Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[The Fonz]

Actually, Fate, what little respect I had for you increased when you actually changed your mind on something. Maybe if you didn't go 'TROLOLOL YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT' to everyone you happened to think was scum at a particular time, you'd make life easier for yourself.

And thinking about it, you're right and have allayed some of the second guessing I was doing. There's just no good reason to wait to use investigations.

[Fate]

Well I meant... now that I realize you're likely town and not scum...NOW I realize why you've thought so little of me at the end of hydras (aka I was wrong this whole time instead of me tinking I was right and you just being a jerk trying to discredit my scumread on you).

Looking back to Iam's claim, I am wondering why no one else even mentioned the obvious bullshit of N1, then N3. I mean even KORLASH only mentions the fact that iam said innocent and not "not dangerous" (which is also a good point, if such a result was fresh in his mind he would more likely use the same terms).

I ALSO SEE THIS

I said I tried reading, but I gave the list of the different lynches. Currently, my suspicions fall on Iam and RC for being on every single End of Day lynch.

RC more than Iam.

CLASSIX SCUMZ

[The Fonz]

Meh, the 'innocent' thing on its own could be a coincidence. People habitually say 'guilty' or 'innocent' whatever the actual wording of their result pm. But in combination with two other odd things, I think not.

[Korlash]

I would be more willing to think it was a coincidence if he hadn't brushed me off when I first mentioned it. Though I never thought that waiting to investigate was odd... Hmmm... thinking about it I see your point there...

Then again I love me some Iam attention. More is better please!

[RedCoyote]

Well, the reason I was going to assume why username hadn't claimed earlier was because there was no sense putting a target on DGB or Korlash's back given that none of Korlash, DGB, or even username were particularly popular lynch wagons yesterday. Claiming an innocent on someone is just going to make them more likely to be night killed. I didn't want to say this because I didn't want to "give" username an answer. Moreover, claiming an innocent on DGB yesterday would've just given the scum a greater reason to kill DGB anyways.

I don't think any of this changes anything. We need to put the burden on the scum to make sense of this. The worst case scenario here is lynching username, who flips Cop, and having Korlash be shot overnight. That would be the worst thing we could do. Hell, it'd be better to lynch Korlash if only because username could still be scum if Korlash flips town. I don't want to do either of these things though. Everyone knows what I want to do. I'm growing increasingly frustrated over the fact that everyone except me and Fate are so hesitant to act. It tells me that my Fatetown read is right on the money and it also tells me that the remaining scum are lying in wait, praying that the Starbuck wagon will somehow be derailed.

[Korlash]

I don't think any of this changes anything. We need to put the burden on the scum to make sense of this. The worst case scenario here is lynching username, who flips Cop, and having Korlash be shot overnight. That would be the worst thing we could do. Hell, it'd be better to lynch Korlash if only because username could still be scum if Korlash flips town. I don't want to do either of these things though. Everyone knows what I want to do. I'm growing increasingly frustrated over the fact that everyone except me and Fate are so hesitant to act. It tells me that my Fatetown read is right on the money and it also tells me that the remaining scum are lying in wait, praying that the Starbuck wagon will somehow be derailed.

I don't get how lynching me would be better... I think you may be focusing too hard on potential outcome to see things clearly. As for the starbuck thing, what are the other three of us doing then? If Star and her partner (as I'm assuming your calculations are based on) are in fact lying in wait, then what is the reason the other three townies aren't 'acting'? I hardly think we're lying in wait as well.

[iamausername]

Fuck. Uh... Fuck. I have made bad choices.

I don't even care what his explanation is. Unless its LOLODDNIGHT TWO SHOT COP, he dies. Even in that case he dies too.

What if it's LOL ODDNIGHT COP.

As in the 'two shot' part was bullshit. Because I wanted scum to think I was no longer a threat to them so that I could sneak in another investigation tonight without being killed.

Which is also why I said this when I claimed:

Oddly enough

, me discovering that Korlash is not scum seemed to coincide directly with him suddenly deciding that I am the scummiest scum ever to have scummed. I was kind of surprised that no one questioned the fact that Korlash suddenly disappeared from my scumlist when he started attacking me, but yeah.

I didn't just feel like rambling about Korlash for no reason.

And then when RedCoyote said this:

I don't know what scumlist you're referring to, because I just went a looked back (finding it

odd

that you brought up you ever had a scumread of Korlash)

and then this:

I have an opinion about this, but I want to wait and see what username says.

I said this:

What an

odd

thing to say.

because I thought he was indicating that he'd picked up on my hints.

Just wondering.

---

Yeah, I fucked up. I must profusely apologise if my attempts to be sneaky end up getting me lynched and ultimately losing us the game. I probably should have just claimed truthfully in the first place, but at the time, it simply didn't occur to me that a two-shot cop would probably want to play things slightly differently to an odd night cop up to this point, and therefore that my claim would be at all questionable. I did not expect this to happen.

I DEFINITELY should have told the truth as soon as Fonz started asking me questions that I couldn't answer without making up some bullshit.

I'm sorry.

---

FOR FATE (NOT FOR YOU):

Now, you fucking lunatic.

I'm not spouting any "RED+FATE SCUMBUDDIES 4LYFE" nonsense. I said that was the only reasonable conclusion that could be drawn IF I ASSUME THAT KORLASH, FONZ AND POKERFACE ARE ALL TOWN. That was me thinking through the implications of PokerFace being town, because he'd just done something that made me doubt my scum read. I didn't even vote for either of you, never mind attempt to push a lynch. I am looking at possibilities. Try to take an objective view of things and I'm sure you'll agree that Red/Fate is a shit ton more likely than Red/Star at the very least. Unless you think RedCoyote would derail each and every readily available mislynch today in favour of bussing his buddy, who was completely getting away with doing nothing whatsoever.

Must you go "RRAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHGGGHHHGHGHHG YOU SCUM YOU SCUM YOU SCUM DIE DIE" every time someone even mentions the possibility that you could be scum? It does get tiresome.

I am reading through PokerFace's scum games, because I want to see if he has ever done anything like this self-sabotage before as scum. If I find any evidence that he has, my vote is going right back on him in a flash. If I don't, there's still a good chance that my vote goes back on him. I have a strong town read on RedCoyote right now and I have trouble believing it is wrong.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to vote for Starbuck, because she doesn't have a plausible partner unless I put PokerFace back on the table, in which case he is the better lynch by far. Red, who do you think is Starbuck's partner?

Instead he exploited his towniness to make a bullshit claim that would let him survive a little bit longer.

Fate, think this one through. Why would I need to make this clusterfuck of a claim to 'survive a little bit longer' if I have all this 'towniness' to 'exploit'? Pretty sure I'd have just claimed vanilla and not drawn all this attention to myself, like I have done in every other fuckin' scum game I've ever played.

Seriously, you can check my wiki for my game history, and I'm pretty sure you'll find that I have never claimed anything but vanilla in any of my scum games. I realise that self-meta defence is inherently unreliable, and I don't care. I'm doing it anyway.

---

FOR YOU:

I commend my soul to any god that can find it. Again, sorry. This was a terrible idea and I will never do anything like it again.

[The Fonz]

Hey Iam, WIFOM.

My gut reaction to believe him is pushing against my strong LAL instinct. Hmmm.

[Fate]

ROFL SO NOW ITS GAMBITS AND BUTTERFLIES?

LIKE ANY FUCKIN SCUMTEAM WOULD BE FOOLED BY THAT.

THEY'D KNOW RIGHTAWAY, "MAYBE HE'S AN ODDCOP, WHY ELSE CLAIM?"

BULLSHIT.

PLUS YOU SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON REALCLAIMING AND NK DRAWING ANWAY, THE VIGS A THOUSAND TIMES MORE USEFUL TO TOWN THAT YOU. SPECIALLY IF THERE'S A HYPO GF ALIVE.

BULLSHITBACKPEDALINGSELFMETA

[Korlash]

I didn't just feel like rambling about Korlash for no reason.

Lies and you know it... >.>

Unvote:

If only for the simply fact I don't think Iam is actually this retarded. although, I think the lack of practice in fakeclaiming may be a factor in why you suck at it. Just saying..

I'll have more when I've ruminated on the moment for a bit...

[Fate]

STAY THE COURSE KORLASH WTF

DON'T GIVE ME THIS TOO DUMBFORSCUM BULLSHIT

WE WERE JUST STARTING TO BE FRIENDS

ILL EVEN OUTLINE NONCAPSSTYLE WHY THIS CCLAAIM IS BULLSHIT WHEN I GET HOME

[Kublai Khan]

Day 5 Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 4

"Controversial proposals, once accepted, soon become hallowed."

- Dean Acheson

PokerFace

- 1 - The Fonz

Iamausername

- 1 - Fate

Starbuck

- 1 - RedCoyote

RedCoyote

- 1 - Starbuck

Players not voting:

PokerFace, iamausername, Korlash

Notes/Prods

:
- Activity great!
- Deadline Secret
- PokerFace will be V/LA June 2-6

[RedCoyote]

because I thought he was indicating that he'd picked up on my hints.

Oh, no. I appreciate you thinking that highly of my deductive skills, but that's just my lack of vocabulary talking. It makes more sense now, but I want to address something else...

Yeah, I fucked up. I must profusely apologise if my attempts to be sneaky end up getting me lynched and ultimately losing us the game. I probably should have just claimed truthfully in the first place, but at the time, it simply didn't occur to me that a two-shot cop would probably want to play things slightly differently to an odd night cop up to this point, and therefore that my claim would be at all questionable. I did not expect this to happen.

...the fact that you're beating yourself up too much. I don't know why everyone is having such an issue with this gap between investigations in the first place. Why would scum have wanted to draw extra attention to themselves? Plus, in my opinion, even if you were two-shot, I'd see it as perfectly fine to investigate on D1 and D3. Sure, it's a little more risky, but, like you said, the longer you hold off, the better odds you have at getting a solid result. Maybe I'm naive, but I just don't think it was such a big deal.

In either case, what's done is done. Fate, you're really barking up the wrong tree, bud. username is not scum. I'm telling you, scum would not have put all this pressure on themselves over a claim.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to vote for Starbuck, because she doesn't have a plausible partner unless I put PokerFace back on the table, in which case he is the better lynch by far. Red, who do you think is Starbuck's partner?

You know, now that you bring this up, are you referring to the Weatherman vs Antihero battle back when as evidence that these two would not be partners? Hm, you know, that's actually a good point.

I mean, if Starbuck can't be partners with Fonz, then that really throws a wrench in my thought process. I honestly didn't even consider this until you just asked me now, but Starbuck would probably not make a good Fonz partner. I was so busy thinking up rationale to lynch Starbuck that I completely forgot about her buddy. That would be some heavy bussing if she was. The only thing I can think of, and I wouldn't put it by Ojanen to come up with something like this, is that she wanted Antihero to claim on D2 and make him look more townie just by virtue of the fact that he's a PR. That's a real stretch though, and one I don't think I'm prepared to make the argument for.

Unvote

This really puts me in a bind though.

If I take you, me, and Korlash off the table, that leaves Fate (who is back on the table because I simply have no reasonable alternative any longer; I still don't really think he's scum), Starbuck, Fonz, and PF on.

Now I just said that I cannot see a Starbuck-Fonz partnership. I'm getting rid of that.

Starbuck-PF
Starbuck-Fate
Fate-PF
Fate-Fonz
Fonz-PF

Help me reconcile this list. From where I'm standing, PF looks like the person that needs to go today. I need to spend a little time going back and figuring out which of these connections work based on vote counts and stances.

[PokerFace]

I like to fake claim alot and I've done it as both alignments and gotten away with it sometimes. Claiming as town has always been harder then fake claiming as scum though. I actually didn't see any issue with him no investigating night 2 when 2 shot. The reason I expected to hear for that was he was not sure who to check or he figured him and his targets would live longer and there wouldn't be a problem. Why he didn't claim after checking Korlash though I Figured was same reasons Red figured.

Him switching his claim to odd is actually something I am leaning toward believing. Now why am I doing that? If username was scum why didn't he claim vanilla or 3 shot or 4 shot? He could have easily said he checked no case and then cyberbob on nights 2 and 4. He picked a specific number of 2 so that goes in line with the mentality I would expect from someone running this gambit and not thinking there would be an issue with not investigating back to back.

His pick of DGB and Korlash make sence with when he suspected them. I'm willing to believe he is an odd cop that tried to screw with scum and it didn't work. Also he unvoted me. I don't think he would have even bothered with that as scum. I think he would have tried to ignore it or tried to keep going at me and try to get vengence on me for foiling his scum's ability to get the vig

Something that caught my eye:

I don't think any of this changes anything. We need to put the burden on the scum to make sense of this. The worst case scenario here is lynching username, who flips Cop, and having Korlash be shot overnight. That would be the worst thing we could do.

Hell, it'd be better to lynch Korlash if only because username could still be scum if Korlash flips town.

I don't want to do either of these things though. Everyone knows what I want to do. I'm growing increasingly frustrated over the fact that everyone except me and Fate are so hesitant to act. It tells me that my Fatetown read is right on the money and it also tells me that the remaining scum are lying in wait, praying that the Starbuck wagon will somehow be derailed.

Huh? What? Can you run that underlined part by me that doesn't make sence. Where would that get us and do you suspect Korlash?

something else Fonz is not voting IAM and Korlash unvoted him. Korlash is obv town, if he was scum going after IAM I see no reason he would let up now. Fonz well i already thought he was town but if he were scum I would have expected him to latch onto this and start going at IAM like a rabbid wolf. He brought up some issues with it first so he could have easy went after IAM as scum with no drawbacks.

2 to 3 of red, star, Fate I am still thinking. What made me think Star/weather was town no longer holds water since both CKD and cyber bob who supported dutch lynches are dead and scum. Being against that lynch and attacking me earns no town cred. I can understand Star being discouraged to read all pages of this long game but saying this:

I have no problem with the lynch being on me if that's what the town decides is the best action.

I know I really haven't brought anything to the table. It's been awhile since I've replaced in to a game longer than 20-30 pages.

Is completly defeatist and scummy. If she was town I would not have suspected the go ahead and kill me part. She must have known how long the game was when she agreed to replace. I would expect her as ton to say cut me some slack and keep trying the just kill me know part goes directly against the idea of playing to win as town while it is still able to gain extra sympathy as scum. Town her replacing in would likly not have said it

Vote: Starbuck

Also @IAM. I'll save you some trouble. There is 1 instance of me making a dumb move as scum and costing my scum team the game. Read the black fang game. I was scum, predicted every player's role had the game completly won but I didn't cast the vote that would have won me the game. Why? Greed and indifference! I got gready and wanted to see and explosion. I wanted to trick Ghost writer into using his suicide bomb on empking so they would both die and I would win my best scum. I wanted more out of that game game with an explosion and awesome win but I didn't put in the effort with my greed. I wanted it but didn't do enough and ultimatly backfired. I should have just nked the power role GW a long time ago. Got Phate or I believe it was "grimwall" lynched instead as they both had connections to scum. I purposely went the harder route and paid for it Shit happens. Does that mean I was sabatoging or that I would be greedy like that here? You decide but generally I plan to never be that dumb ever again.

@Khan can you prod starbuck its been 3 days

[iamausername]

THEY'D KNOW RIGHTAWAY, "MAYBE HE'S AN ODDCOP, WHY ELSE CLAIM?"

what.

before it was obviously bullshit, because why wouldn't you claim when you'd run out of shots now you're saying that scum wouldn't be fooled BECAUSE I claimed after 'running out of shots'? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. WHAT.

THE VIGS A THOUSAND TIMES MORE USEFUL TO TOWN THAT YOU. SPECIALLY IF THERE'S A HYPO GF ALIVE.

Is there any reason to assume the existence of a godfather, besides the fact that it gives you another reason to attack me?

Now I just said that I cannot see a Starbuck-Fonz partnership. I'm getting rid of that.

Starbuck-PF
Starbuck-Fate
Fate-PF
Fate-Fonz
Fonz-PF

Help me reconcile this list. From where I'm standing, PF looks like the person that needs to go today. I need to spend a little time going back and figuring out which of these connections work based on vote counts and stances.

Fate+Starbuck team is starting to look a lot like the right answer to me at this point, actually. I was writing it off because of his attacking her yesterday, but looking back, he really didn't put in a lot of effort to lynch her then, and the fact that he never voted her today before the massclaim seems decidedly out of character.

[Starbuck]

Is completly defeatist and scummy. If she was town I would not have suspected the go ahead and kill me part. She must have known how long the game was when she agreed to replace. I would expect her as ton to say cut me some slack and keep trying the just kill me know part goes directly against the idea of playing to win as town while it is still able to gain extra sympathy as scum. Town her replacing in would likly not have said it

You're completely wrong. I had no idea how long this game was.

Kublai Khan and I cross-replaced when Stephoscope and I needed a replacement for the now completed game of Open 290 - Double Day.

I haven't had the concentration to even try to catch up with how long this game is. So yeah, you're going to get a bit of a defeatist attitude out of me because I don't want to make KK have to find another replacement and I feel terrible because I'm not really contributing at all to the town.

[Starbuck]

There is neither a Starbuck-PF scum team or a Starbuck-Fate scumteam because I am not scum. I am as town as Elton John is gay.

[Starbuck]

I still am thinking of one between Iam and RC and it's not because they are attacking me. They were on the bandwagon of every lynchee every single day of this game.

At least one, if not both, are scum.

[Korlash]

I am as town as Elton John is gay.

Whoa, whoa... Maybe you should warn people before you let slip such hard hitting truths... It could turn some people's lives upside down you know.

Now if this is your way of saying you want to get together with another town member and appear on the cover of people magazine... maybe buy me drinks first and then we'll talk.

[The Fonz]

I still am thinking of one between Iam and RC and it's not because they are attacking me. They were on the bandwagon of every lynchee every single day of this game.

At least one, if not both, are scum.

Very noobish kind of argument. How often do two scum behave in the exact same manner all game?

[Starbuck]

It's possible. I'm not saying it's an exact science.

[The Fonz]

It's possible, but I don't think it's likely, and I sure as hell wouldn't use it as a basis for an argument.

[Starbuck]

But it is something to learn from. In this post are all the end of day vote counts.


It's highly unlikely that cyberbob was the only scum on Chevre's Day 2 lynch. The other 3 people that we don't know the faction of are Iam, RC and Pokerface.


Going off of trends the only people left alive that voted for each lynch are these:

Day 1 on Gorrad - Iam, SpyreX/Fate, Antihero/The Fonz, RedCoyote
Day 2 on Chevre - Iam, Poker, RedCoyote
Day 3 on InHim - RedCoyote, Iam, SpyreX/Fate and Pokerface
Day 4 on KMD - Iam, RedCoyote, PokerFace, The Fonz


Korlash hasn't voted for a single lynch all game and unfortunately, neither has my slot.

Although, Ojanen did vote for Cyberbob in Day 3's final vote count along with townie InHim.

Korlash, in turn, voted for town-werewolf, town-Dutch One, PokerFace and Iam.

On all 4 lynches, Iam is either the first vote (Days 1, 2 and 4) or the 2nd (Day 3). Kinda convenient imho.

[The Fonz]

Korlash hasn't voted for a single lynch all game and unfortunately, neither has my slot.

Ding ding ding scumtell.

[Starbuck]

Unfortunately the actions of those before me will be held over my head. That's the way it goes for replacements.

But how about you, Fonz?

You replaced in and you replace someone who lynched a townie and you, yourself, voted to lynch a townie.