DEFCON Mafia 2.0 - Over, American Victory!

[Kitoari]

/confirm

Fakevote: Jed Cooper

[Kitoari]

We should pick someone by consensus who we believe is town to have them take one of the obviously pro-scum abilities.

[Kitoari]

I don't think we'll be able to reach a consensus on multiple people before Defcon 4.

[Kitoari]

How am I going to keep up with this game?

Trying to catch up now, looks like Fate started posting so I could maybe glean some insight from his posts.

[Kitoari]

Let's lynch gandalf day 1.

This I can get behind.

SP, you haven't even played with me since Alphabet Mafia. >.>

I would much rather lynch chesskid D1 than gandalf.

[Kitoari]

This game is extremely high in OMGUS content.

I agree with Fate's 403, at least until there's something better to go on.

In regard to controlled nukes vs. not controlled nukes, while I think that organized would probably lead to a better situation for town, there will come a point when one guy thinks that XXX is screaming scum and nuke him without consent. Things will then generally descend into chaos.

[Kitoari]

Which one of these scenarios is a 'town controlled nuke':

1.) PLAYER nukes his gut scum read.
2.) PLAYER says he has a nuke, has feelings time, and after the consensus is decided upon

2 weeks later

nukes said target.

#2 because of the paper trail. The nuke provides instant information for the town who then is able to repeat or lynch with even more information before the NK.

Unfortunately your plan also gives scum the benefit of being able to go "bawww the consensus told me to" when they nuke town.

[Kitoari]

EBWOP: and that's not going to count the fact that pretty much any player will nuke once they've been nuked.

[Kitoari]

Only if you are unclaimed Gandalf. If you are trying to say that a claimed dayvig shouldn't be used as town, that is only an argument from scum.

You can't be sure that someone in this setup is silo/not silo until they post

NUKE: whoever

.

[Kitoari]

Only if you are unclaimed Gandalf. If you are trying to say that a claimed dayvig shouldn't be used as town, that is only an argument from scum.

You can't be sure that someone in this setup is silo/not silo until they post

NUKE: whoever

.

Yes well with everyone on board someone will claim silo to allow it to be used for the town; that is the sdame thing as launching and that's the same thing as a claimed dayvig.

ITT someone advocates a mass claim on..
Stuff:

DEFCON 3 we lynch, so D1
Then night, but no scum nk so 19 alive.
We lynch again at Defcon 2 (D1 still, essentially), 18 left.
Scum kill, 17 left.
Defcon 1, Essentially Day 2

.. Day 2. In a large.

[Kitoari]

Don't forget Kitoari... there are two scum factions. We will be losing 2 players a night starting on DEFCON 2.

Oh, duh.

I guess that makes Defcon 1 more like Day 3.

Still though.

[Kitoari]

what about it?

Hey, here's another example for someone wanting Cop...

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop
Silo in ICBM mode


What? Just cuz I put Silo at the end of an example doesn't mean I am making up a list for someone. It's an example... hell, maybe someone did put Silo 1st just because they don't want a PR. Is that what you are bent out of shape about?

Well ya. Your explanation is helpful but I can't see a situation where town should really put silo on their list and

definitely

not first. Not wanting a PR as town sounds pretty sketchy too -- I mean not wanting

any

of the PR's?? There is a huge concern of scum getting those PR's and taking silo is a big help there.

I know you've said that the town should be able to get the majority of the good power roles but putting silo in your list like you have doesn't seem to help achieve that...

You're forgetting that most every role will have been taken by the time your 4th/5th choice comes around.

[Kitoari]

what about it?

Hey, here's another example for someone wanting Cop...

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop
Silo in ICBM mode


What? Just cuz I put Silo at the end of an example doesn't mean I am making up a list for someone. It's an example... hell, maybe someone did put Silo 1st just because they don't want a PR. Is that what you are bent out of shape about?

Well ya. Your explanation is helpful but I can't see a situation where town should really put silo on their list and

definitely

not first. Not wanting a PR as town sounds pretty sketchy too -- I mean not wanting

any

of the PR's?? There is a huge concern of scum getting those PR's and taking silo is a big help there.

I know you've said that the town should be able to get the majority of the good power roles but putting silo in your list like you have doesn't seem to help achieve that...

You're forgetting that most every role will have been taken by the time your 4th/5th choice comes around.

And you know that how? Surely it

could

happen but that's no reason to cut off your list and

definitely

not a reason to put Silo on your list since its the default.

There's no practical difference between:
Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop

and

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop
Silo

[Kitoari]

Are you aware that there are 10 power roles?

Well, yes, but that's not really in response to my point.

Besides, have you considered the possibility that *GASP* nukes may be better than a PR sometimes?

Huh, who knew.

[Kitoari]

Then why did you discount 5 of the roles in your post?

You seem to be talking about something completely unrelated. I'm simply saying there's no difference between:

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop

and

Espionage
Radar
Fighter
Fail Safe
Eavesdrop
Silo

How does that imply anything about optimal lists?

[Kitoari]

Addressing your (apparently unrelated) point though, you said that there is no difference between the two lists. Placing silo where you have placed it creates a huge difference in relation to the other 5 roles that are available and for the above stated reasons.

But if you never put them on the list in the first place (list #1), list #1 is identical to list #2.

in other news, what about a mass sub/not sub claim?
1) If sub is claimed, we can keep them accountable for their nuke choices.
2) If it's not claimed, we can assume it's in scum hands and react accordingly.

[Kitoari]

The great attempted read list:

AurorusVox - Good stuff during D5, hasn't posted much D4.
Baby Spice - Town!
bobsnox - ... Who? He has 5 posts back from RFVS. Mod, can has prods?
bunnylover - Slight scum, 8 posts.
chesskid3 - chesskid is chesskid, aka attempting to annoy people for his own amusement. Can't be sure of his alignment.
danakillsu - Scum per Fate.
Faraday - Slight town.
Fate - Manufactured in Obvtownville.
gandalf5166 - Null. Gut's scum, but his posts are townish. Le sigh.
Internet Stranger - Trying WAAAY too hard to look town. It may or may not be genuine.
Jack - Null.
Jed Cooper - "WOE IS ME" scum.
Katsuki - Null, like the fact he came in with a read list.
Kitoari - Town, of course!
Percy - V/LA, move along.
RedCoyote - Town! (But I was wrong the last time I played with him.)
SocioPath - Null
SpyreX - Town if Jed is scum.
Toogeloo - Null.
VasudeVa - Null.

[Kitoari]

If I'm the sub, I know I'm sure as hell not claiming it.

[Kitoari]

I really can not see what PANDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA* is trying to do other than piss off fate at this point.
Percy upgraded to "Town!". I may not agree with everything he said but I do think he's town.
Gandalf5166 downgraded to slight scum. I missed the blatant AtE earlier (thanks, Percy!)

*Yes.

[Kitoari]

Dana's an easy wagon. I don't like just how many people jumped on that ship, and it makes me see dana as more town.

Unless you believe in some sort of conspiracy theory, his meta has no bearing on what role pm he drew.

[Kitoari]

Fate and Dana are playing to their Fate/Dana meta, respectively.

Surprising no one.

[Kitoari]

I already broke my recall button.
Once my nuke flies, the only place its going to land is on my communist target.

I'm the towniest town townie brownie you've ever seen! Town! Town! Toooooooooown!

Seriously IS, we get it. You wanna be town. You can stop now.

[Kitoari]

/prod dodge

Playing catchup now.

[Kitoari]

You went swinging after me when I jabbed at you the scumminess of a policy lynch, you jab at chess because he mentions not liking you in DEFCON 5. I'm sure anyone else who mentioned you at some point was called scum by you as well, though I would have to go back and check for sure.

So, I've seen this exchange far too often:

Person A makes poor case and vote on person B.
Person B points out why that case is poor, votes Person A.
Person A just yells "That's OMGUS," discrediting person B without really responding to the points against him.

This is a problem. It's not OMGUS if you make a scummy case on me and I vote you for that case. If you had made that case on another player, I would be voting you for the same reasons. But because your case was directed towards me, it's OMGUS and therefore invalid?

[Kitoari]

/prod dodge

Playing catchup now.

This was over 3 hours ago now... you got anything yet?

Also.

THREE WHOLE HOURS. DURING FINALS WEEK.

Yeah. Don't expect much content from me until friday but I'll get a post in when I can.

[Kitoari]

fos:bobsnox

756

So I'm scummy for calling IS out for an OMGUS FoS? Interesting...

interent stranger: theres prob nondanascum on the dana wagon, and IS' play has been fluffyu. ive bene hemmhawin on this read for awhile, but i finally had inspirtiaton about why he is scum. hes a reputabel player who hasnt played in what 7 years? and his play this game is to joke around contsantly, constantly, CONSTANTLY about americans and commies? i trealized he is probably triyn to avoid his best play so he can hide from kills from other teams, as that is a worry for scum that are experiecnes players.

bobsnox-minimialistic poster, scum avoidin spotlights

I'm voting for IS - a dude you think is scummy. Keep that in mind.

I agree with you, I must be town!
This is a good place to park my vote:
VOTE: Danakillsu

[Kitoari]

He is just jealous of what America stands for. Our freedoms, our rights. Those communist scumbags like Bobsnox are jealous about how good we have it here in the best country of the world. Why else would they want to come and attack us? Because they hate what we represent. Americans represent the best the world can ever have. We are here to represent and teach those communist masses what it means to be a real American. If we have to nuke hardcore communists like Bobsnox, then so be it.

In fact, Bobsnox, OMGUS.

Unvote: Dana
Vote: Bobsnox

Seriously this is getting on my nerves.

Sorry guys it is the last day of the pay period, I worked hard and I fell asleep.

I will devote myself to the following 3 goals:

1) Produce a catchup analysis of all relevant posts
2) Produce my top scum reads and ultimate vote
3) Clear up the various misreps on my "wagon"

On a quick skim, I am pleased by the rich and active content of town on this day.

Jed Cooper

has received his first prod.
Anyone else who hasn't posted is over 48 hours has a declared V/LA.

Unvote:
Vote: Jed Cooper

Well that's pretty funny. Not sure if I want to move my vote off dana though.

[Kitoari]

That's nice, I fos you and you turn around and cast suspicion on me for it in response.

bob: FOS Jack
Jack: FOS bob because he fos'd me
bob: that's kinda OMGUS you know
jack: OMG BOB IS OMGUSING ME

[Kitoari]

Are you guys serious? Look at what just happened! We put some pressure on Fate for his ridiculous "scumhunting" and what does he do? HE SWITCHES HIS VOTE! And people follow him again for some reason. This is exactly what a pressure wagon hopes to accomplish, and most of you are missing it. Fate is confirmed scum in my book.

PANDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA has been aggravating Fate since Defcon 5, and I think he was trying to engineer that on purpose. Personally I think Fate just snapped and PANDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is gonna try to make himself look like "oh poor me I call out fate and he tunnels me. i are sad panda" even though that's at the best a half-truth.

That's nice, I fos you and you turn around and cast suspicion on me for it in response.

bob: FOS Jack
Jack: FOS bob because he fos'd me
bob: that's kinda OMGUS you know
jack: OMG BOB IS OMGUSING ME

And what does this say about Jack?

He is either stupidscum or stupidtown. I'm trying to decide which.

[Kitoari]

I will accept no other lynch other than yours or mine.
Anyone not of Fate or me change your votes now please.

This remind anyone of another game?

Unvote, Vote: PANDAAAAAAAAAAAA

Actually that might not be accepted.

Unvote, Vote: Togeloo

[Kitoari]

Well I think everyone knows where I stand in this confrontation, so it's pretty much just a matter of waiting to see just how many people are blind enough to vote for Toogeloo instead of Fate.

I have two options:
- Vote for the person who's been intentionally aggravating a player all game to set up a lynch.
OR
- Vote for a player who ended up getting aggravated because of the first player and because of that I can't get a read on him.

Also if both SpyreX and Fate are mafia I will eat a thousand hats.

my gf just left. catching up now

Scumslip. Who's your godfather?

1) There is no godfather.
2) I

really

hope this post was a joke.

[Kitoari]

I saw it as you doing it (ie reminding him about hypnotists mafia). I'll reread D5 when I have time but I'm not up to ten pages at the moment to find out one piece of mostly trivial info.

In other news,

Kitoari confirmed for being dumb.

The irony is strong with this one.

[Kitoari]

Also if both SpyreX and Fate are mafia I will eat a thousand hats.

my gf just left. catching up now

Scumslip. Who's your godfather?

1) There is no godfather.
2) I

really

hope this post was a joke.

Do things like this really need to be argued? And now I see why sarcasm is lost on you people as well.

Presumably sarcasm about sarcasm doesn't travel well either.

how meta of me.

[Kitoari]

unvote

Chesskid3 lynch would be amazing. I'll throw a vote down after he contradicts himself some more.

[Kitoari]

Screw it, I'll drop the hammer.

Vote: Toogeloo

I'll hammer, since it's going to happen anyway, but before I do, I should say that I did not take Toog's scumclaim to be serious. But others seem to believe it is, and there's no way I'm convincing a group this dumb that it's not before midnight tomorrow. Well, here goes nothing.

unvote vote: Toogeloo

Aw I was beaten to it.

Kito is sad sad sad.

[Kitoari]

My god. I'm already aware that I'm giogn to be quicklynched tomorrow

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Kitoari]

That's the worst breadcrumb ever. It's not even a breadcrumb. You just picked words out of posts that happen to say what you wanted to.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p2624018
Now this, this is a breadcrumb. Read the first letters of every line.

[Kitoari]

Baby Spice has been posting in other games, but not this one.

BOO LURKERSCUM

[Kitoari]

vote: Fate

I told you not to lynch Toog, you kept after him anyway, and he eventually just claimed scum because he knew lynching him would be best for us even though he was town. It's time for you to pay up for your "scumhunting" methods.

One of the few relevant pages from the wiki is the Burden of Proficiency, which is what this is.

That being said, I do not like the chesskid wagon. I'm going to reread a few people.

[Kitoari]

/prod dodge

Catching up slowly.

[Kitoari]

Dang. Is that a lynch on Bunny already? That was FAST.

If it is, at least I'll have the night phase to catch up.

Again, sorry to everyone for my lack of contents.

[Kitoari]

Skimming today, it was mostly Fate catching bunnylover which I am inclined to agree with him. Chesskid wagon died, which I think is good for now. Small counterwagon formed on Fate, which seemed more like a "We don't like you" wagon than an actual scumread driven one.

Fate puts me on a need to die list.

Also,

I don't like how snakeplissen has managed to deflect all the attention away from himself after Jed's shenanigans, especially after citing something as a scum meta when it was actually a town meta. Him getting nuked tomorrow would not make me sad at all.

Just in case, VOTE: bunnylover

[Kitoari]

/prod pickup

See sig, returning on wednesday. Looks like I missed a few launches, hooray.

[Kitoari]

Requesting replacement. Pretty much everything started right when school started again, and my modding is killing me not counting my games.

Sorry.

[Kitoari]

Alm seems to be having trouble finding a replacement, so since my life has stabilized I will rescind my request for replacement.

Catching up now.

(Thanks so much! Saves me a lot of trouble. --AGM)

[Kitoari]

But first things first, since I wanna get some use out of this:

Nuke: danakillsu

Third time's the charm!

[Kitoari]

.................................................................
WHAT
THE
FUCK

So dana does something, you vote him, izzy does the same thing, you vote her, and then I nuke dana and apparently I'm the bad guy now?

I'm confused.

[Kitoari]

...

*headdesk*

That's what I get for doing shit before I actually read the damn thread.

[Kitoari]

I don't think it matters at this point, since I've wasted my shot for the day.

[Kitoari]

DOUBLE FAIL, THIS TIME WITH ACCOUNTS

WOW

For ease of iso:

I only realized the nuke was real right before THIS post:

...

*headdesk*

That's what I get for doing shit before I actually read the damn thread.

I really have nothing to say. It was completely idiotic and I have no idea what I was thinking.

[Kitoari]

KITOARI WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?

Remember what just happened over at coney island

yeah I haven't exactly been competent as of late

[Kitoari]

Yeah, it's obvious no one is going to believe me. I highly doubt that if I were watching someone else pull shit like this I would either.

FINAL READS LIST BEFORE I DIE DUE TO MY STUPIDITY:
AurorusVox
Word twisting. Dana fakenukes, I was implying izzy did the same thing (which I found out shortly afterwards was

not

the case.)

Not sure I like, but I've been reading him as town otherwise.

bobsnox
He's getting nuked, I think? I remember not liking him a while ago.

chesskid3
Leaning town. He has failsafe though, which bugs me.

danakillsu
Scum, probably.

DizzyIzzyB13
Def. Scum. Saying it was a fakenuke and then JUST KIDDING IT'S FOR REALS doesn't sit well with me.

Faraday
I remember having a read on him but I seem to have lost it.

Fate
My opinion of fate is going to be based mostly on how dana flips, but considering in all likelihood I'm not going to be AROUND when dana flips, null.

Jack
Leaning scum.

Kitoari
Stupid town.

Mina
Her reaction to me seems genuine. Town.

Percy
Town per leaks above me and eavesdrop.

SocioPath
Leaning town.

SpyreX
Leaning town.

So taking my scum reads and nulls to fill in the gaps, MY FINALSCUMLIST IS:
dizzy (Just because dana fakenuked doesn't mean you can claim to fakenuke and it turns out to be real.)
dana (Why would I have nuked him otherwise?)
Jack (interactions with bobsnox earlier seal the deal)
And finally I have three null, Fate/Faraday/bobsnox

[Kitoari]

This has probably been brought up already BUT:

inHimshallibe VasudeVa (Russian, Battleship) - Nuked Day 3

Fate was protected by a battleship.

Not sure I like this..

[Kitoari]

-I never saw the Dizzy case, until Dizzy wanted to kill me to somehow confirm something or other about my leaks. Chesskid has bet his reputation on Dizzy-scum, and I think it's kinda ridiculous. Overall, I wouldn't say no to a dead Dizzy, but there are other more prominent targets for me.

The data provided by all information roles is suspect until the alignment of the informant is determined. In this case, that would be you. Your alignment can only be determined by your death. The scum appear to have affected their QT usage to deal with leaks, meaning that any nore data you generate is highly likely to be useless for the town. Thus, town needs to know your alignment in order to properly evaluate the existing data. Thus, town would benefit from your death. That'sd a perfectly logical argument, thanks.

This post is awful for reasons already described.

VOTE: DizzyIzzu

[Kitoari]

Waiting for a dana flip.

Not much else to say regarding my nuke. It was me being a total idiot, and if you're not going to take it there's nothing more I can do to change your mind.

Standing by my previous read list.

[Kitoari]

For reference, here's me doing something else extremely stupid:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=15669
I was scum that game. However, in that case I fought my lynch tooth and nail.

In this case I'm just going to move on, because there's no other explanation then what I have given already.

P-edit: Why, exactly? I think he's town and I'm not going to revisit that unless dana flips town, meaning I'd have another scum in my town reads list.

[Kitoari]

In 6 hours.

[Kitoari]

Mina is making sense. The dizzy quickhammer looks really bad, especially after fate had been tunneling me so hard.

[Kitoari]

See sig, it's changed again - I'm sick as a dog currently.

I'm also completely booked on monday, but I should be back in full force by tuesday.

[Kitoari]

Requesting replacement.