1119: The Might of Mordor: Game Over

[gandalf5166]

Damnit FATE WE TALKED ABOUT THE NKING YOUR PARTNERS FOR CRED GAMBIT

.....

Gandalf, is the 'him' Edge?

Yeah. I'm pretty sure he's town, but when he makes jokes like hat, he makes me REALLLLLLY paranoid.

[SpyreX]

Woooooosh

If Edge makes it to lylo and gets voted kill them.

[MasterSpy]

hohum is now on my must-avoid list based on his play this game, particularly if he's town. I'll PM a link to this game to any mod who considers letting him replace in. Honestly, why the fuck did you bother to replace into this game just for the sake of screwing it over?

I've been spread very thin this week and forcing Magna to pick up the slack, but since Magna is V/LA this weekend, I'll hold up the fort. I wish he was here to weigh in on hohum's claim and slip, though.

First of all, as much as I'm glad hohum is coming under fire, and as much as I have a sinking feeling of dread that Magna will kill me for even suggesting this...no one hammer yet. I'm actually wondering if the conservative move is to leave him alive, as godawful as he is.

I don't think the slip alone is proof positive of his being scum (since multiple Mafia games have conditioned me to have a Pavlovian green = town, red = Mafia reaction to a flip; also, hands up if you went "goddamn it" for a split second after Plum's flip only to do a double-take). But we were both planning to start today with a vote right out of the gates for hohum. Magna in particular was close to convinced hohum was scum after that quickhammer. Because hohum's "yeah, it will be obvious in the morning" sounds in retrospect as though he

knew

Plum would flip scum. Since he and Plum were the only viable lynches, then even if Plum got an eleventh-hour reprieve, the votes would shift to him. Our theory was that he panicked and tried to buy last-minute town cred by jumping onto Plum's wagon. Read hohum in ISO. He doesn't so much as mention Plum (even though she was by far the most contentious issue of the game), and yet when SS puts her at L-1, he insta-hammered?

Never mind that it explained why Mariyta kept saying she had reasons to suspect Plum beyond sheeping Edge, but never made a case on her and later dropped her attack.

That said...if we leave hohum alive tonight, we'll find out for sure if he's scum or town by whether there are two kills or one. If there are two, then that means he's almost certainly town (maybe an SK, but the flavour suggests that there's only one scumteam?). Meanwhile, if there's one, that means he's almost certainly a lying scumbag trying to fish for a doctor (in which case, we'll lynch him a day later, but so what?).

So I'm not sure if it's better to lynch a very likely but not 100% confirmed scumbag today, or wait another night to have further evidence.

gandalf, obviously don't answer this if you think this will give something away. But can you at least say if you definitely know that there was another kill that was blocked last night? If you know without a doubt one was sent, that means hohum is almost certainly not Mafia.

Also, hohum, claim your character name. Right now.

Confirmed Scum:
AGM

I'm not even sure why I'm trying to reason with you as if you're a rational being, but humour me. Why is AlmasterGM "confirmed scum"? I missed just what caused your turnabout. You never once mentioned him yesterday.

(On a side note, I'd like to make a post tomorrow night explaining my dissenting view on AGM--at the very least, to get a reaction or defence from AGM. AGM and Plum (-_-) were really the only differences of opinion I've had with Magna this game. Although AGM's side of their interaction is looking increasingly genuine, hohum's random attack on him is the kind of thing I'd expect as distancing from a buddy.)

Quadz...I think it's time to give us the details of what happened last night. Cuz like, that would be totally tubular, dude.
Especially since I think you're frantic for a reason.

VV, I think it's best to listen to my fiance and explain what you mean now. He's not a force to be reckoned with when he knows what he's talking about. Guess who got the ring last night. Guess who probably knows what he's talking about.

Okay, I don't know if you're being all cutesy with him because he's your fiance, but I really don't like your interactions with quadz today. Sometimes I feel as though you're trying to appeal to your relationship outside the game to get him on your good side with all this "just listen to my fiance, he's so awesome!" talk. And I know that accusations of role-fishing are often thrown around too casually, but do you really have to keep going, "Hey, so what did you do last night? What power did the ring grant you? Come on, tell me! Tell me!" And you were pestering him to reveal before his first post of the day, before his "nervous energy," as well. quadz can decide for himself if he has something useful to reveal.

Mind you, quadz's first few posts today have been a bit weird, particularly how he was more focused on VV's claim than on hohum's vig and implosion. I thought from the context that the "might" was more "I might be the reason that the kill was blocked," not "I might have targeted Edge, but I'm not sure." I'd also say that if VV is lying, that makes hohum even

more

likely to be scum (since that means there was only one kill and VV is covering for him, but don't answer this. (EBWOPreview--yes, I really spent that much time writing this post: Okay, it seems like shenanigans are occurring, so I'll retract this comment.) I also didn't like how quick he was to follow Fate and change his mind on hohum, particularly in comparison to his white-knighting of Plum-scum yesterday. I mean, AGM was the one who first pointed out hohum's slip.

quadz, can you explain in more detail just what caused your turnabout on hohum? Just Fate repeating "two scumteams" five zillion times?

Waiting on Magna's return before I vote or imbue.

[gandalf5166]

Oh shit, I don't know why I didn't mention this yesterday: I have near-confirmation in my role that scum have a roleblocker.

@MS: I have no reason to believe that there was another kill. I do KNOW that VV did not block any kills last night.

[singersigner]

If you have no reason to believe there was another kill last night, then...oh wait...that might be misconstrued as rolefishing instead of trying to piece the game together.

[gandalf5166]

If you have no reason to believe there was another kill last night, then...oh wait...that might be misconstrued as rolefishing instead of trying to piece the game together.

Right, because asking who the doc protected would totally be worth exposing the doc.

[quadz08]

1)

Mind you, quadz's first few posts today have been a bit weird, particularly how he was more focused on VV's claim than on hohum's vig and implosion. I thought from the context that the "might" was more "I might be the reason that the kill was blocked," not "I might have targeted Edge, but I'm not sure." I'd also say that if VV is lying, that makes hohum even more likely to be scum (since that means there was only one kill and VV is covering for him, but don't answer this. (EBWOPreview--yes, I really spent that much time writing this post: Okay, it seems like shenanigans are occurring, so I'll retract this comment.)

2)

I also didn't like how quick he was to follow Fate and change his mind on hohum, particularly in comparison to his white-knighting of Plum-scum yesterday. I mean, AGM was the one who first pointed out hohum's slip.

3)

quadz, can you explain in more detail just what caused your turnabout on hohum? Just Fate repeating "two scumteams" five zillion times?

1) I'm more focused on VV's claim for a few reasons. 1st reason is related to last night. 2nd reason is because I already thought hohum should've been the lynch yesterday; I was also planning on coming in with a vote on hohum straightaway. I didn't find it necessary to point out that I thought he was scummy yet again. 3rd was that my reactions to hohum had already been stated by others by the time I checked the thread. I posted my unique thoughts about it (asking for a replacement; saying I wasn't sure about lynching a claimed vig) and I think my opinions on hohum got across pretty well.

2) As to the 'white-knighting' of Plum: I still think a good chunk of the case on her was bullshit, and we got lucky. I'm glad we got lucky, but we didn't lynch scum from skill or the best case by any means.

3) My statement of "I'll vote him after VV responds" is what I assume you're referring to here. Yes, Fate pointing out the two scumteams comment did it for me. That's a pretty damning slip.

[quadz08]

SS and Gandalf, I do not understand your exchange at all. Just fyi.

[quadz08]

My apologies for the triple post. Just felt the need to say this:

EVERYBODY SHOULD VOICE THEIR SUPPORT OF REPLACING HOHUM.

[AlmasterGM]

Vote: Force replace hohum

Vote: Hohum gets banned from mafia games

Vote: Never play with hohum again

Am I missing anything?

Not that any of this matters - hohum has practically claimed beat scum at this point on multiple levels (Fate's catch being the newest hawt example to add to the list).

[AlmasterGM]

P.S. For those who asked, SpyreX was the receipt of my messaging ability (he has confirmed this).

[singersigner]

Quadz...I think it's time to give us the details of what happened last night. Cuz like, that would be totally tubular, dude.
Especially since I think you're frantic for a reason.

VV, I think it's best to listen to my fiance and explain what you mean now. He's not a force to be reckoned with when he knows what he's talking about. Guess who got the ring last night. Guess who probably knows what he's talking about.

Okay, I don't know if you're being all cutesy with him because he's your fiance, but I really don't like your interactions with quadz today. Sometimes I feel as though you're trying to appeal to your relationship outside the game to get him on your good side with all this "just listen to my fiance, he's so awesome!" talk. And I know that accusations of role-fishing are often thrown around too casually, but do you really have to keep going, "Hey, so what did you do last night? What power did the ring grant you?

Come on, tell me! Tell me!

" And you were

pestering

him to reveal before his first post of the day, before his "nervous energy," as well. quadz can decide for himself if he has something useful to reveal.

So this quote was the second and last time I mentioned quadz explaining what happened (so to put it the way you did--in the bold--is a wild exaggeration), and I think it's 1. perfectly justifiable to ask the person who had the most power to be held accountable for it in the off-chance that we made a mistake and gave it to scum (just saying, it was public knowledge that he had the ring and could do something with it, so why would you push to keep it secret?), and 2. perfectly legitimate when the second time I asked him was because all of a sudden there was this weirdness with VV--aka, quadz acting suspicious of him, which I specifically pointed out.

The fact that you're trying to be the "good guy" by saying "oh no, don't bother him, it'll come out when it's ready, blahblahblah" is not good. There's no reason that a publicly imbued superpower should not be help accountable for. You're either protecting your scum buddy quadz (no, you're not, he's town, get over it), or you're scum playing victim like duh rolefishing is scummy even though this is a perfectly legitimate reason to need to understand what's actually going on.

Oh yeah. I forgot. You're scum who knows quadz is town for sure and don't need to keep him accountable for what happened last night. Hohum's probably scum with Plum if there's a second team, and there was probably a second kill that got blocked and now VV's trying to cover it up and act all town (which quadz has clearly picked up on...seriously...stop being so obvious). So he's prob scum with MS.

Seriously, the fact that VV even thinks he protected someone last night should give you a clue that he has some sort of in-sight as far as last night's kill(s) went. And now he has to "check with Andrius" to see if he's still bullet-proof...that's not something you bother projecting in thread until you know for sure. The only advantage it has it to make people think you're town. What happens if you "didn't actually protect anyone" (that's in quotes because as scum, he can't do that). You're back where you started at nothing, and we're left in a WIFOM trap of, is he telling the truth.

SERIOUSLY.

Oh the options!

VOTE: VasudeVa

Get back here and figure your shit out.

[singersigner]

SS and Gandalf, I do not understand your exchange at all. Just fyi.

I was making fun of MasterSpy's paranoia that I was rolefishing. I don't know if Gandalf was being sarcastic or not, but either way, he's town, too (yes I changed my mind, go you). So...ya.

And, hellooo...imbuing people is practically a form of rolefishing in itself. Derp.

[gandalf5166]

SS, you do realize that superpowers are improved versions of normal powers, so to claim what quadz did last night would be basically claiming? And why do YOU need confirmation of what happened last night? You trusted quadz enough to give him superpowers. At that point, what he did with him should be irrelevant.

And I was being sarcastic, but I thought you were talking about hohum's rolefish.

[singersigner]

Yes, I know that. But to say that it wasn't important to know is just ignorant. Yes, I'm curious, and yes, I think it's important to know, but yes, I will back off my high horse if he legitimately doesn't think it's important for us to know, because yes, you're right, I wanted to imbue him for a reason.

But for the record, I don't think what anyone does with the ring should be irrelevant. It's public knowledge, and publicly imbued (like I said). It should be more or less discussed at the very least, don't you think?

And in all honesty, the first time I mentioned anything, it was more or less to find out if he got anything useful out of it. The second time, yes, definitely wanting to figure out what this deal with VV was.

[MasterSpy]

Oh shit, I don't know why I didn't mention this yesterday: I have near-confirmation in my role that scum have a roleblocker.

*sighs*

So much for my "confirm hohum as town/scum by the number of kills plan," then.

@MS: I have no reason to believe that there was another kill. I do KNOW that VV did not block any kills last night.

...Okay.

Never mind. I take back everything I said in my wall post above.

If you're telling the truth, that pretty much guarantees that hohum is scum trying to pass off his kill. (Which means VV just outed himself for nothing. <_<)

As a side note, why do people keep speculating that 1) a kill was blocked last night, and 2) hohum is scum? Obviously, it's one or the other.

@quadz: Okay, fair enough re: your stances on hohum and VV. FWIW, I still lean town on you. And for some reason, I got the impression that Fate quoting the slip (even though AGM had initially spotted it) gave you an epiphany from the tone of your post. Looking back, you never outright CONTRADICTED that read. Question: did you notice the slip immediately, or was Fate the one who brought it to your attention?

Also, I'd written much of that before catching onto your wink-wink, nudge-nudge, so that's why I couldn't explain the weird undercurrent to your questions to VV. My post was a bit schizoid in tone as a result.

And it's 4 AM, and I'm so sleep-deprived that I don't think I've logically processed the two-scumteams comment. So I'm reading everyone going, "Ha ha, hohum was caught in a damning slip!", but it's not quite sinking into my brain.

[MasterSpy]

Re: singersigner's most recent posts...wow.

Wow

.

First of all, I think this quote from gandalf summarizes my thoughts on imbuing claims:

SS, you do realize that superpowers are improved versions of normal powers, so to claim what quadz did last night would be basically claiming? And why do YOU need confirmation of what happened last night? You trusted quadz enough to give him superpowers. At that point, what he did with him should be irrelevant.

It's the equivalent to asking your top town read to arbitrarily claim his night action. I don't believe the imbuee owes us anything; we can evaluate whether he used his power properly in due time, just like with a normal role.

(Also, although I thought your question was antitown, it was more the buddy-buddy "quadz is awesome, and he totally has extra information now, right? Right? Why don't you tell your fiancee what it is?" that stuck in my craw.)

I'll concede to SS that it makes sense to wonder about quadz's ability after he asked VV about his read, although I still think she should have kept her mouth shut.

The fact that you're trying to be the "good guy" by saying "oh no, don't bother him, it'll come out when it's ready, blahblahblah" is not good. There's no reason that a publicly imbued superpower should not be help accountable for. You're either protecting your scum buddy quadz (no, you're not, he's town, get over it), or you're scum playing victim like duh rolefishing is scummy even though this is a perfectly legitimate reason to need to understand what's actually going on.

Wait a minute.

Wait. A. Minute.

singersigner, are you saying that you asked because you wanted to make sure he didn't misuse his ring?

Even though these were your thoughts on quadz FROM HIS FIRST POST OF THE GAME:

And I find it very hypocritical that you jump down my throat for trusting quadz' reads so early, and yet there's all this sheeping bit with Fate going on, and Plum dictating that Edge is town in the beginning, etc. At least quadz did something I deemed to be a ridiculous town play for him, and has since then been very proactive and townie. And what the hell is wrong with being able to read my fiance like a book? You'd think you'd take that as an advantage, hmm?

When I called you on how silly it was for you to call his opening post a "ridiculous town play," you dismissed my case with "yeah, he's clear obvtown when I see him play." I can give more examples of how you don't once entertain quadz being guilty for a moment, just chide him on being wrong or not agreeing with your suspect.

I think this excuse rings false. You'd have been better off playing the "I was just curious about the set-up and overeager to know if he had a cop guilty" card. But you've spent so much time playing up how pure your trust in quadz is and how well you can read him from one half-hearted post that I don't believe you were really concerned for a moment with how he'd use the ring.

But you know what I dislike most? That when I tell you not to ask power roles to claim, instead of just admitting you should have been more careful, you try to turn it around on me. "How dare you accuse me of rolefishing when I'm being a concerned townie! Since you clearly don't care about the town's welfare like I do, you must be protecting your scumpartner quadz...oh, shit, I just said quadz was super-town...that doesn't work. I mean, um...you CLEARLY know that quadz is town already, because otherwise you'd find it of the gravest importance to know what power quadz gained from his ring last night." This is just such a ridiculous and unfair smear job that it makes my blood boil.

That's it. After hohum, you're next.

Oh yeah. I forgot. You're scum who knows quadz is town for sure and don't need to keep him accountable for what happened last night. Hohum's probably scum with Plum if there's a second team, and there was probably a second kill that got blocked and now VV's trying to cover it up and act all town (which quadz has clearly picked up on...seriously...stop being so obvious). So he's prob scum with MS.

Oh, not you as well with the second scum teams. Did you miss the part where Andrius explicitly says the scum are the Heroes of Light?

This paragraph might as well be screaming, "hohum is my scumbuddy!" What I love is that you call hohum scum, but spin a paranoid conspiracy theory involving multiple scumteams to try to justify why VV would still lie about his role, so you can vote him instead.

Your suspicions sound completely contrived. I don't believe that

you

believe there's a MS-VV vs. hohum-Plum scumteam.

Also, please explain what changed your mind between this:

Hohum...the fact that you didn't know Katy was town is pretty damming, I hope you realize that.

and this:

Also, I do have an example where I replaced into a theme game and misjudged the flip simply because of the color. I was quickly mislynched as town.

While I do think it's ridiculous, unfortunately I can relate.

[Sevei]

My vote will be on Hohum after we've spent more time discussing things. I'm not ready to give MasterSpy a reprieve from the gallows even though SS is looking pretty scummy herself right now, and Singer makes more sense as a partner to Hohum than MS does.

It's 5:30 a.m. for me now and I am about to crash, so I will finish this later.

[gandalf5166]

It seems I was unclear. There may or may not have been a kill on Edge. VV did not block it.

[gandalf5166]

Getting into any more detail than that would be as good as claiming. The only thing I am confirming is that VV did NOT lose his bulletproof last night. Whether there was a kill on Edge is unknown.

[VasudeVa]

Also, VV. I want details on your night action, NOW. This is of crucial importance.

It's as simple as simple can get. I'm a bodyguard(ie. get shot instead of your target) and I tried to protect Edge last night. Although I

didn't

lose my BP therefore I failed to protect last night. Andy just confirmed that I do find out if I lose it. I've seen games where limited shot BPs don't find out if they have been shot and I read hohum's claim as a green light to claim. I was planning on claiming today anyway, I wanna get imbued and get shot.

Can you clarify what your role means/is (the bulletproof part, not the bodyguard)?

One shot Bulletproof = immune to the first night kill. As a Bodyguard, I can eat an NK for someone/myself. But after the first, I die like a bodyguard would.

----

Imbue: Vas

Well, since I'm claiming anyway. I'm the Undying, one of the Nazgul.
SuperPower: Protect three people tonight from all kill attempts.
NormalPower: Protect one person from one kill attempt.

My rolePM implies multiple kills...which could mean vig/sk/multiple scumteams. Multiple scumteams don't even make sense from Flavor unless Andy went with an Elves scumteam vs. Humans scumteam which is so unflavorlike.

I'll beback with more thoughts.

--prev.edit
gandalf is correct.

[Fate]

Probably just a SK then.

Aka hohum, aka dead, aka let's get on with it

[gandalf5166]

No, I just think he's stupid scum.

[hohum]

sorry but the mod won't be able to force replace me.

[gandalf5166]

sorry but the mod won't be able to force replace me.

and..... how does that work in your feeble little mind?