Reckamonic's Ocarina of Time Mafia..OVER! Was Hyrule saved?

[Substrike22]

/confirm

Sup people.

[Substrike22]

VOTE: chesskid3

You're not contributing in any meaningful way. Jester?

Also, I was always a Squirtle guy, so fuck your super effective bullshit.

are you really taking a page four claim seriously?

QFT.

I agree with Ythan on the Mothrax point, I think that deserves clarification.

I also fail to see JaBOC's scuminess.

[Substrike22]

Yeah that one.

[Substrike22]

Still think he's jester. Like he's really going out of the way to not say anything relevant, at this point.

[Substrike22]

Of course I'm saying that with my vote on him...

[Substrike22]

Chess to address the issue, my vote started as rvs. Now its not.

[Substrike22]

I don't understand why guessing an anti-town player clearly either a) very bad or b) trying to get themselves lynched doesn't warrant me pointing out the possibility of a jester. This would be my first game with that type of role (only done newbie games til now) and therefore I am calling it how I see it. Someone explain to me how pointing out a jester is anti-town?

Secondly, Chess is just digging his own grave deeper. Trying to keep up with the Ythan-Chess argument is kind of annoying considering most answers posts are one-sentence-long responses. It's distracting from the rest of the game and we will be better off tomorrow.

For instance, look at Le Cupcake's posts and tell me how he's contributed anything other than appearing to be active? All he did was ask one pointless question about why someone found him scummy. Everything else consists of some variation of a lol or roflcopter.

P-edit: Ninja'd by above 9 posts.

[Substrike22]

I don't understand why guessing an anti-town player clearly either a) very bad or b) trying to get themselves lynched doesn't warrant me pointing out the possibility of a jester. This would be my first game with that type of role (only done newbie games til now) and therefore I am calling it how I see it. Someone explain to me how pointing out a jester is anti-town?

Secondly, Chess is just digging his own grave deeper. Trying to keep up with the Ythan-Chess argument is kind of annoying considering most answers posts are one-sentence-long responses. It's distracting from the rest of the game and we will be better off tomorrow.

For instance, look at Le Cupcake's posts and tell me how he's contributed anything other than appearing to be active? All he did was ask one pointless question about why someone found him scummy. Everything else consists of some variation of a lol or roflcopter.

P-edit: Ninja'd by above 9 posts.

I don't understand the Jester talk.
Chess needs to be eliminated. That way the town can actually get some damn reads on people and get the person who will probably fuck town up out of the way.

It's my understanding that lynching a Jester either meets that person's win condition, or penalizes the town (or person who lynches them) in some way if they're lynched? I feel that should be pointed out. Just going off of what the wiki says.

I do want Chesskid dead, my vote's there, but I was hoping with someone with some experience in dealing with Jester's might say some sort of warning if it was needed. If not, lynch away.

[Substrike22]

I don't know what the probability is, and as long as there's not likely to be a penalty to the rest of us, the reason I brought it up in the first place becomes irrelevant.

More than ready to have him gone at this point.

P-edit: So in otherwords, Chess, you have a bodyguard. Your problem with that theory is that no one died when Cupcake got saved.

[Substrike22]

Not to mention that the idea of Chesskid not target Ythan or someone else like LLambda is rather remote. Particularly if his ability does anything other than what he claims it does. I agree with BE, there are too many assumptions in that game plan that are unrealistic based on his attitude for the first 22-25 pages.

[Substrike22]

EBWOP: targeting*

[Substrike22]

I honestly understand your frustration, he was being very direct and attitudes went out of control on both sides, in my opinion. The overall dialogue was distracting for scum hunting, period. However, it did reveal some interesting tidbits for day 2 analysis. That being said, I found you scummier than Ythan during the dialogue. While I agree that he was invalidating your arguments in a frustrating way at points, he also had some valid points about deflection and WIFOM arguments. I'm not going to sit here and make personal attacks, you yourself said you were new, and personally I don't think that you were as bad as Ythan was making you out to be. But overall, you're my scummiest read right now, and saying something like "fuck you guys, I'm going to get modkilled" (dunno if that's the exact quote, I can't find it) is something that needs to be taken care of. Sorry.

[Substrike22]

1. Chess no you are not cleared. You are not D1 lynch material, but you will suicide before lylo if you don't die now. The only reason you shouldn't be a vig target/lynch wagon is because of your role. It makes you conformable in other ways. Your game play alone is grounds on vigging.

Even if Nikanor is claiming a cop innocent result on you

it does not exclude investigation immune roles

. Also the mod claimed

that it's possible that he could lie in our PMs in terms of Mason confirmed alignment

Dram did that in CEBM, and this element is possible. where the light baku was actually a 3rd party lyncher. The baku was confirmed via mason link to 2 players as town aligned. The truth was stretched since the light baku was lyncher to the dark baku an SK.

2. Exlion, write out a hypo redirector in both scum/town Chess in both scum/town redirection scheme. The absurdity that Chess' ability goes awry either means: Chess is telling the truth or scum redirects to cause other people to lose their powers, killing chess. Considering the suicide element of Chess' claim is key, we can verify it.

3. Substrike, do you know what the Cucco is doing? It reads first as a hot potatao (which should be redirected to the mod if Zwets vote goes through). Otherwise the hint here:

And that last person is kinda right. After staring intensely at each of you, the Cucco spread its wings and jumps on Substrike22.
He tries to defend himself, but it's no use and the Cucco decides to firmly attach itself to his head.
...

With a Cucco on the head, let's just say he's not very credible..

.

Suggests a vote mechanic change. See in bold. My 2 cents.

3. Nik claimed a sane investigative role information about chess.

No but I'm afraid to post in fear that it'll blow up on me or start pecking at my eyes, or something.

Anyways. I'm going to assume for now that Nik's not full of crap, so,
UNVOTE: CK3

I'll go to my #2 suspect, in terms of active lurking:
VOTE: Le Cupcake

...Let's see if that vote matters.

[Substrike22]

@ Mod : Requesting vote count

[Substrike22]

I want my vote back.

But seriously can we get a Cupcake wagon, please. He's active lurking scum.

Thank you for above vote, BE.

Also if anyone has chicken slaying abilities now would be a good time. If it's not too much trouble...

[Substrike22]

I'm not vanillizing tonight, for like the nth time. If it ever gets to the point where you guys want me to vanillize, I'll vanillize chosen targets, but N1 odds are i'll hit two town.

I think thats the point. The two people who are asking for vanillize either have roles that fails, or a role that has a restriction on them or others.

Didn't YOU offer to be vanillized?

No, I actually like my ability.

Guys we found the SK

or cop, or doctor, or mafia...

[Substrike22]

Gandalf what policy are you employing? And so help me if you mention VI...

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Also please address Kdub's point.

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OK, I'll admit I've glossed over the details of Ythan/LLD/Cupcake's argument, but is there any case against Cupcake that

doesn't

involve flavor speculation? It's not conclusive evidence at all. Even if Nayru isn't aquatic in canon, then 1) why would scum-Cupcake even claim aquatic as part of the fakeclaim in the first place, and 2) there has been reasonable evidence presented of the possibility of Nayru actually being aquatic that accusing the claim of being fake on that basis becomes entirely a matter of outguessing the mods.

So is there any reason to suspect Cupcake based on behavior or anything other than speculation about her claim?

Before all the random speculation I was/am voting Cupcake based on active lurking, but now that this has turned into a flavor speculation clusterf*** I really am kind of lost as to who is scum. That combined with the fact that Ythan's mostly pro-town arguments are based around running people's emotions into the ground and I don't know how much actual scum hunting has gone on. It feels like we've gone 65 pages and not a whole lot's been accomplished outside of two insult-laden fights between Ythan and Chess, and Ythan and Lambda, with an occasional all caps post from Fate. -_-

[Substrike22]

Picking up prod.

I did vote cupcake for lurking. I haven't had anything to say. There's been a completely worthless back and forth regarding flavor speculation, of which I don't have anything to add. I think a lot of people here can sympathize with that. My vote stays on Cupcake, I think she's acted the most legitimately scummy out of everyone and I haven't seen much else that's been scummy. Ythan's pissing me off with the way he talks to people, as is Fate, but that doesn't make them scummy. I think it distracts from real scum hunting, but they seem to differ in opinion in that regard. I'll read Ray's arguments and get a post up again later tonight. I've noted contradictions in Gandalf's play as well, so I'd be willing to switch my vote over there after I get a chance to iso, but for now I'll leave it on Cupcake.

[Substrike22]

Posts 60-61, 67: Ythan Coattail
Posts #121, 123: After real discussion has started, she still proceeds to post two meaningless posts.
Posts 232, 234: Again. Also, the hypocricy in post 234 is noted. Cupcake is right in that her iso didn't consist of 35 BS anti-town statements. That was because her iso had nothing at all.
Post 238: Overreaction to a seemingly not-so-serious accusation, from Chesskid, who had 0 credibility at the time.
Posts 241, 308, 313: More no content posting.
I'll give her 321 cause I was thinking the same thing.
Post 388: First real, seemingly genuine pro-town comments.
Post 443, 444, 449: More of the same.

This cycle continues for the remaining 40 pages. I can continue to go post-by-post but I think my point is clear. It's active lurking, which I find the scummiest of all tactics. Period.

GIS's contradictions were noted, and you bolding it as a contradiction is putting words in my mouth. I find that at least some of their contradictions are from twin VI hydra play. I'm not saying they're not a good choice for a lynch, I'm saying Cupcake is better. Cupcake is scum, GIS would be closer to a policy lynch for me at this point.

[Substrike22]

the above post by post is for cupcake, sorry I didn't put that at the top of the post.

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I didn't Iso, nor did I re-read past the pages with posts 443 444 and 449 on them. Might have something to do with me missing that but I don't have an infinite amount of time to re-read 62 pages.

[Substrike22]

5. Substrike. You hadn't had anything to say except you think Cupcake is scummy in your own reasonings outside the flavour analysis. Your contradiction between flavour noise and scum arguments is weird here since the majority of the posts have been this "noise you've been reading". Post here. You also talk about play style not being an indicator of alignment... which is nice except it support's Rayfrost's argument:

So what? What's the point? What are these scum arguments?

I'm not sure what you mean by "noise you've been reading". Clarify? I fail to see the contradictions in my posts. I'm ignoring most of the flavor arguments and I haven't participated in them myself, because I feel they distract from scum hunting. How is this a contradiction from anything I've said?

Play style isn't always an indicator, but I don't see any argument involving Cupcake's "play style" from me. I've argued that Ythan's bullying of people is not an indicator of alignment, but I generally find someone who posts 20 times and makes exactly 1 semi-relevant post to be as "active lurking" as it gets, for example with Cupcake.

[Substrike22]

Substrike:

You're voting Cupcake solely for active lurking? What do you think of his/her softclaim? Cupcake has 92 posts, whereas you have 24. Again, why do you think his/her active lurking is worse than your own?

24 posts with content > 12 posts of content + 80 completely irrelevant ones. (content for her increased a little during the LLD argument, imo)

I don't know why you'd use a protect all ability on day one, assuming we're buying the role claim. And I don't buy a "why not" as an answer to "why". There are clearly all sorts of flavor speculations jumping around right now and hers is just adding fuel to the fire. The fact is, I agree with the people suggesting that there may be safe claims given to scum.

I don't see what I've been doing as active lurking. I've picked my case, made it, and I don't have a good reason to move my vote at this time. If all the other town reads I have want to lynch GIS today, fine. But Cupcake is scum and that's where my vote will be. GIS warrants a (preferable) vig or (not-preferable) investigation, given the VI Hydra status.

[Substrike22]

But saying their claim is absolute crap based off of the fact it includes "aquatic" as an elemental qualifier is not sound. At all.

It's less dismissing every reference to flavor and more saying we

LACK THE INFORMATION

necessary to make any real connections regarding the flavor we do have. It's worthless to speculate about flavor at this point when there's virtually no information to go off of in the first place - it's distracting and detracts from the actual scumhunting.

Evidence: the MANY pages of noise generated from your push at cupcake where you reiterated the same argument over and over.

Whether or not the blue particles are nayru's love is indeterminate at the moment. It's something to be left alone due to the lack of any real support for either side as more true.

That said, GIS is scum. This lynch needs to happen.

Bolded quoted for truth, because that's what I've been trying to get at.

[Substrike22]

Top wagon is that thing of fail that is the GIS wagon.

I don't know why you'd use a protect all ability on day one, assuming we're buying the role claim. And I don't buy a "why not" as an answer to "why". There are clearly all sorts of flavor speculations jumping around right now and hers is just adding fuel to the fire. The fact is, I agree with the people suggesting that there may be safe claims given to scum.

While we're still going for the top lynch, I'd like to show everyone that his reasons just flipped from "Active lurking" and not posting good content to "Well, I agree with Ythan's arguement that her claim is shit and I am voting her for active lurking". The catch is he's only mentioned active lurking until now. Why? He doesn't want to be outed early on. Now, if you AGREE that there are safe claims, then why would you vote for someone based on their claim? To push a mislynch. "Hers is just adding fuel to the fire". Oh, so another reason that you're pushing her lynch is to eliminate flavor speculation? That makes sense.

Yo LL, are you voting GIS based on solely a contradiction? Are there any other reasons you think he may be scum?

No, my vote is still there for active lurking. You asked me what I thought of the claim, so I told you. If you want me to link you to your own question, I'll be happy to do so, but I figure you can go look it up yourself. I answered the question that you asked, giving my opinion on the question you asked, and now you're saying that's scummy? That's suspicious in and of itself.

Ythan's guess at Cupcake's claim is just as good as Cupcake's claim, due to the theory that Scum have safe claims. Therefore it's a null on my vote. I'm inclined to side with Ythan on a "what I would do" basis, but that's a WIFOM argument. Therefore, my vote is on Cupcake for her active lurking. 96 posts, most without content. = scum.

[Substrike22]

Well given the overwhelming amount of evidence that Cupcake is an (Alignment confirmed?) mason, I'll take my vote off of that.

UNVOTE: Cupcake

And given that we're approaching deadline, I'll go to the most popular wagon other than myself.

VOTE: GIS

The contradictions in the play could be hydra or scum. It's worth finding out, since that's really all I've got without some information.

[Substrike22]

ebwop: I see in LLD's posts that Masons are guaranteed alignment confirmed, so just remove the (?) from the above post.

[Substrike22]

Chess your arguments against me for the last 5-6 posts have been "omg sub is so mafia, btw I'm 12 pl0x vote for him cause I can use l337 speak." At least build an actual case, like LLD. It might have some logical fallacies about it, but at least she has some valid reason to argue that I may be scum, past attempting to jump on a wagon covertly.

[Substrike22]

You argue that my jester speculation contained contradiction, which I give you and it was me being stupid. There is no fallacy in that argument, it's logically based.

The second argument, however, that my Cupcake argument is crap, isn't fair. Cupcake looked scummy for the first 30-40 posts, and then started posting actual posts during flavor speculation. I didn't believe that contributing to a flavor speculation debate was in any way helpful until I saw your relationship with Nik and Cupcake. It's obvious that Cupcake was attempting to defend the group without claiming the group, so I get that now. But at the time, you have to understand that it looked like Cupcake was just arguing a random point, that someone brought up, because it would help Cupcake look more like a contributing, scum hunting townie. I don't mind people who passively lurk, as we all have lives. But when someone's making 10-20 posts with what appears to be no content, that strikes me as a very scummy maneuver.

Additionally, the reason I kept re-iterating my point is because I was continually questioned on it, by a variety of people. I would've been content with stating it just once, but people were beginning to say I was lurking and therefore needed to defend my position. Now that I have a new set of information, my position is obviously re-evaluated.

As you've said, I make valid arguments and I'm making valid attempts at assembling trains of thought. It seems, however, that the only pro-town point you made (that one) gets footnoted to the rest of the argument, when in my opinion it should be given equal weight.

[Substrike22]

By "you" I mean LLD. When I started writing the post, her's was right above mine...

[Substrike22]

I'm trying to read to catch up, and I don't really have all that much to add from before. I think the best lynch today is GIS, given the Masons claim by Cupcake. We're within 24 hours, we need to get the remaining two votes.

[Substrike22]

Since I agree with fate that I've probably got a decent probability of being viged, If you want a full claim, here it is:

I am Rauru, one of the ancient Sages...

Welcome to Ocarina of Time Mafia, Substrike22. You are Rauru. You are the one who originally dubbed Link the “Hero of Time”, so that’s gotta count for something! The land of Hyrule is under attack from certain evil, so it’s time to drag your elderly ass out to the battlefield and help repel the evildoers!

Race: Hylian
Faction: Hero

You are the Sealed Light Sage. You have the following special abilities:

Passive Abilities:
Sacred Realm - While you are sealed in the sacred realm, you are able to communicate with the other sages. They are not alignment confirmed. You may still post and vote in the game thread as normal while you are sealed.
Sage of Light - In order to release your medallion and break your seal, Ganondorf must die. You will gain your true abilities if this happens, though you will no longer be able to communicate in the sacred realm.

Active Abilities:
None

Please remember that you can use only one active ability per phase.

Win Condition (Hero): You win when all threats have been eliminated and the land of Hyrule is safe once again.

[Substrike22]

That was my role pm, I dunno what you're talking about with the no quote thing. And yes I do, but I'm not going to out who they are, for obvious reasons, although to have one of them vouch for me would be nice. Suffice to say we all have similar conditions for unlocking our abilities.

[Substrike22]

Here you are, I found the "quote" button.

I am Rauru, one of the ancient Sages...

Welcome to Ocarina of Time Mafia,

Substrike22

. You are

Rauru

. You are the one who originally dubbed Link the “Hero of Time”, so that’s gotta count for something! The land of Hyrule is under attack from certain evil, so it’s time to drag your elderly ass out to the battlefield and help repel the evildoers!

Race:

Hylian

Faction:

Hero

You are the

Sealed Light Sage

. You have the following special abilities:

Passive Abilities:

Sacred Realm

- While you are sealed in the sacred realm, you are able to communicate with the other sages. They are not alignment confirmed. You may still post and vote in the game thread as normal while you are sealed.

Sage of Light

- In order to release your medallion and break your seal,

Ganondorf

must die. You will gain your true abilities if this happens, though you will no longer be able to communicate in the sacred realm.

Active Abilities:

None

Please remember that you can use only one active ability per phase.

Win Condition (Hero):

You win when all threats have been eliminated and the land of Hyrule is safe once again.

Please confirm via return PM.

[Substrike22]

Yes, I'm claiming neighbor. To have a huge mason group of 6 people would be slightly "lol", as Fate pointed out.

[Substrike22]

I may have had something to do with UT's death.
@Chronopie & Substrike: Do you suspect any of your neighbors? If so, who are they? Don't worry about revealing roles; Neighbor Sleeper is ridiculously weak so you're not giving anything away.

Because Chronopie and Substrike, if town, should have been attacking at least one or two of the neighbors. If they were not attacking at least one of their neighbors, they are scum. It would give me a much better read on two of the main lynch candidates of the day.

merely a reveal that the person is one of the neighbors in question.

That's what I meant.

Rolefishing, much?

Chronopie: Yes you do. If you find somebody in your neighbor group suspicious, you should not hesitate to claim that they are your neighbor. It's that, or be lynched. Your choice.

And now threatening Chrono with a lynch if he doesn't reveal? Really now? Seems rather opportunistic, for a disagreement in opinion on how to handle a neighbor role...

The neighbors would know is unsealed, yes. The scum in the neighbors would also reveal to their partners, yes. I don't see how revealing who you suspect out of the neighbors is revealing all of them, though.

Oh! I just had a genius idea.

Everybody

:

Make a list of the top three players in this game that you'd want to have revealed as neighbors (including why gets you a free hug coupon that is redeemable at the end of the game) in order of preference.

#1 gets 3 points
#2 gets 2
#3 gets 1

The only part of this idea that I haven't completed is the point threshold. Nikanor, help me out here. I'm trying to figure out a number that'll limit the ability of scum to manipulate this. Any thoughts?

My idea is that, if any of the neighbors exceed the threshold, that they are revealed as a neighbor. This way, we avoid revealing people based upon chrono / substrike alone and, instead, get it off of the town's judgment. I don't exactly trust either of them to have good logic. Just sayin'

It's ok I don't trust you either.

Also substrike did you ever answer my case on you? I don't recall it. Do answer it.

I believe I may have somewhere, but I answered quite a few questions yesterday, from a variety of different people... so if you'll give me the post # I'll go look and answer, cause I can't find it and I'm not digging through 80 pages right now. I can do that this week after Wednesday, if you can't give me a post # by then... (University thesis due on Wednesday)

BE, voting masons = good idea... how?

I think they're all scum.

OR MAYBE THEY WANT ME TO THINK THEY'RE SCUM, SO THEY AREN'T ATTACKING ANYONE IN THEIR NEIGHBOR GROUP.

You're saying, "Tell us who you suspect in the group." Which lets everyone know who is in the group. I don't think this is info that needs to be let out right now. What you are saying the town would gain is not true.

Scenario 1: They are scum. They claim to be suspicious of one of their own. In your book, they get protown points and if that person is lynched scum it looks pretty good for the rest of them. That's how scum bussing works.

Scenario 2: There is a scum in their group. They suspect him. Just normal scumhunting that doesnt need to have his affiliation as a neighbor laid out.

Scenario 3: There is a scum in their group. They don't suspect him. We've outed neighbors for nothing.

Scenario 4: There is no scum in the group. We again, have outed neighbors for nothing and gone on a wild goose chase.

How again does this help the town any more than run of the mill scum hunting? It doesnt. You're looking for bonus info that helps you kill PRs before they hurt you.

QFT, right now.

Also, I find the discussion on Exilon's cop ability weird underdiscussed. I see this as a reliable opportunity to gain information if we can work out whether or not there's a "shift". I also find it strange that Exilon would attempt to make a fake claim like that, because if LLD flips town, he ends up in a world of trouble. So there are a few scenarios there.

1) Exilon is scum. LLD flips town, we lynch Exilon the next day (or he blames it on flavor spec/miller/etc.)
2) Exilon is town, LLD flips town, see above flavor spec, possibly caused by a shift to another person
3) Exilon is town, LLD is scum, tells us every "mason" is scum. Exilon, have you checked any of the other claimed masons? That'd pretty much resolve that...
4) Exilon is scum, LLD is scum, Exilon is busing the rest of team. (possible, not likely.)
5) Any other scenario I haven't thought of that someone else would like to bring up?


@ DTMaster post 2188 (p. 88), our neighbors suspect that there are scum among us. We feel a 6 person town voting block would be overpowered, and the fakeclaim speculation doesn't help the situation. Suffice to say there is not agreement among us as to the scum, but there is scum hunting within the quick topic and in the forum, between us.

Actually, let's do it this way: Everyone in the neighbor group, claim in your neighbor QT the names of the people who you think are scum, only out of the people in your neighborhood.
If one of the neighbors fails to produce or gives crappy reasoning or has only shown suspicions of that person now that I'm asking about it, I would appreciate a town neighbor coming forward with that information.
Now there's no reason to not carry through with this plan, since it doesn't reveal anything to the scums who already know everything anyway. Chronopie, you're in charge of making sure this gets done and telling me when it is done and the results.

Someone die and make you general? I don't like that we're just buying this mason claim when LLD has been seen as scummy and then Exilon comes forth with info that he has a guilty read on her. I think we should give Beefster his chance to identify a shift, it'll give us confirmed and usable information.

VOTE: Substrike22

[Substrike22]

That was a block post full of nothing. Good job Substrike.

Hypocrite.

[Substrike22]

Beefster did you figure out the shift yet? If so, care to enlighten us?

[Substrike22]

Just to be clear, why are people finding BE scummy all of a sudden? I Iso'd him and he wasn't posting things that were different from what he was posting yesterday.

Also, reading over the vote counts, since we determined that there was a -10 shift (that was what was determined, yes?, I'm reading exilon's iso), doesn't that give Exilon's read on LLD a starting point? Problem is, Exilon, if you -10 LLD you end up off the list and either on the Mod or the Deku Tree, both of which are town. How does that work out?

Also, who'd you end up "targeting" the second time, for today?

[Substrike22]

I suppose at this point I should at least take my vote off myself.

UNVOTE: Substrike22

Also if the cop got a null read on me, shouldn't we at least attack someone else with the lynch? If you still want, vig bait, fine by me. But right now we need to lynch actual scum and not someone who just hasn't been around that much? There are several other people who've been as flakey/lurkey as me, and I don't understand why names like Aikage or Dekes aren't being floated around more. Dekes pops on every once in a while to cast a vote on the latest wagon, and Aikage pops on less than that. Aikage has a grand total of 12 fucking posts, people. I've read some of the other cases and they're just bullshit. I guarantee you half the people on my wagon are scum that are pushing a lynch because the masons are providing the opportunity. Those who are town are on the BE wagon or voting me for the wrong reasons. The Masons need to seriously reconsider their position right now. I haven't been participating in the QT, because as you all established there are probably scum in there. If there are two scum teams, it's not that far out to assume that there are potentially two scum in there. At this point I'm almost willing to just out all of them and we can start lynching one by one. If you want to start with me, fine, but Chrono you need to do something about this shit starting tomorrow. Start with the person I was pointing the finger at in the QT, then work your way down the list. If you ever find out who Ruto is, that's probably a good place to go next. With that I'll throw my vote on Aikage.

VOTE: Aikage

Also, just throwing this out there, but if we can figure out who Exilon's D1 hit was then we don't need to guess today. Exilon how do you figure a -10 shift makes sense? I don't get how you get that. Unless you know something I don't, which would be great if you could fix that for me. There are multiple possibilities if a shift exists and -10 seems like an arbitrary number. I know that my null read depends on your theory, but it's more important that we figure this out now so you guys have legs to stand on.

edit: ninja'd by Ythan and Bunny

[Substrike22]

It's ok, you snuck onto my wagon and have posted nothing other than "sub needs lynch, nowz." Also your extent of "contributing" to the game involves simply agreeing with other people where you think you can score town points, then attempting to promote the top bandwagon in an attempt to get to the next day alive as quickly as possible. How odd. If anyone needs an investigation from a cop, it's you, Ythan, and BE. The extent of your "town" reads are random participation in flavor speculation (you're not the worst offender, nor is Ythan or BE, and we've all talked about it, but let's be honest, flavor spec =/= town), bullying people into voting your way, and one line posts reminding everyone at least 2-3 times a page that I need to be lynched. Yeah, definite town right there people. Let's all use his reads. I mean at least I was comfortable being targeted by the "masons," but being bandwagoned by the scum is a little disheartening.

Also, I love that Exilon's guilty verdict has just slipped into the back of conversation. We have a guilty verdict on someone who's claiming to be a mason, and talks of potential shifts aside, no one else finds that worth discussing? I've tried several times to bring it up. I love that we're taking bully-nik, random flavor spec LL, and flaky-as-me Cupcake at their words as masons with a guilty read "on" one of them. No, you're right, let's just lynch an inactive lurker and leave the town with just as little information today as we had yesterday.

[Substrike22]

I'm comfortable with the BE wagon, as per my former post.

UNVOTE: Aikage
VOTE: BE

[Substrike22]

LL you're all saying that with a sample population of 1. (2 if we include today) There's no way to verify the shift hit a miller, it could've hit anyone on that list. I've heard all the OMG pay attention arguments. I'm just not buying all of them at face value.

[Substrike22]

BIG DADDY: "Jesus H. Christ!"
PLUSHIE: "What is it, baby?"
BIG DADDY: "We need to prod HALF the goddamn playerlist!"
PLUSHIE: "Awwww... it's okay, sweetie."
BIG DADDY: "Hey...what's that rumbling noise?"
PLUSHIE: "Quick! LOOK OUT!"
BIG DADDY: "Whew, that was a close one..."

nameloc1986 (4): "Fluffy", "Bridget", A Flying Pot, nameloc1986
Substrike22 (7): ABR, Hinduragi, Substrike22, RayFrost, Dekes, chesskid3, Lady Lambdadelta
Blooderection (3): Le Cupcake, Blooderection, Ythan
Dekes (1): DTMaster
Mothrax (2): Nikanor, mothrax
Bunnylover (0): Bunnylover
Beefster (1): Beefster
jmj3000 (1): zwetschenwasser
Exilon (1): Exilon
jenniwren (1): jenniwren
Chronopie (1): Chronopie

Not voting: jmj3000, ZONEACE, Aikage, KDub

With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch!
deadline is the 17th at 11:59PM.
Prodding DTMaster, Dekes, Aikage, Substrike22, Chronopie, jenniwren, nameloc1986, Blooderection, zwetschenwasser, Albert B. Rampage, Hinduragi.

Are you getting the -10 or plus 15 from this, since the rolling attack "hit" reck? I get that now. But given that, Exilon just confirmed me as non scum. So why do I still have votes on me if you agree the shift has been addressed? If you're that confident in knowing the shift, and Exilon just checked me, accounting for the shift, then it's absolutely dumb for you to still have your vote on me. Direct it towards others, who are actually scum, thank you. I suggest BE or RayFrost.

[Substrike22]

BE and Ythan buddies?

[Substrike22]

Also if the cop got a null read on me, shouldn't we at least attack someone else with the lynch?

VOTE: Substrike

You're a claimed sage, so the cop would get no result on you regardless. There's no reason for us to switch votes off you in light of exilon's result. You're also being scummy as hell.

This reasoning makes absolutely no sense. Yeah, if I'm town, the cop would get no result on me. Thank you Cpt. Obvious.

Kdub, I saw this, coupled with the fact that he's disappeared when the pressure on him increased. My read changed.

You have to look at it from my perspective... ok? A lot of people were attacking me when i came in guns blazing with a scum list, most of those people are still likely scum and have yet to explain themselves. So i point back to page 19, usually helps. it didn't this time sadly.

But my list was more likely first..... i do believe.

I follow Fate because he's Obviously town.

[Substrike22]

How would you say that I've been manipulating people? I'm pretty sure that I've been rather

up front about what I want

(I hardly feel that being demanding's a bad thing). As to telling you to vote for the person I felt was scum... why woudn't I do this? I don't see myself as calling the shots here, care to give examples past chess (I say past chess because chess would've said "ok" to pretty much anybody saying yes or no)? I've moved towards BE, but the votes are still on substrike, and I'm being called scummy for my change (without people actually pointing out how my logic is flawed). I don't really see this as being the guy calling the shots.

Note the italicized.
-I think you're a little too upfront about making points- which looks somewhat manipulative. You seem to have gotten chesskid to follow your "orders." (which, you're probably right- is a nulltell)
-I'm not so much suspicious as concerned. For the past ten posts or so, you seemed to be very matter-of-fact about things that aren't exactly facts, which bothers me.

And some of your suggestions looked more like commands to me.

Maybe it's just your posting style, but I will say IGMEOU.

Note italicized.
But you're fine with the way Nik is posting?

[Substrike22]

Not sure how I feel about people unvoting 24 hours til deadline, the fact that I'm the alternate option aside. Risking a no-lynch when we have no guarantee that the deadline's extending is risky.

And Kdub, BE's wagon is no more -or- less easy than mine. Mine was LL making a case against me, along with you, and maybe 1-2 other random points here and there. Most of the other stuff consisted of people agreeing with the most townish-player they could find and hoping on my wagon. If you want to find scum, look at the people who are hopping all over the place. The people randomly hoping on these wagons and not saying anything useful are the ones that need to be examined. I.e. ck3, mothrax. Also I'm aware that my view changed based on something he had already said, but 1)I re-read the Iso and that didn't catch my eye the first time, and 2) he also went completely AWOL when votes started adding up. I jumped on the next biggest bandwagon, but I have valid reasons for doing so.

[Substrike22]

"Bah." Good luck everyone.

[Substrike22]

DTM I honestly think you're worthy of a scummy. I thought you were town the entire time until I died and found out otherwise. Well played everyone.

[Substrike22]

/pre in for WoW