Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[quadz08]

^ I like this guy.

Also, VOTE: UnofficialRulerOfEveryone for being so CONCEITED.

[quadz08]

giving the antitown roles to the most antitown player is like giving the Joker a tank. (it isn't though.)

Yes it is.

You give the scummiest player roles that can hurt the town, and he's GOING TO USE THEM TO HURT THE TOWN. Very simple. Yes, it means we can get rid of all of them in one fell swoop, but that's assuming that NONE of the scum got a roleblock, a doctor, a redirector, or anything of that ilk, which I find unlikely.

I do think that getting rid of anti-town roles, including the treestump, is a good idea (obviously); however, I definitely feel it's too risky to attach all the anti-town roles to one player who we find scummy. It might work if we give it to a person who we can agree is NOT mafia, because they wouldn't use it on the town. Of course, that opens up a whole other host of issues. However, I think we should deal with those anti-town roles later; we need to start off with just plain old scumhunting. I can't think of a reason to do anything differently than we would in a normal mafia game, barring some pretty interesting role stuff.

PREVIEW EDIT: I like Magna's idea, with the cycle of confirmation. It seems intelligent, certainly.

[quadz08]

[*]Any Anti-Town Faction existing within this game may not pass a

standard ability

to any of their partners, if any partners exist within the game.

Nonstandard abilities may exist in the game.

I'd be willing to bet that the potato counts as a nonstandard ability.

PREVIEW EDIT: Ninja'd by implosion.

[quadz08]

VOTE: Parama

Scumslip, much?

[quadz08]

I was hoping I would get a legit explanation from Parama, actually.

[quadz08]

I feel like this issue can be relatively easily cleared up.

@Mod: Was the 'hot potato' role clarification sent on your own initiative, or were you asked about it?

Also, I feel like my catch on Parama was pretty legitimate. The way it was worded implied to me that he had asked the mod to specify if he could pass it to his scumbuddies. If the mod did, in fact, clarify it on his own, then it is clearly a null-tell. Otherwise, though, I'm calling it a scumtell.

[quadz08]

If muh flips scum, parama is obvitown imo, I reckon theres about a 99% chance of that right now.

Uhhhhhh.... why? Muh was an easy target for the potato, regardless of Parama's alignment.

[quadz08]

Ummm... to make himself look town? To get rid of a scumteam member he might think could do more harm than good to the scum? There's plenty of reasons, Ant. Not difficult.

[quadz08]

You're right, that is simple. That doesn't make it correct. And as I said, if the mod can confirm that he clarified the hot potato role on his own, without questioning from you, I will drop this case. Otherwise, you're the scummiest so far, and my vote will stay.

1. If I was scum, why would I publicly claim that I have a bomb? Couldn't I just keep it silent and quietly pass it to a lurker?
2. If I was scum, why wouldn't I pass the bomb ASAP? I could've passed it in the pre-game, for crying out loud. But I held it until I saw someone ping my scumdar.

1. You have much more to gain by advertising the fact that you have the bomb:
(a) You look more town by revealing that information.
(b) Bombing a lurker / anti-town player yourself also gives more town points.
(c) The sudden death of a lurker would lead to questions of why it happened, and we have no way of knowing what roles could potentially track the bomb. This is somewhat of a stretch, yes, but I know it would cross my mind, and play into my decision.

2. You wouldn't pass the bomb ASAP so you could find a player who you thought the bomb would be successful on. It wouldn't help you to just give up a potential weapon.

I'm also not liking diddin right now. He voted twice in his first two posts, and the second vote was very, very weak. ("unvoting with a revote, ick." was his only explanation.) Consider this an

FoS

.

PREVIEW EDIT: Basically, I agree with what EC said about diddin.

[quadz08]

Thank you, Mod.

UNVOTE:

[quadz08]

With muh flipping town

VOTE: Parama

I'm going to believe muh on that one

Ummmmm... why? What does his alignment have to do with how accurate his (highly-OMGUSy) read was?

And, diddin, I completely do NOT understand your insistence that WrathChild is scummy. TBH, I find it ridiculous. He unvoted from a RV, big whoop. Why are you making such a big deal out of unvoting without a revote, anyway?

[quadz08]

And, diddin, I completely do NOT understand your insistence that WrathChild is scummy. TBH, I find it ridiculous. He unvoted from a RV, big whoop. Why are you making such a big deal out of unvoting without a revote, anyway?

Yes, but the thing is he has called other people scummy, yet isn't voting. It looks like he's waiting to hop on a wagon. AKA he's not putting his vote where his mouth is.

I have as long as I want to activate my daykill. I have an unknown quantity of the kills available, as my power does not completely remove the virus.

Diddin, you didn't answer my question. You've now gotten on two different people for unvoting without a revote. Why?
To clarify your power... you have an unlimited number of kills per day, but they can only be used after someone is killed by the virus. Correct?

[quadz08]

If the player doesn't say "I'm the Tree Stump" in thread, whether they have it or not, the ability doesn't go into use.

Why do you think that? That's not what the holder of the role stated...

Not only that... but now Muh's flipped town. What say you?

Is this directed towards me, or Ant?

[quadz08]

This post is kind of just a smattering of thoughts and responses and making some reads/opinions known. Sorry if it seems somewhat all over-the-place, but it is chronological (I'm pretty sure).

To clarify your power... you have an unlimited number of kills per day, but they can only be used after someone is killed by the virus. Correct?

I claim conditional dayvig. Now that the virus is active, I can "centralize" it on someone to get rid of it, killing the person. I am considering shooting WrathChild. Yay or nay?

I have as long as I want to activate my daykill. I have an unknown quantity of the kills available, as my power does not completely remove the virus.

You can read, no?
There you go.
Asking questions that don't really contribute and have already been answered is pointless.

Ever stop to think that I’m asking BECAUSE of what diddin put in your two quoted posts? Maybe I’m alone in this, but I’m still confused as to how his power works. Mostly, I’m having trouble wrapping my head around UNLIMITED DAYKILLS. I feel like that might a just a teeeeeeeny bit broken; if scum got it, all they have to do is daykill everybody who’s not on their team, and game over. Somehow, I doubt that’s how it works, but that’s how diddin made it sound. If anyone wants to actually explain where/how I’m wrong, please do.

Saint: Chill out, bro. No need to be a jerk. Also, your long posts seem somewhat disorganized, and some of your short ones seem pretty much pointless/random. (No reads here, just comments on playstyle.)

Why did I vote as all? Lets say I didn't vote at all. A few pages later, a random person asks me why I haven't voted yet. Ergo, I claim. Easy test to prove that I'm unlynchable: have the person I pass the treestump to confirm it. I don't think this is how a standard treestump works, I think this is just an ability that kunk put in the game that he decided to call treestump for lack of a better name.

This. Allllllll of this. Can we stop discussing the treestump now, please? We’ll find out how honest he was tomorrow, and we can get rid of him then, if need be. No need to do anything before then.

Unvote

VOTE: EC

i'm getting scummy vibes from his posts, although not entirely sure what. also:

V/LA for at least the next 4 days

Coooool. A vote with pretty much zero reasoning, followed by a 4 day V/LA. While I don’t fault him for the V/LA (obviously), the fact that he placed a vote that we can’t even question him on for the better part of a week concerns me quite a bit.

@Themanhimself: Your entire post #230 is terrible (except the first part, which I agree with despite its slight OMGUS-ness.) You use bad logic (‘this is your strategy” when the situation is completely different; “if you’re lynched it wouldn’t waste our lynch” when implosion stated differently already) the whole way through. I don’t like it.

Nullread after Parama has done so much seems a little strange to me.

Why does amount of posts mean you have to have a read on someone? That makes no sense.

The best way I believe for implosion to prove he is a treestump is to hammer someone. We see the vote, the mod would ignore it, meaning no hammer. Quick, dirty, doesn't waste a lynch.

I think this is a good strategy, as long as we’re not too close to a deadline.

FoS AntB

HoSing someone for being a newbie and signing up for a Large Theme? Your scumhunting here is faker than Heidi Montag.

QFT.

WHOA. Nero Cain, MAJOR

FoS

. You called out CKD on posting fluff in your 3rd post; however, your 4 total posts contain pretty much nothing EXCEPT for that vote, in fact. No bueno, my friend.

Right now, diddin, Parama, and Nero Cain are my heaviest scumreads. However, I’m inclined to agree with Nero about CKD: lots o’ fluff, not much else. Parama, I look forward to your explanation of what you’ve gained by being stupid so far, as well as a change in your play.

Trying to discern alignment from who has what role is pointless...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AntB
No it's not.
We don't want scum to control every single ability in this game

Powerrox, please read better / think harder. You’re not doing either very well right now.

THOSE WHO NEED TO POST MORE: Helghast, Powerrox93, q21, RC, TheLonging

[quadz08]

Nero Cain's ISO:

1st post:
RVS

2nd post:

Diddin's "catch" of WraithChild is horrible.

Already been pointed out at least once.

If Prama was town then I find it hard to believe that town ALSO has a daykill and him asking if its ok if he shot WC seems pretty fishy.

First half says "I don't understand what was clearly explained in the rules" and the second half says "this pro-town behavior is fishy."

So is Prama scum or is Diddin scum? Or are they both town?

Pointless unanswerable question.

I myself get major scum vibes from CKD.

unvote;vote:CKD

Vote with basically no explanation.

3rd post:
Basic explanation of vote after being questioned on it, followed by an affirmation of pop's point.

4th post:
"I don't think I'm an alt..." in response to a question.

5th post:
OMGUS response to me.

So, care to explain how your posts aren't fluff again?

[quadz08]

(also, Merry Christmas for all those who celebrate it. )

[quadz08]

Would it surprise you if I said I've been doing some dumb stuff on purpose?

Like, say, your most recent one, in which you inform us that you've been doing dumb stuff up til that point?

[quadz08]

Okay, have come to a conclusion:
Scum are using me as a target to defend and attack others with. Would it surprise you if I said I've been doing some dumb stuff on purpose?
Wouldn't be shocked if 2 scum are defending me and a third is attacking me.

Nice job taking things out of context.

I did, in fact, only quote one sentence. That's technically 'taking things out of context,' yes. However, I did not make a derogatory statement nor did I misrep you by doing so. Why are you upset?

Thanks for explaining, diddin. That makes more sense.

[quadz08]

I did not ask a question. I simply stated that I was looking forward to changes in your playstyle, and an explanation of what your earlier playstyle had gained for the town. If you're trying to say that you've already done the latter, I respond by saying that it is insufficient in my eyes.

[quadz08]

Hey, sorry I haven't been on in a while. I'll do a catch-up post soon. My apologies.

[quadz08]

Ok, big epic catch-up post of DOOOOOM. Here goes.

Parama, your lack of response to my post 255 does not look good on you. You have neither provided a rebuttal to my point, nor provided a sufficient explanation for why you utilized your earlier playstyle/why said playstyle was beneficial to the town.

Okay, have come to a conclusion:
Scum are using me as a target to defend and attack others with. Would it surprise you if I said I've been doing some dumb stuff on purpose?
Wouldn't be shocked if 2 scum are defending me and a third is attacking me.

I would like to know who you think those scums are. Just saying that you think there are some scums interacting with you really isn't enough.

QFT. In fact, most all of q21's post 263 is quite good. I'm not s ure how I feel about his suggestion of vigging implosion, though. He makes good points, but I don't know if it outweighs the loss of someone who looks to be a townie.

Why does amount of posts mean you have to have a read on someone? That makes no sense.

Not amount of posts. Amount of action. Parama has been involved in the first kill of the game, justified who he sent his ability to, etc. IMO, looking at those justifications and the person he decided to send the virus to should provide enough information for a non-null read, or at least some kind of opinion.

Idk. This is one of the things that bugs me about the general site meta here; after so much stuff happens, neutral reads are seemingly not allowed. (I consider nullread and neutral read one and the same; if that's incorrect/not what you meant, please inform me.)

p.s. I would also be happy voting EC or AntB

Your happy to vote me, yet have made no mention of me or aired any suspicions? The post I've quoted is the only one that contains my name in it.

FoS Saint

This is a good observation.

FoS Saint

from me, too.

FoS me for me being willing to lynch you?
Isn't that similar to OMGUS a little bit?
you're a great player!

you're a nice guy, and good at reading! (see what I did thar?)

I don't see why people are acting suspicious of diddin based on how he has handled his dayvig ability because it's been appropriate in every way, not fullclaiming, making it democratic so it's an extra lynch, all that.

I think the issue with diddin on the dayvig thing is that he's been very, very eager to use it. It's... disquieting, for lack of a better word.

AntB hasn't. HoSing someone for being a newb, then throwing around a ton of suspicion on Sait while keeping a vote on Narsis for voting for gut. Earlier he FoS's Saint for ...swearing and randomly posting... yeah.

Hello, misrep. No likey, diddin. Count yourself lucky you have the power you have.

Meta Hunt
PM'd

....... *facepalm*
Oh, great. Next few posts is you digging the hole deeper. Awwwwwesome.
Aaaaaaand off he goes. *waves goodbye*

Nero Cain's post 340

This is the whole post. All of the quotes from this section will contain only the first bit of what I'm responding to, for brevity's sake.

I fully admit that...

Fair enough, I suppose.

I agree that Diddin...

If you think that diddin democratically using the daykill is protown, then why'd you say it was fishy before? Additionally, if we're not determining roles from town vs. scummy play, then what game are we playing?

As far as my question goes...

Well of course that's the whole point of the game. However, just saying "So is Parama scum or is diddin scum? Or are they both town?" does not contribute to finding the answers to any of those questions. It's an empty question, and is not only fluff, but scummy fluff: you're trying to look like you're scumhunting, while really just typing empty words. Also, which question of diddin's are you referring to?

I really like how you blast me...

My response to Narsis' vote:

Coooool. A vote with pretty much zero reasoning, followed by a 4 day V/LA. While I don’t fault him for the V/LA (obviously), the fact that he placed a vote that we can’t even question him on for the better part of a week concerns me quite a bit.

My response to your ISO:

WHOA. Nero Cain, MAJOR FoS. You called out CKD on posting fluff in your 3rd post; however, your 4 total posts contain pretty much nothing EXCEPT for that vote, in fact. No bueno, my friend.

To be fair, Narsis should have gotten pretty much the same attention from me as you did, after going over his ISO. Nonetheless, I did specifically point out his vote as a negative, and your deflection to Narsis is duly noted.

I think Innocent had...

Side note, I agreed with most of quadz's post 240, then some of the players he questions that I totally agreed with the line of questioning (EC, theman) were not in his top 3. A bit suspicious.

I didn't have anything else to say about my top 3 than what I had already said. Not much else to it.

[quadz08]

assuming that implosion is telling the truth he's unkillable therefore Diddin's kill would not work.

Not so. I believe that implosion has declared unlynchable, not unkillable.

Helghast, I don't much care how often you vote (though there are people on this site who very much will). I DO care how often you post your reads and thoughts. You have done that approximately zero times so far (and looking through your ISO, about twice total. Once was saying you had gut feeling on diddin and parama, the other was saying you didn't see the scummy side of WC.). That makes you unreadable, and therefore scummy at worst, and anti-town at best. Consider yourself on (or at least near) the top of my vig-list.

I disagree with Quadz that he's unable to question Naris 'cause he's on V/LA. You can ASK you just wont get an answear till he comes back this way we can tell if he's reading/paying attention to the game.

If he's paying attention, he'll figure out that I want an explanation from him whether I directly ask it or not. Perhaps I should have said "that he can't even answer questions about" rather than "that we can't even question him on," but I feel that the point remains clear.

Additionally, you pointing out that post so quickly after this:"I really like how you blast me for the vote with no reason when Narsis did the same thing in is ISO #5 yet I'm scummy and he's not." seems hypocritical to me.

Well hello. Here's the thing, you haven't presented any evidence at all, you've made little to no effort to find scum.

QFT.

You're admitting their was no pro-town motivation for your play there...

which is essentially claiming scum?

Wait, what? That's kind of a stretch...

diddin, IAI's catch on ckd is not a good catch. I think that's a completely understandable misunderstanding.

Can you elaborate on this, please? To me, this sounds like you have information about scumkills that I didn't get in my role PM...

This, on the other hand, is a good catch.

In response to the sudden interest in vigging EC: wtf? why?

chkflip: post 417 is a pretty solid post. Town points for that one.

Reading IAI's response post, perhaps it's not as strong as I first thought. Well done, IAI.

No it is not anti-Town the entire game. The ability to publicly pass it for several days gives us solid sets of X and Y are not scum together data.

We'll have plenty of that, I imagine. Losing one role won't cost us that much data.

So does lynching Diddin if he doesn’t bow to public pressure which is sure to have some Mafia influence. Yet you are all for that.

Those are far from equivalent. Mafia has some small influence on what happens in the day. They have (pretty much) 100% control over their NK. Comparing the two is basically apples and oranges.

OH, SNAP. Hi StrangerCoug.

Awwww. Sad I'm your first vote? Boooooo.

RC, I like your post 473. Very good, I think.

MoI, your 476 has a lot of good stuff in it. The only thing I disagree with is this:

I agree with what you are saying but I don’t ascribe to letting diddin divest himself of responsibility. As Town I think the proper course of action is to let him make the shot himself and thus bear the responsibility for it.

I think that the responsible thing for us to do is use it as a second lynch. There’s a better chance of hitting scum. I don’t understand why holding diddin accountable is so important to you (or LynchMePls, after reading ahead).

I think connecting players before actually identifying them as scum is massively difficult and take no stock in it.

Ummmm… the whole point of this technique is that with the cycling mechanic, connecting players is a built-in feature. I don’t know how to do the math, but my guess is that by D3, between flips and connections from ability passing (assuming we do this based on MoI’s plan, which I haven’t seen any arguments against) we’ll be able to know that at least 1 or 2 additional players are scum. I don’t understand what your beef is with this.
Otherwise, your 486 and 487 are excellent. Well done, sir.

My current VI readings put chkflip, Saint, and powerrox at the top of the list. Powerrox is probably first.

I am going to VOTE: Nero Cain. diddin is scummy, but I don't want to lynch him. Nero is scummier anyway. I also think Parama is still scummy.

Vig Candidates

: Nero Cain, powerrox, Helghast, and Saint (Narsis was here, but now he's being replaced)

Sorry that was so long. :/ I should keep better updated now that the holidays are over.

[quadz08]

I had 10 pages to catch up on. Sorry if your eyes hurt.

[quadz08]

Those are far from equivalent. Mafia has some small influence on what happens in the day. They have (pretty much) 100% control over their NK. Comparing the two is basically apples and oranges.

Um what? I’ve never made any argument about the Mafia NK being equivalent to Town voting. Where are you getting this from?

Identifying who he is going to pass his daykill ability is HORRIBLE because scum can shoot that person and remove the vig ability from the game permanently.

If you don't have at least an idea about a player that has made a decent number of posts, then, yeah, that's not too good. I agree with implosion here. Now if you want to qualify your opinion, that's a whole 'nother thing, and it's quite acceptable (I do it all the time).

Right, and my point was that I feel like neutral reads aren't generally accepted past a certain point. Maybe that's just my experience, though. *shrug*

So does lynching Diddin if he doesn’t bow to public pressure which is sure to have some Mafia influence. Yet you are all for that.

Right there. You're saying pops can't be for picking who diddin shoots (because if he doesn't, then we lynch him) while being against picking who we pass his ability to (because scum will shoot said person). You are equating the mafia's power in picking the vig shot to their power in picking the NK, which is completely ridiculous.

Quit stalling, diddin.

QFT. Helghast dies, now. If you post again without a shot, my vote goes to you.

[quadz08]

Powerrox, read the thread, man. It's all over the place. Not hard to find.

I’m suggesting that lynching diddin if he refuses to follow Pop’s plan (which I clearly disagree with, as stated multiple times) results in removing the ability. I also say that the Mafia will have some influence in the ‘Town’ direction of diddin’s shot. I’m stating outright that if Pops’ plan of ‘Direct or Die’ isn’t followed by diddin and he is lynched that it GUARENTEES the ability is removed from the game. The Mafia would not have to act at all to remove a Cycling Ability.

Ah, ok. That makes more sense. Thank you for the explanation.

[quadz08]

I wanted to wait until as close to deadline as possible.

Why the hell would you do that? *scumdarasplode*

I like WC's 627. +town

Nero Cain is starting to look townier as well, I think. He seems to be posting content now, anyway.

I still don't like Saint. His posting style and tendency to jump around really bugs me, though I'm not sure if it's really scummy or not.

diddin is at the top of my scumlist right now, but I don't want to vote for him because of his role. I say we vig him tomorrow.

Parama is a close second. He still hasn't provided me with a response to this:

Parama, I look forward to your explanation of what you’ve gained by being stupid so far, as well as a change in your play.

Additionally, he's posted next to nothing since the AntB incident, and has flat out refused to read part of the game. (ISO 36).

Lastly, powerrox is just incredibly anti-town. He's very clearly our resident VI, and so I will UNVOTE: and...

VOTE: powerrox.

I am in favor of removing VI's and anti-town players early, because I'd rather get rid of them while we still can (as in, when we're not in lylo or a similar situation.) I'm definitely down for a parama lynch today, though.

[quadz08]

Hey quadz.
I don't even care about what you want from me. If you find it scummy that I haven't responded, then you're going to hate me after this game's over.

k.

I wanted to wait until as close to deadline as possible.

Why the hell would you do that? *scumdarasplode*

Because shooting before everyone can voice their opinion on a daykill we were going to decide to be done democratically is a great idea!

Ok, see, waiting for everyone to voice their opinion makes sense. Waiting as close to deadline as possible does NOT.

Quadz: Why are you lynching VI's when you have SCUMREADS? Why is lynching an anti-town player that you think *COULD* be scum when you could lynch someone you're pretty sure is scum?

Anti Town does NOT equal scummy. You have failed to voice your opinion on whether you even think power is scum or not.

unvote, Vote: quadz08

This is in response to diddin, SC, RC, and anyone else who has/will get on me about this. I realize my position goes against site meta, and may be seen as scummy. Nonetheless, my belief is that it is more beneficial to the town to remove distractions early on, allowing more time to cement scumreads and townreads. I think powerrox has been scummy. I think Parama has been scummier. I think that powerrox is significantly more distracting and harder to read than Parama, and will cause unnecessary confusion in later Days. Thus, my vote for powerrox.

[quadz08]

SC: I see Saint as slightly scummy. I think he's trying to contribute, but his playstyle is difficult to read. In addition, it seems like his vote and scumreads have been all over the place, which I really don't like.

Additionally, WTFTMH??? No lynch = baaaaaad. And (like SC said) why suggest it if you're not in favor? That makes no sense. Consider this an

FoS

.

[quadz08]

tmh: self-preservation is inherently scummy, unless he has a very powerful role. A townie (assuming it's not lylo or something) should understand that the town comes before himself, whereas for scum, that's not the case.

Does this mean the expanded Top X list of yours would have included these players that you questioned in 240?

No, not necessarily. I question people as I see things that need to be questioned; many times, it's the answers to the questions that determine scumminess. Questioning someone does not mean I think they're scummy, at least in my book.

How many times did we agree I was shooting people with a lot of votes (hint: not EC)? How many times did I say I didn't want someone else to claim and potentially out a stronger power role? It's like I'm talking to someone and whenever I make a point they stick their fingers in their ear and go LALALALALALA YOU'RE WRONG YOU'RE WRONG

How many time? Never. We never agreed that you were shooting people with alot of votes. You actually never mentioned votes when limiting who you wanted shot. Ever. The first time you mentioned that you weren't going to shoot anyone outside Helghast or WC (ISO 20) they were on 3 and 2 votes respectively, EC was on... also 2. When you said it again (ISO 29) the only change in that situation was that Helghast had gotten 1 more vote.

Lol. diddinscum. lynch/vig tomorrow. 'nuff said.

[quadz08]

No, finding someone else scummy and posting a case on them should be your first instinct. Then you're pushing the town to lynch someone scummy, not just to not lynch you. Yes, defending a townie is generally pro-town, but just because someone is is defending me doesn't mean I give them town points. They have to have good reasoning and logic, and not have scum motivation to defend me. The act of defending a townie is more complex than you seem to think.

[quadz08]

Hi, I'm Parama, and I have difficulty separating playstyle issues from scumminess.

Also, well said, pops.

[quadz08]

My guess is that there's a secret extra vote somewhere; SC brought up the extra vote, and I find it unlikely that he'd call attention to his own secret ability.

[quadz08]

In a shocking turn of events, I have decided to

VOTE: diddin.

[quadz08]

Ooh, also. Are we still going to follow MoI's plan, illustrated in post 827? I think it's a good idea, but I don't want to if most of us disagree with it.

P-EDIT: What tmh and lmp said.

[quadz08]

TMH: you suck at thinking. Seriously.

LynchMePls: I completely disagree about vigging democratically, but we've worn this discussion out already.

Also, I had the Hibernate ability. I was bulletproof (not unkillable, just bulletproof).

P-Edit: Holy SHIT TMH. You sent anti-town ability to someone you think is scummy? Are you kidding me? I hope your reads are as bad as your play, or he'd better get lynched TODAY.

[quadz08]

By voting on it, we get the worst of both worlds. The shot is now controlled at least partially by scum input, AND we can't discern the alignment of the dayvig based on the decision, because they can disown the decision as not there own. The only possible upside is that you force interactions from everyone by requiring a vig-vote, BUT WE ALREADY GET THIS FROM REGULAR VOTES!

But if we do it democratically, then it's essentially 2 lynches per day. This means that we get twice the info that we'd get from a lynch. Yes, it absolves a single person from responsibility, but we gain more information about the entire town.

Note both Darla's admission that her play was terrible and attempt to buddy me.

This. Weaksauce, Darla. Step it up.

[quadz08]

Ooh ooh my turn! *harrumph* LEARN TO READ DIDDIN.

Seems like a good idea to me. I had the power to change the cycle of night choices for N1. For example, I could tell the mod to send diddin's power to someone else regardless of who diddin tried to send it to. I sent the day-vig ability to myself and the person who got my redirect power knows who they are probably figured out why I sent it to them. I'm all for using my power democratically

That felt good.

[quadz08]

Oh, eff. *facepalm*

QUADZ LEARN TO READ.

I took care of it, guys. My bad, diddin.

[quadz08]

I thought diddin was claiming that he'd be confirmed tomorrow because of the vig ability, not the redirection ability. I then realized my error and felt very dumb.

However, it seems at least possible that we have multiple scumteams, so I would shy away from calling diddin confirmed town.

[quadz08]

SC, does the role PM mention any other trigger for the virus to kill someone?

[quadz08]

What do you mean? As far as I'm aware, it works the same way as it did when Parama started with it.

I was wondering if there was anything Parama hadn't mentioned; for some reason, it just seemed odd that the dayvig could just never get used.

[quadz08]

The reasoning noone is voting me is because the game has a good read on me, I have been scumhunting, and my posting has been beneficial for the town.

As many have said, Bunnylover has some 'splaining to do. SC, please hold off on sending him the virus until he does.

Also, I'm liking nhammen so far. Please, keep it up.

Are we assuming the Shotgun to MoI was Vig and Purge to Chk was Mafia?

I don't think MoI would have been vigged (at least, not by a townie). I think MoI's death is likely the result of the mafia nightkill.

Also, Parama, I agree with the whoever it was earlier to stop pretending that you're Fate. We're not just gonna sheep you and assume you're town/correct. Lose the superiority complex, please.

[quadz08]

I'm calling OMGUS on this one.

k.

[quadz08]

I know you didn't ask me, but I'm good to give Bunny the virus.

[quadz08]

EBWOP: in conclusion, I'd rather see a dead Wrath than a dead Bunny, for the time being
VOTE: WrathChild

It took you 22 minutes to decide this?

Fluffflufffluffflufffluff. Who the hell cares how long it took? What does this post contribute to other than your post count?

Can we send the virus to him? PLEASE?

I find it likely that Bunny is a _I (either S or V, not sure). I'm leaning towards S, especially considering the quickhammer.

List of people who should die: Nero Cain, Bunnylover, TMH, diddin, probably Saint

[quadz08]

Bunnylover is still alive, so this implies that, even though you support me having given Bunnylover the bomb to some extent, you know she's town. FoS.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that the "bunnytown flip" was a hypothetical. Just guessing. Small

FoS

for the misrep.

[quadz08]

Sooooooo..... what's the deal with RC, Lat, Nero, and q21? Info, please.

[quadz08]

Bunny, I want to know.

[quadz08]

I know your pissed that I called out your scumbuddy, CKD, but alot can happen in 22 minutes. But your right, even if he were scum its not like he'd actually admit to reading a QT.

..... Oooooookay then. Nero Cain's Unfounded Accusations Tally: +1.

[quadz08]

I’m re-reading from the beginning of Day 2. I apologize for the wall post, but I think I got some good info out of it, that everyone (coughparamacough) should read. Cause, you know, it's important game-related info, even if it happens to be a lot of it in one place.

Also, who has the hot potato for today? I've reason beyond our previous speculation to believe that it came back today but I'll get into that a little later.

I don’t think you’ve explained this yet. Do.

God, TMH. I have to point out again: taking the vig was STUPID.

I’m liking LMP’s case on Darla more and more as I read it… hm.

Prama too. After he came back and pretty much said "I can't scum hunt without an ability!!!"

When was this, exactly? I don’t recall him saying anything resembling that.

Here's your explanation:

<insert explanation here>

vote: themanhimself

Stop being bad at Mafia. Seriously.

Also @ everyone that pushed for a lynch of Powerox with his ability, do you still think that was a pro-town move?

Has anyone answered this question? We need answers to this.

IAI’s 872 confuses me. Why is that quote scummy, exactly?

If you are in reality town, you should have given your ability to the most antitown player you could and then shot them.

This is a good strategy, but not workable. The virus has to go off before the dayvig can work.

I do not like how Parama avoids question, and everyone just seems to think, "Its ok, its just Parama been Parama."
Meta =/= alignment
The use of his power on Day 1 was stupid. He says he going to pass the potatoe to a person who deserves it, but then passes it not even one page into the game. Not even half the players have posted, and he decides he already found the best place to past it?
No.

This is true. Allllll true. Parama’s 884 and 885 are even more proof at how bad of a player he’s being, in addition to him being scummy.

Parama’s reread post (898) is basically completely useless:
First, he says q21 should die based on post count. This is not a bad point, though the reaction is rather strong.
Second, he makes a useless comment about TL and how scummy he is / how his replacement is confirmed town (which, btw, he never explained.)
Then, he points out 7 quotes/posts. 3 of them hadn’t been mentioned before, 2 of them were “hey go town this guy’s dead,” and 2 of them had been thoroughly discussed before. The 3 new things he mentioned (pops’ quote, “let’s play the passive game” and “This just looks so fake”) have no further explanation about them. He posts those quotes, and that’s it.
He also mentioned being unsure about pops’ push on muh (or something? I’m not even sure, actually.) and me being boneheaded and obsessive about little things (with no examples).
Then comes a scumlist, and a declaration of 75% accuracy. (3 of the 4 people on his list are apparently scum. Impressive for someone whose scumhunting is more or less nonexistent. Seriously, look at his ISO. The post I’m talking about now is the closest thing to scumhunting he’s got.)
I guess he’s still in the process of rereading the rest, like he said he would. Or maybe he’s not. Y’know. Whatev.

How about you get back to the part where you tell us why you got to cause StrangerCougar to get the virus? What did the mod tell you the reason was that you were picked for it?

Pops’ answer (in 926): “You don't need to know that information. This is blatant, overt rolefishing. This info doesn't tell you anything about my alignment. It helps town more than scum to know exactly what roles are in the game, because Darla claimed doctor the scum now know to mindgame against the doctor.”
I’m… not sure how I feel about this. I’m assuming you meant to say “it helps scum more than town,” for one… I’m just not so sure that holding back this information is pro-town.

Parama 950: badposting

WC 957: You seem very set on the idea that there’s an SK…

Parama 958: morebadposting

I really like pops’ 963. I really don’t like how SC ignores it and passes the virus to bunny anyway.

Frankly, what disturbs me most about this situation is that Pops points it out, no one gives knowledge to it, and then one other person points it out and several people go, "OMFG NICE CATCH."

You'd be surprised at how reliable slips are for catching Mafia In one game that allowed role PM quoting, I had the claim almost perfect, but gave out the wrong win condition. I tried claiming jester as a get out of hell free card since players could be revived that game and I could fake my reveal, but that didn't work.

I don’t understand how this is relevant. At all.

Anyone who interferes with the process of using the virus as a daykill is promised a lynch, so that won't happen.

That doesn’t actually make sense. Just fyi.

Yea, TMH sending the day vig to himself is BAD!!!
He's tomorrow's lynch.

At least we agree on something…

Q21's 897 sucked.

Why does it suck, exactly?

You really seem to jump on the biggest wagon each time don't you? Anything original you would like to add to the table?

QFT.

Ok, now I can see why SC would pass Bunny the virus after pops’ quote. There were several players (myself included) who said they were good for Bunny to get the virus. Suspicion for that is pretty much retracted.

I know how Bunny plays as scum, and I know she starts spouting ATE and flailing like no tomorrow when she is caught.

Please link us to examples.

chk's ability did NOT go to the void. It was removed from the game. Any abilities passed TO chk or MoI were sent to the void. Which is what the discussion is about. Please read the rules and iso the mod before posting next.

Again, QFT.


I know I already pointed Nero’s 1007 out, but….. ick. Just ick.

Did I post after the lie was mentioned but before I voted him for it? My memory's a bit hazy right now and I'm too lazy to check.

I don’t like this. Not a scum/town thing, just a playstyle thing.

Pops, your plan won't work. The virus will go off after "X" number of post. It will go off sooner if I don't past the virus before 75 post. This mean that I could be passing it to you, you back to me, until suddenly it just explodes on one of us predetermine.

Ummmm... is this accurate? Can someone who’s had the virus confirm this?
Oh, there’s the confirmation. Sweeeeet. The virus needs to stay on the scummiest people, all the time. Period. I’m good with Saint; I suggest it goes to diddin or Parama next. It’d be TMH if it weren’t for the vig ability. Diddin gets bonus points on this one, since he’s got the Redirector ability, and his flip will be a large help in determining TMH’s alignment.

didden/tmh scum is actually a viable combo.

No, it’s not. TMH passed diddin his D1 ability, which was to alter the destination of one role. He chose to redirect the vig role to himself. The pass of the redirector role was a separate thing, governed completely by the rules.

Darla is scum btw, might give an explanation later.

Please do that now.

are you even reading the game?...just +1....if they are not unfounded, they are out and out lies until someone calls him out of it and he gives you the old "oops i was wrong BS"...

+1 meaning add 1, meaning I didn’t feel like going back and actually counting them. I’m aware that there have been others.

@IAI 991; Treestumping tmh tomorrow is a good idea. It could both get rid of the treestump and (bonus) assuming tmh is scum (which I am about 99% sure of) it can confirm curiouskarmadog's alignment; if he fails to treestump tmh, he's mafia. If the treestump dies with tmh, he's town. What do people think about this plan?

I like it.

Wow, DBE sent me the virus, in spite of never having indicated suspicion of me, iirc

Hooo boy! That’s the best evidence I’ve seen against Darla. Keep that virus going to her, please and thank you.

I chose diddin

Good choice.

Overall, Darla sucks, diddin still sucks, Nero still sucks, WC sucks less, nhammen doesn't suck (though I'm ready for something other than catch-up posts), Parama still sucks, IAI doesn't suck, Bunny sucks, TMH sucks a LOT.

That is all. <3

[quadz08]

You ad-hom'ed me 7 times in that post. Impressive.

Ad Hominem: To attack a player about something not relevant to the game.

Where, exactly, did I ad-hom you? I just read through it, and I'm not finding anything.

[quadz08]

I'm with RC; let's flip it, and lynch diddin today, since we can't lynch TMH cause of his ability. Which actually reminds me: does no one else find it suspicious that diddin is still alive today, even though he held the dayvig power? Cause I do.

Yes that was the criteria for D1, but a bomb every day to activate the vig was not something I expected, or would have N1. Did you?

Actually, this is a really good point. I would have assumed that since the virus had gone off D1, that it was simply gone, and the dayvig power was free to use for the rest of the game. It coming back today was unexpected, and I assume it would have been unexpected for TMH as well... well said, IAI.

[quadz08]

The problem with lynching diddin is that if TMH passed the bus driving ability to diddin and TMH is mafia, isn't diddin confirmed town?

That's rather the point. If diddin is mafia, then TMH is confirmed town, and both of them have been scummy. If we lynch diddin today, we can clear TMH now AND remove the ability busdriver, whereas we want to wait until tomorrow to lynch TMH, since he has the dayvig. I'll go over both of them in ISO soon and see if one reeeeally stands out, but assuming they're about the same, I think that diddin should be the lynch today. It gives us more info, faster, which is reeeeeeally important right now.

[quadz08]

To my knowledge, the virus can be passed between scumpartners, as it is a non-standard ability. At least, that is our best guess.

Back to ISOing diddin and and TMH I go!

[quadz08]

Spoiler: TMH/diddin ISOs

diddin’s ISO:
1- His vote on WC for the unvote without a revote, which begins suspicion of diddin
3- claim of dayvig: immediate ask for validation on shooting WC
4- He does it again, this time on pops. Slightly better explanation on this one, though I still don’t really see it as a scumtell.
5- further explanation of unvote/revote thing, prompted by my question
6- explicit statement of using vig as second lynch
15- votes AntB; reasoning addressed earlier
16- goes back to WC after AntB’s modkill, mentioning Lat’s case, his old case, and recent lurking
17- says he’ll shoot WC if more people agree on the shot
19- doesn’t understand case on EC
20- states that WC is a better lynch candidate, and says Helghast is vigbait (not actually sure if this means that he wants to vig helghast and lynch WC, or shoot WC because Helghast is an easy misvig)
21- I think this clarifies my earlier question; he wants to vig Helghast and lynch WC. This is a change of pace, but understandable; Helghast posted relatively frequently in this chunk of the game, and the conversation switched to him as well. No longer out of sight, out of mind, perhaps?
22- refuses to shoot EC
27- says he wishes he could shoot both WC and Helghast
29- refuses to shoot anyone other than WC or Helghast to avoid additional claims
30- responds to WC’s question about not shooting EC; says he doesn’t want more claims (which is odd, because that wasn’t mentioned when he originally said he wouldn’t shoot EC…)
32- says he’ll vig Helghast because it gives more connections than a vig on WC
33- daykills helghast; says he wanted to wait until as close to deadline as possible
34- [quote=diddin] How many times did we agree I was shooting people with a lot of votes (hint: not EC)? How many times did I say I didn't want someone else to claim and potentially out a stronger power role?[/quote] Also votes me for the reasoning for my powerrox vote
36- says EC had less votes for vigging at the time he said he wouldn’t vote him (this is later proven incorrect by somebody I don’t remember)
37- returns to previous EC reasoning after being called out on the votes thing
39- votes powerrox; explains why powerrox, not tmh (says tmh has been fairly pro-town outside of suggesting a no-lynch)
40- D2! Says TMH is scum after vig-steal fiasco, claims TMH’s busdriver, votes TMH
42- votes me based on my vote of powerrox, calls me confirmed scum; FoS on Bunny for FoS w/out vote on TMH
45- says Bunny is scum after VT/rolepassing deal
49- passes virus to Bunny
51- calls out RC on tunneling him; says he hasn’t mentioned tmh’s alignment all day (good catch; I’ll check that one out)
54- passes virus to Darla (after a single previous mention of her, during D1, about a singular post)
55- says virus PM says ability is non-standard; calls TMH out for smearing him

TMH’s ISO:
1- Votes pops for seeming paranoid (feeling strawmanned when no one says he’s scummy)
3- Says he gets a nullread from Parama after muh’s death
4- votes EC for calling Parama scummy due to muh’s death
5- says he’s null on diddin; advises waiting to kill him until the vig has been passed
7- votes Implosion to see if he’s telling the truth about the stump; still null on Parama; doesn’t trust diddin with vig; null on WC; says Saint is “over the top” but decides to keep it on the back burner (just… a loooooot of nullreads / fencesitting here)
9- withdraws case for experimental lynch on Implosion, but doesn’t remove vote
12- unvotes implosion after a reminder from q21
14- agrees with Ant’s concern about Saint’s sudden vote for Ant
16- agrees on WC shot (after mentioning nullread) because it will “give us some more info to go off of either way”
17- further explanation on WC vig: not helpful or contributing, though scumminess is debatable
20- doesn’t see Helghast as scum at all; says Lat gives him a weird vibe; not sure about WC lynch, though he’s for a vig
21- votes EC based on previous reasoning (though he hasn’t been mentioned since #4); doesn’t like Saint-to-diddin communication, as it looks like coaching
23- says he’s good for vig on either pops or ckd, though he feels pops is a better shot due to his reasoning in iso #1 (which is pretty lame…)
24- vigvotes helghast, WC, and EC (after not finding Helghast scummy at all)
26- says he realizes he switched his stance on Helghast; sees WC as a newb
27- asks why diddin is procrastinating on the kill
30- suggests no lynch due to 3 townie deaths
31- doesn’t understand powerrox wagon
34- iso of powerrox
36- top 3 suspects (requested by Lat): Saint (jumping/not doing anything worthwhile), diddin (waiting to kill & not considering some people), pops (posting a lot without contributing) (interesting thought on pops; not sure I agree. I remember pops being pretty helpful, myself)
39- says he’s neutral on no lynch decision; changes vote to Saint
41- says his mind has been changed on powerrox; his logic is… questionable
42- diddin is ‘full of scum’
43- says he sees self-preservation as pro-town, and if someone protects you, it should make them appear more townie (seems to be just a playstyle thing)
58- D2: Asks who has virus; says he has reason to believe it came back (not sure if he was referring to having the vig)
60- Says he redirected the dayvig ability to himself
61- gives (bad) reasoning for taking ability; says he will vig based on pure majority vote
62- said he sent the redirector (anti-town) to a scummy player
64- FoS on WC for asking about bomb & virus (not sure if this is really a scumtell)
68- says he passed virus to diddin
76- says he most supports the vig of diddin or Parama

So... after those ISOs (which took much longer than I intended. Dammit, school) I’m thinking that TMH is scummier than diddin. diddin has been considerably townier on D2 than he was at the beginning of the game. TMH, on the other hand, has gotten scummier and scummier and scummier as the game goes on. The steal of the dayvig is just so anti-town I can’t even believe it. Then, he sent the busdriving ability to a scumread, which is almost as bad.
Something that’s bugging me, though, is everyone’s insistence that only one of them can be scum. That’s NOT TRUE. Very simple. Not true. They can absolutely both be scum, just on different scumgroups.

ALSO: I passed my power to MoI last night. Sorry it took so long for me to say so.

I’m really not liking Saint’s recent posts…

IAI vs. pops comes across as town vs. town to me.

Bunny is being dumb about the protect/pass thing with Darla… *sigh*

TMH: shoot diddin, Parama, Nero, or Saint. Those are my votes.

Also: TMH AND DIDDIN WILL NOT BE CONFIRMED BY KILLING THE OTHER ONE. SERIOUSLY. STOP SAYING THAT.

[quadz08]

Are you saying "more worthy lynch candidate" from your perspective, or theirs? Give me an example of what exactly you're referring to, please.

[quadz08]

Are you saying "more worthy lynch candidate" from your perspective, or theirs? Give me an example of what exactly you're referring to, please.

I am saying all four people you want to see vigged are town reads for me. Not one scummy player like bunnylover or Wrath Child, who hammered Powerox very shortly after he claimed a role (who was the competing lynch again....oh yeah, TMH)? Or how about Pops, who gave the green light to bunnylover / wrath child instead of discussing pros / cons for keeping the role in the game. These are a couple to name a few.

Are these town reads for you?

That was actually intended for diddin, but to respond to your question: Bunny and WC are slightly scummy, while pops is on the town side of null. I've been meaning to look over pops' ISO, though; that's pretty much a gut feeling on him.

Also, I feel like it might not be a bad idea to just lynch TMH now. With this many dead townies, we can't afford to have scum end up with an extra kill, whether it's by poor passing decisions from TMH, or the redirector, or even something we don't know about. And besides, after the kill on Parama after promising multiple times to wait? Let's hang this guy.

VOTE: TMH

[quadz08]

Just something to think about, I suppose. I don't think it would be a terrible idea, but if the rest of the town doesn't like it, I definitely understand why.

[quadz08]

Vi, I appreciate you catching up and everything, but I think agree with IAI. Your scum/town lists from earlier in the game aren't terribly helpful; if anything, they're confusing. I'm quite interested to hear your reads once you're fully caught up, though.

After reading the arguments on lynching TMH tonight, I'm actually going to do a 180: he should get the stump and get vigged tomorrow. It makes too much sense to NOT do it. Having the dayvig around longer is a concern for me, but if it's pretty much gonna be used to get rid of TMH/the stump, there's no reason to get rid of it.

UNVOTE:

At this point, I'm not terribly confident in any of my reads. diddin's D1 play, though, stands out to me as the scummiest thing thus far, so

VOTE: diddin

[quadz08]

Of course, we could just ask whoever night-vigged last Night to step forward, as I don't think anyone has claimed it.

I'm in favor of this. I don't see a downside, anyway.

[quadz08]

Yeah, but there's not a lot of evidence pointing to one right now—only that MagnaofIllusion and chkflip died the same night. What town relevance is there in differentiating Mafia from a potential Mafia A and Mafia B?

Example: TMH is mafia A. diddin is mafia B. They are completely capable of passing powers to one another, meaning that IF ONE FLIPS SCUM THE OTHER IS NOT CONFIRMED TOWN, as I've said at least twice now.

Overall, Darla sucks, diddin still sucks, Nero still sucks, WC sucks less, nhammen doesn't suck (though I'm ready for something other than catch-up posts), Parama still sucks, IAI doesn't suck, Bunny sucks, TMH sucks a LOT.

Agree about Darla, diddin, Nero, and WC (except for the less part). Disagree about Parama and Bunny. Agree about TMH. Also, something is creeping me out about how you have frequently stated I am town or have defended me. It's like an ex-girlfriend repeatedly trying to get back together.

Hey quadz, I never saw a response to this. I'd like to see if there is anything you want to say.

Not really, no. Just statements of my reads.

After reading the arguments on lynching TMH tonight, I'm actually going to do a 180: he should get the stump and get vigged tomorrow. It makes too much sense to NOT do it. Having the dayvig around longer is a concern for me, but if it's pretty much gonna be used to get rid of TMH/the stump, there's no reason to get rid of it.

UNVOTE:

At this point, I'm not terribly confident in any of my reads. diddin's D1 play, though, stands out to me as the scummiest thing thus far, so

VOTE: diddin

One problem with this post. Without diddin, the dayvig probably goes to the void. So why exactly are you wanting to not lynch tmh if it isn't to save the dayvig?

... dammit. This game... UNVOTE: diddin

His taking of the power role was scummy

Not particularly. If someone like Moai had done it nobody would have raised a fuss.

Ummmm... I hope that's not the case. I sure as hell would have.

@Saint: Why are you making such a fuss over me mentioning multiple scumteams? It's playing pretty heavily into the whole TMH/diddin thing; I don't see why it's scummy (or even bad play) for me to mention it.

[quadz08]

Honestly? I don't have a clue who to vote FOR. I haven't the foggiest idea of who's scum, except for thinking TMH and diddin are scummy, and as described above, voting for them isn't a good idea.

[quadz08]

Honestly? I don't have a clue who to vote FOR. I haven't the foggiest idea of who's scum, except for thinking TMH and diddin are scummy, and as described above, voting for them isn't a good idea.

So, other than those two no other scum read? Not even partial or slightly leaning scum scumreads? Really?

I have scumreads on Nero Cain, Bunny, and Saint still. I could have my vote on any one of the three, but it wouldn't mean anything, and I don't really think any of them is scummier than another. If it's gonna be an issue for me to not my have my vote somewhere, I'll throw it on one of the three of them.

[quadz08]

Ummmmmm... I suspected you long before Vi started posting. Nice try on the misrep, though.

[quadz08]

And if the fact that I suspected you is new information, you must be completely unfamiliar with the thread.

[quadz08]

ITT quadz implies he hasn't read anything I've said?

Ummmmm... care to explain that comment?

I want everyone on record on the following two questions before we get to N2.

1) If TMH survives to D3, and assuming the day vig makes it to D3, should TMH be killed D3 (either voluntarily by holding the virus, or forced through the day vig)?

2) If TMH survives D2, should CKD pass the tree stump to TMH N2?

1) yes
2) yes

[quadz08]

In most games with more than one kill at Night, the idea of two scumgroups never comes up at all. So why is this game a special occasion?

Ummmm... as far as I remember, all the large games I've been in (which isn't many: 1 full game, 1 game I replaced into and died that night, and 1 that was Zwet's Bastard Mod II which doesn't even count as a game of mafia) HAVE had speculation about multiple scumteams when there were multiple kills. And honestly, I don't see why that wouldn't be the case normally. Yes, as a general rule, it doesn't matter to the town if you kill Scumteam A or Scumteam B, but the PRESENCE of Scumteam A and Scumteam B changes the dynamics of the game significantly. Nighttime interactions change, and scum players become harder to pick out / commit different tells, as they are genuinely scumhunting as well. In short, this game isn't a special occasion in my experience, and from what I can see, should be the norm.

quadz - Absolutely. You said you had a scum read on Saint since before I posted. Yet you've acknowledged almost nothing of what I've said, even after I pretty much directly called you out for being scum multiple times. I'm led to believe you either haven't read it all, already had your mind made up about this slot with artificial tunnel vision, or both.

You've called me everything from townie to today's lynch; it all depends on where you were in your readthrough. I didn't find it necessary to comment on old news, Vi. Once you're fully caught up, show me a case, and I'll respond to that.
Also, just because I'm not consistently quoting your posts doesn't mean I'm not reading them. Unless I posted something that shows ignorance of a view/idea you had, it's pretty ridiculous to assume I didn't read what you wrote. FWIW, your posts are adding town cred to your slot, but I'm reserving real judgement until you're fully caught up.

HI DGB.

[quadz08]

You've called me everything from townie to today's lynch; it all depends on where you were in your readthrough. I didn't find it necessary to comment on old news, Vi. Once you're fully caught up, show me a case, and I'll respond to that.

I called you Townie for the first ten pages, and outlined in no uncertain terms what I've found wrong since. Try harder.

That doesn't change my original point: it's based on old stuff. 4 sentences, in 4 different posts, on my play for the first 40 pages does not a case make.

Unless I posted something that shows ignorance of a view/idea you had, it's pretty ridiculous to assume I didn't read what you wrote. FWIW, your posts are adding town cred to your slot, but I'm reserving real judgement until you're fully caught up.

My posts about tmh have nothing to do with me being caught up, and given that I'm saying ludicrously controversial things one would think that you would at least mention them. Again, try harder.[/color]

Ludicrously controversial things being where you're saying "TMH is town," I imagine? If that is what you're talking about, why aren't you asking the whole rest of the playerlist about this? I haven't seen ANYONE comment on it. My guess is that's because people are going "oh that makes sense" but nobody wants to say it, honestly. Nobody wants to be the guy who a) sheeps the new guy, and b) flip-flops on someone that people have been calling scummy all game long.

*sigh* I knew not revoting would get me in trouble. Honestly, at that point, I was fed up and frustrated, and not thinking terribly clearly. There's no reason for me not to have a vote on one of my scumreads, and I'm aware of that fact; I was just in a bad mood and frustrated with how poorly this game is going.
That said,
VOTE: Nero Cain

quadz and SC were the weird ones in that group, btw. quadz, as far as I know, wasn't interested in Parama being shot until Darla flipped. quadz, is this true?

I don't believe it is, no. Parama had been scummy to me all game long, and I know I mentioned that.

I support the Quadz, Wrath and to an extent the TMH wagons

I see absolutely no pro-towness in TMH

Ummmmmmmwhat? You only support his wagon to an extent, but you see no pro-townness in him at all?

DGB, can you explain how you came to your points and distancing in this post? I really like the different methodology, I just think that for it to be effective, we have to understand how you got your results.

[quadz08]

Thanks, DGB.

Nero, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

[quadz08]

*quadz - When did "old stuff" mean "irrelevant"? And more to the point, have you even DONE anything relevant enough to change these reads?

It doesn't mean irrelevant. It means incomplete. As for your second question, I don't think I've been scummy at all; I haven't changed my playstyle (consciously, at least) for the entire course of the game, so I'm not sure why the stuff I'm doing now is getting me scumpoints, when the same playstyle read as town earlier.

[quadz08]

Claim:

I'm a townie, and I have no powers tonight.

I do want to emphasize again that when I unvoted without a revote, I was just frustrated with the game (and life in general).
I would appreciate it if someone were to post the case on me altogether in one post, or point me to a post where it's been done in the past, so I can respond directly.

Also, I believe that

I am at L-1

. Please don't hammer before I can respond to the case against me.

[quadz08]

Also,

Mod: Votecount?