Mini 1075 - Fishtown Mafia

[Empking]

/confirm

[Empking]

OK. This is a normal game, 11 players. We're mass claiming today right now. (Popcorning of course.) I'd like nocmen to start us up. (i'd like people to take into account the fact that since the death of the cop role I can only see good things from this.)

[Empking]

VOTE: Lrdwhyt because I can't pronounce his name.

Lord without the vowel, white.

What exactly is popcorning? And when did the cop die?

I claim, I pick who claims next they claim they pick the next person and so on.

I was talking metaphorically. There's a far less chance of there being a cop in this game than there were years ago.

[Empking]

OK. This is a normal game, 11 players. We're mass claiming today right now. (Popcorning of course.) I'd like nocmen to start us up. (i'd like people to take into account the fact that since the death of the cop role I can only see good things from this.)

Out of curiosity, why do you want nocmen to start?

He's best able to false claim (if he's scum).

HF: Do you understand the idea behind mass claim?

Lrd: It'd be better if we could all claim at once but we can't.

Vote: HF

Nonsense argument against the mass claim.

[Empking]

OK. This is a normal game, 11 players. We're mass claiming today right now. (Popcorning of course.) I'd like nocmen to start us up. (i'd like people to take into account the fact that since the death of the cop role I can only see good things from this.)

OK boss...I claaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaim...wait. You aren't the boss.

WTH are you trying to do?

I for one have nothing worth claiming, scum aren't going to claim, and any PR stupid enough to claim is just going to out themself into an easy NK. But I'm happy to listen to your rationale.

Or are you just looking for reactions to your request to work with?

I'm pretty sure that if he tells you it's purely for reactions, it doesn't get the desired effect.

As for the mass claim, I see no harm in it, although I'd be interested as to what good you think could come of it, Empking. Like havingfitz said, nobody is likely to claim anything other than VT, as a power-role claim is practically suicide, and a scum claim

is

suicide.

If we do mass claim, I would prefer to wait until everyone has confirmed.

Also,

Unvote: LrdWhyt

. We seem to be leaving the RVS fairly quickly, in my humble opinion.

No, everybody in town has to claim truthfully and we can then use the claims to work out who the falseclaim scum are.

I support massclaim because it'll help us win the game.
1. We force scum to take the guess now rather than running them up and then letting them get away with claiming a power role later.
2. We may be able to work out a breaking strategy or work out a role that wouldn't be in the game to allow us to lynch scum.
3. It lacks many problems. Town power roles are more numerous than they used to be and as such the classic argument against MC do not apply.

HF: Your argument "town will false claim in order to screw over the town" (or whatever reason you're using) is complete nonsense, that'ds not up for debate.

Noc is clearly the best player. If ou don't read old games then look at his join date.

[Empking]

Narrowing the lynching pool helps us working out the scum.
2. I presume we are in a balanced game. If two roles come together to make the game imbalanced then we can presume one of them is scum (a cop and a mason pair for instance)
3. Its not my reason for a claim. 1 and 2 are my reasons ffor wanting a claiming. That's merely to preemptively attacks arguments against mass claim.


You don't think experience is related to skill? At least the skill to know what is a reasonable mini normal set up?

[Empking]

In that case I'd suggest CA claim first.

There are advantages to mass claim and in all honestly I see very little disadvantages.

[Empking]

Yes but there are normally disadvantages which there aren't in this case.

Lrd; Very rarely to powerroles last to LyLo I'm of the opinion that if we don't claim then scum will already pick off our power roles. Its just this way we can try and stop them 9if we have any power roles).

[Empking]

What are you talking about...if there were no disadvantages to mass claiming, people would mass claim every game.

No they wouldn't. (They should but that doesn't translate into what actually happens.)

The disadvantage is that the mafia gets to know everyone's role. You don't know that there are no disadvantages in this game; initiating a mass claim off an unsubstantiated assumption is stupid.

The odds are very good that we won't be put into a worse position. That's just not the site meta any more.

They're just as likely as anyone else to last to LYLO if they're not blatantly obvious about it.

But they will be blatantly obvious about it. We won't get powerroles at then regardless of whether we claim or not.

[Empking]

Unless you're going to claim that MC at the beggining of D1 is impossible then the fact that it hasn't been done before doesn't prove a thing (either for or against).

(I'm not going to respond to HF until he stops wasting our time with stuff like "scum will falseclaim".)

[Empking]

AD: We know that MC will help. (the unrefutable logic I've given that's only been answered with "You're questions" or idiotic statements) So its only logical that I'd want a massclaim.

Can everyone agree that MC will:
Not have an impact on whether we have confirmed town in lylo.
Force scum into a position they'd rather not be in.
Give town greater information and allow them to better hunt for scum.

(Also since we know AD and HF are the scum we can get them to claim first.)

[Empking]

AD: We know that MC will help. (the unrefutable logic I've given that's only been answered with "You're questions" or idiotic statements) So its only logical that I'd want a massclaim.

Can everyone agree that MC will:
Not have an impact on whether we have confirmed town in lylo.
Force scum into a position they'd rather not be in.
Give town greater information and allow them to better hunt for scum.

(Also since we know AD and HF are the scum we can get them to claim first.)

If I wasn't convinced before that you aren't seriously arguing for a mass claim, I sure am now. How, in any way, was your logic irrefutable? Your asking for a mass claim was either a joke and you're not even trying, or you really want a mass claim, and you're hoping that no one will actually read your arguments.

1. As someone else said, no. Outing the roles means power roles die, thus decreasing the chances of having confirmed town in LYLO.
2. Depends on whether they're early in the mass claim or not.
3. Yes.

And if you do have an ulterior motive, do explain now. It seems obvious that no one is supporting a mass claim, so you may as well explain why.

Lrd:The last two points are in my favour (though I disagree that it requiresx thenm to be early in order to be put into a bad position) and we will not have confirmed town period. That's it.

I'm willing to drop suggesting MC but any argument put against me HAS to take into account the fundamental fact that MC is the best move for the town to make otherwise your delibrately helping scum.

[Empking]

The reason this is my first game proposing a mass claim is because I think early MC is the best case in Mini normals and just mini normals and even then only when its plain like this one. (themes are crazy and larges are VT's infected)

Everyuone, I want a mass claim because its the best play. Just for that reason.

[Empking]

So we can assume that in future games emp, you will constantly propose MC in mini normals?

.

You can.

[Empking]

AD; HF is my main suspect because his reaction to my MC idea didn't seem like honest reaction "town PRs will claim VT" SS is also either a VI or scum, leaning to VI though.

[Empking]

OK. This is a normal game, 11 players. We're mass claiming today right now. (Popcorning of course.) I'd like nocmen to start us up. (i'd like people to take into account the fact that since the death of the cop role I can only see good things from this.)

OK boss...I claaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaim...wait. You aren't the boss.

WTH are you trying to do?

I for one have nothing worth claiming, scum aren't going to claim, and

any PR stupid enough to claim is just going to out themself into an easy NK.

But I'm happy to listen to your rationale. Or are you just looking for reactions to your request to work with?

There's a far less chance of there being a cop in this game than there were years ago.

huh?

(bold mine)
Everyone: What dop you think of HF's premature vanilla claim?
DP: Can you vote HF then.

[Empking]

i feel like there's a bunch of people out there who haven't seen the princess bride and are misunderstanding the concept.


the point is, BOTH the glasses are poisoned.

WORD.

NO.

[Empking]

HF; How about you do some scumhunting rather than "prod avoidance" What are your thoughts on Singer?

[Empking]

HF: Give me an example of where I misrepresented you.

Also, this isn't about "scumhunting of note" its about "prod avoidance post" and "I have not made up my mind about Singer."

[Empking]

Will it never happen D1? I have seen players that are significantly better then pretty much everyone in the game pull similar BS on multiple occasions.

Give us one.

One of DavidParker and EMP are scum, probably not both. EMP is by far the most likely here for obvious reasons.

Which are?

[Empking]

MC has advantages AND disadvantages. My experience and my reading up on theory suggests to me that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

[Empking]

Yes but those hits aren't actual examples of misrep. Since I've show that they're not if you continue sayingh it you should either findf some new evidence or rebut my points.

[Empking]

Your implication with "scum won't claim and any PR stupid enough to claim is just going to out themself into an easy NK" Is that PRs won't be stupid enough to claim and in MC that's means a lie.

My reasons haven't changed.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Lrd

- We've gone through my reasons for mass claim. Remember, you agreed to two points of my reasoning and only disagreed with the point about the [non-existant] confirmed town. You are simply not being honest at this point.

[Empking]

1. A breaking strategy wasn't really one of my reasons to suggesting just a remote positive plus.
2. We wouldn't be only helping scum.
3. I think that nowadays, any powerroles we have would be more useful to help us crack the scum now (along with their help before getting nightkill'd) than keeping them hidden and hoping our tracker gets the scum taking the action (for example)

[Empking]

I've been saying let's go pass it for a long time now.

[Empking]

I've been saying let's go pass it for a long time now.

That still doesn't explain your behaviour.

I might have agreed with two of your reasons, but there are not more advantages than disadvantages at this point. That makes any point you have kind of moot, as it's

not

a good idea to mass claim.

Give me the three disadvantages then.

[Empking]

In case you didn't know, there are some people who push for an Empking policy lynch practically every game he plays in

This is not even remotely true.

Lrd: You said there were (at least) two disadvaantages. Either admit to lying or tell us them. Don't dodge the question.

[Empking]

Incognito: I don't remember, possibly. One game though, especially one with somebody who has a grudge against me isn't "practically every game".

Lrd; What querstion? (Seriously though. "

I'm

not dodging the question

you

are."?)

[Empking]

AD: When? Are you talking about Incognito's points because I was directly asked to respond to them.

[Empking]

@Incognito

: The issue with DP is not so much the "recklessness is a towntell" thing, that's true enough, but it's a minor tell at best. The real concern is how SURE he seems that EMP is town. My earlier comments in regards to their relationship stand.

@Empking

: viewtopic.php?p=2613039#p2613039, viewtopic.php?p=2612656#p2612656, viewtopic.php?p=2610154#p2610154, viewtopic.php?p=2605267#p2605267.


All after your 12th post where you mentioned you'd be willing to let it drop, there are all after that. Pretty much everything you've said is in regards to massclaim. I don't like how distracting you've been.

At least some of them are you mistaking catching Lrd out in a lie and talking about mass claim.

Lrd: I've answered that question almost once a page (possibly an exageration). Because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

[Empking]

If the advantages outweigh the disadvantages why do you feel that in none of these games a day 1 mass-claim occurs?

It goes against the general feeling (because before recently it was a bad thing) and its shot down just due to prejudice.

[Empking]

HF: Or Cruelty. Yes so far my scum reads have been on people that are against mass claim (AKA everyone) but I think there's an obvious reason for that (a clue is hidden in this very post)

[Empking]

Singer: Every player disagrees with me. Therefore all my scum reads must be on players that disagree with me.

I thought it had a chance so I had to attempt it.

[Empking]

I agree to the game dragging.

Vote: FA

- The only wagon with decent reasoning behind it.

[Empking]

[]b]FoS: AD[/b] There were no questions so yuou were just trying to mislead the town.

[Empking]

Yeah, I didn't see it. He's not worthy of a FOS. I'm not going to do his challenge though, as AD himself has stressed time and time again I'm the best player so I'll hunt in my own way.

Noc: The wagon on me I know to be false, the DP has poor reasoning behind it (no scum motivation).

[Empking]

Vote: Singer

[Empking]

Vote: Singer

I'm gunna have to ask you to explain this one, as it is highly anti-town.

How so?

(I'm voting you because you're acting like a VI but I don't think your a VI.)

[Empking]

Cor: DP was responding to HF.

Honestly, I'm not worried about DP because the action evberyone keeps going on about (the buddying) and the way he went about it wouldn't be done as town.

[Empking]

Explain.

[Empking]

Ah, sorry "wouldn't be done as scum" You could've pointed it our rather than force me to search for it.

Presuming it was a freudian slip rather than a simple mistake, is there any reason that I as scum would not be "worried about DP because the action evberyone keeps going on about (the buddying) and the way he went about it wouldn't be done as town."

[Empking]

Cor: In your few posts you've scumhunted mainly by slips of the tongues from other players. Are you able to provide a town game where you did that?

[Empking]

Incognito: If town wanted to lynch FA then surely regardless of FA's alignment scum wanted him to live.

[Empking]

Unvote

- I've read another game that Singer is in and I'm no longer convinced she's scum. (I think its playstyle)

Vote: Lrd

[Empking]

Unvote

- I've read another game that Singer is in and I'm no longer convinced she's scum. (I think its playstyle)

Vote: Lrd

You are all over the place with your votes.

I've voted two players today. That's hardly "all over the place".

Do you have a reason for voting Lrdwhyt?

He's a lurking liar.

[Empking]

Then I've vote four players all game. Again, hardly all over the place.

[Empking]

I agree fully with corvuus's first post. However, his permutation post really bugs me. How is Emp and DP both town work out with them? You explain two, and both scum seems fairly obvious, but both town you make no explanation or attempt to explain that, and by sheer probability, you need to assume that as the most likely case. It's weird though given his conclusion, that if Emp was town, why would he worry about DP buddying him?

Actually, did Emp ever have an issue with DP buddying him and thinking that Emp is town?

I didn't.

Lrd: Your lack of posts today made you a lurker and we've already discussed how you lied.

[Empking]

Cor: The reasoning on DP didn't take into account that there was no scum motive for DP's actions. They may have been poor play or possibly anti-town but they weren't scummy. The decent reasoning on FA was the reaction to mass claim.

HF: 4 votes is not a lot. We've got a lo of inactives and tunelling players in this game, that's the only reason that even a tunelling player like yourself raises an eyebrow at four votes.

Also, I absolutely acknowledge Singer several time vore today. I said she was one of my main suspects when asked Day 1.

I think its very weird that you don't understand other players changing their reads ("Why didn't you vote HF despite finding him scummy early D1") I didn't vote Lrd because we went through it yesterday about how nobody else looked at him like I do and since he was only slightly worse than Singer I went to the most popular wagon.

HF: You call my vote on Lrd "OMGUS" do you consider lying and lurking scum tells? If so, why don't you believe I also do.
You call my vote on FA "self preservation". Several players in this game wanted a good lynch, why don't you think I share the same viewpoint.

[Empking]

HF: It seems to me that you're saying that changing my reads on players is scummy. Is that correct? What's scummy about it?

1. When did I say that Lred was being dishonest about not wanting a massclaim?
2. Are you honestly trying to say that "Yes." is not an agreement?
3. Do you know what OMGUS is? If so, are you dishonestly claiming I'm doing it in order to dishonestly get me lynched?
4. Other than myself who is scum?
5. You're trying to paint it as me trying to lynch scum by voting FA is a bad thing (The lynch had to be me (I know is town), DP (a strong town read) or FA (leaning scum)). Do you think that your play of being a stubborn tunnelling player and not voting FA is the right course of action for town to take?

DP-scum gets lynched due to 'easy-lynching', causes EMP to be lynched in response.

My experience of the game causes me to doubt that would happen (plus there's my general view of DP being town).

[Empking]

The problem is that in this specific game, the deadline rules are not a simple plurality or a 'if no majority lynch, then no deadline lynch'. It is based on # of players voting and majority of that. Which was not understood, etc. so it is mostly null since any conclusion on how people voted, etc. is not a strong indicator of anything since I think the majority of players here thought it would be a deadline lynch.

That doesn't wash. By the end of Day 1 it was clear to everybody that we needed to lynch FA or there would by a No Lynch at deadline. There was confusion but it was cleared up in time.

Unvote

Vote: Cor

I'm going to follow what wise player whose name I forget and say that if nobody else sees it then its probably not there with regards to Lrd.

[Empking]

I think DP is town because I don't see the scum motivation for his actions. I think you're scum because of FA's changing reactions to mass claim (mostly) and the fact that you weren't lynched at the end of D1.

[Empking]

VLA for the turkey holiday, mainly next 2-3 days

EMP and then Rhinox still need to be lynched. Not much else left to say.

EMP: You still need to remark on your post #43 (isolation)

eh no I don't. If you think there's something off about the post bring it up.

I do like how you really really wanted to vote me but went through a long round-about way before doing so,

Evidence please.

Why didn't you vote me earlier given the (failed) case you are citing?

I didn't vote you earlier because I wanted a vote on Lrd to encourage others that had their doubts about him on D2 to be encouraged to vote him.

[Empking]

LW = lrd?

[Empking]

I know that's all hard to follow, and it's not my preferred method of doing things, but with 15 pages to go over all at once, it's the most economical without skipping too much.

I'm tempted to put a vote on cruelty, myself. I don't think he's gotten very much attention as of yet.

I should mention here that in flipping through the archives, I realized that one of the last games I played over a year ago was with empking,

Would you mind linking me to it?

[Empking]

DP: Why?

[Empking]

HF: Why is cruelty worst that Lrd?

[Empking]

Oh yeah. Lrd and Cor.

[Empking]

Lrd: Youb said "disadvantages" when you couold only think of one "disadvantage" this is scummy because it suggests that he wasn't really thinking about what he was saying or, more likely, he wasn't thinking about what he was saying with a town motivation.
Also, the accusation that I haven't voted Lrd is clearly a lie.
What is lurking?

[Empking]

Wow. I really want to hammer after that post. But themn I remember that the reason I've got a town read on her is that she sucks as town

[Empking]

----

EMP: Do you still want me as a lynch today, or will you unvote/fight it out if we are still around tomorrow?


C

Yes I still want your lynch.

[Empking]

I agree with the general sentiments that we need a lynch. I also think strongly that that lynch should be on Cor. So, Singer; vote Corv.

[Empking]

Actually,

HF: Want to jump to Lrd?Better day 2 than day 3.

[Empking]

Vote: Noc

Its pretty clear that he's scum with Cor but he has a vote and Cor doesn't.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Corv

[Empking]

OK, I see emp has now put Corv at L-1. It's no surprise you're voting him, but what's the rush?

No rush, just no delay.

[Empking]

HF: What changed with Corv and Noc?
How was my change of vote flippant? I said I wanted to see Corv or Noc lynched. I took the blunt course of action to try and see that happen. We're on D3 without a single decent lynch and flipping around like a fish doesn't seem to solve that problem.

[Empking]

HF: What changed with Corv and Noc?
How was my change of vote flippant? I said I wanted to see Corv or Noc lynched. I took the blunt course of action to try and see that happen. We're on D3 without a single decent lynch and flipping around like a fish doesn't seem to solve that problem.

In that you just put it out there with no reasoning. I realize you have been focused on corv/FA for most of the game but if you are really suspicious of both of them what was wrong with the 3 person wagon you were currently sitting on (Noc)?

1. Noc was never my preferred choice.
2. The corv wagon was bigger (excluding myself)

In post 504 you invite me to start a wagon on Lrd (who you were voting earlier for 'lying' [which I did not see] but then backed off because of..."if nobody else sees it then its probably not there with regards to Lrd.". Now you are willing to start a Lrd wagon for what reason?

Because you expressed a sentiment that I interpreted as you seeing it.

[Empking]

Noc: Because you'rte clearly scum with Corv and you had the wagon.

[Empking]

Cor, have you claimed?

[Empking]

Fehnl: What things about Singer?
Why are they scummy?

[Empking]

Why emp and not someone else, like DP?

As I said earlier, the massclaim thing and the votehopping add to the case. I will still look at DP's ISO after the backwards read.

What votehopping?

[Empking]

When you later change your mind again and no longer think that LrdWhyt is scummy,

When was that?

And when you unvote you always directly vote someone else. To me, this screams "scum".

Now that's just clutching at straws.

[Empking]

When was that?

In your ISO #50. Or am I misrepresenting that?

No, I'd just forgotten about that.

Now that's just clutching at straws.

Sorry, I am not familiar with this idiom. Could you please explain what you mean?

Unvoting just to vote again straight after doesn't even approach being a scum tell.

[Empking]

Is anybody willing to hammer Corv?

[Empking]

Finally, there's today, Emp has been calling me town all game for my early game behaviour (which had no scum-motivation), but today, when there's 2 wagons, sure he's consistent in voting the Corv wagon, but he has stopped mentioning how he finds me town. Early game it suited him to call me town, now if he's scum (and me+corv are town which i suspect is true), by easing off calling me town, he's effectively setting up both our lynches for today and tomorrow. In fact, he's probably settling for my lynch today and has done nothing to state how he still finds me town or try stop my lynch if he thinks i'm town. This just doesn't sit right. If I was town and had a strong town read on someone at this point in the game, i would definitely be trying to defend them or at least trying to show people why your case (on corv) is stronger.

Where would I say you were town? What hass anybody posted that would lead me to have to say you were town. Everybody is aware of my town-read on you so there's no point mentioning it. Why would I have to defend you? A blind monkey could tell you're not the lynch for today. you haven't even been wagonned to a claim.

[Empking]

Because me being at L-1 before and looking to go back there, clearly shows I'm not the lynch for today?

Years of experience shows you're not the lynch for today. The undecided (Rhinox) would have to be an idiot to vote you over Corv considering he finds both of you equally scummy but Corv produces a greater quantity and superior quality of information.

[Empking]

Who do you think is scum when/if corv flips town?

HF, Fehnl, Noc

[Empking]

UNVOTE: Empking

While I think Corvuus is scum, I don't think we have suddenly found

three

scum in this voteswapping incident. Nocmen's explanation that he wanted to prevent a no lynch makes perfect sense. However, DavidParker does not have such an excuse. Take a look at post 489.

I realize this is post deadline, and as it stands there are 2 prominent wagons the singer and Coorvus wagon so I'll move my vote to try make sure a nolynch doesnt happen. ANtihero gets off today!

Vote: Coorvus

DavidParker explicitly states that he votes Corvuus to prevent a no lynch. Then at post 501, he swaps to Singersigner, making it 4-4 even. What happened to 'making sure a no lynch doesn't happen'?

Awesome case. That, and after ISOing DavidParker I know that he is also votehopping. So seeing that the deadline is close and I won't have anymore time until deadline I am jumping on the wagon.

VOTE: DavidParker

Awesome

case.

Awesome

case.

Awesome

case.

Awesome

case.

[Empking]

By my count, corv and emp are both on L-2.

Your ability to count to three is quite impressive.

[Empking]

Because me being at L-1 before and looking to go back there, clearly shows I'm not the lynch for today?

Years of experience shows you're not the lynch for today. The undecided (Rhinox) would have to be an idiot to vote you over Corv considering he finds both of you equally scummy but Corv produces a greater quantity and superior quality of information.

So what do your "years of experience" and the fact you are the "best player" think of the fact you might be the lynch for today? Do you think the "undecided rhinox" would join in your lynch over Corv?

I think the "undecided Rhinox" is an intelligent fellow and wouldn't join a quick lynch over a lynch that's more likely to hit scum and produce better information (even more so if he's smart enough to notice that Fehnl has gone from thinking you had a "great case" against you from following you wherever you lead. (The only thing that changed between those posts being which way he thought was best to save Corv.)

[Empking]

@Emp...a lynch on you this close to deadline would not be a quicklynch considering all those on your wagon have been expressing suspicions towards you previously and with reason (iirc).

1. Give me a quote with regards to DP's previous suspicion.
2. Define "a quicklynch".

[Empking]

Emp, what makes you think a near-deadline quick lynch doesnt give us much information?? We can see how willing people are to get on the wagon. there's those who have found you consistently scummy (fehnl and HF) who will obviously jump on then there's the question of whether other people will think of it as a viable option opposed to the corv wagon.

A Quickwagon is a fount of information. I've used it myself this very game to give another reason for why Fehnl is scummy McScumscum. A quick lynch on the other hand with the hamerring vote tells us absolutely nothing this close to deadline.

In fact, a last-minute quicklynch is something scum can't really manipulate in their favor,

That's a joke right? Tell me that's a joke.

[Empking]

Though part of me wants to vote Corv with a "die suck die" I don't want to be in MyLo and not vote for my main suspect.

Vote: Fehnl

[Empking]

Neko: Do you want, when the time is right, Haylen lynched?

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Corv

I'm rather sure that we're not in MyLo.

[Empking]

Why corv over fenhl all of a sudden? YOu seemed rather convinced that fenhl was scum...

Fehnl is scum. But if I can't get a Fehnl lynch I might as well go for the other likely scum.

[Empking]

I disagree with no-lynching. I don't think we are in mylo right now. 9-3 12p mini normals are historically imbalanced in favor of scum. In order to be in mylo right now, this would have to be an 8-3 11p game, which in theory should be even more unbalanced in favor of scum. There hasn't been any extra kills, so a thrid party killing role is out of the question. Being a normal game, any other anti-town third party non-killing roles won't be in here. All of this points to the setup being 9-2. Remember Llama, this was an 11p game to start. NOT a normal 12p.

This.

[Empking]

VT

Llama

[Empking]

Masclaim would've helped the town because it would've given us the kick not to no lynch and it would also have allowed us to go through the game bearing in mind that we only had two scum.

Also, FA is scum for not following his conviction. He thinks I'm town for the proposal? Good. He's against it? Fine. Going from one to the other? Scum.

[Empking]

OK, I'm willing to admit that I was probably wrong about Fehnl due to Llama's very town recent play. This means that the odds are pretty good that Haylen is scum but the odds are still better with Corv (plus Corv is a more informative lynch.)

[Empking]

Haylen; Are you planning on voting Corv?

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Hayl

[Empking]

You should've voted Corv (whatever your alignment).

[Empking]

Vote: NL

[Empking]

Vote: No Lynch

- Scum have more to lose from a draw than we do.

[Empking]

Llama'as and Neko's continued life makes me a bit paranoid but unless the scum team is both of them (in which case very well done to you). I think it'd be better to lynch DP or Corv. I vote Corv. At the very least the fact that he hasn't self-hammered when he found out he was was scummy player no.1 is a point off his favour.

[Empking]

Self-hammering isn't town,

It would be if you've costed us the game by not self-hammerring.

and saying point off his favour has to be something i have never heard before in human language.

And that makes me scummy, how? (you did list it as an option.)

Since it is lylo, why don't you put in some effort and make a case on players instead of whatever it is you are doing.

Like you?

[Empking]

So Emp, is there any other reason you're choosing Corv over DP, since the self-hammer is all you really mentioned?

The same reasons that were give day 1 still apply, as do those given in day 2 as do those... you get the picture.

[Empking]

V/LA this Saturday

[Empking]

OK the fact that Corv's wagons are so over-whelmingly town makes me supremely confident on his being scum.

[vb]Vote: Corv[/b]

[Empking]

Vote: Corv

[Empking]

1. Lrd was a lying lurker.
2. Corv's partner could be anybody still alive (other than myself) to be quite frank. I'd rather not give the scum info on who' I think the other scum is.

[Empking]

OK, I'm not going to lie here. Very, very good play be Neko and very, very, very good oplay by LF.