Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[Korlash]

Vote: Korlash

because it kills two birds with one post.

Hesitant to make any real comments until nocase posts.

[Korlash]

nocase has claimed that he has a post-restriction. Of course, in a Normal game, I'm immediately suspicious, but I want him to explain his restriction as much as he can. More information and views are better, and the most vital view here is that of the person who claimed such an unbelievable thing.

I may have been in my coma-nap for a while so the term "normal" game doesn't seem to mean to me what it should, but why would you be suspicious of... anything, when KK posted like an [exagerated] number of possible, likely, and/or simply for aesthetic design roles on page one. Would you be any more suspicious if he had claimed to be a paranoid gun owner? Or an unlynchable? Or a professional dog walker? Seriously, what the hell is that? That's not a profession... go get a job hippie...

[Korlash]

It's fun to watch scum fail.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Korlash

I can't think of a funny or an as close to funny as I can get response to this, but I do agree with the vote. So well done there...

Still, I'd much rather be talking to Chevre about it, but hey I'll take whatever I can get...

[Korlash]

Yeah I've been in a slight cat-nap for the past 22 months but now that i'm up I feel like being called an idiot by a bunch of strangers online again! Ahhh... good times right?

I actually wanted to start off slow and join a small game but I keep getting rejected, and luckily just happened to fall into this one. Nothing personal, but hey you still get to enjoy my company here. Although If I remember correctly you always had some good theme games... Count me in for the next one eh?

As for me, I started writing a book about the inevitable failures of over-procrastination and the dangers of not replacing batteries in alarm clocks... it is not going well....

[Korlash]

What would the response have been? And talking to Chevre about what? You made this craptacular post that didn't say anything but was disguised as content.

It wasn't disguised as content, it's a simple question directed at Chevre surrounded by the special korlash sauce. And if you want to get anal about stuff like that your vote didn't have a shred of "content" backing it up either. Also the response would have been one of those killer laugh out loud and have all of your workplace look at you funny jokes, but sadly I've never been able to do one of those...

[Korlash]

Korlash, I was suspicious of the person claiming to have an "ability" that made no appearance on the list the Moderator gave to us. Yes, I would be suspicious even if he had claimed Paranoid Gun Owner or Unlynchable, but I'm more suspicious because he claimed an ability that was not listed.

And that would make sense to me. Yet you made it seem as though you were suspicious simply because it was a normal game. In your "summary" post you failed to mention the list in any way and simply used the fact that this was a normal game to explain your suspicions.

[Korlash]

Korlash: Nice to see you again. I really mean that I knew you existed and then disappeared, so hi.

Hi! *waves* If I had know you cared that much I might not have disappeared...

- Korlash's Post 43 is really awkward in the way he attempts to soften his dismissal of the credibility of the list of possible roles in the OP with that super forced joke about professional dog walkers. Then he followed it up with a rambling post about I-don't-even-know-what, and then another half-serious half-forced humour post in defence of his initial attempt. Scummy.

I never tried to dismiss the credibility of the list of possible roles, I tried to dismiss the credibility of Chevre's summary post in which she failed to acknowledge the list of possible roles in the OP. As her entire summary hinged simply on the fact the claim in question wasn't belevable in a normal game (As in not this particular game, as in not in a game with a list), i attempted to illistrate how listed roles would be more or less believable for lack of the OP list. Also I'm never half serious, I'm never even a quarter serious... It's a flaw that has impeded both potential job opprotunities and chances at procreation my entire life. :Sadface:

[Korlash]

Honestly how many games have you played at MS? How many games have you seen a player do something moronic, crazy or even remotely scummy to start the game and actually be scum?

What? You're not actually saying doing something outside of the "norm" at the start of the game makes you town are you? And what prevents scum from acting crazy or moronic?

However, I do know that anything that seems out-of-the-ordinary or not seeming to benefit the town is scummy. I've tried to think of how nocase's lie could be helpful, but I cannot. If you can recommend such a way that it could assist the town, then please do share. With your previous statement, you are bordering along the lines of "The scumtells at the start of games are measurably less valuable than those later on in the game." I surely hope that is not what you're intending, nor do I think you are.

You seem to be under the impression mafia games can simply start out of thin air, and while that's arguable eventually someone has to do something to get conversation started. Over the course of time this something has turned into the RVS. You also seem to be stuck on the fact that nocase's "claim" was a lie and not merely a joke. What about DGB's claim? Do you consider that a lie or a joke? And if a joke, what is the difference? Arguably DGB's claim would be worse as it happened later in the game and was actually asked for, yet somehow nocase's is elevated to a lie and hers is ignored.

I don't ever recall a game where scum put their neck out on the line at the very first page and face the consequences of getting voted out. Mind you that is the games I have played. Some are with people like Jack, DGB and a few people I can't remember without searching my games.

You actually allude to games you've played with DGB as evidence that scum wouldn't act abnormal at the start of the game? You honestly think DGB's role reflects how she acts for the first 5 or so pages? And what defines putting their neck on the line? I can't think of any action short of claiming to be mafia you can do page one that would actually give you fear of being lynched right then and there. Hell half the game is off doing their own stuff for the first two pages you could probably get away with claiming to be scum.

Unvote:, Vote: farside22

I would say almost everyone actively posting has done something moronic or crazy, and while the possibility exists that only the town are actually playing the game at the moment, I find it more likely that your theory here is wrong.

[Korlash]

quote="Farside"]Please link me to a game that scum started off page one doing something mornic, crazy or off the cuff then because as I stated I have never seen scum do it.
Does it mean auto-town and clear. No someone one day who is mafia could be ballsy enough but I have seen scum buckle under pressure more often then not.[/quote]

ha ha ha ha... the "Prove me wrong or else I'm right" argument. As you're the one that made the false statement you should be the one to link me every single game that ever started with a person or persons acting crazy or moronic and ended up being town. As that is both a waste of time and stupid, I'll pretend I wasn't an eight serious about it.

so Korlash your voting for me based on an opinion I have developed playing mafia here at MS? Is that really the full case?
As for you DGB question I have never seen her come out of the games and do something mornic as scum.

I'm voting you for using an obviously untrue statement to, for lack of a better phrase, poo-poo the person you are voting's reason as to why she did what she did. If it's your opinion, fine. You're welcome to it however wrong it may be. But you can't use it to ignore, or otherwise dismiss another person's logic or reasoning. In addition, you are also granting a completely free pass to anyone who has done anything even remotely anti-town this game so far... well up unto your magical post number in which the "start" of the game ends and the craziness starts to count.

Korlash, If nocase intended for his claim to be a joke, it does not prevent it from being a lie. DrippingGoofBall's claim isn't serious because as you said, it was asked for and we therefore knew that it wasn't likely to be true. nocase, on the other hand, came straight out the gate with an obtuse claim that got reactions out of many players. I'm slowly warming up to it being "the start of the game" though.

I do agree that treating all fakeclaims, even jokes obvious or otherwise, as full on lies is a good way to play. However, each of us also has to at some point allow our own ironclad beliefs bend in order to facilitate the playstyle of others. If you can recognize something as a joke, even if it takes until after the fact, you shouldn't continue to hold to the strict standard that it's a full on lie. Otherwise you start to get blinded about the issue. You have to be able to admit as well that someone claiming a role post one of a game, and someone claiming the same role on page 15 for instance, are a huge difference in terms of what is and what isn't an acceptable "lie." In short, sadly even something as pure as the definition of a lie and what it means to the town has tto have exceptions in any game with people, especially when we're all as crazy as we all are.

And I'm sure i didn't make a lot of new friends with that one. Can't wait to see what people try to turn that into...

[Korlash]

Really? I have been out of mafia for 6 months and prior to that I was out for a few months and you want me to do a search on this when you seem to have it that scum acted moronic page one but haven't stated when you saw when scum did it?
I can at least say look at my last game I played which was the invitational game with Jack acting crazy.
You want more then that then you give something back that shows I'm lying which you claim I"m lying with nothing to back it up.

Farside I've been out for my randomly generated number of 22 months plus I'm an idiot and yet you asked me to do legwork so don't be surprised if I throw it back onto you. Unfortunately it will take more then one game to back up your statement. Where-as it would only take one game for me to discredit it. That alone should give you pause for thought as statistically I could find one game a heck of a lot faster and easier then you could find, lets pick an arbitrary number, 7...

Also I never claimed you were lying, simply wrong. I did insinuate you were using your falseness in a malicious way, but i've never claimed you were actually lying about anything.

Farside, I'm sure korlash didn't mean anything he said personally. *pats back*

I don't even remember getting insulting... I guess it's a hot button issue... sad that only makes me want to push it more...

[Korlash]

Farside I've been out for my randomly generated number of 22 months plus I'm an idiot and yet you asked me to do legwork so don't be surprised if I throw it back onto you. Unfortunately it will take more then one game to back up your statement. Where-as it would only take one game for me to discredit it. That alone should give you pause for thought as statistically I could find one game a heck of a lot faster and easier then you could find, lets pick an arbitrary number, 7...

yeah I'm going to have to take most of this back. Not as easy as it sounded. Granted the terms are vague and the results are situational... heck even my ace in the hole, myself, is proving difficult. I'm sure someone more interested or more active as of late would be able to provide a game or two, but I have seen enough to at least accept you are able to back up your opinion. That being said I still think you are wrong. Being scum probably will affect certain people and how they act in the beginning of games, but the biggest factor isn't role, it's who the player is and how he/she plays. So the biggest thing would be to find a game where nocase was scum and see if he acted differently. (I half-looked and couldn't find one...)

Still i accept you at least have reason to believe things the way you do and admit I even started to see it your way while searching games. So lets try it another way...

I don't ever recall a game where scum put their neck out on the line at the very first page and face the consequences of getting voted out. Mind you that is the games I have played. Some are with people like Jack, DGB and a few people I can't remember without searching my games.
The point of starting out the gates and do something what you call out-of-the-ordinary is for reaction persons. To see who responds and how they respond, if someone responds or doesn't. Who votes on it and why.
It also gets people talking and out of the RVS stage, which sometimes I find quite useless.

If "starting out the gates and do something what you call out-of-the-ordinary" is simply to see how people react and go from there then why would scum have any real fear of doing it? I mean players wouldn't regularly do something that has a huge chance of getting them lynched, so if it is commonplace (you were able to link 4 games so I'm hoping we can accept it's at least a common thing for most games) then it can't result in said person being lynched a *huge* majority of the time. Long story short, if town does it so much, why would mafia be afraid to do it? More to the point, if the entire reason to do it is to get other people to react and move the discussion onto their reactions, then the person who does the initial thing wouldn't be worried about what happens to them as the entire point is to move discussion onto someone else.

And returning to the actual game, and the actual topic I wanted to talk about in the first place, your post 180. Can you honestly say that after all this discussion with me that your response to Chevre makes any sense? Nocase does something you suggest is merely to get people to respond, and when someone responds, you question why they are doing it?

[Korlash]

I think the only time I saw a quick lynch was with Vengeful mafia. Yes that is a completely different case.
And your right I don't see people lynched at the start of the day for doing crazy things, but I only recall one person who handled pressure and was scum when being voted for. Usually I see scum flustered.
Maybe it's being gone for 6 months and thinking that crazy actions were normal in every game (which now upon looking at my past games there are not as common as I believed) I was harsh on Chevre for her belief. I think I just got it in my head that people on MS were nuts in most every game I was in. But I realize it wasn't as common so I was wrong to think Chevre was faking her belief however I will point out if she was suspicious and it's the start of the game why didn't she vote for Norse in the first place then?

I'm not going to try to defend Chevre or claim to know why she did or didn't do anything. But to me "She didn't vote that guy" doesn't sound all that weird, beginning of the game or not.

farside22 - 1 - Korlash >>> Darling, farside isn't reacting to your vote like I'd expect her to if she were scum. You might have a point with this vote, but farside isn't today's lynch.

You may have a point. The conversation went off on a side tangent and made me more or less forget what my original point was...

Unvote:

[Korlash]

*dramatic noise*
and que loud and in sync crowd gasp... 3...2..1...

[Korlash]

Because KK has posted since

... Where? I see the edit but I don't actually see a post...

[Korlash]

... I also don't see a box of moderately priced cookies and an interesting companion to hang out with while eating them...

*looks around*

[Korlash]

My powers are amazing... i must only use them for good... >.> or... instead of that... auction them off to the highest bidder... hmmm

[Korlash]

yeah.... I love big games... Too bad my brain lacks the ability to process such pure and utter genius yet, someday though.. .someday...

Not really feeling Chevre at the moment... *rethinks phrasing* But I could get behind antihero and go all the way... wait.... damnit...

[Korlash]

Man I wish I had managed this reread before now... Now it's going to seem like I'm against the Gorrad wagon... *sigh* Whatever, I'm still right however the rest of you choose to take it... so onward I trudge!

Two viewings of RED down and i finally finish the read-up! I mean, come on, Brian Cox and Karl Urban in the same movie? Perfection... But I dye grass... purple...

The first person to stand out to me was Spy, so i guess the read up focused on him more then anyone else. But I like the content I was able to amass in my notes on him so I'll stay where i am before attempting a second read-up. So lets get somethings down on paper.

1* I seem to be the only one to recognize his case on gorrad was crap, I actually find myself astonished by how quickly I assumed everyone saying it was good just didn't read it instead of assuming I was wrong. Really people? Come on... he didn't even have a "good" point against Gorrad until his post 459... and he started it in post 63... sad...

2* He has attempted to show gorrad as scum** by linking him to other people. (Often without saying anything real about the other people and just saying 'possible scum pair'.) I'm all for making guesses at a person's alignment and saying if scum he may be buddied to so and so, but until one of them actually flips it's all worthless crap. And you can't say "this is a reason to flip one of them" unless you go into more detail about the person you're linking to.***

3* He has on multiple occasions seemed to be setting things up in advance. The linking of Gorrad to others for instance, the response to who else he thinks is scum (besides Gorrad), his comments on a gorrad flip meaning death for people on the chevre wagon.**** The worst part was in his post 428 when he said he had others that relied on flips and he didn't want to talk about them now. I look at that as saying "Hey if someone, I won't say who, flips something, I won't say what, then I know what we should do! but I won't say it now in case I look like I'm setting stuff up, instead I'll wait and look like I'm making it up after the fact! but of course I said it here so you have to believe me!"*****

4* His skirting of the question who besides gorrad is scummy, saying Xalxe is his number two, yet I can't recall him ever saying anything about Xalxe. (If he did it didn't make my notes.) I don't see how CKD isn't his number two... I'm fairly sure He's mentioned the link with Gorrad more times then he's mentioned Xalxe...

** - Or at least make his case look better/stronger for it.
*** - Not actually saying you ever said this, but mentioning it as a preemptive so you can't use it as a reason for why you did it.
**** - I think that's what he meant. i never fully understood his post 463.
***** - Huge exaggeration on my part. But it's honestly the first reaction I had to his comment.

The only point in Spy's favor is that he doesn't want to go after CKD before Gorrad, but it only helps show how little he has talked about CKD on his own. for someone who has said multiple times "Gorrad-CKD scum pair yuk yuk yuk" I would think he would care enough to say something about CKD...

I'm going to

vote: spyrex

like I said I do feel i was slightly bias on my reread paying more attention to the first person to strike me as 'scummy', but the end result is too good to ignore. I'm all for the 'whatever' wagons, like Chev's and the soon-to-be Gorrad one, but a lot of you have mentioned Spy's stuff as being good, or well explained, or making sense... and it is plain and clear bullshit.

For those who care the next biggest person I compiled notes on was Dutch... I can't give a lot of newb credit to anyone willing to join a big game... If he felt like he needed it he should have stayed in newbie ville, and he is clearly a scummy player. (Regardless if you think he is Obv. town or not, you have to admit he has made far too many scummy comments and posts to continuously ignore.)

i only had one or two things to say on everyone else. RC, Iam, inhim, Xalxe, and Anti-hero are the only ones not to stand out at all. (honestly I thought I was going to end up tunneling on anti-hero...) And I need to iso runner again because i know there is more there. But yeah, there ya go. Enjoy, and of course vote spy... you know you want to!

[Korlash]

That question has had to have been asked like 6 times this game against 6 different people? What makes Dutch so special?

[Korlash]

From the very beginning the 'case' was there. I -really- didn't think it was something that needed to be laid out point by point. And the early posts before I had to get all WORDS pretty clearly show what I was talking about.

... The case was never there, the case still isn't there, and even when you posted your "How many words is it johnny? It's... It's over 9000! What! 9000?" post, it still wasn't there. the only thing that was there was gorrad not posting content. (And if you want a more personal tie in, trying to look like posting content and not actually posting content. which, correct me if I'm wrong I don't actually remember you using) Oh right, not posting content during the first three pages of the game... you know, the time we all have fun and post worthless crap. Wow you mean Gorrad is scum for that? Then that makes me and dgb and nocase and antihero and CKD and inhim and... *goes on for a while* and dgb again, scum as well! So anyone who had any fun in the RVS phase is scum? The only person that would make town is you... *gasp* I bet I know which side is going to lose! *sarcastic gasp* Heck you didn't even get a second point until page 8 with the "he keeps claiming scum" thing, which oddly enough I could show applies to me 'almost' as strongly as gorrad...

And, yes, I AM looking ahead not to make Gorrad scum 'with other people' but to show my thought process when gorrad flips scum. Because spearheading a lynch like this if I am right is a death warrant. Which is fine.

Really? "Knowing" gorrad is scum on page three and then focusing 'almost' entirely for the rest of the game, clearly ignoring people at time due to your blinding tunnelvision, culminating in a case full of crap would "mean your death" when he flips? Really? Being able to tell someone is scum on page two and twist everything he does from that point on into your definition of scum endangers your life? really? No way man... no way...

Sorry for the sarcasm... But it's true. sadly I don't think you're scum for it, I just think you're being stupid. Stop crossing your fingers hoping you "called scum on page 3" and see your case for the pile of CKD excrement it is.

And, some of the 'others' I am talking about should be clear to at least a few people (and crystal clear with the 'flips' I'm talking about) but, again, I am not trying to catch ALL the chickens right now just Gorrad related ones.

A few people? Like you're scum partners? ha ha, Sorry I couldn't resist... So a big point on Gorrad is he doesn't post anything worthwhile, and you're intentionally not posting stuff worthwhile*. (It's not actually worthwhile, but you seem to think it is...) How exactly is it different when you do it?

And, yes, I have spent a lot of energy on this and, frankly, the fact it took a bad wagon all the way to claim for anyone BUT GORRAD HIMSELF to pay attention to it sure doesn't spark that lovin' feelin of doing it again.

... so you're case on gorrad was second to that of a bad wagon... Simple things are true, so your case on Gorrad must there for be worse then bad...

And, CKD is cart before the horse to a degree. Lynchable on his own? Sure (60/40). A much, much better lynch after a Gorrad scum flip? Hot damn yes (80/20).

And yet not lynchable on his own enough to merit a mention when asked... What's your percentage on Xalxe? Also CKD is clearly more a donkey then a horse... and now that excrement comment doesn't sound so insulting does it? ha ha, I had a plan for that all along...

[Korlash]

yeah I don't like that topic. I could probably run through four hypothetical scenarios for the replacment thing that all mean something different and are all as provable and believable as the rest. It's a waste of time to talk too much on it or actually attempt to make it mean anything.

Guess that means it's a waste of time to make an entire post devoted to it... oh quick, quick... uhhhh... So how about that replacement? ahh damnit! *facedesk*

[Korlash]

Wait wait wait hold up wait stop extra extra wait hold on...

Kat if you are replacing out why do you keep posting? I'm even more confused then when i try to understand the cartoons in the New Yorker.

[Cuts to a scene of me sitting on the couch reading the news paper with a confused look on my face]

It's funnier if you actually see it because I'm holding it upside down and it isn't even the New Yorker... Yeah... not really a text based image... hmmm...

[Korlash]

Personally, I think i'm being targeted for not paying much attention to this game.

Paid enough attention to be on both wagons.... Ironically the most you've said on anyone wasn't even one of them... Finally a wagon that doesn't look ridiculously stupid.

Still like my vote better though! "lets see what comes out of the wash" ha ha ha...

On to more important things! Pokerface has arrived! Finally this game has some class! Or, alternate ending, finally this game has someone more awesome than me! Or, alternate ending, Hey. What's up? you can see why that last one was cut... makes for a good DVD bonus feature though... hmm... Forgot where I was... Oh my god, Pokerface is here!

[Korlash]

Damnit weatherman why is it snowing here? You could have warned me... 4 seconds into the game and I already hate you... Ok hate is a strong word... Mildly dislike... no that doesn't sound like me... that's rude. Is that the kind of man I am now? Am I rude? Rude and not ginger... no I think I'm moot on the subject of you. Neutral, of having no opinion, in a state of unattractiveness without a vector. Then again I have been paying a lot of attention to you in this post, maybe I sorta like you, like one of those times where you see someone and instantly like them. But I haven't seen you so I must really like you because I like you without any evidence. Not even a picture, not even a call, you never write! I HATE YOU... *cries*

Man If I had worked in a part about steam boats earlier I would be set up for a Mitch Hedberg reference here... oh well they can't all be gold.

Can we skip the part where everyone gives up on werewolf as seems to be this games M.O. and just jump onto Spy now? I'm getting borred waiting for Poker to catch up. come on man, it's been at least two hours you should have solved the case already... I'll give you a hint, it wasn't someone in the lounge with the Dan Brown novel.

Ironically, not my most worthless post ever...*

*Not actually verified by any sources.

[Korlash]

Modus operandi... Spanish for that thing you did that one time and continued to do again and again... over and over... Often times used by detectives or other forms of livestock to sound smart or appear to be not useless.... I forgot where I was going with this but yeah, the more you know! *insert jingle here*

[Korlash]

I, for one, am not selling this wagon short.

Hey we can all dream I guess, but the track record so far gives it pretty bad odds. best way to actually make sure the wagon sticks is to skip it, move on, eventually skip that one, move on, eventually skip that one then come back to werewolf. By then people will be all like "well deadline will be here soon so I guess we can keep this one..." that has a lot higher odds of actually playing out. So I still think we should use the two remaining 'info wagons' and I use the fake term loosely, on people who don't have a huge chance of being lynched but actually need some things cleared up or focused on...

Then again we could all prove me wrong and cause the world to collapse upon itself... cause that sounds like a productive afternoon...

[Korlash]

Well it all started in 1980 when soviet Russia invaded the game sparking world war three. A few of us from high school banded together somewhere around page thirteen. We started using guerrilla warfare to resit their occupation while calling ourselves the wolverines after someone's avatar...

Or is that the summary to Red Dawn...

[Korlash]

When werewolf posts, which I admit is not as frequently as some, it has never been a post that I have taken issues with. Quite frankly, I don't understand how his wagon started, and it seems like scum has just taken it for a ride.

funny, that's exactly why i thought it got started... And I think the fact that less then 10% of his actual posts have something in them to take issues with would have something to do with it too....

[Korlash]

here I thought nocase was one of the few people not pushing your lynch... Man one of us must really be missing something here...

[Korlash]

Unless you legitimately believe that in which case you would do the opposite so you could argue how it's inconceivable you're scum with him when he flips.

And if you and WW were scum together, why would you have to shift any blame onto anyone tomorrow?

[Korlash]

please dear lord I don't ask for much but I really, really wish when people tried to make sense that they hit preview, reread what they say and double check that their meaning is clear so my head doesn't hurt with their faulty and sad logic.

Awww... but that would be the end of the lovable tramp Korlash... And without me everything else would suck...

[Korlash]

Yeah CKD, be an angel and vote Spy! =D

psst, DGB... you misspelled his name again... gotta watch yourself...

[Korlash]

DGB: I have had the misfortune of playing against DGB alot. The majority of the games I have been in with her, one of us has been scum and the other has been town. Us both being town happens rarely and we have never been scum together. She nearly destroyed me in loser mafia and I wish i had voted differently in the invitational. He play here does not feel like the scum play I would normally expect from her. She seems to be going after who she thinks is scum as apposed to easiest to lynch

So... are you admitting to being scum then? Honestly, that's how I read this...

SpyreX hunting of gorrad and sera look good

Ahh I see. you meant to say, look crap... I see where we got confused there. Ok back on track...

Still we can hang Spy later,

Unvote:

Vote: werewolf

It's the only way to go at this point. he jumps onto each of the popular votes without adding a thing to either of them. His vote on Sera came with observation and reasoning, yet his plugs onto the Chev and Gorrad wagon came with crap and squat. he has gotten more active since being attacked, yet the best contribution he can give to the game is constantly being wrong about stuff. Intentional or not it's anti-town either way.

I'll admit I'm sure I'm missing some of the better points against Gorrad, it can't possible all be the crap Spy's been rolling in all game. But from what I have seen, he's nothing compared to WW. Die scum die, etc... You're pal Korlash. Dictated but not read.

- Korlash is still contributing precisely nothing other than rambling joke posts with like ten words of import.

Damn, ten? My bad... I'll start cutting back immediately.

[Korlash]

no. Will a meaningless arbitrary number on something make up for an unclear stance on it all game? no? Then what's the point? If anyone is going to put a wagon at "1" on your scale, they already made it clear. if anyone is going to put it at "5" they already made that clear. I don't get what you think you will accomplish here.

[Korlash]

However, I'd MUCH rather if there's a pigs chance in hell of it happening in the next 10 pages see Gorrad lynched. I guarantee you there's more sweet delicious data there either way and on a scum flip its freaking candyland.

you're one off those "50 no's and a yes is still a yes" type of guys aren't you?

[Korlash]

Korl, there are players who are being opaque, and I want to know that if people aren't following my wagon (and other people want to know their support for their wagon) that everyone is consciously dismissing the wagon or admitting their ambivalence, rather than just ignoring the fact that an active effort to lynch the person is occurring. I can't tell which they're doing without forcing them to say "Okay, what's your stance on the wagon? Do you just not care, or are you actively recognizing the arguments made for it and are dismissing the prospect of their lynch in an informed manner?"

Uh huh... so theoretically, you're saying if I say a random number then I am no longer 'Ignoring the fact an active effort to lynch is occurring'? And why do you thinking numbered lists is better then trying to force them to explain their stance? Do you speak in binary or do you just not like actual discussion?

on the other hand, the lack of effort has been global.

That damn Pakistan, not pulling it's weight! *shakes fist* **

**- Pakistan was randomly pulled form a hat holding a few dozen names of countries I thought sounded funny. I have nothing against Pakistan or it's people, who I'm sure are very nice and don't smell funny... Not like the people from Whales... Talk about not pulling your weight and smelling funny...

[Korlash]

Excuse me, but people were giving reasons on the lists. In a game where the dominant complaint is "FFS, why is nobody on my bandwagon?", it helps to have people just briefly give a reason why. If something sticks out now or in retrospect, then yeah, I'll probe. It makes perfect sense.

really? lets take a look. You gave 'reasons' for two out of four, DGB gave 'reasons' for 0 out of 4, Bob gave 'reasons' for 2(3 arguably) out of 4, farside 0 out of 4, Iam -3 out of 4,

wow in the first 5 people to do your stupid little test you averaged a whole 10% of numbers provided with reasons. *claps* You are very excused sir, very excused.

Meanwhile, we have an actual, VALUABLE scumbag as the alternate wagon.

Spy? totally agree with you there.

You're oversimplifying my argument.

Still better then what I would have boiled it down to. I'd have called you an out right liar. Whether you agree with WW's lynch or not, adding nothing, and I emphasis nothing, to the game while still participating in the 'popular vote' everytime is "directly scum-motivated". Add to the fact that he can't even keep track of people voting HIMSELF, and he isn't a lazy scum hunter, he's just plain anti-town.

[Korlash]

There is something to be said for it, in all honesty.

Not that I'd be sad at all to see WW go but after fighting tooth and nail for this sonsabitch being right is going to bring down the furies.

Man I knew it. You've only been pushing the Gorrad thing all day long so you can walk tall tomorrow talking 'bout how you 'called scum on page three' holler! God that's pathetic. At least don't make it so obvious with the constant "yeah WW would be a good wagon too, I'd be fine with that, sure go ahead" stuff... sad really... I'd expect this type of thing from me, but you?

[Korlash]

Rabble rabble rabble!

Ok fun while it lasted but let's get back to shaving the rainbow flavored sheep. We all know this Gorrad thing was just a cry for attention...

[Korlash]

You want a lame parody... I can do that...

The scene is a small case shop in Southern Kent.

Man: good morning.
Salesman: Morning Sir. Welcome to the national Case emporium.
Man: Ah, thank you my good man.
Salesman: what can I do for you today?
Man: Well I was sitting in the public Library on Therman street Thumbing through Open Letter of an Optimist by Hugh Walpole When I suddenly came over all Peckish.
Salesman: Peckish Sir?
Man: Esurient.
Salesman: eh?
Man: Eee yabba All Bored like!
Salesman: Ah, bored with the day then.
Man: In a nutcase! And I thought to myself "a little fermented Drivel will do the trick!" So I curtailed my Walpoling activites, sallied forth, and infiltrated your place of purveyance to negotiate the vending of some Crazy Consumables!
Salesman: Come again?
Man: *slight chuckle* I want to see a case.
Salesman: Certainly sir, what would you like?
Man: Well how about a little Red Herring?
Salesman: I'm afraid we're fresh out of Red Herring Sir.
Man: oh never mind, how are you on a sack of contradictions?
Salesman: I'm afraid we never have those at the end of the week, sir. We get them fresh on Monday.
Man: Pish Tosh. No matter. Well, stout Thatch seller, four instances of unscrupulous use of the word 'menagerie', if you please.
Salesman: Ah. They've been on back order, sir, for four weeks. I was expecting it this morning.
Man: It's not my lucky day, is it? Er, Vote Hopping?
Salesman: sorry Sir.
*in the interest of time*: Scummy remarks? No. Using sheeps as a plural form? no. Bussing, buddying, Bed Wetting? No sir. Carre-de-L'Est, Bresse-Bleu, Boursin? Those are cheeses sir. Cival, probate? Wrong cases. Camembert? Cheese again sir. /etc
Man: not much of a case shop, is it?
Salesman: Finest in the district sir.
Man: explain the logic underlying that conclusion please.
Salesman: I don't understand logic sir...
Man: Well in that case I shall have to kill you.
Salesman: make's sense.

And scene... Cut for time obviously, but you get the drift...

Aside from the obvious plagiarism and the basterdisingly short version, I think that went well. Four out of nine stars. I like how you seem to admit you want gorrad lynched only to end the day, yet half the people on his wagon claim the "WW wagon to be the easy one"... Seem you'd not only get your intended goal but actually do something useful "switching sides" as it were...

[Korlash]

A secret deadline? Color me intrigued, no wait, color me purple... Or seashell, the most secretive of all colors... >.> <.< is it white? who knows... *whispers* it's a secret...

And

Vote: spy

because I have a one track mind. Seriously, I'm always making a left turn somewhere... gets dizzying...

[Korlash]

Yes, I did say he was scummy. Look at my town/scum reads (from some time ago). The fact that you didn't know that tells me that you haven't really analyzed my posts. I think you are only voting for me because Yabbaguy just accused me, and you think I'm an easy wagon to jump on.

oh oh let me take this one Poker,

questionable (people who sometimes act suspicious, but who aren't that scummie in my opinion):
- Gorrad
- DGB
- iamausername
- inhim
- CKD

possible scum:
- Antihero
- Jerbs
- Katsuki
- farside22

Here you literally called Gorrad "not scummie" in your opinion. The next time you even mention Gorrad is when You're justifying your vote on WW so nothing there. A little later:

Just vote WW and we'll see who has been right. But there is just no way there is going to be a Spyrex, Gorrad, KMD, Seraphim, Xalce... etc. lynch today.

Giving the impression you are against the Gorrad wagon. Then you vote him:

alright.. the WW-wagon is death now (while he never defended himself with good arguments). I will probably vote him again tomorrow, but he isn't going to be todays lynch anymore. I would've prefered to see a WW lynch, but Gorrad was either at my possible scum list, so I'm fine with a Gorrad-lynch as well.
VOTE: Gorrad

But I'm looking at your "possible scum list"... don't see a Gorrad... Seems to me you're the one who hasn't "Analyzed your posts."

[Korlash]

@Korlash, why did you feel the need to do that?

To get reactions and responses, why else? But I doubt that's what you meant. Personally I don't like that he was given so many passes yesterday for "being new" and figured it was time to get something out there against him. Not to mention I like to look like I know what I'm doing every now and then.

[Korlash]

lynch xtoxm.

Amazing... If you move the X here, and turn the O on it's side, and use some white out in this corner... This actually reads: "Lynch Spy." Your clever use of allegory and subtle pedantic metaphor to subliminally spread the good word is appreciated but I fear it may be lost on this crowd....

[Korlash]

Wait! I have a solution! i'll put three names into a hat and choose one randomly...

*shuffle shuffle*

... It's decided then!

Vote: Glenn Beck!!!! Die scum die!!!!

[Korlash]

Ah it's gotten angry! Run DGB or he may semi-tunnel on you for 30 pages too! Run! The horror... the horror...

[Korlash]

super sincere and noob are both descriptors. I'm not "excusing" him, I'm stating he sounded super sincere D1, and acted like a noob. noobness is independent of sincerety, but a trait how to categorize his behaviour (meta climate matters a huge amount so i don't care about 5 games on some other site).

sorry but he outright said he wasn't a noob if I remember correctly so you can't categorize his behavior as such.

I used a lot of terms like "possible scum" etc.. I was just used to the fact that in the beginning of the game, everyone is a lot more careful.

Yet you still used it to define or at least defend your vote on Gorrad. seems odd to use it to back up a vote but also say it was in some way purposefully structured in a way other then intended.

Also, I think the Gorrad wagon is the best place to look.

Personally I think Werewolf would be a better place to start. The Gorrad wagon almost definitely has scum on it but I would be willing to bet the werewolf one had more, or at least a higher percentage. Then again I'm wrong half the time and incorrect the other third.

[Korlash]

You were on the Werewolf wagon. Taking that into consideration, why do you think a higher percentage of scum were on that wagon than the Gorrad one, which went to a lynch?

I know, did you have a point or just pointing out facts>?

As for why, it's hard to explain. but it has to do with how a lot of people were acting yesterday. Why do you think the Gorrad lynch had more?

[Korlash]

@Korlash
how much do you suspect Dutch one if at all? Is it greater than you SpyreX suspicion? Why or why not? Also why do you think Spy is scum I think I missed that somewhere.

I believe, short term memory lose and all that, that dutch was number two back when I did my read up, which I guess would qualify him as "pretty suspicious". As far as Spy goes I don't like how he pretty much tunneled on Gorrad all day complaining about how no one was bothering to look at his "case" then when i did he walked away saying he didn't want to talk about it. In addition, his one brief stint off the Gorrad train was him jumping on Werewolf, which would technically put him on both wagons. All in all though it's mainly the tunnel/whine/refuse to discuss thing that makes my vote stick.

sorry for triple posting but I want this to be seen and thus bolded

Again short term memory lose not withstanding, didn't KK give us his Role? I thought that pretty much explained it all.

[Korlash]

Korlash, I believe that a Day 1 mislynch almost always contains multiple scums. Also, Gorrad was obvtown. Werewolf, not so much.

While I may disagree with some of what you said sir, I will defend to the death your right to say it. As long as it's behind closed doors away from the rest of us.

I never said that Gorrad's wagon (a.k.a. mislynch) didn't contain scum, I just said the WW wagon would be a better place to start, if only for the reasoning you just said.

[Korlash]

Weird made a post earlier that didn't show up... Oh well wasn't important then I guess.

Anywho, I'm devoting my current free time elsewhere But I feel it's important to make an appearance.

YOU ARE STILL USING THE NON-COMPLETE VOTECOUNT FOR WAGON ANALYSIS.

I believe it's a more accurate representation before half the WW decided to "cave in". Using the last vote count given before the actual lynch should show which "camp" everyone was actually in. You can use the actual final vote tally to see who switched sides at the end, but ultimately doing that you would still be focused on the people originally on the WW.

The whole noob/not noob thing is not very relevant. Korlash, he has stated that it is his first game here and it's obvious he's ignorant of the meta climate.

Yeah it isn't relevant, so people shouldn't be using it to explain away his actions. And I seem to remember him saying he has played "quite a few games" or however he phrased it, so I don't get what it being his first game here has to do with anything. I can get your "I'm confident enough about that to fight for him at this stage if needed" but it does seem like your slightly contradicting stuff here. 'His newbieness is irrelevant but I'm going to use it to defend him right here!'...

As I said earlier, when you add to that nothing (and he IS around, as can be seen by the ??? response to my saying just that before) its busted and skating, hoping the winds will blow a different way.

Oh don't start seemingly making sense now... I may have to unvote you...

[Korlash]

My vote sticks. If anyone's replying to this- do me a favor and resist the urge to fling a wall back unless you see it as the best way to reply.

Perhaps I missed it, did you only look at one game a piece for your control groups or did you have a wider subject range?

Why can't everyone see that this is scum DGB we are dealing with?

Well it is hard to look at her for too long without getting teary eyed and nearly going blind from the pure awesomeness...

[Korlash]

Well she wouldn't kill

me

... Hell I hear in the Canadian version of the Taiwanese translated Persian dictionary, the entire definition of the word "awesome" consists of three letters. D, G, and I forget the rest but I don't speak Canadian so I'm sure I would have messed it up anyway.

[Korlash]

I'd throw my vote on anti-hero here but it's a dumb situation. We have two people who haven't claimed a damn thing. Unfortunately I think anti needs to elaborate more or the situation needs to be dropped. I don't see that happening so I'll be waiting for Anti-hero.

[Korlash]

Wait a second, why is the ball in my court? And why is your immediate instinct to throw down a vote on me? Same thing for RC, who followed this up with the weak "this."

Easy, at the time yours was the most likely fake claim. given a bit of time to think on the situation I was able to see Xtoxm's as slightly more unbelievable, but all in all if this is a "one of them is scum!" think, I would bet it would be you. I can still see the possibility of a town/town fuck up, but if we are going to address it you should be the one to get stuff into the open first. (The worst part of Xtoxm's claiming won't actually be the claim itself, so even going by a logical route he should claim second.) So either way you look at it "balls in your court" I suppose.

Anybody that tries to coax him into weak cop or hider, one or the other should be shot. Let xtoxm come forward with the truth on his own and then let anti do the same so we can see who really needs to die.

Why do I get a bad feeling about you over this...

[Korlash]

I kinda disagree with you Korlash. I think xtoxm should go first since his partial came first. And if anti goes first it gives xtoxm room to wiggle into a claim or basically pick something that won't make anti mad as he will be getting notice of what anti has on him prior to xtoxm claiming

But you've failed to take note that Xtoxm has no wiggle room. And when you consider how absurd Anti's reaction to it was he is the one that shouldn't be given the option to change his story.

I actually don't think you have ever voted me outside rvs.

Are you trying to seduce me Mr. Tucker? No in all seriousness this is the first game I can remember ever getting a bad vibe from you. Could just be my prolonged absence acting up.

I dont agree with this....Anti has provide some information and has called out Xtoxm...he then had follow up questions...I think if anti comes out with info, if Xtomx is lying, then it would help him navigate a lie.

Seeing as how I think anti is the most likely one lying, and seeing as how Xtoxm is stuck with what he can claim there's no reason not to press anti first. But hey, I wouldn't be caught dead agreeing with me either, doesn't make me wrong.

[Korlash]

also, dgb hasnt jump on in awhile and called me scum...I am missing that. while you are at it, would love your insight on Xtoxm and Anti.

*In a DGB accent* well I agree with Korlash because hes sooo smart, and intelligent, and sort of handsome when you turn your head and squint.

*In own voice* Oh why thank you DGB You're smart and intelligent and squinty looking too.

*In DGB Accent* And CKD is obv scum as well...

I have no idea why I was actually using my hands as puppets to act that whole thing out... *talking to hand* I'm not crazy am I? *In DGB accent* No you are not!

[Korlash]

@Korlash, I see what you are getting at but I still disagree. Hero could have kept his mouth shut and not even gave an inuendo when xtoxm gave his. It may not be a counter claim but there is a simular element in there. Can't put my finger on exact word terminology. I think if may have been some fancy non-english word I can't find in the wiki but basically anti called out xtoxm on his info and not the other way arround

I never said anyone "called anyone else out" the fact is Anti still has the potential to lie to us where-as Xtom doesn't. that mere fact suggests him claiming second would be a fallacy. Everyone is so caught up thinking Xtox may get away by "wiggling" his claim around, but the only one with wiggle room here is anti. he needs to claim first. Sorry if you disagree, but I can't change the facts of the situation.

[Korlash]

Still thinking about what I should do as confirmed Town. Last thing I want to do is clutter the thread with candid commentary, but blech, I'm getting apathetic.

actually in the event Xtom is in fact scum himself, this only serves to suggest you are not on his 'team'. In a scenario involving two scum teams in addition to the SK, you could still possibly be on the second scum team. So don't get too cocky.

[Korlash]

I'm a roleblocker. I blocked Seraphim (Xtoxm) last night. When this whole thing started, he game me the impression he got results which I knew was impossible. I guess all I did was make Xtoxm bulletproof.

so instead of pressing him subtly to get him to come clean more you outright give up yourself. Don't see the 'town' reasoning behind that one. but hey, if you think it's town to make huge game changing decisions based solely on an "impression" someone gave you, who am I to judge?

I have. There was no point.

I think she has you there Anti.

Anti's move makes perfect sense. Trying to catch him in a fake cop because he wouldn't have had a result like he was espousing.

Yeah because actually making sure the guy claimed "cop" with a "result" first would have been a terrible idea... *rolls eyes* Anti's move makes no sense regardless of his alignment.

Although, I take that bad. it does make sense as scum. If he is a scum goon who actually thought Xtoxm was claiming cop then fakeclaiming to lynch him would seem like a good idea to me. But noooo, scum would never lie to lynch what they thought was a cop... Kinda sad if I'm the only one that at least realizes this...

[Korlash]

KK: Did you give everyone a PR that makes them post like they have a stick up their asses?

Do I sense a dash of hostility? A pinch of scorn? A pomme de terre of sissy britches? No "Well Korlash, you see..." No "Agree to disagree." No snappy comeback? not even a witty retort? Just a plain order of malice with a side of fries... A baked bête noire! hash browns of hate! Spiteful spuds!... well fair play to you sir, fair play indeed. If I had a pipe I would smoke it in your general direction. And that pipe would probably be filled with a potato for some reason...

[Korlash]

Hey, Korlash. Your vote. Where is it?

On spy where it should be. my turn! Your... pocketwatch! where is it?

Boom, point Korlash.

[Korlash]

Transparency please, everyone, I'd like top 3/5/whatever suspect lists, no funny business or shenanigans. Korlash doesn't like numbers, that's fine, we won't do a 1-5 scale. But we desperately need to have clear indicators of where everyone stands at this point, we're a bunch of apathetic wrecks who are impulsively latching onto anything that sorta kinda makes sense at this point and complacently accepting replies to just the current events as significant enough contribution.

Actually this may be just the thing I need to spark some more interest in this game... Challenge accepted! *thrilling music*

While I think it's stupid that people can't see why scum would do what both Xtoxm and anti did today, I also realize that neither should/can/will be lynched today regardless of anything. So I guess they would fall under a 'wouldn't lynch' category.

I've forgotten more then I know about chev already, in fact the only thing I can remember about her yesterday was that I seemed to be against her lynch. So while I'm willing to relook at whatever case is against her today odds are I'll come to the same conclusion.

An actual top five list would include Dutch, Spy, weatherman, Poker, and either Iam, KMD, or RedCyote. Since I'm not sure, why don't we just call it a top four list and throw bob, CKD, nocase, and inhim with the other three to make an 'eh' category. We'll put DGB next to chev in the 'doubtful' section, and we'll throw you in between them and the two claims. Hopefully that accounts for everyone.

I don't care what order you put each category in, with the amount of effort I've been devoting this game I couldn't produce an accurate ranking at this time. If you want you could try applying an algebraic ordering system to the names, Or be Lexicographical on the matter, list them according to how closely they rhyme with the word Purple, or just use simple alphabetical order too list them and save yourself some time.

Since I don't think an arbitrary who's who of scummiest really matters even with the proverbial hypothetical gun at my head, I'll just leave it at having four suspects. While one could assume my vote signifies my 'number one' I'm afraid that may not be the case. Once I take the time to reexamine all four I could see it possibly going on Dutch or even Poker. (Maybe not Weatherman so I guess that would make him my 'number 4' huh...) Like I said, hopefully this will 're-energizer my tanks' so to speak and I'll be able to give something more substantial. At least this should be sufficient to ease the "where I stand" conundrum.

[Korlash]

Spyre X said Korlash dropped a serious town tell I'd like to know what it was. Other than the antihero comment, Korlash ain't done no wrong. Perhaps Korlash can explain the Spyre X case to me. That way I can see if investigating or questioning Korlash with further suspicions is worth it and get a grasp on the SpyreX situation too. That would be most helpfull. So yes Korlash enlighten me on Spyre X when you get chance and Spyre X please do the same on Korlash

I'm not going to get into my Xtoxm/Anti stuff. Everything I said is correct so you can choose to take it however you want, i find the whole topic utterly irrelevant.

As for Spy, I can only speak for myself. Yesterday he pushes Gorrad for 30+ pages without seeming to add anything to it. The one case he actually did post he goes on almost whining about how no one is paying attention to it, then when I do comment on the subject he throws his hands in the air and says he doesn't have time to talk about it. So mainly it's the pushing one guy's lynch for the entire day craving praise for his 'case' and shying away from having to actually defend it. Not much of a case but I hadn't planned on just letting my vote sit here all day. Kinda started falling away from the game sometime early today...

I

should

have time tonight to dive into the Chev stuff and see what all that's about. I'll take another gander at spy along the way. What I really want to do though is get something together on Dutch. Gun to my head I would rather lynch him then Spy at the moment just because I actually do want to discuss Spy more, but I'll save changing my vote until I can actually get something on paper.

[Korlash]

Yeah... but it's Korlash... He gets far too direct and matter-of-fact about inane stuff like tube socks on a daily basis... I wouldn't base too much on that... But moving on... (dots are fun...)

Readup on day two. Saw NOTHING added to the chevre case! Except iam's 1387, but I think too much out of that guy is complete bull so let's toss that in the garbage. In fact the only thing i've seen is that her posting today has been 'bad' and quite frankly Dutch's has been worse...

On that

Unvote:, Vote: Dutch One

Where to start, the "DGB didn't get killed" implications, the quick attack on Chev when he got called for buddying, the Chev vote which not only appears to be a contradiction, but is in and of itself just a way to ignore her 'case' against him. The fact his flip will be so revealing towards Poker, Maybe even RC. The nearly worthless play doesn't help either. His play yesterday which I won't even bother loading my notes up to look at that again. I just can't find a reason not to lynch him.

I'll have to accept leaving Spy around for a while longer... *sigh* at least that's something to look forward to tomorrow... I guess...

[Korlash]

Given how hard xtoxm went at spyreX he is a possible option for where xtoxm went. And another option I see would be Korlash as Xtoxm may have hid with him for the same reasons he hid with yabba before. I think I'll check them both out and see if either had a connection to CKD

that's a bit of a stretch there poker... Unless you're saying he made a choice based on limited reading last night as well. I would think after being in he game for a full day he wouldn't have had to resort to the same tactic. Given the fact he claimed so readily and that he identified himself as "weak cop" i don't particularly think he was interested in self survival or townie hunting.

And you guys know I'm down with the Spy wagon... Just not going to put a dude at L-1 without letting him speak first... against my lovable and caring nature.

[Korlash]

So what you're saying is, you attacked him, but in such a weak way that no one else took notice?

[Korlash]

Of course it is, I said it. Naturally it should go in some hall of fame somewhere...

[Korlash]

I didn't attack him in a weak way... I attacked him in a firm way... he's been on my scum list since the beginning of times... go iso me.

Isn't it true that's because you knew he was scum?!! Where were you on the Night of Septemburary twelfth? Who were you with? Where is Waldo! Blue or red wire! TALK DAMNIT! Don't make me go all good cop bad Korlash on you... I'll do it...

CKD killed himself on nocase???

Well that would still leave the assumed vig's kill MOA, and i see no suggestion CKD's role would prevent the other scum from also killing. Meaning their second kill would be AWOL as well. CKD bombing Nocase is a bigger stretch then the spanish Inquisition... yeah yeah...

Also, wouldn't you, as a person who suspected CKD for so long, automatically think the vig killed him? I just think that would have been your first thought.

[Korlash]

No, I don't buy that RC. Xtoxm clearly laid out that he had, and therefore probably would, go down the tactics of picking the Towniest person he thought would not die.

As much as I hate to butt in here, his reasons for picking a townie person was simply because he had to make a decision at a moments notice. The way he said it implied that would not have been the way he would choose a target had he been given more time. Thinking he would choose a target last night under the same logic he used the first night would be retarded on our part. Add in his attitude toward the game he showed yesterday, and its highly likely he would have picked someone he thought was scum. he seemed bored, almost outright tired with the game. I wouldn't be surprised if he choose a target with the expected outcome to be his own death and subsequent removal from the game.

Sure I'd love to believe he played the role trying to confirm town, but that wouldn't match up with what he said and the implications he gave yesterday.

[Korlash]

Ok cool,

Vote: spy

i'm not putting a whole lot into the Xtoxm breadcrumb, don't get me wrong I know that as an outed hider he had to in some way breadcrumb his target (logically speaking) but I'm not going to bank anything on it. (the fact i seem to think a hider is about finding scum and everyone else says it's about confirming town just suggests I wouldn't know what I was talking about anyway.)

However seeing as how there is a connection to you and CKD (which I apparently found... Hard to argue with it then I suppose), the wagon isn't as close to death as it was, and you've had some time to get a few words in edgewise I have no objections to putting my vote back on you. Seeing how I've spent the last two days, I don't think I need to go into it too much more. I still want to take the time to look at CKD myself, but I'm willing to trust my past instincts atm. Oh and the usual 'Die Scott Die' blah blah as well. have to get those low blows in while I still can you know.

If SpyreX is scum that would def confirm Korlash isn't scum to me.

I'm interested in why. Wouldn't Spy as scum make me questionable? Not only have I been "arguably" focused on him almost all game, but isn't he the one that mentioned some sort of "town tell" I did? I would think that would at least be evidence of a possible buddy relationship. Hey, I'm all for being "confirmed town" in any which way I can, but I'd like to know why if it's possible.

[Korlash]

anti blocked xtoxm n1, unclear about resolution order.

RC, why do you interpret Xtoxm was hitting scumß?

do you know what i hate about europe? every fucking little country has different keyboards.

I've had this discussion myself in another forum when I modded a game. The enigma in that one had to do with multiple RBers and what not, not important. Anywho, the way I see it, based, if nothing, else simply on the way Doc protection works, the "defensive" abilities would trigger first. (hell yeah I got a magic reference in...)

Assuming all actions happen, theoretically, "simultaneously", then a scum (or other) attempting to kill someone protected by a doctor fails, because the Doctor's ability is accounted for first. I would assume in much the same sense, a hider's ability would always hit the stack (hell yeah I did it again!) first over any other "targets" simply because it follows the defensive pattern. You would have to take into account all the "protective" roles of any sort before going on to the aggressive roles (kills, investigations, blocks, etc.) otherwise you make the defensive roles worthless.

In short, based on Krapyrighted Theory, a hider should beat a Roleblocker every time. Doubt I said anything worthwhile, but it was fun to pretend to know what I was talking about for a few minutes.

[Korlash]

Korlash's posting in general is kind of running on a single-issue platform. It's pretty much all SpyreX all the time.

Except when it's Dutch, Werewolf, or Pokerface. Other then that, yeah. I guess so. But can you blame me, he's just so damn attractive!

Noting again that he explicitly states in Post #562 that he doesn't think SpyreX is scum, but continues to vote for him, and apparently changes his mind again later down the line. This post definitely comes across as a "knows SpyreX is town" slip, actually.

I remember saying I didn't think he was scum for one particular bit I said... I don't see how that equates to me saying I don't think he is scum at all. Unless you honestly think my vote on him has been based on that one single paragraph this whole time...

Also he recently argued against someone suggesting that he is definitely not scum with SpyreX. The only motivation I can see for that is that he is scum and doesn't want SpyreX to become cleared if he dies.

I asked him why he felt that way in light of the logical folly it brings to the table... how is that arguing against it?

He makes a bizarre comment in Post #1070, suggesting that KMD should look for scum on the werewolf wagon instead of the Gorrad wagon, even though he himself was on the werewolf wagon, and the guy he's been trying to lynch for the entire game was on the Gorrad wagon. My first instinct would be that he's protecting buddies on the Gorrad wagon, but CKD was on werewolf, so unless it's some kind of crazy reverse psychology gambit, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum point of view than a town one. Just baffling.

Yup... baffling... I almost never get anything right. I'll have to write home about this one.

"Dear mom and dad. guess what I did today! no, I didn't slam it in the toilet seat again..."

[Korlash]

I feel RC owes me an apology for that last post... the nightmares to come... *sniff* the emotional distress... He.. he... bared himself to me against my will! *cries*

Attorney: son, can you show the court on this doll where specifically RC bared himself to you...

Korlash: *through tears* Everywhere!... It was just so naked...

Attorney: yes, we all threw up a little bit...

[Korlash]

Another "Lets lynch someone and cross our fingers he

may be

scum!" from Spy! My how the times stay the same...

DGB why are you not voting Spy?

Also seriously man I swore you were gonna post a monty python video when I made that spanish inquistion comment earlier. I was so disappointed

I didn't want to ruin the moment man... Just knowing you got it was enough...

[Korlash]

Girls, Girls, you're both pretty*... Can we try something constructive now? If you take this piece of paper like this, fold it here, here, and here... Turn it around like so, and voila! It's a tiny ducky, quack quack quack... Ahh the ancient art of Swedish paper folding... Shashimi... or Shamalamadingdong... Was never good with German words... anywho,

I'm saying "He may be scum" because I don't know. That's actually the whole premise of the game?

No, you're saying he 'may be scum' because your only reason to lynch him in the last couple of posts seems to be "he's useless". You seem to be sitting there crossing your fingers on nearly random lynches instead of actually finding sufficient evidence that so and so is scum. Neither one of these actions will ever let you know the person's alignment, but one of them would sure as hell give you a firm belief I would think. And I'm fairly certain that would be the one that's the most town among them.

I was wrong on Gorrad. That's fine. It happens.

Really? I thought it almost never happened when you push a dude's lynch for 30 pages without being able to back it up or add to it cumulatively... My whole thesis was based around this... Wait, crossing your fingers and blindfoldingly picking people at random among the most useless players is guaranteed to find scum right? I'll start writing it up immediately.

I'm on this site every damn day and every damn day I look at this game and even the thought of posting in it is demoralizing. Because it doesn't matter. Lynch SOMEONE. Do SOMETHING. I dont even care at this point if its me.

Here lies Spy, "Lynch someone. Do something." 1947-2011

I was going to go with something like "lived like he died" but this is so much better... Oh and I realize 1947 is off by a little bit but I bought the bargain headstone. get what you paid for I guess...

*Note: spy is not pretty... That is all....

[Korlash]

Ugh. Korlash's latest post really feels like gloating, and I don't like it. I knew I was lying down with dogs when I joined this wagon, but dammit, the fleas are worse than I expected. I don't think I can do this.

I don't see it. Sure there's sarcasm, an unfunny joke or three, and a growing annoyance with Spy's constant whining and superiority complex, but I don't see gloating in there. Still that does sound like something I would do....

Glad to know I'm apparently the spokes child for the entire wagon on Spy though. Korlash-Palin for 2012! We stand on a platform made from the broken bones of Spy supporters, don't F with us! *evil laugh*

[Korlash]

I wish I understood what the hell it was I did that put such a huge bee in your bonnet. I really, really wish I thought you were scum because then maybe that'd explain some of it. But, nope.

I will give you that in all the games of mafia I've played there's only been one person who made me have less fun overall than you. So, Kudos to that.

Not really a bee, I just don't like that you are choosing to, in a sense, refuse to play instead of actually stepping up when the pressures on. You've spent this whole game whining, walking away from arguments, and resorting to statements like "oh I'm so glad this is my last game hyuck hyuck" instead of providing any useful responses. this 'woe is me' crap of yours is getting kinda old. Lighten up man, only thing preventing you from having any fun is that morally superior stick you have lodged in your aunt Phanny.

[Korlash]

This is basically translating to me as "haw haw, you thought Gorrad was scum".

Try using babblefish next time. Whatever you're using to translate stuff isn't doing a very good job. If I were to translate it into more proper english, less dickishness, i would probably get "When you push someone's lynch for over 30 pages without ever adding a single new point or bettering an existing one and instead basing the entire thing on "I think the guy's scum and should be lynched" then the odds of hitting scum are very very small."

I don't actually get it. Even a townie pushing another townie's lynch for 30+ pages would accidentally add a new point here and there. The only reason Spy didn't that I can think of is that he didn't care about building a case, only pushing the lynch. Him walking away from the conversation we were having about his case seems to support this theory. There is no way I can see town spy pushing someone's lynch that long without caring about (or even if there is) a case.

[Korlash]

Bull shit. I posted my problems with it, you did one rebuttal, and then after I continued it you walked away. You used the line, and I'm paraphrasing from memory, "I don't have the energy to argue with korlash, I'm just going to let it all come out in the wash."

preceding this you had gone on for at least two pages about how no one was talking about your case... and when i do you want it all to sort itself out in the wash? Screw that man. You can't whine that no one is talking to you then walk away and expect me to let it slide. Especially when the "wash" turned out dirty...

And yeah, I sat on you most of day two, that's my bad there. But I wasn't calling for your lynch while I was doing it. As Iam said, there was a time span there I didn't even mention your name. Tell me, how many times did you call for Gorrad's lynch during the time you sat on him doing nothing? yeah I'm guessing quite a lot.

[Korlash]

And for all this talk of "sat doing nothing" - aside from your fetish with me, what have you really done?

Pressed the WW wagon during crunch time, Reevaluated the case on Dutch during that crunch time, put a lot of effort into probing Poker, put a lot of effort into making sure town came out ahead in the Anti/Xtoxm claim wars.

Far from an impressive list of accomplishments but I doubt it pales in comparison to a lot of other's in this game. I wouldn't say I've been overly active or useful this game, but I've done enough to let me sleep at night.

Since you felt the need to deflect that pointlessly onto me, what have you done that's worth mentioning?

Then you went on the tirade of this is crap, you are stupid, you aren't scum, you are scum, your wagon is worse than bad.

Then I opted, instead of arguing (because that was really definitely in the "not fun" category) to clearly say lets see what happens when Gorrad gets lynched.

I don't get it, why is it "not fun" when you had been crying over how people had been ignoring you for an extended period of time before this? Why would you whine for something to happen that you didn't find to be fun?

And this whole "walking away from it" is a new song and dance in your Spy love. The old one was "called scum on page three".

Did you have a point?

And I was wrong.

and I was wrong about WW. I'll be honest, Gorrad flipping town has nothing to do with my "Spy love" as you put it. I only mention it because of the "wash" comment. My problem with you is the way you pushed the lynch, not just the outcome.

[Korlash]

Gorrad flipping town has nothing to do with this?

Bull.

Even your "ohh look he's hoping someone is scum again " is a snipe back to ohh he was wrong before.

Yeah, a snipe back to the way you went about pushing his lynch, not what he actually flipped. The way you pushed the gorrad wagon was wrong and I would have come after you for it regardless of what he flipped. When have I ever used you being wrong as an attack against you? Show me. All I've done is show that you constantly fail to use actual evidence to support your attacks. If you had built up the case on Gorrad, and continued to push it and add to it, then even though he flipped town you would have at least shown adequate reason to lynch him and my biggest problem with you wouldn't even exist.

No, the asking for a case and then getting it and then (sans you) getting the "ohh thats a good lead" without votes wasn't the "not fun". You are the not fun. Even this. Every step of the way you've been extremely patronizing and insulting and if that means I'm "crying" about it well then enjoy those e-tears.

Add in the extreme amounts of apathy this game has and you've got a perfect recipe for "not fun".

Missed my point again... but hey, hide behind the veil of "not fun" if you want. I don't care anymore.

Yes. You've pulled out this new "ohh look he's avoiding me" when I've been doing that forever. Because of the above. Its not like I was even coy about it. Let Gorrad come out in the wash because sure as rain a scum flip there would have set a different tempo to things hopefully which brings:

It's not new... It was the biggest reason I had to explain my vote on you yesterday. I still don't see a point.

[Korlash]

I went for someone who I had a town lean on who I thought would not be NKed.

Xtoxm had a Town lean on neither inHim nor SpyreX according to that last statement. I actually think this is a definitively busted argument.

I'm sorry, it almost sounds like you're trying to use Xtoxm's reasoning for his night one target to imply his reasons for his night two target... I must be mistaken because Xtoxm couldn't have replaced into this game again on night two to find himself in a similar circumstance... There are too many factors you would have to overlook to think he would have "gone for someone he had a town lean on or thought would not be NKed" night two... unless I've missed your point here.

Wait, that's the crumb? Since when?

There was another one?

[Korlash]

Well... I can't argue with you there... I still think it's fair to assume based on his wording that his choice night one wasn't his intended "tactic" at all, but fine, whatever.

[Korlash]

I have to ask, is Xtoxm is the player to use his role for his own interest or for the interest of the town? I only remember playing with him once or twice, but he never struck me as the player who wouldn't try to at least help out with his role (Even if he was bored with the game). Like for instance, if you do want to use your role to confirm town, wouldn't it be better to confirm players the majority of people have problems with? I mean look at the names on his town list, Dutch, CKD, Kmd all fairly popular in the possible scum categories. It would make more sense to target someone like Dutch and prove him town then target me and prove me town. hell, it's just as likely he targeted CKD as he targeting me if he was using his list. On it's own, there's really no way to distinguish between those two.

The important things with the crumbs is that anything made before he actually claimed is sorta moot. Him claiming had to change his game plan so even if the "order is relevant" was intended to be a crumb. No guarantee he followed up on it after he claimed. (Also, it might have simply been the crumb to inform us he targeted yabba, not even intended to be a crumb for future targets.) All in all, I think everyone is reaching when it comes to who Xtoxm might have targeted and I'm not seeing the benefit in it.

[Korlash]

it's not blatant in terms of contradiction but it feels like a *twitch*.

I actually did think it sounded a might contradicting when i first wrote it, hence the "()" part I added to it. I don't think Xtoxm was interested in continuing to play, but I still think he would put the town's best interest above his boredom. I've also been slowly looking into how I think a hider should work. My first two quotes were made when I was under the impression a hider would seek out scum. While I still think it's dumb to town hunt, I do see the merit in using it to weed out suspects. So While I don't think he would have targeted a person he thought was town, I do think he may have targeted a person he thought was town if that person was also a suspect of others. This would allow him to accomplish the apparent goal of a hider while potentially clearing a major player making future scum hunting endeavors easier.

To the point: Less a contradiction, more the culmination of my ever evolving opinion pertaining to the recent discussion. I still think it's stupid to put any merit in a possible target of his, but I'm greatly enjoying the discussions about it. It's giving me the unusual feeling that I am experiencing personal growth as a player... Maturing if you will... *shudders* that's a scary thought.

Korlash kind of twists around whenever mentioned as a possible hider target.

yup, I'm very adamant that I wasn't his target... But only because it doesn't make sense. I'm not big on illogical assumptions. Don't get me wrong, I love taking leaps of fate. But there's too much you would have to ignore to even think he targeted me. And it's not the twist, it's the Charleston. Trust me, twisting in a chair behind a desk in a tiny office loft is not nearly as impressive as what I've been doing. Give me the credit earned pal...

[Korlash]

Korlash, have you even mentioned inHim once in this entire game?

I want to say yes but I wouldn't be bale to say where without looking into it, so I guess no... Not in any substantial way.

Why: I was masoned with him once in a game. He believed Zeenon to be town and claimed mason with Zeenon when xtoxm was only mason with me. yay that was rough for me. I probably deserved it though for something I did to xtoxm once so I hold no hard feelings toward him for anything and think he is a player that has certainly grown in skill over time.

Was Zeenon under the rest of the town's scrutiny at the time, or did he just do it willy nilly? I'd love to read the game myself, but I can't even manage to find the time to read this one. I figure since you were there asking would be quicker and far more revealing.

It is far more believable that he went the simplier route and either went to the person he thought most towny in the order mattering list, Korlash. Or the person he though most scummy, Spyre X. And I am willing to bet pretty much anything on that. Should SpyreX flip town I want Korlash dead.

You seem far too sure about this... You've put a lot of thought into discounting the Inhim thing by saying it was made before deadline, and yet don't seem to factor in the town list being made before the claim. given how the list does seem to simply be there to breadcrumb his night one target, it would only make sense for him to reiterate his target again once he claimed. while I still disagree with using it as evidence, both the inhim and the Spy theories make sense.

You're also banking everything on Xtoxm here, even when you have three (or I guess at least two) possible targets. You've never struck me as the type of player to bet on one unsure thing like this before. I would think with a dead scum, a possible connection to him would be a highlight from you. yet I can't even remember you talking about the possible CKD/Spy connection, or even looking into him yourself.

[Korlash]

@Korlash, Yes Zeenon was getting heavily suspected and well you should remember part of that game already. You replaced into it later on for hohum. Didn't you read/remember what happened there? Or you just been on hiatus too long?

ha, that's funny. The first thing I did when I clicked on the link was to mutter "I thought I was in this game." Then I clicked on one of the day links and was told it no longer existed, got fed up and came back here. I even looked at the player list, how did I miss that...

And I'll level with you. I don't know if it's the hiatus, the booze, or just all the fame and success I've been having but I can hardly remember any of the games I played before. Aside from the highlights, (Clerks, loser, to a lesser extent Deathnote and food fight) it's mostly just 'scenes' from here and there all jumbled up.... But hey, the past is just useless memories. Who cares about that junk, the future is where all the action is so let's move on...

Xtoxm stuck his neck out to push his belief onto the unwashed masses. This would mean that, assuming he would target people he thought was town, he would most likely target someone highly suspected by others. Maybe it's the huge assortment of beautiful super model girlfriends I don't have or maybe the large number of lines of pixie sticks I didn't snort with them last night but I can't actually remember who the town's biggest suspects yesterday were, but I know Dutch stands out. So does CKD. I want to say bob for some reason too... Point being, if he did target someone he thought was town I think it would only make sense he targeted someone under a fair amount of suspicion from the rest of us.

Time to finally do some actual grunt work on spyreX and not just parade arround with what I think Xtoxm did.

*Sigh* I hate you always being right about stuff... Guess we can play later then...

In general spy says ckd is partnered to gorrad for earlier logic he never looked into. Seems to believe CKD is scum or at least agrees with the wagon on CKD but never goes into as much detail everyone else is looking at or says what 60 he agrees with. He wants gorrad first and won't go at ckd without it. Is that 20% more that important? If you look at day 2 spyreX never really goes back to CKD, he is all dutch all the way. SpyreX doesn't mention ckd again until after CKD is already dead. All quotes I gave here were from day 1 and CKD doesn't mention CKD during day 2. It seems that Spyre X thought ckd was scum but never went after ckd directly at all. He just used ckd as evidence on . It is highly possible SpyreX had alteirior reasons for linking ckd and gorrad and reasons not to go after CKD. So SpyreX makes for a likly ckd buddy.

As much as I would love to just agree with you and grab the wiffle bats, *in a Mitch Hedberg accent* that just wouldn't be my style... So let's see what a point-counterpoint debate nets us.

I think your first sentence says it all. He labeled CKD as scum based almost entirely as being scum with Gorrad. Looking at the way he pressed Gorrad, regardless of his alignment it clearly reaks of something personal. Whether that is some form of vengeance, an ego thing, or a lifestyle change I can't say for sure. But if it ever came down to a Gorrad v. his number two, three, eight, goat, etc... He would logically push for Gorrad fist. And once Gorrad fliped town, anyone he primarily suspected as his partner would logically fall down a peg or three...

what kind of ulterior motives are you talking about? Also, did you miss a word or two on the "He just used ckd as evidence on -blank-"? seems like you were going somewhere and the record skipped, so to speak...

[Korlash]

Meanwhile, we're all being a grand bunch of egotists again. Who are we willing to lynch?

I'm starting to remember why I want Dutch dead... So him, spy, and Poker in only a slight order change. the only one out of Inhim, RC, and Bob I can see reason for me to vote/lynch would be RC. although I can't find any reason against the Inhim lynch, so I suppose that isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

Still, short of something fairly convincing I don't see me changing my vote to anyone other then dutch/Poker.

[Korlash]

P-edit: huh? what big suspicions you got on me Korlash, either its in what i ain't read or you ain't said it yet

Oh it wouldn't do you justice to try and count them on my fingers without some pre-planning of how to phrase whatever it is I'm going to say, but if you bare with me I'll give it my best shot.

Your assuredness of scum being between me and spy end of story. The link you posted actually going against this theory of yours yet you seem to take no notice of it. This is now the second deadline you've started reassuring us you'll vote for someone come deadline. My earlier suspicions which i can't remember off the top of my head...

There are a couple other things that I'm not going to mention but I'm sure you can understand that. If it makes you feel any better the list goes spy, Dutch, then you, and I would probably be against your lynch if either of the other two were possible.

[Korlash]

you seem to disagree with me or think the conection between Spy and CKD is a little different. Care to enlighten me on what aspect you see different or review how you believe them too be connected. If you already said it elsewhere then point me too it.

Short answer, not really. Long answer, well it was almost two years ago. I was hiking in the Yukon with a guide we all called Jimmy. now his name wasn't actually Jimmy, but Mark called him that one morning while packing up and it just kinda stuck... *thirty minutes* ... And he jumped in after him without a second thought. I mean there we were, forty below, in our skives and he just jumps into the river without thinking. I mean, hello, once you break through that ice you aren't coming back... *another thirty minutes* ... You think the bear was scary, it didn't even match to that chipmunk. But hell that didn't stop Jimmy, he just unbuttoned his cuffs, pulled his sleeves back, and went toe to toe with that thing for hours. Obviously, to the rest of us it was hilarious... Hey? where did everyone go? Hello?... awww... ;_;

Look, I don't disagree with you. I merely provided a counter argument to yours assuming Spy's Gorrad push came from a townie's perspective. His actions following Gorrad's flip seem to actually add up. The biggest problem with him is his actions preceding the flip. He didn't call CKD his number two, he didn't really go into detail with CKD, and his main reason for partnering the two seem to actually match his own relationship with CKD as well.

You actions of slightly suspecting me kinda remind me of clerks where you had some comments on suspecting me back then even when I was practically confirmed town. I had forgotten or overlooked those moments in my head until now because you never voted me back then. You were suspicious and yet I was almost confirmed. Your actions were confusing back then, but we were both town there so perhaps they same can be said here. And perhaps those same comments can be applied to explain what you said about antihero earlier. hmm. I have lost some skill at reading you given your hiatius either way

Why did you feel the need to bring up this game? Don't take this the wrong way, but you aren't anywhere close to confirmed here, my suspicions of you are not 'slight', at least not to me, and if I remember correctly, you weren't confirmed town until LYLO, a situation we seem far from in this game. The only thing I get from it is you maybe reassuring yourself on your read on me... trying to ruminate on if my play here matches another known town game of mine... But that seems odd as you are already fairly sure that spy is the scum between us... Wait, why are you voting inhim? Isn't one of me and spy scum? Less inclined for CKD connections... ironic... when I started this post I was flowers and daisies with my Spy vote... after having to think about it, and having to look at my 1717 again, I have to agree with the sentiment. I don't often have epiphanies, especially in the time span of a single post but when I do I have to change something up, or else it may happen again...

Unvote:, Vote: Poker

I see it ending the same way regardless of who my vote is on so I don't see it hurting anything to vote you right now. I would really rather Dutch die before you, but I'm crossing my fingers our vig takes care of him tonight. Wishful thinking I suppose, but hey... I'm a dreamer.

Ok where to start, Well how about at the end. I'm all for the "helpful" people come deadlines, but you're too much really. This is twice now you've assured us you'll come in and save us when deadline approaches, and twice now you've voted, while mentioning the hammer, but not actually hammering... seriously, it seems like a copy paste from yesterday. Your 180 on Spy, be it poor timing or coincidence or what have you, doesn't fill me with confidence. This name drop of clerks, which only serves to make me paranoid you're trying to paint a picture of me and you as townies together, traveling around in a van solving crimes with a talking dog named Dante... And last but not least, or maybe it is least I'm not good with numbers, the line "blah blah blah, you didn't vote me then.. etc." For some reason I seem to remember you saying this earlier... Maybe I'm wrong, but you did say it now... so that's at least half the times I thinking of...

All in all I think I should have done this a while ago... I couldn't get past the Dutch thing, but now I don't think it really matters...

Oh, on the Inhim thing... I don't get it? I obviously missed something, so I'm guessing I need to look back at something Iam said... *sound effects while reading* Ehh not bad... Mostly CKD connection, I'm interested how many other people were on his "would kill this guy" list that he also didn't say anything about, but too lazy to find out. The jumping whatever wagon looks pretty paints a nice picture, haven't fact checked it, but it sure sounds nice. And nocase death, I personally like WIFOM, it doesn't get the credit it deserves sometimes... But I think that's putting a lot on Inhim running the scum team which I think we all agree is at least 3 people... Combine his lack of interest and his replacement and I see the logic in his wagon. And I'm sure there is something even preceding Iam's post, so all in all I can't find any major fault in it. Haven't done the legwork needed to join it, probably won't seeing as how Poker is so much fun to play with... But it's nice to actually know why a person is on the chopping block for once...

[Korlash]

Can I do a sweep on people's stances on Korlash's alignment real quick? I still don't have a damn clue about what to make of him.

I'm getting a fairly solid read on him actually... he's a blinding ray of brilliance... a miniature Buddha, covered in hair... Loved by all. Men want to be him, women want to be with him, undead zombies want him to eat their brains... Just, an all around good guy I think. And boy is he modest...

Wouldn't have to equate to inHim running the team if he wasn't the only one nocase had pegged:

Define pegged? based solely on what you've posted here and not the reread it requires, I don't think being on a list of suspects equates to being pegged... I mean the list you posted has Inhim second from the last, hardly the hot seat...

[Korlash]

I'll read what korlash said and respond to it tomorrow. Something I do want a general idea on though. "What is the avg or number of mafia you'd expect to have in a 20 person setup?" I am wondering if today might be lylo or mylo

Even if it is what good is worrying about it going to do?

I feel like I'm pretty offbase with my reads this game. I think I need to do something I should've done a long time ago: submit my freewill to our resident scumhunting goddess.

Aww, you don't have to call me a godess RC... Making me blush here...

Also, yabbaguy wanted you dead, and he died for it so....

As much as I hate to be the guy who's always right and people look to for support in times of need like Zombie attacks and clogged drains, uh didn't most people use the name Yabba synonymously with the word confirmed town? I'm no college professor on the subject, but with end game at least approaching I would think removing 'confirmed town' regardless of the direction they were going to be a viable option for any scum.


I have to admit Dutch flipping town has slightly lessened my Poker suspicions... I still think he looks pretty bad on his own and greatly await his responses, but I feel like looking elsewhere for the moment. I need to follow up on something when I get back from work... Maybe it will pan out, maybe it won't... but if I were a betting man I would say it would have to be one of those, most definitely.

[Korlash]

Perhaps, perhaps. But have I not been calling you rock-hard-unlynchable-townie since day 1? And you are still delighting us all with your posts.

Exactly... I delight people... so they keep me around... What did yabba ever do except scum hunt and provide useful discussion... Why would anyone want him around...

Also, I get that you call me things, but I don't think I have the wide spread love from the rest of these saps, er... sponges, that I get from you. Yabba was seemingly 'well liked' and 'confirmed townish' and 'had good hygiene' and 'funny'... me and him were nothing alike...

Yes I was reasurring myself because well you are acting rather funny with all your wierd bizarre stories. Some aren't even remotly funny and so those ones almost looklike you are putting up a smoke screen or trying to get others just to skim your posts and avoid you and or your banter. And yay I explained how you would be akin to a coasting scum if you were scum. So yay my read on you is wobbly. I expected SpyrEX to do something different earlier and as he did not do it I thouight he may be less likly scum. All this kinda makes you more likly scum. Has my opinion of the 2 of your really changed? Nope I still think one of you is scum and was targeted by xtoxm just I'm not as sure which of you it is

You're surprised I'm not funny? When have I ever been funny? why is that suspicious to you? Couldn't I put up a smokescreen and be funny at the same- ha ha ha... yeah I couldn't keep it straight either... Let me put it this way, do you actually think I act differently (at least when it comes to not being funny) in accordance to my role?

And why did I vote inhim? I thought Kubla would have his rules force a no lynch if there was no majority. No lynches suck so I voted inhim as he was second choice since you or spy weren't gonna die. As far as my vote not being a hammer well other people unvoted or wouldn't vote so I took a different position on the wagon. Point is I was still on those wagons so I kept my word. Bickering over the position is not something either of us could really control at those points

Why would you think in a 21 player game we would auto no lynch without a majority? Also, you clearly said you thought Inhim was scum. Why is your reasoning simply "to prevent no lynch"? wouldn't you, I don't know, fall on your reasoning why he was scum? And that's my point. You made sure to make it your "word" you would be on the wagon... I don't see lynching someone as something you should have to sign up for in order to participate, know what I mean?

What? You thought me and him were both scum together? What gave you that idea?

Not important now I guess...

will help us figure out when its time to mass claim and or how important a lynch is in terms of mylo vs lylo. Also I can't remember last time i was in a 21 player setup. I may have never been in one so knowledge can be useful for those reasons too.

How important a lynch is? I would think they are all important, but I get what you mean. I guess I can understand the knowledge thing as well.

Ok so I followed up on my suspicions and don't see reason not to press it.

Vote: iamausername

He calls Chev obv town day one without any sort of reasoning I could find. he figures that out day two and pushes what amounts to a forced case on her. He makes a couple mentions to CKD during this push, but when CKD flips scum he sweeps it under the rug without any effort at all. He pushes Anti for the first day and a half but when he claims he gets on my case for "pot shots"? I don't get it, Anti was your bread and butter up until the claim, yet you try and divert my attention away from him instead of allowing me to prob his claim a little. Bullshit man...

[Korlash]

What was forced about it?

I spent two minutes staring at my computer trying to think of a more fitting word then forced, which is a long time when you're staring at a brightly lit computer machine thingy... I don't think it's the proper word but it's the closest I could get to my feelings on the matter. Now with that in mind...

You come out first with the two quotes taken out of context and tried to squeeze a point out of it. She had taken a stand in her first post (I don't think I can accept it) and from that point on was simply trying to get an explanation out of a tomato. ignoring her stance and choosing to misrep her posts isn't the strongest way to start off what I consider your "case" post on her. Moving on.

Your second 'point' essentially falls to reasoning as to why she posted her, how did you put it, 98 paragraphs? calling her response to Inhim 'snotty' and some sort of scum ploy is laughably ridiculous. If that was her entire point behind the post she sure lost interest in it fast seeing as how she mentioned Inhim... how many times after that? Right, none. You forced a point by invention some malicious reason behind her posts.

your katsuki 'point' is a sarcastic irrationality. It's perfectly reasonable to ask for reasons why something isn't pro town when someone accuses you of doing such, especially when you are also looking for reasoning behind their already placed vote on you. (something overlooked here.) We can argue the differences between not pro-town and scum some other time, the point is her response to kat wasn't unreasonable and it's evident by your inability to actually come out and say it, instead having to resort to more around the bush means.

your '182' comment might have been something if you had said anything alone with it. By itself it's a sorry pointless jab at nothing.

Your 'anti town' comment is clearly bull shit. she says very clearly she finds it anti-town, then you claim she isn't talking about her own read. That's fabricating evidence to support a previous 'point'.

I can't find fault with your CKD point, although I disagree with it. I don't actually read it as her listing jerbs as number two and Dutch as number three, simply her saying WW is her top, followed by these three. i could state my reasoning for it but it seems pointless. her reasoning for her CKD vote was lacking so it's at least a viable point on your end. I think that makes one so far...

You're 'contradiction' point is a stretch, although my refute to it would also be a stretch. I take it back to when she actually switches her vote off CKD and onto Dutch. She says she "didn't know where to start", seeing as how she didn't give reasoning behind her CKD vote that seems to fit. Switching to Dutch after actually taking the time to think about it would fit with what she's saying. You might have actually had a reasonable point here but you choose to label it as a "contradiction", streatching it way worse then it was.

Your comment to her "I missed where we confirmed Xtoxm" is just stupid.

And your comment on her last post seems off. Not only does it make sense that opinions at the end of day one and the opinions nearer to the end of day two differ due to recent activity, but it also makes sense for people to give their opinions on the current 'topics of discussion'. I've read her post and I just don't get this one.

So all in all we have one 'good' point, one I just don't understand, and the rest completely fabricated bullshit. I think 'forced' is putting it rather mildly.

I don't even understand what you're accusing me of here. After CKD was already dead I... didn't try to get him lynched?

My bad, I often forget I don't communicate well with people of greater intelligence then myself. I meant that your look into CKD was highly lacking. Amounting to a mere 30 min with a resulting one line of near pointless drivel. I find it hard to believe with the amount of effort you put into other aspects of the game, that your analysis of a known scum would be so lacking and ineffective. In addition, i find it hard to believe in the two and half pages worth of CKD iso you couldn't find anything to actually point out or mention... I'll admit, I haven't done a CKD read myself... maybe there literally isn't anything... But your resulting nothing doesn't seem right seeing as how much effort you have put elsewhere.

I have explained repeatedly why Antihero would obviously not have claimed when he did if he was scum.

Also, the point of my 'pot shots' post was not that you should stop pressing Antihero, it was that if you actually thought he was scum, you should probably commit to that with a vote instead of leaving it lounging on someone you didn't seem to actually care about one way or the other at the time. Evidently I was wrong about how strongly you felt on your SpyreX vote.

Do you still think Antihero is at all likely to be lying scum? Why?

yeah your comments towards me don't relay that conveyance at all. I've read them multiple times over and can't see them fitting your explanation given here. guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

And likely to be scum? no. I think he is still

possible

scum but I don't feel any urgent need, want, or reason to press the matter. I could see a time where my feelings on the matter change, one way or the other, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Why do you ask?

[Korlash]

You used to be funny when we played before your hiatus. Let's put it this way. Are you having fun making these bizzarro stories in your posts? If no one is laughing then I can't see how you are having fun. Seems more like you are waisting everyones time with smoke and mirrors. And I think you would do that as scum. So yay I guess I'd expect you to be funnier as town or more importantly more relevant with your logic and fun as apposed to making absolute non-sence

Eh, I'll take the criticism. For what it's worth I am having fun, but it's never been my intention to damage the game. guess it's going to take me a little bit more to get back into the groove, so to speak.

when did IAMUser do those two things? I don't see it

Called Chev 'obv town' day one:

This is bad. All of these people should probably pick one of Chevre and Gorrad, or do a much better job of pushing their current vote, realise that still nobody cares, and then pick one of Chevre and Gorrad.
...
p.s. as per above, I'll be picking Gorrad when this post inevitably fails to attract anyone to a Xalxe/Antihero lynch, because Chevre is obvtown.

Linking CKD to Chev:

Post #170: I'm not convinced that CKD read it either. If Chevre turns out to be scum, I'm pretty sure CKD should take a bullet just for this post.

CKD moves down to #1 suspect given a scum flip on Chevre.

Other thoughts on CKD during that time frame:

Post #562: Korlash now arguing for the sake of arguing, and making some incredibly dumb comments in the process. I think he might have accidentally unearthed something worthwhile though, the Xalxe/CKD stuff seems like there is a definite inconsistency going on from SpyreX.
...
It really doesn't make a lot of sense, but the way he lets Xalxe off is the first time CKD has appeared to show any concern about figuring out another players alignment in this game, and now I'm thinking it's possible that he's just really misguided town.

thoughts on CKD before all this:

Someone asked me what I thought of Gorrad and CKD. Gonna have to cop out on a CKD read, he's entirely under my radar at the moment. I don't mean that he's lurking, just nothing in his posts has given me any particular opinion one way or the other on his alignment.

First placement of CKD on scum list: (third 'scummiest')

[rest off town]

RedCoyote
curiouskarmadog
Chevre
Antihero

Entirety of CKD readup:

I guess I'll go look over CKD's posts and see if anything glaring comes up, but I'm pretty sure this is the way to go.
...
OK, all I really get from CKD's iso is that dutch one is obvtown, and I knew that already.

He pushed CKD to his top five scummiest players the entire day two with almost no reasoning behind it, then seems to skirt actually trying to ascertain anything from his readup of CKD.

in posts following this one he does proceed to discuss CKD connections with Inhim, most specifically once he started pushing the Inhim wagon. And he even returns to his Spy/CKD connection he mentioned in post 16, at one point calling it "probably the most suspicious interactions with CKD out of anyone" but abandons the vote and pressure do entirely to something I said.

So I suppose my suspicions here come down to His putting CKD high on his scum list for no reason of his own, linking CKD to Chev, quickly abandoning the Spy/CKD connection through no action of Spy's, and being uncharacteristically lacking in his researching of CKD.

[Korlash]

Antihero, you slacker, I know you're out there. You've been posting in every game you're in (and quite actively, might I add) except this one. Give up the slot or get your butt in here. You've got freaking results for us, man.

Maybe I missed something, but how does a Roleblocker have "results" on his own? You're for a massclaim right, wouldn't it ironically make more sense for him to "stay gone" until after the rest of us claim. You almost sound eager to have him come in and tell us what he did right off the bat... Seems a little off...

Well you just dropped a heavy implication that DGB, KMD and Korlash are all scum together, while you are voting for none of them.

Here you go again... Surprise suprise... Well what do you know about that!... Well well, so it's come to this... I know you are but what am I?... Uh, a stopped clock still finds a nut twice a day... what the hell was I talking about again... Right.

There isn't a man, woman, or cyborg child in this game that wouldn't make a statement like "DGB wouldn't lynch Korlash"... how the hell is saying that anything close to an implication? I don't get why she wouldn't want to lynch KMD, so there might be something there. but trying to say he's 'implying' some sort of scum trio without backing it up is just you making something bigger then it is. Talk about mud slinging...

[Korlash]

Well, the idea being that the people he blocked are a little less likely to be scum (couldn't submit kill). I'm just thinking it would improve our chances at hitting scum.

And it would improve the massclaim AND our chances if we wait... And, no offense intended, but that's a pretty dumb reason. We have to assume there is at least two, probably three, and even in a small possibility four scum left... Being blocked by Anti doesn't in anyway actually reduce someone's chance of being scum.

He is trying to undermine DGB's credibility, but he's not willing to actually come out and accuse her of being scum, just make underhanded digs at her.

Digs? Do you mean to say it has happened more then once? And do you disagree with his statement then? If so, why?

into a post i made whilst incredibly inebriated.

Well that explains why you thought I was annoying... Here I thought it was something I did... Silly drunks, when will you learn Korlash is way too complicated a literature to grasp whilst intoxicated, under the influence, or on a Trix bender... *shakes head*

in vino veritas

[expletive]! He knows Latin! Run away! Head for the hills! Head for Azerbaijan! Ahh, everybody run!

[Korlash]

IAM did link ckd and chevre but that case makes sence as CKD obviously didn't take time to read chevre's long as heck post and yet CKD still BS commented on it. Had chevre flipped scum I can see how that link could have made sence.

As far as IAMUSER's placement of CKD on his day 2 scumlist, CKD was not the only one he did not go in depth into why they were high on the list.

As far as I'm concerned only way IAMMUSER is scum is if Spyre X is also. IAMUSER was the most towny looking player about the time me and you and DGB? were going after SpyreX. If IAMuser was scum and SpyreX wasn't, I think IAMUSER would have put alot of effort into rallying the rest of the players to vote SPYREX as it would have been a very good opertunity from his viewpoint. So IAMUSER being scum and SPYREX not being scum would be ilogical to me.

It should be noted that I am not making a case that SPYREX being scum would garauntee IAMUSER being scum. It would make it 'possible' for IAMUSER to be scum but I don't think its likly atm

* Exactly, 'if chev flipped scum'. There was almost no actual reasoning behind CKD himself being scum, it was all 'plausible connection' the whole way. I myself have 'linked players' before either one of them flipped sure, but never without each player having their own reasoning for being scum and never in order to push one of their lynches. (i.e. well player X and player Y might be scum partners, so that's another reason to lynch player X...) Iam never actually directly did this, but as the only real thing he said about CKD tends to come to a close at "If Chev flips scum..." it does seem to imply CKD is only scum/should only be looked into after we lynch Chev, thereby furthering her lynch.

* No but CKD is the only one to so far come up scum. That seems like a sufficient reason to warrant his explanation wouldn't you agree? especially considering his lacking attitude toward reviewing CKD after the flip, you would think having him placed higher on the scum radar would mean he would have already had something on CKD, yet failed to see it/mention it when reviewing him?

* Why do you always get set in your ways when it comes to Spy? Also, how is it you know what Iam would do in that situation or what his viewpoint would be? This game follows a pattern, it stalls out until deadline approaches at which point the people jump on whatever is available. Any work put in by the scum short of a week or two away from deadline is essentially wasted effort. I would be so bold as to claim it nearly impossible to 'rally' this town, or even a fraction of it's player base, with anything short of impending deadline or confirmed role results... if Iam really was so townie looking at the time, why put in the effort and risk loosing that cred just for one potential mislynch? (Hypothetically implying Spy as town for sake of argument, this does not reflect the opinions of Korlash or Korlash affiliates and their sister company 'Bender, Bender, Bender, Rodriguez, and Flan.')

As far as the Bob thing goes I think both sides are being stupid. DGB is the only one actually pushing the Cyber vote/attacks for the correct reason while everyone else piddles about in conspiracy theories that would make even steadfast bigfoot believers shake their heads in utter disappointment; meanwhile Bob keeps falling back to the bottle as if it actually makes a difference in what he said. Instead of constantly repeating that, how about explaining why you made the statement "DGB would not lynch KMD" because that seems to have come from no backing at all, inebriated or not.

[Korlash]

I'm just doing what the scumputer tells me to at this point. I obviously cannot scumhunt accurately in this game with my own brain. I mean, I know this is rather blunt, but I honestly am a little forlorn. The negative emotions attached to being so wrong about my independent reads are eating at me. I wasn't right about werewolf, I wasn't right to hammer Gorrad, I wasn't right to hammer Chevre, and I wasn't right about inHim.

My conclusion then is that one of my comfortable townreads (Cyberbob) is probably not town.

How do you feel about Iam? If he was one of your "comfortable townreads" wouldn't it make more sense that he is the 'probably not town' among them? He was a huge driving force behind Chev and Inhim, accounting for 50% of the reads you have a problem with. it almost seems like you're picking Bob willy nilly, not a great way to get over 'depression' for past wrongdoings you know.

Somehow I had it in my head that she thought he was town or was liking his posts or something. As for why that was in my head... I dunno to be honest.

So you can't explain why you said something a bunch of people seem to have a problem with... That's unfortunate...

Oh, and I've never seen Spy abandon a game before, but, sure enough, you wackos made him do it.

And I was just starting to enjoy his company too...

[Korlash]

Why do I feel like this game suddenly just got a little bit cooler...

I everyone aware that we're lynching Cyberbob?

For what? I mean, even with him unable to explain what he said, how does it make him scum? Are there other reasons I seem to be missing, or is it just that?

[Korlash]

Overall, Cyberbob is trying his darnedest to appear most harmless.

He's not scum hunting.

So we lynch him. Capice?

Nessun non capisco.

I don't disagree with your assessment of him though I think it's fairly weak to even suggest a lynch much less follow through with it.

And of course I still prefer the person running the show over the person apparently watching it.

[Korlash]

Scumtells? There are more then one?

[Korlash]

Nessun non capisco... what does that mean?

I don't understand.

Iam said why he was linking ckd and chev back then. CKD gave a poor reason for thinking chevre was town. I didn't read that long as heck post, some others didn't and I really doubt ckd read it. I can easily see the logic for it.

I'm sorry, where did Iam say this? And what was CKD's 'poor reason'?

SpyreX linking Gorrad to ckd was still poor as he assumed ckd was more so random then never talked about. Assuming that instead of actually looking into why gorrad brought it up is a point against spyreX as it shows possibility of an altieror reasons SpyreX may think ckd is scum ie they are scum together

I would think the same would apply to Iam with his CKD/Chev linking. granted, I can't seem to fully understand you here, so I'm probably confused as to what you are talking about. What is this in response to?

Iam had ckd in his list as you say and I guess thats a somewhat valid point so if you want to grill him on that then go ahead. As it stands i am still torn on you vs spyreX. Yes I still think one of you is scum but i am less sure which one. And if its mylo as i suspect then i want to be sure
If you did grill him on this some already then link me to it, I'm not 100% aware of things at the moment. Not too awake or sleeping well. I thought I knew why bob was saying DGB wouldn't lynch KMD. I made a possible guess at it earlier as DGB failing to actually push a wagon on KMD time and time again, cyberbob drawing his assumation from that somewhere but apparently i was wrong about that guess.

someone calling a now known scum scum for no real reason is a 'somewhat valid' point? I know I've been gone for a while but that seems like a bit more then somewhat valid... And for a link just check out 1799, 1806, 1817, etc... It's all good...

The idea of bob, dgb, kmd being scum together would be an explaination but I'm not exactly seeing it.

Korlash, you have stated you have different ideals and or means of linking players. Tell me something korlash name your top 3 to 4 people who you think is scum. Say why and or if you think they are all scum together. Am I correct is assuming IAMUSEr is your top?

That would seem a little too convenient a scum pairing, plus it would contradict your own stated "MYLO" theory, unless you mean to imply there is a fourth unknown that you failed to include.

As for my top 3 to 4 Iam, fate, you, and... um... That's it for now I think. I don't see any point in trying to make up reasons they are all partners together. Isn't it enough I've given reasons why they are scum individually? Iam is the one I'm currently going after so to speak, I guess you could call that being my top.

Hmm, this is a question I should answer. To my recollection, the answer is yes, but I guess I should actually research this.

Easy now... >.> Other people are here. You don't want to ruin your credibility by implying I said something worthwhile... That being said... A response would be nice, yes...

[Korlash]

If I may play devil's advocate here, wouldn't talking about who is a good lynch target stick that person's name in your head? Wouldn't then, when you just post a scum list willy nilly, you end up saying the ones you talked about because they are already front and center? Obviously it's fixed by fact checking before you post but if he's posting the name of a dead person then regardless of his alignment he obviously didn't fact check.

[Korlash]

Ehh I was going to respond to Poker but I've seemed to have lost interest... I suppose DGB's absence has extinguished what was left of that fire... *depressingly heart filled sigh*

Maybe I'll take some time tomorrow to reread the last couple of pages and get myself back into the spirit...

[Korlash]

Or, or... this is just a thought... more Iam votes... Just going to push that onto the table... Right there, perfect.

[Korlash]

Why? That course of action makes no sense for a scum RB.

How so exactly? The way I see it being so "obviously town" you can flaunt about it seems to be something in scums benefit. Add in the fact that had a scum roleblocker actually roleblocked a person, there is no way that claiming would have been any more risky to them then if they were a town roleblocker.

The argument "it makes no sense as scum therefore I must be town" is just stupid.

Massclaim? We may well be in milo, so I support.

I totally do not support. I find it crude, unflattering, and even... oh, massclaim? ha... thought you said something else. Can't put us in any worse situation then we are in I suppose. Though it's a good thing Cyber knows he's been blocked so we couldn't potentially catch him there... Honestly I've forgotten to follow along, did he already claim? Did he know you had blocked him? Has revealing this actually helped us out at all? What the hell Red...

[Korlash]

Ok Guys, are we lynching Iam or Fate? I honestly can't tell anymore you guys have done a good job keeping me in suspense! Can I make this a 'make your own adventure' mafia and skip to the page where you guys surprise me with a dead Iam? I mean Arbor day is coming up and I know you guys have been trying to get me a present... hint hint...

[Korlash]

Oh yeah ere it is, he claims Roleblocke knowing that Xtomz is lying. Why in the FUCK are you all acting like this clears Anthero?

Thank you! I mean I know you're bussing your buddy to say it but still... It's nice to know I'm not crazy.

Korlash, you really like Kmd, eh?

Sorry, I can't honestly say I know what a Kmd is. Hurt feelings aside, what makes you say this?

[Korlash]

Because of your ignoring the wagon and pushing for lynches on people who you have no hope of getting successful wagons on (at least from where I'm coming from).

I mean, you've been pushing that Spyrex wagon since the first page of the game! Can't you take a hint?

Lies. I've been pushing Spy since like page 10... maybe even later then that. Although I wish I had found scum on page one...

Ignoring what wagon? KMD? Or DGB? And I would rather push the lynches of the people I think are scum then let my morals be corrupted and turn into herded cattle. "Oh no, the game is stalling. i guess for the benefit of everyone I should vote someone I don't think is scum! That is sure to win us the game!" boy that sounds like a plan...

[Korlash]

I kinda feel that last portion was directed at me but I got lost at "Vote: dgb" because it's so absurd it blew my mind...

I would feel really bad if I was somehow the sole reason behind Spy's foreclosure of our friendship tent... Is it... even possible? Did I, cause him to leave? *Gasp* Am I the reason, Poker wants to retire? *gasp* Am I the reason, DGB had to leave for a while? *gasp* am I... The reason they let Michael Bay direct Transformers?!?! Noooo... I couldn't possibly be that bad... Say it isn't so?!?!

I can see it now... Uwe Boll gives special thanks to Korlash for talking him into directing the Avengers movie.... *starts twitching* I would have to kill myself immediately to prevent disaster...

Oh right, mafia... Sorry I was distracted... *stares off into distance*

[Korlash]

Yet another lynch I can't get behind... Deja Vu. I would actually be more tempted to lynch Cyber then KMD simply for the interactions between certain key players. *sigh*

Guess I'll just bank on the odds everything I say turns out to be wrong anyway. So that would be what, DGB, KMD, and Starbuck. Cyber takes up possible fourth.

[Korlash]

hey look at that, bob actually flipped scum. Let me check something before I say something stupid... hmm hmmm... There's red throwing a monkey wrench into my idealistic retro memories of past days... But, no offense, I don't care about you here.

Vote: Iam

He votes Bob on a "lolz nice try" after I call him on his constant townie slaying, then ends up spearheading us to another town death.* Now he comes out with two candidates and picks Poker over Red... Just looking at his evidence given makes Red the better candidate yet he votes poker? The only question is are you bussing your buddy again for more cred?

*Disclaimer: I have not actually checked how much effort he had put into the KMD wagon so for all I know this is another Gorrad issue where he wasn't one of the pushers, just one of the sideline people...

Other fun facts; most of the wagons I've started in this game have ultimately led to lynches, all of which have been town. This didn't happen with Cyberbob yesterday, and he turned out to be scum. It also didn't happen with SpyreX the day before. Definitely going to go back and re-examine how that one fell apart.

Ha ha ha... You outright admit you voted Bob to make up for your constant townie killing. I hate when I'm right, it happens so rarely I have no idea how to act... I'll just eat a cookie...

and did you just admit Spy is scum?Before i jump to conclusions and start basking in the knowledge both of you are scum, did you mean when you started a wagon on spy or when spy started a wagon on Bob? I did a quick looksie through the vote counts and didn't see either one so it had to be relatively short and it could take me a while to figure out your meaning on my own.

[Korlash]

Red, You're wrong. The logic, and I'm not saying I agree with it, does not point toward Fonz, but toward Iam. Fonz has the added benefit of not only being an outed power role (One quite frankly I see no reason scum should fear in the slightest) so living casts doubt on him, but a lot of the living players do have suspicions of him, even if they are not strong. Every night he lives increases these suspicions and damages his credibility towards leading the rest of the town.

Iam on the other hand is almost universally accepted as town, short of me and a tangential hypothetical presented by Poker. Not only that, but his credibility towards leading the town seems unwavered even after two straight up failures on his part. If he is town, leaving him alive not only reduces the scum pool by an almost assured one, but allows a favored townie to remain in the game. While his track record doesn't speak highly of him so far, the fact remains it would only take a lucky guess by him to effectively string up a scum. He is by far a bigger threat then some silly little role blocker.

And of course, all of this is stupid logic because any smart scum is looking for the vig. That is literally the one townie who is saving our asses right now and scum's greatest threat. (seeing as how they already run the lynches... Sorry, blatant speculation on my part... Don't let my hatred of Iam and his scum buddies distract you...) Killing Fonz would be stupid and a pointless kill, and killing a townie Iam would be dumb unless the scum actually thought he was the vig, which while possible applies to everyone so it's null.

Not only are you wrong with your logic but it's faulty due to the presence of the proverbial vig.

Now... can we please get to hanging Iam?

*Disclaimer: This argument has taken liberties in assuming both a townie Fonz and a townie Iam simply to make a point. That belief is not shared by Korlash or Korlash affiliates and is a registered trademark of Stupid Ideas for Stupid People, a "learning" company based mostly out of Ted's basement... Is that the type of company you want to agree with? I don't think so...

[Korlash]

Like i said they aren't necessarily 'strong', but I know there are a number of people here who can honestly say "I have a moderate suspicion of Antihero's slot". No one has been highly public of him because it has been impossible to even start a wagon, much less talk about lynching him. I don't think a lot of us here are actually into wasting their own time. (I know I know... shut up...)

As for the KMD wagon, my short term memory is nil it seems and I find myself lacking the time (or interest I guess) into actually looking it up. Could you give a brief explanation of how he was 'the primary reason'? If this is true this would be the third lynch in a row that he has arguably been the biggest driving force behind.

[Korlash]

The increased votes had nothing to do with Iam's post... Nothing at all. And Iam didn't even do anything. with both Chev and Inhim it was "bam" case + research = scum. With KMD it was "bingo + small meta = scum" not even close. Your vote and Nacho's were unreliant on Iam, in fact you seemed against joining him, saying you didn't want to abandon the Cyber wagon... yet you seemed rather quick to do so...

Given the first three votes I would say you were the most primary among them hands down. Nacho would follow a close second and Iam wouldn't even register short of the first vote and minor suggestive evidence.

And considering both Inhim and KMD flipped town I would think after removing yourself from the equation Iam would stand out as the most possible scum influence. instead we find another one of these "woe is me" crap you've been pulling for a while now...

Unvote:, Vote: Red

god that's hard to do... But too little of what you say is adding up, and this constant downtrodden and beaten attitude you keep throwing out screams of you trying to slink into the back of things...

[Korlash]

That's the point. "I'm not without blame" "My scum reads haven't panned out" "I have bared my naked soul" seriously that one was a little creepy.

You seem to be quick to affirm your wrongness whenever possible. A trait of the guilty. It's a deflection, I freely admit being bad so I can't be.

If you want an example, just look at your last three posts. Everyone of them included a jab at yourself, claiming you need to take responsibility or are to blame. Why do you constantly feel the need to tell us this?

And me and Poker have been friends for as long as I can remember and even he hasn't been spared this game... it's nothing personal, friend.

[Korlash]

No, Korlash, that's honesty. I've been straight up for the whole game. I am taking some blame because I am due some blame. That's what's fair. It's not a ploy to get you to see me as town. I'm trying to earn town points in spite of my shortcomings as a scumhunter.

Really? I think trying to get me to believe it's "honesty" would be a form of trying to earn townie points. If you truly are taking some blame, why do you scoff at me for giving it? Shouldn't the response be "yeah I both deserve and expected that."?

Does that do anything for you at all? Fonz + username or Fonz + PF?

I refuted your entire case on Fonz based on the vig and you agreed with me yet you still push him like things you said still hold water... So no. At the start of the day I would have loved to say Iam + Fonz but given Your recent activities I'm more prone to saying Iam + Red.

Which part of this is better evidence against Red than against Poker?

Your post 2003 seemed to suggest Poker was doing that in an attempt to further the wagon, not hinder it. So yeah, your clarification does change things. That being said I like where my vote is right now so I guess I still think Red is the better choice.

I don't really have a point here, because I'm pretty sure you're right about the vig being their priority, hence The Fonz's continued survival. Mostly I just want more people to read that game, because it's amazing.

I won't deny a roleblocker has the potential to be good and a hinderance to the scum, but for every game you show me where a roleblocker won the day I'm sure if I cared enough I could find one where it was useless. Or even worse, where it hurt the town. But it's cool, we can have different opinions on this as I don't see it being really relevant. Moving on.

Here is the pertinent point: If you believe PokerFace is town, then you believe that on Day One a townie received votes from eight different players, and was constantly the lead wagon of the day, for a full ten pages (covering four days of real time) before a single member of the scum team became interested in joining it.

Lets see... day one of a 21 player game where a townie who doesn't make it to lynch gets wagoned up to 8 without a scum... You know, it isn't actually that hard to believe.

I'll have to leave the rest for later, after work perhaps. Excelsior!! *jumps away*

[Korlash]

Well that settles that. Poker is town for his 2026. (For reference he may still be scum along with Iam, but as that means Iam would still need to die we can shelve poker for today.) High five there buddy for same team. yeah, let's make this a repeat of Clerks.

Lets see, where was I... Right. Chev wagon.

Sera's vote doesn't make it a wagon, even Farside's was simply a "random" so there's really no call for scum to wagon onto it without risking some backlash for it. Interesting to note the start of a Cyber wagon along side it. next four happen within 2 hours. So it jumps from a non wagon to a wagon in 2 freaking hours. Kat, now Poker, didn't even post in that time. The only person of importance to get a post in during this build up is runner. Who's contribution is "what's going on guys?!?!" Katsu joins like an hour later with a 'works for me'. The wagon then starts to lose people, so while it may have still be in the lead it was clearly on a downward slope. Nocase, then farside. Xal replaces in and joins it, cyber eventually settles.

So what we're looking at here is that the wagon got up to it's highest point in a matter of 3 hours. 3 flipping hours. You cannot base anything on certain alignments jumping on or staying off when you can't even say a fraction of the people had the time to post, let alone vote. In addition, we have evidence of both known scum staying away from the wagon and the fact that at least one unknown scum also stayed away from it, so from a scientific standpoint it's easier to say scum would be more prone to avoiding the wagon then joining it simply because we already have proof of it happening. but its irrelevant because of the fact you had five votes in a matter of 3 hours, 4 of which are already proven town.

There is nothing that suggests alignment is a factor in Katsu's vote, not to call it town or scum. You put too much weight into the time the wagon lasted and not enough into the time it took to build. you also failed to note the decline in it's numbers following Kat's vote. your point is flawed and just further evidence of your scummy intent. K thanks bai.

Fonz following you even with his personal stance on Kat, your history of pushing faulty cases against town, and the obvious oversights of this new one isn't all that surprising to me. Although it does make me regret ever moving my vote.

Unvote:, Vote: Iam

It's not over Red. You've still got some 'splaining to do... er, stuff to answer for...

[Korlash]

Korlash, I told you not to make me choose between username and PF. I have solid townreads on both of them. I mean, I realize that one of them is probably scum, but I don't want to make the decision.

Then let me make it for you... You will vote Iam *waves hand* these are not the droids you are looking for *waves hand* Give me money *waves hand*

username is saying that if PF is not scum, then all of the scum would have had to have been playing incredibly low key given the vote counts on D1. Korlash is saying that it's a bogus argument because Kat's vote had little to no thought put into it. He seems to be voting username largely because Fonz has a meta of pushing cases against townies.

That isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that the wagon in question happened in too short a time to put scope into who was on it. It happened in a time span of three hours, how incredibly low key do they have to be playing to not join a wagon in such a short amount of time? Barely a fraction of the players even posted so you can't make any arguments about whether scum were or were not avoiding it intentionally. it's literally like a coin flip. There is no statistical data that says if you flip 5 coins in a row one of them has to be tails. You can't pull any alignment suggested out of those 5 votes without ultimately guessing, and Iam has made too many BS arguments this game with far too few results to be allowed to get away with a guess right now.

I'm going to tell you right now, Korlash, barring anything else, PF would probably get my vote here. Both players have been effective in earning townreads from me, but username has done a better job, despite his results. As a townie, I feel like I got a lot of the same reads he has throughout the game (more or less). The real thorn in username's side is the Cyberbob switch, but what almost washes that out is the fact that PF didn't fair much better. Let's face it, neither player pursued the Cyberbob wagon very hard yesterday, but username did so stronger than PF did. PF claims that he had a townread on Cyberbob, which is reasonable and fair, but if I'm going to get on username for moving the wagon away from Cyberbob, then I should hold PF at least somewhat accountable for not really pursuing it at all (notwithstanding his question in post 1901).

Well taking the fact that poker is obv town out of the argument, pushing it when you're backed into a corner wins out over not pushing it to me. but all that aside you're the worst Cyber offender of them all so I don't think you can give an unbiased view of that account personally. Just saying.

This might be an acceptable alternative to PF/username. Any thoughts?

What happened to your Fonz kick? And no, I don't see Starbuck getting the axe today.

Quick question, why is Fate off the table?

[Korlash]

Cool, lets get Iam started. I'll hook up the electrodes and one of you guys turn on the buzz saw...

[Korlash]

So your reasoning is that Iam is a huge threat to scum, should've been killed, and since he didn't ergo he is scum? Yet in the SAME POST you go "well I'm basically universally accepted as town as well"??

NO BULLSHIT.

You should read my post before you call bullshit on me because I'll cram your idiocy down your throat and make you regret picking the fight. I don't like people misquoting me in anyway shape or form.

My 2014 starts off with me stating I didn't agree with the logic and simply went on to show why Red was wrong. It then ends with me calling the logic wrong and faulty. I never used it as real evidence against Iam and it hardly reflects my case on him in the slightest.

If you had a geniune scumread on me, and thought your read on me was as good as you've been SPOUTING FOR 70 FUCKING PAGES, then wouldn't YOU be a big threat to scum? Shouldn't YOU have died?

It's a rare moment I meet someone stupider then me. I'll give you a chance to acknowledge your fuck-up and move on. For the sake of argument though, I don't have the 'pull' that Iam does, so no. In the event I was using this logic I wouldn't be as big a threat as Iam. Plus I've 'been spouting for 70 pages' apparently on you alone, with no takers. So even in the event you are the scum I hardly think you would find me a threat.

Not only have you choose to misrep my stance on already false logic, but you present it with an argument of more false logic. That's hard to do, good job mate. that is moderately impressive.

[Korlash]

*shrugs* For what it's worth I apologize for my attitude... Been a rough couple of days... >.>

[Korlash]

The Chevre mislynch wagon on D1, at its peak, was: Seraphim, inHimshallibe, Jerbs, Katsuki, Xalxe, Cyberbob, werewolf555, DGB, farside. That's a lot of green for a mislynch. I'm not saying this is obvious or anything, but you've got to admit that at least, in this context, Kat doesn't look great.

It wasn't a mislynch, the wagon eventually fell apart. And yes, in this misconstrued context, Kat doesn't look great. I'll give you that. In this, flip a coin and maybe he's scum, yeah. I'll give him a good 50% chance of flipping scum.

Five people voted for Cheve at nearly the exact same time, so regardless of any other factors you cannot argue that one has to be scum.

Also, Korlash, I was trying to remember who else accused me of being too "woe is me" like you just did a little while ago. It was Cyberbob. Interesting.

What can I say, he was a smart man. Also, how many people have to point it out before you stop? Just saying...

And why is Starbuck not getting the axe? What makes her so special despite not having done anything in the past two days?

Because she isn't as obvious scum as Iam nor has as many people focused on her as Poker. Unless the massclaim provides something, one of those two will be lynched. (as it stands now, anything can happen I suppose)

Because he's town. I know I've teased you a few times, but, in the end, I feel like I can read SpyreX fairly well. This was SpyreX town.

Well I like to think the same about Poker. so if I believe you, that's you and fate gone, and if you believe me, me and poker, I think that makes Iam a hell of a lot better candidate no?

You're acting like I omitted important details for some nefarious purpose, but actually, those details are completely irrelevant to the point. Yes, the Chevre wagon jumped from two votes to six in a matter of hours, and most of the players weren't online in this time to join it. That explains the known fact that the first five votes on this town wagon were town. It does not explain why no scum joined the wagon in the subsequent FOUR DAYS that it continued to linger as the largest wagon in the game.

Well it's a fucking fact isn't it. Regardless of Pokers role no scum joined it in those days, yes? you can't deny it, I can't deny it, no one here can deny that. And you're saying that these scum avoided the wagon simply because it already had a scum on it? Bullshit. When has the presence of one scum on a day one wagon in a 21 player game ever been the sole reason another scum goes "maybe I shouldn't join this... this wagon that 5 townies are on, simply because my brother in arms has his presence on it...)

I'm not trying to make up an argument for why scum stayed off it, I don't freaking have any clue. But you can't sit there and say it's "because poker is scum" that's bullshit.

Unless, of course, there WAS already one scum on the wagon, and they didn't want to be seen all piling on at once, because scum teams tend to have an aversion to all doing the same thing at once. This is also why the idea that because known scum CKD spoke out against the wagon, we should assume that every other scum was also against the wagon is frankly laughable. This also explains why Cyberbob did deign to join the wagon, but only after Xalxe created a buffer zone between his vote and Katsuki's.

the only frankly laughable thing here is that people are actually still listening to your crap. The idea that scum didn't want to join it because they saw a high number of townies voting for a townie and wanted to be the people on the other side, arguing against the wagon is just as possible. CKD didn't join the wagon even before Kat did, so right there is proof that there are scum who didn't join the wagon even before another scum got on it.

We can bicker about this all day if you want, but we'll get nowhere. Well I will, you still have Fonz following you like a little puppy and even have Red awed by your silver tongue. It's sad really...

Yeah, fine. I am a two-shot cop. I used my first on DGB on N1, and got an innocent result, obviously. I used my second on Korlash on N3, and got another innocent. Oddly enough, me discovering that Korlash is not scum seemed to coincide directly with him suddenly deciding that I am the scummiest scum ever to have scummed. I was kind of surprised that no one questioned the fact that Korlash suddenly disappeared from my scumlist when he started attacking me, but yeah.

The result of a Cop investigation will be either "Dangerous", "Not Dangerous", or "No Result".

can we lynch him now?

[Korlash]

Yup, that's exactly what it means.

[Korlash]

No one even cares Iam committed cop fake claim fuck up 101... figures.

Does anyone have anything better on starbuck then "not posting anything"?

[Korlash]

I'm a townie with no role relevant information, if that's not good enough we'll call it French vanilla... wait no, that's too French. Can I be chocolate? Wait, what's the one I like... with all the colors... rainbow sherbet! Yes, I'm a Rainbow Sherbet Townie! With Jimmies on top... in a cake cone, no waffle... yeah... That's the stuff.

@Red: You would also be a solid shot, and unlike Starbuck would actually have evidence to suggest you being scum. (That I have seen at least) I don't like how you want to essentially do a random lynch in hopes the mafia does something we can catch them on tomorrow... I also don't see how the scum are in an awkward position if she flips town but it's probably best not to talk about it. I would like to see some actual reason to lynch her aside from "We do it and cross our fingers... what can go wrong?"

[Korlash]

that is just the type of Cog I expect your well oiled machine mind to produce there Poker. I do have a question, how would who he blocked last night actually out scum? The only non vanilla claim didn't have a target last night, so I see no possible way it could out scum. (referring to your comment in 2064)

As for the 2065, I actually think revealing it would be more beneficial. However, this is just based on some quick calculations by me so I'm willing to listen to the others opinions on it.

[Korlash]

While I have to agree given what I know about the setup so far I would assume the town has a pure investigation role, I don't think it's due to the bomb. From a setup perspective the bomb is a one time us deal that has prerequisites in place which could leave it essentially useless. The extra kill would offset to the vig and SK, so I don't feel any additional powers would have to be added for that alone.

I guess this is all pointless argument on my part though over something irrelevant and beyond my knowledge... I'm finding it hard to swallow a reason, however singular it may be, that Iam may be telling the truth. I would prefer to remain ignorant...

[Korlash]

Actually, we probably don't need Fonz to claim. If scum truly aren't going after Fonz (because he's on their team ), then this will put the scum in even more of a bad situation. A Starbuck lynch is just looking better and better, guys. We rid ourselves of that deadweight, force the scum to make a move between Fonz and the Vig once more, and we should be in good position. What could go wrong?

I can think of a number of things... I do agree with your suspicion of Runner though. He was one of the few to stand out in my initial re-read way back when, overshadowed by Spy of course. Had my own issues with Weatherman at one point too. But I think you're a little too hard on Starbuck though. I think a replacement who comes into a 70+ page game like this one would more then often end up the way she has, regardless of the role given. But then I've never seem lurking as particularly scummy so I doubt I'm the best person to weigh in on this one.

Even with the newly added evidence, your push on Starbuck still seems like one of those "lets cross our fingers here guys" which negates everything you've presented and make me feel bad about the lynch.

[Korlash]

Well I looked over the first post and didn't see an investigation immune role. There is a commuter possibility which if given to scum would make them immune, but that would result in a "no result" investigation. There is also a jailkeeper with the selfish modifier possibility, but once again that would lead to a 'no result' investigation. As there is no evidence to suggest a framer could work in reverse I see no way for scum to appear town to a cop.

While I wouldn't say my intent recently was in fact to defend you, simply to point out yet another one of Iam's flawed attacks, I would have no qualms doing so due to your post 2026 which highly suggests you as town to me.

But

I can't overlook I'm a compulsive misinterpreter of things, so I

could

be wrong. Still, I don't base my opinions or actions on the highly likely scenario I am wrong... that would just be stupid.

[Korlash]

I'm assuming you figured out him being weak did in fact give him that investigative ability, so I won't bother to point it out myself.

You are only scum if iam is scum too

yup. And so are you. So until he flips the vicious, disgusting, tramp of a scum he is.. wait wait, sorry... old habits... *breaths deep* Ok, if he does flip scum then all cards are off the table, until then buddies for life! la la la!

I don't think so. She saw the page count coming in. If she didn't want to bother with the length of the game, then she didn't have to replace in. Simple. Replacements are lovely if they actually want to replace. If she was going to be too busy to play the game, fine, but just don't join us then. The ball is totally in her court. If she doesn't want to face my calls for an "easy lynch", then all she has to do is give us a little effort (the very thing she implicitly told the Mod she'd do when she agreed to join the game).

Then you negate your own argument... She saw it before she replaced in and therefore knew whether she wanted to play or not. So her role shouldn't be an influence on that. And even if it is, do you honestly think a person getting the scum role would want to play the game less then a person getting a VT role? Maybe it's just me talking here, but getting a scum role is fun, reading the thread to find ways to screw people over and murder people for science sounds appealing to me. Reading 80 pages just to be a VT sounds like a boring, challenging, eye gouging existance befitting only the worst of the worst in the twelfth circle of hell.

Your unwillingness to bend here really doesn't suit you, Korlash. I mean, I juxtapose Fate and Starbuck coming into this game (and they came roughly the same time)... it's night and day, my man. I'm not saying Starbuck would necessarily be so lackadaisical as scum, but I'm coupling this with other behavior in the game. Overall I do not like that role slot. I don't care if it was the Queen Elizabeth playing with us; I'd still be satisfied with that slot being lynched as of right now.

what do you mean doesn't suit me? Are you calling me fat? Jerk... >.>

And I don't think that's a very good comparison. Fate would be the second side to the terrible coin you're flipping here. Starbuck hasn't read the thread but is hardly trying to convince us she has, whereas Fate seems to read a bit then come out full scale with a theory or something based on that tiny bit. I mean one could argue both not reading the thread while not posting and not reading the thread while posting a storm are both equally damaging to the town.

I do understand your feelings on the slot, hell just basing it on Runner might even have me halfway agreeing with you, but to compare both fate and Starbuck and not come to the conclusion that Fate is worse would be false.

Fonz is def still town roleblocker. 2-3 of Red, Fate, Star is scum and I can figure out which is most likly tonight

See the same argument that would suggest Iam is town to me also suggests fonz is scum. Without a scum RBer the mafia wouldn't have a way to deal with Xtoxm on their own, aside from the kill. actually that might cover it... Still gives the possibility for a Hider/Doctor collaboration essentially giving the town an unkillable cop until he either targets scum or the doc dies. man, think of the possibilities that would have given us...

Sorry, just rambling to myself here. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that the game does appear to be heading that way. between the three of them though I still prefer Red over the other two, followed by Fate. Red has the obvious connection to Cyber and Fate... well I haven't been able to drop all my suspicions of Spy you know. Star does have Runner and Weatherman as predecessors, but I still feel she would be the bigger gamble.

[Korlash]

Oh hey a third list... ha even I missed that one. given what it says for the weak modifier and the GF role a hider should still die if they target a GF. The GF does nothing to change its own win condition, merely results of investigations, weak modifyer, while works as an investigation tool, does not give results and therefore shouldn't be effected.

[Korlash]

Hider was a modifier on Xtoxm's flip, Iam targeted DGB night 1, and targeted me night 3, Constantinople is now known as Istanbul, and, hate to break it to you, the hokey-pokey has been scientifically proven to be less then and not equal to what it's all about.

Just a few things I thought you ought to know...

[Korlash]

I would be more willing to think it was a coincidence if he hadn't brushed me off when I first mentioned it. Though I never thought that waiting to investigate was odd... Hmmm... thinking about it I see your point there...

Then again I love me some Iam attention. More is better please!

[Korlash]

I don't think any of this changes anything. We need to put the burden on the scum to make sense of this. The worst case scenario here is lynching username, who flips Cop, and having Korlash be shot overnight. That would be the worst thing we could do. Hell, it'd be better to lynch Korlash if only because username could still be scum if Korlash flips town. I don't want to do either of these things though. Everyone knows what I want to do. I'm growing increasingly frustrated over the fact that everyone except me and Fate are so hesitant to act. It tells me that my Fatetown read is right on the money and it also tells me that the remaining scum are lying in wait, praying that the Starbuck wagon will somehow be derailed.

I don't get how lynching me would be better... I think you may be focusing too hard on potential outcome to see things clearly. As for the starbuck thing, what are the other three of us doing then? If Star and her partner (as I'm assuming your calculations are based on) are in fact lying in wait, then what is the reason the other three townies aren't 'acting'? I hardly think we're lying in wait as well.

[Korlash]

I didn't just feel like rambling about Korlash for no reason.

Lies and you know it... >.>

Unvote:

If only for the simply fact I don't think Iam is actually this retarded. although, I think the lack of practice in fakeclaiming may be a factor in why you suck at it. Just saying..

I'll have more when I've ruminated on the moment for a bit...

[Korlash]

I am as town as Elton John is gay.

Whoa, whoa... Maybe you should warn people before you let slip such hard hitting truths... It could turn some people's lives upside down you know.

Now if this is your way of saying you want to get together with another town member and appear on the cover of people magazine... maybe buy me drinks first and then we'll talk.

[Korlash]

Ding ding ding scumtell.

Ha ha, I wish I could claim to 'just be that good' but sadly it's not true... My alternatives didn't seem to fair any better then the actual lynches... Oh well. Are you actually attempting to throw my name into the ring for today or are you just pointing this out for S&Gs? You'll have a small bit of explaining to do for your 2125 I think if you are. Until then though I'll just hide behind this conveniently well placed chest high wall.

ITS RIGHT IN THE FUCKIN SIG KORLASH

Bitch be trippin'! Attempting to use my love afair of all things Liam Neeson [even things he didn't himself say but hey, good is good] against me! What's next, gunna cram come Pacino down my throat? Maybe Some Eddie Izzard? For shame Fate, for shame. Blatant scum tactic!

Vote: Fate

*mumbles semi-hurtful things about stuff that may or may not be related to the vote*

For realsies though: I think we all knew this was coming at some point. With Poker being town, a regretful and full of spite acceptance of Iam and Fonz, and nothing really presented for Star that I can get behind I'm left with Fate and Red. Red says Fate is town, I don't trust Red, I think spy was scum, badda bing, badda boom... Big badda boom...

[Korlash]

"you were suspicious of Korlash before you investigated him, this proves that you are scum"

VOTE: Fate

He's really making some insane stretches here.

regardless of my feelings on you, investigating me night 3 due to Xtoxm's death and the implications it put on me makes sense. I don't get where he's going with this bit.

Damnit, Korlash. You were all up in PF's grill earlier this game. Then he makes one post about his reads and all of a sudden he's God's gift to townies?

PF has always been God's gift to townies...

Getting game specific though, yes. I had a brief... regrettable spell where I doubted his pokery goodness. But I saw the light and changed my sinful ways. Should I not change my opinion based on game progression? That seems counterproductive.

[Korlash]

That leaves Poker, Fate, and Starbuck. Star's hard to read because Runner read scummy to me, Weatherman town, and now Starbuck's just retreating into her little fortress of massive omgus. Fate, I just find it nigh on impossible to separate my thoughts on his alignment from my utter hatred of his playstyle, but if I had to bet my life on one or other, I'd say this is town Fate.

Since you're betting your life on it, metaphorically speaking, why is this town Fate?

RC, I'm not being Macro because I have a hard time getting purchase on anything this game. Broadly, I think you're town, because the way you scumhunted and yes, attacked Antihero early on looked like something town would do, and though dead scum attacking you could be a bus, it's more likely not to be.

What about his switch off of bob and onto KMD yesterday?

[Korlash]

@Korlash: You're right

That's going to haunt you for a while... Somewhere out there a room full of people are shaking their heads in disappointment.

I still haven't crosschecked your ISO for those days, but YEAH that's about what I'm saying. Aka the D4 for scumreasons you drop Korlash as a "suspect" and buddy up to him, then when reviewing you play for a fakeclaim you see Korlash as someone you can pass off as an innocent.

And he was hiding on a grassy knoll phoning area 51 about the fake moon landing! But shhh... it's suppose to be a secret.

[Korlash]

She should not be rewarded for this behavior though, I know that much.

I don't actually think lynching someone else qualifies as rewarding Star...

1) Who do I think is least likely to be the Vig?

*clap* great argument man... If not being the vig makes a person scum then I'm afraid for us... That seems to be a lot of scum...

2) Who has had the least impact on this game overall?

what? The most replaced slot has had the least impact on the game? No wai... That's not true... That's impossible!!!!

Total amount of lynch wagons Starbuck's slot was on: 0 of 4

Didn't want to put me in that list eh? Afraid she wouldn't stand out as much?

I wanted to strongly emphasize that I was completely doing a 180 on Cyber mostly because of DGB's scumhunting.

that only makes it worse to me.

Starbuck claims her not being a factor in this game is a positive for her

Will you actually be able to, at some point, provide a quote to back this one up?

[Korlash]

I made a post of all the lynch wagons that I guess RC promptly ignored.

You put together a scrap book of the mod's work. I suppose that would have been impressive as like a third grade literary project but I don't see why any of us wouldn't ignore it in this game.

Holy.

Fuck.

One.

MORE>

TOWN

VOTE

That's right, you guys need two of us to vote with you... Hold my brothers! Hold....

[Korlash]

What do you mean? I've been on this point for a while. It's a serious consideration in our lynch process. Are you prepared to rule Fate out as the Vig? Ask yourself that, because I'm prepared to rule Starbuck out as the Vig.

Look, Poker isn't right all the time, only most of the time... ok almost all the time, but in this specific circumstance he is also right as per usual. Stop talking about the Vig.

Quit coddling her. She's a big girl. This is the second or third time you've been willing to make excuses for her. Stop it.

Pointing out your idiocy isn't coddling her. Tell you what, you stop making stupid statements against her and I'll stop pointing them out. Deal?

Why would I? You're not going to be lynched today if I have anything to say about it.

And yet me doing the same thing you are saying makes Star look bad doesn't factor to you?

Why? You don't work off of your townreads in games?

I don't vote someone and then try to put all the blame and reason onto someone else, no. By trying to obviously point out your vote was based on someone else's work and reasons you opt out of any responsibility of that vote.

Well, I mean, I didn't want to have to do another full on case, but since it seems like I'm the only one around here with the balls to take a leadership role in this game, I might just be forced into that position.

He is trying to usurp power! Quick lads, mutiny! MUTINY!

Secondly, in DGB's last scumputer report, you were ranked third behind Cyberbob and username. Cyber flipped scum. username is not going to be lynched today. That means you're up to bat. I'm more than willing to put a heaping amount of stock in these results given DGB's town flip and Cyber's scum flip.

By your own acceptance she must have been wrong about Iam. That doesn't bode well for her results. Sounds like you are just laying blame on DGB yet again. For someone who wants to be the leader you sure don't do a lot of your own playing.

Thirdly, I don't agree with username/Fonz/Korlash in the sense that you should be given any town points for your wanting to stop Fonz from claiming his results prematurely. This wasn't some sort of radical conclusion. I mean, it's debatable really. Both claiming and not claiming will help us, so it's not like you're bringing anything special to the table here.

So stuff you think should be taken into consideration must be done and stuff we think should be taken into consideration is irrelevant?

Fourthly, we had the Chevre mislynch wagon on D1. There was a lot of town players on that wagon, and your slot is the only unrevealed name on there. I absolutely hated that Kat vote when she made it, and I still hate it two months after the fact (or however long it's been, I don't feel like looking).

I don't like calling it a mislynch wagon because she wasn't lynched... Can't we just call it a town wagon? So much less confusing.

What are you going to do if Fate flips town, hm? Have you considered that contingency? Because I have. I'll tell you one thing for sure, I'd much prefer, all things being equal, having Fatetown tomorrow than I would having Starbucktown. You can take that to the bank.

We could compromise. We could have both and just be down a RCscum... I'm cool with that, are you cool with that? Jeffs cool with that...

[Korlash]

Starbuck claims her not being a factor in this game is a positive for her

Will you actually be able to, at some point, provide a quote to back this one up?

I know I really haven't brought anything to the table. It's been awhile since I've replaced in to a game longer than 20-30 pages.

... Failure...

How is this her making it a positive? This has no positive or negative connotation assigned to it. It's neutral, down right downtrodden, borderline moot. she admits she hasn't been a factor but in no way suggests it's a positive for her. Blatant misrepresentation on your part.

[Korlash]

I like... I like me. My wife likes me. My customers like me. 'Cause I'm the real article buddy. What you see is what you get. I could be a cold-hearted cynic like you... but I don't like to hurt people's feelings.

I too like an RC lynch above Fate, slightly that is. But sadly I don't see that lynch happening without Iam changing his mind.

[Korlash]

Ahh... Well I feel like a failure now... If you guys don't mind I'll be under the bed crying now....

[Korlash]

You should come to Goofbash.

I would but they frown on me leaving the country right now... plus I think the beeping from this ankle accessory would start to annoy people at some point. >.> "Excuse me Korlash, I think your leg is ticking...."

Meh your reads were better than most others Korlash so you should be somewhat glad

That only makes it worse... I should have pushed Spy harder from the start and never should have fallen for that crappy claim.... DGB wouldn't have fell for it... ;_;