Mini 889 - Shopping Frenzy (Over)

[Adel]

Unvote

Moronic macho doc is moronic.

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

because he's not a follower and him pretending to be one is nonsense.

This post is definitely not nonsense.

[Adel]

vote:Albert B. Rampage

[Adel]

i have been thinking this one over quite a bit, but i think it is best to claim my role right off the bat for a number of reasons. i realize there is detriment to it as well, but the idea of having a confirmed townie in lylo is something we should plan for. i know this throws a wrench in the works, but i have never had this role before, nor played with it in a game, and after thinking it through and weighing the pros and cons i have decided to just claim.

bulletproof townie.

discuss.

best godfather fakeclaim, ever. We better have a vig to test his claim.

[Adel]

unvote,

did you guys actually buy this?

Oh sorry I didnt notice this game *starts watching this topic* there. now im going to read.

I had problems with my firefox and had to download it over again. So then I lost this out of my bookmarks. Now that its on my watched list along with my other games ill be more active.

not bloody likely

Im just going to join the wagon because of the deadline. it seemed to pass by so fast. So we should probably just get on a good wagon for now.

Vote Josh Lyman

Your reluctance to wagon is noted.

one of the two are scum, either slow-muh or sneaky-julien.

I also think a scott lynch would be better because he almost cost us a no lynch. And I think he might be activley lurking to find a way out of this slip. So that people forget about him.

Scott hasn't posted on this site in nine days and it appears he's flaked from two or three other games as well that he was in, that's some real hardcore "active lurking".

Unvote; Vote: muh316

I just skimmed scot's posts in iso. What was his slip supposed to be? I didn't see it.

I think the muh may be one of those people that accuses other people of what he happens to know that he is guilty of: specifically active lurking.

Regarding muh: I just think that the way he phrased it sounded like he was trying to appear innocent, as though he actually hadn't realized the game had started. That is honestly how I parsed his post 188, so I checked his posts; when I found TWENTY of them, I basically lost it. Yes, I have a life, but I do know which games I'm in, whether or not my browser crashed or whatever. I still think his attitude is very anti-town, especially since he promised to be more active; he had two posts within 30 minutes, and now nothing. Can we say "active lurking?" IMO, muh should rectify this. Soon.

unvote
FoS: muh

If you're so sure about your vote on muh, why the unvote?

my guess is that it was because muh and Josh were scumbuddies, and while Josh was pissed at muh for being the weakest link, he didn't really want to lynch him.

vote:muh316

for being a lazy scum player who pissed of his scum-mate Josh, accused Scott of what muh himself was guilty of, for trying to convince the town that his absence was due to bookmarking every game until he was forced to reinstall his browser

then

he magically discovered the "watched topics" function on this forum. Oh, and that weak claim. As a mod I've put in double roles before. The odds of the being two of the same roll in this game are slim, and the odds of the NK victim having the same unusual role as the first person to claim on day 2... incredibly slim. I estimate the odds of muh simply being ballsy enough (his first huge lie seemed to work after all!) to copy that role for his claim when he was forced to claim are much greater.

[Adel]

^^I like this post

Adel: One thing I think you are missing is that Muh wasn't actually FORCED to claim. In fact, once I started posting, his

wagon lost steam quite rapidly

before he claimed. Then he went and claimed anyway. Other than that, I'm on the same thought process with him and JL.

Thanks for helping me catch up!
Over which interval of posts did his wagon lose steam over?
Over that period of time, he went from how many votes to how many?

Adel, since you briefly voted ABR, can you expand on your thoughts about him? Did you simply agree with DDD?

3D's post corresponded very closely with the stereotype I have of ARB from over a year ago, when we last played in a game together. Now that I've had a chance to think about it, it isn't realistic for me to expect him to play the way that he played over a year ago. As town in this particular game, if he stuck with the aggressive and domineering play-style I remember him for, I don't think that he would have much luck identifying scum in this town. Only if he is scum with Mur (which I have no real reason to suspect at this point) does his play make perfect sense to me, but since that is conditional upon Mur being scum, Mur obviously hangs first.
It is entirely possible that he has grown or otherwise changed so much in the last year that I simply don't know what I'm talking about vis-à-vis ABR's play-style.

[Adel]

you mean this:

Ok, D1 ended with a scum lynch, good. This game has officially peeked my interest.

So you weren't interested before? The D1 'slip' wasn't great, but this seems way less than pro-town.

Still

really

looking forward to that Brosius post.

absurd.

I hadn't you fingered as muh's buddy until just now though. Thanks for the tip!

[Adel]

Adel: The fact that Chinaman is on a wagon he believes to be a mislynch doesn't seem scummy to you at all? OK

wait, where did he say that he believes that wagon will be a mislynch?

[Adel]

.
adel: Post 321 is where he said it

funny, 322 makes you a lot more scummy to me than 321 makes Chinaman look scummy

[Adel]

unvote

Albert B. Rampage (1): Debonair Danny DiPietro
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1): Albert B. Rampage

this is setting off all kinds of soft bus alarms for me.

those two players voting for each other, and hardly otherwise posting, totally doesn't make sense to me.

as town, if they honestly that the other one was scum then sparks would be flying.


is there any reason these players can't be scum together?

[Adel]

is there any reason these players can't be scum together?

Other than the fact that soft bussing after a correct day one lynch seems like the opposite of good strategy? And other than the fact that we can't be scum together because I'm town?

At least you two aren't voting for muh anymore.

neither of you are going to get lynched when there are competing busses on potential VIs. In a debate death match either of you would mop the floor with either of them.

This way you get to be on the record as voting for each other, and not on the record as voting for someone who is proven by a lynch to be town.

[Adel]

Soft

bus? I want him lynched.

you aren't acting like it:

I will have a lot more to say after the lynch and NK.

I will have a lot more to say after the lynch and NK.

We've already had one of each of those and we're getting nothing from you so it's basically impossible to believe you.

Yes, and look how well that went. No sarcasm.

Unvote, vote DDD

GLOBAL WARMING!? Oh, you mean general warning.

[Adel]

.
adel: Post 321 is where he said it

funny, 322 makes you a lot more scummy to me than 321 makes Chinaman look scummy

Funny, post 322 isn't mine. You also ignored Paltry's question in post 369. Why don't you want to say anything at all about Chinaman Adel?

Chinaman: If you self-vote then I fully expect we'd have at least one scum on the wagon: you. So feel free.

322 isn't your post, but you are the subject of that post.

Muh, claim?

Unless you're threatening to hammer, you do not ask for a claim.

I don't have an opinion on Chinaman yet.

[Adel]

jesus christ, I just realized how many macho docs might be in this game.

vote:Chinaman

for not being a macho doc.

[Adel]

that post accidentally reads like I am soft-claiming "macho doc". To prevent future confusion, I'll go ahead and do a partial claim: I am

not

macho, nor am I a doc.

[Adel]

julienvonwolfe, if you honestly want muh lynched instead of chinaman this is when you present your case.

if you are just coasting on the muh wagon so that you aren't connected to a chinaman mislynch, then do not present a case on muh.


you last real opinion on muh was

(I'm thinking he's scummy, but I'm not that sure of his alignment. I think the tells I collected are weak, and that there's not a lot he could do to refute them. It's players like these that I find provide interesting data - not from them alone, but from the way others interact with them. Perhaps it won't be useful straight away, but it will probably be useful in some way later in the game.)

and

Muh's giving me huge scum vibes.

which isn't a lot.

[Adel]

unvote

to prevent a premature Chinaman hammer

~~~

julienvonwolf, you stated that Muh was giving you "huge scum vibes".

Which words of his served as the basis for those vibes? How did you arrive at the conclusion that those words reflected a scum alignment?

[Adel]

claim now chinaman, or die early tomorrow.

[Adel]

Adel, I didn't like 302 and 303. 302 seems unnecessarily defensive. Its followup, 303, seems like an attempt to patch the damage. More a gut thing than anything. I also agree with DDD's 300. This in combination with my earlier questioning of him led to the 'huge scum vibes'.

huh

I also think a scott lynch would be better because he almost cost us a no lynch. And I think he might be activley lurking to find a way out of this slip. So that people forget about him.

Scott hasn't posted on this site in nine days and it appears he's flaked from two or three other games as well that he was in, that's some real hardcore "active lurking".

Unvote; Vote: muh316

Sorry i didnt do my research on him before saying that. I should be more careful.

And what makes that a good reason for voting me

looking back at it, I think that 303 was a good question.

And what makes that a good reason for voting me

You're not paying attention and you have no interest in actually scumhunting. Town would be paying attention and has a huge interest in scumhunting.

which doesn't quite answer the question. Why would muh voting for scott be a scumtell for muh? DDD has demonstrated that he knows how to do an activity check, but has muh? At the time DDD made his vote on muh did DDD have sufficient evidence to conclude that a town-muh would be paying more attention to this inactive game than a scum-muh would be?

And what makes that a good reason for voting me

You're not paying attention and you have no interest in actually scumhunting. Town would be paying attention and has a huge interest in scumhunting.

I also believe your not of any use to us either so is ABR and so is Chinaman. Why not vote all of them. Why not lynch them? If it was that simple nobody would ever sign up. There is no slips I've yet seen except for chinamans

Muh points out to DDD that DDD and ABR are also useless so far in the game. Note that DDD then votes for ABR in a later post, right after Muh claims. Did DDD just do that to suck up to muh? Is sucking up, as opposed to skepticism, to someone immediately following their dodgy claim a town tell or a scumtell for DDD?

And what makes that a good reason for voting me

You're not paying attention and you have no interest in actually scumhunting. Town would be paying attention and has a huge interest in scumhunting.

I also believe your not of any use to us either so is ABR and so is Chinaman. Why not vote all of them. Why not lynch them? If it was that simple nobody would ever sign up. There is no slips I've yet seen except for chinamans

Vote: Muh

because of this post. It's crap.

First of all, there have been plenty of scummy things that have happened thus far.

Secondly, I had thought it was pretty obvious that what was earlier thought of as a possible scum-slip from me was clarified thus bringing it up again to try and put doubt in about it again is scummy.

I would say that DJ is scummy as well even with the gift wrap of JL. Could be that he being JL's scum buddy decided to bus right off the bat. If muh flips scum, then I would say DJ is for sure town, but if muh flips town, I say DJ is scum due to me and muh (remember only if a town flip for muh) being on his list. I know I'm town and we will soon see a flip from muh, so if he flips town, that's 2 of the 3 players on his list that are town.

Anyway, L-1 for Muh now.

Chinaman, please list all of the scummy things that have happened in this game thus far.

[Adel]

This in combination with my earlier questioning of him led to the 'huge scum vibes'.

which earlier questioning?

What about his answers made you think that he was scum?

[Adel]

btw, despite the scum lynch on day 1, the town in this game is sucking. More information needs to be generated, more typing needs to occur, more activity is desperately needed.

[Adel]

ABR, on a scale from 1 (low) to 10 (high) what are your estimated INT, INV and ACT values for Muh, Chinaman, DDD, and julienvonwolfe?

[Adel]

Wait, no. Can we lynch muh instead?

Unvote, vote muh

why don't you believe his claim?

[Adel]

Oh come on, I don't believe that shit.

why not?

[Adel]

Soft

bus? I want him lynched.

funny how you unvoted DDD, who you claimed was not a soft bus target, to vote Chinaman citing your desire to get any lynch, only to unvote him and try to lynch Muh instead.

the moment before you voted for Muh, DDD and muh had the same number of votes.

[Adel]

vote:chinaman

I hope that I get NKd so that I don;t have to deal with this apathetic town.

[Adel]

If nobody wants to play, why don't we just abandon the game?

[Adel]

I hope one of me, muh or Adel get NK'd. Too lazy to deal with the two of them at the same time.

why would you have to "deal with" me?

[Adel]

wait, is it bad to post in twilight if I have been lynched?

nope, not bad, we are dragging you to the noose but you are still alive and able to speak. Look at the rule set. I have seen a couple of mods who wouldn't allow it, but nhammen is not one of them.

[Adel]

I am now certain that ABR is scum in this game. He should be an auto lynch tomorrow.

[Adel]

I'm a macho cop.

let me guess, you don't have an investigation result from N1?

[Adel]

vote: DO NOT abandon

[Adel]

I hope that the two scum groups both realize that there are two scum groups and focus on crosskills.

[Adel]

vote:ABR

[Adel]

not until some other people, especially ABR, put some effort into this game.

[Adel]

Adel, care to fill us all in on what INT INV and ACT mean?

If you can't figure out what INT and ACT mean then your (generic) INT score drops at least two points from where it was originally slotted.

I can live with that. Also now I'd not only like their meaning spelt out but how you think coded conversation is helpful to the town at this point in the game.

link to MD post that includes ABR's definitions for INT, INV, and ACT:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12959

[Adel]

Who did muh protect?

i think the real question is: why is muh alive?

I'd like an explanation from Adel too.

1. he is scum
2. he isn't scum but is mislynch bait.

[Adel]

ABR, on a scale from 1 (low) to 10 (high) what are your estimated INT, INV and ACT values for Muh, Chinaman, DDD, and julienvonwolfe?

please answer this now ABR

[Adel]

I'm not going to answer that question because I think that scum players want my opinion on muh to be openly stated in the game before they take a position on him.

if you read my town games you will see that i am almost always lynched. in this game, that could be disastrous.

please link me to some of those town games? I want to take a look at them.

I have to say, after looking at you posts in Mini 701 I see that you like to lurk as a godfather, and try to draw a cop investigation as godfather, which makes me really distrust your claim in this game.

Vetren players, like don_johnson who has 2500 gameposts on this site, have to take responsibility for information generation and the overall activity level in the game.

You've been lurking.

[Adel]

I will have a lot more to say after the lynch and NK.

still waiting.

[Adel]

i haven't been lurking. i am actually posting quite frequently.

i also generated the bulk of the case on JoshLyman. mini 701 was actually my first game on site. i didn't lurk at all until the last couple days. in fact, i was quite active the first day i replaced in. also, not sure where you think i was "trying" to draw an investigation in that game.

Spyrex called me out as scum rather quickly. the only reason i won is because my scum partner sac'd himself for the doc day one, masons claimed, and there was another scum team who did the rest of the work for me. i endgamed because the remaining member of the other scum team pulled a terrible fakeclaim out of her ass in lylo.

even still, one game does not a meta make.

if you don't want to voice your opinion that's fine, but don't go around demanding answers from other players(ABR) when you refuse to answer questions yourself.

i am actually in the process of rereading this game to get a better perspective. i was pretty confident in the china lynch, but its time to reevaluate.

OMFG, this stuff in bold is so scummy it hurts. Where are those links to the games as town you mentioned? Oh, you were too caught up in

unvote, vote:don_johnson

I was trying to figure out how Josh got lynched by an end of day 1 bandwagon. A last minute day 1 wagon is such a super rare occurrence that I figure a strong bus must've been the cause.

[Adel]

i haven't been lurking. i am actually posting quite frequently.

i also generated the bulk of the case on JoshLyman. mini 701 was actually my first game on site. i didn't lurk at all until the last couple days. in fact, i was quite active the first day i replaced in. also, not sure where you think i was "trying" to draw an investigation in that game.

Spyrex called me out as scum rather quickly. the only reason i won is because my scum partner sac'd himself for the doc day one, masons claimed, and there was another scum team who did the rest of the work for me. i endgamed because the remaining member of the other scum team pulled a terrible fakeclaim out of her ass in lylo.

even still, one game does not a meta make.

if you don't want to voice your opinion that's fine, but don't go around demanding answers from other players(ABR) when you refuse to answer questions yourself.

i am actually in the process of rereading this game to get a better perspective. i was pretty confident in the china lynch, but its time to reevaluate.

OMFG, this stuff in bold is so scummy it hurts. Where are those links to the games as town you mentioned? Oh, you were too caught up in

unvote, vote:don_johnson

I was trying to figure out how Josh got lynched by an end of day 1 bandwagon. A last minute day 1 wagon is such a super rare occurrence that I figure a strong bus must've been the cause.

Clever gambit, claiming bulletproof, and then bussing your partner.

[Adel]

even still, one game does not a meta make.

i am not linking you to town games. if you want to build a case on me then go ahead and do it.

if you don't want to voice your opinion that's fine, but don't go around demanding answers from other players(ABR) when you refuse to answer questions yourself.

WTF?

[Adel]

Because I wanted to flush another cop or at least some other cluses that would assist my scumteam in a massclaim.

fixed.

[Adel]

But I think the its #1 because he could have easily replaced out.

this.

I won't be shocked if he replaces out now though.

[Adel]

vote:ABR

[Adel]

come on ABR, why don't you want to play with me? You used to be so eager to replace into games I was in, and were always so quick to conclude that I was scum in those games, and in those games you worked so hard to get me lynched.

In this game you apparently just want to get out.

Have we ever played together when you were scum?

[Adel]

this is interesting

And I guess I'll be searching for a replacement for Albert B. Rampage

vote:ABR

lynch-1

[Adel]

the logic is terrible. using a mod post to determine your vote is heinous.

Play To Win.

I'm confident that ABR was being a PITA and the mod disapproves, and ABR is being tactical about his use of a threat of replacement as well as his decision to replace out.
I play "out guess the mod" to get insight into setups, and win games. My best guess on the setup is two similar theories:
1- ABR is scum on a team with an investigative ability (role cop or gunsmith) but no ability to kill. ABR hates duel-scum games, and he is convinced that the nk proves that there is a second scum team in the game.
2- ABR is on a scum team that is not {Mafia} like Josh was revealed to be. He hates duel scum games, and is replacing out.

Anyhow, ABR is scum. Hammer please.

[Adel]

hmmm. good deal.

mass claim or no lynch?

in your opinion what are the advantages of "no lynch"?

[Adel]

hey muh, who did you protect n1?

[Adel]

we have five. two scum dead. assuming three that leaves

4 town
1 scum

no lynch lets scum take someone out.

3 town
1 scum

+ night action results. makes for better odds. i think its pretty standard mafia theory.

why do you think that it is standard mafia theory?

[Adel]

Why did you protect DJ?

[Adel]

also DJ = don_johnson?

[Adel]

He seemed the least scummiest at that time during day 1 to me.

/
why was he the "least scummiest"?

[Adel]

this is amusing. i think it should be pretty obvious why i was the least scummiest. as far as i'm concerned jvw and myself are obvtown.

ddd: if we're not no lynching, then what are we doing?

ok, here is the problem I have: if he thought that you weren't scummy then he believed your bulletproof claim, so why would he protect you?

[Adel]

i agree. which is exactly why this is amusing to me.

k.

/in to massclaim. popcorn, starting when 3 people agree to massclaim. muh has full claimed, so once three have agreed I want him fullclaim using the form and also pick who does a fullclaim second. That person will full-claim in a single post, which shall include the following information:

1. Active Abilities
2. Passive Abilities
3. Groups (will passive abilities and active abilities)
4. Faction
5. Targets, Actions and/or Results if your role has them
6. Reasons for your targets
7. name of the next person who will claim

keep in mind the rule

You may never quote anything you received as PM from me. You also may never quote anything from a quicktopic. This does not apply once the game ends.

so paraphrase, but do not quote.

[Adel]

we have five. two scum dead. assuming three that leaves

4 town
1 scum

no lynch lets scum take someone out.

3 town
1 scum

+ night action results. makes for better odds. i think its pretty standard mafia theory.

why do you think that it is standard mafia theory?

wait, why do you think that this is standard mafia theory?

[Adel]

that's how it has been explained to me.

links, or it didn't happen.

[Adel]

wiki it. its "standardness" is debatable.

no. link us to where it "was explained" to you. The specific syntax of "that's how it has been explained to me" infers the existence of a conversation where someone explained the tactic of NL with 5 alive in a 12 player 3 scum on one faction game to you in a convincing way, and that you remember that conversation.

I want proof that that conversation exists.

[Adel]

DJ an i are /in for a massclaim. Is anyone else?

[Adel]

if i am mistaken and you think it is a bad idea you could just explain why.

with 1 mafia member and 1 sk alive + 3 townies
five alive + NL - 2NKs = 3 alive tomorrow

If you are a bulletproof SK than NL today is your best shot of winning.


I think you lied about there being a conversation where someone explained how NL with 5 alive is optimal.

[Adel]

Three of us support massclaim: me, DJ, jvw

muh please fill out the following:

1. Active Abilities
2. Passive Abilities
3. Groups (will passive abilities and active abilities)
4. Faction
5. Targets, Actions and/or Results if your role has them
6. Reasons for your targets
7. name of the next person who will claim

the faster we do this the better

[Adel]

k

1. Active Abilities: don't have any
2. Passive Abilities: don't have any
3. Groups (will passive abilities and active abilities) : don't have any
4. Faction: the town
5. Targets, Actions and/or Results if your role has them: n/a
6. Reasons for your targets: n/a
7. name of the next person who will claim: don_johnson

go don_johnson, go!

[Adel]

nice shot! This is the first time in a while I've seen a 1-shot vig wait to use it on scum, instead of blowing a 1-shot kill on a hunch N1.

[Adel]

i don't keep a running catalogue of my games. couldn't honestly tell ya which game it was, but the first time the scenario came up in a game was when it was explained to me. i think it may have been ectomancer who laid it out for me in those terms. if i am mistaken and you think it is a bad idea you could just explain why. not sure why your panties are in a bunch. five alive, two scum dead, mass claim and no lynch are both viable and accepted strategies according to my MS experience(the wiki notwithstanding).

if you would like to believe that it never happened that's fine. if you have a point to make regarding that belief, then make it.

if i am mistaken and you think it is a bad idea you could just explain why.

with 1 mafia member and 1 sk alive + 3 townies
five alive + NL - 2NKs = 3 alive tomorrow

If you are a bulletproof SK than NL today is your best shot of winning.


I think you lied about there being a conversation where someone explained how NL with 5 alive is optimal.

any response to this d_j?

[Adel]

5. call me liam for vig kill

why liam over muh?

[Adel]

hey muh, who did you protect n1?

I protected DJ
Night 2 Was Adel
Night 3 was Liam(who roleblocked me, no wonder I was NK'ed)

I support it to
So
and ive already claimed so adel u should go

you forgot to tall us why you targeted laim for protection.

Why did you?

[Adel]

and you also didn't explain why you protected me. please tell us why you targeted me and liam.

[Adel]

bulletproof vigilante

1. kill (1-shot)
2. bullet proof vest, bullet proof vest
3. none
4. town
5. call me liam for vig kill
6. same reason as suspicion of josh. fear of nk immune player. only scum fear 'em.
7. ddd

quickly, before jvw claims, are you sure that you don't have any other passive abilities?


~~~

something I've been working on:

[Adel]

adel: i already went.

you do not have

any

other passive abilities?

[Adel]

thoughts?

I didn't move last night. There were two night kills last night.

On n2, the night DJ had no motion, there was only one kill: the mafia's.

Our SK decided not to kill so that we would be less lieky to question his fakeclaim.

You are a

Mafia Goon

. The game thread is located here. Confirm by PM.

Active Abilities

• None

Passive Abilities

• None

Groups

Mafia

Members

• Member 1
  
• Member 2

Active Abilities

• Kill

Passive Abilities

• {Cop} Investigation Modifier {Guilty}
  
• {Gunsmith} Investigation Modifier {Has A Gun}
  
• Confirm {$Group}
  
• Night Talk
  • Night 0
    
  • quicktopic

Faction

• Mafia

You win when all players remaining are members of your faction, or nothing can prevent the same.

note the passive ability of a Gunsmith investigation modifier.

D_J forgot to fakeclaim that part.

[Adel]

Im sorry guys i wont be posting much because i broke my right arm and i have cast and a sling on so i cant type allot. if u want me replaced u could but if u dont mimd ill be a little less active.

I don't have a problem with you being inactive so long as you do one thing for us. Please have someone write "muh316" on your cast, take a picture of it, and post that picture in this thread. That way we will know that you aren't lying.

Thanks!

[Adel]

then we should also note the existence of a 3 player mafia team, which makes a serial killer less likely.

Once again I throw my BS flag for one of your posts.

Why do you think that a 3 man scum group in a 12 player game makes a sk less likely?

3 (mafia) vs 1 (sk) vs 8 (town) is very common in 12 player games.

[Adel]

Im sorry guys i wont be posting much because i broke my right arm and i have cast and a sling on so i cant type allot. if u want me replaced u could but if u dont mimd ill be a little less active.

i protected liam because i didnt have any case on him nor did i find him suspicious.. Adel because i didnt find him as suspicious as others. thats all ii can wrie ask me any questions and ill try to answer

I don't understand how you thought that DJ was the least scummy on N1 if you didn't know that he had claimed bullet proof.

How is it that you didn't know that DJ claim "bulletproof"?

I don't understand how you thought that Liam was the least scummy the same night that DJ thought that Liam was the most scummy.

[Adel]

^^ this is terrible. Adel's next.

someone hammer this home.

What do you mean by these two things? You seem to think Adel's vote is scummy, but you also want someone to hammer?

the logic is terrible. using a mod post to determine your vote is heinous.

also: Adel is scummy regardless of the flip. ABR wants out, a replacement is more work for the mod regardless of alignment. grant the wish. if he's scum, great, if he's not then Adel is 100%.

why did you kill laim instead of me?

[Adel]

as far as i'm concerned jvw and myself are obvtown.

what made you think that jvw was obviously town?

Why don't you think that he is obviously town anymore?

[Adel]

Why do you think that a 3 man scum group in a 12 player game makes a sk less likely?

games i have been in with sk are usually 2 mafia/1 sk. either way, i don't believe sk exists in this set up.

links, for real.

[Adel]

Why do you think that a 3 man scum group in a 12 player game makes a sk less likely?

games i have been in with sk are usually 2 mafia/1 sk. either way, i don't believe sk exists in this set up.

links, for real.

like, which of these mini games that you apparently were in had 2 mafia and 1 sk?

Minis: 859, 858, 850, 845, 830, 829, 819, 808, 802, 783, 745, 737,

a place you can look to check easily: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9460

[Adel]

what I had time to look up tonight:

859:
858
850
845
830
829: 3 mafia (watcher, goon, ninja), vig, two shot doctor(DJ), tracker, roleblocker, 5 townie -- according to http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9460
819:
808
802:

3 mafia

(2 goon, 1 rolecop),

1 sk

( arsonist bus driver, kills by fire and is a busdriver), cop, firefighter (protects against fire), doctor, JOAT, 4 townie (DJ) -- according to http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82#1780482
783
745:

3 mafia

(2 goon and DJ was a mafia roleblocker see their quuicktopic at http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/QZBwYqQsCuvZk ),

1 sk

, cop, doc, 6 townies -- according to http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0
737

[Adel]

who is confirmed town right now?

[Adel]

i was a serial killer in game from another site. two man mafia in that one. i was in a game on this site modded by juls which had two mafia and a roleblocking serial killer. also, mini 811..

links or it didn't happen.

[Adel]

. there is zero evidence of sk.

why didn't you claim your kill when you claimed bulletproof?

[Adel]

DJ: who is scum?

[Adel]

he can watch the doc to make sure the doc is protecting him and not murdering someone else.

ummm.

{Motion Detected}: If $Target targeted a player with an ability

means that targeting muh would only tell jvw if muh used an ability or not.

[Adel]

protecting adel is foolish.

why?

[Adel]

Don, please tell me how JVW's investigative role would actually help this town at this point.

please answer this don.

[Adel]

what I had time to look up tonight:

859: 3 mafia (gang leader, gang banger (DJ), gang member), cop mason, jailkeeper mason, 7 vanilla -- acording to http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12433
858
850 3 werewolf (vanilla) 2 vigs (DJ), 1 doctor, 7 townies -- according to http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82#1909982
845 3 ---

DDD, please tell us about this game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12257
830
829: 3 mafia (watcher, goon, ninja), vig, two shot doctor(DJ), tracker, roleblocker, 5 townie -- according to http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9460
819:
808
802:

3 mafia

(2 goon, 1 rolecop),

1 sk

( arsonist bus driver, kills by fire and is a busdriver), cop, firefighter (protects against fire), doctor, JOAT, 4 townie (DJ) -- according to http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82#1780482
783
745:

3 mafia

(2 goon and DJ was a mafia roleblocker see their quuicktopic at http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/QZBwYqQsCuvZk ),

1 sk

, cop, doc, 6 townies -- according to http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0
737[

[Adel]

don,

1. why didn't you claim your kill when you claim bullet proof?
2. why did you kill Liam instead of me right after you breadcrumbed killing me if ABR was town?

Adel is scummy regardless of the flip. ABR wants out, a replacement is more work for the mod regardless of alignment. grant the wish. if he's scum, great, if he's not then Adel is 100%.

source: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 28#2069728
3. If you thought that Liam was guilty why didn't you ever vote for him?
4. why did you forget to claim that you have an Investigation Modifier?
5. If you thought liam was scummy, why didn't you ever voice suspicions of him in this thread?

[Adel]

845 3 ---

DDD, please tell us about this game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12257

The setup was actually two scum and a cult mentor and then cult mentee.

We actually had a scenario vaguely like this in terms of concept. We were in a four person MYLO with Don with Don having a cop innocent on him. However, there was still a slim possibility that Don was a mafia godfather so we still no lynched over Don's strenous objections because it's bad policy to attempt to outguess the mod, Don was NKed and we (the town) won the game. Here we sit with the possibility that Don is a bulletproof SK and even though it might actually be likelier that he is a vig, it doesn't make sense to outguess the mod as to whether or not Don is a vig or SK, we should eliminate the possibility that he's an SK that can auto-win in LYLO by lynching him, simplify the game and get a confirmed townie (as far as I can tell) to LYLO.

why don't you think that he might be mafia?

[Adel]

DDD and DJ, why do you think that ABR replaced out so quickly in mini 845 (which both of you were in) compared to how long he took to replace out of this game?

[Adel]

5. If you thought liam was scummy, why didn't you ever voice suspicions of him in this thread?

again. didn't think he was scummy until the end of the day. no chance to "voice" suspicions.

what posts did he make at the end of that day were scummy, and made before you have a chance to respond?

[Adel]

an investigation modifier according to the sample pms is a passive ability that any player can have. how is his claim "sub-optimal"?

Fucking fuck.

Unvote: Don_Johnson

why did you unvote?

~~~

I'll catch up with the game on Day 2, for now we need to lynch

unvote, vote: josh lyman

Josh, if you're a power role claim now, it might not be too late.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 86#2021186

Muh, claim?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 15#2041515

[Adel]

adel: do you believe ddd is 100% town?

nope

if not, why have you avoided questioning him?

you could ask the same question about muh and jvw, neither of whom I believe to be 100% town, and whom I haven't been questioning either.

Perhaps a more direct question would've been to ask why I've been questioning you so much, which has a very simple answer: I think that DJ is the most likey to be scum.

vote:don_johnson

[Adel]

there is another scum regardless of what you honestly believe me to be.

I agree. You are scum, and there is one more. I need to know if you are SK or mafia in order to find that last scum player.

That your claim of having killed Liam wasn't countered doesn't bother me in the least. It certainly doesn't mean that you can't be mafia. It just means that if you are mafia then DDD or jvw is the SK who chose not to counter you.

I don't buy your day 1 claim of bulletproof with no other abilities.

I don't buy your claim of one-shot vig with no investigation modifiers or other passive abilities.

I don't buy your claim of killing Liam instead of me as a town-aligned vig.

I don't buy your constant claim that being suspicious of your claim is a scum-tell. Town players should be hella suspicious of your claim of killing Liam.

I don't buy that you being early on the Josh wagon clears you of being scum with him. As you once said in a scum quicktopic

"i would sya we buss each other if need be, but try and make good arguments instead of bullshit. we need the other two to come out smelling clean, right?"

source: http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/QZBwYqQsCuvZk

[Adel]

EBWOP:
I don't buy your constant claim that being suspicious of your claim is a scum-tell. Town players should've been hella suspicious of your claim, even before you added to your claim by claiming the Liam kill.

[Adel]

congratulations on finding another piece of evidence from outside this game thread to bolster your case. for someone so intent on building a "meta" case you seem to be completely content

not

investigating anyone else.

your ignorance of physical in thread evidence is noted. you have not produced a single piece of evidence from this game that implicates me as scum and cherry picking comments from other games is called using quotes out of context. if you

really

looked at my meta you would notice that i play every game different.

I noticed that in your first post following your "bulletproof" claim you appealed to information from outside of this game:

after thinking it through, i think this role is a bit like a miller in that it is a claim which will not likely be believed if elicited under pressure or at a later time in the game, especially if we don't lynch correctly and early giving scum a foothold on town decisions. also, by claiming early i open myself up to vig attempts, weak doctor protects, or cop investigations to prove my alignment and ability. like i said, i think its important that when given an oppurtunity to have a confirmed townie in lylo, we should most certainly do everything in our power to make it happen. main con is giving scum info on who not to target. other con would be if they have some sort of way to get around my ability. i am not revealing any more role info at this time, but i feel this part best to be out in the open.

if you read my town games you will see that i am almost always lynched. in this game, that could be disastrous.

yet every attempt I've made to check that out has been met with resistance and hostility from you.

[Adel]

you are truly useless. are you now arguing the existence of a four player scum team?

congratulations on finding another piece of evidence from outside this game thread to bolster your case. for someone so intent on building a "meta" case you seem to be completely content

not

investigating anyone else.

your ignorance of physical in thread evidence is noted. you have not produced a single piece of evidence from this game that implicates me as scum and cherry picking comments from other games is called using quotes out of context. if you

really

looked at my meta you would notice that i play every game different.

whatever. its out of my hands at this point.

ddd lynch should end the game unless you are scum number four.

that much is becoming painfully obvious.

Actually, you just brought up the possible existence of a 4 man scum team for the fist time in this game.... and now you are attempting to pair me with DDD... interesting.

~~~

Why aren't you suspicious of muh believing your claim

and

choosing to protect you N1 when bulletproof townies don't need doctor protection?

[Adel]

bulletproof vigilante

1. kill (1-shot)
2. bullet proof vest, bullet proof vest
3. none
4. town
5. call me liam for vig kill

6. same reason as suspicion of josh. fear of nk immune player. only scum fear 'em.

7. ddd

which posts did Liam express fear of you in?

[Adel]

Why aren't you suspicious of muh believing your claim and choosing to protect you N1 when bulletproof townies don't need doctor protection?

there is no evidence of him being scum at this point.

dude, he claims that he protected you because you were the least scummy in his opinion, yet you'd claimed bulletproof by that point.

IF he believed you, why would he protect you?

That kind of discrepancy in night choices (almost as scummy as you saying that I am 100% scum if ABR is town, and then killing Liam for no apparent reason) IS evidence of scumminess.

[Adel]

way to take another quote out of context.

I quoted the entire post. That places the line in context.

in response to your ebwop. reread my original claim. i clearly explained what my role was and that there may be other facets i was not divulging.

bull. In your claim you made no such remark. Under questioning following your claim you gave yourself some weasel room in this post:

It could also be that Chinaman sees him as scum, and therefore he sees it as a poor attempt at faking scumhunting.
Personally, I don't have a scum / town read on him, so in this case

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

i am not.

What are other typical roles that have NK immunity?

a) i deliberately phrased my role claim to avoid being placed into the "nk immune" category. i may simply have any number of bulletproof vests. my role may also have other facets. i may, in fact, have a static nk immune ability. clarifying this only helps scum so i would rather stew in ambiguity until necessary.

b) to answer the question excluding the word "other": i have seen godfather's and serial killers carry nk immune traits. i do not believe that either of those roles can be considered to "typically" carry nk immunity, however. I have never had an nk immune gf role, and the one serial killer role i had was not nk immune. i don't know of "town roles" other than "bulletproof townie", "townie with bulletproof vest" etc.

part of why i'm claiming is to put it out in the open early and give town more choices in how to deal with it, rather than risk claiming later in the game with less credibility under pressure and losing a key town advantage.

Don, while I see your point of China's scum slip, I could use a little more. Also, I don't like how you say you have other suspects but don't mention them.

holding off on my list until i get more reactions. only one of my other suspects has posted since my claim.

i don't have more regarding chinaman. i read his post as a "genuine" scumslip. i believe it a lynchable offense on day 1 regardless of a "townie" read.

[Adel]

bulletproof vigilante

1. kill (1-shot)
2. bullet proof vest, bullet proof vest
3. none
4. town
5. call me liam for vig kill

6. same reason as suspicion of josh. fear of nk immune player. only scum fear 'em.

7. ddd

which posts did Liam express fear of you in?

[Adel]

which posts did Liam express fear of you in?

his late switch to a town wagon and his "sideways" comment about me. he seemed to be setting up his run for the next day while knowingly lynching a townie.

post numbers, please.

[Adel]

you call it "weasel room", i call it "smart town play".

you also said

reread my original claim. i clearly explained what my role was and that there may be other facets i was not divulging.

which is simply not true.

your paranoia is playing into the hands of a scum win.

negative. I am certain that I have identified a person who is scum: you.

[Adel]

very easy to find, bro. his last few iso posts before i shot him. 496 is entirely hypocritical.

I call that scumfail:

^^ this is terrible. Adel's next.

someone hammer this home.

What do you mean by these two things? You seem to think Adel's vote is scummy, but you also want someone to hammer?

^^ this is terrible. Adel's next.

someone hammer this home.

What do you mean by these two things? You seem to think Adel's vote is scummy, but you also want someone to hammer?

the logic is terrible. using a mod post to determine your vote is heinous.

also: Adel is scummy regardless of the flip. ABR wants out, a replacement is more work for the mod regardless of alignment. grant the wish. if he's scum, great, if he's not then Adel is 100%.

if he thought that 496 was so scummy, he wouldn't have made 497.

[Adel]

and if 497 was sincere, then I would be dead right now.

[Adel]

Adel if DJ didnt kill liam then who did. Try thinkin logically

Who could've killed Liam from my point of view:
DJ-vig, DJ-SK, DJ-werewolf, jvw-SK, jvw-werewolf, DDD-SK, DDD-werewolf, muh-sk, muh-werewolf.

A DJ-mafia player could claim the kill without actually having committed the kill, especially if he is a member of a 4 player scum team.

[Adel]

Im sorry guys i wont be posting much because i broke my right arm and i have cast and a sling on so i cant type allot. if u want me replaced u could but if u dont mimd ill be a little less active.

I don't have a problem with you being inactive so long as you do one thing for us. Please have someone write "muh316" on your cast, take a picture of it, and post that picture in this thread. That way we will know that you aren't lying.

Thanks!

here u can see the sling but not my cast
http://i45.tinypic.com/2vcf3o4.jpg

could you take another picture for us?

I'm a little bit paranoid that you just found someone at your school that had a sling.

[Adel]

jvw and DDD,

why do you guys believe muh's claim?

hey muh, who did you protect n1?

I protected DJ
Night 2 Was Adel
Night 3 was Liam(who roleblocked me, no wonder I was NK'ed)

He seemed the least scummiest at that time during day 1 to me.

Wait you claimed bulletproof.
doh!
aww man the stupidity
but wulfy was macho so i wasnt able to do anything

[Adel]

Adel if DJ didnt kill liam then who did. Try thinkin logically

what was your logic in protecting a bulletproof townie?

[Adel]

what I think the town is up against, in order of probability
(DJ) as SK
(DJ + muh) as werewolf
(DJ + one other player (muh or DDD)) as mafia vs. unknown SK (DDD or jvw)

[Adel]

I suck, EBWOP

what I think the town is up against, in order of probability
(DJ) as SK vs. 1 mafia (DDD or jvw or muh)
(DJ + muh) as werewolf
(DJ + one other player (muh or DDD)) as mafia vs. unknown SK (DDD or jvw)

[Adel]

adel: its called... thinking. its a dynamic process. there was no immediate revelation. i mentioned earlier that i had considered holding the kill. further thinking on the subject occurred and i made my decision.

2. why did you kill Liam instead of me right after you breadcrumbed killing me if ABR was town?

it was liam's end of day comments which led me to use my shot. i have already answered this. i didn't breadcrumb killing you. i haven't breadcrumbed anything in this game. i actually considered holding the shot, but i felt that liam was a good target. i had him as town ealier. his switch seemed off.

3. If you thought that Liam was guilty why didn't you ever vote for him?

never had the chance. his scumminess came out at the end of the day when ABR was already set to be lynched.

which of these convinced you that Liam was scum?

Tempted to agree with Adel here, but then again I'd be loathe to vote for ABR and put him in range of a quickhammer after such a short day.

Muh, do you have anything to add about why his claim\unclaim\fumble was so scummy?

ABR: either you're being a dick by not replacing out and desperately trying to hurt the town or you're running an awful gambit or you're scum.
All I can do is echo everyone else in asking why not get yourself replaced out?

^^ this is terrible. Adel's next.

someone hammer this home.

What do you mean by these two things? You seem to think Adel's vote is scummy, but you also want someone to hammer?

I think we're massclaiming tomorrow

vote: ABR

[Adel]

in addition to the total of "WTF, why would a docotr protect me if he thought I was the least scummy following my bulletproof claim" there is also:

1, 2, 3. I am the (a?) motion detector, see role PM in post 2.

i'll have a response later today, but it seems to me that i have been on the right trail. today should be between ddd and adel. i see no reason to vote ddd.

scott brosius= adel

vote: adel

smart night actions = win for town.

i am going to reevaluate jvw as well at this point. i didn't realize his claim was straight from the "samples".

more proof of DJ's lack of attention for scumhunting.

[Adel]

EBWOP: in addition to DJ's total lack of "WTF, why would a docotr protect me if he thought I was the least scummy following my bulletproof claim" there is also:

[Adel]

please answer this

which of these convinced you that Liam was scum?

Tempted to agree with Adel here, but then again I'd be loathe to vote for ABR and put him in range of a quickhammer after such a short day.

Muh, do you have anything to add about why his claim\unclaim\fumble was so scummy?

ABR: either you're being a dick by not replacing out and desperately trying to hurt the town or you're running an awful gambit or you're scum.
All I can do is echo everyone else in asking why not get yourself replaced out?

^^ this is terrible. Adel's next.

someone hammer this home.

What do you mean by these two things? You seem to think Adel's vote is scummy, but you also want someone to hammer?

I think we're massclaiming tomorrow

vote: ABR

I'm trying to replicate the logic that would lead a DJ-vig to kill Liam, and I'm not finding it.

[Adel]

Also, DJ please explain why you accept that a docotor who believed you to be the least scummy person on day 1 would choose to protect you with a doctor protection after you claimed to be bulletproof.

[Adel]

just in case we are both town and just having trouble understanding each other, I'm going to take this very slow and make it detailed.

Please reply in kind so we can find out if we can understand each other or not.

what is your interest in protecting ddd?

his is the only claim I can believe without hesitation. The other three are all hella scummy to me. Your's especially.

What evidence do you have on ddd? He hasn't been active? When I ran the numbers about a week ago:

Code: Select all

player 	words	posts	words/posts
jvw	3753	47	79.8510638297872
DDD	5523	48	115.0625
d_j	4760	46	103.478260869565
muh	4716	59	79.9322033898305
Adel	7924	68	116.529411764706

he was the second most active player after myself. Better yet, when I read through the game using my vote record diagram, each of his posts make sense to me coming from the POV of a vanilla townie. IMHO he is the player most likely to be town.

Everyone was inactive in this game, mostly. All of the town players are at fault for that. You pointing a finger at DDD for a lack of activity is totally hypocritical in my eyes. Only recently have you been active. If a lack of activity = scummy, then your suspicion of me doesn't make sense, and you should be suspicious of muh and jvw over DDD for lack of activity. Your application of your logic is inconsistent.

Even worse, your explanations just don't make sense. For instance this one

which posts did Liam express fear of you in?

his late switch to a town wagon and his "sideways" comment about me. he seemed to be setting up his run for the next day while knowingly lynching a townie.

doesn't answer the question. So I asked you for specific post numbers so I could look at the evidence that led you to that conclusion.

which posts did Liam express fear of you in?

his late switch to a town wagon and his "sideways" comment about me. he seemed to be setting up his run for the next day while knowingly lynching a townie.

post numbers, please.

to which you replied

very easy to find, bro. his last few iso posts before i shot him. 496 is entirely hypocritical.

which still doesn't answer the question regarding which of Liam's posts he expressed fear of you in. But it at least points me in the direction of 496.

Liam totally doesn't express fear of you in 496.

very easy to find, bro. his last few iso posts before i shot him. 496 is entirely hypocritical.

I call that scumfail:

^^ this is terrible. Adel's next.

someone hammer this home.

What do you mean by these two things? You seem to think Adel's vote is scummy, but you also want someone to hammer?

^^ this is terrible. Adel's next.

someone hammer this home.

What do you mean by these two things? You seem to think Adel's vote is scummy, but you also want someone to hammer?

the logic is terrible. using a mod post to determine your vote is heinous.

also: Adel is scummy regardless of the flip. ABR wants out, a replacement is more work for the mod regardless of alignment. grant the wish. if he's scum, great, if he's not then Adel is 100%.

if he thought that 496 was so scummy, he wouldn't have made 497.

so when I reread your claim

bulletproof vigilante

1. kill (1-shot)
2. bullet proof vest, bullet proof vest
3. none
4. town
5. call me liam for vig kill
6. same reason as suspicion of josh. fear of nk immune player. only scum fear 'em.
7. ddd

the reason for your night move totally doesn't make sense to me.

Muh's reasons for protecting you don't make sense either, but he wasn't sitting on an unclaimed kill.

[Adel]

i already explained my thinking in the liam kill. i cited the post which stood out to me and yet you quote several and ask me to choose.

6. same reason as suspicion of josh. fear of nk immune player. only scum fear 'em.

which posts did Laim express fear of nk immune players in? You have not answered this question. Liams post at 496 does not express fear of NK immune players.

[Adel]

then voting said player himself with an implication of "massclaim" for the following day. had ABR flipped scum, what need would there have been for a massclaim? hindsight is 20/20 my friend. i digested the thread before i made my decision to shoot. the way liam ended the day led me to believe he was scum.

bull.

I think we're massclaiming tomorrow

vote: ABR

does not "express fear of a nk-immune player"

while your most recent in a long series of bullshit explanations may be plausible, your inconsistency is utterly scummy.

OF course I've read him in iso, as I said earlier

Better yet, when I read through the game using my vote record diagram, each of his posts make sense to me coming from the POV of a vanilla townie. IMHO he is the player most likely to be town.

When and where did Liam express fear of a nk-imune player?

[Adel]

I totally have trouble believing Liam's "mass-claim tomorrow" was a enough convincing scumtell for a hesitant vig to pull the trigger on, especially after you said that I was 100% scum is ABR were town.

inactivity isn't the ddd case. the case is process of elimination due to in thread evidence. muh is number two.

lurking was a scumtell you counted against him earlier

ddd: reads town, could be lurking scum. can be confirmed through night actions possibly.

lynching adel leaves few options. a scum flip should win the game. a town flip leaves us with the chance for jvw to watch me, muh to protect jvw. have to go. thoughts?

where you characterized him as lurking.

[Adel]

you are wonderfully consistent in your terribleness.

no u

[Adel]

I love toying with caught scum

bulletproof vigilante

1. kill (1-shot)
2. bullet proof vest, bullet proof vest
3. none
4. town
5. call me liam for vig kill
6. same reason as suspicion of josh. fear of nk immune player. only scum fear 'em.
7. ddd

the reason for your night move totally doesn't make sense to me. Your original professed reason for killing Liam was that "same reason as suspicion of josh. fear of nk immune player. only scum fear 'em" but you are utterly unable to point out any evidence in thread that indicates that Liam feared a nk immune player.

Gather the kids around! This is what scum look like when they are caught! Such fun!

[Adel]

interesting. unfortunately, i can't be scum. go ahead and cling tight to your wonderful semantics argument. i guess pointing out liam's slip of knowledge that ABR was town while attempting to implicate me as scum is me being "unableto point out any evidence."

it took you days to find a post that you could point at and misconstrue as "evidence" -- and it isn't for the same reason as you originally pointed at in your claim. You didn't take his post that way at the time, and if you had that as a reason when you killed him you would've used it in your explanation far far earlier.

you are so brilliant it hurts.

thank you. I try very hard.

[Adel]

you could at least try to convince me that someone else is scum. Insulting me probably won't help you convince me.

[Adel]

you don't believe me. no matter what i say, you are not going to believe me.

you siad that you killed him because he feared you. You can not point at a post where he expressed fear of you.

You lied and got caught. Die now please.

[Adel]

I think we're massclaiming tomorrow

vote: ABR

does not "express fear of a nk-immune player"

while your most recent in a long series of bullshit explanations may be plausible, your inconsistency is utterly scummy.
When and where did Liam express fear of a nk-imune player?

plus, in his "I think we're massclaiming tomorrow" it is clearly implied "if ABR is town" --

and

6. same reason as suspicion of josh. fear of nk immune player. only scum fear 'em.

remains unsupported.

My solution to your misdirection is repetition.

[Adel]

good game. I feel a little let down by the setup: I really didn't have to try as hard as I did in order to win. All of you were so scummy in my eyes I was pretty convinced that at least two of the last five living players were scum.

[Adel]

why did you quit ABR?