Open 194- Vengeful Reasons- GAME OVER!

[The Tracker]

Need more info, ness? Sounds good, let's get a lynch and see what happens with the flip. In the meantime, I have two questions for you, friendo. Are you the doctor? And what exactly do me and Jacky Boy have against us?

Emp, you make a good case. In fact, looking back I see exactly what you're saying about Budja, and he posted in a similar manner when he was scum in a game I played. Plus he's been rather steadfast in playing it safe. Hmm...I'm a fan of an ES and Budja pairing.

Budja, if evil was such a lovely lynch when he was Town, how does his Cop claim change much? His wishy-washy claiming is highly suspect.

[EmpTyger]

Apparently according to the firstpost the deadline is now Friday, so we have slightly more time. But that’s still close.

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Budja:
You don't think evilsnail’s the right lynch...
…but you're not helping to defend him. You say as little as possible, as vaguely as possible. You’re content to let evilsnail defend himself (obviously ineffectively, given that he’s at lynch-1 and you are the only one even close to agreeing with him). Even if you think 1 of my points is wrong, you don’t say anything about the other 2. Even if you’re not sure about evilsnail, you’re not doing anything to find out further about him. If someone was at lynch-1, and weren’t sure about them or genuinely didn’t want him lynched- you would be doing something about. Not being as vague as you can.

You think someone else should be lynched today…
…but you're not trying to get an alternate target lynched. You're not even trying to find an alternate target! And this is the biggest problem. Because no townsperson who truly didn't want an evilsnail lynch would be sitting back as passively as you were and still are this close to deadline.

Do you have any explanation for this besides mafia trying not to stick out their neck?

(And as for my point 1:
There's only 1 way for evilsnail (or you) to know for certain what the mafia would do. Whether the mafia will kill a confirmed innocent doctor, or instead kill a claimed cop they might very well be able to mislynch D2 (for a win, after a mislynch D1- which evilsnail also conveniently assumes is definitely going to happen, without basis). And that's if he (or you) is mafia.)

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Tracker:

<snip>
And what exactly do me and Jacky Boy have against us?
<snip>

What are you asking here?

Is there anyone other than Budja who you think is evilsnail’s partner? Who and why?

[The Tracker]

Not at the moment. I'll have more info D2, but I can't make any definite hypotheses as of now until I can look at it in hindsight, if that makes any sense.

[evilsnail]

evilsnail:
Who do you think my partner is?

And despite the above, you’re not off the hook. Not when you are simultaneously arguing that your plan was “ill-conceived” and “an obvious protown move”.

My best bet at the moment is a The Tracker-EmpTyger scum pair, because you are the players who I am most suspicious of. On the other hand, I'm not sure if scum would push for a cop-lynch together, so I could also see a budja/HackerHuck-EmpTyger pair.

My plan was "ill-conceived" only because no one believed me and maybe I should have anticipated that in retrospect. I stand by the conclusion that it was a pro-town strategy, simply because it is optimal play in my situation.

I also don't see how you can try to make something out of the fact that I assumed scum would kill the claimed cop over the doctor. This is also just optimal play for scum. There's nothing more to it than that. I concede that there's a chance scum could try to ride it for a competing cop claim, but I only really realised that tomorrow could be LyLo after I did the takeback (wasn't really thinking the it being a seven-player game thing through). So that possibility didn't really factor into my decision-making. I would have made the same decision, though.

@The Tracker & Jackabomb: If you are going to simply follow EmpTyger, you should at least address some of the points of contention in our discussion. I don't see how you can behave as if it is an ironclad case or something.

[nessarae56]

Need more info, ness? Sounds good, let's get a lynch and see what happens with the flip. In the meantime, I have two questions for you, friendo. Are you the doctor? And what exactly do me and Jacky Boy have against us?

Well tacker to answer your frist question what do u think i am???? If u know or if u think u know who everyone else i then u must know who i am. Well i really have nothing against u and Jack. I was just reading what has been post and i was read after i post last night and u might not even be on my list as of now. i Really need everyone to tell me what they think and why they think. I take it i am kind of the deciding vote here. Everyone want me to go there way. Hmmmmm but i still have a few days.

[HackerHuck]

I don't like Tracker's line of questioning here. We've been discussing how off evil's claim recission and reclaiming is and now he's asking nessarae whether she's really the doc. We didn't get a counter from anyone after all of the requests for such, so I don't see why you would have any doubt. This seems more like an attempt to support evil's actions, which strikes me as very suspicious.

Vote: Tracker

evil- what makes you think that emptyger and I could be a scumpair? That makes no sense to me.

[The Tracker]

Come now, there's nothing wrong with asking if she's really the doctor. HH, do you know if the real doctor just hasn't claimed to avoid a NK. There's a possibility ness would try a takeback as well.

ness: I never claimed to know who everyone else is. You're replacing angelmouse. Angelmouse claimed Doctor. That's why I asked you if you were sticking with the claim. And we've been saying what we thought about everyone else all through the thread in perfectly clear terms. Why do we need to do it again?

[evilsnail]

I don't have a strong read on you and there's nothing in the interaction between you and EmpTyger that suggests this is not possible.

[nessarae56]

Hmmm well then i take it u have your answer then so we can move on from that now still trying to put the pic together we will see how i vote hmmm i want to know why you think it is evil or tracker please tell me the reasons

[Budja]

@Tracker, I wasn't crash hot on MR either yet I wanted him to live. Same reason. I don't think evil is scummy enough to outweigh the benefits of letting him live a night.

@Emp, I am sticking out my neck by going against the flow.
--
I disagree over the doc thing. Getting results is too risky for mafia to let the cop live.
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@Huck,

We've been discussing how off evil's claim recission and reclaiming is and now he's asking nessarae whether she's really the doc. We didn't get a counter from anyone after all of the requests for such, so I don't see why you would have any doubt. This seems more like an attempt to support evil's actions, which strikes me as very suspicious.

I don't understand this.

How

does it support evil's actions.

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[The Tracker]

In other words, you can't think for yourself, is that it? Hoo boy, this is going to be a long game...

Fine, why people are voting evil is mainly because of MR, his predecessor. MR was a useless Townie that basically posted nothing useful. Then he claimed cop and when he was starting to get grilled about it, he replaced. Evil comes in. He immediately unclaims and (from what Emptyger said) reclaimed in a way. That's the case against him.

[nessarae56]

No i can think for myself i just want to get a grip on what is going on and thank u for tell me about evil and stuff i agree on MR i also think if u know who the cop is kill them no one likes cops and do we know who the cop it at all also who is the man here that has given the most problems out of everyone and that will be the one we kill its not hard people all we have to do i think on who is being the most u can say open about things do tell me if u think i am wrong

[Budja]

Please use some punctuation. I have great trouble understanding you.

[nessarae56]

sorry i'm tend to type like i would for texting. I will if u want me too.

[nessarae56]

VOTE: EVILSNAIL

[The Tracker]

Bold your vote, please. Otherwise it's not counted.

And no, if evil's not the cop then the only person that knows is the cop.

It's not the person that gives the most problems that we vote, it's the one who's psychologically acting like they have a hidden agenda.

[HackerHuck]

@Huck,

We've been discussing how off evil's claim recission and reclaiming is and now he's asking nessarae whether she's really the doc. We didn't get a counter from anyone after all of the requests for such, so I don't see why you would have any doubt. This seems more like an attempt to support evil's actions, which strikes me as very suspicious.

I don't understand this.

How

does it support evil's actions.

---

Evil retracted his claim, which was pretty scummy. By asking nessarae whether her claim is correct, he's lending credence to a fake claim as being acceptable for town. As has been said times over, there's no reason for the real doc not to counter if angelmouse was scum.


nessarae - I'm having a really hard time understanding you. In 261, it sounded like you were saying that we should lynch the cop because no one likes cops.

[The Tracker]

HH, I don't understand how asking if ness was going to retract the claim that allows her to think we accept fake claiming. Seriously, I don't get your logic with how I voted ES because of the claiming thing and then asking ness if she was going to do the same thing says I support such crap happening.

[evilsnail]

No i can think for myself i just want to get a grip on what is going on and thank u for tell me about evil and stuff i agree on MR i also think if u know who the cop is kill them no one likes cops and do we know who the cop it at all also who is the man here that has given the most problems out of everyone and that will be the one we kill its not hard people all we have to do i think on who is being the most u can say open about things do tell me if u think i am wrong

Nessarae, the cop is a pro-town role. If you vote for me, you lynch the only role that can find out who is mafia. Only vote me if you think I'm actually lying about being the cop (which I'm not).

Otherwise, vote for you think is behaving the most like they want everyone else dead. Good candidates (I think) are EmpTyger and The Tracker. EmpTyger is trying to get a cop lynched on weak evidence. The Tracker has been going after easy targets all game (lurkers and now me). Both of these things can be strong signs that a player is a member of the mafia.

[EmpTyger]

I’m having some technical difficulties from my home computer, and it’s not going to get fixed until the weekend at the earliest. I can use another computer at the meantime today and tonight, but probably not

tomorrow, when we have a deadline.

More attention to Budja. I want everyone to take a look and get on record regarding him.

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nessarae:
Half of the game is trying to persuade others. If you make it hard for people to understand you, you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

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Budja:
Where did you “stuck your neck out by going against the flow”?

With everyone besides evilsnail- you haven’t stuck your neck out. You’ve done so much *nothing* that half the players in the game have accused you of active lurking!
With evilsnail, you went *with* the flow. You yourself said you were being wishy-washy. You didn’t try to stop his lynch. You didn’t try to find an alternative lynch. I’ve already explained all this in my last post.

I presume you figure your best chance is to ignore my accusation and try not to call further attention and hope no one listens to me between now and deadline? Since you can’t actually rebut my accusation?

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evilsnail:
Is the only thing you have against me that I don’t believe you? That I’m trying to get you lynched? Because:

Yeah, I don’t believe you.
Neither does Tracker. He’s voting you.
Neither does Jack. He’s voting you.
Neither does nessarae. She’s [trying to] vote you.
Neither does HH. He’d “be pretty happy with a lynch on evilsnail,” put you in his top 2 suspects, is voting Tracker solely for allegedly supporting you, and most recently, “Evil retracted his claim, which was pretty scummy.”

So that’s 5 players who don’t believe you.

That’s at least 3 townspeople who don’t believe you.

In fact, it seems like not believing you is a pretty *protown* thing, actually. (In fact, the only one who doesn’t think you are lying is you and Budja, and even then Budja isn't completely believing you, because he himself admitted that he was being wishy-washy on you. And I’ve explained how Budja wasn’t reacting to your lynch as if he didn’t want it.)

So, anything else? (Besides the circular “My best bet at the moment is a The Tracker-EmpTyger scum pair, because you are the players who I am most suspicious of.”)

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HH:
So does you think evilsnail is lying and that it’s Tracker/evilsnail? Do you have any argument against Tracker besides “he’s evilsnail’s partner”? Because if the only thing suspicious that Tracker’s done is “be evilsnail’s partner”, then why not lynch evilsnail first?

And, I don’t see Tracker as evilsnail’s partner. When Budja and I made it clear that MR wasn’t the lynch today, Tracker continued to push for a MR lynch.

---

Tracker:
Again, I can’t tell what you’re asking here. What did you mean by this:

<snip>
And what exactly do me and Jacky Boy have against us?
<snip>

[evilsnail]

Is the only thing you have against me that I don’t believe you? That I’m trying to get you lynched?

No... I said that you're trying to get me lynched on bad evidence. You claim to have had a turnaround in terms of whether you really believe me (you went from being relatively uncertain to apparent certainty) on the basis of shoddy evidence. I just don't believe the change of heart. What other players believe has no bearing on this.

[The Tracker]

@Emp: Ness said she had stuff against me and Jackabomb, so I asked her for her case. Then she said she didn't have one and was 'just saying.'

[DeathNote]

Vote Count:

Budja

- EmpTyger (L-3)

EmpTyger

- evilsnail (L-3)

evilsnail

- The Tracker, Jackabomb (L-2)

The Tracker

- HackerHuck (L-3)

Not Voting:

nessarae56, Budja

With 7 alive, its 4 to lynch

Nessarae's vote did not count, as it was not bolded. The deadline is tomorrow so I suggest you hurry.

[HackerHuck]

HH:
So does you think evilsnail is lying and that it’s Tracker/evilsnail? Do you have any argument against Tracker besides “he’s evilsnail’s partner”? Because if the only thing suspicious that Tracker’s done is “be evilsnail’s partner”, then why not lynch evilsnail first?

And, I don’t see Tracker as evilsnail’s partner. When Budja and I made it clear that MR wasn’t the lynch today, Tracker continued to push for a MR lynch.

When I first read through, I found both evilsnail and Tracker to be the scummiest, although evilsnail's scumminess was heavily weighted by his claim retraction. The way I see Tracker's recent posts, could be indicative of scum (Tracker) trying to help his scum buddy (evilsnail) by making evil's initial claim retraction more palatable, or by scum (Tracker) buddying up to the real cop (evilsnail) for the same reason.

I'm not sold on evilsnail being our cop, but I'm not too worried whether he's the lynch today or not. He will be dead either today or tomorrow and we won't get an investigation result from him. I see going after Tracker as being much more useful to the town right now.

[nessarae56]

Vote: EvilSnail