Team Mafia: White Flag Mafia


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Post Post #600 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:38 am

Post by Sotty7 »

Lurking... Are you serious? You're going to have to explain that one.

How exactly am I supposed to be awesome when a lot of the town seem happy to lynch down a list order rather than scum hunt? I have pushed my case on DH and he still isn't doing
anything
. I have responded to accusations against me and been trying to find scum this whole game. I could just hold up a mirror and your accusations would hit more at home being aimed at you. Where's your scum hunting? Where's your awesome? I'm seeing a distinct lack of either.

Ridiculous... This ksdhflsuh game.

EDIT: This is to Thor's 598
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Post Post #601 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:16 am

Post by DemonHybrid »

mith wrote:DemonHybrid: You should take a course in logic. "Amrun scum implies DemonHybrid scum" is not equivalent to "DemonHybrid scum implies Amrun scum". I am saying the former. There are several possible scumbuddies for you (LlamaFluff, Llamarble, Sevei at the top, in that order), but it doesn't really matter when we can just lynch you.

You keep saying I'm tunneling. I'm not. I have been voting for you most of the game because you've been my top suspect most of the game, but I have not been ignoring everyone else (
that
would be tunneling).

Setting up future lynches? If, by some miracle and despite the constant attempts to distract from your wagon, I am able to get you lynched, and you are in fact scum,
we win the game
. There is no future lynch. If I get you lynched and you are town,
I am saying Amrun is town too
- that's the exact opposite of setting up a lynch.

Will wait to respond re: my Chris B stance until you answer Equinox's question.


My point, though, is because you are so dead-set on me being scum (since you have literally mentioned it nearly EVERY POST since your first one, hence the tunneling accusation), and BECAUSE it is a white flag setup, do you suspect Amrun at the moment? THAT wasn't an accusation; that was a valid question.

Also, it's quite easy to say "This person is scum if DH is, and DH is my top suspect" and when I flip town, to go "ehhhhh well I'm still comfortable with that person because of the reasoning stated earlier". That's why I'm worried.
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Post Post #602 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:18 am

Post by DemonHybrid »

Equinox: I stated why it took me so long to put down a vote in #587.
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Post Post #603 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:26 am

Post by mith »

Amrun is still suspicious for Klazam's earlier behavior, and because of that plus his attack on me I think there's a good chance he's your scumbuddy coming to the rescue. He's still in my top 4, but wouldn't be if you were to flip town.

I have an easier time believing that you're feeling out the possibility of an Amrun lynch (after your earlier "I'm not sure what to make of it" read) than that you have any genuine concern that I'm trying to set up lynches (which doesn't make sense). But I'm biased.
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Post Post #604 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:42 am

Post by DemonHybrid »

Yes. Yes you are.
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Post Post #605 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:55 am

Post by InflatablePie »

One of my teammates has encouraged me to vote for Amrun. The same one that was telling me to lynch DGB yesterday.

Unvote, Vote: Amrun


Mith, I take it I can have some support here?

Postponing content as usual - only got a few hours of sleep; I've read everything but nothing's really sinking in. I don't like how DH avoids questions such as Equi's one to him about ChrisB; might switch to him if Amrun/Fluff wagons don't build. Although my Fluff read is heading towards neutral-town after 593.


Officially V/LA from roughly 6/7 (Tuesday) till 6/9 (Thursday).


Noted.
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Post Post #606 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:15 am

Post by DemonHybrid »

Sorry, I missed her first question.

Equinox wrote:DemonHybrid, I've got a couple more questions:

1) Chris B slipped earlier that he thought scum would have corrected their buddies' behaviors during the day, and we don't have day talk in this game. What do you think this says about his alignment?

2) You've been onto mith since the start of the day and haven't relented; why did you wait so long before voting him?

Thor665, an excuse to better admire your charming beard: What are your current reads of Sevei and Sotty7?


1. Are you sure he didn't mean team QT advice and not scum daytalk? That's not really a slip. He's scummy, but not for that reason.

In fact, that's sort of the antithesis of a slip. Like I said before, I think we would have been notified if scum have daytalk. I'd like ChrisB to tell us if he meant Team QT talk and not scum team daytalk.
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Post Post #607 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:29 am

Post by InflatablePie »

Wait a sec, just realized DH/KlazAmrun team would mean both scum are off the wagon -and- were nonvoters, which is fairly unlikely IMO... so I can't settle for either of them; they can't both be scum so I actually have to make a decision instead of a compromise.

ARGH. D:
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Post Post #608 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:32 am

Post by Amrun »

Explain how ChrisB is scummy, DH.

I like mith's answers to my questions and now I'm confused. :/
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Post Post #609 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:56 am

Post by DemonHybrid »

Chris B wrote:Can't believe it took me this long to notice that the ID boxes have gender on them.

While I'm in agreement with a lot of what Amrun says, I'm missing the argument that Sotty is town. I'm willing to hear a counter argument before I vote.

I also firmly believe DGB got bussed.


Weak assertion that DGB was bussed. "Waiting to hear a counter argument..." even though the Sotty read has been done to death already and he still hasn't given his input.

I see his question to the people who haven't hammered DGB yet as an attempt to gain town points, knowing what alignment DGB was going to flip. Seems a little too confident seeing as how a lot of people were on the fence with DGB. And his vote wasn't even on DGB at the time.

DGB and Chris could have very well been a scum vs scum. I'm also noticing that DGB was very lax and fencesitty when it came to mith, calling him a mix between town and scum but still talking as if she was on good term with him throughout the day.

Not to mention that Chris has had 15 posts so far today (with a few of them explaining why he hasn't posted).
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Post Post #610 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:00 am

Post by DemonHybrid »

*so far altogether

Posted that while going out the door.
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Post Post #611 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:38 am

Post by Thor665 »

Sotty7 wrote:How exactly am I supposed to be awesome when a lot of the town seem happy to lynch down a list order rather than scum hunt? I have pushed my case on DH and he still isn't doing
anything
. I have responded to accusations against me and been trying to find scum this whole game. I could just hold up a mirror and your accusations would hit more at home being aimed at you. Where's your scum hunting? Where's your awesome? I'm seeing a distinct lack of either.

Nerves...have been hit?

No, I'm not lurking and I am awesome, so clearly you're wrong there.

Who is the scum on the wagon, and what do you think of the idea of hunting for that scum as opposed to hunting for a scum off the wagon?
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Post Post #612 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:21 am

Post by Sotty7 »

Yeah nerves have been hit, you're voting me for a shit reason that is applied equally to yourself.

What wagon are we talking about here? DGB?
If
there is scum on her wagon I'd say it's mith simply from PoE and because I liked a lot of what Amrun posted when she breezed into the game. Everyone else on the wagon is a strong to medium town read for me. Off wagon are where the scummy people are:

Llamarble: Still not happy with his play from yesterday. Nothing he has done today has moved me much, but the VCA does make him look less likely scum at this point.
ChrisB: Sadly I agree with Equi that this guy is prob town still he's done Jack and shit all game.
LlamaFluff: Defends DGB yesterday and then claims today scum bussed her. Only votes me after backing himself into a corner and his case is poor. I don't necessarily find him scummy for the weak case, but for defending DGB, hell yeah.
DH: Mr Active lurker. Covered him.
Amrun: Klazam was scummy and I wish he had stuck around to answer questions before vanishing. Amrun is actually looking pretty good as a replacement though. Her mith vote is well reasoned and I can see where she is coming from. This slot is falling on my scum list.

I have lots of town reads right now but claiming that I am lurking is crap.
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Post Post #613 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:30 am

Post by Chris B »

Not been intentionally lurking. This week has been a screwed up one for me, but I'm about to go through quite a few players, starting with the case on Sotty7.

Incidentally, you can go through a single players posts with a drop down menu? AWESOME. That makes looking over plays a lot easier.


My case on Sotty relies primarily on DrippingGoofball.

She gave scum reads on Sociopath (328) and Thor (319).

She gave town reads on Llamarble once, (post 183), Equinox once, (305) and Sotty7 THREE TIMES(post 166) (post 178) (post 183).

Would scum really try to clear town for no good reason?

The argument was made earlier that one scummy thing done by Dripping Goofball was to make the 'alt' argument against me. I agree with this.

On that note: Sotty's post 20:

Vote: Chris B

Alt detected.



With regards to Sotty7 being the fifth voter on DGB. I've never liked the argument that scum are more likely to bus on a certain number vote than another one. So I'm not comfortable wth the reverse either, and the fifth vote being the obviously town position. There's still time in there to climb down on a vote.

She also makes the point in post 272 that:

I had forgotten about DGB's V/LA which sucks because now the power wagon lags as we wait for her to come back. Not cool.


Which strikes me as slowing down that vote.

Complete WIFOM in post 538 which can be summed up as 'Scum wouldn't vote DGB like I did'.

On top of that, she's ignored posts of mine twice now. This post here isn't the first time I've pointed out that the 'alt detected' vote. Also, I've already addressed the scum daytalk thing.


So yeah, it's enough for me to be unconvinced by the town argument.
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Post Post #614 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:05 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

InflatablePie wrote:One of my teammates has encouraged me to vote for Amrun. The same one that was telling me to lynch DGB yesterday.

Unvote, Vote: Amrun


Mith, I take it I can have some support here?

Postponing content as usual - only got a few hours of sleep; I've read everything but nothing's really sinking in. I don't like how DH avoids questions such as Equi's one to him about ChrisB; might switch to him if Amrun/Fluff wagons don't build. Although my Fluff read is heading towards neutral-town after 593.[/b]


*smack*

NO!

Ok, look. I will explain it more but this is a big no.

Who is scum with Amrun? Not many that is for sure, infact it basically ENDS with DH. Who is scum with DH? Well I can see more people being argued as a match there, so that means DH flipping town essentially means that Amrun is also town. People agree with this, so we ARENT lynching Amrun. Ever. If Amrun is scum, she loses when DH flips scum. If Amrun is town, DH flipping town clears her.

Lynch smart here. Amrun lynch ignores a lot of stuff.
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Post Post #615 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:24 pm

Post by Chris B »

Not convinced either way by DH. Constant tunnelling on Llamafluff all game, and not keen on how I become his suspect #1 as soon as I start making noise about Sotty7. That said, I can't really deny the lurking charge, although I think most would consider that I've had the 'newb doesn't understand game' card thrown at me pretty heavily at times in this game. However, DH did go after DGB (albeit on a lurking basis, rather than a scumhunting basis).

Going over the posts, it strikes me that DH does quite a bit of information instead of analysis, and seems to pick who he wants to be scum and sticks with it. Which isn't so much a scum tell as a weak play. Finding it awkward in that he's ringing true as town to me in the same way that Sotty's ringing through as scum. I can't put my finger on what it is though, which is frustrating. Another person that didn't read my explanation of my 'scum team slip', which is annoying.

Gut feeling is town, but if my attention could be drawn at anything specific, I'd be interested in taking another look.
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Post Post #616 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:29 pm

Post by Amrun »

DH, tell me how the ChrisB/DGB interaction is a bus. Explain it.
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Post Post #617 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:33 pm

Post by Chris B »

Kind of wish I hadn't taken my time now. This post has all kinds of imaginative bullshit in. 'I firmly believe that...' is a weak assertion? *slow hand clap*

For the record, I wanted everyone to outline their opinion on DGB because it looked like she was going to flip one way or the other. Whether she flipped town or scum, I wanted to be able to have everyone justify their actions, on the basis that it was a fixed point in the game that we could get information from. Instead, Thor derailed it immediately because....well, just because, really.

I didn't vote because, as I said at the time, I was wary of pulling an OMGUS. I also wanted to hear more arguments to help me make my mind up if I was in a position to hammer.

DemonHybrid wrote:
Chris B wrote:Can't believe it took me this long to notice that the ID boxes have gender on them.

While I'm in agreement with a lot of what Amrun says, I'm missing the argument that Sotty is town. I'm willing to hear a counter argument before I vote.

I also firmly believe DGB got bussed.


Weak assertion that DGB was bussed. "Waiting to hear a counter argument..." even though the Sotty read has been done to death already and he still hasn't given his input.

I see his question to the people who haven't hammered DGB yet as an attempt to gain town points, knowing what alignment DGB was going to flip. Seems a little too confident seeing as how a lot of people were on the fence with DGB. And his vote wasn't even on DGB at the time.

DGB and Chris could have very well been a scum vs scum. I'm also noticing that DGB was very lax and fencesitty when it came to mith, calling him a mix between town and scum but still talking as if she was on good term with him throughout the day.

Not to mention that Chris has had 15 posts so far today (with a few of them explaining why he hasn't posted).
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Post Post #618 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:35 pm

Post by Chris B »

More coming once I sleep. Trying to make up for any lurking, but literally just fell asleep in front of the laptop.
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Post Post #619 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:04 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Chris B wrote:Instead, Thor derailed it immediately because....well, just because, really.

It's because I'm awesome, actually. It's in my contract. Plus, your question looked scummy and so I derailed it like a superhero - deal with it.

@Sotty - she kicks, there's life in her yet!

Okay, so we've identified some lurkers and stuff, and you spent a bit of time commenting on weak pro-town players which is a little odd but I can understand the frustration there. I'm really not sure I buy mith as scum anymore. He's actually doing scumhunting today, and seems to be providing solid reasoning behind his conclusions. I'm not sure I really buy all his conclusions but they don't look suspect to me - do they look suspect to you or are you wanting to haul him up for actions of yesterday? What's the current mith=scum to your mind?

I understand you seem to have your top scumreads off the wagon, but you're not addressing the likelihood of why we should look off the wagon. I'm of a pretty strong belief that at least one scum bussed. Besides mith's attempts I haven't seen anyone try to disabuse that notion, and though mith has laid out his reasons pretty well I, personally, suspect they are silly and wrong - possibly at the same time. You appear to just be looking at top suspects in a general sense as opposed to looking for connections pertaining to DGB or to her wagon, thoughts?
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Post Post #620 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:20 pm

Post by Sotty7 »

Chris B Post 613 wrote:My case on Sotty relies primarily on DrippingGoofball.

She gave scum reads on Sociopath (328) and Thor (319).

She gave town reads on Llamarble once, (post 183), Equinox once, (305) and Sotty7 THREE TIMES(post 166) (post 178) (post 183).

Would scum really try to clear town for no good reason?

Can't defend this.

Chris B Post 613 wrote:

The argument was made earlier that one scummy thing done by Dripping Goofball was to make the 'alt' argument against me. I agree with this.

On that note: Sotty's post 20:

Vote: Chris B

Alt detected.

Perhaps you should re-read the start of the game again?

I voted you and accused you of being an alt for two reasons. One, if you were an alt I wanted to pressure you into revealing your true account and two; if you were new to the site, jumping into a high profile game I wanted to get a read on you ASAP. This is backed up by me being annoyed that Equi jumped in and protected you right off the bat. I speicfically wanted
your
reaction. But once I realized who you were and who's team you were on I realized you were prob town.

In the same breath, the difference between me and DGB in this situation is that once I realized you were a new player, I completely dropped the alt accusation. I don't mention it after my first vote on you. This is a big difference.

Chris B Post 613 wrote:With regards to Sotty7 being the fifth voter on DGB. I've never liked the argument that scum are more likely to bus on a certain number vote than another one. So I'm not comfortable wth the reverse either, and the fifth vote being the obviously town position. There's still time in there to climb down on a vote.

I have no idea what you're talking about here. No one has said that because I was the 5th voter I'm obvtown.

Chris B Post 613 wrote:On top of that, she's ignored posts of mine twice now. This post here isn't the first time I've pointed out that the 'alt detected' vote. Also, I've already addressed the scum daytalk thing.

?

The first you just said that I also commented on you being a possible alt. You make no conclusions or ask me no questions, what am I supposed to say? And what's this rabble about day talk? I read the discussion and didn't see a need to comment on it, I was happy with your explaination.

If you want me to comment on something specific you should ask me. I can't read minds, though I wish I could.
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Post Post #621 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:22 pm

Post by Equinox »

Okay, this is how I'm going to run this evening. I'm going to finish what I was doing last night because I want to spend Saturday finishing a really good but long book, and this is the game that's been preventing me from doing that. I am telling you guys this because I want to pressure myself into finishing and not drawing this thing out for an entire month. Sotty7's teammate would know what I'm talking about, probably.

BUT that's not what I'm here for. I am here to say that I am standing my ground and not lynching any of the following people you lot have on your lists: Amrun, Chris B, Sotty7, Thor665

I will actually eat hats if any of those 4 are scum. Reasoning or loud proclamations of "GUT!" will be provided upon request.

Stuff about Sevei: I did some looking up of Sevei's meta earlier and found that: a) she actually does believe in not revealing stances (:glare:), and b) she lurked hardcore in New Designer Mafia as town. Amrun's stated this already, I think. Thus, my case on her essentially falls to mostly null, and then I see people arguing for Sevei-town based on her reaction to the wagon and I think I will agree with it. Thus, I won't be entertaining a Sevei lynch today. HOWEVER, the Activity Overview says she's been silent for 2 days, and I'm getting annoyed. That slot needs a warm body ASAP; team, please deliver.

Other stuff: I'm torn on DemonHybrid at the moment. Team meta says kill him with fiery passion; on the other hand, DemonHybrid said he chose this game because he didn't like "playing in the shadows" (paraphrased) which would point to him taking this game. Noooow here's the fun part. He could be town. I'm getting townish vibes off him -- similar to Chris B, probably -- and my teammate's been saying the same thing for a while.

I'm going to go reread mith. My current stance on him is town, but I don't remember why and that's a sign I should reevaluate. That leaves me with... LlamaFluff and Llamarble. I've been twitching on LlamaFluff for a while, so I need to read there, too. Llamarble I got townish feels from his posting earlier in the day because of his attempts to scum hunt, but if I've narrowed things down this far, then I need to reread him anyway.

Actually, reading through that, no pairs among {LlamaFluff, Llamarble, mith} make sense to me, which means I have scum floating among the town reads somewhere. DAMMIT.

Hopefully this game will make sense to me when I'm done rereading. Pick my thoughts above as you please, seeing as I probably will need critiques.

Oh, and also, we are not lynching from lists. Thought about that overnight after seeing Sotty7(?) mention it and it's better if we go the traditional way about this. Something's bothering me about the list approach (not the fact that it was suggested but how it's being manipulated in general), so I'll have a look-see there later, too.
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Post Post #622 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:32 pm

Post by Sotty7 »

Thor: My mith scum read is wholly dependent on yesterdays actions and is only something I would be happy to lynch on if we flip both DH and Fluff as town. His echoing of me though a lot of the game has gotten my back up, but once I re-read the DH/mith battle of words I just come away believing that DH is scum nitpicking on town mith.

Thor665 Post 619 wrote:I understand you seem to have your top scumreads off the wagon, but you're not addressing the likelihood of why we should look off the wagon. I'm of a pretty strong belief that at least one scum bussed. Besides mith's attempts I haven't seen anyone try to disabuse that notion, and though mith has laid out his reasons pretty well I, personally, suspect they are silly and wrong - possibly at the same time. You appear to just be looking at top suspects in a general sense as opposed to looking for connections pertaining to DGB or to her wagon, thoughts?

My DH read is dependent on a lot of factors, one of which being his lack of a presence in the thread as DGB went down

My Llamafluff read is dependent on him defending DGB

My Klazam read was hinged on his reaction to the sudden DGB wagon that popped up

So I'm not getting what you mean here when I'm not using DGB's wagon. I'm just not looking for bussers.
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Post Post #623 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:52 pm

Post by Sotty7 »

TheButtonmen wrote:
D1VC11:

DGB (7): Socio, Thor, IP, Equinox, Sotty, mith, Sevei
Thor (2): Llamarble, DGB
Llamarble (1):, ChrisB
Sevei (1): LlamaFluff


Not Voting: DH, Klazam

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch.


I have looked at this final count so many times today and I'm still having a hard time seeing a busser. Even if there is a bus here, it's only likely to be one player and it's a player we don't need to lynch to win the game. Hence my focus off wagon.

When you break it down, 4/5 people off wagon are people I would lynch compared to 1/6 people on the wagon. And that 1 is way, way down on my list right now. It's not rocket science, it's just how may reads have fallen.
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Post Post #624 (ISO) » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:54 pm

Post by Equinox »

Sotty7, what do you think of LlamaFluff's explanation that scum would be playing to the long-term and bus early?

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