Newbie 818 (Game Over)

[Exalt]

/confirm

[Exalt]

We need to get this game going!

VOTE: Pablo

because I'm always crazy!

[Exalt]

VOTE: Exalt

Well hey, Exalt said that he's crazy. Crazies go first.

Why are you worried about the crazy players? Could it be that you are worried a "crazy" townie will decide to attack you and get scum lynched?

UNVOTE

VOTE: sraymonds

[Exalt]

EBWOP: forgot to bold

UNVOTE

VOTE: sraymonds

[Exalt]

Why are you putting a player on L-2 in RVS? Do you find this to be a good idea? Are you hoping 2 more players quicklynch him or something now?

[Exalt]

Unvote

FOS on Exalt. Why did you bring sraymonds to L-2?

I brought him to L-3, giving him 2 votes like the rest of the town has. sraymonds gave deep blue, aka YOU 3 votes, making you L-2. Big difference.

[Exalt]

Again, was I not supposed to do this? How do you define someone slipping up?

I changed my vote to Deep Blue because he said real men use capital letters, and I had the joke response that included the words "firm" and "erect".

I'll explain this I guess. Pablo could do the same, but oh well.

There are two scum in this setup and 7 townies. RVS is more of a phase to get things moving rather than a way to vote someone off. Lynching a player in RVS is never a good idea even if this isn't your intent. The more discussion the better for town.

When you place a player at L-2, it makes it very easy for two players to quicklynch that player. This may not be a good idea, but it can happen. Two scum not on that wagon could easily jump on the wagon and quicklynch that player before anyone has a chance to unvote. This leads to no discussion and a possible lynch on a townie without reason.

I won't get into the reasons why this is bad for scum to do it, but it is possible. It is also possible for two players to do it very quickly and then claim they do not know better like yourself.

[Exalt]

@Exalt: I don't think two scum would do a double lynch...seems like a dead give away to the town, no?

That's not the point. If sraymonds was scum for instance, and scum was already on the bandwagon, two townies could vote the player off too and it would cause all sorts of problems.

Being that this is a newbie game, you can't take anything for granted. I agree that it would be completely stupid for two scum to hammer a player on L-2 in RVS, but I've seen dumber things happen from TOWN players.

Either way, it is something that should be pointed out instead of ignored.

[Exalt]

Finishing up summer finals TOMORROW, so after that I am home free. I apologize for lurking, and yes I received a 48 hour prod.

I'll catch up and post asap. You won't see me lurking any longer after the week is over though, because at that point I have no more excuses

[Exalt]

In my opinion, all cases involved right now are MAJORLY weak. Completely useless in any sort of case on anyone. With this type of information, we mine as well draw straws to see who is getting lynched.

I'll try to reanalyze the 4 pages to see if there is anything worthwhile. I just don't see much content... and a deadline in 2 weeks with only 4 pages of content, and 99% of that being RVS? I think hohum is jumping the gun by far on that one, but whatever.

[Exalt]

adamrights

: At first I brushed off Pablo's pointing out his excessive use of emoticons. I don't like to ding people for their posting style or things that seem aspects of their personality, but in looking back, I find that the use of emoticons does in fact correspond to a joking manner that seems a bit forced. I am suspecting he may be adopting a jovial, joking manner as a cover.

What? You and pablo....


Are you guys seriously using EMOTICONS as a scum case? Are we that lacking of actual content?

Here look, I'm scum too!: :arrow:


Lets try to actual scum hunt. You and Pablo are trying to avoid doing it by using retarded cases. I know pablo for sure is smarter than this from our past game together, so I am looking at him with suspicion now for even going this route.

As for adamrights,

I guess if Pablo turns out scum then Katy should be the next investigation.

Are you suggesting lynching Pablo and setting up a possible future lynch of Katy? What is your thought process with this?

Just wondering, because you seem to have your top two suspects being the ones that voted for you. This is definitely in an OMGUS fashion, and I don't like it.

Though I guess this depends on the setup. I'm used to a different site where there is always 1 cop and 1 doctor.

This is slight rolefishing too. You also gain + scum points for this. Did you not read the first post that stated the 4 possible setups? Are you hoping for a claim or something? I don't get it.

[Exalt]

So who is your top suspect Exalt?

I'll let you know after adam answers my questions.

[Exalt]

Exalt

This is slight rolefishing too. You also gain + scum points for this. Did you not read the first post that stated the 4 possible setups? Are you hoping for a claim or something? I don't get it.

It reads as an honest mistake to me; I think he was clarifying his 75 with his 76 and it was only like 10 mins afterward, so it was a quick catch. Anywho, we should be done with this line of conversation.

Pablo, do me a favor. Stop answering questions directed toward adam please. It seems you are trying to defend him now by answering things FOR him instead of letting him do it himself. You aren't allowing him to slip up and say scummy things by doing this....

I'm not going to go so far as to say you are helping a partner out... but please stop helping unconfirmed players answer questions when it isn't IC related.

[Exalt]

-Jackinthebox, you say you find sraymond to be suspicious, yet you give him a defense in order to avoid suspicion in the future. Why? Pablo asked you why you did this, and you say that the defense won't help him. Then you suspect Pablo for coming to sraymond's aid, and voting for you because you didn't make sense. Is that just OMGUS? If not, why?

I just realized.... Pablo did this for adamrights.... the same exact thing that he voted Jackinthebox for (aka giving him a defense and "coaching").

@Pablo

: Do you not see what you just did here? Why did you vote Jackinthebox when you just did it yourself? HMMMMMMMM

-Exalt, you are also lurking a bit. Will you post more now that you finals are over?

They are over after today lol. Yes, I will. I won't start classes again til like August 22nd I think. This should give me a LOT more time. I am also in 4 other games, so I won't be tearing up the thread with 90% of the posts here, but I will not be lurking.

[Exalt]

Pomagranate...have you ever heard the 3rd vote theory?

No, I don't think so. But it obviously applies to the situation I created by giving Jackinthebox a third vote.

There is a common theory that the third voter on a bandwagon is Scum. Thoughts?

The theory is more like the 3rd and 4th votes are scum, not just the 3rd. The reason for that is that scum neither want to start wagons nor be at the end of them, so they will be in the middle somewhere.

Either way, this theory needs evidence to back it up or its useless. You need a case beside the theory and have the theory just be a side note in the case. Without that you are using null tells as evidence.

[Exalt]

Oh ya btw, I'm done with finals now!!!

So this means I should be lurking a lot less... at least in theory haha. I'll do my best to make this game more active now. Sorry about before, but it couldn't be helped.


also:

@MiteyMouse

: Can I ask why you even brought up that theory? I'd like to point something out here

Official Vote Count:

Jackinthebox777(2): Pablo Molinero, Pomegranate

sraymonds(2): Exalt, Jackinthebox777
adamrights(2): katy, Deep Blue
Pomegranet(1): sraymonds
Deep Blue(1): adamrights

Not Voting(1): MiteyMouse

Notice 3 people have TWO votes, and the rest have one, with you not voting?


Now I ask... why did you mention that theory? Tell me how it applies in this situation at all, and why is pomegranate the one you are directing it towards?

I have my own ideas why you mentioned it, but I want to hear it from you first.

[Exalt]

I stand corrected. Ignore me. I'll wait for pome's response too then

[Exalt]

@Pablo I didn't want to affect your answer, but I don't think we should lurker-lynch...I doubt scum have been lurking, and this might just be a guess -- but someone getting scum in a newbie game might get overly excited...hence even less likely to lurk; plus, it seems worthwhile to keep discussion going and see what happens in the conversations leading to a lynch.

I disagree with this. I have played quite a few newbie games.... and as far as I've seen, lurkers tend to be mafia. This obviously isn't the "rule" to go by at all times, but it does seem really extreme lurkers are mafia to me. They do not contribute to help scum hunt, they do not slip up because they don't contribute, and they just tend to stay out of the limelight that way.

I don't see anyone lurking really intensely at the moment though. I could be wrong, but I think I was the only lurker so far. I explained my reasoning due to finals though, and I won't be any longer.

I just think we shouldn't rule out lurkers COMPLETELY, because that might be a mistake. So far we have been lucky enough where everyone that was lurking have either been replaced or have stopped lurking entirely.

[Exalt]

-Exalt, who are you most suspicious of? You don't seem to have professed any suspicions yet.

I'm thinking adamrights is the most suspicious that I've found. He has been slightly lurking lately too since being attacked. There is not a whole hell of a lot of content to work with right now, but so far he is my top suspect.

You are my #2

Pablo is top 3 for me, only because of the differences he is playing in this game compared to the last one I was in with him. He also has defended adamrights which threw me off a bit. He claimed to not see it the same way, but its still there.

I have also been watching katy because something feels off there, but I don't have much to support it beyond a hunch.

Beyond that, I am neutral atm.

that being said:

UNVOTE

VOTE: Adamrights

because I want to hear what he has to say about everything, no time for lurking with a deadline in a week.

[Exalt]

Exalt

I don't think he answered my question on post 87. A few scum points there. You also made a few odd cases like role fishing accusations in post 86.

I didn't realize you ever asked me any questions to be honest. Lemme go reread and find out what you are talking about.

[Exalt]

So who is your top suspect Exalt?

What? Didn't I post that already? Whose not reading the thread now?

Go to the last post of the page 7.

[Exalt]

EBWOP:

Go to the last post of page 6.

[Exalt]

Something to look at more than the lurking flat out is active lurking. That is when people post to avoid prods but, not actually posting content. To me that is more of a Scum tell than lurking. That being said, if someone has been gone from the thread for 3 days or so without a post and they're not being replaced then it is a strategy and there are very few reasons for Town players to lurk that much.

QQ

The people enjoying to be Town vs Scum is a null tell to me. I think that some of us love playing Scum and others like Town and some like both.

Same with this.

Heh, while it is true that I have not stepped up and tried to grab this game by the horns (yet!) like I usually do when I'm town, I am in the last 3 days of my internship/CoOp at NASA, so I am dying to get my projects/papers finished. I really shouldn't be posting here right now!

We all have real life issues, so I understand. I have been posting much less than normal too. The real reason I am slightly suspicious of you is still how you 'defended' adamrights after you voted for jackinthebox for doing the same thing for sraymonds. It just strikes me as odd.

Unvote

The same goes with asking those to vote for myself. I wanted to see what people who had suspicions would do. It generated some discussion, which might prove useful later, and I tried to create potential for people to jump on a suspicion bandwagon...

I don't really agree with voting yourself. I've done it before too.. yet it is usually done as a "fuck this I give up" thing rather than a "see if scum jump on my wagon" thing. Either way... you are calling yourself suspicious at that point... I just don't understand your mindset.

I'm reading some of the past games of some people here...so I'll let you know what I think, but as of now I don't think Deep Blue is scum, not enough to keep a vote on at least.

What are your suspicions on the rest of the players? Also, I think it would be a helpful addition with your metagaming everyone. If you have time, can you please tell us your thoughts on players and their play styles?

[Exalt]

Exalt

I don't think he answered my question on post 87. A few scum points there.

You also made a few odd cases like role fishing accusations in post 86.

You know what rolefishing is right?

Assuming you do, then how is it odd for me to bring it up?

If he did it, he did it. To me it sounded like he was looking to see if someone would slip a possible role to him. Personally I think we need a lot more content than what is here right now. Only 7 pages to work with, and not a whole hell of a lot here. I'm hoping before deadline everything picks up.

@blue:

Why the "buttering up" so to speak with pablo? Also, what do you think of Katy, youdontknow, and miteymouse?

@youdontknow:

Why the lurking? What do you have to say about the game so far? What is your read on everyone?

[Exalt]

-MM, who are you most suspicious of? Also, what do you think of YDK's case against me?

@Miteymouse:

Can you answer this question please?

[Exalt]

This is a fun game, but you really have to like argument and have to be prepared to take a lot of flack without taking it personally.

I know at times if I've had a stresssful day and I sign on to find people calling me "scummy," "shady," "suspicous," etc. I sometimes have a hard time with it until I calm down a bit and remember the nature of the game.

Right now I've got a fairly null read on sraymonds. His sense of being overwhelmed rings true to me, but I believe that could be the case with him no matter which side he's on, as I've said previously.

Also I agree with what katy said about the stressful day thing. I've gone off on people in mafia when I've had a bad day and they are attacking me for something too (Pablo should know this haha). Sometimes its a good thing to make other people upset though, because no matter how good a person can play scum, emotions tend to betray you.


And I agree with the null tell on sraymonds...... BUT I don't like his lurking. He can contribute SOMEWHAT at least, even if he doesn't understand everything. He needs to stop doing it.

MOD:

How long til our deadline? Whats the date for it, because I forgot and you did say you were going to do a vote count today. Can you add the time frame til deadline to it please?

The game is run with fixed 3 week deadlines, which means deadline is 3 weeks from the beginning of D1. August 14th.

Still here, still writing papers (ugh), still lurking.

Same question, I'll give my answer later: How do people feel about a lurker-lynch NOW?

I'd like to avoid it if we could. If there is still no content close to deadline and I see a bandwagon on a player I think is town, I will go with a lurker lynch instead. I'm really hoping youdon'tknow and sraymonds post sometime soon though. The more content the better right now.

Some quick thoughts: I definitely think between Exalt, DB and Pom there is a scum.

I'm fine with that, but can you explain why I'm on your list at least? Is it because I voted you?

[Exalt]

To the people who think Pomegranate is scummy, I have a question—why?

I said she is #2 atm, simply based on what you said that I agreed with.

The main reason I vote for Pomegranate is the way she acted at the start of the game. P

omegranate did not contribute a lot of substance but was quick to jump on the bandwagon of both sraymonds (37) and Jackinthebox (95)

. Pomegranate gave little explanation for her suspicion of either player, except for a short and confusing remark to Jackinthebox (98).

I also said we have little to no content to work with atm and I'm kind of getting tired of it. No one is really scum hunting at all right now, and I feel like I'm having to force the issue to even get people to post ANYTHING.

Adamrights continues to be confusing and not answering questions directly. That is getting irritating.

Miteymouse continues to not scum hunt.

LB is lurking and not answering questions.

Youdontknow has said he has "nothing to post".

Pablo has real life issues and has been active lurking.

sraymonds finally got replaced, but otherwise he was lurking.

This is getting stupid. We have a week left and even after re-reads I feel like I'm grasping for straws trying to find something scummy about people. Too many of you are not posting anything of substance OR scum hunting whatsoever, and generally are avoiding answering questions.

That being said:

Discounting the replacements, the only lurker we have really had is Deep Blue.

I disagree completely. ALL the replacements pretty much have been lurking and generally NOT scum hunting. A few of you have done some things, but players like miteymouse have done nothing but chime in with IC helpfulness every now and then.

With a week left, can people get their asses in gear? I'm tired of trying to draw discussion out every post I make just to see it fizzle because you all want to post one liners. Post something of substance.



As far as polm goes, she is dropping from my list very quickly the longer I see people like Pablo and Mitey and LB actively lurk and not posting any content.


Pablo keeps bringing up the "would you go for a lurker lynch" thing, but I think he is doing it with a sinister goal in mind at this point. HE is actively lurking as he typed the damn question. I think he just wants to make sure he will get away with his lurking, and if anyone tries voting him for it he will use everyone's statements of "I am against lurker lynching" against them as his defense.

Either way, I would prefer you all to start posting content and contributing rather than lurker lynching, but this is getting ridiculous. You are ACTIVE lurking. You aren't going to be replaced, yet you aren't posting content. You are effectively stalling the fuck out of this game when we have a deadline, and that is an anti-town move. Get your asses in gear or get my vote.

[Exalt]

I just think it's very interesting that Pablo's mindset is that getting rid of an obvious mobster is a scummy thing to do. Could it be that Pablo is the other scum?

I do know that this is not how pablo played as town in a past game with him. At the moment he is actively lurking, making one liner posts, and then voting without reason.

This doesn't look very pro-town to me.

Pablo, I would like a reason as well. Don't vote someone without giving a reason, because to me it looks scummy. Are you scum?

[Exalt]

DAMN has Kirbyoshi rocketed to my #1. In the meantime, think about it yourselves.

The only reason I can see it as being scummy is his 3rd vote on adamrights... which you voting him back could also be seen as a chainsaw defense as you HAVE defended adamrights before.

I think I will let this thing play out and see what everyone has to say. This is going to get interesting.

[Exalt]

1. I didn't make myself the suspect to Exalt, and probably not to anyone but you.

I'm reserving judgement on either of you at the moment, because I'm liking where this is going. I agree that both of you just sparked up lots of conversation in a very short amount of time, and that alone is good for town despite either one of your alignments. I have a feeling neither one of you are scum atm. [/quote]

Is Exalt a doctor?

I'm not. I would appreciate you not say these things though, because just as adamrights did it... it can be viewed as rolefishing.... I don't like that you stated me and pablo as possible roles at all.

[Exalt]

I apologize Exalt, and I think I've said before I really didn't have any lead on either of the speculations, I was just saying "what if?" I think you'd make a good doctor, but I don't seriously think you are.

I'm actually a bad doctor lol. Every game I've played where I was a doctor I've been NK'd fairly quickly. I am usually too much of a loudmouth in games for scum to tolerate.

[Exalt]

To the veterans, I have a question: how reputable and how relevant is information that doesn’t come from directly inside the game in Mafia Scum? This may be from inexperience, but comments like Exalt’s in post 196 really irk me the wrong way. He claimed that Pablo played in a different way in a different game. Are we even allowed to make judgments on players based on other games or anything else along those lines? Of course, Kirbyoshi talking about his replacement and Deep Blue makes me nervous for the same reasons. From my perspective this is a very unfair attack on Deep Blue because it is something he never could have guessed would happen and thus, could never prepare a defense for. The fact that Kirbyoshi would even talk about his circumstances of joining this game is particularly interesting to me because it is completely different from the way I approached it. I wanted to be detached from my replacement. I did not wish to speak for him, speak about him, or continue on any path he had started. Was I wrong?

Metagaming is acceptable in most games. It can be very helpful in knowing how a player acts when they are town, mafia, or specific roles. Some players play so scummy ALL the time no matter what that you can't use meta, and they do it on purpose for that reason. Other players look town all the time no matter what alignment. The things I like to notice are how people play DIFFERENTLY than they do as a normal townie. Frankly, my stating Pablo is playing differently can be considered a null tell, and I wouldn't use it as a reason to vote him. I just thought it was something to point out and keep an eye on.

That being said, my number one is still Pomegranate. From the beginning her play seemed scummy to me because, as I have mentioned, she provided the game little content but was quick to jump on easy bandwagons. The defense she has provided for herself has not substantial and is usually confusing to me. Even now, when she has two or three people who believe she is scummy, she has not really said anything about the way she has played this game or given an explanation for some of her actions. She has also been hesitant to keep her vote where it is when it is close to lynch, perhaps to avoid suspicion as someone who lynched a Townie. I am also troubled by her attack on Pablo and adam on post 211, talking about emoticons and circumstantial evidence (Exalt’s view of Pablo’s play in a different game). Trying to interact as scum? Sorry, I don’t buy it. As someone who questioned Pablo’s idea of a lurker-lynch, I firmly believe that he has explained why he mentioned it and later said he did not want it. From my perspective, that claim no longer holds any water. For these reasons, Pomegranate still has my vote.

There is some WIFOM in here, but overall I agree... as I stated in earlier posts. She is still my #2, because I frankly find adamrights to be scummier. Polm's play in a lot of ways looks like she is generally trying to "look" townie and maybe forcing the issue too much, but at the same token that doesn't necessarily mean a townie can't be doing it too.

adamrights is still my number two though I am less certain about him than Pomegranate. I still don’t understand why he asked people to vote for him and is now essentially asking to be lynched in post 236. I just don’t understand why a Townie would ring himself up to the guillotine like that and he has not given any reassurance that that isn’t what he is trying to do. As I have said before, the scum-hunting and back tracking in post 177 is also scum-like behavior to me. Like I said, adam is not as scummy to me as Pomegranate but I think adam has done too many sketchy things to simply pass off as ‘newbie’ behavior. To be fair to adam though, I don’t believe he was role-fishing in post 76.

I don't know... I do believe I was grasping at straws with the role-fishing claim, but at that point in the game we had NOTHING to go by really, and so I took what I had and went with it.

At this point, he has been quite lurkey overall and he isn't trying to scum hunt. I don't know what to think with his self vote... but I've done it before as town.


Also, where is liquid blue? That guy has been lurking forever, and he posts only when prodded then disappears again. I know lurker lynches are bad... but I've seen lurkers pop up as scum as well.... frankly I'm not liking it.

[Exalt]

EBWOP: Deep blue

[Exalt]

Who to vote for? I like that Kirb is adding to discussion, but my reason for actually questioning his scummyness now is that if he knows I’m not scum and he came hard against me – isn’t that going to attract the town’s attention? Perhaps, but I was acting scummy enough that he could maybe blame it on that…so:

VOTE KIRB

FOS: Pablo

Your reason to question him is that you believe he knows you are town but is pushing hard for your lynch???

That doesn't make sense... and it isn't even a case. I do agree that his roleblocker speculation is scummy, but to be honest have any of you read the thread? He said it a long time ago along with the doc/cop thing. Both me AND Pablo pointed it out.

None of you seemed to notice or care before... but now you all jump on the wagon. I'm pretty suspicious of all of you right now on his wagon... He is bringing up points that have already been stressed that none of you would care to go with.... yet you see a vote or two on someone and you jump right on?

Also, the pablo thing adamrights is doing looks like distancing to me at this stage. They buddy up to each other early on, but now that he gets voted for it he is trying to distance himself by FOSing Pablo.

Go figure right?

[Exalt]

I brought it us as well Exalt and told him I'd be watching him. Have you read the rest of the thread? Seeing as you missed that and all.

Now we are getting close to a deadline and need things to happen so we don't end up with a no lynch that helps nobody but, the Scum.

I agree a NL is very bad, and I would vote for myself before allowing one to happen on day 1. At least then town would gain some type of information.

The point is, I don't like how people just jumped on the kirby wagon in the fashion it just happened. You all saw what kirby did before... yet you waited til adamrights makes a weak case and votes for you to jump on it?

Why didn't you vote him yourself earlier if you thought he was scum?

[Exalt]

@Exalt:

I did not suddenly start saying I think Pablo might be purposely buddying up to me. This is my second or third time it happened, and I've always remained cautious of Pablo.

As for me bringing up the suspicions on Kirb. I just went through the forum and did a long post because of being away. That is why I might have added to what you guys said.

But also, what else do we have to go on? Kirb made a slip-up on the game setup, which is scummy. I am not questioning him because he is pushing hard for my lynch. That seems town-like. If he knows I'm not scum he is taking a risk pushing on me...but, because when he did that there was a lot of suspicion against me, I think he could have reasoned that it would be easy to explain-away his bandwagon/push due to most of the discussion pointing at me being the scummiest.

Thus, I think it is worth to risk to lynch him because we might be getting a scum with a role.

Although, knowing that they can discuss pre-game makes it less likely that Kirb is the RB, if there is one, as he could know about the other RB through the QT.

Also, Exalt -- you seem quick to defend Kirb (Chainsaw?) -- perhaps your disappointed that momentum might be moving away from a townie getting lynched to a mobster.

@Kirb:

Is there any reason you chose to mention a specific setup with a role-blocker? What even made you think there was a RB in this game?

Adam, I agree that he COULD be scum, but what I don't like is the fashion everyone jumped on the wagon. I just don't like it. It tingles my scumdar quite a bit.

Miteymouse even claimed he pointed it out earlier and stated he was watching kirby... yet he waits for 2 votes on kirby to vote him? That seems awfully scummy to me. Why didn't he vote earlier?

[Exalt]

EBWOP: I misread things. Mitey voted second... I thought polm voted 2nd, but it was an FOS.


I still think something is up with what is going on. Miteymouse why didn't you make a case yourself? You waited for adam to vote before you jumped on it.... Something isn't right there at all.

[Exalt]

I have been riding Kirby since he came into the game. Just because I didn't vote him does not mean that I wasn't questioning him...did you miss pages 9 and 10?

I've read the whole thread... but you haven't given a case yourself nor did you really scum hunt. You posted a suspicion, yet you waited til someone voted him and gave a case first? I just don't like it.

[Exalt]

When's our deadline? I was gone all yesterday to go to chicago bears training camp... and Friday I'll be gone all day too... I'm going to a cubs game.


So I have today and tomorrow really to post as much as possible and hopefully we can come up with someone before the deadline. I don't want a NL.

[Exalt]

When's our deadline? I was gone all yesterday to go to chicago bears training camp... and Friday I'll be gone all day too... I'm going to a cubs game.


So I have today and tomorrow really to post as much as possible and hopefully we can come up with someone before the deadline. I don't want a NL.

Deadline is Friday.

Ok.



@ Everyone: One more time... please give me your scum list if possible.

Who are your top 2 and why? That's all I want... we don't need possible NK crap going on here... just top 2 scum and why.

I realize you might have said this before, but we need to figure shit out fast.


So far the two wagons are adamrights and kirby.... Is everyone comfortable with these two as possibilities or not? Either way, please state why.

[Exalt]

Ok guys.... heres my stance right now....

Adamrights just FEELS scummy to me... Out of any player in this game I cannot find damning evidence... but I have a gut feeling on adam

I don't have this same feeling on kirby...

I don't know... kirby has made quite a few mistakes, but he has said this was his very first game here

Adamrights has stated he has played on other forums, but this is his first game on mafiascum... but he never claimed to be a newbie


Adamrights is at L-1, but I think we have time to wait til he claims... hopefully he does it pretty quickly though.

[Exalt]

UNVOTE

Just read adam's claim, no CC's I'm assuming? Lemme catch up

[Exalt]

@ Everyone: One more time... please give me your scum list if possible.

Who are your top 2 and why? That's all I want... we don't need possible NK crap going on here... just top 2 scum and why.

Maybe I'm just grasping at straws here, but maybe he said this to make sure no one suspected him?

Seriously? You are flip flopping quite a bit now kirby... why is that?

[Exalt]

Adam: Why pom or me? I don't think you ever said any suspicion of me earlier in the game... so I'm wondering why I am scum king #1 atm simply because I was wrong about my gut feeling...

I mean you even said yourself you played bad... and you looked scummy as fuck to me. Please explain why I am top 2 now

[Exalt]

@adam: Why would you suspect me if Pom flips town? I suggested Exalt before I suggested Pom.

why did you suggest ME when just one day ago you had me as town?

Flip flopping much?

[Exalt]

Ok...the newly found trust between Adam and Kirby is concerning me terribly!

me too... kirby and adam both were gunning for each other, and now that adam claims cop kirby is his best friend... and all of a sudden I become mafia

Great deduction skills you people have.... sigh. Newbie games blah

[Exalt]

I think we should go with Pom. If there is no RB then I am dead tonight. If Pom = the RB, we're in a great position as the doc can keep me alive and I can investigate, otherwise I'll be stuck tonight and we can start scum-hunting tomorrow.

Since you are the only semi confirmed townie at this point, I am willing to follow you with whatever vote you want us to have, even if that meant my own, but what I hope is that you have enough deduction skills to really find scum at this point...

I don't think you will die because I believe we have a doc... but just make sure what you vote is the best actions (if you are town) because at this point we are stuck riding your train of thought.

I had Pom as my #2 behind you.. so I am willing to go for it... Lemme reread the last few pages first, since I am drunk atm and don't feel like hammering on acciddentt when we have another day to go (although I won't be here all day friday, cubs game... possibly later in the night)...

[Exalt]

I officially retract my last statement as following adamrights. I was about to go the easy way out as a drunkie atm, but I just realized that I don't like what is going on right now after reading the last few pages... I really really don't.

I don't like the idea of following adamrights at all, even if he is the cop... because his bad play doesn't make me want to follow him... and frankly even if Pom was my #2, I am having second thoughts. I have to remember this is a newbie game right now... and newb town is more likely than newb scum in most cases. Newb town make far more mistakes I think.

I am leaning toward someone like miteymouse right now tbh. He doesn't seem to have had much influence in the game besides a few IC helpfulness posts... and I just don't get a lot of scum hunting helpfullness from him... I need to reread...

but just in case

VOTE: Miteymouse

this might change depending on who the bandwagon is on the last day (assuming I can make it... I plan on posting at least once more before deadline tomorrow).... I will vote whoever to avoid a NL... but I want to hear from miteymouse right now before the day ends

[Exalt]

Check the vote hoppers on the next Day as, switching near a deadline is a Scum tell...and this ganging up does not look good for you boys!

I am willing to go for this gamble, because frankly this doesn't sound like a townie thing to say being an IC. You know better.

[Exalt]

And I just reread and realized everyone else voted for miteymouse before me... go figure.

Well, I am happy where I stand, it looks like mitey has 3 votes now? He is at L-2 I believe.

I am happy where I am atm.

[Exalt]

Oh look, theres a doctor, and exalt gets called scum for saying that yesterday? Do I really have to explain this?

[Exalt]

Oh look, theres a doctor, and exalt gets called scum for saying that yesterday? Do I really have to explain this?

Of course you have to explain it. As far as any of us were concerned yesterday, it was a 50/50 shot that we had a doctor. All we knew was that we had a cop.

Yet you seemed to know more than everyone else. How is that?

Ever heard of breadcrumbs? I'm not going to out who I think is the doctor simply to explain it. I'll just say I had a good feeling based on what I've read in the posts.

[Exalt]

Oh, and when I wasn't here on that friday... I stated I was going to a cubs game on the tuesday before it... I'm still wondering why people attacked me for not being here when I clearly stated I was V/LA for the day in earlier posts.

[Exalt]

Also, about exalt....what you just did is you kinda just repeated your point. Why does the fact that the doc is alive make Exalt less suspicious?

I didn't say it did... and now you are changing your question completely. You asked how I knew there was a doc, and I said how without actually outting the doc.

Is that really want you want me to do? I don't see that as being a good move at all. You can continue to find me suspicous all you want, but I'm not going to make things easy for scum, which is almost what you WANT me to do.

[Exalt]

I'm lurking right now due to a bunch of real life issues.. but I should be back on track very soon.. sorry about that.

That's okay. Still, I think you were on the right track, and a massclaim might be a good idea.

If we're going to do it, we should do it early, to give ourselves as much time as possible to use the information.

I would like to hear what everybody thinks about it.

I'm not sure a mass claim is smart at all. What we will have is a doc and a cop claim (from adam) and then 7 townie claims...

I don't see a reason for a mass claim whatsoever.. and in fact those of you who are suggesting it are sounding awfully scummy for even thinking this is a good idea.... are you really this dumb or are you just acting?

[Exalt]

Also, please answer my question from the last page:

I don't remember seeing any doc breadcrumbs. Hell, I just re-read the thread and I still don't see any. I find it odd that you think you did. Were you were looking for them?

In any case, if you saw breadcrumbs and thought they were so clear that they were enough to make you confident there was a doc,

why on earth would you announce that?

All you're going to do (if you're town) is tip off scum that someone has been leaving breadcrumbs, since that's the only way you could know (if you're town) that there's a doc. That puts the doc in danger.

Probably I answered it because you are stupid enough to keep asking me NONSTOP why I thought there was a doctor yesterday...

You forced me to answer. Why even ask that question?

You are the one announcing it over and over again... you keep bringing it up... why? You are the one that wants a massclaim when there is no good reason to do it whatsoever... why?


Why are you attacking me for thinking there was a doc yesterday based on a few breadcrumbs, and yet today you are asking for a massclaim so the doc can out himself?

[Exalt]

Wow, Exalt. The question is why you announced yesterday that you knew we had a doc.

Now it's really clear if it wasn't already, so you have no excuse for continuing to twist the issue.

quit trying to say I am twisting the issue... read what you typed before you try to twist things even more

In any case, if you saw breadcrumbs and thought they were so clear that they were enough to make you confident there was a doc, why on earth would you announce that?

That was your question... you asked why I announced I saw breadcrumbs.. and I answered why.


If your question is to ask me why I announced there is probably a doc... does it matter why? I told adamrights that I doubt he would die tonight because we probably have a doc... its newbies like you that twisted it nonstop and made it such the big deal that it isn't... and lo and behold adamrights didn't die and we have a doc


Maybe you need to reevaluate things hmm?

[Exalt]

By the way, here's the reason for a mass claim: it's not likely that we'll have another successful save, but whoever doc is, they have a confirmed innocent for us. At this point doc is more valuable giving us the info than trying for another protect.

Listen, here's the thing with that though... the doc will die immediately after we mass claim... like... immediately. Yes.. it might confirm some townies... but they will all be dead in the next two days basically... Plus... there IS always the chance that scum didn't NK for some odd reason. I do see the point with 3 possible confirms... but that leaves 5 people left... and a misslynch of them could mean doom for the town... especially since adam is outted and will be roleblocked from now on...

ANOTHER thing to realize is... if the doc claims, I don't want to say this but... scum could try to roleblock the doc too... I mean this can backfire completely if we misslynch even once... that's why I think it is better to keep scum guessing... I mean if you didn't see the breadcrumbs, maybe that means scum don't either. I remember an endgame discussion once... I think the game pablo was in with me... that KMD gave a link to a game that was ended... and he showed us what a breadcrumb really was... and I noticed it immediately on my first guess based on the page he said it was on... and yet other players had it wrong and did not see it. We have to hope that scum don't see it...

and me explaining that I saw a breadcrumb is because I was forced to answer why I thought there was a doc... you guys asked the questions and it isn't a question I can ignore, and especially isn't one I can bullshit and lie about... it just would not turn out good... I kind of had no choice...

and yes it was a screw up on my part when I even stated I thought there was a doc... but if you think about it... since the cop already claimed... scum would KNOW if there is a doc or not based on that already since they would know if they have a roleblocker or not... I don't think it mattered that I said I thought there was a doc... but yes I did screw up by even bringing it up and allowing the question to come up, because I shouldn't have sparked that discussion in the first place... so yes I admit it was a mistake on my part

If we get a doc claim, then we will have two more confirmed townies, reducing our pool of possible scum for today's vote from 7 (assuming we believe adam's claim, and I think we should) to 5. That increases our odds of hitting scum today by about 40%.

Yes, it does increase the odds, but at the same time it increases the odds that scum will just NK the powerroles... and if we misslynch it completely screws us... it is a gamble is what I'm saying... and I'm not sure it is the best move today...

do you see what I'm saying? I mean.. if no one agrees than we mine as well do it, but I want everyone to realize the risks involved too... I don't think people are realizing scum will probably just roleblock the doc from then on and NK adamrights... its better if he stays alive... since if we hit a roleblocker then he becomes an immediate game winner almost

See what I mean? If we hit the roleblocker TODAY somehow WITHOUT outting the doc... then adam will not die and he can investigate anyone and everyone... and the game changes to like a 75% town win

so its either 40% higher chance of hitting scum today, yet we lose the cop... or we can look at the long run and see that if we hit the roleblocker somehow today or tomorrow... we save the cop and he wins the game for us...

I am rambling on because im drunk... but you guys get the idea... I think i repeated myself a lot lol... but... blah...

I went to the casino tonight and walked in with $40 just to blow and have fun with... tripled it in blackjack, walked away... put a dollar in the slot machine and got 40 back first spin... and then won 40 more in blackjack on one hand... good night Drank too much though!!!!

Also, I will try to become more active from now on.. I was dealing with more college stuff the last two weeks, since school starts back up on monday for me, so its been a hastle getting everything scheduled and getting books and things... but once the daily routine starts up again, I'll be all good. No finals for me to worry about, just homework


I just realized I typed an essay and all I did was repeat myself and talk about my night... but... blah you get the idea, I'm just trying to show both sides of the spectrum here... its hit or miss either way, but hitting the roleblocker today without outting the doc basically wins the game for town

[Exalt]

1) "This game is not about irony". I nearly fell apart laughing there. Someone explain a joke to this guy. As for the rest, when you brought up roles, there was NOTHING to gain from it. That's why it was scummy. Now, as I just explained through the percentage analysis, we stand to gain something since we have RESULTS (in the form of a doc-save). Get it?

Be nice to the newbies Pablo haha, I know that I call everyone newbs and bad players and things a lot... but I think at the end of the day everyone realizes I'm trying to get reactions rather than purposely being mean just to be a dick (unless I'm having a bad day and AM just being a dick, hahaha, OH THE IRONY!!!!!! hahaha)... You don't have to make fun of him to make your point you ass Be a good IC haha, this IS a newbie game

2) Wait, so being vocal about something you still think is a bad idea means it's okay for him to do it, but not me. Hullo, illogical double-standard.

I agree on this one. Then again... everyone attacked me for saying I think there is a doc yesterday... and yet kirby said he thinks there is a roleblocker BEFORE our cop ever claimed... which is just as bad if not even worse, but at least I overlooked it as speculation, so I'm glad to say I can't call myself a hypocrite on ONE occasion haha, then again I think we are all hypocrites in mafia.. its the nature of the beast (not that I'm defending kirby at all, just saying)

3) Yes, the whole reason around the mass claim is to help us catch scum, but it does not guarantee we will hit scum. My percentages are of a worst-case scenario. Come on, you're nitpicking stupid things and you know it.

I agree completely, as I stated in my very long post before this where i repeated myself 50 times haha. Just one question: I'm too drunk to really do the math right now, but are those percentages accurate, or are they made up numbers right now? I'm not a fan of made up percentages... can you explain it better? I'll probably figure it out tomorrow when I'm sober enough to think straight, but... ya, help out those of us who are mathematically challenged when not sober please

4) Our cop is worthless until we get rid of the RB and do you think the doc has already outguessed the scum once, but I don't know if he/she can do it again. I would love for them to continue to help, but realistically, I'm not sure how much more help our PRs will be.

He is worthless atm, but he is still a confirmed townie, which is not worthless, and also gives the doc someone to protect, and the scum a confirmed person who they are forced to avoid... and if we hit the RB then we basically have an auto-win assuming adamrights makes smart decisions at night

[Exalt]

Hehehe....alright.

I'm your doc. But before I tell who I protected, I want to know who Exalt thought was the doc, and why. It's pretty important that you tell me that truthfully, Ex.

Sigh I just read this. Raskol it was obvious you were the doc the way you were playing... which is a stupid thing to even out yourself.

You attacking me immediately for knowing you were the doc was retarded, and I had to pretend like it wasn't you the whole freaking time... and now you out yourself anyway.

Whatever. I hope we hit scum today, because if not, you just fucked both your roles up fast as hell.

[Exalt]

EBWOP: Just to make it really clear so our drunken coochie monster doesn't have an excuse for missing it this time:

EXALT: WHO DID YOU THINK THE DOC WAS? IM THE DOC AND I CLAIMED AND NOW EVERYONE KNOWS SO TELL ME WHO YOU THOUGHT THE DOC WAS

I knew it was you retard. You claiming "I DONT SEE THE BREADCRUMBS" nonstop was an obvious doc tell. Learn to play your role the right way

[Exalt]

Also, about exalt....what you just did is you kinda just repeated your point. Why does the fact that the doc is alive make Exalt less suspicious?

I didn't say it did... and now you are changing your question completely. You asked how I knew there was a doc, and I said how without actually outting the doc.

Is that really want you want me to do? I don't see that as being a good move at all. You can continue to find me suspicous all you want, but I'm not going to make things easy for scum, which is almost what you WANT me to do.

Remember this? Doesn't it seem obvious I was talking about you the whole time raskol? Sigh...

You are so retarded the way you play. You realize you are just going to be roleblocked and the cop is dead now because of your bad play, right?

I hope you know who the roleblocker is, because if not you fucked over town hardcore. Good job.

[Exalt]

I'm not able to be active enough atm to even do much or care right now. Do what you feel like doing.

VOTE: Exalt

[Exalt]

My bad for not playing the best, but I haven't had the time frankly... I got thrown into a lot of games all at the same time and then I've had tons of real life issues going on. Mafiascum has been on the backburner for quite a while lately. Good luck everyone, was fun playing with you.

I need to find more free time to get back into forum mafia mode, but ATM I don't have the time.


I was going to ask for a replacement, but you all voted me out anyway, so its whatever.

[Exalt]

No, I'm not the roleblocker. You just made adamrights a deadman, and then yourself the following day... I hope you realize this one.

[Exalt]

Two things:

1. It was katy's idea to kill pablo. I wanted to avoid it since he was an IC, but w/e.

2. Katy, why did you kill the doc and not roleblock the cop? What the hell were you thinking? You roleblock the DOC and KILL the cop. That is the smartest thing to do.

Why did you kill the doc and not roleblock?

[Exalt]

each scum only get one night action per night. See the role PM listing in the 2nd post.

This is a really stupid rule. This wastes the roleblocker's role completely. Why did you make the game so impossible for scum to win?

[Exalt]

You were exactly right in what you said in the quick topic, Exalt. I was expecting you to be loud, abrasive, and gung-ho once again, so you sitting back a bit more threw me for a loop.

Yeah, I didn't really have the time to be as active as I wanted to. I was in like 5 games too... so yeah. Summer got in the way! By the time I made the doc slip up, I didn't have the activity to really get out of it and just decided to end the day quick.

[Exalt]

Exalt: She could only do one, either roleblock or kill, not both.

I understand that.. which makes her role useless if a situation happened where the goon were to die, which I did.

I think that the roleblocker should be able to do both actions if he/she is the only scum left. It only makes sense... because this game would not have been ended so quickly otherwise.

The only real option she had assuming the doc was going to protect the cop would be to roleblock the cop again, and keep hoping for misslynches. Eventually she would have lost either way, because she could not in good faith expect to win once the goon is dead in this setup with a doc and cop claim.

Think about it... you can lynch EVERYONE every single day, and yet the doc and the cop would never be lynched, and eventually she would be lynched herself in lylo if it got that far.

That is an unwinnable situation.

Now, if she killed the doc, and adam didn't investigate her, she had a VERY SMALL chance, but not a good one. Even still, it would confirm 3 townies, and she would be dead eventually.


A setup like this where she can either 1. roleblock or 2. kill... but not both at the same time... creates an unwinnable situation if the goon dies.. which is what happened. I do not like the way that was set up.

[Exalt]

Exalt: The only thing I can say to you is if you hadn't slipped up on the whole doc business you might have been around longer to help your scum partner out. The loss in this case has as much to do with your inexperience as it does my bastard modding.

quite possibly, except I've never played a mafia game where scum were so handicapped in such a way...

matter of fact, do you have a win percentage for scum in your mafia games with this type of setup? I can't imagine it being very high

Even with my slipup, which was due to me being inactive and not paying attention due to me being in 5 seperate games (and a newbie one not being on top of my list), I can't imagine a game would be so unwinnable based on if the goon lives or dies early in the game...

With a cop and a doc setup, this makes it next to impossible to win if both were to claim early after a goon dies. I'm sure you can see the dilemma here.