Mini 922 - Mafia in Mo Town [Game Over]

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Vote: DRK

Obv-SK.

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Oooh, ooh! I wanna play.

kyle99 - my beautiful little policy lynch
MonkeyMan576 - my other beautiful little policy lynch
Nikanor - o hi thar
DeathRowKitty - seriously, she's obviously the SK

Those are the only players I know past more than one or two games.

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Ass. Clearly, you should be voting for the SK.

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I would policy lynch kyle99, because in the games I've played with him, I've lynched him both as scum and as town, and there's not much distinction between the two.

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You see why I always want to lynch them?

lol

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...wait, where'd I miss someone suggesting we massclaim?

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@nik, me calling DRK the SK is a long and storied meta-joke between the two of us. SO KEEP YOUR PHALLIC IMAGERY TO YOURSELF.

@hito, I'm flattered you think I'm a catalyst. Quick, point to a meta example of my catalyst....ism.

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ITT Neto doesn't read closely

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Neto, who's scum?

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Scenario: give top three scum candidates or die.

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vote: neto

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I'm being slightly douchey, yes. But I find it hard to believe that people don't have at least SOME kind of opinion forming by page four. The idea wasn't "pick three or I'll lynch you and you die" I meant "If you had to pick three or die, who would your three be?". But then he challenged me and I had to vote.

Yeah, my vote'll stay there until Neto provides some semblance of content.

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Hey Nikanor, you wanna lynch Neto with me n' DRK?

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Are you saying defending yourself is scummy?

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How else would you suggest he deal with pressure?

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Do you think what he's doing is always a scum-tell, or can it be a town-tell?

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Unvote

. My pressure vote did what I wanted it to and started discussion. The fact that Sak jumped on the wagon then couldn't adequately explain himself is enough to warrant a vote from me.

Vote: Sakako

.

I was hoping Nik would post before the wagon was derailed, but alas, Sakako is a much better vote. Huzzah!

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1) How was I making Neto repeat himself?

2) That's pretty typical of an OMGUS vote: vote me with some loose reasoning strung together and say it's not OMGUS. In fact, you're saying "There's an off-chance you could have had this whole thing set up from the start and tried to trip Neto up, which in turn tripped me up, and now you're trying to pin it on me." Think about it, folks - in order for Sak's weak theory to be true, he's saying I basically counted on him coming to Neto's aid. Because if my goal was to entrap Neto, why'd I back off the dude the moment I saw a real opportunity?

3) Aside from all of that - even if I wasn't just voting Neto for pressure and it was a serious attempt at a lynch wagon - I find it convenient that you've now hopped on the two leading wagons when they both had two votes on them. You just skyrocketed from being maybe scum to likely scum.

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What changed between your vote and your previous post that made you decide to vote now?

As I stated in the vote post, I was hoping to draw out more discussion from at least Nikanor, but you already jumped the gun, so at that point there was no need to keep it a secret.

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Monkey and Sakako are a potential scumteam.

Discuss.

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I don't get the Monkey wagon. After re-reading the last few pages, he just seems more like a townie who has stumbled over himself trying to explain himself. When I read Sakako, it seems more like scum doing two things: passively trying to throw suspicion, AND not really taking a strong stance either way on anyone. I think a newbie scum tactic would be to hold off on naming suspects/flinging shit in anyone's direction so that the spotlight is not on them, and that seems to be what Sakako is doing.

Also, ATTENTION EVERYONE: PLEASE STOP SAYING YOU ARE BAD AT SCUMHUNTING/DON'T SCUMHUNT AND AT LEAST TRY. IF YOU ARE JUST GOING TO BITCH AND MOAN THE WHOLE GAME ABOUT HOW BAD YOU ARE AT SCUMHUNTING, REPLACE THE FUCK OUT. THANK YOU.

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Despite hito being a mostly neutral read for me right now, his post regarding Sakako's 102 is both funny AND reaffirms everything I thought about Sakako. This isn't just Sakako prying for information - it's an attempt at a case to lynch, and a poor one at that. Sakako needs waaaay more votes.

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Sak's motivations are scummy. Townies should worry about scumhunting, no standing out or blending in.

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Unvote, Vote: kyle99

What. The. Fuck.

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You lurk your ass off, then come in and put Sakako at L-1 by repeating the same argument used by other people (which is, IMO, the WORST reason to be lynching him at the moment).

No

other content in the game whatsoever.

Sakako is still scummy (and not because he's, as some of you put it, "not playing"). But kyle's L-1 vote is waaaay more deserving of a vote right now.

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No, but those other people have generally been active and provided content.

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It's rare I find this many scum candidates among the town. Reading Sakako again... I'm in limbo with him. He's seemingly

too scummy

to be scum. I know people think it's a null tell or logical fallacy, but I don't think 1) that Sakako is an experienced enough player to really use a null tell like that to his advantage on purpose and 2) that Sakako-scum would be as blatantly defeatist in his attitude. I kinda empathize with his frustration to an extent: I remember back when I seemingly couldn't win a game so I just kept on playing newbie games or giving up when I would always get run up to a lynch wagon. Hell, I even made a GD topic asking people why I suck so much.

At the same time, that whole thing is VERY AtE, which is scummy, I guess. I just really want a kyle lynch for D1, as I think it'd be more helpful in the long run. I would probably lynch Sakako today if worst came to worst, but a MonkeyMan lynch is out of the question for me. I'm just not seeing his scummyness, and Neto's case on him is full of null tells IMHO.

I do think a Sakako flip would be more beneficial, information-wise, since his wagon has had the most interesting activity on it. A kyle99 lynch might not be as informational... but it'd remove that WIFOM target for the rest of the game. EVERY game I've played with kyle99 has turned into him either being a scum lynch or a mislynch at some point. Never a night kill.

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Hmm. I guess I can see AGM's point. But do you not agree that his vote on Sakako was lurky and opportunistic?

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Hmm. I guess I can see AGM's point. But do you not agree that his vote on Sakako was lurky and opportunistic?

So you agree that Sakako is is more scummy than me, and that his lynch would yield more information, yet you still want to lynch me?

Where the hell did I say I think Sakako is

more

scummy than you? SWEET BLATANT MISREP SCUM.

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Misrepresentation Team: Monkey x Kyle?

^_^;

Do you honestly believe we've pegged two of the scum on D1? This early?

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No, I'm trying to hunt, though. I'd like to hear your opinion on this, Reck. what do you think about the

possibility

?

Sure - it'd be nice if that was true, but I just think the statistical likelihood of that happening is slim to none. Honestly, I think it's much more likely that one of them is scum, and we haven't even touched on the other scum yet due to lurkerness.

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Geez I dont' know, a bunch of people. What has nik done, for instance, other than closely monitor the vote count and post one-liners w/ happy faces? No one thinks that's strange?

unvote, vote nik

I don't necessarily find that INCREDIBLY strange because Nik lurks a lot. >.>

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You mean out of kyle and you?

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Well, no, out of Kyle and Monkey, cause you said it was much more likely for one of those to be scum than both.

I don't...

What is...

I'm trying...

...I've clearly stated multiple times that I would not support a MM wagon at this juncture, and would support a kyle99 lynch, and would probably still support a Sakako lynch.

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Mod: please prod/replace Nikanor

I prodded him this morning. He answered to my prod. I'm not going to replace him since he responded in thread with an intention of keeping posting. Patience. The only person currently close to a prod is almightybob. ~KittyMo

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Nikanor wagon =/= productive

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kyle, you really need to learn how to play mafia. Only posting when you're asked a question is the worst goddamn strategy ever.

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Unvote, Vote: kyle99

What. The. Fuck.

Nikanor wagon =/= productive

kyle, you really need to learn how to play mafia. Only posting when you're asked a question is the worst goddamn strategy ever.

Yet youre still on the niko wagon?

Sorry didn't see you had voted kyle already, reck

I voted kyle forever ago. I don't understand this whatsoever. I'm resisting every urge in my body to put a vote down on you because you're either not paying attention as town or scum loosely paying attention and trying to twist things into scumminess that isn't there.

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@hito: I'd like to get your reads on Monkey, Kyle, and Sakako at this stage in the game.

@Monkey: how sure are you that kyle is scum?

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I'm not sure on Monkey. I seem to always end up thinking he's scum at some point in every game I've played with him, but that's wound up with scum-Monkey getting lynched at least twice (that's probably ~50% of the games I've played with him), so I'm not sure how to take it. Same goes for kyle.

That being said, I can't let the whole "you're always scummy" meta turn me away from what could be a very possible scum candidate. I'd rather lynch kyle still at this point. I don't think they're both scum.

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TOWN-KYLE:
Empire Records mafia, where he was lynched D3

SCUM-KYLE:
Mayor Mafia, where he was lynched D3

I mean, it's really hard to distinguish between his play in either game. I mostly support a kyle lynch for these reasons: 1) he's scummy anyway, 2) if we don't lynch him now and he's town, he's a mislynch later at a crucial point in the game, 3) if we don't lynch him now and he's scum, he'll be allowed to float on by for too long.

Basically, we lose little as town by lynching kyle. If someone can pick something else out from the games I've provided meta-wise, maybe I'll reconsider. But for now, kyle lynch > other lynches.

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*sigh*

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Yeah, Nik, replace out.

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I agree with DRK's 344. One of those 3 are the best choice for today, we will get lots of information from their flips. Right now I would rather lynch Monkey.

Why Monkey over the other two? You spend this whole post talking about not liking Sakako's hopping, then point out Monkey's quick vote hop, but you say nothing about kyle. And, by your own logic, Sakako should be equally as viable as MonkeyMan... what makes MM's hopping scummier than Sak's?

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Did you read the games I posted for examples of both kyle's town and scum meta?

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Hmm. DRK makes a good point regarding vigs.

Problem is, I don't know where to place my vote between Sakako and MonkeyMan at this point. They both stand equal chances of being scum vs. poor-playing town.

Unvote

, at any rate.

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For the record, I don't think kyle is a bad lynch. He's a great lynch... he's just an even better vig-kill (on the off-chance we have a vig).

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@hito: I'd like to get your reads on Monkey, Kyle, and Sakako at this stage in the game.

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No, I'm not 'eager' to do anything. I can give you a scum list right now if you want. I have my suspicions, and I'll see where they lie.

And technically, we've got three viable lynch candidates on D1, which is a lot better than most games which end up in either "ZOMG RANDOM WAGON TO L-1!" territory or "ZOMG IT HAS TO BE ONE OF THESE TWO" territories. We have a much better chance that one of Monkey/kyle/Sakako is scum than just one or two of them.

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Whoa sniped

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Mod, vote count?

I'm too lazy to do it myself.

Done!

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Nik needs to be force replaced regardless.
Lowell and Sakako need to put their votes elsewhere. It's scummy to have your votes on the "safe" idle/inactive player.

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@hito: what about waiting to see if a vig can take care of kyle?

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Unvote, Vote: Nikanor

I'm sorry, but if THAT is the best case you can come up with, you need to be lynched. Your chronic lurking is hurting town; and when you finally do get a post in, you point out some random post of AGM's and make a comment about it, then throw down a vote? That's not a case. It's a comment. And you conveniently don't want to join any of the current lynch wagons... why's that? We got the noose around your scumbuddy's throat?

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I'm not sure how you don't think anything Sakako/kyle/MonkeyMan have done is scummier than one random quote from Alamaster.

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Do you not think Nik's piss-poor attempt to paint AGM as scummy is ill-intended?

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Nikanor could be scum protecting a scum buddy, scum trying to stay off a town wagon, or town going after someone he honestly thinks is scum.

I think at this point, we

need

to lynch Monkey, kyle, or Sakako. The information and analysis it will provide on D2 would be fantastic.

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Why couldn't any of those three be scum?

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I'm not saying we HAVE to lynch one of them... if you'd like to try and start another viable wagon before deadline (which, NEWSFLASH, is six days away), be my guest. I'm kinda in this "ugh, they're all scummy" grey area with all three of them right now, and I need to go back and re-read. I called Sakako poor town or newb town, but then again, there's a very fine line between newbtown and newbscum. Monkey and kyle's meta line up with them being scummy as hell right now, but then again, I've lynched them BOTH as scum AND town using the said meta, so it's almost a null tell.

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Unvote, Vote: MonkeyMan

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MM is the scummiest out of kyle99 and him and Sakako. Sakako reads like newbtown/newbscum, which can be dealt with later. kyle99 is lurking as usual and his play is consistent with both town and scum reads. Monkey is, however, playing much like his scum meta in Revenge of the Crimson King.

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We need more Monkey in this hizzouse.
I'm satisfied with Almaster's answers, so I'll

Unvote.

Useful.

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Monkey, claim please (or did I already miss that?).

kyle's post 453 is interesting, and I'm going to tag it so I remember to point us back to it after Monkey's flip.

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As I said, I'll explain post-Monkey flip.

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Unvote.

Though I'm not sure I buy it. JOAT seems abnormal for a...well...mini normal. In any case, I now want to look at alternate candidates, so it'll take me a minute.

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Not really an unlikely fake claim - think about it...

Claim RB for the vig, doc result can never be confirmed, claim inno on inv, and I dunno what the fourth would be.

Monkey, what are your four abilities?

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Wow. My earlier post didn't go through.

the tl;dr version of it: kyle-wagon is still viable. I think now I'd prefer a Netopalis wagon to a Sakako wagon. MM's claim is slightly unbelievable but I'm willing to give him a night or two to work things out.

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That's why JOAT is such a good fake-claim for Monkeyscum. In fact, I

never

vote for a un-CC'd power role on D1... but let's look at the facts here:

1) Monkey was misrepping hardcore for the majority of the day and was only attacking viable alternatives to his lynch wagon instead of scumhunting.

2) AtE: "You guys are gonna lynch me anyway what's the point bawwwwwwwwww"

3) His claim is almost a sure-fire un-CC'd claim because of how rare it is.

4) As far as scum fake-claims go, this one is as safe as you can get.
4a) Track: Pull the "I tracked my scumbuddy" bluff, or just wait until like N4 to use this one so you're already nearly at the endgame by then
4b) Investigate: Claim innocent on any random townie.
4c) Protect: Almost impossible to screw up a fake protection... how is anyone gonna know?
4d) Watch: Can just claim roleblocked, or you can claim nobody visited someone and hope for the best.

Summary: Monkey was acting scummy all day, used AtE when faced with his claim, then finally claimed a role that is both rare (and therefore unlikely to have a counterclaim) and with enough abilities to where he can use Investigate and Protect to glide by on D2 and D3, then bullshit his way through D4 and D5 with the track/watch claims.

I searched around, and while Netopolis is my 2nd/3rd choice, neither he nor kyle99 are nearly as scummy in iso as MonkeyMan. I've lynched him as scum before, and I'd like to do it again, and I'm not going to let a well-crafted fake claim scare me off.

Vote: MonkeyMan

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WHY IS IT A WEAK CASE? HOW IS IT A WEAK CASE?

Instead of basically turning this into "no u", why don't you provide some goddamn reasoning instead of "Lol. You guys stoopid. You be sowwy."

Can we lynch this scumbag already?

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Monkey, you were scummy long before your claim. IT'S WHY YOU HAD TO CLAIM.

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Attention: I've never seen a JOAT with anything but 4 powers

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Holy shit can we lynch this scumbag right now?

GUYZ LOOK IM JOAT

JK GUYZ LEMME CHANGE MY CLAIM NOW

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Lying isn't as scummy as you think it is. In fact, this makes me think Monkey is town (scum would have absolutely no reason to go back on a PR claim unless he was caught by a rolecop or something).

Unless you know they see "Hey we should make Monkey use track tonight!" and he's like "Oh fuck I can't bullshit that" so he's like "o guyz i was jk ab the claim lulz"

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What the fucking fuckity fuck stick are you talking about?

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What does that have anything to do with my 571 or 574?

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...another misrep? Oh joy! Except now you're just pulling shit out of your ass completely instead of only partially.

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Okay, let me try and understand what the FUCK is going on right now. Please note the bold.

Lying isn't as scummy as you think it is. In fact, this makes me think Monkey is town (

scum would have absolutely no reason to go back on a PR claim

unless he was caught by a rolecop or something).

Unless you know

they see

"Hey we should make Monkey use track tonight!" and he's like "Oh fuck I can't bullshit that" so he's like "o guyz i was jk ab the claim lulz"

scum = non-gender-specific they

Now, I'm going to ignore MM's huge misrep at this point, because maybe he really is that dumb. But uh. If you're not on MonkeyMan after THIS, I'm not sure what your problem is:

I wasn't worried about proving my "powers", I would have just claimed to be roleblocked.

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I haven't had much time to get down good solid content in this game and I really don't want the day to end without me having anything down because I know if I don't add anything that's one less townie pushing the game and the less townies pushing the game the easier it is for scum to do so.

So uh... who cares? If you're confident we're lynching scum, then you're confident we're lynching scum. It doesn't matter if you have nothing down... as town, your only goal needs to be to LYNCH SCUM, not APPEAR TOWNIE.

Huge Fucking Hand... Nay, Arm of Suspicion: hito

.

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ALSO, why is Monkey's wagon analysis sooo important to do right now before the day ends? Just hammer the guy if you're sure he's town. Are you really trying to start a counter-wagon on your scum buddy this late into the day?

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+town points for kyle

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But your overall vibe of your post wasn't "Hey guys, let's take a moment and talk", it was "I don't look townie enough yet".

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FoS: hito

Seriously, his end of D1 play was atrocious. He's worried about 'being dead weight for the town' and trying to hold up the MonkeyMan lynch. Which, I don't really

mind

considering the circumstances... however... I just can't get this nagging feeling out of my head that hito was scum trying to get town points by staying off the wagon.

Hito, did you

ever

go back and do your "wagon analysis and questioning of its prime suspects"? Also, I'll probably be going back and setting my sights on a certain 3-4 people. But I oh so anxiously await hito's reply.

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@Nik: you believe all three scum are on that wagon?

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I think MM was so freeeeekin scummy, its a big gamble to assume all scum were on his wagon.

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There's a serious problem with Monkey's flip: I can't honestly call anyone on his wagon scummy, because Monkey's play was horrible, and the rotten cherry on top was him taking back his fakeclaim. Nikanor is giving me aggressive scum vibes, and couple that with the fact that I have a pretty solid town read on almightybob... well, it makes Nikanor look even scummier.

"ALL THE SCUM WERE ON THE MONKEYMAN WAGON!!!!"
- That's 1) not verifiable and 2) out of any day one wagon EVER, this is the one I can honestly say is possibly completely town-driven because of how bad Monkey's play was.

"YAY LYNCH ALL LIARS. BOO LYNCH ALL LURKERS."
- IMO, Liars is a better policy. Truth and deductive reasoning are the towns tools. Scum lie and manipulate. If someone is lying, lynch them. Lurking is a null tell, since that person will either 1) be replaced or 2) just isn't that into the game anyway. I know I've lurked through more games as VT than I have as scum because not having a power role can bore me sometimes if it's not the right environment.

"WIFOM ALERT!"
- Alerting us it's WIFOM doesn't change the fact that it's WIFOM.

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Also Reck, my WIFOM is perfectly valid. I'd like for you to find flaw in it. Prove to me why the contrary to that argument is true, and I'll accept that I am wrong.

I already did yesterday. I said that MonkeyMan probably claimed, realized we were going to tell him which abilities to use that night (so he couldn't doc protect and claim that was his JOAT use). After he realized his claim would be undone, he went back on it and thought claiming he is VT now instead would look like a town gambit. Instead, it looked like a blatant scum gambit (and obviously the vast majority of the town agree with me), and got a member of the town lynched.

To say it is pro-town to lie about your role then reveal that you are lying is quite frankly wrong. Even if what I said was WIFOM, you can't prove anything you're saying is anything more than WIFOM. At the best, it's a null tell - and even that null tell on top of how shitty MM had been playing would've been enough for a lynch for most people.

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Don't worry Esp. I'm all for a kyle wagon. I know it's hypocritical, but his hammer came at a time when we could've gleaned more info in retrospect.

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He advocates lynch all liars in the RVS, even in a joking manner. Contrast this against his later stance on the matter.

Not to mention, just iso him and read through his first 14 posts in the topic. They're all lurky - promises to catch up, bitching about how many posts there are, etc. When he finally does post ANYTHING of content, it's a half-assed case on AGM. He says at least one of them is scum, then puts a vote on AGM when there are two viable wagons on MonkeyMan and Sakako. I can't in all good faith give him town points for this seeing as how he COMPLETELY ignored the two main wagons for the day.

When pressured further on it, he simply says "I don't think the current wagons are adequate". No specific points he disagrees with, no kind of defense, nothing. He continues to imply that there's no way MM kyle or Sak are scum, but refuses to give reasons. And how about this:

Oh. I thought you would just lurk and not reread and then jump on the Monkey wagon, kyle. Well played.
I didn't actually think kyle was town, btw. Now I'm seeing more town in him, though.
kyle, want to join me on the Almaster wagon?

How about that hammer on MM, eh Nik?

He then unvotes once his awful AGM case doesn't get any traction, then blatantly wagons Neto WITH NO REASONING BEHIND HIS VOTE WHATSOEVER. He continues to beg for a Neto wagon and never gives any reasoning or presents a case.

His iso 37 is 1) arrogant as hell and 2) scummy as hell. He says he's going to start policy lynching anyone who uses Lynch all Liars as their argument (hmm... didn't he do that in the RVS?). He uses faulty logic and says anyone who wasn't on the MM wagon is auto-town... despite the fact that MM played like shit and was very scummy and could easily draw a bunch of town support while the scum just sat by and watched. WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM.

His current back and forth with bob is just mind-numbingly awful and makes me want to jab golf pencils into my eyes.

Anyway, Nikanor has posted faux-content this entire game and has tried to pass it off as him doing some active scumhunting, when in fact he hasn't. A lot of his points are made using WIFOM and... yeah... he's just so blatantly lurker-scum-who-tried-vehemently-to-stay-off-the-mislynch-then-start-firing-at-everyone-who-was-on-the-wagon, I can't not

Vote: Nikanor

.

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Nothing about my case on Nikanor, kyle?

>.>

I'm aware of what I said. This was also when I thought we'd have sure-fire scum flipping for us. You however have yet to make a case or present any content either way. So stop using bullshit fucking excuses and either contribute or replace out.

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This game feels weird to me. I can really see a few scummy people, but no connections. Furthermore, I feel like this was the most info-generating D1 ever. I'm tempted to vote Lowell, but I want to see his reaction/response to Neto first.

PS, this could be a bus.

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obv bus is obv.

QFT

Vote: Lowell

The fact that Neto's 655 was possibly a bus-case doesn't change the fact that he raised good points and possibly just got his scumbuddy lynched. If only one of them is scum, though, it's probably Lowell.

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Sorry guys, I'm still here and reading along. I don't have much to say at this point. I've been kinda scatterbrained since my car wreck. I'll try and contribute more.

Ouch! Hope you're okay from the wreck! Good to see you here. ~Kitty

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I think the dropped suspicion of Sakako is more like, he was never really THAT suspicious in the first place, sort of thing.

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Lowell's catch up post better be a fucking Pulitzer Prize winner.

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Zach, just give us your thoughts.

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Yeah, the first half didn't impress me at all.

The second half seemed like attempts to join already-viable wagons. The reasoning/analysis behind the players is decent for the first three, but I'm not liking the end of the second half. He basically throws town reads towards kyle and AGM for nothing more than 'gut'. Somehow, kyle's hammer makes him town. I don't get it. Then the rest of the players in the game are all just really ambiguous reads.

My vote stays.

[xRECKONERx]

I would link to an ongoing game where I, as scum, literally did the EXACT same thing (going "What the hell." and hammering) and playing it off as "I didn't know blah blah blah wanted to find out blah blah blah no other wagon was happening blah blah blah". But, I can't link to it. Note: I got lynched as scum the day after pulling that stunt. Huh. Funny, isn't it?

[xRECKONERx]

The first thing.

What do you mean I'm ignoring you? *goes back to re-read posts*

I don't see anything I need to respond to... unless you mean how you call me scum because I had a few of the same thoughts as bob on Lowell's meh catchup post, then say you're gonna lynch me tomorrow... in which case, there's nothing to respond to there, because you have no case on me, just a hunch.

And uh, I responded to your 716. So I honestly have no fucking clue what you mean when I say I'm ignoring you.

[xRECKONERx]

We only have a week till deadline.

@bob/Sakako/Zach:

I want your opinions of Lowell and Netopolis.

[xRECKONERx]

hito, seriously, could you fence sit any more in that last paragraph? "Town does it, but scum do it too" then you somehow say it's a scumtell based off of, what can I gather, is meta reasoning. Mind providing examples for this meta?

[xRECKONERx]

@AGM: I agree with your second paragraph. I do, however, see hito's point when he says:

What motivation would I have as scum to avoid the Monkey wagon that I wouldn't have as town?

Not because he avoided it, but because he was, for all intents and purposes, "on the wagon". He never tried to pass off his avoidance of the Monkey wagon as pro-town, which is IMO just a few minor town points in his favor. But like I said, his reasoning for not hammering Monkey in the first place was awful, because there's nothing he could post D1 that he couldn't post D2, so the scum/town points kinda cancel each other out.

I think we need to see some scumlists. Anyone up for a round of scumlists?

[xRECKONERx]

Then it's a null tell.

[xRECKONERx]

Everyone should vote, dammit.

Zach, who is scum? You should've reread by now.

[xRECKONERx]

Lowell case > Neto case

[xRECKONERx]

I'll do a bigger post later. I'm getting drunk and playing WoW.

[xRECKONERx]

AGM.
DEADLINE.

[xRECKONERx]

It's weak. Doesn't mean your not scum, just means his case is weak.

[xRECKONERx]

Well, Sak was town.

Assuming 3 scum (which is standard for this set-up), it might be in our best interest to no-lynch today.

Scenario: mislynch today, scum kill overnight, game over

My scenario: no lynch today, scum kill overnight, 7 person lylo tomorrow

Vote: No Lynch

Unless my math is wrong.

[xRECKONERx]

PS Lowell's head in noose next plz kthx

[xRECKONERx]

@Everyone:

In your opinion, was the Neto wagon scum driven?

[xRECKONERx]

Wait, are people really no lynching? Why are we (a) assuming 3 scum, and (b) assuming town doesnt have something like a doc to fight back? Also, do we think scum are goint to knock out one of our leading suspects overnight? Won't scum just get a free offing of someone generally agreed to be town? You really think scum are kicking themselves right now that we've discovered this awesome strategy?

No lynch is pointless at best, terrible at worst.

I'm sorry, this logic is awful.

a) Please point me to a 12 player game with one NK every night and anything other than 3 scum. It's pretty much standard at this point - for every exception to the rule, I can find twenty that follows is.

b) If town has doctor, then they'd only have a 1/7 chance to select the right target (assuming no self-protects)... and what if THEY get targeted?

Now, let's be smart and start using non-scum-motivated logic: a no lynch guarantees that we won't lose overnight AND any protective roles could still stop the kill. If we lynch today (which, if we did, I'd be coming at you with a vengeance at this point) then we're risking killing a townie and given scum the win overnight.

[xRECKONERx]

I'd like to know what town can possibly gain by discussion today. All it will do is help scum since we're no lynching.

[xRECKONERx]

You know that that was a hammer, right? It only takes four people to nolynch with six alive....

[4] No Lynch - (xRECKONERx, hitogoroshi, Espeonage, Lowell)

[xRECKONERx]

Fucking tags.

[xRECKONERx]

Nothing in this ruleset about L/2 no lynch.

[xRECKONERx]

No more discussion until the mod shows up, please.

[xRECKONERx]

Because it can

only

help scum to discuss anything on a no lynch. I want them to have to discuss and decide with the exact same information they had last night. More information = more informed decision on their part.

[xRECKONERx]

Alright, well... I'm going to assume we're in LyLo. A massclaim is usually primary operating procedure at this point, but I'm only gonna go for it if a majority want to do it.

Personally, I'd be 100% okay just lynching Lowellscum and skipping the massclaim, but I want to hear from everyone else first.

[xRECKONERx]

I'd be okay with that, but we'd need to decide a way to order it. Like, Nik is #0, then we assign everyone else #1-#6 and roll a d6. That way there's no scum partners trying to toss the next claim to each other in order to set each other up or any kind of possible scum manipulation.

Happy Scumday! Speaking of which, HOLYCRAPMYSCUMDAYIS2DAYSAFTERYOURS. Can't believe it's almost been a whole year. It's blowing my mind. Yours as well? ~KittyMo

[xRECKONERx]

Nikanor, claim. Go.

[xRECKONERx]

A bit of wagon analysis while we wait

D1 Vote Count:

[7]

MonkeyMan576

- (AlmasterGM, almightybob,

Espeonage

, xRECKONERx,

Netopalis

, Lowell, kyle99)
[3]

Netopalis

- (

DeathRowKitty

, Nikanor,

Sakako

)
[1]

Sakako

- (

MonkeyMan576

)
[1] kyle99 - (hitogoroshi)


D2 Vote Count:

[6]

Netopalis

- (Nikanor,

Espeonage

, AlmasterGM,

Sakako

, almightybob, Lowell)
[3] Lowell - (hitogoroshi,

Netopalis

, xRECKONERx)
[1] Nikanor - (Zachrulez)

Oh, and when I said this way back when, I meant it... and I kinda think kyle replacing out has allowed Zach to fly under the radar.

You lurk your ass off, then come in and put Sakako at L-1 by repeating the same argument used by other people (which is, IMO, the WORST reason to be lynching him at the moment).

No

other content in the game whatsoever.

Sakako is still scummy (and not because he's, as some of you put it, "not playing"). But kyle's L-1 vote is waaaay more deserving of a vote right now.

[xRECKONERx]

Based on what I'm seeing on D1's wagon, I'm seeing something fairly obvious: we had three confirmed townies with votes on them D1. Also, Nikanor is the only one on the Neto wagon D1 who hasn't been confirmed as town. Likewise, I'm not sure how I feel about the MonkeyMan wagoners - I know I am one of them, but MonkeyMan played like shit on D1, so I'm not irrational enough to think that scum could've just hid out elsewhere (see: Nikanor on Netopalis, hitogoroshi on kyle99).

Nikanor does look pretty scummy after that wagon analysis: stay off the MonkeyMan wagon and claim everyone on it is dumb/scummy/etc (anyone remember the stink he raised at the end of D1 about the MM wagon?), get on the Netopalis wagon, then open up D2 with a solid, viable wagon. He kinda flies under the radar for being the first to vote Neto.

Meanwhile, my second pick for scum (kyle99/Zachrulez) has an interesting vote pattern as well. First, we have kyle putting Sakako at L-1 after lurking his ass off (see: my quoted post). Then he nonchalantly hops on the MonkeyMan wagon to hammer it. D2, Zach replaces him, and what happens? Zach votes Nikanor when a Neto wagon is inevitable. Bus bus bus bus bus bus bus. Zach probably knew that Nikanor was likely going to be under heavy suspicion and wanted to play his cards right.

Again, this is all speculation... but based on the wagon analysis, I can't come up with anything particularly solid outside of that scenario I outlined. Then again, that leaves the question of who the third scum is... and I've got a few potential suspects, but nothing solid.

[xRECKONERx]

Mod, please get Nikanor's sorry ass in here to massclaim.

Lowell, you're still on my scumlist... you were on the tail end of BOTH townie lynch wagons.

[xRECKONERx]

Way to mention my name for the first time ever and say I'm a good lynch without providing much basis for it.

ObvscumbussingLowell much?

[xRECKONERx]

Vanilla Townie here.

Lowell is really really scummy and I'm starting to see Lowell/Nikanor/Zach as a potential scumteam.

Claim list:

Zachrulez - 1
almightybob - 2

xRECKONERx

(VT)
Lowell - 3
AlmasterGM - 4

Nikanor

(VT)
hitogoroshi - 5

d5 = 439464796

[xRECKONERx]

Lowell's next.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm totally buying the Mason claim. Though unless hito claims some power role, that would mean masons + tracker vs scum, and I can't help but think scum must have a power role. Though, that's outguessing the mod, and I don't wanna get into that.

I'm putting myself out on a limb here and saying I'll trust the masons though.

[xRECKONERx]

Here's where I stand today -

WON'T LYNCH

AlamasterGM
Zachrulez
xRECKONERx (duh)

MIGHT LYNCH

almightybob
hitogoroshi

WANT TO LYNCH

Lowell
Nikanor

[xRECKONERx]

I'm really really really sure Lowell is scum, but I'm really really sure Nikanor is too, so I'd be okay with either today.

Out of bob & hito, I'd rather lynch hito. But I'm less sure about those two - it's about 55% hito, 45% bob, because neither has done anything incredibly scummy in my mind.

[xRECKONERx]

BEST MOD EVER.

Well, Boredest-in-class Mod Ever. ~Kitty

[xRECKONERx]

Let me just get this out of the way: is there anyone here who disbelieves the mason claims?

Also, can I get a "won't lynch", "might lynch", and "want to lynch" list from everyone?

[xRECKONERx]

Sooo you think there are only two scum, bob? Who's the third?

[xRECKONERx]

How about just answer the question Bob?

[xRECKONERx]

STOP!

...Hammertime!

Vote: Nikanor

diescumdie

[xRECKONERx]

lyingscum

[xRECKONERx]

I always drop quickhammers on obvscum.

[xRECKONERx]

Whoa, glad my Lowell case didn't pick up steam.

[xRECKONERx]

Forgot to add: FLAWLESS VICTORY

[xRECKONERx]

Lowell did you breadcrumb traitor?

[xRECKONERx]

I had AGM pegged for traitor, hito had Bob and Esponage.

[xRECKONERx]

Well done Mafia. Reck had me fooled good. That's twice now. Note to self: If you think Reck is Town, he's scum.

I've been told when people think I'm scum, I'm town. And when people think I'm town, I'm scum. Will work to change that.

[xRECKONERx]

Whoo! Thanks guys =D