hate lying to town who I secretly wish to win, and my favorite role is VT. Now that I'm confirmed town you should sheep me.

Socio also had the best RVS I've ever seen - kudos, sir.

[Thor665]

Oh, and callin git now, if we ever wagon up mith I call dibs on the hammer - that post will be worth $$$ someday.

[Thor665]

Wooosh.

I agree with Equi about Chris, town read there.
I'm liking the Llama brothers thus far, though it's weaker.
Equi is working really hard, if scum, and I don't buy that.

I still like Pie for the rope - the buzzing bee who thinks sarcasm is 'srs tell, srsly' and Mith also go on my scum list.
Let's lynch one of them, I still have dibs on a Mith hammer.

[Thor665]

Why mith? You hadn't mentioned a thing about him before this post other than "I want the hammer if there's a wagon", and that was during an apparent RVS for you. What changed?

Mith is scum because he's bothering to take time to attack someone's town reads while not actually attacking anything else.

[Thor665]

I didn't even read the amount of votes that mith had before I posted a vote on him. I literally clicked the thread, hit reply and said "Vote: mith. Not everyday I can do that." to get a placeholder RVS vote out until I could read. Equinox told me to read her logic, I did, and I agreed with it.

Really?

[Thor665]

Okay, DH can be town.

[Thor665]

How sure is 4 sure?

Let's see more dancing.

Unvote: Inflatable Pie
Vote: Klazam

That's L-3, let's quick wagon him for lulz because we'll all keep finding him scummy no matter what at this stage.

[Thor665]

And you used it on Socio instead of someone we already had a wagon on? Shame on you for suck play.

Also, a little birdy tells me that you hate VT play - thoughts?

[Thor665]

Also, a little birdy tells me that you hate VT play - thoughts?

Your source is a bird, and the information you got passed through a bird's brain.

So you're saying it's true or false? I'd like it to pass through a second bird's brain for clarification

[Thor665]

Also, you just self-meta'ed as much as me and for the same reason (being asked to), so now you need to add yourself to your scum list I'll consider your thoughts there.

Meanwhile, why not help us lynch Klazam? He has a creamy nougat center.

[Thor665]

Thor, what was the scum tell you saw? Same as Equi now she has explained it a little?

Honestly, I was doing it for him saying 'Conform' and not confirm, and to wagon. When she claimed she had an actual tell, my thought was - sweet, somebody on a team knows alignments of other peoples on team and we can roll this one along.

[Thor665]

Why wouldn't I be?

I don't see it as any more likely to come from scum as town. If I took issue with it I should take issue with every single post DGB has ever made on Day 1 in her entire Mafia career...wait....maybe I should take issue with it

But; yes, I am happy to take the explanation at face value.

[Thor665]

Maybe I am wrong about Equi but my gut is crawling. What's your opinion on Marable?

I look at the body of work there and do not see an optimal scum strategy. Gut is gut, but that's my take.

Llamarable; I actually thought his meta question was decently logical. There is a certain type of player likely to be drawn to Mountainous and I do think VT and cop-free Mafia lovers are amongst that class so trying to sniff them out seems logical. I'm slightly biased because he lurvs me for my obv. VT preference meta - but at the same time I consider the work he took in actually bothering to research that a bit for himself speaks reasonably well for him. I'm still sticking with a town read on him, the worst you've done is ding him for not explaining things enough, but his answers make sense to me.

Could you expand on the Klazam town read? I can feel the 'mislynch wagon' vibe there I suppose, but I don't get any actual town vibes off the Bee at all. I actually thought his reads post was terribad.

[Thor665]

Let's do this.

Unvote: Kalzam
Vote: DGB

I usually get slight town tells off of whoever attacks DGB first in a game. Also I'm much more interested in playing the DGB/Socio game than anything else currently.

[Thor665]

@Chris - you like mith because of his 2 posts? You also manage to tunnel the everloving bejeezus out of Equinox while openly stating you are only up to Page 4. If you think she and IP are working together than vote IP, I'll back that play and then we can consider your case if IP is scum, win/win right?

@Equinox - I intend to/should. I haven't yet.

[Thor665]

@Sotty - yeah, I know. I'm dropping the ball here and in [redacted] I blame other ongoing [redacted]s that were fluttering around deadline. I'll be catching up here and in [redacted] tomorrow as I just read the last page and a half, realized interesting things were being said, and yet managed to have my brain produce nothing but a fizzing noise.

@IP - Town read attack, ho!

Llamarble: It's a bit early for me to be looking at pairings, but I find it interesting that you asked a question which Thor665 was the first to answer, and you were able to find and provide better justification for his answer than for your own. Feels a bit staged somehow.

There's your question though.
Llamarble has a town read? I need to attack it and break it down in front of everyone, I also need to note how he was able to find better justification for his town read than his own defense because...y'know...that's scummy as hell...for BOTH of them, amirite?

That's a direct translation.

[Thor665]

@IP - you're certainly entitled to that opinion but considering the timing of the discussion...naaaah. I stand by that read.

I don't really like the Sotty or DH votes, can those wagons die please?

Putting DGB to L-1 yesterday would have been tech. Putting her on it today should at least get other people to comment on the wagon more, so it's at least partly tech.

[Thor665]

@mith - you really love you your scum pairings. How does DH flipping town in any way reflect on Equi's alignment exactly?

[Thor665]

You've indicated that you don't see the DGB wagon as dodgy. How does being the L-1 vote strike you, because you really need to start screaming a heck of a lot more if you want that DH one to go anywhere. I'm fine with either option, I like a good howling match as much as the next guy (unless the next guy is Socio or Fate) but would love to see you go with one of those options.

[Thor665]

Oh, and happy day of womb escapage Shotty...this thread needs more Shotty

[Thor665]

Though i consider my skills reading DGB to be roughly akin to my skills reading braille, my team of birdies all generally agree that DGB 1. doesn't care for town games and 2. would have been more...DGBish (derpy? I dunno) if she had been town. Since I can't read the silly bint anyway, she's a solid A1 lynch in my opinion.

@Llama - terseness as a scumtell...yeah, I'll look forward to the actual case.

[Thor665]

Oh, and happy day of womb escapage S

h

otty...this thread needs more S

h

otty

Man, and it's practically a double insult. My bad.
In exchange I'll offer up help in reading;

Still, who are your top reads atm? I see a lot of Mith pressure but not a lot of actual statements about his alignment.

I still like Pie for the rope - the buzzing bee who thinks sarcasm is 'srs tell, srsly' and Mith also go on my scum list.
Let's lynch one of them, I still have dibs on a Mith hammer.

Mith is scum because he's bothering to take time to attack someone's town reads while not actually attacking anything else.

Mith is scum. He's probably currently actually my second top. I still have lingering doubts over Pie, but I think my preference for both of the others is significantly beyond my desire for him at this stage. DGB is public enemy number one.

...
...
...I left the hammer comment in on purpose, just so everyone knows. I want to sig that sucker.

As for my impression on mith I think he has been less than impressive so far. I don't know if that's because he got stuck in the DH back and forth or if he is really scum. I still think DGB/marble/DH are much scummier than him however.

I still don't feel Llama, especially not if I'm right about mith. I'm strongly thinking DH is townish at this stage, I've found him town and so have a number of my team who've read the thread which reinforces my gut and makes me feel proud of myself.

[Thor665]

You have successfully identified playstyle tells. Not scum tells.

[Thor665]

Though I'll clarify - I have yet to notice any correlation between case length and case quality. Case persuasiveness...maybe, but quality? Not so much.

[Thor665]

I support all theoretical supposition on the actual sanity of Sociopath.
That said, I think he has a good point with the vote switch. I'm not sure how I'm feeling about it though.

@Socio - if you believe mith's vote was scum motivated, what makes you think DGB is still his buddy and also worthy of a vote?

[Thor665]

More votes? So is that calling for a lynch, or do you mean one vote for L-1?

And your voices are silly and not as smart as my voices.

[Thor665]

Yeah, and you're openly disagreeing with your voices while still mentioning what they're saying as though it's a potential placeholder...stop that. We'll lynch you soon enough

[Thor665]

#23: Thor, read this post again. What scumtell did you mean? You're agreeing with something that Equinox didn't state.

Already addressed this.

#93: This is a little....small for the amount of time that's gone by since your last contribution.

#102: I read this as "If thor is scum, mith is not" and vice versa.

Thor:

did you 100% know what Equinox was talking about (by pre-game talk) or was it just a guess?

Already addressed this.

[Thor665]

I demand that Thor and his imaginary friends show that I DON'T CARE FOR TOWN GAMES. I have never, ever, wrote any such thing, in PM, in QTs, in Discussion, in game, on tree bark, or carved into rosk, that I don't care for town games. Jesus. If you look really hard, you might, instead, find EVIDENCE that I prefer to hunt scum than to lie.

To clarify - the actual accusation was 'doesn't care for VT' but I'll hit up the QT and report back.

SHOW LINKS. You think your BS makes me a good Day 1 lynch??? And you want people to just take your word for it? PLEASE HUMILIATE YOURSELF AND FAIL TO SHOW EVIDENCE, for you have none.

I'm a daycop

[Thor665]

I'm glad you asnwered this,

AFTER

Thor showed us all that

he

didn't know about this game, as I suspected.

I...uh....never claimed I knew jack all. I claimed I got it from my crewmates. So I was openly claiming not to know this meta on you, congratulations on proving what I've already claimed. I've requested my QT to provide relevant information, so demanding I supply said information again right away *might* speed them up in getting back to me, but I kind of doubt it.

And don't worry - regardless of Equinox I'll keep supplying BS So

And if you perchance find evidence that I prefer to be town, which you might if you actually search for anything, are you going to share with with the rest of us?

I'm not searching at all - so...no? If you would like to go mine your games for this info I'd be happy to see it.

[Thor665]

I...uh....never claimed I knew jack all. I claimed I got it from my crewmates.

But you thought I was a good lync on this evidence?

Yes.

[Thor665]

[Thor]'s seriously WILLING TO LYNCH on unsupported, false information that he claims to have conveniently gotten from his team mates.

So your current theory is that my team said nothing about you and I made the whole thing up?

One of them has reported in and said it was a read s/he saw first advanced by ABR in Metropolis mafia and claims validity from her/his own observations. I'll offer more as others check in.

[Thor665]

[Thor]'s seriously WILLING TO LYNCH on unsupported, false information that he claims to have conveniently gotten from his team mates.

So your current theory is that my team said nothing about you and I made the whole thing up?

Jeez, I really want to focus on this for a moment and how crazy it sounds. Even if I was scum and wanted a mislynch on DGB why wouldn't I ask my scumbuddy meta team partners for legitimate reasons to string her up? We (or rather I alone) would just make something up? What's that...that sound in the distance...it sounds like...flailing,

[Thor665]

@DGB - it's perfectly realistic if I'm a moron, sure. Observational data can still deduce preferences. That's how people can buy presents at Christmas and (reasonably accurately - barring socks and ties) accurately purchase something the other person likes. Please try again.

[Thor665]

Oh yeeeeeeah.

(had to done eventually)

[Thor665]

Why should one of the rest of us hammer this lynch? In no more than a paragraph, please.

If you don't want to - don't.
If you do - do.

[Thor665]

So, on that point, Thor - why did you avoid answering? That was some fairly obvious evasion.

I think I actually quite directly answered the question, I just evaded doing so in the particular way you had requested. You're asking me to generally sell you on being the hammer, I refuted with a statement that you should either want to be the hammer or not, and I didn't feel a need to cajole you into it. That's answering your question. How is it not?

[Thor665]

A summary of why I think DGB is scum

Then vote her.

[Thor665]

@Chris B

Though i consider my skills reading DGB to be roughly akin to my skills reading braille, my team of birdies all generally agree that DGB 1. doesn't care for town games and 2. would have been more...DGBish (derpy? I dunno) if she had been town. Since I can't read the silly bint anyway, she's a solid A1 lynch in my opinion.

I'll add in Socio/my call on how she's called some things scummy and then later did those things (meta defense) which is pretty silly, since when people are asked about meta it's not scummy to answer the question by referencing meta - the fact she claimed it looked scummy when others did it then becomes a really sketchy scumtell. Plus, she did it on me, and I'm awesome and have a sweet beard, so she was obviously off her rocker.

That's the long and short of it from me, if you're one of those players who believes a wallpost case is somehow more townish than just pretend I quoted every instance she brought up meta and blathered on for about a paragraph (repeating myself semi-constantly) about how she's being scummy again, and also probably dug up the Metropolis and SA games she was in and had another long speech about how research there shows a lack of enjoyment in dull roles and dull setups. Plus I could probably have mixed in a lengthy spiel of point by point insults that I'd pass off as 'analysis' wherein I attack everything she ever said to me and kept saying insightful things that would really just be summed up as 'look, I think she's flaling' when she attacked me after coming back to the game.

[Thor665]

Sweet, so Pie is town then, right, he played the card.

[Thor665]

Ugh, I need to read up and look at more stuff.
That said, four way ties are not actually that exciting in Mafia.

Vote: Sevei

Dance, my pretties, dance.

[Thor665]

I've been avoiding this due to laziness.

I'm pretty sold on mith town at the moment, which is a nice upgrade though it does deny me awesome sig possibilities. The rest of my town reads pretty much hold, if I haven't promoted Pie to likely town yet I'm doing so now.

I'm being pretty sold by the DH as scum arguements. I think the smart money is either Sevei or DH at this stage.

@General Town Question - does anyone have town meta on Sevei? To wit, I glanced over that scum game of hers and she was a fairly aggressive poster with lots of mini walls. (Parama size, not MoI size) Just curious if anyone has seen this pathetic lurk out of her before.

@IP - you seem pretty sold on Sevei over DH, why is that? I'd love to have some brilliance shone upon me so that I too can be brilliant.

[Thor665]

@DH - why'd you choose this game to participate in as opposed to one of the other three?

[Thor665]

You didn't link them though - and in any case I wanted other people's opinions, not my opinion.

[Thor665]

@Sotty - I think the basic disagreement re: Sevei between you and I is I don't see her at a pivotal point in the wagon. I think she was maybe trying to slow it down a bit, realized she couldn't/was looking bad for doing so, and sprang forward with both feet for lynch win. I know in this setup it's a glorious wifom dance as to whether or not scum would bus, but I know if I was scum in this setup I'd bus like nobody's business as early as I needed to in the expectation it would help dramatically distance me and help me sail along till deep into the game with no real consideration on me.

You're still after the Llamafluff angle? What do you think of post #*cough* (Thor may be too lazy to actually go back and get the post number) where he did a wagon analysis and basically called half the players left obv. town. That's a pretty dramatic limiting of his vote pool later if he lasts that long, isn't it? I'm not sure I buy scum pulling that maneuver at this stage.

[Thor665]

What's the DH case again?

[Thor665]

I'm not sure whether Thor hit his head and got amnesia, or whether he is scum.

Why did you forget the case on me when you agreed with it pages ago? It didn't exactly change.

Yes, those are the only possible reasons I asked Sotty what the case on you was.
Proceed.

[Thor665]

As scum I would do that because I'd forget I had lied about a scum read, but as town I would most assuredly have not forgotten?

[Thor665]

@Llamafluff - My cleft chin makes me town though.

So, you're actually leaning towards 2 scum being on the DGB wagon at the moment? Because that's what the case would be for that Sotty case to really make sense. There's no point in pulling herself off the table if she can't get her buddy out of the hotseat too, yeah?

[Thor665]

Should anyone have a town read of you? So far most of the town reads appear to be based on 'she's pathetically lurking, for her that's a town read' and all I can wonder is, if she's pathetically lurking as town, why would she pick a game about being town and hopefully active town, since Mountainous games are won via town being active and awesome and having cleft chins.

[Thor665]

By the way, you guys remember this?

InflatablePie (6) [L-1]: Equinox, Thor, Llamarble, Klazam, DH, IP

What are the odds of a L-2/L-1 wagon containing zero scum again?

Are you counting yourself

No, that is a solid call, though I'd feel better about it if you weren't tacked on like a wart at the end of the wagon. You're using this to indemnify DH? A cross reference with the DGB lynch gives us Thor, IP, Equinox - does that increase our chances of being scum since we all seem to agree scum would bus in this setup?

@Sevei - so are you saying both the wagon jumpers are scum, or only one? Also, why would the scum be fleeing from your wagon? I just got you a few exchanges ago to admit you didn't look like town, now you're crowing that scum are too scared to push through a wagon on you? Que? <--with IP raising the bar I have to prove bilingual too now.

[Thor665]

Thor: I've played with him before in a town that got nominated for best town, and his play isn't very similar. Plus the late DGB attack on him was strange.

Rack up another "Thor is scummy because he should be better than he is currently" call on me, bringing my current record to 'too fething many'.

You know, I called DGB scum and your slot town, theoretically that should be two accuracy points from me as far as you're claiming, how good do I have to play to be town?

I feel like a dill weed having to point this out to everyone and make a town case on myself; but I was on DGB early, I did it for gut and for reasons supplied by teammates - basically distancing myself from any particular calls of brilliance in being on the wagon. I helped push the wagon through to its tipping point, kept her in discussion, and had her flip her collective brain pan all over me like crazy as soon as she came back from V/LA...and I'm a potential suspect on multiple people's lists?

I hate you all.

I don't dislike the mith as scum talk, but I'm not sure if I buy it as much as I would have yesterday. People are starting to sell me on Llamarble but I'm not sure the wagon feels right. I'd still just like to flip Sevei and see where we are tomorrow.

[Thor665]

How about this to rattle the boat?

Unvote: Sevei
Vote: Sotty7

[Thor665]

Thor665, an excuse to better admire your charming beard: What are your current reads of Sevei and Sotty7?

Scummy and not remotely as scummy - but the sane way to answer this with my voting is town and obv. scum lololololtrollol.
That said, our vote counts needed a kick in the pants, and Sotty hasn't been producing as much as I'd like her to if she wants me to keep defending her.

I'm feeling betrayed. Why the shift to me?

I feel betrayed, why aren't you being more awesome? I'll accuse you of lurking on top of it to make it more of a conventional scum accusation. We'll mix in a touch of PoE due to my desire to lynch on the DGB wagon and stated belief that someone bussed.

[Thor665]

How exactly am I supposed to be awesome when a lot of the town seem happy to lynch down a list order rather than scum hunt? I have pushed my case on DH and he still isn't doing

anything

. I have responded to accusations against me and been trying to find scum this whole game. I could just hold up a mirror and your accusations would hit more at home being aimed at you. Where's your scum hunting? Where's your awesome? I'm seeing a distinct lack of either.

Nerves...have been hit?

No, I'm not lurking and I am awesome, so clearly you're wrong there.

Who is the scum on the wagon, and what do you think of the idea of hunting for that scum as opposed to hunting for a scum off the wagon?

[Thor665]

Instead, Thor derailed it immediately because....well, just because, really.

It's because I'm awesome, actually. It's in my contract. Plus, your question looked scummy and so I derailed it like a superhero - deal with it.

@Sotty - she kicks, there's life in her yet!

Okay, so we've identified some lurkers and stuff, and you spent a bit of time commenting on weak pro-town players which is a little odd but I can understand the frustration there. I'm really not sure I buy mith as scum anymore. He's actually doing scumhunting today, and seems to be providing solid reasoning behind his conclusions. I'm not sure I really buy all his conclusions but they don't look suspect to me - do they look suspect to you or are you wanting to haul him up for actions of yesterday? What's the current mith=scum to your mind?

I understand you seem to have your top scumreads off the wagon, but you're not addressing the likelihood of why we should look off the wagon. I'm of a pretty strong belief that at least one scum bussed. Besides mith's attempts I haven't seen anyone try to disabuse that notion, and though mith has laid out his reasons pretty well I, personally, suspect they are silly and wrong - possibly at the same time. You appear to just be looking at top suspects in a general sense as opposed to looking for connections pertaining to DGB or to her wagon, thoughts?

[Thor665]

I actually was feeling much more town about DH until that very last ost.
::sad, yet manly, face::

[Thor665]

Actually, I'm pretty neutral on Chris but somewhat agree with the town read on him and, at worst, put him into a mushy middle ground. I actually just think 629 is inherently scummy all by itself - switch Chris' name out with a variety of other players and it's still scummy.

[Thor665]

I'd like the Amrun wagon to die methinks.

Sevei and DH should give up the ghosts on their fail wagons. DH is at least trying, but Sevei is not even playing the game at the moment. Either way, neither of those wagons are going anywhere, this makes baby Thor cry (manfully). Move votes somewhere useful.

[Thor665]

Guys, serious question - DH is scum, so he's desperately trying to work a Chris B. wagon as his competing option? The guy multiple people have called town while barely feeling a need to explain why. Really? I'm not sure I buy that.

Could we lynch Sevei or Sotty please?

[Thor665]

Couple of things

Thor post 622, no reaction?

No.

Llamafluff is stalling. So is Thor. More on this once I hear back from the mods on how far I can take this point.

I hope they let you take it really far, because I'd like to hear how I'm stalling.

I'll agree with you about DH and Sevei's votes...of course I already said that...y'know, while I was stalling or something.

EBWOP - @DH, yes, that is better.

[Thor665]

@Sotty - You debunked *a* reason I listed, that hardly obliterates the case and certainly doesn't affect my desire or purpose in voting you.
I am aware of the difficulties with the Sevei lynch, and I rage inside like a seething cauldron of not happiness.

[Thor665]

@Sotty

1. Gut.
2. Reaction Fishing.
3. Vote shaking up.

It's an invincible case.

@Mith - yeah, I called him on it right when it happened too. But he feels very visceral and emotional about the lynch. It doesn't feel fake to me.

Okay this is where we're at right now:

DH (4): mith, Sotty, Equinox, Chris
mith (3): Amrun, LlamaFluff, DH
Amrun (2): Llamarble, IP
Sotty (1): Thor
Llamarble (1): Sevei

[snip]

Thor your stalling looks even more obvious now wouldn't you say?

Considering I have stated that I don't like the DH, Amrun, or mith cases currently and the wagon I was on just got reduced to a 1 voter...no, not at all.

[Thor665]

Yes.
I am trying to run a wagon on you, unsuccessfully.

Is there ever a game that doesn't need a flip on Day 2? Especially in mountainous? Silly question is silly.

[Thor665]

Try harder...?

To get you lynched?
Yes ma'am

@Everyone - SOTTY JUST AGREED THAT GETTING HER LYNCHED WOULD BE PRO-TOWN, VOTE ACCORDINGLY!

[Thor665]

Why can't I?

[Thor665]

I'm talking with my teammates and they're seeing a Sotty scum read, but I don't quite see the same thing they do.

Can someone condense the case on Sotty? I'm just seeing genuineness from her and I don't understand what people are seeing that's scummy.

Have you asked your team this as well?
I just gave my Sotty bullet points a page or two back, and a case about five pages back.

[Thor665]

I don't agree with the LF vote, the Sotty town read, or the histrionics - but I approve of the message above.

[Thor665]

Unvote: Sotty
Vote: DH

[Thor665]

L-1 - feel it.

[Thor665]

Don't be too happy with me, I'd still rather see you lynched, but I suspect this game has DH on the brain. I suspect he's town quite strongly, but also suspect we'll never move past it till he's dead.
Or, to paraphrase one of my favorite (only?) Benmage posts;

Hey Sotty. Here's my case: I'm town. I think Demon Hybrid is town. I'm voting Demon Hybrid. Sup.

[Thor665]

@DH - If you're scum, you've owned my face.
If you're town, than I sort of equally hate this tunneling muck of a town too - so we have that to bond over

@Chris - he already gave the one on Sotty, so...

[Thor665]

Equinox - if you actually think me saying "I think he's town" magically will absolve me of guilt you are being quite silly and strange. Also, game momentum *is* an important facet of the game, and I'd rather not spend a second Day Phase dorking around on the DH question.

The reason I brought up my beliefs is for the sole and single purpose of grinding it in everyone's faces tomorrow so I can get the lynch *I* want to happen to actually happen. I don't expect it to absolve me of anything, but I do expect it to show that I was right twice in a row, so why not three times?

[Thor665]

I dunno, ask me a third time and maybe I'll change my mind

I tried to shake us up with the Sotty wagon, I tried to make a Sevei wagon, through both there is this kind of odd chant about DH because he defended DGB. Well...yes, he did. It's going to be an issue for every day he's left alive, and I would rather just chuck him into the meat grinder now than try to stumble into a mith lynch (which I don't buy into much either - but his case is more defensible) or I could sit on Sotty going 'waaaah, waaah, you all smell of old socks!' which would certainly be emotionally gratifying, or I could just actually advance the case to L-1, see some reactions, and possibly end a Day that should have ended about five days ago.

Do you think I'm passing up a wonderful case that could happen?
Do you think I'm passing up on some wonderful and insightful discussion?
No? Okay then.

[Thor665]

I agree that mith could happen. I also don't think he's scum.
I see your case as less pants on head movement than the DH case, but that's why the DH case will not die until he does.
Everyone can feel free to prove me wrong by getting off this wagon if you're unhappy with my logic for supporting it - that would be fine with me. Or we can embrace the hoo-hawing. Whichever.

[Thor665]

Thor665 is lynching DemonHybrid. If he wanted reactions, he'd have unvoted by now.

*Spreads arms wide*

[Thor665]

I'd do Sotty, I'd probably do Llamarble over DH, but I'm not as excited as I would be for Sotty.
I think Equinox believes Sotty is obv. town though.

@Equinox - It's basically not even a question that there is at least one scum on the DH wagon if he's town. If he's scum than I think the other scum would be going for blatant defense because there's no reason not to.

[Thor665]

I'd do Sotty,

That made me giggle though

I would totally do you over DH, it's not even a question.

...wait, which innuendo are we in right now?

@who ever the frell aksed it - I'd rather lynch Sevei than DH. I'd rather lynch Sotty than either of them. Frankly I'd rather not lynch DH, and if we get a few more people going 'gosh and golly, he looks town' I'm all game for the action of killing this wagon dead.

@mith - what do you think of the DH "hydra" calling you out for tunneling him and not offering reads on others?

[Thor665]

Unvote: DH
Vote: Sevei

[Thor665]

We're running out of time and I'd prefer to keep what banked time we have.

[Thor665]

Llamafluff (2): Equinox, IP
mith (1): Amrun,
Llamarble (1): Sevei

Who thinks these are happening?
COULD WE JUST GET A LYNCH ALREADY?

I'm hammering the very next person put in hammer range.

[Thor665]

At the very least, Amrun, sidelining your vote - not helping much. Pick the lesser of 2-3 evils already.

[Thor665]

I could be fine with a Fluff lynch if that means we get a Sotty lynch next. Chain the lynches, chain them I say!

[Thor665]

The last post from Thor REALLY bugged me since it seemed to come from a state of mind that I was definantly town.

I apologize for having you as a town read since Day 1...?
I also apologize for agreeing to your stated desire of a Sotty lynch after your flip...?
I also apologize for being a handsome devil...?

[Thor665]

I could be fine with a Fluff lynch if that means we get a Sotty lynch next. Chain the lynches, chain them I say!

Who else is scum, Thor665?

If I knew that I'd be screaming for their lynch.
I want a Sotty Sevei lynch, I have wanted a Sotty/Sevei lynch, and I continue to want a Sotty/Sevei lynch.
That said - this game is dragging so bad my next most preferred lynch is...ANYBODY.

[Thor665]

@Fluff - who are the voters on this groundswell of a Sotty wagon I have to look forward to? I tried that wagon pretty hard earlier and it went nowhere fast. I've also openly voted townreads today - I think I made my opinion about that pretty clear. If you were at L-1 right now I'd hammer.

@Sotty - ...yeah, I'm good with that bluff and still want to lynch you.

[Thor665]

I really don't think you have any belief in your head that I am unwilling to lynch you. The goal is to get other people to notice and vote you.

[Thor665]

Thor I'm serious. We have needed a lynch for the past week almost, there is quite a lot of out lying support for my lynch. You're coasting and have been all game. I'm getting real sick of it.

True story - last time you called me out for coasting I was on your wagon.
Now I'm coasting for not being on it.
Clue - I'm not coasting.

[Thor665]

Thor I'm serious. We have needed a lynch for the past week almost, there is quite a lot of out lying support for my lynch. You're coasting and have been all game. I'm getting real sick of it.

True story - last time you called me out for coasting I was on your wagon.
Now I'm coasting for not being on it.
Clue - I'm not coasting.

This pretends to make sense but actually doesn't.

You're accusing me of coasting too?
Die in a fire.

Did Equi just put DH at L-1? Mjolnir time!

Unvote: Sevei
Vote: Demon Hybrid

[Thor665]

I swear if you flip town DH I am going to be very unhappy.

If DH flips scum I'll be quite shocked.

[Thor665]

@DH - if you're scum I'll hate you.

[Thor665]

Unvote: DemonHybrid
Vote: Sotty7

Choo-choo!
Choo-choo?
Choo-frellin'-choo, people.

[Thor665]

I hate everyone in here right now.

But I lurvz you...I just need to know what form our relationship will take.

Also, thor, I didn't say you were coasting. I said your post didn't make sense.

Meh. I actually think it did.
She whined earlier that I was on her and not on big wagons.
Then later I'm on big wagons and she whines that I won't get off them and on her (innuendos intended, Sotty )
Both times she accuses me of the same thing - that I'm coasting and not pushing the game along.
Please.

[Thor665]

Thor just wants to bag me. I'm starting to realize that and coming to terms with it.

Not sure if innuendo...

I take back when I said you were coasting "all game". You actually pushed pretty well against DGB from the start. It's day two you have started to coast. You being on or off my wagon has nothing to do with the fact you gave up on making cases awhile back.

My case on DGB was 'I hate her playstyle and can't read it, and meta from my team buddies'
It's not like my cases have taken a dramatic downturn in expansiveness.

[Thor665]

Fishing.

Vote: Sotty7

I have a town read on the fluffy one.

[Thor665]

@Llamarble - why cn I be buddies with Chris B and Equi but not Llamafluff?

[Thor665]

The ruleouts are based on votes showing intent to lynch.
Hence a lot of possibilities for unwagoned folks.

How'd I get ruled off of Llamafluff then? I don't think either of us has ever voted the other.

[Thor665]

Was that simple to follow for everyone else?

You get smarter when you vote, maybe if you voted or expressed strong suspicion you'd suddenly understand it?

[Thor665]

Thor's not the most cooperative player, is he? I find him hard to get a read on as a result, since any time I ask people for their thoughts on something, he jumps in with a sarcastic comment or trying to avoid the point. Annoying.

You could try asking again, or explaining why my sarcasm isn't valid.
When I answer sarcastically it's generally because I consider the question non-worthwhile, pointless, or laughable (or some combination thereof). If your questions are actually legitimately important to getting a read on someone and I deny that read through my rapier wit...shouldn't you rephrase and ask again?

I support your vote though I'll also support the question about your reasoning. Did I have your support on this one yesterday? I don't recall it.

[Thor665]

Today, Llamarble is throwing in huge amounts of IIOA, WIFOM and general nothingness. My post was intended to point this out, and also ask other people's verdicts on it. How is this non-worthwhile, pointless or laughable?

Was that simple to follow for everyone else?

So...by me mocking a sideways attack on Llamarble when you're not even willing to vote him it makes me unreadable? How about you ask again? How about you ask a specific question that doesn't look like an attack post? How about you consider me to be blatantly defending him by shutting you down?

If anyone has made their case against Sotty, it's me. And you don't recall if you had my support yesterday? God, it's a shame that posts from yesterday aren't kept and we have to rely only on memory. Wouldn't it be handy if you could go back a couple of pages and check?

That would be handy, unfortunately I have no fingers. So, no.
Why did it take a couple posts to continue your awesome case that I am just sheeping off of?

[Thor665]

Thor, Chris made a huge case on Sotty... It concerns me that you don't know this.

I track aggressiveness and pressure more than length of case. I think the former is far more telling of intent than the latter.
I think this shows with his unvote - I don't feel he's about the Sotty wagon at all. You can disagree...but you'll be wrong
Also - why does it 'concern' you? You're allowed to go somewhere with that, rather than leaving it nebulous.

How does not voting someone = not even willing to vote him? As long as you're making stuff up, why not go hog wild?

Because no one needs to hear about how ginormous my sexual prowess are again.
Votes matter. Pressure matters. Sideways attack looking for support from others matter, but not in the same way. Why does my assessment of your Marble issues bother you so? I don't think I'm making anything up, I'm offering my opinion of your actions - why do you feel it's made up?

[Thor665]

Seriously? I am "making it up" when you just agreed that there was factual evidence in support of my call?
Here's the facts - you attacked Marble, whined about me when I called you on attacking Marble, and then voted Sotty. Then you changed votes because Amrun pointed out you were allowed to vote Marble.
Yeah.

[Thor665]

But Thor, let me spell this out. If a wagon forms on Sotty, I'm there. I tried to get one going yesterday, and it didn't get anywhere.

Your vote and my vote would make the Sotty wagon one of the strongest contenders today thus far.

And it concerns me because it doesn't bode well if you don't take note of the basic pushes and cases in the game, because only scum wouldn't be aware of them

Psssh, no.
And shouldn't you be voting me if you believe that? You're being pedantic and silly.

and asking for case repeats is just asking fpr distracting noise.

Nope here as well.

If you're not concerned with cases, Thor, why did you ask Chris to restate his Sotty case?

Because I'm trying to drum up support for a Sotty wagon, and the more people talking Sotty and explaining how she's scum who should die the better.

[Thor665]

Driving home from work and thinking about things - I don't think the Marble wagon is good. His start of Day 1 and start of Day 2 play just doesn't strike me as scum play.

[Thor665]

I have a beard.

[Thor665]

I think the ease he used meta to clear me Day 1 while not having a clear meta setup for himself looks town.
I think the start of Day 2 when he worked through a bunch of cases, clarified his reads, and tried to focus town in also looked town.
The current case on him mostly seems to be connections and issues with scumhunting at a time when DGB sprayed everyone pretty well, and town is clearly tired.

[Thor665]

Cases are overrated (I don't know about the rest of you, but though I've been caught as scum and the person "catching" me did a huge case...the case was never actually true except by happenstance), and what does that have to do with me being against Llamarble lynch?

InB4 your Thor/Llamarble pairing is the same case DGB presented.

[Thor665]

Yeah...and I called him on it...y'know, because a buddy with one scum mate left alive in white flag would do that?

How about we discuss why I'm clearing him - you indicated the way he cleared me was a town tell. I submit it's as good of a tell as anything you presented towards his scumminess.

[Thor665]

Something that just occurred to me: Thor, if you don't believe in the value of cases, why did you encourage Chris B to re-state his case on Sotty earlier? At first, you said you wanted more discussion of Sotty going on - but why, if cases are all bunk? If you want more cases and discussion of Sotty going on, why is it important that it come from someone other than yourself?

I stated exactly why already.
Simply because I believe al cases are silly, overblown, self-gratifying, fool-fests does not mean I'm silly enough to believe everyone is as brilliant as me in recognizing this, and they always feel safer and better doing some sheeping after seeing a really thick and meaty post that pets their fragile soul and tells them 'yeah, buddy, here it is, here's a nice safe case to sheep. Look at it, look, it...it's HUGE, man, that thing has to be correct because, I mean, it's soooo thick and...and...y'know, has QUOTES and...comments after quotes and then there's like, this CONCLUSION thing, and it says he's right and his target is scum. Wow, yeah, I should sheep that because it's waaaaay more trustworthy than, y'know, flipping a coin or something.'

Yeah, pretty much for those reasons.

[Thor665]

Thor: What I'm saying is why is that important that that case come from OTHER PLAYERS?

Because I know I'm just, and making other people repeat themselves helps me find scum. Me repeating myself just helps me sound smart(?).

Re: Mith - meh, I'd rather lynch Sotty or you than him methinks, but would rather lynch him than either Llama. So I'd say he's in my vague scum pool, but is a high hanging fruit in that pool. Most of my issues with him are playstyle based, and that doesn't feel comfortable for a lynch.

[Thor665]

@Amrun - you're quoting a case I made on DGB - I don't think that would help my Sotty rehash.

[Thor665]

1. I'll presume it's a weakly padded out case that really says 'gut' sure.
2. Really? Since sorta last page and mostly this page. You felt like a sudden assault on me as soon as I voiced any issues with the Llamarble lynch you're working on, and it felt paranoid and scummish as opposed to dismissive and townish.

[Thor665]

Paranoid = you're not agreeing with me on things, thus you are a threat.
Dismissive = you don't agree with me on this read? You're an idiot.

General paranoia can be a solid town read, paranoid response to case disagreement is scummy.

[Thor665]

You're being narrow minded then.

Allow me to debate a 5 year old as to what color the sky is, and an educated watcher will have to concede I win the argument while debating the sky is not blue. That does not prove my position correct, it simply proves my ability to argue.
Same thing with demanding clear and large cases (or even demanding they come from a particular player, like me as opposed to Chris B) it is not disproving the quality of the belief, it is disproving the ability or desire to create a large case.

You found my 'case' on DGB - it was 'gut' and 'I want her dead' whoo-hoo, great case.
It was right.
People had giant walls of relational tells as to why singer was scum with DGB.
They were wrong.

You're arguing the medium and mistaking that with the message.

Also, you're scummy, because I have a beard.

[Thor665]

@mith - frankly, his vote on me was weak enough I didn't even remember it. That does chop away at my strongest town tell on him, and to top it off I've now got little birdies screaming about his potential team composition and why that makes him look scummier (an aspect of the game I'm totally failing at).

I'll also, though, take this time to point at Sotty and sort of grunt meaningfully.

[Thor665]

Vote: Llamarble

Let's at least kick start discussion. Hey, look, total speed wagon happening here! Hup-hup-hup!

[Thor665]

@Fluff - mith wagon is dead today, move accordingly.

[Thor665]

Shouldn't that be 'sits and reads to eventually offer opinions and vote'?

[Thor665]

@Equinox on Thor:
Participation in the DGB lynch and DGB wagoning him late in the day and his assertive play all bode town.
Looking him over now though, I don't see much puzzle-solving or caring deeply who gets lynched. And he defends Amrun.

Let's do this.

Somebody didn't notice that my town case was totally dependant on him continuing to buddy me like nobody's business.
Please quote my puzzle solving from Day 1 to show what I'm not doing now.

[Thor665]

All four have been consistently townie lately, with the exception of Thor (while he's been townie, it surely hasn't been consistently).

Probably you just aren't good at reading people

[Thor665]

Yeeeessss this pleases Thor.

[Thor665]

@Fluff - wanna turn it around on Sotty - I'd be down with that

Birdies say Marble is bad due to team composition though - are you considering that?

[Thor665]

Unvote: Llamamarble
Vote: Sotty 7

EBWOP: wait, whut?

[Thor665]

Unvote: Llamarble
Vote: Sotty7

@Equi - What are the team considerations for Fluff and Sotty that don't apply to Marble? Are you talking internal to this game matchups, or meta of the Team mafia event?

[Thor665]

I'm L-1, by the by.

[Thor665]

::sad face::

[Thor665]

Egregious.

I don't have any strong thoughts right now without seeing who scum kill. I'm basically at Fluff's point but flip Marble for Equi.

[Thor665]

Wow, good game well played. The only lynch that shocked me was the Llamafluff one, I didn't grok that, but admittedly had a lot of teammates grunting in agreement with me about him and also frothing about a Llamafluff kill - good timing on offing me to death.

[Thor665]

@Faraday - plus I'm cuter than Amrun.

[Thor665]

Wow, good game well played. The only lynch that shocked me was the Llamafluff one, I didn't grok that, but admittedly had a lot of teammates grunting in agreement with me about him and also frothing about a Llamafluff kill - good timing on offing me to death.

being honest he was a good lynch for us in terms of points, as if he was scum his team could win this individually.

I never quite figured out a strategy for the overall event other than using odds to dictate scum in various teams. Frankly sounds like a weak reason to lynch since he looked pretty strong town in my opinion (though I'm guessing I was a shrinking minority on that one).

[Thor665]

Yeah, also if you check me and Fluff at the end of the Day before we died - he listed mith/Equi/Amrun as top suspects and lynch train, and I was like "Yeah, good list, but I'd call it mith/Marble/Amrun

Then I died.
Then I got called a bad player by Fate.
Then I laughed because nobody ever listens to Fate anyway

[Thor665]

You mean other than me?