Newbie 818 (Game Over)

[adamrights]

Great, now I have a choice:

Do I keep my vote on adam and suffer the consequences of his lynch toMorrow?
Or do I unvote adam and risk being lynched myself toDay?

I guess for now I'll

Unvote

, counting on someone else to get votes.

Not sure who to vote for now. Any suggestions?

This is the post where I thought Kirby was breadcrumbing btw

[Katy]

FOS: Katy

Katy, it does not sit right with me how you voted for Exalt toward the end of D1. You knew that your vote meant nothing and even said it outright, so what was the point? Exalt already had already brought enough suspicion on himself that your vote didn’t change anything and it just seems like you were trying to fly under the radar to me. Now that I think of it, you haven’t really eyed the “popular” targets at all this game. That in and of itself is not incriminating, I just thought I would go on record saying it.

The point was that at the time I placed my vote I placed it on the person I found most suspicious. If it had been a situation where it would have led to a no lynch, I wouldn't have done it. But the idea is that everyone votes for who they think is most likely to be scum, and that's what I was doing. I don't see why I should have voted for someone I thought was less suspicious just because other people are doing it.

I often get suspected because I don't just go with what the consensus wants, but that's silly. Just following along with everyone else all the time is not a great town characteristic. I follow my own logic and instincts. Sometimes it's wrong, but sometimes I am right, and sometimes harping on someone that's not the "popular" choice can lead to something good. As long as it's not hurting town, I'll follow my own logic and instincts.

Is there any reason not to know who Raskol protected? Now that we have our claims, and I haven't seen a counterclaim forthcoming we should really get down to the business of trying to figure out a lynch. Since the doc is out, getting someone else trusted out of suspicion would probably help get the ball rolling on who IS suspect.

[Raskol]

I'm going to wait until Exalt answers my question first. It really is relevant.

I'll go ahead and tell after Exalt's next post, regardless off whether he answers this time or not. If he ignores the question again though I'm going to think the worst.

Also: adamrights, I think you might be right about the breadcrumb. Strangely enough, I noticed that and I thought it was weird, but I didn't think to interpret the M and D as "MD". So good catch on that one. I can't think of any other reason why someone would capitalize strangely like that.

Given that Kirbyoshi isn't the doc, what does the fact that he was breadcrumbing a claim say about him?

[Raskol]

EBWOP: Just to make it really clear so our drunken coochie monster doesn't have an excuse for missing it this time:

EXALT: WHO DID YOU THINK THE DOC WAS? IM THE DOC AND I CLAIMED AND NOW EVERYONE KNOWS SO TELL ME WHO YOU THOUGHT THE DOC WAS

[Pomegranate]

Given that Kirbyoshi isn't the doc, what does the fact that he was breadcrumbing a claim say about him?

I don't think it says anything good. Maybe he was planning to fakeclaim/counterclaim doc if he was in a position that required claim, and use the breadcrumbs as "proof".

But I guess that's assuming it's a breadcrumb, which does make enouh sense.

[Kirbyoshi]

You helped lynch a Townie and you can’t even remember why? That is not good at all and only means we need to be more careful moving forward.

The post to which you refer was pertaining to Pom, not Mitey. I did not "help lynch" Pom because Pom wasn't lynched. I think it was said earlier in this game that scum doesn't need to read the thread, because they already know who scum is, and who town is...?

Kirbyoshi wrote:
Great, now I have a choice:

Do I keep my vote on adam and suffer the consequences of his lynch toMorrow?
Or do I unvote adam and risk being lynched myself toDay?

I guess for now I'll Unvote, counting on someone else to get votes.

Not sure who to vote for now. Any suggestions?


This is the post where I thought Kirby was breadcrumbing btw

I wasn't breadcrumbing. Using toDay and toMorrow are not breadcrumbs, it is game terminology. toDay=this game day and toMorrow=next game day, while today=this irl day and tomorrow=next irl day. It's easier to keep track of whether we are talking about Mafia days or IRL days.

(Pre-post edit: I read why you thought it was a breadcrumb and almost fell out of my chair laughing. Seriously? Would it really be that obvious?)

[Kirbyoshi]

You helped lynch a Townie and you can’t even remember why? That is not good at all and only means we need to be more careful moving forward.

The post to which you refer was pertaining to Pom, not Mitey. I did not "help lynch" Pom because Pom wasn't lynched. I think it was said earlier in this game that scum doesn't need to read the thread, because they already know who scum is, and who town is...?

Kirbyoshi wrote:
Great, now I have a choice:

Do I keep my vote on adam and suffer the consequences of his lynch toMorrow?
Or do I unvote adam and risk being lynched myself toDay?

I guess for now I'll Unvote, counting on someone else to get votes.

Not sure who to vote for now. Any suggestions?


This is the post where I thought Kirby was breadcrumbing btw

I wasn't breadcrumbing. Using toDay and toMorrow are not breadcrumbs, it is game terminology. toDay=this game day and toMorrow=next game day, while today=this irl day and tomorrow=next irl day. It's easier to keep track of whether we are talking about Mafia days or IRL days.

(Pre-post edit: I read why you thought it was a breadcrumb and almost fell out of my chair laughing. Seriously? Would it really be that obvious?)

[Kirbyoshi]

darn it, sry for the double post >.<

[Exalt]

Hehehe....alright.

I'm your doc. But before I tell who I protected, I want to know who Exalt thought was the doc, and why. It's pretty important that you tell me that truthfully, Ex.

Sigh I just read this. Raskol it was obvious you were the doc the way you were playing... which is a stupid thing to even out yourself.

You attacking me immediately for knowing you were the doc was retarded, and I had to pretend like it wasn't you the whole freaking time... and now you out yourself anyway.

Whatever. I hope we hit scum today, because if not, you just fucked both your roles up fast as hell.

[Exalt]

EBWOP: Just to make it really clear so our drunken coochie monster doesn't have an excuse for missing it this time:

EXALT: WHO DID YOU THINK THE DOC WAS? IM THE DOC AND I CLAIMED AND NOW EVERYONE KNOWS SO TELL ME WHO YOU THOUGHT THE DOC WAS

I knew it was you retard. You claiming "I DONT SEE THE BREADCRUMBS" nonstop was an obvious doc tell. Learn to play your role the right way

[Exalt]

Also, about exalt....what you just did is you kinda just repeated your point. Why does the fact that the doc is alive make Exalt less suspicious?

I didn't say it did... and now you are changing your question completely. You asked how I knew there was a doc, and I said how without actually outting the doc.

Is that really want you want me to do? I don't see that as being a good move at all. You can continue to find me suspicous all you want, but I'm not going to make things easy for scum, which is almost what you WANT me to do.

Remember this? Doesn't it seem obvious I was talking about you the whole time raskol? Sigh...

You are so retarded the way you play. You realize you are just going to be roleblocked and the cop is dead now because of your bad play, right?

I hope you know who the roleblocker is, because if not you fucked over town hardcore. Good job.

[Pablo Molinero]

Heh. You still have not answered the question of how you thought Raskol was doc

originally

. Those instances you cited (Raskol grilling you) came AFTER you initially said "I think we have a doc". I straight up don't believe your above posts.

Your little blow-up on what you think is "retarded play" does not help us, the names you're throwing about it's childish and stupid, and seems a bit forced, actually. Do you not understand we have improved our odds significantly? Are you that blind? You're the only one that does not seem to 'get' it and I'm ready to vote for you a second time once Raskol reveals who he saved.

And I'm also ready for the game to move beyond this role-fiasco and concentrate on who is freakin' scum!

[Kirbyoshi]

the names you're throwing about it's childish and stupid, and seems a bit forced, actually.

Wow, now who's serving up the slice of irony pie? You've been the most abrasive person in this game so far, quite possibly.

You're the only one that does not seem to 'get' it and I'm ready to vote for you a second time once Raskol reveals who he saved.

Policy lynch ftw again, after it failed the last time? I don't get it either, am I scum?

[Pablo Molinero]

You're the only one that does not seem to 'get' it and I'm ready to vote for you a second time once Raskol reveals who he saved.

I don't get it either, am I scum?

Probably.

[Pablo Molinero]

You've been the most abrasive person in this game so far, quite possibly.

Only to you, pal.

Also, why the reaction so quick to something I said to Exalt? Busting out the chainsaw for him?

Policy lynch ftw again, after it failed the last time? I don't get it either, am I scum?

...do you know what policy lynch means? And if you're talking about my Exalt-vote at the end of Day 1, that was far from a policy-lynch.

Oh, and let's have a look at the people who lynched Mitey yesterday: adam, Raskol, Exalt, and Kirby. Two of them are our PRs and I'd be willing to bet that at least one scum was helping it along: you (Kirby) and/or Exalt. Pair that with the fact that Exalt was the dreaded third-vote there (an underwhelmingly-justified one, at that) and you have a suspect.

[Raskol]

Bullshit you knew it was me. Hey guys, I protected Pablo Molinero.

Back in a few with some quotes that show how I knew Exalt was gonna NK him.

[Raskol]

Lets try to actual scum hunt. You and Pablo are trying to avoid doing it by using retarded cases. I know pablo for sure is smarter than this from our past game together, so I am looking at him with suspicion now for even going this route.

Pablo is top 3 for me, only because of the differences he is playing in this game compared to the last one I was in with him.

Pablo keeps bringing up the "would you go for a lurker lynch" thing, but I think he is doing it with a sinister goal in mind at this point. HE is actively lurking as he typed the damn question. I think he just wants to make sure he will get away with his lurking, and if anyone tries voting him for it he will use everyone's statements of "I am against lurker lynching" against them as his defense.

Either way, I would prefer you all to start posting content and contributing rather than lurker lynching, but this is getting ridiculous. You are ACTIVE lurking. You aren't going to be replaced, yet you aren't posting content. You are effectively stalling the fuck out of this game when we have a deadline, and that is an anti-town move. Get your asses in gear or get my vote.

I do know that this is not how pablo played as town in a past game with him. At the moment he is actively lurking, making one liner posts, and then voting without reason.

I don't think you will die because I believe we have a doc...

Adam had already claimed and I was the doc, so I knew there was a roleblocker for sure, and that they were most likely going to RB adam and kill someone else.

K, so yesterday Exalt said he knew we had a doctor, and today he said he knew who it was. Remember that, it's important

Basically, yesterday when I heard Exalt say he knew we had a doctor, I went back and looked to see if I could find any clues as to who he thought it was. The quotes in this post are what I found. Here's basically what I thought last night:

---Exalt says he knows there's a doc. He really shouldn't know that, and if he does know it, he really shouldn't be telling anyone. Chances are he's scum.

---Exalt has been going on all game about how different Pablo is in this game from the last one (where Pablo was vanilla). Apparently, Exalt thinks that in this one Pablo has been active lurking, scumhunting less, making excuses for not posting much, etc. That kind of behavior is either scummy or a sign of a PR. Now of course, if Exalt is scum, then he knows Pablo isn't scum. So he must think Exalt is the doc (adam had already claimed cop).

So I protect Pablo, and hey, guess what, he was the target.

Now today, Exalt dodges all questions on the subject, he gets defensives and insults me, and now he claims he knew I was the doc all along (I'd

love

to see him show a 'breadcrumb' from me. I know damn well I didn't lay any down). Meanwhile, we have here several quotes showing that Exalt thought Pablo was playing in a doctorish way.

Oh, and FWIW, I think it's highly likely that Kirby and Exalt are scumbuddies. They've been chainsawing for each other and feeding each other defenses all game, and generally buddying it up. Exalt was that way a bit with sraymonds, too. But that can come later, I wanna get some discussion on this first.

[Raskol]

EBWOP: It should say "So he must think Pablo is the doc". I really am terrible with names.

[Katy]

Wow, that is pretty damning. So that means Pablo was the target last night. So with Pablo, Adam, and Raskol pretty much cleared (unless there's some crazy fancy gambit going on here), that leaves me, Exalt, Kirb, YouDon'tKnow, and Pomegranate as the potential suspects.

Exalt's explanation seems pretty stammering. His explanation for how he knew Raskol was the doc was because "it was obvious by his retarded play." I think it's pretty clear that Raskol is not playing in a retarded way, and I did not find it obvious in the least that he was doc, even going back to review his posts.

Put that together with the fact that Exalt has repeatedly referred to Pablo's play in a previous game, and that Pablo was clearly gunning for Exalt, I think it's quite likely that an Exalt scum would want to kill Pablo.

Vote: Exalt

Out of the rest, I have been leaning toward Pom for the reasons I've already said. But Kirb is acting a bit strange. I'm going to have to take another look at him.

[adamrights]

Oh, and FWIW, I think it's highly likely that Kirby and Exalt are scumbuddies. They've been chainsawing for each other and feeding each other defenses all game, and generally buddying it up. Exalt was that way a bit with sraymonds, too. But that can come later, I wanna get some discussion on this first.

I agree with the Kirby as possible scum buddy. I started thinking it as I read your logic on Exalt, which was nice thinking and a good call on the Pablo save, especially now in light of his response to me thinking he was breadcrumbing.

It's really funny because I saw the repeating capitalizing MD a whole bunch, but I guess it's because I didn't know the mafia toMorrow/toDay terminology...

Well it's late; will read some more tomorrow.

[hohum]

I apologize if this vote count is wrong. I did it in a haste:

Kirbyoshi(1): Raskol
Pablo Molinero(1): Kribyoshi
Exalt(1): Katy

Not Voting(5) Pomegranate, Pablo Molinero, Exalt, adamrights, Youdontknow

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

[Pablo Molinero]

Heh. This one is a no-brainer for me. I've already explained myself.

Vote: Exalt

Also of note: Katy killed me Night 1 as mafia in a previous newbie game we played together. Just sayin'.

[Katy]

Yep, that's true. All I can say to that is that it means essentially nothing in determining whether I am scum right now, unless Exalt turns out to be town. Then sure, I'd expect people to look at me since I've admittedly played with you before.

On the other hand, it could be mafia tried to kill you simply because you are an active IC, or because two people in the game have indicated playing with you before so it would be a good frame opportunity.

I'll wait to see what happens with Exalt before I get all worried about the fact that we've played together before.

[Raskol]

At the beginning of the day I also thought it might be that someone killed Exalt for other reasons, like just being an IC. That's pretty much the reason I didn't jump right out with the accusation right away. I wanted to give Exalt a chance to show that he was innocent first by asking him who the doc was.

If he said Pablo I would have been much less suspicious of him because as scum I doubt he would have been willing to say that, knowing that Pablo had been the target. I would also have accepted other answers if he gave some actual reason for them, or could.

But the answer he actually gave was imo a pretty good indicator that he's scum. He couldn't think of any way that he would have known last night I was the doctor, so he basically resorted to calling me names and saying he knew I was the doc yesterday from things I did today. I don't even really doubt that he figured out today that I was the doc: I wasn't really trying to hide it anymore since I knew after I saw the successful save that I'd more likely than not want to claim sometime today anyway. But the point is that knowledge today is not the same as knowledge yesterday, and I really do defy Exalt to come up with anything I said or did

yesterday

that would cause any reasonable, non-mafia person to think I was the doc, or even that there was a doc based on my posts.

I think the reason he gave it had more to do with ego than anything else: the fact that he's called me a newbie and a retard several times suggests he's pretty invested in being seen as having been right. I guess that's a good thing for us since he probably could have gotten off in my eyes if he'd given almost any other answer than the one he did.

All in all, I guess it's still possible that exalt isn't scum and that someone else did the nk for some other reason. But given everything I think it's most likely that it was Exalt. Someone else might have NK'ed Exalt because he was an IC, but Exalt had that reason plus all the others, and his behavior today under question has revealed mostly behavior that suggests scum, the answer he gave being the last straw.

I'm going to vote him him, I think, but I'll give him one more chance to explain himself first. There's no rush, I guess.

[Pomegranate]

Whoa, I just got home, and I see Exalt's response about Raskol's "retarded play", and I'm shocked! Raskol's been playing great! Then Raskol says he protected Pablo, and shows how he decided that it was a good idea.! Exalt never

did

answer the question of how he came to the conclusion that there was a doc, and considering that Raskol has been playing very well, he isn't making any sense. Exalt was against the mass claim, or at least the doctor claim, knowing that it was likely that he'd be indicted.

It was smart play on Raskol's part that he protected Pablo (*applauds*).