Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[nocase]

losers: runner, katsuki, iamausername, werewolf555.

reread runner in iso. he's scummier than i remember and i remember him being scummy.

katsuki is a coin flip except for the last line of iso. 2, which i'm puzzling over. not sure whether or not the sucking-up to dgb (iso. 3) means anything.

leaning town on iamausername for his claim to have been attempting to reaction-test farside (iso. 4). the flip-flopping on xalxe looks town as well.

i get the feeling that werewolf555 could be scum playing a lazy game and hiding behind a veneer of lololol or whatever, but more data would be really nice.

also, i'm getting increasingly suspicious that (some) scum have recognized that unexplained votes/foses are smiled upon or treated as a town tell by a lot of players in this game and have joined the masquerade in order to fit in.

[nocase]

nocase-approved lynches, revised, ordered from best to worst:

runner
gorrad
xalxe
werewolf555
katsuki
seraphim
curiouskarmadog
korlash
kmd4390

[Jerbs]

Gorrad is mostly fluffy fluff like a bunny pillow

Runner is lurrrrrrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg

[nocase]

oh, yeah, i could definitely live with a jerbs lynch too.

[DrippingGoofball]

Jerbs is as town as you are.

[Dutch one]

Jerbs is as town as you are.

explain to me why

[Xalxe]

Jerbs is as town as you are.

explain to me why

This, mostly because I disagree.

[DrippingGoofball]

Recklessness.

[Xalxe]

That's it?

[DrippingGoofball]

Yeah. But it's an important one.

[nocase]

where is he reckless? also, why do you think recklessness as mafia would be out of character for him?

[DrippingGoofball]

where is he reckless? also, why do you think recklessness as mafia would be out of character for him?

He's not afraid to get in trouble and get lynched for it.

[nocase]

i don't think anything he's posted risks getting into trouble.

[DrippingGoofball]

But see... Gorrad has been the opposite of reckless.

He's been tiptoeing around the landmines of his mind for the longest time... and he can't seem to find a exit... we need to extend a helping slipknot to pull him out.

[nocase]

that deflection was beyond awesome.

[Korlash]

Man I wish I had managed this reread before now... Now it's going to seem like I'm against the Gorrad wagon... *sigh* Whatever, I'm still right however the rest of you choose to take it... so onward I trudge!

Two viewings of RED down and i finally finish the read-up! I mean, come on, Brian Cox and Karl Urban in the same movie? Perfection... But I dye grass... purple...

The first person to stand out to me was Spy, so i guess the read up focused on him more then anyone else. But I like the content I was able to amass in my notes on him so I'll stay where i am before attempting a second read-up. So lets get somethings down on paper.

1* I seem to be the only one to recognize his case on gorrad was crap, I actually find myself astonished by how quickly I assumed everyone saying it was good just didn't read it instead of assuming I was wrong. Really people? Come on... he didn't even have a "good" point against Gorrad until his post 459... and he started it in post 63... sad...

2* He has attempted to show gorrad as scum** by linking him to other people. (Often without saying anything real about the other people and just saying 'possible scum pair'.) I'm all for making guesses at a person's alignment and saying if scum he may be buddied to so and so, but until one of them actually flips it's all worthless crap. And you can't say "this is a reason to flip one of them" unless you go into more detail about the person you're linking to.***

3* He has on multiple occasions seemed to be setting things up in advance. The linking of Gorrad to others for instance, the response to who else he thinks is scum (besides Gorrad), his comments on a gorrad flip meaning death for people on the chevre wagon.**** The worst part was in his post 428 when he said he had others that relied on flips and he didn't want to talk about them now. I look at that as saying "Hey if someone, I won't say who, flips something, I won't say what, then I know what we should do! but I won't say it now in case I look like I'm setting stuff up, instead I'll wait and look like I'm making it up after the fact! but of course I said it here so you have to believe me!"*****

4* His skirting of the question who besides gorrad is scummy, saying Xalxe is his number two, yet I can't recall him ever saying anything about Xalxe. (If he did it didn't make my notes.) I don't see how CKD isn't his number two... I'm fairly sure He's mentioned the link with Gorrad more times then he's mentioned Xalxe...

** - Or at least make his case look better/stronger for it.
*** - Not actually saying you ever said this, but mentioning it as a preemptive so you can't use it as a reason for why you did it.
**** - I think that's what he meant. i never fully understood his post 463.
***** - Huge exaggeration on my part. But it's honestly the first reaction I had to his comment.

The only point in Spy's favor is that he doesn't want to go after CKD before Gorrad, but it only helps show how little he has talked about CKD on his own. for someone who has said multiple times "Gorrad-CKD scum pair yuk yuk yuk" I would think he would care enough to say something about CKD...

I'm going to

vote: spyrex

like I said I do feel i was slightly bias on my reread paying more attention to the first person to strike me as 'scummy', but the end result is too good to ignore. I'm all for the 'whatever' wagons, like Chev's and the soon-to-be Gorrad one, but a lot of you have mentioned Spy's stuff as being good, or well explained, or making sense... and it is plain and clear bullshit.

For those who care the next biggest person I compiled notes on was Dutch... I can't give a lot of newb credit to anyone willing to join a big game... If he felt like he needed it he should have stayed in newbie ville, and he is clearly a scummy player. (Regardless if you think he is Obv. town or not, you have to admit he has made far too many scummy comments and posts to continuously ignore.)

i only had one or two things to say on everyone else. RC, Iam, inhim, Xalxe, and Anti-hero are the only ones not to stand out at all. (honestly I thought I was going to end up tunneling on anti-hero...) And I need to iso runner again because i know there is more there. But yeah, there ya go. Enjoy, and of course vote spy... you know you want to!

[Antihero]

Hey DGB

(or anyone willing to listen, really; I just think I'll have the best luck here): Can you please look at werewolf and tell me if I'm crazy or not?

I think he's town, on account of the classic "messing-up-quote-tags" town-tell.

I disagree vehemently, but at least you looked at him, unlike everyone else minus Chevre.

Unvote because my vote isn't going anywhere and Kat is being replaced.

I'd really prefer a Runner lynch to anything on the table right now, but I know I don't have the energy or the capital to commit to a battle against him. I don't see Spyrex as voting Gorrad illegitimately here. He's fluffing his way through the first part of the game. His vote on Cyberbob is kind of lame. Kind of really lame. I don't think he bothers to really sell it, and I don't think he asks Cyberbob any questions or anything like that. This nocase vote is just as lame feeling. Then there's this point about how nocase is following the crowd, and Spyrex rightfully jumps on him for that. Why is he trying to make some boogeyman out of nothing? There's no huge anti-Gorrad sentiment here that I can tell...

...but he may have just started one.

Vote: Gorrad

Oh, so now we're playing that game. Just pretend I don't exist, right?

You don't see why Chevre was such a big wagon? You had her on your OK lynch list earlier. Or did you forget about that?

[Chevre]

farside, here is Dutch one's second post:

Vote: Gorrad.

Sorry I replied a little bit late, I live in a different time-zone and because my computer is broke (he will be replaced in a few days) I couldn't post earlier.

@Gorrad,

I'm new here at this website

but this is already my 5th large game, so I'm not a newbie. And I know what RVS is (usually I'm the only one who uses it and I always have a discussion about it), but you are all using it really quick. I didn't expect that.
And I didn't notice there were more than 3 pages in the thread, I only saw the first one, so what I said about all the votes was a reply to the first page (I can't edit it).

Here is Jerbs' post, which happens only a few hours later:

Heyy....

It's nice to wake up to 5 pages of stuff

If a post restriction means what I think it means, you just wasted a post.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... estriction

To ask a few questions:

What is your time zone? So people don't blame you for lurking when you've actually been sleeping.
Do you believe that people will do stupid things to try and be smart?

@Dutch

Are you scum? If not, why are you lying?

I feel he seems to be taking advantage of Dutch one's newness to the site with this question. To answer your questions, farside22, I fail to realize how one could not see why this is a scummy event. No matter how Dutch one answers the question, it sets him up to be put under greater scrutiny then he would have been. Now yes, I can see how this can inflict a decent amount of pressure and cause slips, but why ask it to he who appears to be the weakest player in the game? I find that Jerbs took advantage of a newer player in this situation, and it isn't legitimate scumhunting.

[Korlash]

That question has had to have been asked like 6 times this game against 6 different people? What makes Dutch so special?

[DrippingGoofball]

I find that Jerbs took advantage of a newer player in this situation, and it isn't legitimate scumhunting.

Nah, it's wholesome early aggression.

[Gorrad]

Nocase's Iso:
0-2: Claims to have a PR, runs with it. I think his PR is not being able to use caps.
3-4: RVS. To those who claim there wasn't an RVS, you're full of it.
5: More PR bull
6: Fluff
7-8: Jumps on the gut-Gorrad wagon.
9. Fluff
10. Admits PR was bull
(Note: To those counting who are saying I had too much fluff, he's has 2/11 posts at this point that actually contribute)
11. "Everyone jump on the gut wagon"
12. Jumps to a gut wagon on Runner, asks for clarification regarding "Dutch, are you scum?" post.
13. Defends against SpyreX
14. Votes Chevre for Indecisiveness (a fair charge)
15. Gut read (again) on Xalxe
16-17. Immediately jumps to Xalxe as soon as Chevre and Farside start to talk about him.
18. Asks why Seraphim went through the trouble of color-coordinating Chevre's WoT, then FoS's CKD (following my calling CKD out on his statement)
19. Explains his vote on Xalxe. Good reasoning. First post of his I like.
20. Fluff
21. Confirms Xalxe-hate.
22. List of people he'd vote for. List is 8 people long, 3 of which he hasn't mentioned in any prior posts.
23. Presses Xalxe lightly.
24. Agrees with DGB that Farside's reaction is weird, but goes on to say that it IS scummy, whereas DGB said it was not from a scum perspective. Also does so two pages after DGB's comment.
25. Confirms his Gorrad-hate is gut based, then cops out on explanation by just citing SpyreX
26. And on that note, as soon as I call him out, he votes me! (on gut + SpyreX's case)
27. Tells chevre to vote me "if you value your life". AKA "Hey, want to not get lynched? Move the wagon to this guy."
28. See 25
29. Votes CKD as he is now "up for grabs". Note that his only reason to suspect at this point that he's stated is back in 18. Again, quick wagoning.
30. Says he has "a number of town reads and no terribly strong scum reads" despite the 8-long list earlier of those he'd lynch.
31. Addresses things not meant at him, Explains the hop off of me as him thinking I had some town cred (as opposed to Oooh, new wagon- Shiny!). Revotes me.
32. Fluff
33. Actualy content, isos Runner, Katsuki, IAAU, and werewolf. Suspicion on all but IIAU.
34. Lynch list is up to 9.
35. Make that 10. (nearly half the town)
36-37. Asks for Clarification from DGB. That's reasonable.
38. fluff

To summarize: The vast majority of Nocase's play has been defensive/gut-read bandwagoning. He's hiding behind short, non-offensive posts while leaving his options WIDE open for who he could vote for later on. His short bits of scumhunting could be easily faked, and he has contributed nothing to this game other than a false start.

[SpyreX]

@Kor:

From the very beginning the 'case' was there. I -really- didn't think it was something that needed to be laid out point by point. And the early posts before I had to get all WORDS pretty clearly show what I was talking about.

And, yes, I AM looking ahead not to make Gorrad scum 'with other people' but to show my thought process when

gorrad flips scum

. Because spearheading a lynch like this if I am right is a death warrant. Which is fine.

And, some of the 'others' I am talking about should be clear to at least a few people (and crystal clear with the 'flips' I'm talking about) but, again, I am not trying to catch ALL the chickens right now just Gorrad related ones.

And, yes, I have spent a lot of energy on this and, frankly, the fact it took a bad wagon all the way to claim for anyone BUT GORRAD HIMSELF to pay attention to it sure doesn't spark that lovin' feelin of doing it again.

And, CKD is cart before the horse to a degree. Lynchable on his own? Sure (60/40). A much, much better lynch after a Gorrad scum flip? Hot damn yes (80/20).

Gorrad for Rope-President 2011'

[nocase]

i shouldn't even dignify this post with a response but i can't help myself.

Nocase's Iso:
0-2: Claims to have a PR, runs with it. I think his PR is not being able to use caps.

reaction test, and wrong.

3-4: RVS. To those who claim there wasn't an RVS, you're full of it.

that vote was not random; chevre and ckd tickled my gut. thanks for the attempt at trivialization, though; i really dig it.

5: More PR bull

more reaction-testing pr bull.

6: Fluff

nope. it references the nuts reactions to my post restriction claim.

7-8: Jumps on the gut-Gorrad wagon.

cyberbob and i both found your post scummy. i was the first to vote but good try.

9. Fluff

nope. post 50 (yours) was loaded with nauseating rhetoric.

10. Admits PR was bull

"admits" characterizes it as reluctant or sheepish. it wasn't and i don't know how you could really think it was. i wasn't going to prolong the test indefinitely.

(Note: To those counting who are saying I had too much fluff, he's has 2/11 posts at this point that actually contribute)
11. "Everyone jump on the gut wagon"

yup. scummy how?

12. Jumps to a gut wagon on Runner, asks for clarification regarding "Dutch, are you scum?" post.

no one was voting runner at the time but thanks for once again falsely stating that my vote was not the first on a given player.

13. Defends against SpyreX

are you trying to make a point?

14. Votes Chevre for Indecisiveness (a fair charge)

aw, thanks for the seal of approval. it means a lot to me.

15. Gut read (again) on Xalxe

again, iioa.

16-17. Immediately jumps to Xalxe as soon as Chevre and Farside start to talk about him.

no, i jumped to xalxe because my read on chevre changed.

18. Asks why Seraphim went through the trouble of color-coordinating Chevre's WoT, then FoS's CKD (following my calling CKD out on his statement)

more iioa. make a goddamn point. there's nothing to indicate that my reestablished suspicion of ckd was strictly bandwagoning on your suspicion of him.

19. Explains his vote on Xalxe. Good reasoning. First post of his I like.

thanks! all i ever wanted was to please you!

20. Fluff

no. pushing to see how he would respond.

21. Confirms Xalxe-hate.

hey, look, another instance of FAILURE TO MAKE A POINT. i wasn't confirming xalxe-hate; i was confirming the uniqueness of xalxe's scummy attributes.

22. List of people he'd vote for. List is 8 people long, 3 of which he hasn't mentioned in any prior posts.

you caught me.

23. Presses Xalxe lightly.

no, actually, this post is an instance of what we english speakers refer to as ASKING A QUESTION HEHEHAHAHA.

24. Agrees with DGB that Farside's reaction is weird, but goes on to say that it IS scummy, whereas DGB said it was not from a scum perspective. Also does so two pages after DGB's comment.

cute. another non-point.

25. Confirms his Gorrad-hate is gut based, then cops out on explanation by just citing SpyreX

i voiced suspicion of you in the nascency of this game. the hunch stuck and i liked spyrex's case. but you're right. i'll never DARE to appreciate another player's theory again.

26. And on that note, as soon as I call him out, he votes me! (on gut + SpyreX's case)

the vote immediately followed chevre's wall. the wagon on chevre and chevre's overwhelming towniness were the direct cause of my vote.

27. Tells chevre to vote me "if you value your life". AKA "Hey, want to not get lynched? Move the wagon to this guy."

yes, that's exactly what i was saying. there's nothing remotely anti-town about urging a fellow townie to vote a player who's actually suspicious in order to stay alive.

28. See 25

see 25.

29. Votes CKD as he is now "up for grabs". Note that his only reason to suspect at this point that he's stated is back in 18. Again, quick wagoning.

my instinctual suspicion of him accumulated over several of his posts, although it did taper off a little later on.

30. Says he has "a number of town reads and no terribly strong scum reads" despite the 8-long list earlier of those he'd lynch.

if i had strong scum reads then my list of ideal lynches would be considerably shorter.

31. Addresses things not meant at him, Explains the hop off of me as him thinking I had some town cred (as opposed to Oooh, new wagon- Shiny!). Revotes me.

you seemed to be directing all three at me, but if you'll look again you'll see i was unsure of whether or not you actually were. i revoted you due to a reread of your iso. and to the fact that your recent contributions were garbage.

32. Fluff

bullshit, gorrad. you failed to rebut my defenses and i called you out on it. jesus christ.

33. Actualy content, isos Runner, Katsuki, IAAU, and werewolf. Suspicion on all but IIAU.

are you trying to insinuate that expressing reasoned suspicion of three players in a large normal is scummy, or are you just posting iioa again?

34. Lynch list is up to 9.

yup.

35. Make that 10. (nearly half the town)

oh, my bad, i don't generate fifteen town reads on day one. i must be scum.

36-37. Asks for Clarification from DGB. That's reasonable.

do i get a sticker?

38. fluff

i really have to wonder whether or not you actually comprehend the words that enter your field of vision. i asked dgb a question about jerbs and in her response she (1) failed to answer and (2) deflected onto another player. i called her out on it. but you're right, of course! how could i not have realized it all along? calling someone out for deflecting is an irrefutable scum tell and i should be lynched for it. WAHOO.

The vast majority of Nocase's play has been defensive

no.

gut-read

yes.

bandwagoning

no.

you're shooting 33%. that's a failing grade in the u.s. school system, you know.

[Dutch one]

I'm playing in another Mafia game (square enix mafia IV), and in that game, Katsuke recently joined as a replacement. She is quite active there, but at the same time she says she is a bit inactive at this Mafia because she is so incredibly busy. If you were really that busy, then you wouldn't join another game as a replacement.

UNVOTE, VOTE: Katsuki

[Katsuki]

Wow. Firstly, you're not even allowed to talk about ongoing games.

Secondly, I had requested replacement in this game due to my inability to catch up in this game. I have been recently scolded for not replacing out of another game due to my inability to post, and my apparent

"harming the health of the game"

. I do not appreciate this coming from you, considering you do not even know the circumstances for my replacing out.

And yet here you are spouting false facts regarding the other game you are referencing. (p.s. said game just started, and I had signed up for replacement and decided to honor it). If by

"quite active"

, you mean making an introductory "hi" post, then perhaps you'd wish for me to stay in this game and lurk my way through the next few weeks.

Except that KK doesn't deserve that type of treatment to his game. You do not know me, and you do not know the reasons for the things I do. I would appreciate that, as such, you do not go spouting your mouth off with fucking fabricated nonsense.

Apologies for this distraction to the game. I had to get this off though.