The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[milkshake]

Ugh, there's

alot

of player overlap between this game and Plum's!

Daykill SpyreX

kill: VP Baltar

Interesting.

For my part, I'll

Vote: Kublai Khan

for not being quite as brutal as his grandaddy.

[milkshake]

Vote: Kise.

Wagon gogogog.

Don't wagon. Because this is super handy/interesting.

FoS: Milkshake for coming up guilty during my pre-game investigation.

My guess is that you didn't get to choose your target? No

way

you investigated me at random. Fortunately for you, I can cure you of your insanity (yes, you're insane at the moment) since my role lets me target one person every night and if they are totally insane, I will make them sane.

Sound like a plan?

[milkshake]

What...? He was just joking around with the Jester-Vigilante thing...

...right?

[milkshake]

What about the investigation claim?

I would also like to know: what about the investigation claim, Kise?

And, if it is legit, did you direct it yourself? If so, extreme coincidence.

[milkshake]

@milk - Now that we know that investigation thing was false, thoughts on what is happening?

I was just happy with my little role interaction and now I am sad because no cop investigated me.

Other than that... wel, I thought we were over the DeathNote "slip" so I was surprised when kmd joined in on that.

[milkshake]

Oh, also I was under the definite impression that miller claim was a null-tell or slight town tell because it meant cops had something to test their sanity on. (Mafia claiming miller = guilty result, townie claiming miller also = guilty result). Unless you think we have a scum that looks innocent to cops claiming miller?

[milkshake]

@milk - Did you think that Kise investigated you?

Very yes.

[milkshake]

Wait, don't you think we/Jordan should wait until we have actual data (read: it isn't Day 1) to use the vig, especially since, assuming jordan is town, we lose a town player in the process? Or is it simply that we can't wait over night because he'll get night killed.

[milkshake]

First, having him suicide confirms he isn't mafia, second it allows us to build extra reads, according to how whoever he kills flip.

True... well, QFT, then.

@milk - Who is scum?

I think Rosso Carne is lynchable to the point of possibly being a joker, so does that count as scum?

[milkshake]

I can see your point about not considering jesters. Honestly, if you start that, where do you stop? It is like the ultimate WIFOM trap.

And, if I one does ignore the possibility of a jesteresque role, after reading Rosso Carne in isolation, there is absolutely no reason not to lynch him. Maybe he's immune to lynches, haha, is there such a thing?

Unvote, vote: Rosso Carne.

[milkshake]

"And if I one does ignore..."

It's either I do ignore or one does ignore, milkshake, make up your mind.

I'll go with "And if one does ignore..."

[milkshake]

Rosso Carne isn't scum. If he were scum, he'd be more careful. I know he can be.

I just really don't like this defense. It makes sense, but it is such a slippery slope.

milkshake is not scum, otherwise his buddies would have bus'ed him so hard our heads would spin.

I've also claimed... for all the good it did me....

My vote on the Jordan thing is to blow up Rosso Carne. I could also see blowing up someone who has a higher likelyhood of flipping town, but would give us more information if they did flip scum.

[milkshake]

Though, I'm pretty sure I know what Rosso Carne's ability is.

What is it? Or don't you want to share.

[milkshake]

I just don't think Snow Bunny is going to flip scum.

Ok, after some thoughts, I decided to do it. Claim: I'm a miller. I was hesitant to do it, as I have no apparent reason to claim, but I do. I've learned that millers can help investigative roles by providing a "safe" test. And it's better if I claim early on.

I'm nothing more than a beggar. Some guy gave me money to give some message to some guard. After that, I was enjoying my new-earned money when the news that The Giver was killed broke out. And it seems, that, somehow, I feel guilty for that (for passing the message).

It seems legit. :/

[milkshake]

I guess nevermind some on milkshake. Rereading EVERYTHING made the claim resurface she made, which still makes me itchy but.

Yes... me having investigation-related role -> me surprised the kise investigated me -> me asking about kise's investigation because we have a role interaction (I can cure him, he can reinvestigate me).

Of course now I learn that I screwed up, because Kise was messing with me (annoying thing to do by the way, although he couldn't have known that I would do what I did). At least I have a very not-powerful role. ^^

I still don't get the Rosso Carne thing, by the way.

[milkshake]

Yes, considering I've been vehemently against the spam I am totally looking for quantity over quality.

Wait a second...

[milkshake]

My, BM's big block of text was difficult to read! However:

Milkshake's logic in 311 is very odd-seems to mimic that given by SB.

Right... actually that bears talking about further. I think I understand what you are thinking.

However, the "miller claim as a way for cops to test their sanity" idea (which SB mentioned originally and which I mentioned when talking about miller claim) and the "miller claim so that cops don't waste an investigation on you" idea (which presumably folks would be OK with) are actually nearly the same thing. They are based on the same fact, which is that a claimed miller has an guarunteed investigation result. They are just different conclusions drawn about what cops should do about that result.

Tell me if I am understanding this wrong. This comes from a game I read... my impression from that game I read was that this is why claiming miller was a null tell (that's the conclusion the people there drew).

Of course, this is largely just theory at the moment... since the whole SB thing has gone

way

beyond his miller claim. But a miller claim is some actual hard data so that's why I like it...

[milkshake]

the whole SB thing has gone

way

beyond his miller claim.

Oooops, I was thinking about a different game for a second... so my exageration of how big the SB case is was overstated! It still has gone beyond his miller claim, though.

[milkshake]

I wouldn't have minded if ~Jordan killed Rosso Carne... although I don't think he's a jester any more.

[milkshake]

Claim:
Musician. I can play music to someone at night. If they like the music, they reach a spiritual state which leaves them unable to do anything, but also protects them. If they don't like the music, they kill themselves over it. So I'm a JK/vig and don't know which when I target someone.

Vaya, my entire childhood was all about music. I started playing at a young age and most people were impressed. All I want is to share my music. I've just recently realized how strong my music really is.

I was totally neutral on KMD until reading this claim. This claim provides great data. It is, as far as I can see, a very bad claim.

The flavor (although maybe a good try) seems made up on the spot (I, uh, was just a musician for my entire life?). He also doesn't give us a name ending in -er (The Verber; ex. The Giver), as I hypothesize all role names should.

Doc is a classic thing for scum to claim as an emergency measure, yes? The "JK" thing was added in there because kmd knows full well that plain Doc would look fishy.

And, my role PM also supports Plum's hypothesis:

Where were you/what were you doing when the Giver was killed and why did you not mention it when Vaya asked you to claim your flavor?

When kmd realized he should have included that info, he did the smart (but scum) thing of saying "How odd, my role PM doesn't have that."

I must

unvote, vote: kmd4390

[milkshake]

Doc is a classic thing for scum to claim as an emergency measure, yes? The "JK" thing was added in there because kmd knows full well that plain Doc would look fishy.

'Doh . Newbie confusion of role names. Should read:
"Doc (and by association jailkeeper) is a classic thing for scum to claim as an emergency measure, yes? The vig thing was added in there because kmd knows full well that plain JK/Doc would look fishy. "

[milkshake]

I am The Rats. Special type. Self-aligned. My power is the thing that I'm not saying, but will catch the SK. Win condition is that I win when someone (I don't know their alignment) is lynched. If people want me to even say who that is in order to stay alive, I will. They could still be scum, so I don't mind saying who it is.

This one is believable... (Yes, I'm being captain obvious.)

He isn't town... he's trying to win before the town does... does the town want to minimize people who win before they do?

[milkshake]

Right... but if you win... do we win less? (I guess not. I suppose it all depends on whether or not the guy you want to lynch is town or scum.)

Other question... You might find the SK, but is it in your interests to tell us (truthfully) who s/he is?

[milkshake]

I better

unvote

at the moment.

[milkshake]

Oh and my win condition is just to get Sajin lynched and be on his wagon. If he's NK'd, or if he's lynched without me, I need the SK to die any way possible.

Not sure why you didn't say this at first. It seems a bit like you are editting your claim. At the same time, it is a believable claim, but that could be because you are working off your real role, but modifying it so that we will keep you alive.

Give me one night to confirm myself. I can give someone's rolename. I'll hit someone VERY unlikely to be killed by anyone. No one, except maybe the SK, will even want to go out of their way to get me lynched by using their kill that way. If I don't have a rolename tomorrow, I'll accept my lynch tomorrow.

You could hit me because my role name is breadcrumbed and I don't have a very useful role? Maybe someone else has a better idea, though.

So I can seriously help the town and am confirmable. I have no motivation to lie about my results because I'm dead the minute I'm caught.

The last quote makes me fairly certain that KMD can indeed find role names and would indeed want to tell the truth to avoid being lynched (even if otherwise he might not be exactly pro-town). So he would give the town a little information. I'm still not totally positive he's being 100% honest about his win condition among other things? But it seems to fit with the flavor he gave us... so I'd believe it for now since he can confirm tomorow.

So...

Why should I believe you this time?

I guess because it makes sense this time. And he can't just be using what he learned from his first claim to make a believable second one, because he has to at least tell us some role names to confirm/survive.

1. Has Sajin confirmed you are telling the truth?

Agreed... Sajin could provide information and possibly confirm KMD in this way. Another thing: A slavedriver doesn't seem too council-aligned. Hmmm.

3. I dont understand your win condition. How can you win if Sajin dies and you are not on the lynch?

I think he wins if A) He lynches Sajin or B)Both Sajin and the SK die by other means.

[milkshake]

I highly doubt Sajin is the Rodent Tamer. The PM talks specifically about both as if they are two different people. I wouldn't mind lynching Sajin to test it though.[/desperate plea]. It tells me specifically in my power that the SK's rolename is Rodent Tamer.

How is a Rodent Tamer an SK? He trains his rats to go kill people? I guess it would make sense why you see him, then, since you're a rat...

But then what is Sajin? Another Rodent Tamer? A special Rodent Tamer only for you?

Why don't you investigate Sajin instead? (If you live.) That could confirm you.

I was gonna investigate Ben btw. I think he's the Rodent Tamer.

Investigating Ben on the other hand would not confirm you, yes? Why do you think Ben, of all people, is the Rodent Tamer?

I'm not going after you tonight. You might be a vig target. I don't think I want to say who I'm targeting.

Uh-oh, I'm a vig target? Why would I be a vig target if I was obvtown? Maybe you don't want to investigate me because investigating me

would

confirm your role (or the opposite.)

[milkshake]

The list was just funny, I think. Thanks for the laughs 1150 .

Your claiming was really not too well done at all, I think... we'll see if you actually flip The Musician?

[milkshake]

Popular Tajo was a smart or otherwise informed vig that killed scum (Kublai Khan), but then died himself? The Scribe sounds like he might be able to some informing... maybe he somehow informed the wrong person (Tajo) and got killed for it? Maybe, in doing so, he also somehow revealed Tajo to be the vig and the scum took the opportunity to pick him off? (I'm totally guessing).

(Read back over tubby216, and wasn't too terrible convinced either way. He tried to lynch snow bunny, link with KK could be coincidence. He contibuted to kmd lynch, which turned out not to be against town, but wasn't against scum either.)

[milkshake]

Guys, it explicitly said rats.

Exactly, and Tajo was the rat tamer, so there you go. No brilliant information really comes of it, unfortunately enough. Unless we can figure out Saijin's alignment based on the fact that kmd wanted him dead (I'm pretty sure we can't)

Can we move on from this please?

For sure.

Also vote: Scope

Why would that be again?

[milkshake]

Bote: tubby216

Earlier I said that the SB lynching was maybe a null-tell, but I never did think claimed millers were scummy, and KK was trying to lynch SB as well. So I might as well vote tubby at the moment... got nothing better to do!

[milkshake]

Knowing SB's role name and/or flavor couldn't really hurt the town by the way... could it? So maybe we should be asking for that.

[milkshake]

Vote: Stark Makes perfect sense with kublai's flip as well as him still being unhelpful plus the previous observations of him.

I'm afraid I don't understand this very well. I reread stark and KK in ISO and couldn't find any mention of KK in stark's posts and only peripheral mention of stark in KK's posts.

[milkshake]

Maybe it's a dumb idea, but the way in which SB was saying that cops should use her to test their investigations bothered me.

Could it be possible that it's some kind of trap? That she might have some kind of ability that does bad things to people who target her?

Last night I tried to give my BLACK potion to SB. Yea, thats right, I tried to (I hoped) kill the miller.

Yet, somehow I killed myself.

Wow, yeah, I'm actually surprised I missed this myself up until now. I'll happily do the SB thing after we hear her explanation.

(I do also note, though, that SpryeX did not actually end up having anything bad happen to him. Are you NK immune SpyreX? Or anything else?)

[milkshake]

So, what are you suggesting? I'm scum that somehow ghosted myself and am using it to try and kill a miller? Or..?

If you're talking to me, I'm not suggesting anything. I'm pretty happy with your post. The dead-next-night thing seems plausible... it's also very easily testable if we wait.

[milkshake]

By the way...

I am an Alchemist. Each night I can give someone one of my myriad of potions (and there's alot of them). Of course they're all nice and colored... but not labeled. So I have no idea what my potions can do (but based on colors I can take somewhat of a guess).

Anyone having flashbacks to "I am a Musician?" If you're going to claim, why on earth would you call yourself an Alchemist instead of giving us your real role name? I thought we had already been over this...

[milkshake]

Okay... but why's he town and what's with his lame claim? I believe that he did take an action on SB, because he has that weird death thing going for him.

But... fakeclaim as town? We already saw how that worked out for kmd...!

[milkshake]

What? I already said...

Anyone having flashbacks to "I am a Musician?" If you're going to claim, why on earth would you call yourself an Alchemist instead of giving us your real role name? I thought we had already been over this...

And you're

really

attached to SpyreX aren't you... should I know why?

[milkshake]

Well, he could be called The Alchemist, but not "an alchemist" like "a godfather" or "a roleblocker." And (while I agree it's

possible

that he has them) using random potions is not exactly very difficult to make up, and neither does it fit with the theme of people granted powers at birth by the Dark Goma.

I'm not the hugest fan of flavor arguments, but I can't ignore them when they appear...

Previously, BM and I had said that we could lynch SpyreX tomorow if he didn't dissapear on his own. But I don't think that he's a ghost, and I don't see why he would be fully resurrected for just one day of life.

unvote tubby, vote: SpyreX

because I still think his claim is bad. Hopefully DGB doesn't go berserk...

[milkshake]

Besides, according to his own claim, he tried to give SB a black potion, possibly resulting in whatever happened to him...

[milkshake]

The votes on Spyrex are disguised as disliking his claim

That's not really a disguise...

something is up with them two and SB

Yeah "something" is... I think he may have claimed miller to get people to take night actions on him so that his ability would do something to them. I'd love to hear SB's explanation.

"Kmd wins with benmage's lynch". [...] if it's true then benmage could be an SK and needs to be lynched immediately.

KMD said his role PM talkign about The Rodent Tamer (SK) and Saijin (who, according to your note, is not Saijin but BM) as if they were different people.

if Spyrex actually was scum he would not have tried to kill snow bunny unless he lacks the aformentioned two brain cells

Then again, if his claim is bogus (as at least Papa Zito and me think it might be, although DGB disagrees vehemently), SpyreX could have done anything. As SerialClergyman says, any number of scenarios could result in the deaths and not-deaths that we have seen so far.

[milkshake]

Sorry, EBWOP: "KMD said his role PM talkign" should be "KMD said his role PM talked."

Khan's obsession with Rosso is indeed odd though.

You mean the double voting thing? I think that's just about Rosso possibly/probably being the double voter. Not sure though.

[milkshake]

I believe that both SpyreX and Bunny are town.

I thought that they were, basically, mutually exclusive. If you believe that Spy gave SB a potion with intent to kill him, you should at least believe the Spy thought SB was scum, and you probably should also believe that SB quite possibly had an ability that "killed" Spy (or possibly turned his potion back on himself.) So why do you think Bunny is town? What about her inciting people to perform actions on her through her miller claim?

let me remind you all that Jordon had nothing but a bomb strapped to himself

We weren't really led to believe that, were we? "An ancient solution was remembered and Jordan gave DeathNote an innocent gift... a hug." (Paraphrasing). Doesn't this sound like Jordan is remembering some crazy suicidal power he knew he had? At the very least, it doesn't say anything about a bomb.

[milkshake]

I don't see how this should lead me to automatically agree with him, or blame bunny for his death. Really, I find this "Spy targeted bunny and it seems to have backfired, therefore it must be her fault and she is scum" logic to be jumping to conclusions.

It should not

automatically

lead you to agree with him, nor should it

automatically

lead you to blame for SB for whatever happened. However, both of those things seem fairly plausible. I do agree that, as I have said before, there are many possible explanations for the events we have seen. But you shouldn't blindly reject the most apparent explanations.

I see why you think SpyreX is town (you believe his claim, I think you are very wrong to believe his claim, though, and, myself, I do not.) However, I do not see why any of this causes you to believe that

Snow_Bunny

is town. In fact, if you think SpyreX is town, I can much more readily see why you might believe SB is now.

I find it much more reasonable to assume that then to think that he had the ability to create huge explosions out of nowhere.

Well SpyreX can look at his own body, so I don't think creating explosions is at all out of the question.

Still, I do want Bunny to explain in detail what happened to her last night, so we can maybe get this all figured out.

Much agreed.

[milkshake]

"SB is now" should be "SB is town." I'm starting to get sloppy with previewing my posts... tsk tsk!

[milkshake]

No! "SB is now" should

actually

be "SB is not!" Very sorry about that.

[milkshake]

Oh... that's a fair enough reason. Both tubby and kk went after sb pretty hard. There is a non-negligable chance of bussing, though, I think.

I'm most interested in SB's explanation, if any, of what's going on, and in SpyreX's (surprisingly lousy) claim as mentioned before.

[milkshake]

SpyreX, no one is concerned that your role doesn't end in -er. Why would we be? We're not stupid. As you say, you already said your role doesn't end in -er.

Personally I think the flavor and the claim is bad though. This is subjective, and I'm not certain about it, but it sounds just like the kind of thing someone would make up (someone who wasn't also making up all the other roles.) It doesn't fit very well. (You didn't give us any flavor either, and, well, if you're going to fullclaim why not _full_ claim.)

Spy, I have a role that interracts with people who have active roles and targetted you last night.

If you have this role, why did you target SpyreX?

Also I'll end this post with the usual request to hear from SB....

[milkshake]

whatever half-cocked theory you are trying WIFOM.

If you are saying that the bussing theory is WIFOM, then A) I'm not attached to that theory, B) If we never go through a single step of WIFOM, scum can play the town like a violin, and C) I've already said that SpyreX and SB are (more or less) mutually exclusive in their scummyness.

if you truly believed that [anything could have happened with regards to SpyreX] they you'd have no reason to lean one way or the other.

Except that, if I believed that, then I would also believe SpyreX was lying.

No. Killing a claimed miller is a pro-town play even if you are unsure about their alignment.

Well, yeah, but in my opinion, that's only true if there's really no one else who you have reason to believe is scummy. (This comes partially from my already-stated belief that a miller claim on its own is a null-tell.)

Also, do you think SB is scum, milkshake?

I admit I am leaning slightly toward that at the moment, but both what happens with SpyreX and what SB says when she finally posts something more complete will affect what I personally think about SB.

Also (please don't scream WIFOM), I think it's possible (just possible) especially with SB's convenient but vague "something happened to me," that they're in this together.

[milkshake]

....
Well, one thing: @SB - anything interesting happen to YOU last night?

Well, yes. Something interesting and rather odd happened to me last night. Why you ask?

Also, SpyreX was the one to ask Snow_Bunny about herself, and he's the one she actually answered. Hmmm!

[milkshake]

If we have any reason to believe Kmd's claim that he had two win conditions, which I think we may now that he has flipped truthfully, then we know that he had two win conditions 1) Lynch Sajin, or failing that 2) Lynch the SK. We know that Benmage is not Sajin, so if the note is true, then Benmage would be the SK.

You don't have this right. I think that according to KMD, The Rodent Tamer is the SK (turns out he is actually town), and Saijin is someone else entirely (turns out that, according to a note from The Scribe, it's actually Benmage not Saijin).

The only other possibility is they are both scum together lying about it going for an odd gambit they hatched together which I think is extraordinarily unlikely.

Well, if we follow the killing-millers-is-town logic, the hypothetical (unlikely) gambit would at least "confirm" SpyreX as town (possibly "sacrificing" Snow_Bunny, who flips scum, confirming SpyreX and also increasing KK's townyness since he advocated SB's lynch).

[milkshake]

if it werent for Milkshake also having role-based information that refutes SpyreX's claim.

SerialClergyman has this information, not me.

[milkshake]

I am. Until I see this theory disproven (and my role follows this pattern as well) then I'm going to assume it's true.

Well, I agree it's likely that many or most roles follow the -er rule (that's why I proposed it in the first place). So far, all town roles have been -er roles. (The Giver, The Hugger, The Sculptor, The Rodent Tamer vs. The Rats, The Scribe, and (alledgedly) The Alchemist). But it doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would necessarily be true 100% of the time.

[milkshake]

That said, Would the people voting spyrex explain if they think he is going to die tomorrow by the flavor? If you think he will die anyways, why would we waste a lynch here?

There was a brief mention of that, but no. I, at least, think that was little we know makes more sense if he's staying alive.

Withholding a piece of the puzzle is anti-town.

QFT... well, unless that piece is "I'm a doc now."

PZ: we have no decent proof of the er/other split (and sculptor is town)

-or is the same thing as -er, silly.

[milkshake]

"was little we know" = "what little we know"

VP:Following a note likely given by the scum isnt exactly the best idea. Why would KK know these things anyway?

Although, we don't know for absolute certain that the note actually came from The Scribe... (I agree it is likely though.)

[milkshake]

Just as a favor to me I'd love the voters on me to succinctly put WHY they are because I'm not seeing anything that even pretends to be a case.

Your claim. I think it is bad. I used to be certain... I'm less certain now. Post 1325 would have been OK with me except that is came way after the fact.

That's assuming that SB is town, an ever-dimming possibility.

An SB wagon would be informative at the least.

[milkshake]

If Spyrex gave her a GOOD tidbit, a good tidbit that she's afraid to claim, then why on Earth is she voting for Spyrex?

This, at least, is irrevocably true.

Still not sure about SpyreX.

(Maybe I'll vote for Snow_Bunny in post 1337 )

[milkshake]

Actually, looking back, SB didn't really ever imply that she got the power from SpyreX. Although it is true that most people probably wouldn't target a claimed miller if they knew they would be giving them a power.

[milkshake]

This post is 1337.

Yes, I have one-shot active ability

Hm. Mindlessly agreeing with the suggestion that your ability is one-shot perhaps?

Also... I agree with the name logic but it really isn't enough to base a whole lynch on.

Well, like I said. Snow_Bunny lynch/wagon should be informative at least... please tell us what your ability is? Not sure you're really in a position to withhold it...

[milkshake]

Looks like SB came up with an excuse just in case she's tracked..

Also, if she DID have a one-shot ability, she could claim it and let the town direct it, and the town would not have to worry about losing a good role, because it is only one shot... and the town definitely is not concerned about losing SB overall. So, by letting the town direct it she would be helping the town/somewhat confirming her townyness. However, by not claiming it, she is saving it for scum use, or, as you say, a track excuse.

...hm.

[milkshake]

You think

I'm

scum? Why?

[milkshake]

Now that's just silly. Anyway, I thought you and me were pals. I even targetted you with my (apparently mostly useless) ability. Did you notice anything?

what magical killing could I do in one night?

Most killing is done in one night... are you saying yours isn't?

[milkshake]

it's not alignment information and it's not 100% foolproof but it's definitely enough to make me suspicious of Spyrex

It does mean he was lying about his ability, though! (If you're telling the truth.)

[milkshake]

[quote]Because SB pretty much confirmed Spyrex's potion thing, and now SC is going against it. [quote]
I still don't think SB confirmed SpyreX's thing.

SB

said she thinks SpyreX and his claim are scummy. And if you DO think SB confirmed SpyreX's thing, why would that mean that we should lynch her? (Unless you think she got an ability, admitted it in order to confirm SpyreX, but then didn't tell us what the ability was... or?)

SC certainly is going against SpyreX's claim though.

[milkshake]

My ability says nothing SPECIFIC about being passive or active.

Yep.... sounds like he wasn't even thinking about that line.

Because it would have to specifically say something. Even if that something was "Other" or "No Type" or whatever there is.

[milkshake]

That means that Spy asking you if somethign odd happened last night was a pure coincidence and by some fluke that someone or some mechanic, as yet unclaimed, gave you that ability.

I actually don't think she's denying that SpyreX targetted her with something (gave her a black potion), but she is denying that that necessarily gave her her mysterious ability that she won't tell us about. Remember that SpyreX had the whole not-death thing going on, which might have been the (only?) outcome of his supposed potion.

[milkshake]

pick a target

You usually _target_ someone with an _active_ ability. -.-

[milkshake]

You stopped me from killing myself, eh?

Is this more of your jester-vigilante-cop antics? Unless your role talks about how you kill yourself because you're totally crazy, then no.

If you believe SpyreX targeted SB with anything, he's probably not scum.

I still doubt SpyreX's claim a little bit. It seems really weird that his role would turn out to be oddly inactive just as a (claimed) tracker targets him, and that his potion, although

meant

to kill Snow_Bunny (a pro-town action), would end up having no effect. However, I can also see how, in the right semi-coincidental circumstances, it could all be true. For example, maybe SB really does do bad things to people who target her. Also, importantly, his most recent posts have been convincing for me with regards to his claim...

As I previously mentioned, though, I really can't understand SB's play if she's town. Personally I wouldn't claim miller as scum, but according to people here, it is done fairly often. It would especially make sense if SB interacts with people who target her... although, it wouldn't make sense for her to half-kill those people (like what happened to SpyreX). Maybe SpyreX is secretly NK immune? Maybe he really will die tomorow (I doubt that)? Maybe SB doesn't do the same thing every time someone targets her?

I also agree wholeheartedly with the "witholding a piece of the puzzle is anti-town" thing. I'm also starting to like "SB and SpyreX's scumynesses are mutually exclusive." What I said previously about it being a prearranged scum thing seems unlikely to me now. So I suppose I should switch my vote to the other half of the Spy/SB duality, and

unvote, vote: Snow_Bunny

So, yeah. Let's all lynch Snow_Bunny and see what happens.

[milkshake]

That would also mean that KK was bussing SB. That doesn't seem unlikely to me.

[milkshake]

Milkshake, do you get a result, like success or failure for curing insane cops?

That was the first thing I asked CKD when I got my PM. He said no. However, presumably the cured cop (assuming that curing cops is part of what I do) would know that they were cured. (At the very least, if they wanted to they could know by investigating a confirmed person or investigating someone twice.)

I agree that it's possible everything is fine, the non-ER role and the lack of 'type' is genuine and he's town, but I'm not convinced. What I AM convinced of is SB's reasoning for thinking Spy is scum (and subsequent vote of someone else) is rubbish. More 1-shot ability claiming and SB votes imho.

QFT... My position precisely (put more succintly). I also think SB's behavior regarding her 1-shot ability is scummy. She also has the fact that she was (presumably) targetted by SpyreX, but not harmed working against her, although there are many possible explanations for that.

[milkshake]

Uh-oh, I think Vollkan is lying now...

Name: The Mod
Power Type: Active, Passive, Special, or...???
Alignment: With the Council, With the Converters, or….????
Flavor: Blah blah blah, I’m a dirty tramp
Power: Kick Ass
Win Condition: “You win when all who oppose The Council are eliminated.”, “You win when there is no way for the followers of the Council can win.”, or….???

There are 'physical' abilities, which concern material things (example provided was a weapon).
There are 'active' actions, which relate to powers.
And (which is different to the first bit of info I received, but then again the first info wasn't provided as an exclusive list) there is also an 'other' category for different abilities.

He's telling you stuff that he wouldn't tell us? There is both "special" and "other?"

I don't usually believe that scum make obvious mistakes. But this...?

[milkshake]

Yeah- I was just reading you in ISO, too, and looking back over your posts, I also see that you have been defending SpyreX alot... so you wouldn't really manufacture evidence to incriminate him, probably. But I didn't think that the mod would privately reveal information to people without also revealing it to everyone- I can see why he would help you out in the context of your role, though.

Milkshake, I think what Volkann is refering to is a variation between active and seemingly active that are called physical. You're just desperate to hit something here.

Annoying accusasion of desperation aside, does this mean that SpyreX's ability should be classified as physical?

[milkshake]

You disagree with my reasoning, DGB?

Yours, SC's, and SB's from the looks of it... but probably mostly SB?

[milkshake]

Maybe he could do both in one night...

[milkshake]

Would it be a terrible idea to consider talking about Rosso?

Rosso = annoying town double voter. Yes?

[milkshake]

A DGB wagon sounds good.

The only weird thing DGB has done (that I can tell) is his overwhelmingly vehement defense of SpyreX. People (myself included) seem to be leaning toward SpyreX being town now. They weren't then, though.

---

"I am an Alchemist" is bad. What, are you expecting "I am The Alchemist" or something?

Yes... that actually is what I was expecting. I actually got it too.

No, because Sculptor was non-Town and non -er.

Deathnote, The Sculptor, With the Council, obliterated

The Sculptor was town, and you should take up the -or vs. -er thing with the english language and the verb "sculpt" which is a nonconformist and takes -or not -er.

(Not that I believe the -xr trend will necessarily hold true 100% of the time, and not that we can make any great determinations based on it. But we've already talked about this.)

??? is generic "there are other things that can be in this slot" just like for alignment we've seen another wincon &c (with Kmd). Scum fail.

The post that you are taking exception to here was a bit quick. Vollkan's thing looked like a horrible lie when I read it... but I was incorrect (as several people were very quick to tell me)

Also compare this: with this:

There was a lot of time between those two 'this's. I'm not afraid to admit that as I looked again through all the evidence and things about SpyreX, I changed my mind. "Flip flopped."

The "flipflopping" that you are so concerned about with regards to SB, though, doesn't exist. My scum read on her is based on her interaction with SpyreX, her desire not to claim her one-shot ability, and the possibility that, despite being a claimed miller, she messed with SpyreX's night action on her.

maybe she was drawing people to target her which would affect them but-

No but. Yes, maybe she was. This is supported by what may have happened to SpyreX when he targetted her.

Says Vollkan is a liar when is obviously not the case.

Did you read the posts that came next...?

The logic is both BS and scummy.

It isn't, but your catching-up read-through of the thread has left you without a somewhat incomplete understanding of everything that is going on. I'm not trying to criticizing your reading comprehension or anything! I'm glad you're cought up, but it seems that your vote on me is largely because I've had nothing to do this weekend, so I've been active over the past few days (and, as you know, I'm not an established player and I'm bound to have to think through things instead of just posting "everyone lynch blank" as many people do). So... yes I'm what catches your eye when you read over the beginning of Day 2, but it would be more helpful if you could weigh in on the night actions, other people, and such.

---

No. You don't get to "disagree".

Remember what you're arguing about, though. "Flavortunneling" is a pretty subjective concept... I think he does get to disagree, I think that because I also disagree.... It's really not "tunneling," it's just what he's posting about.

However:

This thing makes absolutely no sense.

I do agree that what you quote here doesn't make any sense.

And:

(seriously, I've already shown why the "-xr theory" is a load of BS. Stop pushing it)

The idea is sound, but I agree that it's no reason at all to vote someone.

[milkshake]

I am not ready to buy milkshake's statement that he is not the hugest fan of flavor arguments - or, I'm not willing to buy both that statement and the premise that he's Town too easily.

By flavor arguments, I mean arguements about the actual flavor the mod posts, like in a role PM. I'm all about role interaction arguments and the like. I'm only talking about what-would-the-mod-write discussions... in other words, I don't think determining which is manufactured fake vs. reiteraed real flavor is a good way to play the game.

I know that that's only good play, nothing new. The reason I was talking about it is because I was worried I/we were bordering on the "bad play" side of flavor vs. role-based arguments.

[milkshake]

Now, on the -er front I THINK I have a theory that is partially confirmable AND makes sense considering my position and what we've seen. However, I want SOME opinions before I detail it because a.) it would involve some PR directing and b.) it -may- give useful information to the scum.

Well, just POSTING your theory can't involve PR directing and giving useful information to the scum. Admit it, what you're really worried about is c) people eating it to pieces and angrily spitting the remains at you.

(I'm not criticizing- I would be afraid too- much more so!)

[milkshake]

I think SB got a vig kill, not an investigation. She's setting up the ground work to use it on me.

That's just what my spidey sense is telling me. You can take it or leave it.

Heh, it could very well be.

One thing is certain: A cop investigation is an easy thing to fake. A vig kill is not!

[milkshake]

Thinking of using your magic scum-finder on DGB?

[milkshake]

It does seem likely.

And there's an easy way to find out.

[milkshake]

I like this plan, except for the part where she's roleblocked (if actually town).

And (although this goes without saying), if she's scum she can just innocent report an innocent person.

[milkshake]

but that's not a bad thing milkshake.

So we lynch her tomorow no matter what. Then if she flips town we have a confirmed innocent, but if she flips scum we have nothing. If she's town she could also concievably have investigated a guilty person. If we lynch her now, if she flips town we have nothing, and if she flips scum we have nothing (except a scum lynch, just like if we lynch her tomorow).

Right, so we're

possibly

getting a confirmed cop investigation out of the deal. I guess if she's town she'll probably die or get roleblocked in the night though. So if she's scum she might claim she got roleblocked... well it still wouldn't be any different from lynching her today.

So basically, delaying lynch Snow_Bunny would mean we would have to lynch someone today with less information rather than tomorow with more information, but it is concievable that if town Snow_Bunny survives the night investigation in tact, we'll get an investigation.

Ok, sorry to think out loud so noisily.

If

we actually follow through with this, I'm happy to wait until tomorow. However, here's my problem: I feel like tomorow we might have a lot of better information to make a good lynch from, whereas today I don't know who we would lynch.

[milkshake]

He thinks it's anthorax!

I'd like to hear more about the plan regarding SB if possible. We're letting her live? Just making sure before I unvote. ^^

[milkshake]

If I do unvote, that is... I really do think she won't survive the night as town, and obviously if she's scum we should lynch her now.

[milkshake]

Heh, I already said: I think if she's scum, we should lynch her now. And the reasons for her being scum haven't changed. But she's either scum who should die today or, if she's town, she's town who probably won't survive the night. So our plan for her towniness tomorow probably wouldn't work.

Besides, I don't buy benmage at all. So that's not where my vote would go if I unvoted!

[milkshake]

Very Important


If we're assuming that "The Plan" is what the scum tried to do yesterday, if there was one player, in addition to KK, who rode that wagon all day it was



Tubby

You'll also notice that the only time tubby got off the SB wagon was to jump on the KMD wagon towards the end.

I am about 87.6% sure that tubby is scum

I believe that tubby is an excellent compromise lynch for today.

unvote
Vote: Tubby

This is true (it's why I voted tubby at first)... but it is also already very widely known!

This also assumes that SB is scum (which, while we're giving percentages, I agree with 67.1%)

[milkshake]

w/e I'm getting more attention than I wanted from this so I'll just go ahead and claim now. I'm the flurry. My ability is to control the weather. Unless someone wants to come forward as having being effected by the snow all this appears to do is prove what I've done in the night (look at the flurries present in the thread name and the morning scene). My options are snow, rain, cloudy, and sunny. Assuming no one comes forward as having been effected by the snow I'll follow the towns direction on which weather to use which night. And as I previously stated this is described as a passive ability.

This is the best ability ever. ^^

[milkshake]

Regardless here's my claim VT.

Take a long hard look at the people I focus'd and than those who chainsaw attacking me...should hopefully help.


gogogo string me up

I found this scummy on a purely subjective psychological level...

[milkshake]

Insults and not defending is normal tubby, in my not so well informed opinion. I might be willing to lynch tubby because of the KK link, though...

[milkshake]

but after last nite milkshake is most likely town

What, are you trying to take me down with you? ^^ I am town, don't you do any weird counter-productive suggestions to the contrary!

[milkshake]

Didn't someone once say with regards to KMD's role name copping: "What do you expect to get out of it? The Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Pro-Town Bunny?"

SB has a "cop" from me so its not even worth fighting over today.

Let's please actually follow through on SB tomorow though...

unvote

Is the benmage train mindless or serious? 0.o

[milkshake]

Wait, what kind of

passive

information could Plum have that would inform her of Tubby's role?

_Passive_ is the key word?

[milkshake]

Oh, now you make some sense. My info comes courtesy of an action taken by someone who was apparently not roleblocked. This info is shared between us. I personally did not attempt an active action last Night.

And everyone lived happily ever after, huh?

[milkshake]

Heh- oops, when I made my last post I was on the bottom of page 73 without realizing there was a 74!

Accurate role information =/= not scum

The Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Bunny is scum?

That's so evil it could be true. But the hide mechanic wouldn't make any sense on scum (scum self-sacrificing third-party finder!). It makes sense that he would target me, too, since I'm claimed (and not a miller claim!...)

[milkshake]

I once knew a Serial Clergyman
Who wanted to out all his countrymen.
But no one would claim;
It would ruin the game,
since there's opportunistical scummymen.

[milkshake]

^^

[milkshake]

I wonder what Ben's deal is.

Vote: Benmage

Let's do this thing.

[milkshake]

Is the benmage train mindless or serious? 0.o

I think it's a little bit of both.

Fair enough!

[milkshake]

The Causer of Weep.

Admit it, you're the Weeper.

[milkshake]

But you just asked not to long ago if there was EVEN A REASON FOR THIS WAGON. I.... my...

I got an answer... but thanks for making me reconsider again. Erg. Seriously, who is scum? ^^

About benmage... well, according to him he's playing the same as always. It seems like maybe people just don't like the way he plays instead of actually thinking he's very likely scum. But that brings me back to wondering who IS very likely scum... I thought tubby was pretty good but his claim was supported.

So what do people think about SocioPath...

---

What do people think about SP...

The Causer of Weep.
(I make people cry, although unlike in real life, it says I don't enjoy doing such. )

I sell fish. Trying to save money so my preggo wive can pop out the child closer to the Goma.

The Causer of "Weep?" Is that really supposed to be a role name?

Also, I note he used the one bit of flavor that everyone knows... oh, and "I sell fish."

I know that last time I doubted a claim people thought I was being quite irrational, but this, well, again, this claim seems kind of iffy to me.

---

it would obviously be the right move to lynch tubby since it nets confirmed scum either way

Yes, this

would

be great. But tubby-town seems fairly plausible and doesn't confirm any scum, since Plum says SocioPath isn't necessarily lying. Even tubby-scum wouldn't make Plum necassirly scum, because she only gauruntees tubby's rolename.

[milkshake]

How is tubby-town fairly plausible???????

Because I don't understand your problem with his claim. You must take exception to his claimed hide mechanic, but I don't see why you do- it doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone would make up. I

would

have a problem with his super-weird "flavor," but Plum confirmed that his role name is "The Happy Hoppy Fluffy Bunny" (or something), so... well, there you go. Neither the hide mechanic nor "The Happy Hoppy Fluffy Bunny" make alot of sense on scum...

[milkshake]

Yeah.

Well, still. You don't cause "Weep..." you cause "Weep

ing

."

---

-SB claims miller.
-I soft-claim curer in response to Kise's jester-vigilante-cop antics.
-The Hugger and the Sculptor dead before they could contribute anything.
-kmd, The Rats, third party, lynched. Claims he wanted The Rat Tamer and/or Saijin dead.
-The Rat Tamer dies.
-KK, The Scribe, Scum, also dies. He (?) alledgedly writes a note saying that kmd wants to lynch benmage. (Unfortunately I don't think this reflects at all on benmage.)
-SpyreX is brought up but not explained in a modpost- something vaguely bad happened to him. Claims he non-actively gave SB a potion.
-SC, The Toucher, says SpyreX must be lying, because he would have taken any active ability. Oops, it isn't actually active.
-SB resists at first, but eventually says she recieved one-shot cop.
-tubby claims Bunny-Hider, hiding behind me (presumably because of my claim).
-Plum confirms tubby is a Bunny.
-SocioPath says Plum must be lying, he would have blocked her ability. Oops, not

that

ability.

Writing that out didn't help me a whole lot. Did I forget anything? I do note one thing. There was a note saying kmd wanted benmage dead, and now benmage is close-ish to being lynched. (Also kmd's other guy, The Rat Tamer, is dead.)

[milkshake]

By the way...

I'd eat a million hats if due to rolename there was anything that was useful for town. I'm pretty sold on there not being "Happy Bunny Good Town Fisherman(er)"

SpyreX should get started on those hats, maybe.

Plum-tubby scumteam?

Tubby and the power of 30-page-prior suggestion? ^^ Plum did intentionally remain a bit distant from tubby, and did conveniently have passive information when she discovered she was role-blocked. But would scum really try something like that? (Honest question... would they?)

I'm so disappointed. Benmage is town.

Do you have a particular reason to think Benmage is town, or just a read?

[milkshake]

I think DrippingGoofball and VP Baltar are scum. ^^

[milkshake]

Why.

Because they're trying so hard.

But why are you "milkshake" voting me?

Didn't know who else to vote.

[milkshake]

Can you clarify this? Looks like you're saying regardless of the fact KK picked Benmage of all players, KK's note says little about his relation/alignment with Ben.

Yes...... unless

you

know whether it means they were scumbuddies or not?

eh, the note is nothing more than WIFOM until we get some confirmation on it. If another player receives one tonight or something, then we will know it wasn't from KK and we can take it more seriously.

Right.

[milkshake]

Ok, I appreciate the lynch-lust, and it clearly has done its job... so, yeah, woohoo... but I think that lynching Kaleidoscope without a claim is dumb. (I'm really only stating the obvious here, right? "Oh btw I'm post-restricted auto-confirmed-after-night-2 NK-immune cop." "Oh, lynch anyway.") I think we shouldn't necessarily listen to him, and I think lynching him

with

a claim is totally fine. But lynching him without a claim doesn't make alot of sense to me...?

Question: Can K-Scope even post?

(Plus... if we're random-lynching, we could learn more by lynching someone involved in the tubby/(me)/plum/sociopath thing, although personally I only really doubt the sociopath part of it.)

[milkshake]

No. I'm not lying, and, as everyone sane has said, it's unlikely that I could be. Plus I do know someone who can confirm me. My info makes Tubby a less-than-optimal lynch, Town-Tubby implies Town-Milkshake (though if we lynch you and you flip scum it would be useful info, but I doubt that's what you implied and I also think you're a suboptimal lynch). Sociopath almost certainly has RB powers. I could stand his lynch at a stretch but it's really on nothing - he's not involved to that degree because he in no way could have affected me receiving info and I have someone who can prove that. Not a Town-proof but not a case on scum so yeah.

If Scope is scum I'm looking at you . . . I've been scum cleared by a Weak Doc.

Ok... very confused here. I never said you were lying... not sure if you think that I did or not. All I'm saying is that lynching anyone involved in the you/socio/tubby interaction thing would yeild more information than lynching K-scope. I think the interaction is fairly townie, so I'm basically willing to let it sit as "confirmed," but my mention of the matter was just an example to demonstrate that we

could

get real info out of a lynch, and this lynch might gain us absolutely nothing if we do it wrong...

The last part of this is what confused me the most, though. Unless I missed something big, I don't have any relation to K-scope...

I support KScope telling us all his flavor, though, if he's around; it'd be a nice bonus. I was thinking about KK being 'The Scribe' and scum - remember the note SB said in flavor 'Millerized' her when she passed it on? With that info I might have deduced The Scribe = more likely to be scum had KK been the one Rolename-copped (and had he survived the Night). Basically, flavor could be useful.

Great... I agree. This is part of what would help us actually gain something from the lynch... a lynch which both of us think could be good but neither of us want to be premature...

[milkshake]

Oh... right well I'm not "stalling the wagon." I might very well hammer after kscope's claim.

The only issue here seems to be that I'm not 100 percent convinced with the tubby thing. Again it is just an example of where a lynch could produce info. You don't need to feel threatened. Not right now anyway!

Regarding a long wait being bad... well, we have a mod for that don't we? I'm on a phone but it seems like it has already been a while since kscope's last post!

[milkshake]

Dead townies everywhere...

Those hammers were stupid if not scummy without a claim in my not-so-humble opinion. -.- (Not sure if I'm allowed to say "I told you so." )

This game sure took off on day 3. I've got some reading to do!

[milkshake]

Milkshake, is your ability targetting or reaction

Definitely targetting. I targetted Kise so far...

[milkshake]

The reason I ask these questions is because I have fairly strong reasons to believe Milk is responsible for hanging people.

Don't know where you got this from. Vollkan is the only one who has been strangled... personally I would guess that he was killed by the same party as Populartajo. Maybe that's the ScumKill (tm).

By the way, definitely

vote: Snow_Bunny

like we all said we would.

[milkshake]

Wow, dramonic (et al.) is going through alot of crazy shenanigans!

I have already claimed... I can claim even more fully, if you want. See the middle of this post. I breadcrumbed my role-name at the game start, and my power is a nice, simple active ability that cures people of total insanity.

I am not informed of the results of my ability (I asked, as I mentioned before), and so I can't be sure whether or not dramonic really did jailkeep me, but plum says she was informed of her jailkeeping, and since I wasn't, I instantly know they're both lying! (Or something very, very strange and extremely unlikely is going on!)

I'm surprised the scum are going through this- it looks like at least plum and dramonic are involved (and, further, plum incriminates tubby), and even if they get me lynched, when I flip it costs them at least two of their number? Wow... that's hard to believe.

There is nothing that didn't come directly from dramonic to link me to deaths caused by strangulation. This all seems surprisingly absurd to me!

So, as promised... first nine sentances I wrote...

U

gh, there's alot of player overlap between this game and Plum's!

I

nteresting.

F

or my part, I'll Vote: Kublai Khan for not being quite as brutal as his grandaddy

D

on't wagon.

B

ecause this is super handy/interesting.

M

y guess is that you didn't get to choose your target

N

o way you investigated me at random.

F

ortunately for you, I can cure you of your insanity

S

ound like a plan?

UIF DBMNFS
THE CALMER

(Back one letter alphabetically)

The Calmer, I'm the leader of the city-watch-type thing. When the Giver is killed, the Dark Goma Influencer tells me to close the city entrance gate, and I'm hopeful we can stop whoever killed him.

My power (instrumental to my high rank and success in the city watch) is the de-insanifier (calming) thing that I have often discussed.

It

would

be possible that dramonic was just very misguided, but not with the plum support

I can confirm that I was blocked, as can my as-yet-unrevealed-friend.

since I can

not

confirm that I was blocked. So, I'll

unvote, vote: dramonic

and you can either lynch me (to be sure) and

then

get on to lynching this conpiracy or get a head start today, and become sure based on dramonic's flip. The latter is slightly better but either works.

[milkshake]

Tubby you said you were a hider and definitely insinuated that if you hide behind not town you die.

If Milk comes up NOT TOWN, you die.

I am confused.

dramonic, Plum, AND tubby. Win!

[milkshake]

Yeah no, because my ability actually gets an investigation-type result. It is standard to get a "no result/you were blocked" response when a normal response would be "Player X is the XXXX".

Whhaaaat...? Did you not understand that what I am saying or did you intentionally make an unrelated response? I don't get a result. I wasn't talking about any results. I'm talking about dramonic claiming to jailkeep you, you claiming to be notified, dramonic claiming to jailkeep me, and me not getting notified.

Did you receive any kind of PM from the mod saying that you were jailed and thus your action didn't work? Or, well, anything that day?

Did you get anything about calming kise day 2?

I've said the answer to both of these questions already with extremely clarity. I did not get any notification about being jailed. I do not get any notification about the use of my power.

---

I'm just waiting until some town players/people with brains arrive and make a decision about this:

you can either lynch me (to be sure) and then get on to lynching this conpiracy or get a head start today, and become sure based on dramonic's flip. The latter is slightly better but either works.

That's really all there is to this!

[milkshake]

Yeah no, because my ability actually gets an investigation-type result. It is standard to get a "no result/you were blocked" response when a normal response would be "Player X is the XXXX".

Oh, so you're saying that the only reason you were informed of your jailkeeping is because your ability failed. (Weak reason, since my ability doesn't get a response I'm not sure why yours would). Also, if that's the only way in which you were informed, what about your supposed jailkeep buddy or whatever that was about?

Furthermore, are you really buying the ridiculous reasoning that I was, according to dramonic, jailkept on the one night out of two that someone was not killed via strangulation (which was probably completely unrelated to who killed them) so I must be a serial killer? That's just silly!

[milkshake]

the conspiracy theory is bad Milk, I mean, look at your wagon, unless you think MORE than the complete converter team are on your ass you're just flailing.

Uh... they followed you based on huge-failure information about jailkeeping. So of course I think more than the complete converter team is on me, and some coverters are probably off me... but now I have shown what is going on (and it will be confirmed once once of us is lynched) so...?

Likewise, if you had targetted Kise like you said you did, he'd be sane by now.

Kise isn't even a cop so why are you talking about this?

You're scum who've been caught.

Too bad you weren't smart enough to realize that your whole plan would backfire once I was dead... :/ But it's good for town!

[milkshake]

when someone has claimed insanity and you don't believe them

Did I miss something?

I dont recall saying you're a serial killer.

...?

I have fairly strong reasons to believe Milk is responsible for hanging people.

You think I'm a super-special-bonus scum serial killer?

[milkshake]

If the argument is that milk was blocked d1 and not d2 and there was a kill on d2, that makes him much more likely to be an sk, yes?

[milkshake]

The only thing I can think of that would make everyone all happy-happy town is
A)Plum only knew she was role-blocked because of a confirmation on her ability (makes sense if she is a namecop).
B)Otherwise, jailkept people are not notified. (Plum says the exact opposite in her last post, unless I "misunderstood" again...)
C)Tubby voted me because he can hide behind serial killers and is 100% positive I'm a Serial Killer (that's just silly).
D)You, also, truely believe that CoD determines exactly who kills the person, and you think that I must hang people because you jailkept me on night one and no one was hung on night one.

Even if you do say all that, it would be very after-the-fact...

MY ABILITY GETS A RESPONSE BECAUSE THE MOD FREAKING TELLS US THE RESULT OF THE INVESTIGATION EVERY NIGHT! THAT'S WHY IT GETS A RESULT!

Yeah sorry you don't have to scream it I got that now...

Stop flailing and go peacefully unless you can be funny at it like Kmd, plz.

Why the over-and-over use of the word "flailing...?" I only have seven votes on me. Also, if I do get lynched, I really wonder what the actual town is going to do about me being The Calmer. They will understand then, right? So, then... what you the scum going to do about having been found out...? 0.o

My partner can confirm that and confirm that we received the info about the block in the same way we received the result on Tubby - simultaneously, straight from the mouth of the Mod.

But see... I never got anything like that. So if you're going to stick to that we still have a conflict.

[milkshake]

My ability is automatic, NOT manual, meaning I don't have to PM the mod every phase to submit an action. I do not have any sanity variations to my role name, and I am not psycho in any way. Don't bother "saning" me because it's not needed.

Thanks for the info... do

you

know who dramonic is talking about here?

when someone has claimed insanity and you don't believe them

[milkshake]

If you'd gotten it you wouldn't see any supposed conflict because there is none.

If I'd gotten it, yes. But I didn't.

C) You were untargetable Night 1 - that is, any actions on you didn't go through. Tubby, I presume, does not get confirmation on whether he got blocked or not; he just wakes up alive or doesn't (and if he's alive and his action was successful - which he can't know by himself - it means that he must have hidden behind Town/Non-Converter [need clarification here]). But because you were untargetable his action did not go through and thus your alignment did not have any bearing on him surviving Night 1 because he didn't actually successfully hide behind you. Thus he didn't clear you. So.

That's quite the coincidental interaction. Even if I was untargetable, does that change my alignment? Does tubby survive if he doesn't hide behind anyone? Does tubby's ability actually need to actively target someone in order to check their alignment?

I said specifically that I did not execute the ability Night 1 and so a roleblock/jailkeeping could not affect whether or not my partner and I received a result, so we got no notice. But we always get a notice about our actual action: either an investigation result of a "targeter got blocked". I wasn't notified because it didn't affect the action results Night 1 because my partner, not I, executed the RB.

Wait, so you have like a mason partner who is a roleblocker and, what, you choose between the two of you which one of your abilities you'll use? Since you had passive abilities that confirmed tubby as "town," wouldn't that make him another mason partner? Doesn't that sound an aweful lot like a scum team, not a mason partnership?

Wouldn't you have

had

to have a result night one in order to confirm that tubby was the super-happy-hoppy-bunny?

[milkshake]

I did not execute the ability Night 1 and so a roleblock/jailkeeping could not affect whether or not my partner and I received a result, so we got no notice. But we always get a notice about our actual action: either an investigation result of a "targeter got blocked". I wasn't notified because it didn't affect the action results Night 1 because my partner, not I, executed the RB.

Just explain to me what you're talking about here. Who is executing a roleblock and what exactly was the result of all your various night actions that appear to come from no where, which I must have missed your original explanation of.

And, most importantly, what on earth does it have to do with a jailkeeping supposedly working on you when it didn't work on me?

[milkshake]

My bad, last line should read I wasn't notified because it didn't affect the action results Night 1 because my partner, not I, executed the action which could be RB'd (and it wasn't). Sorry about the miswording. We did have a result Night 1 because my partner investigated successfully. Oh, Spy, I see you asked the same question; answered here.

I had a result Night 1. The Rolecopping ability is shared; one of us can use it per Night. Night 1 my partner used it; the Roleblock on me did nothing. The result (including a 'blocked' result) is automatically shared straight from the Mod;'s mouth with both of us.

SocioPath Roleblocks Plum ---> No effect because Plum doesn't attempt an active action
Plum Investigates (someone) ---> No result because of dramonic's Jail, Mod tells us that

Thanks for clearing that up (really) but wow that is so handy for you and so mostly invented after it was made apparent that you needed it.

As I think someone already mentioned, there should definitely also be your partner's claim and confirmation, because then if you're scum, it digs you in even deeper, but if you're town there's no big disadvantage.

[milkshake]

It actually wasn't made up at all, if you've been reading the last heap of pages.

It wasn't made up

now

, duh, but it wasn't exactly thoroughly explained up-front either.

Oh my partner, if/when you're around use your judgment and claim who you are and that you can verify all my info if you think it best. I doubt it'll be necessary because it's only the lying Milk officially calling for it now and I'd rather not do thus on the demand of an almost-certain scumbag. If we have more official calls for this from people we've discussed that we trust more, I'd say go ahead. If not, it's probably in the best interest of the Town not to do so.

If you actually follow through on this I'll be happy.

an almost-certain scumbag

So you really still think I'm scum?

So what we have right now, and what this boils down to after all the role-squirming, is this:

Dramonic roleblocked me on night one.
There was no death by strangulation on night one and there was one on night two.
Therefore, I must be scum who strangles people.

Forgive me, but that's either stupid or scummy. (And I don't like assuming people are stupid.) Remember, another mislynch (after that (again, forgive my severity) frankly idiotic KScope lynch) and all the night and day town deaths must be coming very close to an easy scum win. Smart scum would not at all be above doing what dramonic is apparently doing now.

[milkshake]

So…the only case on milkshake is the RB and the lack of strangulation on N1…

Yes... weird isn't it.

I vote that we lynch tubby today, and let the forces of nature right the wrongs of milkshake.

I have done nothing wrong!

[dramonic] could easily be a scum jailkeeper.

Yes, that's what I was thinking too... It would explain why he was putting out a failure-of-a-kill-analysis without requiring an admittedly unlikely "scumspiricy" which I thought was mandated because Plum said she was notified of her jailkeeping. Unfortunately this does mean nothing new is revealed about tubby or Plum, which I was all happy about before.

By the way, Plum called me sugar-beverage. Does that mean I get to call her sugar-fruit? <3

[milkshake]

I think I already made a big post in response to the one you quoted Plum, but anyway I think you might be confused about the difference between able-to-be-picked-on/having-made-mistakes and playing-for-the-scum. :O (Also, you go bonkers about the Vollkan thing, but you must have missed my posts after that?)

As to top three people who I think are Converters...
1) Snow_Bunny (Remember her?

unvote, vote:snow bunny

)
2) dramonic (although maybe I can buy that scum wouldn't do what he did just to lynch a townie)
3) VP Baltar ( )

[milkshake]

Milk claims to be psychiatrist or Sane Modifier (I need clarification).

I can't exactly offer it, all I know is that I remove the condition of being completely insane.

"Causer of Weep"!

Yeah, as I mentioned quite a while back I find this ridiculous as well.

who claimed that rolestealer thingy?

SerialClergyman did!

[milkshake]

I targeted Snowbunny and Benmage as claimed.

Why haven't we heard from Benmage about this?

I don't think Saijin is scum- these past few pages have left me wondering

alot

about Benmage though.

Also, I'm still wondering if we've adressed Snow_Bunny and her not-much-of-an-investigation directly enough or if she's more just been forgotten. I'm aware Saijin-town confirms (sort of/ish?) Snow_Bunny but with there still being nine votes on him and all...

[milkshake]

Yes, of course I've read the last few pages. With all that was going on I must have missed benmage's reaction to Sailin's claim to have targetted him with an ability that may have given him something like a one-shop cop ability.

I good mafia player. -.-

[milkshake]

Its posts like these that really baffle me at the quality of some players here...

People sure aren't freindly here are they.

[milkshake]

Your ability is enormously vague. You don't know exactly how it works...neither do we...although since we accept SpryeX maybe this is a norm. Maybe you didnt do anything and SB got the ability from someone else. Maybe you were roleblocked, maybe i was jailed bused etc theres so many possibilities its why I knew all your questions were pointless. And the softclaim soon to claim vague claim was going to be worthless.

No i did not get an ability. For what its worth I didn't do anything last night.

Conclusion: Still for Sajins lynch.

(SpyreX targetted DGB he says so maybe he actually did give Snow_Bunny an ability. Of course she pretty much wasted it? I think Snow_Bunny failing to mention anything that might pertain to Saijin is scummyish. I think benmage mentioning not having anything pertain to Saijin is null/moot. Well, that or the other explanations are that Saijin is scum with a well-thought-out claim.)

Milkshake, what are your opinions of Spyrex and dramonic?

Opinion on SpyreX hasn't changed in a while- I think he's probably town, his claim fits in fine as far as I can see. dramonic I think might be a scum roleblocker of sorts maybe.

[milkshake]

You're a strangler, why would they want to be?

First, I've already talked about how silly your idea that I'm "The Strangler" is.

Second, this has nothing to do with this game but I find it totally ridiculous that so many people on this website can't seem to play mafia without acting like jerks... I have alot more to say about the matter but obviously this isn't the place!! Suffice to say: Grrrrr. ><

[milkshake]

Erm, you do know I'm joking about you not deserving to be nice to?y

A) It's hard to tell sometimes on a forum (other times is isn't but, yeah...).
B) Really it has nothing to do with this game. People here are pretty awesome. ^^ It's just something that's been bothering me. Among other things, "scum" is not an insult but sometimes I think people take it as one. I should let off some steam on the non-game boards but I haven't posted there at all yet which makes me hesitant to start!

Vaya confirmed later I believe. They also claimed they BOTH receive the result.

Not sure if this is relevant, but by the way I do get Plum's hesitance to out her partner, but even with both of them in the open I don't think any scum are going to waste a roleblocking with only a 50% chance of hitting anything.

[milkshake]

Ok, regarding Sajin, there's something I don't understand from his claim about targeting me and my now-gone ability. Why didn't he say anything when I claimed that and Spyrex claimed that he gave me a potion?

If this is part of what you don't understand: Saijin had/has (according to his claim) no way of knowing if his ability gave a one-shop cop, anything of the sort, or anything completely different. So I'm guessing he didn't have a problem with you are SpyreX's interaction. Also (unlike you, me, and a surprising number of people) he hadn't claimed and probably was hoping to keep it that way.

[milkshake]

"you are SpyreX's interaction"
"your

and

SpyreX's interaction"
Must. learn. to. type!

[milkshake]

Consider me a boy and touching him a yard. It's like he's bringing me to it.

This is one rare case in which I can approve of milkshake song antics. ^^ Feel free to take my ability it's not very powerful but it's active so it should work fine.

[milkshake]

I'm willing to hop on Saijin if someone tells me why we aren't worrying about Snow_Bunny? (Or did I miss the part where we worried abotu Snow_Bunny.)

[milkshake]

SpyreX, fair notice: I'm keeping track of how many hats you're going to have to eat at the end of this game.

But actually,

Nothing like fighting a semantic battle with snapback comments when its much easier and much more productive to simply illustrate where they are actively and purposefully being wrong (if you think the attack is scummy) or simply say "nah, this is how it went down."

This I <3...

Am I doing something wrong if I'm only just now, after Saijin's claim, starting to think that Saijin is scum?

Unvote, Vote: Saijin

I'd still like to know why "the general population" thinks Snow_Bunny isn't scum though.

[milkshake]

In the interest of not allowing the scum roleblocker to live another day, I'll go ahead and claim. I'm a cop with a guilty on dramonic. Now string him up plz.

Hello!

unvote, vote: dramonic

=======[]

[milkshake]

You know milk, in case you haven't figured it out yourself, he's probably not insane given that he got an innocent on a confirmed townie and a guilty on a claimed converter. Using your claimed power on him is probably a waste.

Lawl, thanks... yes, I got that. For sure, I know who I will use my ability on anyway!

[milkshake]

Oh... great...

Serialclergyman, The Toucher, With the Council, Strangled Night 3

If you live through this, what kind of emotional scares will you have?

It's like he's speaking right to me! Except for I would probably have scars not scares.

Day 4 scene edited because I fail english

[milkshake]

So although I totally understand why people would vote me after seeing SerialClergyman strangled, let me point out the obvious by saying that if there is a "The Strangler," he would almost certainly go for SerialClergyman at this point. Even if it represents the scum kill there's a good chance they'd go for him! And one of those two is almost certainly the case.

Do those voting tubby disbelieve Plum's claimed tubby support? Not that I think tubby is a terrible person to vote but he was namecopped, and, well, you remember all that stuff.

Day 4 scene edited because I fail english

You fails english? That unpossible!

[milkshake]

? Tubby would have hid behind a non-town role if milk is SK, no?

They say the bubble stopped tubby from hiding and made him auto-survive.

[milkshake]

Yeah maybe the zombified people can't vote?

I only count nine claims but I'm probably missing one.

[milkshake]

LlamaFluff. I'm hoping you secretly also have tracking capability? ^^ (Or maybe you namecopped me, that would prove I'm not The Strangler.)

[milkshake]

You're still alive, Snow_Bunny!

Bm doesn't want a massclaim.

SpyreX can't vote.

Grass is green.

[milkshake]

What the hell do you mean Spyrex can't vote?

Woops, I said the exact opposite of what I meant to say. Love it when that happens. SpyreX can vote, obviously, as we had just discovered.

---

I think tubby's claim is bogus-ish and I'll vote for him or SB. Or maybe SP too?

If we're going to massclaim let's do it now. Maybe then we can start unraveling things.

[milkshake]

I was about to place the L-1 but Stark said he would dazzle us with somethingerother when we reached L-2.

Speaking of stark:

1.) tubby216- Hider Happy rabbit man (sure)
2.) Vaya - Namecop with Plum
3.) Battle Mage -
6.) VP Baltar -
7.) SpyreX - Alchemist potion person
9.) milkshake - Sanity...curing... thing..
10.) Snow_Bunny - Beggar Miller
12.) Benmage
13.) SocioPath
16.) Sajin - The Unknown
17.) LlamaFluff
18.) chamber- Weatherman
20.) Plum- Namecop with Vaya
21.) Kise- Sanity...curing... thing..
23.) Elmo- Doublevoter
24.) stark

You missed SP being the "Causer of Weep," and I think kise doesn't really have a claim except for some vague foreshadowing.

[milkshake]

Ohhi, million posts before mine got in. If he's a cult leader, why don't we want to lynch him?

[milkshake]

No drugs here. You plan on waiting for everyone in the game to answer this before you claim?

That would be a bit impractical wouldn't it. My mental status improvement method involves no drugs, medicinal or otherwise.

[milkshake]

Plum, you say, is not cult. So tubby is The Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Brainwashing Cult Bunny... maybe it's a false title a la scum godfather investigation innosence... or maybe it's real. Odd. Anyway:

Someone unvote, I don't want him quicklynched yet.

Do you want him lynched now? (Honestly I don't just because it would be so boring to wait through yet another four day night! )

[milkshake]

I think that's more "don't get" than "done got."

[milkshake]

Maybe converters convert people to their cause.

[milkshake]

Slightly Scum: Tubby, BM
Fairly Scum: Bm, Kise

I think these are a scummy bunch.

[milkshake]

I'm just waiting to vote tubby until we're done with today's "festivities."

[milkshake]

just do a test vote on a nonissue person.

Not exactly a non-issue but

vote: Snow_Bunny

.

[milkshake]

unvote, vote: tubby216

[milkshake]

also, you claim that you investigation last nite was on PZ,
PZ claimed cop who caught scum, ie, dram

why would you even target PZ??

I thought Stark investigated PZ because, since PZ claimed cop, cult would try to recruit PZ, and so if Stark's thing resolved after the recruitment (which I don't know if it does or not), PZ could very well turn up as cult...

[milkshake]

I'm not sure about the above though.

PS I don't think Kise is aligned with the council.

[milkshake]

@BM, you can't just say my reasoned explanation is illogical without explaining why.

@VP Baltar, partially because of a subjective scum read and also because he didn't claim flavor, didn't claim a role that fits particularly well with this game (not terribly, just not particularly well), and his claimed role handy-dandily doesn't take effect until he's already dead and we would already know whether he's scum or not anyway.

[milkshake]

Yes, that's an explanation for why there isn't a cult not an explanation for why Stark wouldn't target PZ...

i guess its misleading to say the main logical flaw is you defending his cult-copping of PZ. The real logical failure, is assuming he is cult-cop in the first place.

It isn't just misleading, it's wrong. But it's what you originally said! You thought you could get away with it, is why you said it. ^^

[milkshake]

Didn't know you wanted flavor as well. I am an old fart -- the oldest person among both the city and within Council. Respect your elders, milk.

Well, it was specifically requested along with your claim.

Elder respecting aside, I think you had yet to make it up, is why you didn't post it. <3

[milkshake]

Disbelieve it/him if you like...but dont say it was a time thing...all scum have had a millennium to perfect their claims and dont need a reason to rush.

I didn't say it was a time thing. I said he just made it up now after his claim. Of course he had time before, this is a play-by-post game, we all have tons of time. But if he already had it for real, he would probably have posted it along with his claim, don't you think?

This is seriously all the flavor you have?

QFT, Kise is very lazy.

[milkshake]

I see what you're doing, milk.

And I you.

Benmage claim?

[milkshake]

Well, if no one has any insanity problems, then it really doesn't matter if I'm lynched now does it?

[milkshake]

So why was your role "created" if it has no purpose?

It wasn't, obviously. I'm sure there are some "utterly insane" targets I should be hitting. In fact a few days (real life days) ago I had the idea that I might be able to function as a psychologist sort of, and I've been thinking that either Saijin or benmage would be fantastic targets.

Who are you, by the way? You have any ideas?

[milkshake]

I'm afraid if you look back, you'll see i corrected myself within the post. Why so desperate to latch onto my chain of thought style posting?

First of all, I

quoted

the part of your

second

post where you corrected yourself. And your correction is logical, the first thing you said was not. Here is the first thing you said, it's what we were actually talking about:

Stark should answer this. But your explanation for him targetting PZ is illogical- about as illogical as having a cult in a game where everyone has a power role. xD lol

BM

You do not correct yourself within this post, and had I not pointed it out, you wouldn't have said anything, which is what I was talking about in my post. So while I agree with your correction, don't try to move it backwards in time.

Second... I've just been exchanging posts with both you and benmage and I have to say it is really annoying how you have very similar names, and you both make a bazillion posts in a row (which sometimes obfuscates your points), and neither of you have avatars. I'm not usually picky but I was extremely confused between the two of you for a little while. It was super annoying.

And way more importantly: Why aren't either of you claiming? Should we just get on with lynching tubby, and then proceed to the (in my opinion obvious) other lynches?

[milkshake]

Does your PM say specifically that you cure people who are insane?

Could it be that you cure people whose minds are altered?

1. Yes
2. No
Sorry

[milkshake]

Milkshake, are you supposed to be able to cure the serial killer/psychopath?

In fact a few days (real life days) ago I had the idea that I might be able to function as a psychologist sort of, and I've been thinking that either Saijin or benmage would be fantastic targets.

I was thinking maybe, yes.

[milkshake]

Who has yet to claim?

You.

[milkshake]

Yeah, it seems Elmo is our resident voting mechanic mechanic.

[milkshake]

See kise? That's basically what a claim paraphrasing a mod PM looks like! xD Now I admit it doesn't look like exactly the most townish role. At the moment though I'm tempted to believe it, but actually I might not (see below).

A claim from elmo would help matters. There is just one question I have, but it's kind of a big one I guess. Why on earth would benmage wait until AFTER we saw the .5 vote? He could have claimed

before

that and he would have been like 1000x more believable. Furthermore, he didn't jump straight at elmo when trying to figure out about the voting thing, he looked around at everybody for the discrepency. So, what's up with that?

I believe the only people left are elmo-ish and Battle Mage...?

[milkshake]

Yeah, there's no "other missing vote."

[milkshake]

We already know that elmo's vote is .5 instead of two, which accounts for both missing whole votes.

[milkshake]

I have a name, SpyreX, even an awesomely breacrumbed one.

Ugh, there's alot of player overlap between this game and Plum's!
Interesting.
For my part, I'll Vote: Kublai Khan for not being quite as brutal as his grandaddy
Don't wagon.
Because this is super handy/interesting.
My guess is that you didn't get to choose your target
No way you investigated me at random.
Fortunately for you, I can cure you of your insanity
Sound like a plan?

UIF DBMNFS
THE CALMER

For my fullest claim, see iso post 112.

Llamafluff, I believe, will claim happily when he finally posts.

I think we might want to consider bandwagoning BM until he claims.

[milkshake]

I thought that post was fine except for this part.

This vote might go away if it takes longer than that.

[milkshake]

I've worked hard to become part of the city brigade which guards the Giver.

I can confirm that something like city "brigade" is indeed the word the mod used in my PM as well.

[milkshake]

.... you feel that?

?

[milkshake]

I can confirm that something like city "brigade" is indeed the word the mod used in my PM as well.

What I mean by this is Plum is telling the truth because she is talking about the same brigade that I am the head of (which makes me feel special )

[milkshake]

I am the

Pulper

.

0.o

[milkshake]

I am the

Pulper

.

0.o

o.O

Do you mean

Pauper?

[milkshake]

@Milk: Eh? Pulper it's what my role name says, so if anything, ask the mod.

Oh sure, I'll just ask the mod whether your role name should be Pulper (one who pulps/reduces to pulp?) or Pauper (a poor person), I'm sure he'll be happy to answer that.

I propose that Vaya has a confusion in her head about the word "Pauper" (thinking it's Pulper... are you british, Snow_Bunny? ) and it has coincidentally destroyed her mafiascum fakeclaim!

[milkshake]

I think we should just lynch tubby or Battle Mage and forget about waiting for Battle Mage to claim.

[milkshake]

vote: tubby216

(Who knows? Maybe I can vote twice. )

[milkshake]

Lets not get too trigger happy until BM graces us with his presence.

Hey, I thought we had all agreed we were just going to lynch him.

[milkshake]

*yawn*

unvote, vote: Battle Mage

[milkshake]

unvote, vote: tubby

[milkshake]

I will join SpyreX for a hat barbeque if tubby flips "The Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Bunny." Everyone's invited.

[milkshake]

In light of Tubby's semi-expected semi-unexpected flip, my hat barbeque will not be held.

Elmo is a decent person to vote.

Stark should be telling us who he targetted tonight, and other things too hopefully please.

I'm hoping (against hope) something changed with Saijin tonight?

What do people think about Battle_Mage?

[milkshake]

I'm here too just bored waiting.

I don't disbelieve Stark's cult deal quite as much as you guys seem to.

[milkshake]

I was thinking benmage, but sure, I'll target Elmo pending anything else coming to light.

[milkshake]

Happy Thanksgiving folks. I'm reading this past page.

What's this about sametargetting?

The SP/BM thing is great because one or the other (or both) is scum (right?)

[milkshake]

Good game guys.