In the Court of the Gods (Game Over)

[Jack]

lol, NS has already revealed himself as the evil god.

After some chat I claimed to be scum and he straight up revealed himself.

[Jack]

vote:Lady lamb

[Jack]

I received a pm from NS asking me about my abilities, but I can't confirm that LL did.

[Jack]

I was hoping to get the deadline god so that I could make them as short as possible and force people to scramble.

@Mina: Yes, LL really is scummy. Don't remember why.

[Jack]

fos:farside

[Jack]

HEY WAIT

Shouldn't the scumgod know his mortal scumpals' identity? Does that change anything?

How could Jack trick NS to 'fess scum??? Unless NS was very careless and not paying attention?

THANK YOU

ONE PERSON IS NOT BRAIN DEAD

Which probably means you're the scum god

Anyway I honestly can't figure out whether those people pushing the "lynch jack to learn about NS!" theory are scum (they should know better) or town (they should still know better) at this moment.

vote:LL

Is still scum however.

[Jack]

Ok guys, why would knowing who the scumgod is NOT be worth it?!?

You know I'm town thus you are scum.

[Jack]

Oh, andrius's ISO is filled with obvscumness.

unvote, vote:andrius

[Jack]

You talk to the scum god and her scum minion like they are town, I'm not surprised you don't understand

[Jack]

It was a three word claim. MORE LIES FROM NS.

Lady you really not see any problems there?

[Jack]

I don't see the complication, no.

Please spell it out for me, if you think there is something I'm missing.

Worst case scenario, he turns up town, and we know which of the 3 gods is scum.

In your worst case scenario, I'm town and got NS-the-scum-god to confess to me by pretending to be scum. But the scum god would know I wasn't scum. So me being town says nothing about NS.

[Jack]

DGB, NS asked.

I can't speak for Jack's logical reasoning.

And from what I have heard of what Jack claimed (and yes NS told me what he claimed) it sounds kinda fake to me anyway.

But I made a 3 word claim and you just said he made a two word claim.

And that was my only pm to him.

HEY WAIT

Shouldn't the scumgod know his mortal scumpals' identity? Does that change anything?

How could Jack trick NS to 'fess scum??? Unless NS was very careless and not paying attention?

This is just more evidence that Jack is lying. One of them is scum, if it's NS then he would already know Jack was town and would never claim scum. If it's jack then I guess he assumed we wouldn't know that the scum know who the evil god is and vice versa so he could get away with it. The bottom line is that one of them is lying and Jack has better odds of being that liar. If we're wrong then we know who the scum god is which is totally worth it because we can get reads from him.
VOTE: Jack

GOOD GOD

Then why on earth would he claim to you like you said he did?

Amazing isn't it, anyway I really think you ought to be lynching NS tmh.

[Jack]

Yeah, that's logical

DO IT THEN

I WANT TO SEE YOUR VOTE

[Jack]

He claims you did.

So that's an angle we can pursue.

No he doesn't.

If we boil this down, and simplify everything, the facts still say that one of NS and Jack is lying.

So it's logical to lynch the one we CAN lynch, and garner knowledge this way, correct?

You really believe this

Isn't "IF WE SIMPLIFY EVERYTHING" a warning sign to you?

But at least your more townie now.

[Jack]

DGB are you seriously trying to call 2 posts "very busy site wide"?

[Jack]

NS also told me that you were one of his scumbuddies tmh. Are you? Because when I flip town, that means that ns is obv the scum god, and then either you or him is lying.

[Jack]

Andrius is scum, but it's something you have to see.

Lady L could be scum, Feysal could be scum (aka he of the 5000 words that could be summarize with "jack is slightly scummy").

[Jack]

TMH is at least consistent with the other games I've played with him (ongoing but I can say that much).

[Jack]

Time to start looking at other players...

lol.

Lady L could be scum, Feysal could be scum (aka he of the 5000 words that could be summarize with "Jack is slightly scummy").

I believe in arguments. I consider a statement of someone being scummy much less informative than if the statement included the reasons why. This is why I explain my thoughts and reasons, and want to hear the reasons of others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_figures

http://www.dan.sperber.fr/wp-content/up ... reason.pdf

[Jack]

Yes, the start of 279 is pretty absurd. Feysal says that if I had told NS it was a gambit, he would have known it was. But he knew it was regardless because he knew what he did and didn't say And for someone who goes on and on about "even with a 1/3 chance that so and so is the scum god" he dismisses the use of getting reads on one of the gods pretty quick. And all that from someone who was puffing about arguments and reason earlier.

I'm surprised that people who have played with andy before can't tell he's scum this game.

DGB's fixation on brokenscraps/tajo is weird.

[Jack]

No, Feysal=Feysal

[Jack]

I'M AMAZING

[Jack]

You're right, me=weird is very scummy.

[Jack]

I'm confused, who is Andy? Is it NS?

Andy = Andrius

[Jack]

Anyway, so far:

Andrius
me=weird
feysal
And maybe tajo if dgb is scumgod

Look the worst. And a surprising number of other people are looking good.

[Jack]

No, that's confused. There won't be any confirmation, so there will be no knowing, so there will be no powerful spot. You mention yourself that scum would love to get their god "cleared".

[Jack]

Although I do think it is a worthwhile subject, my reasons differ, mainly I want to see how they interact with people and how they use their powers.

[Jack]

If dgb doesn't grant equinox the BP, she's the scum god.

[Jack]

@equinox: I found several of LL's posts about NS to be scummy. First, not commenting, then the weird post where she just refers to him as "my god" and brings up the "he asked for my role" thing, and the last line of 22; overall it sounded to me like someone who had inside info on whether NS was the scum god or not.

Have no idea why I fos'd farside though.

[Jack]

I feel better about feysal.

Benmage is posting more elsewhere I think.

[Jack]

Spyrex has been awfully quiet, and his vote is still from his first post.

[Jack]

I agree with the couple people who have said it, it's just sound scumhunting to suspect someone and also suspect someone who you find to be attacking them in a suspicious way.

A) bussing
B) you can be wrong about the first person

[Jack]

Problem is "Pretty much the only thing we can do today is lynch Jack"

is

super scummy. It's the "my hands are tied!" scum excuse for a town lynch, a classic scumtell. I have suspicions that tmh always plays this way and genuinely believes things like that or I'd be voting him.

[Jack]

"Jack ( 3 ) Andrius, themanhimself, Zang,"

[Jack]

unvote, vote:drk

I will go with this for now, the andrius wagon is going nowhere.

[Jack]

Maybe the drk wagon will take off, that would be something.

[Jack]

Let's lynch drk.

[Jack]

unvote, vote:Andrius

We can lynch drk tomorrow.

I'm going to keep pretending these 2 person wagons are major wagons. WHY ARE THERE NO WAGONS THIS GAME.

[Jack]

PAGE 18

10 TO LYNCH

TOP VOTE GETTER HAS: 3 VOTES

ANDRIUS BANDWAGON STARTS WITH THIS VOTE:

[Jack]

DGB's attack on tajo was terrible.

@someone: 4

[Jack]

And I haven't talked to NS at all after the first day.

[Jack]

unvote, vote:drk

[Jack]

IMO, DRK was scummy since D1.
VOTE: DRK

You're scum too.

[Jack]

"Kill the following: CryMeARiver, DeathRowKitty, Feysal"

Yesss

[Jack]

Kingdom hearts.

[Jack]

Andrius and drk are still the two scummiest people.

[Jack]

Looks like drk is in his death throes.

Hito could be scum too.

I agree with dtm that fishy could be the scum god.

[Jack]

scum:

Jack
brokenscraps
Feysal
Benmage

K, Feysal is town.

OH MY GOD DGB, SO FAR YOU THINK FEYSAL IS BOTH SCUM AND TOWN WHAT KIND OF CRAZY ROLE IS THAT

[Jack]

lol, did corvuss just try and call out dtm for having only 14 posts?

[Jack]

mmm, I'm licking my chops over the concept of tmh being scum, that would even be worth a reread.

[Jack]

749.5

[Jack]

zoraster, please prod populartajo

Mod Note: Done

[Jack]

DeathRowKitty ( 6 ) populartajo,

Jack

, farside22, Benmage, Andrius, nopointinactingup, (L - 4 )

[Jack]

Andrius, as I was explaining to Hito.

I saw a couple things I didn't like from corvuss and hito.

Mina, SpyreX, and Feysal are kind of in limbo.

[Jack]

No, LL is town.

[Jack]

Fishy probably is the scum god.

[Jack]

So we have andrius--corvuss--drk with fishy as the scum god. Unfortunately we're lynching the least scummy of the three but oh well.

[Jack]

I'm going to put this out there.

Who claims BP in-thread except a scum who needs to explain why they're not getting NK when they should be target numero uno?

I'm bulletproof

unvote, vote:corvuss

I haven't read drk's posts since the omgus on farside, so I feel like this is probably best.

[Jack]

DTM doesn't need to say anything. Move along.

[Jack]

I told Jack that I will be targetting DRK tonight because I initally had a scum read on him. The game that both DRK and I played in was Kingdom Hearts. The DRK case is obvious.

I was told CMAR.

[Jack]

I don't quiiite understand the gambit thing but ok. I thought hiders died if they hid behind scum and that was the point of telling us your target ahead of time.

[Jack]

Benmage gets "outed as scum via gambit" and makes a fuss about disputing it by focusing on whether he was in a game?

[Jack]

Don't see how this is supposed to show NS as the scumgod.

But if we rid ourselves of corvuss, andrius, and feysal, and then look among benmage and hito and see if there's more from mina and spryex...we should be good. drk is adrift at the moment.

[Jack]

How does DTM gambit make me scum again?

If his whole premise is I lead the town as town.... Well thats fucking true...but unfortunately I wasn't in whatever games he was babbling about. But I do/will lead the town as town...but oh yeah...we're on D1.

Obviously because you LIED about not being in disgaeae.

[Jack]

Mina, move your vote.

[Jack]

Jack, I'll second hito that I want an answer to where your Andrius scum read came from. Or hell, did I miss where you explained where your hito scum read came from? Because both of those sound like they came from Mars. Again, I get succinct gut players, but your playstyle isn't an excuse to never show your thought process and just post random names as your scum list.

http://www.dan.sperber.fr/wp-content/up ... reason.pdf

[Jack]

Jack, tl;dr. 72 pages? not a chance.

Fine by me, I reserve my right to play as I do

[Jack]

Mina, care to explain that equinox scum read?

[Jack]

Care to explain that unvote mina? Backpedaling under pressure?

[Jack]

Yes I was joking. But I like your frustration.

My point is that you CAN'T just call players like Andrius and hitogoroshi such obvscum, and then refuse to explain why when called on it.

All evidence points to the contrary.

And hito is like 4th or 5th on my pseudo list.

I already refuted you via paper. Just accept it.

[Jack]

Sometimes when you catch scum you are just pattern matching based on your past experience with the kind of things scum say. But that isn't very accessible, it's a kind of low level process. And when people try to explain it, they

make up

reasons and they sound convincing to themselves, even though they aren't that good--or they decide that the reason they came up with is discredited and that the person is therefore null or town.

So basically, I don't force it. Generally the dumbest things I've done have been based on reasoning when I shouldn't have. At least when gut reads are wrong they are fluid.

An example would be invi-8 where I had moi as scum all day 1 and part of day 2, but then had to put a case together, the reasons I could make up weren't that great, and I ended up doing an ISO and deciding something like "scum wouldn't have pushed a case here at this point in the game, that's not scum thinking" which stuck

solid

in my mind. He won the game as scum later...after I died so I don't know if I'd have switched back or not.

Well this turned into md anyway.

[Jack]

Feysal as town gets to grips with the game right away, even when replacing in.

You thought drk was scum in ISO 24.

Scum god voting competing wagon.

unvote, vote:Feysal

[Jack]

Yes, that's a good book.

[Jack]

You know as well as I do that nothing is happening to Andrius unless you back up your talk somewhere down the road, so I suppose it's not the biggest of deals that you do it now.

Caring personally about my scumreads would be a bad idea anyway.

Not sold on Feysal-scum, but we'll probably need to eat this policy lynch sometime, and this is page motherfuckin 42 so lets get eugenic up in this bitch.

Unvote, Vote: Feysal

unvote

I'd rather see other peoples votes, and not keen on "well, it's page 42 so" lynch.

[Jack]

I don't want to lynch feysal today. We can do better.

[Jack]

I went back and checked some of drk's talk with farside, it IS pretty bad.

Reread some andy, he is still the scummiest.

Hito's iso 37 is scummy on review. If you've read enough of DTM to know that you don't understand the gambit, you've read enough to know that it is not solid information in any way. Feysal is not being lynched as a policy lynch so I don't like the "eat this policy lynch sometime" bit. This has been a GREAT 42 pages from my perspective but the scum must be hating it so his complaint is scummy.

I like both hito and andy over drk, have yet to look back at corvuss/tmh.

[Jack]

Corvuss is ok.

drk is probably ok too and doesn't mesh well with others.

I moved mina to town earlier I implied, but I will say so explicitly.

Benmage is much more probably scum as a result.

Andy and hito are first two scum.

4th scum is either a slot like nopoint's or someone who's managed to appear town so far.

Deadline can still be moved for the next two days, I think that would be a good idea.

[Jack]

Benmage, What is your opinion about dtm's tactic, and why were you so concerned about him saying you were in a game you weren't in?

*******

Benmage early posts "I can do a 180 and become a lead contributor" sounds like my optimism about my activity level when I start out a scum game thinking I'll be super active for once. Doesn't materialize.

ISO 15 is scummy.

The post of DTM's he quotes in 18 is a nice catch.

DRK vote comes out of nowhere.

His reasoning on TMH is very suspect because of [REDACTED]

I feel good about andrius--hito--benmage, with dgb as scum god.

I suppose I will put nopoint as the 4th.

[Jack]

and why were you so concerned about him saying you were in a game you weren't in?

Was that not the basis of everything?

No.

[Jack]

I was refering to this bit of DTM's:

Finally my analysis turned up that Jack and DRK are town. DRK called my claim stupid. Had DRK been scum he would have been silent. I quote: DRK hoped that I wasn't the doctor and was lying since I was putting attention on him. Rather then exploit a doctor claim DRK did the opposite and distrusted that my claim was true. Jack claimed the same thing saying that my claims could be modified due to NS.

I think it's very likely DTM is telling the truth, and while I don't understand specifically what lies he told to who, this part still seems pretty solid; at least enough to give DRK the benefit of the doubt for a day. How is this not solid information in any way?

Very interesting, you tell me, considering you said:

I'm gonna need it explained in more detail why DRK is cleared off of DTM's whateverthehellthing, because I'm not parsing the nitty gritty of his SWEETS GAMBITS, but whatever, I'll trust that DTM knows what he's doing.

So, what wasn't solid information to you? Why did you need to trust, what couldn't you parse, and what did you need explained about "whateverthehellthing"? Since the only thing you say NOW that you were unsure of is what lies he told to who?

That bit from DTM is very clear, it's just his read on what drk would or wouldn't have done and is very sketchy in fact. No reason for scum-drk to not call the claim stupid.

Feysal is not being lynched as a policy lynch so I don't like the "eat this policy lynch sometime" bit.

I think the things most people are calling scumtells from Feysal (specifically his extreme unwillingness to vote and bandwagon) are more newbie-playstyle-tells. That being said, his playstyle is inscrutable and anti-town. So, from my perspective, he's a policy lynch.

...

This has been a GREAT 42 pages from my perspective but the scum must be hating it so his complaint is scummy.

Oh come on now. I agree it's been a very good D1 but days have to end sometime and you know it as well as I do. If I had asked on you on page 40 if it was time to end the day you would've said yes.

"It's been a very good day one..." + "we'll probably need to eat this policy lynch sometime" =

Going from this:

Of Feysal/DRK, I prefer DRK. He's been very lurky except when called on, seems very passive and defensive, and his interactions with Tajo are strained to the breaking point.

To outright trying to lynch feysal over drk just because of dtm's read on him shows that you didn't really care about your drk "scum read", or about who gets lynched as long as it isn't a buddy.

[Jack]

drk, you're looking bad again now. Very bad.

[Jack]

hito, ignoring the terribleness of your reply because it speaks for itself, why are you

still

on the feysal wagon?

[Jack]

vote:drk

I forgot last night that skimming iso's isn't that useful.

[Jack]

JUST IN TIME

[Jack]

Damn that is not enough time in a day for me.
@Feysal: Where are you in your read of the game? Do you have any views that you noted from your read? Are you reading in iso? If so who have you read, why did you read them and what is your view on those you iso'ed.

Oh look competing wagon's

Look at his iso 14.

[Jack]

The more I look at who's voting who the more I think that must both be town. Very unfortunate.

[Jack]

unvote, vote:benmage

Go go go!

[Jack]

And that was meant to be a vote.^

WTF are you doing 2 days before deadline with 2 competing wagons?

Being scum.

[Jack]

I could say the same about you, you know. >_>

We should be lynching benmage.

[Jack]

Of course we can turn it around to benmage. It really ought to be andrius, or hito, but people probably won't vote them for whatever reason.

And even trying and failing could give us something useful.

[Jack]

I don't think the wagons would look and feel like they do if one of them was scum.

[Jack]

The scummy people are split up and don't seem to care who gets lynched.

[Jack]

Posting from my phone, but goddamn it!

Most of Feysal's recent defence posts felt kind of neutral and meh-ish, but that last one was actually super townish.

A couple of the earlier ones were too

Um...DRK's at L-4. I suppose it can't hurt to do this:

VOTE: DeathRowKitty

l-2 and dgb still needs to do her thing.

And Andrius's catch-up post was so weak that I lost my town read of him.

+1000 cool points

[Jack]

unvote, vote:Andrius

Yeah this isn't happening either but so what.

[Jack]

Maybe DRK will be scum after all, that would be nice. The people on his wagon aren't all

that

bad. I feel better.

[Jack]

That's a weird comment.

Are you still suspicious of Feysal?

[Jack]

Why, he's caught up now, and mina had catchup syndrome too.

[Jack]

DRK, Corvuss, Spyrex.

You agree on two of them.

[Jack]

unvote, vote:drk

[Jack]

I was

going

to hammer.

Oh SURE

we believe you

[Jack]

That explains Spy's not caring much then.

NS did LL hint anything about having a role to you?

vote:andrius

[Jack]

mina/faraday makes a sweet hydra. Short posts and big posts.

[Jack]

Faraday is awesome.

[Jack]

Is nopoint confirmed as town by the hider? He could have been roleblocked I thought. Don't see why he's a town read.

We'd better hope the spyrex kill was a 1-shot vig before we say gg though.

From the rest, after hito and andrius I guess benmage is most suspicious. Corvuss is town.

[Jack]

Jack you should switch to Hito too, Andrius won't be getting lynched today.

I'm going to switch at the hammer.

lol, I would be ignoring dgb in the qt too. But I suppose NS is the scumgod after all.

[Jack]

*silence*

[Jack]

If hito nopoint and andrius are all scum then 4/5 of dgb's group was scum, hilarious.

[Jack]

Jack, on the other hand, is probably scum. He called Benmage scum for lying. The problem is that Benmage wasn't; he had a valid concern with DTMaster, since he really wasn't in either of the Disgaea Mafia games. What this means is that Jack did not check before waving his finger around, and that's what hasty overexcited scum do. (I got lynched as scum for this very tell. Pretty awesome.) Further, he calls out Mina for backpedaling when she retracted her "case" against me before he himself backpedals when Mina counters him. "LOLJK" is not a valid excuse.

Literally NONE of this happened. Also I want to know, if you're town, how come scum didn't kill you last night like I expected?????

fos:equinox

[Jack]

I think it’s a big deal that tajo isn’t posting much in his QT. From the sounds of it, DGB is pushing conversation in her QTs hard. DGB is obviously town. Not talking to her is something scum have much more reason to do than town.

Town doesn't have any good reason to talk to dgb in the qt. What's the use of it?

[Jack]

Yes I expect more from andrius, his town play seems to be markedly different than his scum play, trader mafia is the last scum game I had with him.

Nopoint's play is similar to him as scum.

I sometimes check to see if someone is lurking.

[Jack]

If it was true it would have been interesting, and I thought dgb was the scum god, can't recall which of those pushed me to check it.

[Jack]

Equinox, all of your points on me involved taking posts that were clearly facetious at face value.

The way this day started I though hito would have been lynched by now, very disappointing.