Newbie 989 - Dead Serious Game Over!

[Espeonage]

Hi Everyone, I am your IC for this game. There are alot of ICs that make a large introductory post with little things that help newbies but I find they always forget something. As such I'm not going to do one. Instead every now and then I will have little IC tags ([IC][/IC]) around parts of my post as they will have some sort of lesson in them.

To start us off we are in the RVS stage. This is where we start placing random votes until more solid cases can be built.

Also just so we are all on the same page with each other. Could you please answer these questions:
What experience do you have playing Mafia if any at all?
What is your timezone?

Good Luck everyone. Have a fun game.

VOTE: Rioku
Suicune is better. :p

[Espeonage]

To answer my own questions.
I have many games here and on three other sites. This is my favorite style of game however. never played irl before though.
GMT+10. So Australia. I am on at all times though. like it's 5:30 in the morning at the moment and I am online.

[Espeonage]

Unvote

Vote: Mr Nobody

1.) OMGUS
2.) Rioku voted Nobody, and I used to watch Inuyasha o3o
3.) We're still in RVS, so I don't actually need valid reasons, neither of which those two are
4.) I think a wagon might help get things going a bit.

1) OMGUSing the OMGUS
3) Makes me uneasy. RVS doesn't mean you can go around putting your votes wherever willy nilly. The RVS has a purpose. To gain info.

FoS: STDD

[IC]Fos stands for Finger of suspicion. it usually means that you are finding the person scummy but unwarranting of your vote.[/IC]

[Espeonage]

I meant that he omgus and you used that as reasoning for a vote. And you called it omgus. I should have put a question mark instead of a full stop. Anyways. you still hath fos.

[Espeonage]

I love Newbie games.
Mr. Nobody is town.

@ STDD: He was talking to Mr.N
@ mallow: You spelt my name correct.
@ Rioku: Fair summation but that is just early game noobieness.

[Espeonage]

EBWOP
[IC]Stands for Edit By Way Of Post, because we can't edit our posts.[IC]

@Mr. N: FoS lets other people in the game know what you are thinking. Sometimes people don't FoS because they see it as pointless but I use it on occassion.

[Espeonage]

Sorry, I have a tendancy to over-explain myself.

He is a newbie. The wording of this and the fact that he was a mess of posts then posted this nicely and left it means he is town. Were he scum there would have been some more trying to cover himself as newbies do. Were he an experienced player not in his first game then it would be null. It is a preliminary read but I am fair sure he is town.

[Espeonage]

Mallow. Get an avatar NAO.

[Espeonage]

@STDD- It was at Mr.Nobody.
@Esp- I'm not really sure. It might be slightly newb that he admitted to an OMGUS but the fact that he admitte to trying to start a bandwagon is rubbing me the wrong way...

oooooo. Ok this is one thing I was timid about teaching. I have had many idscussions about the true reasons why RVS works so well. I have always held the opinion that RVS is designed to build pressure so that information can come out at a good and healthy rate. How does this happen? Pressure. In a mature small game it is not weird to see someone at L-1 during RVS because of this very reason. I actually applaud a newbie that isn't scared to starta bandwagon so long as they also know when one isn't warranted.

[Espeonage]

MilkAndCookies

AVATAR NAO

[Espeonage]

Lurking post for Lurkers.

1. There is a difference between active lurking and inactive lurking
2. There are two forms of inactive lurking. Purposeful and Flaking.
3. Flaking is when you don't post because you are not around. You have no interest in the game and should be replaced out.
4. Purposeful Inactive Lurking: When you are not posting at all on purpose. Not scummy but definantly anti-town. Is a null tell.
5. Active Lurking aka Lurking in Plain Sight: When you are posting in threas. You have a normal post rate and you are pretending to contribute to the game. However most long posts will be full of either IIoA or WIFOM. May not even try and post content and will post just to avoid the prod. This is scummy but there are possible town motivations for it, especially amongst newbies.
(IIoA = Information Instead of Analysis, Someone is narrating instead of scum/town hunting)(WIFOM = Wine In Front Of Me, If you don't know what this is look it up in the wiki. The amount of discussions about WIFOM that I have seen in Newbie games is astounding so lets just leave that one for now unless it becomes inportant to look into it furthur.)
Anyway. There are many types of lurkers. The best bet is to get on their backs if they aren't flaking otherwise leave it up to the mod.

Ok now to adress some more game related things. @ Mr.N: Yeah he did start one but the execution of it was different and as such you got the tick of approval while he didn't.
@RM: Eh we are kinda in kinda out. As trendall said there is no set time. When one can make a coherent case it is usually safe to say we are out of it.

I'll have a look back over the last couple of pages and I might change votes in a sec. Until then be happy with my educational post of the day.

[Espeonage]

UNVOTE: Rioku
VOTE: STDD

I already made mention of a FoS so that has some weight here. Now this isn't really all that strong of a case but in addition to what I previously said you are now buddying up to Trendall and defending him when he should be doing that himself. SE's should know better than to do that, especially this early when there is little case that needs defending.

[Espeonage]

EBWOP:
Obviously you aren't, as yous tated "this isn't really all that strong of a case." What I meant to say was "Are you tyring to imply that Trendall and I could be scum buddies?"

Nope. I'm saying you are trying to buddy up with Trendall. As in you are trying to get on town Trendall's good side so that he wont attack you. It is a common scum tactic.

[Espeonage]

I didn't mean to say you weren't. I'm saying he was also defending you.

[Espeonage]

Did I say I thought Trendall was town? All I said was that I have no reason to see him as scum yet.

@ Mallow:
1. I'm crying inside
2. SE is just someone that has played more games. At least he has played three which really isn't alot.

[Espeonage]

Nope. I'm saying you are trying to buddy up with Trendall. As in you are trying to

get on town Trendall's good side

so that he wont attack you. It is a common scum tactic.

It's bolded.

Ok IC moment here.

Throughout this site you will se many people refer so town so and so or scum so and so. What people mean when they say this is that should player X be town then this applies. Or vice versa for scum soandso.

What I am saying in my post is that if Trendall is Town then what I am saying holds true from what I can see.

Get me?

[Espeonage]

To both Rioku and Nobody:
What are your opinions on Esp's vote against me?

unvote: Rioku

Vote: Scrambles

I've had suspicions for some time now, but had decided to stick with where I was not feeling the time was right. Maybe I should have done this earlier.

You gonna provide some reasoning with that?

[Espeonage]

Ok my town read on Nobody was purely based on post style not on actions. Yeah his actions have been sub par but I am attempting to rectify that by asking him to give resoning for votes. Other than that I don't really see the case on me.

Now STDD. You try to bring up that you started a wagon. That is all well and good but that wasn't why I thought you were scummy. Yeah I gave you a FoS. You should be paying closer attention to the post where I actually voted you and my case there.

[Espeonage]

@Esp- If you're right about STDD being scum, then who would you target next? Do you have anyone in mind as his scum buddy? Or will you just try to figure it out as you go?

Discussing scumteams page 4? No. I'm not even that concrete in my STDD vote. It is still very early in the game.

[Espeonage]

lol, just lol. This is a newbie game. Two sites rarely have compatible meta. You could grab my meta from elsewhere and it is rather different. As a newbie game you're gonna have to go without unless you want meta on either me. (Which is going to be different because I play anti IC normally.) Or on Mallow.

[Espeonage]

Ok. You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying when I said Town Trendall.
People commonly propose hypothetical situations in Mafia to show how something works/doesn't work. You get the point. Anyway, what I was saying is that should STDD be Mafia he would know that you Trendall is town. So assuming that you are indeed town. (What I meant by saying town Trendall) then what I said applies. Do you get what I am saying. I'm sure I could skim through one of my older games and point out where someone else does it but that may take a while and I don't really have that much time on my hands.

@Rioku: Noone. I have no suspicions that would be worthy of a vote at this stage other than STDD. It is early in the game and there really isn't enough to be going on. We have a long time before the day is over. Also. Keeping me alive for the sake of information really isn't the way to play a newbie game. The games are already said to be swingy in the favour of scum so keeping around a potential scum really isn't optimal play. If you find me scummy you make a case and vote for me.

@mallow: Ties in with that last comment. My response to you is: Good.

@STDD: He might have universal tells. I don't know. I'm just saying don't get your hopes up because meta from different styles of games can be misleading/not useful. I'm not going to stop you using people's meta.

@Haylen: Queen of newbies and yo is all you can do. I am dissapoint.

I love my newbies :3 And that was just a placeholder for a vote count. Hey, since Im Newbie Queen, do you think every newbie should send me a mothers day card? :O ~ Hayl

[Espeonage]

Eh. I just use that type of expression because it is easier when you are doing multiple things like Town X = blah Scum X = bleh.

[Espeonage]

What difference does that really make. UNVOTE: Mah Vote

[Espeonage]

Really one could argue that there is an 11% chance that I am mafia 1 and failing that I have a 12.5 % chance of being mafia 2. That would make it 23.5% But as I said it doesn't really make a difference because that percentage is the same for everyone.

@RM: Yes and the two parts were unrelated. So I made a comment and then made an independant unvote. sorry for not making that clear.

[Espeonage]

Because. I'm not as sure in my read.

[Espeonage]

Now would be a good time to claim Mr. Nobody

Noone is to hammer should he claim VT. It is too early in the day and we can milk more discussion from this.

[Espeonage]

lol. I made that post because noone would think of hammering him if were anything other than a vt. comprende?

Would you lynch a claimed cop or doc day 1 just after they claimed? NO. But if they are a VT and then you might and it wouldn't be too bad.

[Espeonage]

Ok. If any of you read the being a good IC which I have to play by it even says that I need to teach you guys that you shouldn't lynch a claimed PR day 1. It actually says that. Now I was extending that to VT for the moment because we can still get more out of this game.

The reason this is how it is is because a scum will very unlikely claim a power role day 1. Due to the semi-open nature of the game scum can't be sure of any safe claims until deaths occur. Now we may lynch Mr. N and we probably will, my previous statements have been overrided. One session of townness doesn't override an overall scummy performance. Anyways I am just calling for no after claim quicklynch which thankfully didn't happen. Now we are in discussion and for that I am happy.

So basically the gist of this post is that I would be less inclined to lynch him if he had claimed an un-rivaled pr than the vt claim he made.

[Espeonage]

Back at neutral.

[Espeonage]

It wasn't meant to be a safe option for MrN. If you go back to that point the SE mallow even agreed with me.

also CC is a common abbreviation for counter claim.

@STDD: Yep but they are mostly town reads I would rather not share them but until I percieve someone to be scummy enough I will vote. We still have a week and a half left.

@Mod: I am missing from the votecount

[Espeonage]

mallow. You should know better than to hammer this early.

[Espeonage]

because if we have our day one lynch we can start day two before we hammer. I've been in games where it has been done before and it is especially useful when we have almost no actual discussion.

[Espeonage]

That is what I have been trying to say about prolonging the day.

[Espeonage]

Eh, Leave him for now. We have an early day 2 wagon to start conversationizing off.

[Espeonage]

I'm not really seeing how mallow hammering is scummy. If he really believed Nobody was scum, then he had a perfectly acceptable reason. It might have been a little fast but as for it hindering conversation, there hasn't actually been any. Even though we have a lot of extra time in twilight (Is it normally this long?) and no ones said anything except that they're starting an early D2 bandwagon of Mallow that I don't really see justification for. If someone could explain that to me it'd be appreciated.

Hammering is a bit of a touchy issue. The basic consensus is prolonging the day is pro town and shortening it is anti town. Therefore premature hammers are generally considered scummy. Scum as a general rule want less discussion as the less discussion that happens the easier it is for them to get by undetected. So by the same token scum really want quicklynches to happen as it lets them get through a day unharmed. Some people are just trigger happy by nature though so it isn't a really concrete tell.

[Espeonage]

Gmae was out for a while. I need to get my head back in place here. Two new games have started since zthe start of night.

[Espeonage]

In Newbie games the kill is the Mafia's not a specific person's.

[Espeonage]

How can you see that I haven't been online since my last post? I just want to say that I haven't left the game, but since I don't feel I have anything relevant to say, I haven't said anything.

To say the least, and to try and get things going, this is not pro-town at all, and even if you ARE town, you are helping the scum by doing this.

For the sake of getting some things going,
VOTE: Funky

"Fire up, team."

Ok people need to get here and do some analysis. I will do a reread tomorrow night. I'm rather tired and the election is on tomorrow.

[Espeonage]

ebwop. Mean to say. That isn't a very good post. Good intentions (maybe) but not the right way about it.

[Espeonage]

Reread commencing when I am caught up with all my games. Sorry for being absent. I just simply forgot. I am here now though.

[Espeonage]

@ Bob yes this is my first game as IC. I was actually very nervous about it. That hasn't helped. I think i might stick to SEing. Much more fun and i am better at it. Anyway back to the game.

Last scum is Rikou but also may be funky. Boberz is town. He is being objective which is a very towny quality. Trendall feels town but may just be a good scum player.

I have seriously fudged this game up so far.

VOTE: Rikou To start us off today.

[Espeonage]

ebwop VOTE: Rioku

[Espeonage]

ok fine. By process of elimination as stated in my last post I am voting Rioku.

[Espeonage]

I do take issue with your reasoning earlier yesterday as well. Just because town appeared to not be doing well and I was playing doesn't mean I am scum. I have a total of two or three wins on here.

I would say that an IC alive on day 2 that played well would be scum, so I'm not going to hold that point against you. That is fair reasoning.

I basically was saying that I think Trendall is town but unlike with you I have some reservations. So that leaves Rioku and Funky. If Rioku is the scum then he is alot more dangerous to keep alive in lylo tomorrow and so would be the better of the two to lynch today.

[Espeonage]

mallow was wifom in my eyes. It was too scummy to be scum. I was wrong in that but it was the reason behind my reservations on going hard on mallow day 2. My day 1 play was marred by the fact that I was getting to caught up with teaching that I forgot the game. Anyways that isn't an excuse. I've answered your points. I think we should wait for some others to get here to see if anyone else wants to question me or make a new case. Also. Do a day 2 iso of STDD. That was what else puts rioku ahead of funky in my eyes.

[Espeonage]

Nah not NK analysis. What he said. Don't connect it back to NK.

[Espeonage]

STDD =/= Rioku scum.

[Espeonage]

No I said StDDs iso puts you ahead. I never said ti had anything to do with the nk.

[Espeonage]

You are more dangerous as scum in lylo as you would have a better chance of confising the town than Funky. Consider it a compliment.

[Espeonage]

scum can be certan.........

[Espeonage]

Really, there is no way I can ever be certain. I see the point. And if you really want me to I can and will vote for the person I find most suspicious. With Esp's newest comment giving me even more suspicion against him. Why shouldn't he try to get the Big Finger of Suspicion on me, instead of on him as it was before...

?

[Espeonage]

boberz. I'm just gonna say this now before it gets out of hand. Taking charge and all is great but attacking every single player other than you really isn't the best way to go about it.

[Espeonage]

I'm VT.

[Espeonage]

And I'm more making comment on your tone. it seems rather aggressive.

[Espeonage]

mmmk.

[Espeonage]

Actually I was thinking that. I'm not playing my scum meta either. I'll dig up the game, I'm an appalling scumbag.

[Espeonage]

Yeah I haven't updated my wiki for months. i'll get the game in a sec.

[Espeonage]

http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13990

Me as a scumbag.

[Espeonage]

You are mis repping my lylo post. What I am saying is if you are the last scum you would be harder to catch than funky hence why it is a semi compliment.

bob feels town because of his objectiveness which i actually said. And trendall has just played to the book. The lack of points against him kinda makes that one obvious.

[Espeonage]

Eh, Leave him for now. We have an early day 2 wagon to start conversationizing off.

Remond me why you did not follow through on this?

Because I lost track of and forgot this game until I was prodded.

[Espeonage]

I think he is meaning that the mallow lynch left town with a bucket of wifom and nothing else to go on.

[Espeonage]

I provided reasoning. Funky was using it as a blanket reason not to vote much. There is a difference.

[Espeonage]

I just realised I'm still voting you. UNVOTE: Rioku

[Espeonage]

Seriously?

VOTE: Funky

[Espeonage]

First of all this isn't me giving up. it is a legitimate action where I am helping town by removing a distraction who if left alive would be detrimental to town. take heed of what I have said. I hope I am not wrong in declaring some of reads. Bob seems town but eh he might not be. Trendall is my strongest town read. Use those however you want. Also I would like to say that you shouldn't self hammer unless you are town and as wifommy if kept alive as I am at the moment.
bobs last line is very true.

Goodbyes. sorry I missed a day and am not a good IC.

VOTE: Espeonage

[Espeonage]

Well yes bob. It isn't usually a good idea to vote yourself but in the given circumstances my slot is better not creating wifom for the town. I can't stress that voting yourself should basically never be done. I figured that I would in case Trendall decided not to hammer for some reason.

[Espeonage]

Dude, It's twilight, you better make it quick.

[Espeonage]

Cheers welcome Domino. Funky is scum btw.

well it is going to be you, funky and domino in lylo so i hope you are right.

[Espeonage]

I was assuming that Trendall is NKed for uber townieness.

[Espeonage]

I'm sorry that I was the worst IC there ever was.