1119: The Might of Mordor: Game Over

[AlmasterGM]

/confirmatory

[AlmasterGM]

SpyreX is 30.

Olllllddddddddddd.

[AlmasterGM]

ATTENTION: ALL PLAYERS

IF YOU HAVE A GOOD REGULAR POWER, DO NOT NOMINATE YOURSELF FOR SUPER POWER.

Only ask for the ring if your regular power sucks but your super power is awesome. This will result in an overall increase in town power.

DON'T BE GREEDY.

That is all.

[AlmasterGM]

Your note that I am attempting to direct the town has been noted.

[AlmasterGM]

@Esurio - the latter. still, though, I think there needs to be some calculated method to the madness.

@quadz08 - it doesn't work like the person doesn't get NK immunity (as far as I can see). That was my first thought when I saw the ring thing: why the hell wouldn't the scum just nightkill who got the ring?

[AlmasterGM]

You don't have a case to react to.

But you do have VOTES.

Vote: singersinger

I like VV's argument, actually (although calling it a case is a bit of an overstatement).

To his credit, his vote is still on me, BUTTTTTTTTTTTTT he said "scum dont have superpowerz"

THEN I CALIMED NOT TO HAVE THEM.

Then he just imbues someone else. HE DID NOT UPGRADE HIS RVS VOTE TO A REAL VOTE, OR SAY "wow claimed scum" OR ANYTHING.

Yeah Gandalf can go.

Ehhhh this just seems like gandalf being an idiot.

[AlmasterGM]

And with this many PRs there is sure to be a VIG who can handle the IDIOTS.

[AlmasterGM]

Ok, I'm changing my mind about Gandalf. His arguments are becoming too pointed to be dumbtown and are more likely to be coming from scum.

1) This kinda offbeat theory that scum don't have super powers / cannot utilize the ring. This possibility did not occur to me AT ALL. Maybe it did for other people, in which case I'm wrong, but it smells like insider info.

2) The whole "ring makes scum action immune, so nobody targets ringbearer." Same as above. It is just not something that occurred to me AS TOWN.

3) Why the hell would we give the ring to a random NULL read and not a strong TOWN read? Or someone claiming to have a good power?

[AlmasterGM]

Where's the Gandalf vote??? NONE.

I don't see why I have to vote Gandalf to say he's scummy. I only have one vote, and I like my vote on singersinger more.

Do you have anyone as a STRONG town read at this point? I don't. The closest to that that I have is a leaning-town on esurio. But my point is that WE WANT GOOD PLAYERS TO HAVE THE RING. NOT STUPID TOWN. And I don't know anything about esurio, so I don't trust him to use it well if he is town. Thus, I vote for SptySpy because I DO think that if he is town, he'll know how to use it.

There's also no requirement that we imbue RIGHT NOW. Just wait a bit and see what reads develop, then make your pick. It's that simple?

The idea of imbuing somebody just because you think they will use it right IF THEY ARE TOWN is terrible. We are not giving the ring to anyone who is not to the town side of center. Preferably, they will be very far from the center.

[AlmasterGM]

And to be honest, I don't trust anyone who claims that they have a strong superpower. Why would town claim that? It's basically telling the scum "O HAI GUIZ I HAVE REALLY AWESOME ROLE NK ME PLOX?"

This is equally dumb because I'd be willing to bet MOST IF NOT ALL supers are better than regular powers, soooo in 99% scum are probably going to be like, "wow, who should we kill tonight, I don't know, MAYBE THE PERSON WHO PUBLICLY GOT THE RING THAT DAY."

Now presumably there's a doctor BUT STILL.

[AlmasterGM]

Also in reviewing your posting, I don't necessarily take issue with your first post for trying to direct town, I take issue with it as an essentially meaningless post. I always find it suspicious when people post as if they are giving game insight, and then you really look at it and all they are doing is stating the obvious. Which is basically what your first post was.

So let me get this straight - you are voting for me because my first post of the game didn't say anything relevant?

Hellllooooooooo scum in need of an excuse to get on the wagon.

[AlmasterGM]

I'm glad we managed to catch the whole scumteam this early.

Who is the whole scumteam?

[AlmasterGM]

gandalf is SO bad I don't know if it even qualifies as VI anymore. It's like obvscum-VI. If that exists.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't understand what scum-Plum gains from lying about knowing who you were.

[AlmasterGM]

THIS IS GETTING FUCKIGN RIDICULOUS.

"WHY WOUDL SUCM""

WHY WOULD SCUM

"WHY WOULD SCUM"

1. IVE ANSWERED THREE FUCKING+ TIMES WHY SHE WOULD.
2. WHY WOULD TOWN? HOW ABOUT FUCKING THAT? WHY WOULD TOWN LIE ABOUT SUCH A THING?
3. THERSE NOW SO MANY OF YOU GODDAMN CLOWNS I CANT TELL WHICH IS SCUM AND WHICH IS A FUCKING MORON
(VV IS A MORON OF COURSE)

You know, Fate, I actually went back and looked to see if you had answered it. This is what you had to say on the subject.

She's lying scum backtracking to cover her tracks.

I SAID WHAT THESCUMPLUM MOTIVATIO WWAS CLEAR AS FUCKING DAY.
ITS BOVIOUS WHY SHE LIED.

IF YOU DONT THINK TRHESRESW SCUM MOTIVAITON IN BUDDYING UP TO ME BAY CALLING ME TOWN THEN YOU CANT PLAY THIS GAME /OUT GOOD SIR OR CLAIM SCUM OR DIE

So the first time you just say "she's lying scum to cover her tracks" ... and then every other mention is just a reference to the "obviousness" of it all or the time that you "already explained it." You've basically drowned out the original premise of your argument with a ton of yelling and build up, which doesn't look so hot when the original premise isn't actually as strong as you keep saying it is.

So yeah, I'm still not seeing why scum-Plum would lie about knowing who you were. I'm not saying she DIDN'T lie (maybe she did, I don't really know), but I don't see why, as scum, she would say, "heheheh, if I lie about this, something good will happen!" It seems more likely that she was just dumb, which isn't a tell.

Now, instead of going into hyper-mode about how stupid, idiotic, and scummy I am, just take a few minutes and actually EXPLAIN the link your argument is missing. If you're right and I'm an idiot, then cool, you helped improve the quality of the game by making me see your rationale. If you're wrong, then we don't mislynch. Win-win.

[AlmasterGM]

Plum is scum and your lates post has NOTHING, not ONE THING in it besides "why is plumscum fate" AGM, that means you get death soon.

This is a terrible line of logic; just because I'm not SHEEPING AND IMITATING YOU IN A DESPERATE ATTEMPT TO BE COOL like gandalf does not make me scum.

Anyway, I get your point on the Plum case now. I'm STILL a bit hesitant because it personally took me a few pages to realize who you were … but then again, I did not mod a whole game with you in it. Additionally, given the context (which you could have just referenced instead of dancing around it for 3 pages, but whatever), it does seem like pretty bad backpedaling.

Unvote, vote: Plum

AGM - Do you think Edge is scummish or Townish? One word answer. Pronto.

Nullish.

[AlmasterGM]

Also,

Imbue: AlmasterGM

[AlmasterGM]

Not apologizing for not sheeping + actual sheeping = I'M SORRY FATE I WASN'T SHEEPING YOU BEFORE I'MA MAKE IT UP TO YOU.

This equation is so convoluted I don't even know what you are talking. The argument wasn't clear to me before. It was clarified. I agreed with it. I voted. How is that sheeping?

You voted to Imbue yourself? It's majority needed to Imbue. You just put me at L-1 and didn't vote one of the top Imbue wagons, giving yourself a vote which is either pointless or counterproductive. Way to keep things actually moving. I've been voting you and I'm damn glad I've been voting scum nearly this entire blasted game.

I'm town, so no. And with regards to the imbue, there's still a ways to go on any particular wagon, so I don't see why I need to pile on.

Really really really really DO NOT LIKE AGM's vote on Plum. "Hey, I suddenly get it... but I still don't really get it... but I'll vote anyway. L-1 for the hammer!"

I never have and never will get the whole "L-1 fear." L-1 is not a lynch. It is L-1. If somebody quickhammers then fine, they are scum, but me voting is not scummy.

Ironically, if I had NOT voted Plum, I'm sure someone would have come in and said, "DERP DERP AGREEING WITH THE CASE BUT NO VOTE? WTF IS WITH THAT." Or something similar.

[AlmasterGM]

Agreeing with the case sudden-like with no clear understanding of why you suddenly changed your mind about it is worthy of more than a derp derp. With or without a vote. But yeah, the sudden L-1 vote doesn't make me feel any better about you.

I am unsure of exactly how I am supposed to rhetorically qualify comprehension of an already-made argument. Previously, I did not understand the reason for lying as scum. I did think it was silly that you would forget (having modded the game, and all), but silly != scummy. Fate, however, pointed out that it would let you backpedal out of calling him town early. That seems like a significant enough motive to be worth lying about to me.

[AlmasterGM]

You call L-1 "a ways to go"?

We are talking about different VC's. Last time I checked, nobody was L-1 away from being awarded the ring. If they were, then fine, I am wrong, but I did not think that was the case.

[AlmasterGM]

Right, but, and correct me if I'm wrong here, if we reach a lynch, but no one reaches an imbue "hammer", no one gets the ring.

You're right. My point is that 1) L-1 is not a lynch, so we can still give someone the ring and 2) there is no OBV-RINGWAGON (e.g., nobody on the ring VC is at L-1/2).

[AlmasterGM]

Mina + MagnaofIllusion? God, the walls will be UNBEARABLE.

@gandalf - why is SpyreX town? Why is quadz08 not town?

AGM, your L-1 vote combined with imbuing somebody with no support whatsoever is BAD, as mentioned earlier by a couple of players. That in addition to the aforementioned lack of reading and general scummy feel I get from you means:

Why?

[AlmasterGM]

There is no overlap. None. It is NOT a coincidence that everyone imbuing quadz isn't on the Plum wagon and I'm calling megateaparty on a Plum-scum flip. Mega.

…you know, that's pretty absurd. So absurd it's ACTUALLY POSSIBLE.

I'm all up for an AGM wagon.

vote: AGM

Of course you are, VV. Of course you are. Wagon moarrrrrrrrrr, pl0x. What is your read on Mariyta?

@Everyone: Comments on SpyreX plx~!

Well, obviously I'm inclined to think he is town, since he is reading me correctly instead of just stupidly yelling, "HERP DERP AGM IS SCUM" like everyone else is.

@Gandalf - who are your top 3 picks for scum and your top pick for town?

[AlmasterGM]

L-1?

FFUUUU.

Guyz I am le town. All these argz are bad. There isn't even anything for me to say other than, "no, you're wrong."

---

Mariyta reads like Town due to LOTR maf meta. That said, she needs to die ASAP due to WIFOM potential.

Given that, explain this:

??? This is so weird. Why shouldn't we take advantage of the imbue? Even from a statistics point of view, it is likelier that we'll get Town on the Ring. I don't think we should even be thinking about the consequences of imbuing scum at this stage because it's still D1. Assuming that this is a balanced game, it is the best time to pick Town to get the ring(Max results.) and the best time for scum to take the ring(won't instalose us the game.)

Unimbue Fuck it. No one gets my vote.

[AlmasterGM]

Actually, there is something I can say. And there's really no reason for me NOT to say it. Nothing that I can think of, anyway.

My superpower modconfirms me as town. Legit modconfirm, not like "teehee it causes this which causes this which strongly infers town." it is 100% legitimate, fresh, satisfaction or your money back modconfirmed town.

So imbue me tonight and see the light.

[AlmasterGM]

let someone else do what?

[AlmasterGM]

if you want the full claim i can give it right now, but it's pretty boring sans modconfirmage.

[AlmasterGM]

Because if I just say, "modconfirmed town," I guarantee you one of the VIs would roll in here and say, "LOL ITS NOT REALLY GOING TO BE CONFIRMED TOWN. HERES DUMB EXAMPLE 1/2/3."

So I said it's modconfirmed town.

Actual modconfirmed town. No games. Preempting the stupidity.

[AlmasterGM]

Yes, that is absolutely all it does. I pick two people, Andrius modconfirms me as town to both of them.

[AlmasterGM]

It wasn't a hammer, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was trying to.

[AlmasterGM]

name: shadow lord

power: I can send an PM to the player of my choice that says whatever I want. the contents are not mod-confirmed.
super power: friendly neighbor to two targets.
passive: if I die, my spirit returns the following day. I can talk and vote in the thread as if I was alive.

[AlmasterGM]

AGM,

ONE more question.

Is your normal ability ACTUALLY useful?

As you can see, not incredibly. Which is why I wasn't that hesitant to claim my super.

Though I'm curious as to why you would want to use it so soon, AGM. Was it because you were getting closer to a lynch? I really hope you choose wisely…

Welllll my original SECRET TECH PLAN was to save until endgame and then come out of the woodwork and PWNZORZ scum as confirmed town and then use my ARISE FROM THE DEAD ability for DOUBLE PWNAGE after they NK'd me … but it seemed like that wasn't going to happen. In any case, since the primary function of my ability is to save myself from being mislynched, claiming it at a time when 1) I was facing imminent death and 2) we weren't really sure who to imbue seemed like a decent move.

Wait, NEIGHBORIZER? As in the people can talk to each other? Or they just get to know you are town?

No, it's not neighborizer. The regular power is just I send A message to ONE person and they can't talk back. the super is equal to friendly neighbor.

[AlmasterGM]

I need to try playing mafia high sometime.

[AlmasterGM]

I can target anyone, scum or town.

With regards to WHO I target, I don't think it really matters. Even I target two scum, it's not like they would be able to fake not receiving the results PM, as that lie would be quickly revealed on D3 after you lynched me and I flipped town.

[AlmasterGM]

Edge, I SERIOUSLY doubt super powers can be roleblocked. If they could, wouldn't that pretty much defeat their purpose entirely? Scum would choose to roleblock the person with the super EVERY. TIME.

In any case, even if they can't, my powers suck otherwise, so might as well make the scum burn their roleblock on me instead of people with legit abilities (which was what my suggestion in the beginning hinted at).

[AlmasterGM]

I don't REVIVE, I can just talk and vote for the day after my death. I am still technically dead and do not count towards the lynch threshold.

otherwise yes, the lylo shenanigans would be too hot to handle. I thought about that myself.

[AlmasterGM]

What the fuck is this?

Why didn't you self-nominate then and say "I haz good super powers"

because my super power isn't that good EITHER, so if I was able to play a good town game without my super and eventually get NK'd without EVER needing the ring, that would have been optimal. unfortunately, that didn't happen, so I had to pull the failsafe.

[AlmasterGM]

MY SUPER STILL CAUSES ME TO DIE.

ITS NOT A REVIVE.

[AlmasterGM]

You are thinking about this all in terms of how YOU WOULD PLAY. You would want to be modconfirmed town so your ego could inflate to x10000 and you could run around confirmed for 2 days CAPSING at everyone. And nobody would be able to stop you because you'd be confirmed.

But that isn't actually OPTIMAL. Mod confirming yourself as town is relatively insignificant in my eyes. If I could have just come across as town in the first place, then I would never need my super. Somebody better could have gotten the ring, and I would have been NK'd/had good reads all on my own.

BUT OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T THINK OF IT THAT WAY. ALL GLORY TO FATE. ALL THE TIME.

[AlmasterGM]

I mean passive.

you know what i fucking mean.

[AlmasterGM]

this is so stupid I don't even know what to say

[AlmasterGM]

Because

1) it was clear good town game had already failed at that point.
2) I figured additional votes from Plum and the VV/VI-squad would be coming my way in the future for changing my mind because that's how they ALWAYS work. Oh look, that happened.
3) there was no good, clear wagon for the imbue, and I figured confirming myself as town when I was currently questionable sliding to scummy would be useful.

You can rage all you want. I've watched your scum and town play closely many times. You are wrong more often than not.

[AlmasterGM]

Ok, here is as clear of a claim as I can give without quoting my role PM. I thought my claim was clear before, but whatever.

REGULAR ABILITY: Andrius send a message with the contents of my choice to the player of my choice. The contents are not modconfirmed.
SUPER ABILITY: Andrius modconfirms me as town to two target players of my choice.
PASSIVE ABILITY: For the first day after I die, I can still vote and talk as if I was alive. I do not count towards the lynch threshold (e.g., if there were 7 players alive plus me, it takes 4 to lynch, not 5), but my vote DOES count towards the lynch.

That's it.

My power does not cause me to die. That is stemming from a simple typo where I said "my super does XXX" when I meant to say "my passive does XXX."

also, gandalf is a fucking moron.

[AlmasterGM]

Confirmed town is, in fact, pretty powerful. Your passive ability is at least as powerful, especially if it comes with a vote, because you become a confirmed townie who CAN'T BE KILLED. :

I can be killed, it's just that my spirit sticks around for A DAY after my death and I can still talk/vote as if I were alive. Once a full day has past since my death, I'm 100% dead.

[AlmasterGM]

Flavorwise, it's probable that scum do not have superpowers. Just saying.

If you were scum, and you were about to die, but your superpower was something super awesome like

[AlmasterGM]

Regardless of whether what gandalf is saying is valid or not, I think my post succinctly proves that gandalf does not actually form coherent thoughts or process information himself, he just spews copies of whatever Edge is saying.

[AlmasterGM]

PREVIEW EDIT: @AGM - Did Gandalf sheep that thought process or not? In any case, the point is still valid.

Almost certainly. If his stance begins as "scum don't have superpowers," a stance he defended pretty staunchly and then switches to "scum have awesomesauce supers," something HAS to have occurred inbetween the two. That "something" was Edge suspecting me.

Notice specifically that when Edge imbues me, gandalf imbues me too and doesn't mention the theory at all. He only constructs the theory when he needs a reason to sheep.

And there are a dozen other examples of this too, I'm sure.

[AlmasterGM]

VV is always wrong, so the fact that he thinks I am scum should automatically mean I am town.

That historically consistent theorem aside, the argument is bad because it presumes that town are ALWAYS reckless raging morons. Yes, I decided to triple-check the "hammer" vote. DOESN'T MEAN SCUM.

Also, to be honest, I wouldn't even be surprised if VV is making all of this up ex post facto and actually meant to throw the hammer.

[AlmasterGM]

There is no boat, it's just Edge yelling incessantly like he usually does and then the rest of the VI-brigade rushing to agree with him so they don't become his next victim.

VV, your arguments are just wrong. There is no real way to disprove them, but they are still wrong. When this game is over you can add another tally to the 1029419214935202 times you've been wrong in mafia before.

[AlmasterGM]

And I'm serious about that boat. Look at it. It's DISTINCTLY divided into the following groups:

PRO-AGM RING: All the logical, rational, townies in this game.
ANTI-AGM RING: Edge (aka rabble rouser), Plum (aka scum), and all the VIs.

[AlmasterGM]

Day One, Lynch-Count Eight

AlmasterGM (4): Plum,

Katy

, VasudeVa, gandalf5166
Plum (3): SpyreX, AlmasterGM, Edge
Mariyta (2): quadz08, MasterSpy
MasterSpy (1): Mariyta

Not Voting (2): Sevei, singersigner

Day One, Imbue-Count Eight

AlmasterGM (5): AlmasterGM, SpyreX,

Katy

, Mariyta, quadz08
quadz08 (3): Plum, Edge, MasterSpy
SpyreX (1): gandalf5166
Katy (1): VasudeVa


Not Voting (2): Sevei, singersigner

The large, bold votes do not compute.

[AlmasterGM]

Oooooh, dissonance in the Edge hydra. Don't you guys have a quicktopic?

[AlmasterGM]

Oh good, the hate is back. I was beginning to worry we might be friends.

What is your opinion of who teh scumz are? Do you agree with the Fate campaign on Plum?

[AlmasterGM]

I happen to agree with Katy/??? said that AGM is not 100% scum, but he is not the ideal imbue target today. MoI said it thats right,

wtf is this bullshit, you were JUST YELLING about how fake my claim was and that I was "obviously scum."

V/LA untiL Sunday.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't get the hohum wagon at all. As far as I can remember, Mariyta was never that scummy - she just kept saying she would get around to posting (but never did). At the point where she's replacing out, that just equates to busy in my mind.

I've never played with hohum before. I completely agree that he's is being a total asshat, but I think I remember reading another game where he was like that too, so I don't see how it's a scumtell.

[AlmasterGM]

Yeah Plum needs death.

Plum scum ==> probably SpyreX scum.

Another person who needs death: gandalf. The level of sheeping has entered the DANGER ZONE.

singersinger is le town.

It would also be cool to see what non-high VV has to say.

[AlmasterGM]

Oh hey deadline.

[AlmasterGM]

You know what I think is funny? Literally all the people who think I'm scum have hardly ever played with me(SpyreX is the only one who has even played with me at all, IIRC). Somehow I doubt that that's a coincidence.

So what are you saying? That you are always act like a scummy moron and we should thus give you a free pass?

[AlmasterGM]

Three people I'm willing to lynch today:
AGM, SpyreX and MasterSpy.

This is a bad list of three.

[AlmasterGM]

Why?

Because I'm not scum and SpyreX-scum should be dependent on flipz. MasterSpy I am "meh" on in general, have to look at that a bit more.

And serious business time, I don't mind RC and Fate not posting in the hydra put posting in the hydra and then PRETENDING TO BE THE OTHER ONE is waaaaaay too confusing. plz stop.

[AlmasterGM]

thx andrius

[AlmasterGM]

What the fuck just happened. I LOL'd IRL at Andy's picture, but serious business a GIANT DISTRACTION 2 days before deadline is not exactly GOOD STUFFS.

Anyway, Plum wagon is go. VV is still being a moron, who would've guessed.

I'll try and get better reads over the night.

[AlmasterGM]

A scum aligned mason? That means we're dealing with two scum factions?

Also anyone know how long she was voting singer? I smell bus.

Helloooooooo scum.

MORDOR IS TOWN.

Vote: hohum

[AlmasterGM]

...what.

[AlmasterGM]

You're claiming Vig?

Stop playing TEE HEE HEE games and explain yourself.

[AlmasterGM]

Why did you Vig Katy?

[AlmasterGM]

claim flavor pl0x

[AlmasterGM]

Also yes, you are a greedy motherfucker. That Vig could have been put to much better use (on people like gandalf, for instance).

[AlmasterGM]

Also, wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

You posted before I did.

Why didn't you claim in THAT post instead of waiting until after I called you out on your scumslip?

[AlmasterGM]

It didn't gain us SHIT, you killed a mason instead of killing scum.

The people suspecting you had every right to suspect you because your play was SCUMMY. Maybe you should just own up to that instead of being like, "guys I was so obvtown how could anyone who suspected me ever be town too."

WAIT.

And nowwww you want the doctor to claim TOO?

FUCK THAT.

You are scum. You slipped. You die.

[AlmasterGM]

Why didn't you claim in THAT post instead of waiting until after I called you out on your scumslip?

Lynch me if you don't believe me.

Will do.

[AlmasterGM]

Also where's that flavor claim, huh?

Did Andrius give you guys that "generate fakeclaim ability" where you have to PM him to get the fakeclaim, so you have to wait for him to reply first?

[AlmasterGM]

You're a fucking douchebag.

"It's protown to Vig people who suspect you."
...
"Somebody's voting for me, so I'm self-voting and not posting for the rest of the day."

If you're town you're getting put on my permanent blacklist.

[AlmasterGM]

OH NOES I CAN'T PLAY IN YOUR SHITTY GAMES WHATEVER SHALL I DO

I was actually talking about playing in games with you, not you playing in games I'm modding.

And yeah, my games are so shitty. Everyone hates them. JUST KIDDING THE PAST THREE GOT SCUMMY NOMS, LOL.

Either that or you're scum and you don't REALLY want me lynched because that will out you.

Don't want you lynched? I am first in line to have you lynched. I understand PERFECTLY that lynching you will confirm/deny what you are saying.

My point is that your play is still terrible. If you're town, you should be trying to convice us you are town WITHOUT us having to waste a lynch on you, not just sitting back like an arrogant prick and saying, "either believe me or lynch me." The fact that you then self-vote and REFUSE TO CONTRIBUTE FOR THE REST OF THE DAY is actually one of the most anti-town things I have ever seen on the history of the site.

HELLO!@$(*!@%( AGM!*%*!(@(%! I KNOW YOU'RE F5'ING THE SHIT OUT OF THIS THREAD. RESPOND, SCUM!

Look, I know you're upset that you slipped by accident, but you don't have to take it out on me. You could exit with style.

[AlmasterGM]

Singer, vote hohum now.

He claimed scum on the last page.

[AlmasterGM]

@AGM: I can't wait for the end of the game so I can sit here and tell you how much of a retard you are.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

You are going to tell me SHIT.

Even if I'm TOTALLY WRONG, you are still being a huge arrogant prick. I remember this being a problem in the /in-vitational last summer, but I thought it might just be a one-time misunderstanding, or something.

BUT NO. It's just you. For evidence, we need look no further than:

I'll be prod dodging the rest of the time I'm in this game. I will not be contributing anything substantive to this thread.

This should be worthy of a ban from mafia games, imo. If you're town I'm actually going to follow up on this.

[AlmasterGM]

How about we just fucking lynch him?

High fives all around.

Yesssssssssss.

You guys are missing that he claimed scum in his first post by not knowing Mordor was town.

He was so super scummy by not claiming in his first post and only claiming post pressure.

The rest is jus gravy. Delicious delicious gravy.

[AlmasterGM]

Vote: Force replace hohum

Vote: Hohum gets banned from mafia games

Vote: Never play with hohum again

Am I missing anything?

Not that any of this matters - hohum has practically claimed beat scum at this point on multiple levels (Fate's catch being the newest hawt example to add to the list).

[AlmasterGM]

P.S. For those who asked, SpyreX was the receipt of my messaging ability (he has confirmed this).

[AlmasterGM]

he's the mod he can do whatever the fuck he wants.

[AlmasterGM]

hohum is clearly trolling at this point.

[AlmasterGM]

(Hint: the right answer is the latter)

This.

I think the whole hohum claimed scum thing is getting lost in all this speculation nonsense.

We can sort this out later AFTER we deal with the obvious.

[AlmasterGM]

Oh, also,

Imbue: VV

[AlmasterGM]

WHAT ARE YOU DOING

[AlmasterGM]

because hohum claimed scum

[AlmasterGM]

Notice

drmyshottyizsik joins the game.

My heart skipped a beat.

<3 U 2 AGM - Andy

ANYWHO, imbuing me at this juncture is a pretty dumb idea. Imbuing VV seems like a pretty good idea.

Lynching hohum is the only idea.

However, I am totally down to lynch hohum. No fucking way we're imbuing VV, though. No fucking way.

Then MOVE YOUR VOTE, Sir.

Any more dumb questions?

[AlmasterGM]

OH HEY VV ALREADY SAID THAT HE WAS A ONE-SHOT BULLETPROOF BODYGUARD AND HE HAD TO CHECK TO SEE IF THAT SHOT WAS TAKEN AWAY SO CLEARLY HE DIDN'T NEED THE RING TO NOT DIE.

WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN

[AlmasterGM]

Fate.

Fate.

Fate.

No.

[AlmasterGM]

He claimed the Katy kill(which would earn anyone lots of ire) as soon as he got on the thread and it's not LyLo.

Wrong. He got on the thread, slipped by called Mordor the scum faction, and then claimed after I called him out on it.

[AlmasterGM]

Also, even on the .0000000000000000000000000000001% chance he is town, he still needs to die because 1) He is playing in an anti-town manner by refusing to post. If anyone disagrees with anything he says, he just tells them to "accept it or lynch me." 2) He has terrible Vig policy and is likely to shoot more town before this game is over.

But who am I kidding, he's NOT TOWN.

[AlmasterGM]

WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN THIS WHOLE TIME, VV?

Katy, The Witch-King of Angmar (Mason for Mordor), Decapitated Night One!

A scum aligned mason? That means we're dealing with two scum factions?

[AlmasterGM]

Above is the FIRST post after Andrius posted daybreak.

Then I called him out on it.

AND THEN he "claimed" Vig. And by claimed, I mean he did this elaborate little dance before eventually claiming to be a Vig. He has still refused to claim flavor.

He's confirmed scum. Pay attention.

[AlmasterGM]

MasterSpy is town. Even the Magna half.

gandalf damn son you want that ring baaad.

[AlmasterGM]

WE ALMOST NEED A FRIGGING MASSCLAIM AT THIS POINT SO WE CAN BREAK ANDRIUS' POORLY DESIGNED "LOLNOVTS" SETUP

I actually thought this could be a possibility, so I did a little digging:

Hey so I'd like a couple (1-2) reviewers to look over the Lord of the Rings mini theme I plan on running soon.
(Note: Its sort of a sequel to the large Plum and I ran, so it doesn't exactly follow a set film/novel.)
Flavor knowledge isn't necessary, BTW.

edit: Ok cool I have 3 people. I think that's good.
Thanks to Kit, Reck, and Empking (or his alt's alt?)

Meh. Empking is pretty on top of his shit, so probably not gonna happen. Unfortunate.

[AlmasterGM]

Dislike.

This isn't facebook. But, like I said, the PM button is that-a-ways. -Andy

[AlmasterGM]

PMs are cool, but I want to find out HERE who complained about Edge. Scum have an incentive to get Edge kicked out of the game.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't see much more to talk about... I want to hear Dekes' perspective on Hohum especially, but otherwise, I'm ready to hammer.

Agreed - while I want Dekes to post, I don't think anything he says is going to turn me off to seeing hohum dead in a pile.

[AlmasterGM]

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

More Fate.

More dead hohum.

Today is a good day.

Also, I will be taking credit for the "eject half of the hydra" solution, kthx.

[AlmasterGM]

*shrug* if you suggested it first... then that's all the more reason not to waste time imbuing you.

Now tell me,

Quadz is scum right?

If that's because I'm obvtown, then yes.

Anyway, if hohum flips scum, then quadz is obvscum for spending all day trying to divert the wagon and then hopping on at the very last second. If hohum is town, quadz's behavior was dumb, but I don't see why it is particularly scummy.

[AlmasterGM]

So did a bunch of other people.

Speculating PRs in an all PR-game is meh. There are only so many PRs.

Is he actually scummy for any reasons other than those?

[AlmasterGM]

Quadz' refusal to disclose reeking of "I don't want to be locked into a claim"

I admit that does look pretty bad.

[AlmasterGM]

VV, you're either stupid town or stupid scum

*yawn* so what else is new.

[AlmasterGM]

oh yeah let me comment on that hohum flip:

Spoiler:

LOL

[AlmasterGM]

You fuckers keep calling me stupid, but I FUCKING TOLD YOU Hohum was Town. Whose stupid now?

doesn't fucking matter he needed to die

what DOES matter is your shitty use of night actions

[AlmasterGM]

What the hell is going on in here. Just skimmed and nothing made sense.

Legit reading happening shortly.

[AlmasterGM]

Speaking of AGM...did you send a message last night?

Yes.

Actually, I won't claim until AGM gets in here and fucking tells me what I want to know.

Um, what do you want to know, exactly?

Anyway.

I agree with SS scum. For the other two scums, I am torn between SpyreX and gandalf. SpyreX's interactions with Plum remain distasteful. The claim is also … yeah, "MOONBEAMS." It's highly non-verifiable and strange. I don't like it. Gandalf's play I don't like at all. The entire game it's been the whole "I'LL SHEEP AND BUDDY AND POST IN ALL CAPS SO BLATANTLY I CANT BE SCUM!" game. In particular, this sent me totally the wrong way:

Unimbue: VV
I just wanted to see your reaction. Yeah, Fate's town. Something else is going on. I don't know what, but it is.

…

No, I was scumhunting you by completely flopping for no apparent reason. The VV imbue just made the flop more total. Townfate would ignore it and figure it was fine so long as I was voting for the right people. Scumfate would feign interest and start interrogating me.

Gandalf hasn't scumhunted anyone the whole game, so this "test" reeks of him slamming the car into reverse when he realized he was doing something he shouldn't be. Second, the analysis itself is bad - if you skip the FAILMETA and think in basic terms, why would scumFate want to lynch his pet dog at this stage in the game? You don't get rid of people you can manipulate until you need to scapegoat at the end.

Sevii's claim is odd, but town. Fate is town. I'll buy that VV is town as well. I am not good at reading Mina, but the MoI half (the half people seem to be saying is scummy) is coming off as town. And I think that's it.

[AlmasterGM]

It's SORT of confirmable. However, you said that it doesn't stop stuff from happening to YOUR target. Soooo, I can imagine this quite vividly:

MOD: FATE KILLED NIGHT 3
SPYREX: OH DAMN I ENABLED FATE

or

SPYREX: I ENABLED VV
VV: LOL I GOT ROLEBLOCKED

or something similar.

[AlmasterGM]

mmm yeah thats true nvm

[AlmasterGM]

Did you get anything special at any point during D2?

Ah, I did, actually. I haven't used it yet, though. Was that from you?

[AlmasterGM]

...also, just to make sure we are on the same page, the thing you are talking about was delivered at the end of N1, not during D2. But it's close enough.

[AlmasterGM]

SOOOOOooooo wait, singersinger, did you said LOS ITEMOS?

[AlmasterGM]

I dunno.

The flavor was REALLY specific.

And I also don't get why the fuck scum inventor would target town.

[AlmasterGM]

It was a one-shot roleblock. To use it I would have had to forgo my normal night action.

I opted not to use it last night because 1) all PR game means higher chance of hitting town than scum and 2) all the protecting meant that even if a no-kill did crop up, it wouldn't conclusively point anywhere.

So I was planning on using at some potent point in the near future.

[AlmasterGM]

Oh and yeah, the flavor strongly (although not entirely conclusively) suggested the sender was Shelob. The item was named "Shelob's Cobweb," and Shelob's name was mentioned in the delivery flavor.

[AlmasterGM]

Hmm. the primary reviewer on this setup was Empking, right? He reviewed both my Advance Wars games. Two comments. 1) He didn't look at flavor and 2) he didn't really look so much at the results of a massclaim so much as he did compare town power to overall scum power in a vacuum. This style of reviewing is backed up by the "point balancing system" he recently posted in MD. Thus, they may have thought this kind of setup was okay, so long as the mafia had some strong PRs themselves ... when in reality, it would be very broke post-mass claim.

[AlmasterGM]

AGM, when can you use yours?

Any night.

[AlmasterGM]

Wait, you aren't Shelob?

Well then scratch the confirmed town by flavor thing.

The role itself is still pretty confirmy, though.

[AlmasterGM]

No way MasterSpy is a swordsmith with a "WITH SWORD" guilty on Hohum. He didn't act like he had a guilty on D2. Cops usually go hyperagressive and instantaenously vote the guilty(maybe claim later if no one believes him). It took him multiple wall posts before he voted. That's not how you act with a guilty result.

I have to agree with this. Seriously, you had a guilty AND hohum was acting suspicious as fuck and you didn't vote for him right out of the gate? I mean, I know you like to waffle, but this is kinda beyond that.

Also, MasterSpy and SpyreX's role sound a bit mutually exclusive. Two roles that hunt for people in an already all-PR game? That's pretty strong. The fact that this "Gandalf" figure hasn't been outed already makes me extra skeptical of his existence.

[AlmasterGM]

AGM did you message something out of Romeo and Juliet with the word literally appended to it? Mina failed to mention we got a PM from the Mod

I did message you, but the quote wasn't from Shakespeare … brush up on your LotR trivial.

[AlmasterGM]

beep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

what do you want to know?

[AlmasterGM]

also fate tell me what to do

[AlmasterGM]

I want to know if your gift is in any way useful to town right now. I honestly don't know what it is, or how good it is. I'm planning on gifting Fate tonight.

And why haven't you used it yet?

LEARN2READ

It was a one-shot roleblock. To use it I would have had to forgo my normal night action.

I opted not to use it last night because 1) all PR game means higher chance of hitting town than scum and 2) all the protecting meant that even if a no-kill did crop up, it wouldn't conclusively point anywhere.

So I was planning on using at some potent point in the near future.

[AlmasterGM]

it took me like 90 seconds to find that quote so I wasn't going to not post it.

and you haven't told me what to do yet so if you want to be MR SIR COMMANDER LEADER SIR maybe you should give better directions

[AlmasterGM]

"I have read and understood my night action tonight. I endorse this product/and or Service."

Imbue: Gandalf156
Vote: Sevei

[AlmasterGM]

Doesn't matter what kind of logic it is. Fate's town so we're following his plan.

[AlmasterGM]

Good point. Let's look at people who aren't playing nicely:

1) YOU.

Well, ain't that interesting.

[AlmasterGM]

HRMMMMMmmmmmm.

I want to say there's no way VV is telling the truth, but given the Ring mechanic ... it's possible the scumkill becomes unblockable if they get it? Which MIGHT justify the existence of two protective roles.

I say we roast the second most likely scumbag and then take care of VV tomorrow.

[AlmasterGM]

I'm going to go with Sevii.

MasterSpy's claim seems legit enough given that SpyreX's was fake. VV we're holding until tomorrow. I'm town. You're town. Singer is the most precarious on the line, but I'd venture to say if she was SCUM inventor, she'd be targeting her buddies and not pulling this LOLTOWNTARGETS game.

Sevii's claim is also the strangest.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking she is some obscure 3rd party role. That would certainly fit well with the OP nature of this game (e.g., Andrius doesn't want 3:10 or 4:9, so he makes it 3:9:1).

[AlmasterGM]

Also I just totally failed with my spelling of "Sevei." Plz ignore.

[AlmasterGM]

SpyreX would make her target you, you know that.

This is true.

But I'm still putting $$$ on Sevei.

Vote: Sevei.

Imbue: VV

VV imbue also has the added benefit of there being no kills tonight. VV's not going to NK himself and everybody else will be protected.

hehehehhhahahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[AlmasterGM]

not everyone else.

One person has to stay unprotected with VV....

For that I propose Sevei.

if we're not lynching vv or sevei who are we lyncin

[AlmasterGM]

stop stalling and just SAY IT

what bad could POSSIBLY happen?

[AlmasterGM]

when people who are actually town ask me to claim, then i will

[AlmasterGM]

sevei is smelling like hawt 3rd party right now

[AlmasterGM]

I didn't do anything last night. I forgot. <_<

[AlmasterGM]

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah i know

[AlmasterGM]

I really don't understand why we are arguing.

Fate's confirmed town.

The plan is confirmed win.

Seriously, why this is not on cruise control is BEYOND me. Everybody's flailing around in the mud when we could be sitting back, relaxing, and enjoying the ride.

Attn: Fate: Post

AGM: VOTE X NOW

and I'll do it.

[AlmasterGM]

P.S. I did skim the past 2-3 pages, FYI. With the exception of FATEWINMODE.EXE, nothing seemed really relevant.

[AlmasterGM]

stuff

No. Fate's confirmed town, you're not. THIS MATTERS MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE. The end.

Unvote, Vote: Sevei.

[AlmasterGM]

There's nothing TO CONTRIBUTE. Seriously, THINK. ABOUT. IT. Any plan concocted BY THE SCUM is going to have a chance for SCUM VICTORY. That's the point. Otherwise, the scum would be playing against their wincons. Since we don't know who the scum are, the absolute BEST PLAN is the one coming from the CONFIRMED TOWN. That way, we know that the persons intentions are good and that the plan is absolutely working towards town victory.

Now, if the person who was confirmed town had a record of being a total moron, then we could talk. But Fate is competent enough that it's worth it to trust him to make all the necessary calculations rather than GAMBLE ABOUT WHO THE SCUM ARE.

THIS IS FUCKING MAFIA 101. LEARN IT. THE NEXT PERSON TO WHINE THAT IM NOT CONTRIBUTING OR AM SHEEPING IS GETTING SMACKED.

[AlmasterGM]

Ummm...is that not a lynch?

[AlmasterGM]

Sooo VV is scum, right? 'Cause wasn't singer supposed to be protected?

[AlmasterGM]

lol VV scum gets owned by broken setup.

derp derp deeeerp

[AlmasterGM]

I can't wait to hear him try and weasel his way out of this one.

Are we gonna bother with the no lynch or just proceed to victory?

[AlmasterGM]

LOL VV.

"AGM AND FATE ARE SO RECKLESS AND COCKY."
...
"VOTE: MASTERSPY"

If we're supposed to play it slow, then where's the no-lynch and imbue me, VV? Hmmm?

You might as well just claim scum now and preserve your honor.

[AlmasterGM]

I can't wait to hear him try and weasel his way out of this one.

Are we gonna bother with the no lynch or just proceed to victory?

We're gonna bother.

I mean I know you're not scum Andrius but I still have SOME SHRED of respect left for Andrius that says your role shouldn't be in this game.

But if it is, "lolwin"

excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, you confused my name with andrius.

but i guess you can be forgiven because of this win.

Vote: No lynch

Imbue: AGM

[AlmasterGM]

Unvote: No Lynch

[AlmasterGM]

lol yeah VV, Andy decided to put in 2 protective roles instead of 1 protective role and 1 investigative.

and he also gave the last scum the ability to double roleblock and roleblock imbue AND kill in one night.

and the whole "legolas having a bow and not a sword" thing was all a giant red herring.

and thus u are town.

yeah i buy it

LOL

[AlmasterGM]

You may direct complaints about your loss here.

[AlmasterGM]

"Theme game Balance: When caring about flavor TOO MUCH hurts games: Feat. victims Fate&AGM"

[AGM Approved]

[AlmasterGM]

So basically you're saying that because we are presuming there isn't a double-roleblocking, imbue-overriding, nightkilling mafia member, we're trying to outguess the mod?

[AlmasterGM]

The funny thing is that even if VV is right, he gets absolutely no bragging rights and/or credit because every logical indicator in this setup points to him being scum.

YOU LOSE, VV.

Moving on.

[AlmasterGM]

VV, the problem is you keep acting like you are really, really smart town who has figured all this out and Fate and I are just stupid. That's not the case at all. Even if you are town, the only reason you have figured any of this out at all is you know your role PM, so you know MS is confirmed scum. Fate and I don't know that. From any logical, rational perspective, you are the scum. Feel free to make a thread bawling about it in MD afterwards, but the fact of the matter is plain and simple. In order for you to NOT be scum, we'd have to ignore the following:

1) There is a double-roleblocking, imbue-overriding, nightkilling mafia member remaining. Remember, both singersinger AND you were stopped - and you had the imbue. That's some intense power right there.
2) If the imbue can be overridden, why didn't scum do so before? It doesn't make sense.
3) Andrius chose to include 2 protective roles instead of 1 protective and 1 investigative role.
4) The kill flavor is all meaningless, despite many other players being confirmed by flavor.

...in favor of what? Your word that you used your ability and some average dayplay? It's simply not logical for us to do that.

Look, you didn't play a terrible scumgame. In fact, you played pretty well. The bus on SpyreX was nice, as was your defense of Sevei. And hey, we've imbued you TWICE now. That's pretty impressive. So when Fate and I sit here and say "derp derp you're the scum," it's not because you screwed up ... it's because the setup was broken. I feel bad and I sympathize with you, but we can't just ignore what is in front of us. Everything logically points to you being scum. EVERYTHING.

So please stop acting like Fate and I are idiots. Even if we are wrong, we aren't stupid and we aren't doing it for the lulz. We are just rational townies making the only move we logically can: lynching you.

[AlmasterGM]

That was the greatest post ever, Mina. I had already RAAAAAAAAAAAGED into the textbox before I saw your ninja.

Vote: VV

Comeon, Fate. We can win right now.

[AlmasterGM]

Yeah I'm right here.

[AlmasterGM]

Unvote.

But how am I in a 1v1 with VV? If VV isn't scum, it's obviously MS...

[AlmasterGM]

My only comment will be that as soon as VVscum is dead and the game ends I will be posting his "I don't do this as Town" slip in the MD "Funniest Scum-slips" thread.

Seconded.

[AlmasterGM]

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[AlmasterGM]

FLAWLESS VICTORY.

[AlmasterGM]

Your plan is flawless because it answers for VV's stupid MS theory.

[AlmasterGM]

God Fate, put your vote back down. If I was scum, MS wouldn't have a guilty on VV.

Vote: VV

[AlmasterGM]

Unvote.

[AlmasterGM]

Because (if I'm bein 100% honest) I believe VV as town >_>

...wut.

[AlmasterGM]

Vote: VV

[AlmasterGM]

WHATEVER VV, WE'RE GONNA LYNCH MS ANYWAY

[AlmasterGM]

Because (if I'm bein 100% honest) I believe VV as town >_>

...wut.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

HIS CLAIM OUT OF NOWHERE, HIS SPYREX SUSPICION, IVE BEEN ASHAMED TO SAY IT BUT IVE HAD A TOWNREAD ON VVCLOWN SINCE DAYFUCKING 1.


BUT IVE JUST WANTED HIM LYNCHED OUT OF SETUP SPECULATION.

BUT SAID SETUP SPECULATION GREW WEAKER AND WEAKER AS MORE "DERPS" AND "LOLS" FLIPPED.

BUT NOW ITS FINE, UNLESS YOU"RE SCUM WITH MS YOU CAN ROLEBLOCK HIM AND WE GET A DOUBLE LYNCH.

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

YOU. SHOULD. BE.

[AlmasterGM]

LOLCOPPPPTER

[AlmasterGM]

You're dead, VV.

You can claim now, it's ok.

ANDRIUS GET IN HERE SO WE CAN YELL AT YOU ABOUT THE SETUP.

[AlmasterGM]

DURRRRHURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

SO THEN THE GAMES GONNA BE OVER EVEN THOUGH MS IS SCUM AND GETTING ROLBLOCKED?

YOU SEND IN THAT PM YET AGM?

DO IT AND TELL ANDRIUS TO GET THE FUCK OVER HERE

Yep.

[AlmasterGM]

WTF

ANDY WHY

posting from phone real rage later

[AlmasterGM]

Everybody needs to stop name calling. Given our situation, lynching VV was the optimal play. The following is mafia 101:

If you have a choice between following the direction of confirmed town and not-confirmed town, you choose confirmed town. Every. Single. Time.

I really shouldn't need to explain this. As much as it sucks that Fate was wrong, like I said before, there's no way I could know VV was telling the truth. So I voted as necessary. And it wasn't JUST because it was Fate, either - VV, if you had been the confirmed town, I would have been following your plan instead. Fate did the best he could under the circumstances.

Also, I don't see how me not roleblocking blew the game. Even if I had roleblocked before, we would have been in the exact same boat. In fact, we would have been even worse off because the game would have DEFINITELY been over at the 4-player juncture. If anyone is responsible, it would seem like it's Singer. My PRIMARY reason for viewing VV as confirmed scum was the fact that, if VV were telling the truth, the scum would have to be able to DOUBLE ROLEBLOCK. There was no way I could buy that. If Singer had gifted Fate as planned, then not only would VV not look like confirmed scum, but we would have had the daykill available.

As far as the MODERATION of this game goes...

I thought it was operated very smooth and the game was fun, but there were quite a few areas that could use improvement. 1) The person with the ring should not have been roleblockable. That resulted in waay too many issues at the endgame. 2) There was WAY too much reliance on flavor. E.g., "Magna's claim didn't make sense because all the Nazgul have swords!" Any time you make an argument like that, it's not fair to the people who don't know the flavor. 3) Most importantly, I would NOT have resolved the roleblocking thing the way you did. Yes, that is what the wiki suggest and what I suggested you do IF you were to force a tiebreak, but given that a) You were already letting MS take two actions b) I had the one-ring and c) Roleblock preceeds NK on the NAR list, I think the kill should have definitely been roleblocked. Leaving it up to "lol who F5'd faster" is just not very satisfying.

[AlmasterGM]

Not that MasterSpy didn't do a good job. Your play was lovely.

Also, hohum needs to be banned from playing mafia.

[AlmasterGM]

Everybody needs to stop name calling. Given our situation, lynching VV was the optimal play. The following is mafia 101:

If you have a choice between following the direction of confirmed town and not-confirmed town, you choose confirmed town. Every. Single. Time.

Annnd this is why we lost.

AGM, in your textbook..does it still say that the earth is flat?

I'm pretty sure it says it's round, but I'm not sure how that's relevant. I did not have the benefit of knowing your role PM, like you did. Yes, from your perspective, MS was confirmed. But that's only because Fate and I were obvtown and

you knew your alignment

. From my perspective, it could be either you OR MasterSpy. And since singersinger didn't gift Fate like she was supposed to, the only way I could believe your claim was if I believed both you AND singer were roleblocked. It just didn't look good for you.

Tell me VV - if you had been in my position and voting for Magna meant believing that there was a DOUBLE-ROLEBLOCKING AND NIGHTKILLING mafia player in this game ... would you have done it?

[AlmasterGM]

@Hito: I followed the game too. Andy was going to post immediately, but I reminded him to find pictures. So, thats basically my fault--not his.

I was trying REALLY HARD not to post here but, seriously, all this rage makes everyone look like idiots.

TOWN: YOU LOST. NO MATTER THE REASONS, GET OVER IT.
SCUM: TOWN MAY HAVE BEEN STACKED, BUT YOU WON. PAT YOURSELVES ON THE BACK AND STOP RUBBING IT IN THEIR FACE

Sorry, but ... who are you? The outcome of this game was essentially determined by moderator ruling. At the point where many people, some of whom are well respected on this site, consider the ruling made to be poor, a discussion is absolutely in order so a different standard can be set in the future. So no, I'm not going to just get over it. We're going to talk about it.

[AlmasterGM]

AGM, you lynched me first, and I flipped town. Didn't that make you question Fate at all? I also have a problem with the "always follow confirmed town" rule when it's obvious the confirmed town is dead wrong and obv-scum is sitting there laughing through it all. There was a time in D4 I wish everyone would have just stepped back from the game and taken a collective breath and tried to work things out calmly, but Fate's impassioned, near tears plea to lynch me undid any hope of that; if I had been more on the ball, maybe I could have beaten Fate to the punch there and changed things a bit.

Finally, sure, mistakes were made all around, but ultimately town lost because Fate (and AGM) would not acknowledge that there were holes in his plan and he therefore lynched someone (me) he has repeatedly stated he never believed to be scum. I don't care if Fate was confirmed, AGM, you should have gone over his plans with a fine tooth comb and seen at least the possibility that he was missing something. The acrimony in endgame is not because of the loss; it's because of the way Fate and AGM so condescendingly insisted they were right when they weren't (something AGM still won't acknowledge; props to Fate for doing so) and the way they treated people. (See paragraph one.)

I'm going to ask you the same question I asked VV:

If you were in my shoes, voting MS over VV would have meant believing that there was a double roleblocking, nightkilling mafia member in the game. Would you reached that conclusion?

[AlmasterGM]

You've already "talked" (a.k.a. bitched) about it for like 7 pages. And I'm a friend of Andy's. Also, the roleblocking thing was in the rules. Masterspy did so first, scum won.

If you don't like the conversation, you are free to not participate. I could understand the Mafia being upset about the discussion, as they might feel it was detracting from their deserved win, but you weren't even the game, so you really have no right to pass judgement. In any case, however, I think fact that the conversation has been going on for seven page demonstrates that this IS an important matter that should be discussed.

As for it being in the rules - I'm not disputing that, but it doesn't make it any less bad of a rule. In my opinion, it should not have been resolved that way in the first place.

[AlmasterGM]

What about your vote on me? Before VV vs. MS was really an issue? Why me over MS, when the only logical third-party I could have been was survivor?

First, answer my question.

Second, you could have any third party role. We didn't know. All we knew was that your claim was odd given all the other roles. Moreover, given that we THOUGHT we were backing MS into a confirmed-wall, taking care of you at that juncture seemed like a fine move.

Again, it all seems incredibly obvious from your perspective because both Fate and I were clearly town AND you knew your role PM. You had that one extra piece of information that was key to the puzzle. I did not have that advantage.

[AlmasterGM]

And no one had a double-action all game. Where did this "double-RB" thing come from again?

Oh, that was nothing against you. How that works is as follows: singersinger was SUPPOSED to gift Fate and VV was to protect some people. Since Fate didn't receive a gift AND someone VV was supposedly protecting died, the ONLY way VV could be town was if the scum had a double-roleblocker nightkiller on their team (e.g., they blocked singer's gift, they blocked VV's protect, AND they killed). Since that seemed absurd, I concluded the obvious alternative: VV was lying.

singer not following the plan wasn't something I considered. X___x.

Also, I still don't understand why AGM and Fate keep saying that I made a mistake in gifting VV...no one alive knew who or what I did until the game ended. There's no way to know I didn't gift anyone until then. If I was roleblocked, I still could've gifted Fate and he not get it. The speculation that I messed up because I "didn't follow the plan" is skewed.

See above, please. Fate not getting the gift was a HUGE argument in favor of me voting VV. If I had actually had to choose between MS and VV straight up, the decision would not have been so clear cut.

[AlmasterGM]

Also, I agree with all the hohum hate. For like the 103050th time, if we had just not vigged obvtown and not lynched the Vig, this town would have been waltzing to victory.

[AlmasterGM]

AGM: Reads go first before speculation. Plus, I totally pushed 100% valid arguments on why I wasn't scum for the SS death(you two ordered me to protect her, Why would I kill her? among other things.). Don't understand why you went with the flawed speculation over my glaringly obvious Towntells especially after the Sevei town flip.

Dude, comeon.

Double. Roleblocking. Imbue. Overriding. Nightkilling. Scum.

You cannot seriously tell me you buy the existence of that role.

[AlmasterGM]

2. This role probably does not exist. Thus, somebody must be lying. It's either singersinger or VasudeVa, since if they are both town, then MS would have to be the role that does not exist. Since singersinger is dead town, it must be VV.

When something THAT solid is sitting in front of me, I can't justify flying into guessworkcity and voting MS off some off-chance whimsical theory that singersinger would have secretly thrown out Fate's plan and gifted somebody else and thus VV might be town and thus MS is scum. It's just not practical.