LlamaFluff wrote:What was the justification behind not saying it?
I believe I have already made the answer to this extremely obvious. If you are somehow unable to glean that reason from my posts so far, I'm afraid I cannot help you because that would mean I'd have to step over a line. I'm sure nobody wants that happening. In fact, I'm not even sure if I've hinted too much already.
In other news, I'm still not happy with the line of questioning against me, as I really don't think LlamaFluff would be this dense as town. InflatablePie is probably scum, part of that is lolsecretmeta and part of that is his behavior in this game, particularly the "casualness" he displayed earlier -- which doesn't come off as genuine -- and the L-1 self-vote bait. DemonHybrid and Thor665 are probably town; the former for fishing for alignments earlier, the latter for being on the same wavelength as me, which suggests he's pro-town and therefore carries an awesome beard. Team speculation leaves SocioPath as potential scum, but we'll see how things go in the actual thread. Fence-sitting on Klazam right now.
Sarcasm is a way to deflect attention when youre not sure what the reason why you are being voted are. Scum doesn't like attention.
Self voting is scummy because IT OPENS UP A HUGE CAN OF WIFOM.
Thats it.
Both of those are null tells though really, super weak at best.
Sarcasm is something that usually comes out of frustration or dislike of a person instead of trying to deflect. I know that when someone starts to bug me, I either get terse or I get sarcastic depending if I can think of anything that is funny to say or not. Its not something that I see scum use as tactical deflection.
Self-voting is a complete null tell. I can dig up plenty of games with town selfvoting when they get pissed off or in the RVS if you give me time to.
@Equinox - I really dont get it, and I just isoed you a few times. You just dangle the "secretz" card for a while and then say it. No clue where it comes from.
mith wrote:
Llmarble and Thor665: You claim to prefer being town - is there anything in your meta you can point to that confirms this in any way? (On a related and more general note, I think DGB is the only one in this game I have played with before, so I don't expect I will pay much attention to claims of meta unless they are backed up with linked evidence.)
On Thor: His wiki comments after his mafia win (mini 957) verified the being town at heart thing & his wiki was last edited in october.
For me the best verification I could find was here.
451 contains:
Llamarble wrote: Also VT happens to be my favorite normal role.
454 contains:
Llamarble wrote:VT is very "pure." I play because I like trying to read people and I like trying to get people to agree with me, which is all a VT does.
Also I like that if I draw the scumNK I have done a good thing.
I certainly enjoy other roles too though.
Which verifies my nonaversion to mountainousness.
I've probably mentioned my preference for being town elsewhere, but that was the easiest to find. Seems like that would be a silly thing to lie about anyway.
I shall analyze the evening's goings on with fresher eyes.
I go to bed at midnight, wake up at 7am, and I already feel like a lurker. Since my new job doesn't allow me the internet access I would like, I'm going to mention the fact it will generally likely take time for me to respond to posts. But hello all, and nice to meet you.
That said, <b>Vote Equinox</b>
My experience in these games is limited, but I've never seen random voting be anything other than random (or silly), since actual wagons rarely come out of them. Scum don't want to give away their game that early, and town aren't doing anything serious, because they don't know where to start. Equinox was pushing the RVS as a big deal, and has been playing very aggressively.
I'm at something of a disadvantage, because you're all more used to each other than I am, so there's the potential that I'll mistake an aggressive playing style for scum tells, but I figure I may as well vote by instinct on a first read through.
Ahahaha. Thanks for confirming my read of you, Chris B. For the folks listening in, I've mentioned previously that I think Chris B may be teamed up with people who are from the same site. If you'll check his posting on this site so far, you will see why. I don't think his team would let him touch a scum role PM; playing scum successfully requires some knowledge of the feel of this site, and obviously with post 78 just now, Chris B does not qualify. Further, you can't expect a newbie to last long in Team Mafia's player list, particularly newbie scum. Thus, Chris B is very likely town.
Llamarble's probably town, too. That means I've got 4 town reads in 4 pages... eh, not a record, but I've been spamming anyway.
Chris B, the RVS was a big deal here because I saw little reason for people to be loading their votes on mith. (I'm waiting on a teammate to check whether or not I'm running my mouth too far here, so I'll do an EBWOP for this later.) Relevancy trumps random votes, any day.
Thanks for cutting out the relevant part of the quote about why I put you on that list, SocioPath. No brownie points for you.
What is it with you people and not reading the game? You can't all be scum.
Anyway, I got an answer back about this:
Equinox wrote:Chris B, the RVS was a big deal here because I saw little reason for people to be loading their votes on mith. (I'm waiting on a teammate to check whether or not I'm running my mouth too far here, so I'll do an EBWOP for this later.) Relevancy trumps random votes, any day.
Apparently, what I was going to say was going to risk death and destruction for us all, so let's go with this. Something happened somewhere, and based on the information I had about InflatablePie, it meant that he was possibly scum. How I wish I could get into more detail, but I don't want to lose my head over this, so :dealwithit: until InflatablePie does stuff.
Not much time (about to go crush some fifth graders at mini golf), so quickly...
Llamarble: It's a bit early for me to be looking at pairings, but I find it interesting that you asked a question which Thor665 was the first to answer, and you were able to find and provide better justification for his answer than for your own. Feels a bit staged somehow. What are your thoughts on the answers others have provided?
My mind says Llamafluff is raising good points against Equinox. Primarily:
1. Thinking it was 5 to lynch yet strongly encouraging others to join a wagon at L-2 without pointing this out. (Also, the respect-wagon got to 4 votes... one would think a town Equinox would mention that the opposing wagon was at L-1.)
2. His reaction to thinking InflatablePie had been hammered... not the reaction I would be expecting for someone who has strong (?) reasons for thinking IP is scum.
My gut, on the other hand, doesn't like LlamaFluff, and I need to figure out why.
mith wrote:2. His reaction to thinking InflatablePie had been hammered... not the reaction I would be expecting for someone who has strong (?) reasons for thinking IP is scum.
Page 2, 3-4 slots hadn't chimed in at all, and only a few slots had made any significant contribution. Scum lynch or not, the hammer dropping in that situation was suboptimal.
If I post in here again, noose me because I'll flunk otherwise.
I haven't found the secretIPscumtell myself. I have some idea what sort of thing it could be though.
I was mainly getoutofrvs sheeping Thorprobtown after my attempt to wagon myself generated stunningly minimal interest.
I think Equinox is town; among other things "Town for being on the same wavelength as me" isn't logic I've seen scum use yet.
And by extension Thor is town for wavelength sharing with Equinox + his respectable townpref meta.
I'll be wary though since Equinox is like my worst false negative ever.
Klazam is scummy for "look at me I'm not sheeping" and lowhangingfruitlogic. VOTE: Klazam L - 3 I think
Sociopath is my first guess for a Klazambuddy for voting him & voting him again while not doing much else, but we'll see how things shake out.
@Mith: Haven't gotten strong reads out of most of the answers themselves; there haven't been a lot of "I would nevar pick scum!!' answers and I'd need to know teammembers to compare with anyway. Teamclaiming is clearly pro-town since it helps people read your team, but I'm guessing the issue is some combo of worries about success-lynches and giving away scummembers.
I agree with Equi about Chris, town read there.
I'm liking the Llama brothers thus far, though it's weaker.
Equi is working really hard, if scum, and I don't buy that.
I still like Pie for the rope - the buzzing bee who thinks sarcasm is 'srs tell, srsly' and Mith also go on my scum list.
Let's lynch one of them, I still have dibs on a Mith hammer.
I don't even know what this scumtell could be... It makes me a little happy inside, but at the same time I feel really left out. :(
@mith:
why do you not have a vote down? And what's the M word that you mentioned in your first post? ANSWER MEEEEEEEEEE
---
Alrighty, time for some good ol' non-flips VCA.
Spoiler: Vote Counts
InflatablePie (3): Equinox, Thor, Llamarble
mith (3): Socio, IP, DH
Chris (1): Sotty
Socio (1): DGB
Not Voting: Chris B, Klazam, LlamaFluff, mith, Sevei
^Last VC given by mod.
InflatablePie (6): Equinox, Thor, Llamarble, Klazam, DH, IP
Chris (1): Sotty
Socio (1): DGB
Klazam (1): Socio
Equinox (1): Llama
Not Voting: Chris B, mith, Sevei
^VC when I was at L-1. Note that Klazam had his vote on mith (L-3 at the time) before switching over to me a few posts later.
InflatablePie (3): Thor, Llamarble, Klazam
Klazam (3): Socio, IP, LlamaFluff
LlamaFluff (2): Equinox, DH
Chris (1): Sotty
Socio (1): DGB
Not Voting: Chris B, mith, Sevei
^VC prior to p4.
Klazam (4): Socio, IP, LlamaFluff, Llamarble
InflatablePie (2): Thor, Klazam
Chris (1): Sotty
Socio (2): DGB, Equinox
LlamaFluff (1): DH
Equinox (1): Chris B
Not Voting: mith, Sevei
^Current VC.
Let's concentrate on the votes on my wagon for now.
InflatablePie (6): Equinox, Thor, Llamarble, Klazam, DH, IP
Taking myself off. Since I'm only town by my own POV, think about this: whether I'm town or scum, there's a high chance for at least ONE scum member to be on my wagon, if not multiple.
Equinox, Thor, Llamarble, Klazam, DH
Equinox is probably town. His aggressive playstyle combined with his unwillingness to let such an early hammer go through has town motivation behind it.
Thor, Llamarble, Klazam, DH
Llamarble is probably town because lolgamechoicemeta.
Thor, Klazam, DH
At least one of these three players is scum. Guaranteed.
DH's posts are odd. In the post where he votes me, he sort of slings a small bit of mud onto Equi by asking why he's concentrating on me but not the other people with strong scum games (which is implying I have a strong scum game and I really don't think I do btw :x). His next important posts says that Equi could be scum... yet he's still voting for me, and my wagon was a wagon pushed by Equi. He does mention later that this doesn't necessarily mean he thinks Equi is scum. So his statement is either obvious (because everyone
could be
scum) or he was just saying that to fall back on if there's an Equi wagon later.
Don't really have a read on Thor yet. We have similar reads (aside from me being scum of course); that's about all I've noticed from him.
As for Klazam... his scumtells are flawed, and his position on my wagon is even scummier. Sarcasm is not a scumtell, and self-voting is not a scumtell. Actually, considering the setup, it would be extremely risky for scum to place themselves at L-1, especially early on in the game (not trying to defend myself with WIFOM, I'd think this if it happened with someone else). And rather than concede that his sarcasm/self-voting scumtells may be wrong, he keeps defending them with subpar reasoning. But to be honest, after a re-read, I'm less inclined to believe he's scum. Possibly bad town? Yes. Scum? Maybe not.
Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid
As for other players: I dislike LlamaFluff because of him defending me so hard. Combined with a gut scumread from the tone of his posts. mith is also a good vote, because we have tons of info to go on and he still doesn't have a vote down. Socio is most likely town on gutread alone. There is possibly one scum in the group of Sotty/DGB/Sevei by process of elimination, since I'm not extremely confident in both mith and LlamaFluff (although it's likely one of the two is indeed scum).
If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.
EBWOP: DH also jumped ship on the mith RVS wagon when mine gained momentum and is now on the LlamaFluff wagon once Equi starts pushing for him, leaving mine when Equi jumps ship and some of the suspicion on me seems to drop.
If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.
DH's posts are odd. In the post where he votes me, 1. he sort of slings a small bit of mud onto Equi by asking why he's concentrating on me but not the other people with strong scum games (which is implying I have a strong scum game and I really don't think I do btw ). 2. His next important posts says that Equi could be scum... yet he's still voting for me, and my wagon was a wagon pushed by Equi. 3. He does mention later that this doesn't necessarily mean he thinks Equi is scum. So his statement is
either obvious
(because everyone could be scum) or he was just saying that to fall back on if there's an Equi wagon later.
1. I never posted any suspicion on Equinox. I'm not calling her obv or confirmed town, however. In light of this, I'm going to ask questions to gain every little bit of reasoning.
2. EVERYONE could be scum. That's my point. I'm just not discounting Equinox.
3. Read the bolded. It was supposed to be obvious and it's something Llama completely passed over.
EBWOP: DH also jumped ship on the mith RVS wagon when mine gained momentum and is now on the LlamaFluff wagon once Equi starts pushing for him, leaving mine when Equi jumps ship and some of the suspicion on me seems to drop.
Don't like how this is an afterthought, for the record.
My mith vote was RVS because 1. I had just come back from work and saw that the game was underway, so I didn't read it and felt like I needed to get a vote out.
2. After reading it, Equinox had a good point.
Pie, I know you're smarter than this. Are you trying to fabricate stuff?
LlamaFluff
: You also ignored my last statement/question directed towards you.
I agree with Equi about Chris, town read there.
I'm liking the Llama brothers thus far, though it's weaker.
Equi is working really hard, if scum, and I don't buy that.
I still like Pie for the rope - the buzzing bee who thinks sarcasm is 'srs tell, srsly' and Mith also go on my scum list.
Let's lynch one of them, I still have dibs on a Mith hammer.
Why mith? You hadn't mentioned a thing about him before this post other than "I want the hammer if there's a wagon", and that was during an apparent RVS for you. What changed?
). 2. His next important posts says that Equi could be scum... yet he's still voting for me, and my wagon was a wagon pushed by Equi. 3. He does mention later that this doesn't necessarily mean he thinks Equi is scum. So his statement is