Newbie 989 - Dead Serious Game Over!

[Rioku243]

@STDD- Which do you think is more likely? Esp/Nobody scum pair, or Esp being scum and Nobody being town. And let's say by some chance you're wrong and Esp IS town. Don't you think that losing that teaching would make the scum's job easier? I'm not trying to defend Esp's actions, but in general. I don't think trying to lynch an IC on the first day is the best thing for town/

@Random Master- Who do you think is the most suspicious in this game so far and why? Are you getting any reads on anyone that you'd like to share with us?

@Mallow- What do you mean by "You won't fool me." Are you saying that you'll be able to read his actions well enough to figure out his alignment? Please elaborate.

@Esp- If you're right about STDD being scum, then who would you target next? Do you have anyone in mind as his scum buddy? Or will you just try to figure it out as you go?

[Espeonage]

@Esp- If you're right about STDD being scum, then who would you target next? Do you have anyone in mind as his scum buddy? Or will you just try to figure it out as you go?

Discussing scumteams page 4? No. I'm not even that concrete in my STDD vote. It is still very early in the game.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

@STDD- Which do you think is more likely? Esp/Nobody scum pair, or Esp being scum and Nobody being town. And let's say by some chance you're wrong and Esp IS town. Don't you think that losing that teaching would make the scum's job easier? I'm not trying to defend Esp's actions, but in general. I don't think trying to lynch an IC on the first day is the best thing for town.

Let's say we lynch Esp. In the case he flips town, that'd be a horrible loss for the town. Before responding to which I think is more possible though, I'd like to request

Nobody's meta (a list of links to the player's previous games), both scum and town.

I don't mind if it's offsite.

[Espeonage]

lol, just lol. This is a newbie game. Two sites rarely have compatible meta. You could grab my meta from elsewhere and it is rather different. As a newbie game you're gonna have to go without unless you want meta on either me. (Which is going to be different because I play anti IC normally.) Or on Mallow.

[Haylen]

Vote Count

Trendall: Rioku
Espeonage: mallowgeno, Scrambles
mallowgeno: Trendall
RandomMaster: MilkandCookies
Scrambles: Espeonage, Mr Nobody

Not Voting: Funkyzafara, RandomMaster

Deadline is Thursday 19th August, 9pm GMT+1. 9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Random Notes

Trendall, I'm a brit aswell, specifically southern England ^_^

[mallowgeno]

@Mallow- What do you mean by "You won't fool me." Are you saying that you'll be able to read his actions well enough to figure out his alignment? Please elaborate.

I mean that he better not think he's an auto-clear.

[Rioku243]

@Esp- Why not? If you'd rather me rephrase it, who else do you find suspicious? I realize it's early in the game with little information but we have to try and work with what we have don't we?

@STDD- I don't really find meta's reliable in either case. People can act really different in games despite their alignment.

@mallow- I don't think anyone's an auto clear. There's always a chance that they're scum until they flip.

[Trendall]

@STDD-As Esp said, a newbie would probably buddy up, regardless of town or mafia. However SE's should know better.

I don't think it's 'buddying up', I just think he saw Rioku's post, disagreed with it, and posted his opinion on it, which happened to be the same opinion as mine. I do this all the time - see one person's argument about somebody else, see where it's all wrong, and write my own response to it before anybody else can be swayed by it and it wastes time that could otherwise be spent doing more constructive things. Also, get an avatar.

Ok IC moment here.

Throughout this site you will se many people refer so town so and so or scum so and so. What people mean when they say this is that should player X be town then this applies. Or vice versa for scum soandso.

Woah. Just, woah. I don't like this at all. Why would you ever, EVER, in a game where clarity is so crucial, say one thing when you mean entirely a different thing, and just expect everybody else to know what you mean? It's your responsibility as a player to be as clear and precise as you can. It's not everybody else's responsibility to make sure they are interpreting your ambiguous posts correctly. There should be no ambiguity in the first place.

1) I considered it to be more under the "Active Lurking" that Esp described.

2) I also found it weird that he decided not to randomly vote in one post but then a few posts later put in a nonrandom vote but using RVS logic such as mallow not having an avatar.

3) I'm also not willing to lynch our IC yet as he will hopefully teach us a lot within the days. You trying to vote him could be seen as you trying to get rid of the help the newbies need.

1) Yeah, I'm moving back up to university soon, so I've spent the last couple of days visiting family and that, and haven't really had time to construct a proper reply. Plus, I tend not to say that much anyway until I've got something really concrete to say. If you spent time with me with a group of people in real life, you'd probably find I was exactly the same. Now, I know a lot of people on this site would disagree with me, but someone's posting habits and frequency are far more likely to be affected by how busy they are in real life, their personality, and their reads on other players (if they haven't formed an opinion on anyone because there's not enough information yet, then of course they're not going to post much), their enthusiasm for the game etc.. than they are by their alignment. In the last game I played, the 'active lurkers' were all town, and the two scum players posted quite a lot of content all game. 'Not posting much content' is such a null tell, especially right at the start of the game when there is pretty much no content to post.

2) A nonrandom vote with random logic? What is this? It wasn't anything like that, it was just a random vote, plain and simple.

3) Don't like the sound of this. If we think the IC's scummy, we lynch him (or her, sorry if I've got that wrong Espeonage). We've still got the two SEs, the Wiki, and all of the other players in the game who hopefully have read up on a couple of previous other games and have a sufficient level of play. Even without the IC, between us all, I'm sure we know enough to sort out any problems. Especially as, from what I can tell, the IC's gave us some pretty crazy advice so far.

yo.

Hello

...

I'm pretty much null on everyone at the moment. Not really getting a particularly towny feel from anybody, which is sad. I've disagreed with a lot of things that Rioku has said so far, so I'm naturally going to be suspicious of him/her (again, sorry, I can't tell/can't remember), but it might just be that he or she is a town player who I happen to disagree with a lot, which is easily plausible.

Espeonage, I'd like to hear your response to what I've written before I can make a better judgment. It might just be a huge misunderstanding on my part. But from what I can tell, you've said something suspicious, someone's called you out on it, and then you've effectively gone 'no, I meant this, and you should have known I meant this', further validating your claim by putting an IC disclaimer to it. So yeah, I'd like to hear your position on that.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

Two sites rarely have compatible meta. You could grab my meta from elsewhere and it is rather different.

Your saying that offsite as scum he'd act different? If in past scum games he likes to hop on wagons with giving little to no reasoning, I think that'd work here.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

EBWOP -
I know I have other things to respond to, and I will, I'm just kind of busy irl atm :\

[Espeonage]

Ok. You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying when I said Town Trendall.
People commonly propose hypothetical situations in Mafia to show how something works/doesn't work. You get the point. Anyway, what I was saying is that should STDD be Mafia he would know that you Trendall is town. So assuming that you are indeed town. (What I meant by saying town Trendall) then what I said applies. Do you get what I am saying. I'm sure I could skim through one of my older games and point out where someone else does it but that may take a while and I don't really have that much time on my hands.

@Rioku: Noone. I have no suspicions that would be worthy of a vote at this stage other than STDD. It is early in the game and there really isn't enough to be going on. We have a long time before the day is over. Also. Keeping me alive for the sake of information really isn't the way to play a newbie game. The games are already said to be swingy in the favour of scum so keeping around a potential scum really isn't optimal play. If you find me scummy you make a case and vote for me.

@mallow: Ties in with that last comment. My response to you is: Good.

@STDD: He might have universal tells. I don't know. I'm just saying don't get your hopes up because meta from different styles of games can be misleading/not useful. I'm not going to stop you using people's meta.

@Haylen: Queen of newbies and yo is all you can do. I am dissapoint.

I love my newbies :3 And that was just a placeholder for a vote count. Hey, since Im Newbie Queen, do you think every newbie should send me a mothers day card? :O ~ Hayl

[Trendall]

Ok. You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying when I said Town Trendall.
People commonly propose hypothetical situations in Mafia to show how something works/doesn't work. You get the point. Anyway, what I was saying is that should STDD be Mafia he would know that you Trendall is town. So assuming that you are indeed town. (What I meant by saying town Trendall) then what I said applies. Do you get what I am saying. I'm sure I could skim through one of my older games and point out where someone else does it but that may take a while and I don't really have that much time on my hands.

I think that's silly, considering that you could just saying 'assuming Trendall's town..' or whatever and only have to type a couple of extra words, but whatever, I'll go with your explanation.

[Espeonage]

Eh. I just use that type of expression because it is easier when you are doing multiple things like Town X = blah Scum X = bleh.

[Rioku243]

I just did an Isolation read of Esp and nothing really screams scummy to me... The only thing that sticks out is his defense of Nobody early on. And that it was a little rude of him to just laugh at STDD's request for a meta, even though I don't think it would help much either. And I don't think rude=scum in these forums.

Nobody seemed to have a panic attack early on when people accused him of OMGUS but then just, seemingly blindly, votes Scrambles without a good explanation. I'm kind of seeing him as slightly scummy right now, until he provides reasoning for his Scrambles vote but I've already mentioned this so I won't beat it to death.

Random Master seemed like he tried to defend Trendall as well but only by agreeing with Scrambles. But he also hasn't posted enough for me to get a good read on him, so I'm considering him neutral now.

Scrambles seems like he's town to me. I feel like he's one of the few actually trying to scum hunt here. His case against Esp is solid even though I don't particularly agree with it mainly because I don't see anything particularly scummy with Esp's posts. As of now, he has a town read from me because he seems like he's TRYING instead of trying to pull the "We don't have enough information yet" crap.

Believe it or not, I actually believe Trendall's town atm too. He replied to my points with a cool head instead of panicking like I believe he would have if he was scum. UNVOTE: Tendall

Anyone not mentioned, I can't get a read on because lack of posts/content in posts.

At this point in time, I find Nobody scummiest so that's where I will place my vote. VOTE: Mr.Nobody

@Trendall: I'm a him

And I'd like to clear up my IC lynch statement. If the I believe the IC is scummy I will vote for him, but I feel it would be a dangerous bandwagon to start now when I don't think he's scum, because if he's not and we do accidentally speed lynch him (This has happened before, correct?) that puts scum at a great advantage. I know the SE's could help us but I think the experience of an IC is more valuable (No offense STDD or Mallow ) because they've seen more.

[Mr Nobody]

Sorry, I've been busy these past few days. I realized the suspiciousness of my Scrambles vote, but I didn't have the time to explain when I realized it.

First of all, my Scrambles vote was due to me suspecting him before Esp voted for him. I was suspecting both him and Rioku but didn't jump to Scrambles until after someone voted for him; I decided to vote for who I thought scummy and who had the most other people voting for him at the time (which happened to be Esp in both cases).

I suspected Scrambles due to his, ferocity, for lack of a better word, in his attack on me. But I've now realized that could have been playing style rather than scummyness (Is that even a word?). So for now,

unvote: Scrambles

Now STDD. You try to bring up that you started a wagon. That is all well and good but that wasn't why I thought you were scummy. Yeah I gave you a FoS. You should be paying closer attention to the post where I actually voted you and my case there.

You did mention something earlier where my bandwagon got the tick of approval while his didn't. I don't know if that really means anything anymore though.

After looking over the posts, I'm not really sure of who is scum now. I find Esp's accusing of Scramble's defending of Trendall while Esp defended me a little suspicious, but I don't think I have enough to warrant a vote on him.

For the time being I don't think I have much on anybody. I'll just go with my earlier

vote: Rioku

.
I still think there's a good chance your town, but you are currently scummiest to me.

I don't have a meta you can get, the only mafia games I've played other than here are in real life.

[mallowgeno]

For the time being I don't think I have much on anybody. I'll just go with my earlier

vote: Rioku

.
I still think there's a good chance your town, but you are currently scummiest to me.

Err OMGUS much?

[Rioku243]

I believe that's 3 cases of OMGUS in this game from him already... First during RVS. Second as stated by

I suspected Scrambles due to his, ferocity, for lack of a better word, in his attack on me.

and then a third for his vote on me again.

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

*sigh* Nobody, there is so much wrong with your previous post. Also, I thought "meatworld" was a site, lol

First of all, my Scrambles vote was due to me suspecting him before Esp voted for him. I was suspecting both him and Rioku but didn't jump to Scrambles until after someone voted for him; I decided to vote for who I thought scummy and who had the most other people voting for him at the time (which happened to be Esp in both cases).

So, your afraid to make a vote by yourself and are attempting to fly under the radar by just voting along with others, instead of making cases yourself.

I suspected Scrambles due to his, ferocity, for lack of a better word, in his attack on me. But I've now realized that could have been playing style rather than scummyness (Is that even a word?). So for now,

I don't remember attacking you...? What post(s) did I do this in?

After looking over the posts, I'm not really sure of who is scum now. I find Esp's accusing of Scramble's defending of Trendall while Esp defended me a little suspicious, but I don't think I have enough to warrant a vote on him.

For the time being I don't think I have much on anybody. I'll just go with my earlier
vote: Rioku.
I still think there's a good chance your town, but you are currently scummiest to me.

What Rioku did isn't nearly enough a warrant for a vote NOW, considering cases are being formed and opinions made. Nobody, I hope you understand you don't always have to have a vote.
1.) Why vote for me, considering Esp's reason for voting me was "trying to buddy up with Trendall?" Were these your suspicions too, at the time of your vote?
2.) If those WERE your suspicions, why not consider voting Esp, instead of just joining him in his wagon against me?
3.) You voted (well, FoS'd Rioku, because you were already voting him in RVS) Rioku because you didn't like his attack on Trendall. I didn't necessarily like it either, but I wouldn't call it scummy. Atleast he gives reasons to his votes, hell, even if I don't agree with them, I like it when people give reasons.

FoS - Nobody

[Mr Nobody]

Err OMGUS much?

I was voting for him earlier. My change to voting for him wasn't because of him voting for me the post before. That was coincidence.

So, your afraid to make a vote by yourself and are attempting to fly under the radar by just voting along with others, instead of making cases yourself.

Somewhat. I was suspecting both you and Rioku, I decided to go with whoever other people were voting for.

I don't remember attacking you...? What post(s) did I do this in?

I'm referring to your comments on my defensive 3-post explanation of my vote on Rioku. It might not have been an attack, but the was the feeling I got from it.

What Rioku did isn't nearly enough a warrant for a vote NOW, considering cases are being formed and opinions made. Nobody, I hope you understand you don't always have to have a vote.

Yes, I voted for him because I wanted to have some vote out there.

1.) Why vote for me, considering Esp's reason for voting me was "trying to buddy up with Trendall?" Were these your suspicions too, at the time of your vote?
2.) If those WERE your suspicions, why not consider voting Esp, instead of just joining him in his wagon against me?
3.) You voted (well, FoS'd Rioku, because you were already voting him in RVS) Rioku because you didn't like his attack on Trendall. I didn't necessarily like it either, but I wouldn't call it scummy. Atleast he gives reasons to his votes, hell, even if I don't agree with them, I like it when people give reasons.

1. I was suspecting you from your earlier voting on me and your "attack" on my defensiveness. That maybe added a little to it.
2. I wasn't suspicious of Esp at the time.
3. Are you referring to me not giving a reason on voting you? I already said I was running out of time.

I just haven't liked your behavior Scrambles. I feel like you've been giving strong "attacks" for little reason. I may not be explaining this as well as I should be, but your kind of behavior has usually been scummy when I've played in real life.

unvote: Rioku

vote: Scrambles

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

Somewhat. I was suspecting both you and Rioku, I decided to go with whoever other people were voting for.

*facepalm*

Yes, I voted for him because I wanted to have some vote out there.

*double facepalm*

I suspected Scrambles due to his, ferocity, for lack of a better word, in his attack on me. But I've now realized that could have been playing style rather than scummyness

I just haven't liked your behavior Scrambles. I feel like you've been giving strong "attacks" for little reason. I may not be explaining this as well as I should be, but your kind of behavior has usually been scummy when I've played in real life.

Oh, I see, so now my ferocious (RAAWWRRR!!!11!!one!) gameplay went from being scummy to not scummy, once I call you out for having errors. It all makes so much sense!


Just kidding.

HoS: Nobody

[IC]First off, sorry Esp for taking your IC role (lol), but the rarely used HoS stands for Hand Of Suspicion. It is the epitome of FoS-status, other than the only-used-once PoS.[/IC]

[Trendall]

Yeah, Mr Nobody is all over the shop right now.

Vote: Rioku243

He voted for me.

I don't find this in itself suspicious at all. This is blatantly just a completely random vote, not OMGUS.

I don't know.
*checks the wiki*
The wiki seems to suggest that it can be used by scum, but that it's also used as a random vote.

I don't like how he kind of like, doesn't construct his own argument here, but instead uses the Wiki to bail him out. He's effectively saying 'well, the Wiki says it can be town, so I'm town', which isn't really much of an argument.

Vote: Scrambles

I've had suspicions for some time now, but had decided to stick with where I was not feeling the time was right. Maybe I should have done this earlier.

Mr Nobody changes his vote for no apparent reason

I suspected Scrambles due to his, ferocity, for lack of a better word, in his attack on me.

Oh, apparently the reason was essentially OMGUS

For the time being I don't think I have much on anybody. I'll just go with my earlier

vote: Rioku

.
I still think there's a good chance your town, but you are currently scummiest to me.

Again, Mr Nobody changes his vote for no discernible reason, but Rioku had voted for him in the post before, so it could easily be another OMGUS

I just haven't liked your behavior Scrambles. I feel like you've been giving strong "attacks" for little reason. I may not be explaining this as well as I should be, but your kind of behavior has usually been scummy when I've played in real life.

unvote: Rioku

vote: Scrambles

It just gets comical here. Scrambles starts an argument against Mr Nobody, and in the next post down, Mr Nobody changes his vote to him.

So yeah, as much it pains me not to be voting for the guy who doesn't have an avatar.

UNVOTE: mallowgeno
VOTE: Mr Nobody

If the post below this contains Mr Nobody voting for me, I actually won't know whether to laugh or cry.

Random Notes

Trendall, I'm a brit aswell, specifically southern England ^_^

Yayy I'm at university in Newcastle at the moment, so the complete opposite end of the country to you, but my Dad lives in the south so I'm down there quite a lot.

[RandomMaster]

I have reread the thread, and I have a couple of suspicions:

1) Mr. Nobody. Not much I can add to what Trendall, Rioku and STDD have said already, such as the constant OMGUS and wagonning with no reason with Esp. Although there is one thing I would like to add:

I still think there's a good chance your town, but you are currently scummiest to me.

For me, this just screams as a fallback just in case if Rioku flips town, he could be like: "I had a gut feeling he was town". Also, how could you think that he could be town, yet the scummiest? Holy contradiction, Batman!

2) STDD. It's mostly because of this:

Well, that's saddening, because

their is a 14% chance our IC is scum

.

Let that sink in for a second. 14%. That is approx. 1 out of 7. Think about it. There are 9 players in this game, 2 of which are scum by the possible setups. So that's 2 out of 9, or in percentage, 22%. Possible slip? I'm not 100% sure. Explain.

3) Espeonage. This is kinda going with the fact that if Mr. N flips scum, but just his declaration that Mr. N. is town because of HOW he posted and not the CONTEXT. Just....just no.

Ok my town read on Nobody was purely based on post style not on actions.

Slight FoS: Rioku. Mostly because of basing a case on Trendall for not making a RVS vote. I already explained my view on this.

I'm getting town reads from Trendall and mallow, Trendall being the strongest. He seems to defend himself well and put his thoughts. My read on mallow is gut.

Funky and M&C should post now.

Vote: Mr. Nobody

[ScramblesTheDeathDealer]

Well, that's saddening, because

their is a 14% chance our IC is scum

.

Let that sink in for a second. 14%. That is approx. 1 out of 7. Think about it. There are 9 players in this game, 2 of which are scum by the possible setups. So that's 2 out of 9, or in percentage, 22%. Possible slip? I'm not 100% sure. Explain.

Mere math error, sorry. But no, wouldn't it be 11%? 100/9.

Meh, We're in summer.

[Espeonage]

What difference does that really make. UNVOTE: Mah Vote

[funkyzafara]

I'm sorry for not posting more, I've been really busy lately, but I've been checking in and reading almost every day.

Mr Nobody:

He's been very defensive, doing a couple of OMGUS votes, but I am not sure if that is actually a suspicious thing, as everyone is defensive for themselves if voted against. Still doesn't stop me from seeing scummy behavior here though.

Scrambles:

I cannot justify why, but I just have a bad feeling about you, sorry. It may be your avatar, or maybe I'm just reading your posts wrong, but you definitely seem scummy to me xD.

Esp:

The whole "teaming up" with Nobody in the early start of the topic, on top of the now, seemingly know-it-all IC, makes me suspicious against you.

Anyone else:

There's not anyone else I've really "noticed" being scummy yet, but I am still suspicious of everyone.

All-in-all I really don't see anyone I can fully vote on, as I am still very torn.