Open 194- Vengeful Reasons- GAME OVER!

[The Tracker]

Woot! Day 1! Nice to be playing with Budja again. Anyway...

vote: Jackabomb

This guy says he's out to get me, so obviously I have to defend myself.

[The Tracker]

Silly Jackabomb, you can still use knives to carry out the execution.^^ I like knives. They make me feel all tingly.^^

[The Tracker]

I just realized my mistake, Emp.

vote: Jackabomb

[The Tracker]

Ewkay, since this game has officially ground to a halt, so to get discussion going what do you guys think of Memorial not posting yet? I personally don't appreciate the lurking, but apparantly it's all the rage in this thread anyways.

[The Tracker]

I didn't vote because I didn't see a reason to. It's page 1. I don't find a serious vote warrants much thought as of now. I was just trying to pick up discussion, that's all.

@Emp: Too soon to tell for sure, but I will say it's cause for suspect. Nothing's really pinging on my radar, but it's definitely something to keep an eye on.

[The Tracker]

I know what you mean, but still it would be nice to drop a post every now and then so we know you're at least still invested in the game.

[The Tracker]

Sorry! I forgot I was in a mafia game again

*facepalm*

[The Tracker]

Tracker:
So you wanted to pick up discussion on MR, but think it's too soon to talk about anything else...?

Slow down, little buddy. I meant it was too early for me to get a decent read. I never said it was too early to talk about it, etc.

[The Tracker]

@Emp: Too soon to tell for sure, but I will say it's cause for suspect. Nothing's really pinging on my radar, but it's definitely something to keep an eye on.

This is my response. Please pick out exactly where I said I didn't care. You either misinterpreted it or you're scum trying to lynch me. I said it's something to keep an eye on. I said it was too early for me to make an accurate read on them. If you wanted to discuss them, sure, I'd discuss it but you asked me a direct question and therefore gave a direct answer.

[The Tracker]

It has to be a very reasonable suspicion in my mind. Since the day just started, I have no reasonable suspicions right now.

[The Tracker]

I answered your question already. I didn't answer vaguely on purpose. If it seems that way to you, then that's an issue you yourself need to deal with. I never said I didn't care, nor that I didn't want to talk about them.

See, you're assuming things. You assume based on 1 post that I'm tunneling on MR. I'm not. So I'll just say this: You're making an ass out of yourself for your assumptions.

[The Tracker]

Fine fine.

unvote

@Emp: I'm sorry, but I have no clue what you're getting at. I am not saying 1 is false and 2 is true. I said I was not a fan of MR's lurking. Then when you asked about AM's and Cat's, I said it was too soon to tell if there's anything scummy about it, then I said it was reason for suspect. In summation, all lurking is cause for suspect.

I'm sorry dude, but I wouldn't insult you or call you scum if you could wrap your head around the simple concept that I never said or attempted to imply that I was going after so-and-so while leaving others alone. You're looking for gold in a coal mine and getting frustrated that you didn't notice that yet.

[The Tracker]

@Emp: This conversation bores me. Merely trying to start discussion doesn't warrant this ridiculous amount of attack.

@Jack: *claps* Good for you.

I'm more concerned about MR, but I definitely need to look at what Cat says when he comes back on.

[The Tracker]

Well, if we're comparing the two then I would personally say Cat is worse since she's played on other forums. At least MR has the "I was dead or otherwise incapacitated" defense (as shallow and pedantic as such a defense may be), but it's something. Cat right now is giving me a feel that she wants to stay hidden and off the radar, although ironically it's backfiring in the worst possible way. I'll give it a bit, see if anything else happens then vote either Cat or MR in the end.

[The Tracker]

@Jack: Tunneling? Really? REALLY? REALLY????????

Anyway, I don't have a lot of suspicions besides the lurkers (other than Budja totally vanishing after dropping a vote with no explanation, but I'm almost positive that's how he plays regardless of role). You would think I suspect Emp, but I'm getting more a zealous Townie feel. I mean, he's trying to find scum despite the fact he's looking in the wrong places. And forgetting about this game is no excuse. There's a watch topics button. It should be used.

[The Tracker]

*sigh*
No, not really tracker. It's just the term I chose to use to exemplify my confusion over why you chose MR over cat. You seriously have to stop exploding every time someone says something about you that isn't along the lines of, "Tracker is the most pro-town player and awesome person in the world. I would never lynch him!"

Sir, I exploded because of you accusing me of tunnelvision. And once again, there is nothing wrong with defending yourself.

[The Tracker]

I mean, I thought I knew why tracker was tunneling on MR

I read your post. I was explaining why I said "Really? REALLY? REALLY?????" This was why I said it. It seemed you were accusing me of tunneling which is just plain untrue.

And what's wrong with being explosive? What do you want me to do, fold my arms in my lap and respond with all the emotion of Ben Stein? How dull.

[The Tracker]

Emp: Okay, that's your opinion. Obviously I haven't swayed it, but hell, I may as well give one more crack at it:

I did not pursue a case on MR. I had no intention to. I thought the thread needed some discussion so I just picked an arbitrary player that wasn't posting to see

other people's thoughts

and hope the thread picked up from there. Yes, I named a name. However, I did not say she was scummy, nor did I have an interest in making her out to be. It was an arbitrarily picked random name.

Now, as for your point to the others you asked me about, I was following my train of thought, not anybody else's. Since I was just trying to kickstart conversation and was not interested in pointing fingers I said it was too soon to point fingers.

And I apologize if I sounded rude earlier, but I've just been dealing with a shitstorm of stress from work, school, family, and my girlfriend, and Mafia isn't exactly a nice relaxing romp through the woods with the magical sunshine animal friends game.

@Jack: Well, since this is America I'm just going to play as I've been playing, because that's how I roll. USA! USA!

[The Tracker]

@Emp: I didn't mean to treat MR differently, if that makes any sense. I honestly don't know how to explain it better.

@Jack: I'm not changing my play style to suit the whims of the majority. Every individual person plays the game differently, and everyone else should just accept it as long as participation needs are met. If they aren't, then there's a problem. Not if someone is being active and posting content.

And my comment on the opinions was just me saying ,"Well okay, you think that but I disagree." I never said that any discussion is null and void.

[The Tracker]

Tracker you need to start reading my

entire

post. I said "where this looks to be

going

."

I'm not changing my play style to suit the whims of the majority.

That doesn't give you leave to be rude and over-reactive(which is normally a function of attitude as far as rudeness).

If I come off as rude I apologize. It's going to happen. I'm a combative person by nature. I get it. Water under the bridge, okay? Apologies all around. Now, let's get back to the game, shall we?

@Emp: Duly noted, and I see my mistake. I was being hardheaded. My fault.

Anyway, I agree with your summation about Cat. Even if you don't watch the topic, you should still remember you have a game. You should still have your role. There's no excuse to forget, which is why I'm not a fan of either Cat or MR right now. Angel needs to post more than she has been.

[The Tracker]

Hm...I'd probably be more comfortable with a Cat lynch myself. MR is gone off the face of the Earth now, so I'd rather hang on and wait to see if she posts a defense. Cat's been lurking and basically came on with half-baked attacks that made less sense than Bill Clinton at an abstinence convention.

So

vote: Cat

.

[The Tracker]

Play more newbie games, read the wiki, look for and seek constructive feedback, learn from past mistakes, and listen to advice.

This. If you just give up on ever being a good player, you may as well just replace out now and never play Mafia again. Harsh? Yes, but it's true. If you're interested in growing as a player, you'll throw yourself into the experience and try hard to improve. So stop making excuses and start trying to give us your A++ game.

Anyway, any thoughts on the game, MR? I'm sure you must have one or two opinions by now considering your lurking (oops, sorry, meant to say sitting back and observing) gave you plenty of time to form an opinion on a player or two.

[The Tracker]

Not a fan of angel. She's looking like she's active lurking right now, and that won't do. She needs to participate more, and she has certainly been rather wishy-washy. The only people she's looking at are the easy targets and Budja, although in Budja's case it's more OMGUS than anything.

[The Tracker]

To answer your first question, I said you were looking at them. By that I mean you were asking questions of them.

To answer your second question, yes, those are exactly the targets I mean. Why are they easy targets? Because everyone suspects them. Simple as that. And if you have looked at everyone you haven't shown it.

Yes, you did explain your absence. However, your absence according to you has been over for a couple days now.

[The Tracker]

Nope. I'm just stating how things look to me. Obviously you're going to disagree since this is all at you regardless of your alignment. Budja asked a question and I answered it, and you have asked me questions and I have answered them. That's all I'm doing.

[The Tracker]

I'm alive and here. Just not much has happened yet. Not really lurking as peeps were discussing play styles from games i wasn't part of although will skim later.

The pressure votes on MR don't raise any alarms and neither do the reactions. Maybe a further vote so L-1 would spark more movement, but i certainly wont do that considering the early nature of the game and no posts from him. Will wait for a post.

Other than that nobody has displayed anything to make me think scum or town for that matter.

This. She's saying she wants an L-1 but refuses to vote. Wishy-washy probably isn't the best way to describe it, though.

[The Tracker]

Yeah, I know what you mean. We got our choice of either a VI or a lurker.

[The Tracker]

I know that. MR's blatant refusal to participate and Cat's useless filler junk and "forgetting", right?

[The Tracker]

Okay, I'm down with the Cat is null angle if that's the case. Both Angel and MR are definitely scummy. I don't like the filler Angel's been posting, and I don't like MR basically saying he was useless and disappearing again.

I'm willing to give Cat the BotD for now. We have some nice juicy suspects either way.

[The Tracker]

unvote

Almost forgot.

[The Tracker]

Yeah, this is ridiculous. I'm tried of waiting around for them myself. Shall the VI die first?

vote: Memorable Raindrops

[The Tracker]

Any particular reason not cat? Just wondering, especially in light of this:

Hm...I'd probably be more comfortable with a Cat lynch myself. MR is gone off the face of the Earth now, so I'd rather hang on and wait to see if she posts a defense. Cat's been lurking and basically came on with half-baked attacks that made less sense than Bill Clinton at an abstinence convention.

What changed your mind?

Yeah, I changed my mind.

[The Tracker]

His game has been lurktastic in all games. For that I'm willing to give him the BotD for now since it may suggest he's V/LA. MR has no such excuse.

[The Tracker]

I'd prefer Cat get replaced as of now to tell the truth, but nothing we can do about that, I suppose. It's up to the mod.

[The Tracker]

Basically. But I wouldn't be too worried about that because I highly doubt you have a PR. To honest, I expect you're going to be lynched regardless.

[The Tracker]

Okay well I claim cop.

Thoughts on this? I highly doubt MR is the Cop since Cops generally try to not get lynched on Day 1 so they can have some use to the Town.

[The Tracker]

I don't see why the cop should counter claim if MR is lying. First of all, it's a macho cop so there's no chance of the cop being protected.

Honestly with the way he's been playing I see him as a liability cop or no cop. The way he claimed seems like scum trying to weasel out of the noose and his initial 'hesitance' could explain him being scum trying to pass himself off as Town. I'm still a really big fan of an MR lynch.

[The Tracker]

Just becuase he's "a liability" doesn't justify lynching him. Lynches are based on scumminess, not a person's usefulness.

I posted more than just saying he was a liability. I honestly believe he's scum fakeclaiming, that's all.

[The Tracker]

Guess it's angel by popular vote then, hm? Alright, I'm willing to go with the flow.

vote: angelmouse

[The Tracker]

The only way we'll know for sure if angel is doc is if she dies tonight. So let's look at it this way, she's a dead woman walking whether or not her claim is true.

Looking at both claims, it's quite obvious that scum can't kill two PR's in one night. So that leaves us at a bit of a dilemma. Should we take the chance on lynching a claimed PR? Or should we lynch someone else? Right now I'm taking both claims with a grain of salt. I don't believe MR at all period and if angel's scum then she has no choice but to claim doctor to save her sorry butt.

Here's what I think: even if MR is a cop, I doubt he will make the optimal play in his investigation choice. In fact, I doubt he'll investigate anyone at all if he's telling the truth. We all agree he's been acting scummy anyway, so believing he's fakeclaiming isn't too much of a stretch.

As for AM, this is rather simple. If she lives through the night, we lynch her tomorrow. There's no sense in lynching her today at all. Since both PR's have been claimed, and both claims are coming from suspected scum, then it's also not a stretch to believe that either one or both of them is lying.

My vote is MR. If he was the only PR claim, then I'd apply the test I wish to apply to angel to him. He is not, and since I don't believe him anymore than I believe angel, I also believe it might be worth the risk.

unvote, vote: MR

[The Tracker]

I am also not the doctor. And Jack, that thought hadn't crossed my mind.

[The Tracker]

Well, we got two guys with a free pass so far. I don't trust the claims as far as I can throw them, but I suppose Budja's right and let them be. Of course, why claim cop and then request replacement?

So what do we have as a viable target thus far? Just Cat. Unless someone wants to try a case on either me, Jack, Budja, or Emp, I'm fairly certain Cat or his replacement will be getting a new necktie.

[The Tracker]

Nothing for it, I guess all that we can do is go back and look over the thread again. But we have to do it quickly, the deadline is fast approaching.

[The Tracker]

Here's the thing: you know why me and Jack thought the claim was BS which you admitted it was. Yes, I was trying to push the lynch through of a claimed 'cop' but the way he was playing just reeked of a false claim. However, it's starting to unsettle me slightly that you readily admit it was a false claim. I'm fairly certain MR is scum, so maybe I'm a little biased since you got his role. Meh, as it is my vote stands unless I can find a more compelling case.

[The Tracker]

Or perhaps I'm a Townie that believes MR was full of shit and just trying to get rid of scum. In any case, I really hate to be pushing to take you out of the game so soon but since you admitted the claim was false and MR was scummy as all Hell I'm going to be leaving my vote on you. The expectation of being counter claimed looked like a fishing expedition to me.

[The Tracker]

I wasn't trying to lynch her, I just said I distrust her claim.

[The Tracker]

@evil: It seems to me like you're trying to backpedal and condemn the player to build yourself up as pro-Town. However, because of the backpedal you're looking scummier. Also, you have the same role PM as MR, so his role is your role. That also means evidence used against MR is going to be used against you in some way.

[The Tracker]

Tracker, what is up with you? It might be just me, but it seems to me like you're bouncing all over the place.

How so, good sir? I think I made my views on MR (or ES as of now) crystal clear. Or are you saying that temporarily discarding an angle that was refused and starting to look at a new one is suspect?

[The Tracker]

A Jack/Budja scumteam? Hmm...Honestly I don't find either of them scummy ATM, but that's probably because of all the scumminess surrounding other players by comparison. Why, you have an idea for a case, Emp?

[The Tracker]

Well, let's put it this way: Jackabomb bussing MR/ES is the best possible play he can make if he's scum. Let's say he suddenly unvotes when ES takes back the claim. He suddenly looks scummy, right? Then if one of the two get lynched, that confirms a scum pair. It's perfectly reasonable to assume MR/ES is scumbuddies with anyone that's going after him. In any case, I'm really convinced ES is scum and think he should be lynched.

[The Tracker]

Need more info, ness? Sounds good, let's get a lynch and see what happens with the flip. In the meantime, I have two questions for you, friendo. Are you the doctor? And what exactly do me and Jacky Boy have against us?

Emp, you make a good case. In fact, looking back I see exactly what you're saying about Budja, and he posted in a similar manner when he was scum in a game I played. Plus he's been rather steadfast in playing it safe. Hmm...I'm a fan of an ES and Budja pairing.

Budja, if evil was such a lovely lynch when he was Town, how does his Cop claim change much? His wishy-washy claiming is highly suspect.

[The Tracker]

Not at the moment. I'll have more info D2, but I can't make any definite hypotheses as of now until I can look at it in hindsight, if that makes any sense.

[The Tracker]

Come now, there's nothing wrong with asking if she's really the doctor. HH, do you know if the real doctor just hasn't claimed to avoid a NK. There's a possibility ness would try a takeback as well.

ness: I never claimed to know who everyone else is. You're replacing angelmouse. Angelmouse claimed Doctor. That's why I asked you if you were sticking with the claim. And we've been saying what we thought about everyone else all through the thread in perfectly clear terms. Why do we need to do it again?

[The Tracker]

In other words, you can't think for yourself, is that it? Hoo boy, this is going to be a long game...

Fine, why people are voting evil is mainly because of MR, his predecessor. MR was a useless Townie that basically posted nothing useful. Then he claimed cop and when he was starting to get grilled about it, he replaced. Evil comes in. He immediately unclaims and (from what Emptyger said) reclaimed in a way. That's the case against him.

[The Tracker]

Bold your vote, please. Otherwise it's not counted.

And no, if evil's not the cop then the only person that knows is the cop.

It's not the person that gives the most problems that we vote, it's the one who's psychologically acting like they have a hidden agenda.

[The Tracker]

HH, I don't understand how asking if ness was going to retract the claim that allows her to think we accept fake claiming. Seriously, I don't get your logic with how I voted ES because of the claiming thing and then asking ness if she was going to do the same thing says I support such crap happening.

[The Tracker]

@Emp: Ness said she had stuff against me and Jackabomb, so I asked her for her case. Then she said she didn't have one and was 'just saying.'

[The Tracker]

Huck, you aren't making a lick of sense. If I was trying to help him, why am I voting him? Why did I push so hard for his lynch? My recent posts have nothing to do with ES. It's all on nessie. I was merely asking a new player some questions.

[The Tracker]

That's all claims, really. I don't trust any of them but I'm perfectly willing to give her the BoD for now. I was jumping on MR/ES so hard about it because of the ridiculousness of MR's play. If ES had been playing the whole time, I doubt I'd be after him so much.

[The Tracker]

Ness, why did you just unvote?

[The Tracker]

Ha...good game, Town. Yeah, I realized I was dropping massive cop vibes but I figured if we could get one scum lynched I did my job. That's why I pushed so hard for MR's lynch earlier on. Hm...in hindsight I would have been more useful had I been less vocal probably, but you know...

[The Tracker]

Its still ethically a bit dodgy. Best to play your own game.

[The Tracker]

I was kind of thinking of that, but basically I was thinking along the lines of I was still using my role to hit scum and I believed the players could function reasonably well without me.