Open 143: Jungle Republic (Game Over!) before 787

[AA23]

So either, you deny this because it'll ruin your theory or because you're just stupid.

Stop with you negativity and name calling already.

My opinion stands strong on the meta.

Ok, I'll take the dictionary approach.

Scummy - To play as Mafia might.

Isn't that generally what "scummy" means?

Good - now the second part - can you clearly list, explain, and attach said player's to what they did that mafia would.

[AA23]

So either, you deny this because it'll ruin your theory or because you're just

stupid.

I'm not "name calling",

if you seriously can't understand a concept as simple as that, then I can't imagine you having an IQ above what would make you legally

retarded

. So your "opinion", even though that's not what it is, stands strong and wrong.

You've officially displayed gameplay and behavior worse than my early cockyness. I'm not impressed.

For the last time - I take personal offense to the statements about mental health persons, I do not appreciate general name calling, your nastiness, and your insistant behavior to argue with me.

Please. Please stop being derrogatory toward the mentally handicap, and please stop being nasty.

Good - now the second part - can you clearly list, explain, and attach said player's to what they did that mafia would.

A bunch of things. I don't have the time nor patience to look through all of his games and find them.

When you have the time to scum hunt and be clear about what you mean when you call someone "scummy" - then post. I didn't know you lacked patience or care to actually play the game.

[AA23]

@ Khamisa

You made mention of saying that I didn't want Mix lynched (or something on those lines) - - I assure you, that at the days end, when it was between Mix and Ace, I preferred Mix, and was suspicious of Ace.

I've explained why one needed to go.

I've explained how I decided to go about it (the meta investigation)

And it pointed to Ace. That's all.

Re-read my posts leading up to the vote and after it - I make my feelings very clear.

[AA23]

Thanks for working out the numbers Percy -

I'm conflicted with where my vote is best placed.

Mix(Sotty) flipping town, would have put this notion in my head:

Percy, Thesp, (Ash) - Mafia

Dej, Emp - Wolf

What doesn't make sense to me is Dej's relationship with Sotty.

Vote Count

Sotty7 3 - AA23, Percy, Thesp
AA23 2 - dejkha, Empking
Percy 1 - Sotty7
dejkha 1 - Hewitt

Sotty7 is -2

This is the votecount from top of page 27 - -
With that theory of mine, it would look like:

The wolves gaining up on me, trying to push for a mislynch at my demise so they can have one towny down (me) then be put into their free NK.

Then we have Thesp and Percy on the Mix(Sotty) wagon with me - - looks like two scum buddies possibly hopping on board to kill who they think is either:

A towny death (though that would help both sides, and after losing their third, Ash, they would want to hit the wolves)

which makes me go "ah! Do the scum also think Dej is likely wolf, and are voting who they feel is his partner because of how reluctant he was to have anything to do with the wagon?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I'm conflicted.

My idea of WW lies between Dej, and either Emp/Mix.

His relationship to Emp is questionable, but still, as Percy showed, a variable (and if Percy is town/scum, he would indeed want to know the true identity of the WW and not lie/manipulate) - so his posting showing the Dej/Emp interations has me sold that maybe it's a thin road to follow.

What also aids this - - is Mix(Sotty)/Dej relationship. Dej does NOT want ANYTHING to do with the wagon of who could very well be his wolf buddy. And although Sotty had humored some pairing notions, I haven't seen a vote thrown down (If I for some warped reason missed this - a thousand apologies, just correct me!)

So in short, I feel Dej is Wolf, and am conflicted as to whether his partner is Emp/Mix(Sotty).

My vote is on Sotty. What Sotty flips will be

very

valuable to me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Sotty

My vote stays on you unless I see you vote Dej, I think (and in the event of that happening, my vote would follow onto Dej). Otherwise, I'll have to assume you're his Wolfbuddy.

[AA23]

I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling you what I'm going to do.

We have different opinions of endgame pairs, and that's fine.

My vote is on you because it logically suits the pairing I'm thinking of.

My vote changes if I see you vote who I think your buddy is (logically), my vote changes if you flip to a villain allignment I didn't foresee, my vote changes if you flip town.

That's all.

[AA23]

@ Khamisa -

Note that what made you believe Percy is town is the very evidence that would point scum, and not wolf as well - - it would be fair to acknowledge both sides.

His calculations point to lynching wolf, I agree with it.

But remember townies want to lynch wolves as much as scum.

Vote Count

AA23 2 - dejkha, Empking
Sotty7 2 - AA23, Thesp
Percy 1 - Sotty7
dejkha 1 - Hewitt
Empking 1 - Percy

[AA23]

You said that you would unvote me if I voted dej. That's direction my friend. With a little bribery in there too.

I assure you, and clarify - it's a statement of what I plan to do in logical events, not instruction - - your attitude on this strikes me as insecure and jittery, so for the last time:

Logically - I wouldn't be voting you if I saw you voting the person I reckon to be your partner, I would logically go put my vote on that partner.

If you flip town, I change my voting accordingly to my hypothesis, if you flip a villain of a different color than WW, I change accordingly.

It's all circumstantial, and I've made myself clear - - I find it suspicious for you to chase a petty argument like this - it's kind of beneath you.

Final - to clarify - it's not instruction, it's an out loud annoncement of how I'm approaching the game (logically)

[AA23]

The wolves gaining up on me, trying to push for a mislynch at my demise so they can have one towny down (me) then be put into their free NK.

^In this post, more scummy wifom and the assumption that anyone knows who town is. Did you know when you assume, you make an ass out of yourself? (truth)

Ladies and Gentleman. He first proved to have poor attitude and negativity in the game - - and now, hypocritically,

Dej has directly misrepresented me.

Next time use the whole post, Dej

Vote Count

Sotty7 3 - AA23, Percy, Thesp
AA23 2 - dejkha, Empking
Percy 1 - Sotty7
dejkha 1 - Hewitt

Sotty7 is -2

This is the votecount from top of page 27 - -

With that theory of mine, it

would look like

:

The wolves gaining up on me, trying to push for a mislynch at my demise so they can have one towny down (me) then be put into their free NK.

[AA23]

How is it logical that you would unvote me and vote him if I do?

Because I regard him as Wolf.

I regard you as his partner.

It wouldn't make sense for you to vote your own partner in my eyes - logically, I would change to the priority vote.

Then what happens if dej flips wolf/scum? Will you just not vote me again saying I only voted him because you asked me too?

If Dej flips wolf, I'll examine those on and off the wagon and approach it then.

What if dej flips town? WIll you find my vote switch to appease you suspious?

it's not to appease me

if he flips town, I'll examine from there.

You have put me in a lose, lose situation.

I lose if I switch my vote to dej, I lose if I don't.

That's just an opinion you have - - I'm not the judge, man, try and convince the rest of the game, it seems aggressive for you to press this with me solely.

You can do whatever you want, I'm one little vote, Sotty.

[AA23]

That "would look like" doesn't change anything. You still assume that someone knows who town is. So you made an ass out of yourself, while trying to prove that you didn't. Very nice.

I'm saying Thesp and Percy, IF they were scum, would know that anyone who was not THEM are either town or wolf.

So yeah. I'm assuming they would know.

lol you're funny.

[AA23]

@Sotty
Interactions, behavior, and relationships in respect to my hypothesis on the endgame pairings it what's fueling my voting process.

@Dej
Where am I saying wolf's know who town are? Why is this important?

This hardly seems important, Dej, it's another difference of opinions, if you don't care for my thoughts, you're free to do that, but it just seems like you have no scumhunting left in you - - just the will to bicker with me.

So: Peace, Dej.

[AA23]

for the record

Vote Count

Sotty7 3 - AA23, Percy, Thesp
AA23 2 - dejkha, Empking
Percy 1 - Sotty7
dejkha 1 - Hewitt

Sotty7 is -2

Dude. I suggested I had two wolves ganging up on me. - - the wolves know who they are, they are left with only town and scum opposed to them- - they know.

I suggested both mafiascum were teaming on the Mix wagon - - both scum know who they are - - anyone else is either town or wolf - - they know.

You're wrong, Dej, I'm not making an ass by saying that - - if anything, you're digging a hole - - a pointless hole.

[AA23]

Read my last post -

I'm saying they're ganging on me because they would score killing me, and getting a NK

That's a mislynch and a free kill.

and it's a MISLYNCH because I'm town and I know I'm town.

Not complicated, Dej.

You and Sotty got REAL nervous over this, and it only fuels me.

Logic and calculation will prevail here

[AA23]

You seem to think I'm hypothetically speaking their intentions when in reality I'm speaking about my interpretation.

[AA23]

you're namecalling me numb nuts and are calling me illogical -


both opinionated and rude.
------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not insisting they know I'm town, I was SUGGESTING that lynching ME together and getting their free NK would be something they WANT because it would eliminate their enemies (town/scum)
----------------------------------------------------------------

Percy, Emp, Hewitt, Khamisa, Thesp.

Sotty and Dej are getting real active over my gameplan and thoughts on the subject, I would like to hear your opinions and I motion that we eliminate Mix(Sotty) to reveal her as Wolf.

The following nightkill will potentially eliminate a scum (attached to a person I've supposed as scum, thus proving me accurate, still) or a towny (which eliminates who the villains can hide behind) - - which means I can persue Dej afterward.

Then, his lynch will result in townies vs scum and no nk's - - and scum won't be hurting themselves by going along with this logical plan because they are on the same sides as townies in wanting to eliminate wolves (the enemy of our enemy is our friend)

So I motion to lynch Mix(Sotty). If everyone would please respond, it's appreciated.

[AA23]

Percy, Thesp, Khamisa, Emp, Hewitt.

Please get back to my post when you get a chance

[AA23]

I'm shopping around more than Dej telling people "puh-puh-pweese can we just lynch AA?"

***I have mentally handicapped people in my immediate family. For the last time - cut the use of the word out***

I have to stop asking people to be nice because you feel I make cases that suck and don't give in to others?

I would understand if you told me I was being as VISCIOUS in return to the people insulting the lifestyle of my family members I love, or the name calling.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have maintained that my engame pairing is a HYPOTHESIS.

Next time, just say you disagree and keep your ridiculous rants and pictures to yourself! Act like an adult for crying out loud.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

You've also completely misrepresented my case. Re-read.

I feel that

Dej is wolf.

I suspected his partner of being Emp, but since

you

pointed out that he indeed has made mention and interaction with Emp, I regarded that as less noteworthy as the way Dej is so against a Mix(Sotty) lynch - - I regard their interactions and relationship, and behavior as buddies.

Everything is just an OPINION - - and why WOULD you agree with me? It would make you scum.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've presented my thoughts, hypothesis, feelings, and my reasons.

My vote is down, and I've requested people please regard my earlier post laying out my line of thought as well as the posts throughout the recent activity.

If someone has a

difference of opinion

I'd appreciate you acting like an adult and not harrassing me - - keep it to yourself unless you would like to offer the TOWN, as in EVERYONE evidence to support YOUR OWN theories.

no more political incorrectness please - It's rude and I've repeatedly asked.

[AA23]

**What you

mean

by using that word, the connotation - - it is the very reason I don't want you to USE that word - - in using THAT WORD to call me and tell me every mean thing you think about me, you consequently call the people who are ill those things**

And to your previous post.

Not at all.

I don't change my mind willy nilly, I explain everything I do - - you however,

disagree

. I understand that, but don't make it grounds to call me WRONG.

Defensive? Every time I make a final statement and sit back to wait for the rest of the town to read, I'm ATTACKED.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I maintained I felt Mix was a villain and that I was suspicious of Ace.

That NEVER changed - my voting, my questioning, my theories,

always

applied to

thinking Mix was a villain, and being suspicious about Ace

.

The next day swings around, and I state that I believe:

Thesp and Percy are scum and Ash was their third partner.

I stated this because both of you were more confident in the Mix case a day later. Thesp was confident in it with no new information or evidence and admits that nothing Sotty said would have stopped his vote. You were more confident about it in a more vocal way that would have been useful the PREVIOUS DAY when I needed votes on that wagon - - - oh and lets not forget that your confidence in that case was only as strong as any suspicion on you - - you were quick to get right off of it and cover your ass (as Sotty pointed out)

So YEAH - I have reasons based on you actions, behavior, and the relationships I note as to WHY I think you are scum with Thesp.

That aided my theory. All scum sorted out in that hypothesis (Thesp, Ash, Percy) - - which meant that the only variables left were Werewolves. A duo.

Then came the noted issue of Dej and Emp having a suspicious behavior. Two werewolves left - and two uncharacteristic people - my eye went toward them.

I grew to regard Dej as certain werewolf in my opinion. I just wondered if he was allied to Emp.

Then I heavily considered my feelings to Mix, and my feelings to Emp.

Dej/Emp - - that was a variable and opinionated. Dej/Mix(sotty) That was pages and pages of Dej being suspiciously aggressive about a case on Mix. I mean it's one thing to have a difference of opinions and not be on it - but to flat out be the smear campaign manager of it?

So I told myself to stick to my guns.

I had my hypothesis complete.

Thesp, Pecy, Ash - mafia

Dej, Mix(Sotty) - werewolves.

All based on the forementioned actions, behaviors, suspicions, and gameplay.

I have not been flip flopping wild as you seem to be trying to illustrate for the townies to read.

These are my thoughts and feelings. They have warrant and I stand by them.

So for the last time:

Given my endgame pairing, I am voting Mix(Sotty) and am hoping to eliminate Dej as well - - that way there are no more NK's.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if anyone DISAGREES with me, I will make obvious note of it when I see you post your own case, and thoughts. I don't need anyone attacking me over this

[AA23]

And no Percy, agreeing with me is not a scumtell.

I'm saying that if you agreed with me, it would make you scum (because I believe you are scum. Check my endgame pairing. If you agree with me, you are agreeing with me that you are scum)

Hence I'm not surprised you're guns blazin' toward me

[AA23]

Defensive? Every time I make a final statement and sit back to wait for the rest of the town to read, I'm ATTACKED.

No, your arguments are attacked, yet you act like anyone who doesn't agree with you straight off the bat is a moron.

In addition to being attacked, I'm the one that's being called the moron, stupid, and other names.

I regard people as ignorant and narrow minded when they constantly attck an opinion - - its useless, nobody truly KNOWS anything.

[AA23]

You're entitled to you opinion - - I'm just chilling until everything plays out at this point - we'll know more in time.

Why are all these random words being bolded? I think It's a clever form of daytalking between the scum.

Scum can talk at any time Khamisa*

[AA23]

@ Thesp -

In ref. to what may have been a raised eyebrow about your certainty on Mix being new or innovative -

That's a null tell and unfair for me to make a concrete statement about - it would be bias and irresponsible of me seeing as the day before the lynch of Ace, you made it clear that you were content on seeing either one of them (Ace/Mix) lynched - and even had a vote on him.

[AA23]

Why are all these random words being bolded? I think It's a clever form of daytalking between the scum.

Scum can talk at any time Khamisa*

Thinking about it - this makes me feel a bit better about Khamisa.

I've had a slip up with the set up myself way back in the posting - - which is to say that at this late in the game - when the rules on what villain roles can do in the game having been mentioned twice already - it's a curious statement. How could that be missed? Twice.

Khamisa - post 148 - - he corrected my own mistake on the set up and expressed a good knowledge of the set up. I think in light of this, that he is planting that, and you, Thesp, are hopping on it because he could be your buddy.

In respect to my endgame hypothesis - - could Percy's place be exchanged with Khamisa, I wonder?

Mafiascum - Khamisa, Thesp, Ash
Wolves - Dej, Mix(Sotty)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, I see what you mean, AA. But still, Dust claiming as Mafia has it's pros and cons.............we should talk about how people have reacted to the claim, which AA has been doing a pretty good job of. Here's my list of people on the wagon.

Scum Read:

Ace

- For trying to mislead the town into thinking Dust has used an apparent scum meta in multiple games whenever he was scum. This was proven as a lie when Ace said that this only happened once when he was later called on it. Reference to posts 152 to 154

Flipped TOWN

Zwet

- Obviously for trying to get a counterclaim. I'm thinking a very likely werewolf.

Flipped TOWN

Emp

- Only loosely though, because of post 106 where he asks for a claim and tells people not to CC if he claims Seer. Like someone else said, he could've been communicating with a partner. That partner obviously being Dust. I'd also say possible werewolf.

Flipped ????

AshMC1984

- He's made 4 short game relevant posts out of the 172 that have been made. What's there to say? Lurking scum? He unvoted after Dusts claim (his vote remained there from the RVS and he apparently never got around to changing it) and votes Zwet for voting without good reasons and trying to get a CC. He, however, doesn't mention Ace, who had the same reason for voting Dust as Zwet.

Flipped SCUM

So my feeling is:

If my read is correct on Dej, he seems to have been hunting townies and scum (the only targets that remain for a Wolf, since he knows who his partner is - MIX)

Note their connection:

Town/ No Read:

AA23 - AA has been seemed pretty town to me in the sense that he hasn't done anything scummy that I remember, and has been generally telling us all with good reasons, who could be scum on the wagon as well as providing different possibilities.

Percy - Hasn't done much of anything scummy, but at the same time, nothing much pro-town either.

Possible Scum Pairs

Zwet/ Ace Werewolfs (Most likely)
Ace/ Ash Mafia (Possible)
Emp/ Dust Werewolves .

No suspicions on Mix, the person I regard as his potential wold partner

.

Suspicions on scum, town, and

Emp!

D1, Dej in fact did give Emp appropriate attention!
-----------------------------------
So I think Dej is Wolf, and his partner is Mix.

1.They never persued a case or anything on eachother, yet shared everything in common with their scope on who's who - they are particularily playing together, they are alligned
2. They danced around the very people they as wolves think are mafiascum - enemy to townies and wolves, yet they establish a relationship with each other and make a point never to suspect one another?

They are BOTH hunting the SAME.

And Mix's actions:

Side note:

@Gorckat

(Thesp)

- You digging to China there?

@Mod - Can we get prods on Ash and Khamisa?

I wonder.

If I'm wrong about Percy, the three scum could have been

Thesp, Ash, and Khamisa

People that Mix deduced on his own accord to potentially be mafia (something that matters to him since he in this instance would be wolf. With Dej.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
In my re-read - - I saw that I had a lot of support from you guys, all of you, everyone on this board made an effort to converse like adults and have fun figuring things out.

I want things to go back to that civility- - -

I'd like to point out that nobody branded me satan over the Dust wagon and I was honest very early about trying to lure scum out of the wood work - - even Dust was on my side with that risk, I have the posts if you guys need.

To the chase - - we all got a long. We can continue to get along.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So to finalize, in like of evaluating Khamisa, doing a re-read from the beginning, and his apparent attempt to seem like clueless towny, I exchange his place in my hypothesis from Percy.

Mafia scum - Thesp, Ash, Khamisa

Wolves - Dej, Mix

Within my hypothesis and observations**

Mix was incredibly scummy with the opportunistic hammer.

His wolf buddy Dej seemingly made a point NOT to suspect him throughout the entire game, yet they have played quite

parallel

to each other -- both of them have kept out of the other's cross hairs, and both have hunted the same people - - which connects me to:

Scum. They hunted the same people I've noted as possible mafiascum.

We have a flipped Ash (who kept his activity low with Gorkcat [thesp] and needed prodding from the suspecting wolf, Mix)

[AA23]

Khamisa - post 148 - - he corrected my own mistake on the set up and expressed a good knowledge of the set up.

1. Khamisa is a she.
2. Knowing how many scum there are in this game is different to knowing this game-specific rule allowing scum to daytalk.

@Sotty: What do you think of dejkha?

It has already been mentioned - - early in this game, when I first made the mistake of not being sure about the scumtalk - - that they can do it any time.

It was posted on the first page, it was posted again later when I accused Emp of trying to scumtalk - - it was announced that scum can talk anytime, and everyone was on the same page from there on out

Having a slip like that seems intentional, and it looks like Thesp is feeding on it to perhaps buddy and clear his scumpartner.
----------------
Also - your directed question to Sotty right after telling me I'm selective in what I look at.

Sotty expresses all of these suspicions and queries in Dej but does nothing about it? That's not odd to you?

He's even more confident that someone else is scum, but doesn't vote them?

You ended that post asking him his thoughts on Dej - you came to the same final destination I did - - wanting to know Sotty's reaction to all of this.

I myself am basing my voting and other actions on how the relationships play out. I took time with that post so that you would know where I was coming from.

And do Wolves want town dead? YES
Do wolves want Scum dead? YES

Did Dej and Mix have a relationship and parallel gameplay in who they focused investigative scopes on while conveniently keeping clear of eachother? Yes - - that's the relationship I'm talking about.

Townies don't know for certain who villains are, but we still hunt for them, don't we, Percy? - -how can you tell me I'm baseless to say that wolves are hunting as well. I'm just pointing out the patterns between the two players in the early game until before the replacements.

I for one concur and think Dej is hiding.

He's picking a whole lot of arguments with me and is contributing as little as other people have been accused of.

I'm happy with a Dej/Mix lynch today

[AA23]

I didn't see 773 before I submitted the post.

Yes, I'm town. You don't easily get away with making every existing player want you dead and somehow be in cahoots with them.

My playstyle is aggressive, but I'm not close minded to talking things out - - if people would tell me "I disagree with you on this because" - - even if you tell me it's a GUT feeling, I'm cool with that - just don't tell me I'm wrong and crazy (gen. statement)

[AA23]

For people in general, I think they should be lynched for scummy behavior and/or playing unlike themselves when compared to similar game situations/conditions.

Not so much in Emps case though. He should just be lynched for being him.

This narrow mindedness makes it hard to trust your logic.

I see where you're going with this, but that and how it appeared she was unaware of that both tug me in an opposite direction, leaving me right where I started. But, you refer to it as her correcting your own mistake when after that post you explain how it wasn't a mistake. Why is it a mistake now?

I'm not sure what you mean by this - - but I'm stating that Khamisa is not truly clueless to whether scum can talk - - it's a topic that is on the first page AND was spoken about already - - it's suspicious.

I appreciate you looking back for that, but I don't think you should incriminate Thesp because he got the notion of her being town, because I'm sure a lot of people didn't remember post 148.

Thesp wasn't around when all of us were on the same page and knew how many villains there were, and who could talk during the day.

I'll take that - it's reason enough to give Thesp the benefit of the doubt - but the attempt can very much have been made by Khamisa, and if scum can speak any time, there is always the possibility they spoke about it.

If my read is correct on Dej, he seems to have been hunting townies and scum (the only targets that remain for a Wolf, since he knows who his partner is - MIX)

This implies Zwet and Ace were not scummy. Why would you vote for Ace if he wasn't scummy? Not two mention how that logic could be applied to anyone who was on both wagons, but you continue to single me out for some reason.

It's not a matter of where solid votes went - - it's the matter of where your investigative scope directed itself - -

you have a habit of trying to "sum up" what I say, and in the process, you misrepresent it (ironically) - please stop

No suspicions on hewitt either. Neither of them posted much up to that point so I forgot to include them.

True, however you have given him attention you haven't given Mix.

And (primarily) you and Mix have shared the same hunting patterns.

His wolf buddy Dej seemingly made a point NOT to suspect him throughout the entire game,

No, I made the point that I DONT suspect him. I never said I'll never suspect him. More lies. It never ends, does it? Yet, you still expect people to take you seriously.

You're misrepresenting me again.

You seem to feel that things need to be literal and direct to be "true".

It is

fair

for me to say that you have been a bold voice that has NOT been

for

the Mix vote.

It would be very ignorant of you to suggest I'm wrong saying that you are against the Mix vote.

You're picking more fights.

I think you're hiding behind your childish bickering. You even admit you don't ask questions (which, sorry, constitutes as not scum hunting....which doesn't help us very much, does it?)

Since Percy backed out.

Unvote Vote: AA

That's your reason?

So Dej. When you're not bickering, and are admittedly not scumhunting via asking questions - - can you explain how I am worthy of a vote?

And do let the reasons be better than "just for being AA" - - what you think works for Emp doesn't jive well for everyone else, I'm sure.

I think you're reacting to the pressure, Dej. Keep at it.

[AA23]

You said I'm hunting townies. That would mean I voted for two people that specifically weren't scummy. Why would you do the same thing with Ace?

Dej, as a wolf, it wouldn't matter who you're after, everyone is the enemy - I'm pointing out that in accordance to my suspicions, as a wolf, your attempts to vote and kill opposition were paralelled to Mix, making you partners.

You both had the same reads on who were mafiascum - - they are on the same people I regarded as such - -

You said I made a point NOT to suspect Mix the entire game. That means that I made the point that I would never suspect him, which I didn't. It's not misrepresenting when that's what you said.

Now it's just annoying, Dej.

Fine:

Dej, have you ever had any positive thoughts toward presented suspicions, cases, or votes toward Mix?

Did you ever want anything to do with a wagon on him?

Was I wrong to infer that you boldly wanted nothing to do with the Mix Wagon? (and do trust everyone else is following this absurd issue you're making over nonesense)

That's your reason?

So Dej. When you're not bickering, and are admittedly not scumhunting via asking questions - - can you explain how I am worthy of a vote?

And do let the reasons be better than "just for being AA" - - what you think works for Emp doesn't jive well for everyone else, I'm sure.

It all comes down to your massive

wifom

, constant

lying

,

misrepresenting

and

word twisting

in order to put things in your favor and incriminate others. I can't see how anyone else can be considered scummier than someone who repeatedly does these things to no end.

Even if you were a tunnel visioned townie

, there's no reason to do these things. So quite frankly I'm a little confused as to my anyone isn't voting you.

Hypocritical.

lying, misrep, and word twisting are all

one thing

in any context you choose to present it.

Furthermore - they are all opinionated - - we've all seen what you regard as a LIE.

If you think I'm mistaken on something or have poorly inferred something - call that out - but saying it's a lie and voting me for it (while hypocritically playing a word game to make one point seem like many) just to vote me?

That's weak. And it's reaching. And THAT'S why I think you're reacting to pressure.

**Any poor inference or misrepresentation by means of "summarizing" interpretations that I'm illegedly guilty of are things you yourself have done. For every one count you find of me inferring something differently or misreping, I can find two for you**

Oh and just a side note - - your entire case is opinionated and only attempts to prove I've been a rushy and poorly phrased player - - I've done none of the forementioned things to achieve scum goals of any sort.

Manipulate people? I've had everyone against me!
Lie? That's your opinion - - why would I risk lying about something stupid and small that achieves nothing, anyhow?

So once again, Dej - I see you reacting to pressure. That's all.

[AA23]

**And for the record - I know we're having another head a tete, but I'd like to thank you for being more civil - I can notice already and will happily reciprocate the maturity.

I'm happy to answer questions, I'm happy to hear you out - -

we just need to learn to settle on agreeing to disagree

[AA23]

Why do me and mix have to be werewolves hunting town? Why can we not be mafia hunting scum, but instead had mislynches and Ash was our partner?

Because you show a relationship with one other person (making two in total which equals wolf) - - and you and that other person seemed to have been hunting toward three other people who I reckon are Scum - - it's a matter of numbers that determined the allignment.

You and Mix were interested in the same people and played alike.

Mod: Can you please prod Khamisa and Ash? And can we get a vote count?

You both kept asking to bring in Khamisa and Ash (One flipped scum, the other suspected) two thirds of one faction.

Like I said, it's numbers that make you wolf and not scum. - - I regard your behavior as practically buddying with Mix(Sotty), your play is parallel, and you have suspected the same group of people, one of which is confirmed mafia (and since you wouldn't be hunting your own) it makes you wolf (and further makes sense why you're seemingly in league with only one other person)

Or why can we not both be town and just had mislynches? Like Percy said, all you're doing is saying things so they work with your theory.

The theory developed in observing you and others - - I didn't form the theory out of a hat and play a game to make it fit.

1. Only that

the hammer was a scummy thing to do

, but I didn't feel like it was anything to make a big deal out of.
2. Not for the reasons you do. Possibly if something else came up.
3. You are correct, I wanted nothing to do with the Mix wagon, for reasons you presented.

Hypocritical.

One of my PRIMARY reasons was that the hammer was scummy. You only now voice that you agree with that point?

Lying, misreping and twisting words are a good way to make town lynch someone not on your faction, believe it or not.

Manipulate people? I've had everyone against me!
Lie? That's your opinion - - why would I risk lying about something stupid and small that achieves nothing, anyhow?

I don't recall saying you were manipulating anyone, so I never accused you of lying about that (not sure where you got that idea). I'm only accusing you of lying about things that you have in fact lied about.

"I want to kick your father in the balls until he bleeds from the mouth just to be sure that he never fowls the earth with another useless offspring." - you ever hear that phrase?

I'll come back to it - - because the above movie quote Dej, which you oh so remind me of, is a prime example of LITERAL words with CONNOTATIONS.

See, if someone said that quote to me - - I would tell someone "they don't like me!"

and you would go "Bah humbug!! They never said they didn't like you! You're a liar"

Do you see how it works? Eh? Do you understand connotation, implication, and inference, now?

It all comes down to your massive wifom, constant lying, misrepresenting and word

twisting in order to put things in your favor and incriminate others.

Do you understand that when you say things - - they come with connotations? They come with implications? Things to be inferred and understood?

Like the comment about "kicking your dad in the balls until there is nothing left but wet bloody pelvic bone in an attempt to create new form of birth control" - - do you see how the quote uses LITERAL words to SUGGEST and IMPLY that someone doesn't like you?

Well in the above quote (about manipulation), you imply that the

reason

I

illegedly

lie is to twist thought processes in the town to my own devicces? THAT is manipulating.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Every. Single. Account. Of lies.

All of them - they aren't lies, it's misinterpretations at best, Dej.

You see - - technically, you do NOTHING BUT LIE. But I don't call it out.

Here is an example, of something that you would call me a liar for, that you did earlier:

I dun care

. Also, I just noticed how

you never spoke up against the reasons for voting him, until

after

he was lynched

. As far as I could tell, you

never even tried to explain why Zwets approach to a CC wasn't scummy until

after

he was lynched

. I guess you were just waiting to set people up on it.

Are you a liar?
people wanted to vote him over planning a future lynch, and mentioning a CC - - I kicked up a fuss about the CC business and implicated Emp - - I shared the same view as Zwet on CC's and saw nothing wrong- and after that:

Isn't he [Zwet] saying that he would lynch Dust if the scum didn't NK him? Which would suggest Dust is scum and

make perfect sense?

And you said you didn't understand the first paragraph - reread post 300-302

You're still not coming across very town like to me - you're unclear and inaccurate

Hence I feel Hewitt is failing to say anything relevent - - he's

voting you for making a statement that all of us are more or less on the same page with

(the idea that Dust not being NK'd as very suspicious)

Yet between posts 300-302, he agreed with Ace that if Dust were alive tomorrow, he would want a CC.

Kind of a hypocrisy, not very sensible, and I feel like Hewitt is talking out of his hat so he can get out of the lurker stage.

Which he has yet to do for me.

Ace & Hewitt, not looking too hot.

Yeah, but if Dust DOES survive tonight,

a lynch would be greatly considered.

We would run the risk of having a mislynch today - a towny killed tonights - and then us lynching someone Dust points to tomorrow? What if it's another towny and after NK2 we're left with 4 innocents dead?

Hence I don't think it's reason enough to L-1 him

Do you understand that unlike you, I recognize INACCURACY - -

so either you're a lying hypocrite, or you should take some deep and slow breaths before you type like an attention deprived child about things you don't seem to understand.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**Keep this in mind.

Picture my hate for you.

I told you that thinking I weren't town would be stupid. That thinking I were a villain would make you WRONG again.

Is it really that hard to believe me? To believe that I look forward to gloating in your face at the endgame about how terrible you are at this game? How you were early on two town wagons with passion, and furthermore were wrong about me just as you lost your town in our previous game for being wrong about me then? Count the "wrongs" Dej.

I want you to picture it. The town (whether win or lose). I want you to picture me laughing at you in the endgame.

I would accept I'm town already, and save the humiliation, or clean up your scum hunting. You dont' ask questions to scum hunt, you feed off of other people's thoughts on other players, and now that you're pressed against a wall and caught, you're lashing out more than ever and are hiding behind childish antics and arguments with me.

Nobody on this forum is illogical enough to invest a single moment in your silly statements about me being a liar and manipulating this town. I've passionately pushed my points and ideas despite the hatred and suspicions of virtually everyone here. I don't have any major leadership sway of any kind and I've risked my life in this town trying to save it from people like you with theories like mine.

Clean up your act - get off my case - and try actually playing the game (hint - questions and interrogating are a good place to start - - oh, and thinking for yourself based on observations) - -

[AA23]

I would, but

I'm trying to get past how retarded you are. Guess it's a

family thing

.

Trust me, that's much more distracting. Don't get me wrong though,

it hasn't completely gotten you yet because you're still able to form coherent sentences, granted I've never actually seen a

retards writing ability but I can't imagine it's very good.

Oh boy,

that was fun.

I wasn't too harsh was I?

It's official though, you're worse that Empking. You're like Empking if he had a giant ego and a

retarded family member.

I'll admit though, it was enjoyable reading that last bit of your post, I just couldn't get the smile off my face.

That's too far. How dare you.

[AA23]

It's a game Dej - - you don't have to be a sore loser about it.



Town:
*I'm taking a couple of days to cool off and am not sure about coming back.

[AA23]

Vote: Sotty7

with additional suspicion of being "werewolf"

For Mix's questionable and scummy actions
For parallel investigations to a now known wolf (Mix)
And for an ex-wolf's emotional response to accusations on his potential partner (and himself).

Hopefull this will clear up nightkills.

[AA23]

It's not a surprise, in all fairness for you to feel the play of the day is to lynch Emp instead of you.

But fair is fair - there's no harm in another re-read. My feeling is to stay with you, though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Now that we know Dej's allignment, I would like to make the statement that he indeed got emotional and aggressive when his faction was comprimised or suspected. This can now be applied to a re-read.

In your re-read, note his reaction to new players bringing him up or not agreeing with his thoughts and statements - - I can find multiple quotes where he got snippy at someone. He made a pattern of it.

That being said - - Note that his aggression toward me only began when I started my case toward Mix. Everything before that was neutral for the most part - even when I made cases on Emp and Dust. Whether he agreed or disagreed, it was all low scale - - but the moment I started on Mix, he was aggressive, and the moment I conntected him to mix, AND the allignment of "wolf" he went off.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

He admitted that Mix had a scummy action, yet chose to ignore it.

In a game where we have multiple suspicions based on behavior and theoretical evidence, actual scumtells and scum actions are

very valuable

. It seems odd that he would ignore it. It's one thing to not want to vote or lynch someone for it, but to acknowledge a scum action, agree it's scummy, and not leave it at that? To go do far as to be the one most

against

the wagon? To become agressive to the person leading it?

I think this is simple, more so, than looking for who he ever tried to distance himself from. He was parallel to Mix in following leads, he got aggressive and emotional when he and Mix were threatened, and as for Emp:

he indeed not only suspected him at one time, but he had a vote on him and included him in his own hypothetical endgame team speculations.

Mix however, was not included in this.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm also concerned about the NK.

A smart wolf would have tried to discredit me and proved my hypothesis to have an inconsistency to counter the check mark from Dej's allignment.

what's everyone's thought on the NK?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

[AA23]

I'm just reading too much into that then - I ee what you mean.

All in all I suppose I just feel safe with my vote on Sotty.

[AA23]

I think that Emp is being characteristically Emp and Mix(Sotty) is werewolf.

Wolves and Mafia win when either one represets at least half of the whole town.

Day 4

We currently have 6 people

(3 town, two mafia, one wolf)

If Mafia

mislynches

Emp, we will be in twighlight with

2 Town, 2 Mafia, one wolf

Night 5

Wolf choosing

not to NK

will result in the mafiascum starting the next day with
===============================================
Outcome 1 (no NK)
1 Town, 2 Mafia, 1 wolf
"Oh, it wasn't Emp? Woops. Must be Mix(Sotty) after all!!!! Let's get him!"

- Mafiascum wins. The will make up at least half the town
===========================================
Outcome 2 (NK hits a mafiascum)
2 Town, 1 Mafia, 1 Wolf
Mafia STILL say "Must be Mix/Sotty after all!" and the wolf is gone.

= Day 6, 2 Town, 1 Mafia, lylo

============================================
Outcome 3 (NK hits a town)
1 Town, 1 Mafia, 1 Werewolf
Mafia STILL would say "Must be Mix/Sotty after all!" and lynch him

Mafiascum win.
============================================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




.......................................................................................................
I've posted the above so you can all see what the odds are of town surviving a mislynch on Emp.

If we mislynch Emp instead of going for Mix/Sotty, we will have to trust that the Wolf will

definately hit scum

with his NK - - otherwise we are going to be in lylo.

So to summarize - - Mislynching Emp results in three possibilities based on the Wolf's actions:

A no NK = Scum win

A town NK = Scum win

A scum NK = Lylo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I'm right about Mix/Sotty, we will have NO MORE NK's - and we will be outnumbering the scum.

I believe the best course of action is to lynch Mix/Sotty. The case is stronger.

Emp is being characteristic, and his guilt is being defined by what a known wolf did NOT do to him?

That known wolf ignored a scummy player - Mix - - that counts for something more so than him not playing hard enough against Emp.

I feel very strongly about this. Mafiascum are the only people who will benefit from the lynching of Emp over Mix/Sotty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mix is higher priority than Emp.
Mix had done more scummy things than Emp.
Mix/Sotty also had an noteworthy relationship with Dej.

Confirm Vote: Sotty7

[AA23]

EBWOP "outcome 1" - town number 2

[AA23]

Sotty - - while I'm not surprised at your current gameplay given the circumstances there two important things to consider.

1. The "dej + AA debacle" - - I want to put that behind us. If there's something tangable and helpful to the greater good of the town that can be derived from it, naturally it can be mentioned - - but I'd prefer it to be a dead issue otherwise so's not to stir uneccessary and pointless conversation.

2. You agree with what I've said in the post (scenario wise) and only disagree with the people involved (understandably and bias since you're one of them).

So yes - - the post goes into detail of what will happen in a mislynch.

I'm am more than confident that you are a villain, I feel strongly you are Dej's partner (based on his aggressive behavior toward the very idea of lynching you/Mix) and you (Mix) should have been lynched sooner.

You have been a suspicious variable for far too long.

There is no new evidence needed (though it's welcomed) - - what I'm saying is that no justice has been brought to you (Mix) for PAST evidence, past SCUMMY evidence - - and no PRESENT evidence suggests anyone else is a better candidate than you.

I trust everyone will consider what the mislynch will cost for this town - and I trust they will vote you.

[AA23]

I respect your position and you're entitled to it - - I unfortunately would need something more substantial to change my position.

Right now, I'm targetting Sotty with more tangable evidence attached to educated reasoning and logical application (basically, existing "hard" evidece starting with the dirty hammer, and me attaching it to theory)

Whereas the Emp notion is purely speculation and theory that is

void

of substantial evidence to the degree upon Sotty.

Dej was wolf. Mix was scummy. As a wolf, he would at the very least have humored or persued a lynching of such a suspect, no? It is indeed his purpose. It seems odd that a revealed wolf would

admit that there was substantial scummy evidence on a player

, yet not care for it at

all

(hence I believe that while you and I acknowledge Mix(Sotty)'s possibly villain identity, the odds of him being wolf are in my favor)

What is MAJORLY unfortunate right now is that for the first time, Scum does not have the same interest as the town. Scum need the wolves to not be lynched today, a mislynch is more valuable - especially when the wolf(sotty) is the perfect fall back quicklynch tomorrow AFTER today's mislynch.

Town can trust nobody. Scum can secure an easier win if wolf lasts one more day (refer to the outline above).

I cannot urge this enough - - - Mix(Sotty) is the more appropriate candidate for a lynch - his case is based on suspicion, theory, and actually actions that indicate not only villain, but through relationships, that he is wolf. Emp is purely thoughts and air - - speculation.

The votes need to be on Sotty. It's logical and most safe for town.

[AA23]

**Repetition!**

In addition to the Mix case which should be reason enough and outweigh thin air speculation on Emp*

Dej was a wolf.

Wolves want Mafia dead.

Dej admitted Mix was scummy (through his actions, the hammer)

Why would a wolf COMPLETELY ignore the wagon? Be against it, in fact? Be aggressive about it?

Would a wolf not work to persue the lynching of scum seeing as they have no NK's?

Not if the villain is his partner.

[AA23]

Alrighty, I'm V/LA until Sunday.

Clarification to my last post - second last line - (the no NK for scum is something I'm suggesting is appealing to a wolf - you can go all out trying to lynch Mafia, and commit to it - and you don't have to worry about them nabbing you at night)

I'm hoping nothing drastic happens before sunday - - do take your time! lol

[AA23]

Just got back from the cottage (tres burned.) - I'm relieved a lynch hasn't gone through but am not impressed that there's an L-1 with weak suspicions and les discussion.

In my quickread, some things jumped at me from more than one person.

People think Emp is wolf (seeing as the only case on hims is reliant on the Dej relationship).

While this, in my opinion, is a weaker case than suspicions on Mix(Sotty) - - I'm curious as to why:

1. Khamisa - - you've suggested I'm scum with Emp.

Make up your mind - Emp's lynch is 100% based on the mere idea that he can possibly be the wolf partner (all being baed on Dej)- - otherwise there is no case on him - - what evidence is there that he is mafia scum? That I am? That we are together?

I find that suspicious of you - - it reads that you're hungry for a lynch instead of the RIGHT lynch - the one that will help town. Are you in a rush, Khamisa?

*Note: Dej was going to be taken care of with or without the request on the board. Don't let yourselves think I hadn't sent out PM's to have actions taken in response to what he did*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thesp states that he believes I'm town.

While I trust other people share the sentiment or accept the idea to an extent, it also makes me stress my point: I'm not being malicious saying Mix(Sotty) has to go.

The Mix case was valid and based on ACTIONS taken - - this is a person who DID something scummy (that everyone at one time has acknowledged) and not only dug themselves a hole, but abandoned the game all together.

I don't believe Sotty would have ever voted Dej and I believe that Dej (who acknowledged the validity of my case) was never going to vote Sotty.

Emp is guilty of being fragmented in text and useless to the town at best - - but I see NO evidence of him truly being wolf - - - this is entirely speculation and I've seen nobody present actually quote worthy evidence.

There is no quote worthy evidence - - Anything to be pulled up is 100% speculation on Dej's state of mind.

What Mafia will now rely on is Emp digging a hole.

There is suspicion on Emp (no case, no evidence, just suspicion, speculation, and variables) and these things are in no way good enough to lynch somone, let alone outweigh the Mix(Sotty) case - - - -

In light of this, The Mafia, unable to rely on such weak reasoning behind the wagon, must rely on Emp being incapable of defending himself.

It's a catch 22 - - How can one defend themselves against nothing but opinions and speculation? How can he defend zero evidence?

The villains will take advantage of his short and distant play - - so they can have the mislynch that puts the odds in their favor.
----------------------------------------------------
You know from my repetition that there is more than enough quotable evidence on Mix, you know how he left this game, you know how poorly he handled the debrief on his scummy hammer, you know everyone in this game has at one time or another agreed with the validity of the suspicions and the scummy nature of his actions - and you know that we never saw any true hunting/interactions between Mix and Dej (yet they both shared interests in the same people at the same time and always left eachother out of pairing speculations)

The Mix(Sotty) case is stronger.

And as I have expressed in detail what the Emp case really is - - either prove me wrong with your evidence, or rethink what you're doing to the town.

Mix(Sotty) - - stronger, more valid case.
Emp - - weak, speculations based on unqualified opinions on Dej's state of mind, no quoted evidence, no questions directed to the non-existent evidence, just a bunch of people taking advantage of Emp's playstyle by making him seem like scum while he is incapable of defending himself (against nothing!).

This isn't complicated - This is accurate - - and I believe that in what will be a very long process to have the lynch moved to Sotty, the scum will reveal themselves.

(not to say I'm not on to you guys alread )

** I'd like to see the Emp case with included evidence that is quote based and not based on speculation - - - and heck, lets see it from everyone.

After all - - you just pust someone at L-1.

Surely, caring about the town at this crucial and important voting time, you all have a case.....right?

[AA23]

@ Thesp - - no worries, but I would still like to see the evidence I asked for just so I can better understand where you're coming from and be fair**

@ Hewitt - - You agreed to all the points I hoped many would, it sounds like you're only held back by "Dej/Emp relationship"

You'll notice in a re-read that I dropped that topic when Percy proved it wrong - - Dej had indeed been more than characteristic with Emp - - he only later had little time to address Emp or ANYONE for that matter because he was solely focused on the bickering with me - - - which would make sense, I was not only wagoning against Mix(Sotty) who he never once voted, suspected, admitted did something scummy yet continued to ignore, yet seemed to share the same mindset when scum hunting - - - but lost his cool even futher when I went to connecting him to his partner and having them both in my sights.

If anything, he was being characteristic Dej with Emp, and uncharacteristically aggressive and ignorant when confronted/or suspected of.

-------------------------------------

We're in an important voting stage - we can't afford to prefer thin, evident-less, opinionated cases over admittedly stronger ones.

Mix(Sotty) has to go.

[AA23]

Every circumstance is different, and in the matter of Dej's potential partner, I believe there was more of a variation to A - - -

It's not a matter of what scum would do, it's a matter of what people have done. These aren't machines, and Dej as a person got too emotionally unsettled, negatively invested, and agressive - - especially with suspicion on him and even more so when connected to Mix(Sotty).
-----------

Thesp, did you manufacture that case on Emp yet or did I miss it in your "sit back and hope Emp digs a hole by saying something weird" tactic?

I'd like to better understand your position - perhaps our difference of opinions can be easily balanced when we look at the two cases side by side. The Mix/Sotty one has been exhausted with my repetition and we are all familiar with it, I'd like to hold it next to the Emp evidence.

And I once again state - that evidence is hopefully quotable actions and not soley based on opinions and unqualified interpretations in an attempt to fit the man to the theory.

Take your time!

*Everyone else - I think there is enough information to digest at this point. Can everyone find time to lay out the a solid case on Emp to back up any votes?

Otherwise, I'd like to see more deserved conversation and attention brought to the Mix(Sotty) case.

[AA23]

I'm suggesting I'd like to see it laid out with more support than theoretical variables.

Mix had a genuinely scummy action against him - - Everyone acknowledged it - he failed to defend it - and Dej, a proven wolf, also admitted it was scummy yet ignored it and got aggressive about the wagon, and further agressive about being paired to him.

I think that Dej tried to keep Mix neutral/ignored for the majority of his days and uncharacteristically maintained him in the clear with pursed lips and ignorantly shielded eyes.

I did my homework on Dej's meta as well - - not only was Percy correct in saying that his relationship with Emp was a null tell (which it is) - - If one looks further, you will see it is uncharacteristic for Dej to "ignore" (for lack of a better word) a player in a game.

You don't find it odd that an emotional and aggressive wolf would admit that someone did something scummy and let it SLIDE - - wouldn't the wolf want to persue that person and have them lynched? Make them a NK candidate? Oh wait. Maybe it was indeed scummy, but a different kind of scum - the kind of scum he wouldn't attack being a wolf - - answer - Mix(Sotty) is wolf.

And I indeed picked "A" out of yoru scenarios - but you have to remember that the game isn't so clean cut - - you're no authority figure like the mod, and you can't suggest that "A" and "B" were the only approaches a scum could have to the game - that's manipulation on your part.

So what's the Emp case?

So far it's "Emp is Dej's partner. The evidence? His interactions with Dej"

That evidence is a null tell as was brought up last day by Percy - I then agreed with it.

I think basing a case on something that is 50/50 - a variable - a suggested "null" tell - is weak.

or at least weaker than the case on a person we have ALL said did something SCUMMY.

You're really working for this Thesp, but I'm truly confident in my endgame theory at this point - I'm sure Mix is wolf and I'm confident you are mafiascum.

You know Thesp, for someone that heavily considered the Mix wagon, hopped on it now and then, discussed it, voted for it top of the day regardless of the replacements response - - you're quick to dismiss it.

You put all that time and consideration into Mix, and now that the person I suggested to be his partner is found out, it doesn't seal the deal for you?

Ah yes - because you've realized at this time how much a mislynch will benefit you.
--------------------------------
That's what I've taken away from this.

I am MORE THAN HAPPY to look at your case and discuss it - but you seem to want to dance and be evasive.

just lay it out for me please - I'm totally serious and I'm not loading anything or am trying to make you look stupid - I genuinely want to see the case.

eg. "I'm voting Emp for : (reasons)
These are supported through these quotes/actions
etc.
---------------------------

@Thesp - please do respond to my query. Why so much investment in the Mix case only to abandon it when he is connected to Dej (suspected). Did persuing the wagon seem like a cold trail when an easy mislynch on Emp came up?

@Everyone. The Mix(sotty) case is stronger simply for being existent. Please, post your evidence and your case so we can compare them - otherwise, you are irresponsibly risking a mislynch while exchanging an agreeably scum case (mix) for SUSPICIONS and VARIABLE SPECULATION.
-----------------------

We can avoid this mislynch and win.

[AA23]

We're all right* not just me. At one point or another we've given the Mix(Sotty) case the attention it deserved, it's just been a wild couple of days and has rattled the cage is all.

@Thesp - I don't mean to press, by the way. I want you to know I'm serious about wanting to read that Emp case - I'm not setting you up so I can ridicule it.

[AA23]

Also, Emp - if at this time you find Mix a likely candidate for a more appropriate lynch to for this day, your vote would put him at L-1 (same as you) and it would simply be a matter of a single person giving more time and thought to this process long enough for a switch that will hammer Mix(Sotty), a likely scum partner to Dej.

[AA23]

Vote Count

Mixologist 4 - AA23, AshMC1984, hewitt, Khamisa
AceMarksman 3 - Mixologist, Percy, dejkha
AA23 1 - Empking

with 10 alive it is 6 to lynch so Mixologist is -2

Me, Ash, Hewitt, Khamisa,

I will put a

Vote: Sotty

down as well. At the moment, I think AA's case needs better answers than the ones that were initially provided/

Me, Ash, Hewitt, Khamisa, Percy

Thanks for your contribution, Sotty7.

Vote: Sotty7.

Me, Ash, Hewitt, Khamisa, Percy, Thesp

Scort: You and AA23

Vote: AA23

Me, Ash, Hewitt, Khamisa, Percy, Thesp, Emp (who acknowledged he felt we were both, however voted me - I'm waiting to hear back to see if that's changed)

Mixologist/Sotty7

Well AA is right. There is nothing I can say to give you all any insight into Mix's thought process. On reading the game

I agree the hammer was scummy. It made me

wince

as I read it. It did

come seemingly from nowhere

. The best I can say now knowing that Mix is a townie, is that he really did believe Zwet was scum and thought the hammer would prove as much. Like you have been saying (over and over and over again) AA,

the hammer was bad

. If Mix was scum he didn't do a good job trying to blend in with it did he? All I can reason is that he thought the flip would truly justify the action.

Sadly it didn't

.

Sotty, your only defense for a scummy player you winced at was wifom and an appeal to emotion with subtle tones of a town claim.

Me, Ash, Hewitt, Khamisa, Percy, Thesp, Emp, Sotty

In addition to everyone having already agreed with this case being valid, substantial, and worth persuing, Dej, a wolf, acknowledged the evidence as well

Mix hammered,

then

lied

and only seems to be

lurking

at this moment.

1. Only that

the hammer was a scummy thing to do

], but I didn't feel like it was anything to make a big deal out of.
2. Not for the reasons you do. Possibly if something else came up.
3. You are

correct, I wanted

nothing

to do with the Mix wagon, for reasons you presented.

While

Mix made a scummy hammer

, I'll let Sotty give his thoughts on the game and take it from there.

For now,

Vote: Hewitt

Dej was passionate about calling people liars. His definition of a lie was huge and he dropped that word like crazy - he called people liars so much it made me sick to read the word - - that guy was NOT cool with lying (or at least put that front on)

1. Isn't it odd that he would acknowledge Mix's hammer as scummy, dirty? That he would admit Mix lied? That he would note Mix lurking, and not

persue

it? He admittedly stated he wanted nothing to do with the wagon - - - -

This is a Wolf being opposed to the wagon on his partner

2. Percy pointed out that Dej was in fact being characteristic with Emp. He was! He acknowledged Emp, he degrated him, he included him in pair suspicions.

He is even quoted in my above evidence to have interest in only keeping Emp around "to get rid of" - - a mislynch, an easy kill - - Dej proved he was only interested in lynches more so than scum, just as I suspected, and it was made concrete when he flipped Villain.

3. Dej also persued Hewitt. He did so top of the day. I don't think Emp or Hewitt are his partners.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Me, Ash, Hewitt, Khamisa, Percy, Thesp, Emp, Sotty, Dej

All the people who have supported the Mix/Sotty lynch, wagon, or evidence (by agreeing it's validity)

This is enough for us to confidently state that Mix(Sotty) is a villain.

Applying this to known allingments.

Ash - Mafiascum - liked the Mix wagon and made mention of it multiple times

Scum wouldn't hunt their own.
Dej and Ash - Mafiascum and a Wolf - both addressed Hewitt. I don't think he's villain.

That, hand in hand with Dej's position, would suggest Mix(Sotty) is indeed

wolf

----------------------------------------------

***This is why I feel the Mix(Sotty) case is still alive and worth persuing. I think that only mafiascum are interested in a mislynch for the day (proven in my early scenario post)*****

@Emp - Does this case do anything for your current vote on me?

[AA23]

Posted same time as Emp.

I believe Mix(Sotty) is L-1

It will take either Khamisa or Thesp, the two possible scum (and most strongly in my opinion, Thesp) to switch their vote.

This will eliminate our NK's and we will be left outnumbering scum by one which will afford us more time, and we will have a prime Scum suspect to investigate tomorrow

[AA23]

Thought Emp changed his vote instead of just removing it - -

And why open your post with "Still haven't answered my question, though" when confronted with yet again more appeals to emotion? Can you not defend yourself with a decent offense on who you believe to be the last wolf? I believe that's because there is no better case - nobody seems to want to lay one out (especially when holding it next to the one on you and Mix) and after post 841, why would they?

Your only defense has been (paraphrased, and not to be rude) "Guys, I totally agree that Mix was scummy as heck, but I can tell you he's innocent. Why? Because I know his role (winky).....I know his role, guys (winky blinky)"

You're making statements about how screwed we are if you're gone, and how Hewitt is setting me up for an easy lynch tomorrow (which doesn't make sense seeing as they would immediately go for a freeby on Emp - irresponsibly - for the win) I think you're just trying to incriminate Hewitt with that statement to scare him off your wagon.

Try at least defending yourself, and since you can't defend Mix, why not prove the guilt of who you feel is the true culprit - because all I'm seeing is one strong case being challenged by the person it's going to kill, and the mafiascum who want to save it for one more day.

Emp plays a tricky game of mafia, because whether he knows it or not, he always attracts scum - without fail - every time. Dej was a wolf that proved he indeed wanted easy lynches - - then he flat out said he was saving Emp for later (hello??)

So that rules him out as wolf for me, and Hewitt is ruled out as wolf because Dej persued him as well -

Ash was mafiascum and he liked the Mix wagon a lot - meaning that Mix(you) aren't mafiascum.

So if you were looked at as a

villain

by:
Everyone in this game (including you)
A proven Mafia Scum (who wanted you lynched)
A proven Wolf (who acknowledged Mix's lies, lurking, and dirty hammer and

didn't

want you lynched).

Does that not point to you and everyone else that you're more likely scum than Hewitt and Emp? Having everyone suspect you, mafia want you dead, and wolf buddy want you alive?

And Emp, being the scumtool at this time for an easy lynch - he would be the obvious choice for a lynch tomorrow if something fell through today - not me. I think you just said it would be me to scare hewitt off your vote.

Scare tactics and emotional appeals won't work.

Defend - or display your offense clear and concise on another player. Those are two understandable approaches.

But I think the case is speaking for itself at this point.

[AA23]

Emp - if the evidence is enough for you and the school of thought seems appropriate, I'd like to move things forward and hope to see your vote move to Sotty.

Then, as I mentioned before - it will require a single person to move from one wagon to the other (potentially a scum sucking up the lost opportunity at a mislynch)

Whichever way THAT one turns out, I'm confident Thesp is Mafiascum.

[AA23]

I would have found it odd that someone would suspect the person they replaced to begin with (followed by zero defense, WIFOM, and pleas to emotion)

What else is odd is that you seem to have taken away/learned nothing from everything that has been posted and spread out. There were numerous points and observations.

In fact - in addition to the observations, lay outs, and explanations - you seem to have ignored my request for people to help clarify the "Emp" case (which at this time isn't seeming existent past speculation).

Hell - lets add that third level of what's "odd" - is there a reason after all there was to read, digest, think about, and respond to, you've come back with pretty much nothing? Including your detailed explanation to why your vote is still there?

Please - do tell us (once again, with examples, quotes, and stronger evidence than mine) what the Emp case

IS

- - so far it's speculation and a scum tool.

Unless you need to buy yourself more time by wasting everyone elses with empty posts like your latest.

[AA23]

Sotty - during your reread, you can notice Dej's characteristic behavior and attention toward Dej, as well as him including Emp and Hewitt in scum pair suggestions

Then you can notice him having little to nothing to do with Mix (except for their similar patterns in hunting. Hm)
----------------------
Khamisa - since Sotty is indeed not lynched, where is your vote now?

This lynch will be informative.

[AA23]

EBWOP - Dej toward Emp - -

And it is there

[AA23]

You're still being really vague and general.

It almost seems intentional.

Are you on the fence or something? If they're equally informative, your single voe switch will put us into the next day.

I figured there would be a lull.

The only people not on the wagon is the wolf it will kill, and the two probable mafiascum.

definately a lull ahead.

[AA23]

It's not solely official steps like voting and Fosing.

It's about attention to another person, interactions, pairing suspicions etc.

[AA23]

I maintain that I feel Dej isn't partners with Hewitt or Emp.

And it wa Dej who was all over saying hewitt was a villain on D2 - - I think it's a bit of a stretch on your part to say that to me.

I felt VERY strong that Thesp is Mafia scum, but didn't want to automatically assume that Khamisa was his partner just because heh appened to be the second person with him on the opposing wagon, the likely mislynch, the scum tool - - but at this point, it's seeming like e is.

This lull is going to last a heck of a long time.

We have two potential Mafiascum wo want a mislynch not posting as much, or like Kamisa, not SAYING as much - it all feels very generic and "safe".

And we have the person who's life in the game is at stake working hard which is to be expected - - it's only natural.

It feels like a stalemate. It'll take a swtichover to this wagon to end the wolves and the day.

[AA23]

AA this logic doesn't work. You think everyone off my wagon is scum, but why would scum want to save a wolf? That makes no sense. Scum want the wolf dead just as much as anyone. You are trying to pressure people to jump onto the wagon with you by throwing weak suspicion over them all.

It's scummy.

Why would they want to save a wolf?

That has been explained in detail, Sotty, and everyone, including you, agreed with post 803

you actually acknowledged it - now you're magically against it and it's bad logic because your life is further at stake.

The answer to your question is in 803 - - that's wy mafiascum would have wanted you alive one more night.

Dej went for Hewitt and I don't think they're partners, Dej turned out to be characteristic with Emp after all and I don't think they're partners - - why D2 did e go for Hewitt over Emp? Dej has said it himself - He goes for the wagons he feels he'll have help on (wich is scummy, but w/e).

Everything as fallen into place, makes sense, and works.

The problem is this stalemate - - It was a mistake on my part to reveal two much about wat I felt the Mafiascum were up to because for me, yeah they're Thesp and likely Khamisa - - and now one of them have to suck it up and hammer you to end this day, but it will most certainly risk their lives tomorrow.

Until then - stalemate. We have potential scum, Khamisa not really feeding the fire very much - very general and on the fence attitudes with a vote not moving - Kham is posting to be present it would seem.

Thesp is in my book as scum and I haven't seen much of him, but he could be busy/ smart enough to know when to let things roll - which he's shown in the past.

And you? Your head is on the chopping block, it's to be understood by all of us that you'll offer a million thoughts and alternatives. I think you've played a killer game thus far.

It's definately not over and nothing is written in stone. Just a lull, really.

Not a fan of lulls.

[AA23]

you make an early point about how Dej acknowledges Hewitts scumplay - - now, in addition to that, Dej also voted him - he started the day off wanting him to go down.

Isn't it odd that he would do that for Hewitt (who's scum evidence is null, it's based on activity and broad interpretation) - - - and not Mix?

He flat out (and repeatedly) acknowledged Mix's lurking, lying, and scum hammer - - and did nothing.

I think he did noting because it was his partner - - you're only making that point stronger.

[AA23]

And all your evidence regarding me aparently "gunning for Hewitt" is surrounding the Dust/Zwet debacle - - you're going back way early where we knew even less.

If you can find were I went for Hewitt as strong as you're desperately trying to depict AFTER Mix made te scummy hammer (were I feel substantial scumunting began for me) - - do tell us.

Oterwise, I think you're flooding filler on the board right now.

post 803 holds true - Wolf is priority - I believe you are the wolf.

Now we just need a mafiascum to jump ship onto our wagon.

[AA23]

You've one again repeated a point I addressed - - it was about behavior, interaction, and acknowledgement in addition to FoS's and votes - - - Who Dej named as suspicious or worthy of interrogation wasn't directed to or carried out through official fos's or votes.

Dej has voted Emp, was characteristic toward him - - Dej voted Hewitt top of D2

We should talk about how people have reacted to the claim, which AA has been doing a pretty good job of.

Scum Read:

Ace - For trying to mislead the town into thinking Dust has used an apparent scum meta in multiple games whenever he was scum. This was proven as a lie when Ace said that this only happened once when he was later called on it. Reference to posts 152 to 154

Zwet - Obviously for trying to get a counterclaim. I'm thinking a

very likely werewolf.

Emp - Only loosely though, because of post 106 where he asks for a claim and tells people not to CC if he claims Seer. Like someone else said, he could've been communicating with a partner. That partner obviously being Dust.

I'd also say possible werewolf.

AshMC1984 - He's made 4 short game relevant posts out of the 172 that have been made. What's there to say? Lurking scum? He unvoted after Dusts claim (his vote remained there from the RVS and he apparently never got around to changing it) and votes Zwet for voting without good reasons and trying to get a CC. He, however, doesn't mention Ace, who had the same reason for voting Dust as Zwet.

Town/ No Read:

AA23 - AA has been seemed pretty town to me in the sense that he hasn't done anything scummy that I remember, and has been generally telling us all with good reasons, who could be scum on the wagon as well as providing different possibilities.

Percy - Hasn't done much of anything scummy, but at the same time, nothing much pro-town either.

Possible Scum Pairs

Zwet/ Ace Werewolfs (Most likely) - Supported in posts 152 and 154.

Ace/ Ash Mafia (Possible)- Ash ignores Ace's reason for voting Dust, but doesn't ignore Zwet, who used the same reasoning.

Emp/ Dust Werewolves - Emp asked Dust to claim and mentions how a Seer shouldn't CC should that be the claim. If this were the pairing, it could be for two reasons. He hints at Dust to claim Seer and it would also keep his partner alive while making it look like he's keeping the towns best interest in mind.

Hopefully, when people have time, we'll have more opinions.

Dej never put energy into Mix a single time in this, or after.

Dej tried to throw the wolf trail on townies it would seem, and not once acknowledge Mix (YOU) - his wolf partner.

------------------

He more than once admitted the "Scummy Mix Hammer" "Lies" "Lurking"

Given Dej's play in this game, and what he was willing to condemn other people for

Why do you suppose he never investigate Mix/you for those things?
Why no Fos?
Why no vote?
Why passionately be against the wagon (as he admitted)?

Because you're his partner.

The scum are only hurting themselves the longer they hold off on the inevitable and ignore obvious evidence.

It would be nice to get out of this lull, but there are too many fears on their side.

[AA23]

to clarify my opening statement - -

I've told you already - it's not soley about who he voted and fos'd - it's about behavior etc...

he ignored Mix and defended him/you by being passionately against killing you right to his death - -

Which would make sense if he were your partner.

And if you weren't partners?

Well - Dej showed just how noble and compassionate he was before he left us. I'm sure he wanted to be fair, and nice to you lmao lmao

[AA23]

@Sotty - You're once again picking and choosing what to pay attention to. I'm saying dind't day that post of Dej's alone was the basis of my point, I addressed that who he acknowleged and how, and that for the REST of his gameplay to FOLLOW, he was not only ignoring Mix's scumminess, he was defending him.

In addition to that - in the REST of his gameplay to FOLLOW - he indeed addressed Hewitt as well. My point still stands.

And you now say it was a "throw away" vote? - please, if you can't form a solid defense, or an understandable offense in another direction, or avoid wifom - - don't try to tell me the state of Dej's mind (unless you can prove it was "clearly a throw away vote").
------------
@Emp - True say. But at this time? I'd say mafiascum. They need to buy time, this is a very sensitive point in the game.

[AA23]

Kham - in an early post, I make it clear why understandably, Mafia were prioritizing a mislynch over a werewolf lynch today - - it makes the odds play in their favor VERY much. Now that it's been called out, they are stuck off the Mix wagon and need time to find their way on it without seeming like caught/obvious scum who are called out.

Thesp - - my final statement on Emp is that he is not partners with Dej. I feel their relationship was characteristic.
I also feel any case on him is theoretical and airy because I've yet to see any EVIDENCE brought up against him (the evidence I asked you for....) - - - It's a bunch of "I think" statements based on little to nothing - - whereas the Mix/Sotty case is based on the scumhammer and interaction with Dej. The scum hammer alone is hard evidence enough to outweigh Emp.

- And no, Thesp. I think that

Dej, Mix(Sotty) = Wolf

and you and Kham = Mafia

That's what it looks like to me right now. Not sure on Kham, but I'm almost positive on you (and considering the killing of the wolf today will eliminate NK's, and we'll only NEED one Mafia lynch to win, I don't NEED to be sure about your partner) - - once the Sotty(wolf) is put down, my vote goes to you.

[AA23]

Thesp - you're asking me to point out where Dejkha persued Emp with "any real sense of persuit" - -

I'm not qualified to say the sate of his mind, and I'm suspicious that you would stoop to a loaded question - - I felt they were characteristic because of his BEHAVIOR toward him - Not for persuit.

And it is YOU who have failed to address needed issues - like posting that evidence clearly on Emp. Still haven't forgotten about that.

Do you need more time?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

And for the cheap seats since clicking back is difficult - - Post 807 with the edit included

I think that Emp is being characteristically Emp and Mix(Sotty) is werewolf.

Wolves and Mafia win when either one represets at least half of the whole town.

Day 4

We currently have 6 people

(3 town, two mafia, one wolf)

If Mafia

mislynches

Emp, we will be in twighlight with

2 Town, 2 Mafia, one wolf

Night 5

Wolf choosing

not to NK

will result in the mafiascum starting the next day with
===============================================
Outcome 1 (no NK)
2 Town, 2 Mafia, 1 wolf
"Oh, it wasn't Emp? Woops. Must be Mix(Sotty) after all!!!! Let's get him!"

- Mafiascum wins. The will make up at least half the town
===========================================
Outcome 2 (NK hits a mafiascum)
2 Town, 1 Mafia, 1 Wolf
Mafia STILL say "Must be Mix/Sotty after all!" and the wolf is gone.

= Day 6, 2 Town, 1 Mafia, lylo

============================================
Outcome 3 (NK hits a town)
1 Town, 1 Mafia, 1 Werewolf
Mafia STILL would say "Must be Mix/Sotty after all!" and lynch him

Mafiascum win.
============================================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




.......................................................................................................
I've posted the above so you can all see what the odds are of town surviving a mislynch on Emp.

If we mislynch Emp instead of going for Mix/Sotty, we will have to trust that the Wolf will

definately hit scum

with his NK - - otherwise we are going to be in lylo.

So to summarize - - Mislynching Emp results in three possibilities based on the Wolf's actions:

A no NK = Scum win

A town NK = Scum win

A scum NK = Lylo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I'm right about Mix/Sotty, we will have NO MORE NK's - and we will be outnumbering the scum.

I believe the best course of action is to lynch Mix/Sotty. The case is stronger.

Emp is being characteristic, and his guilt is being defined by what a known wolf did NOT do to him?

That known wolf ignored a scummy player - Mix - - that counts for something more so than him not playing hard enough against Emp.

I feel very strongly about this. Mafiascum are the only people who will benefit from the lynching of Emp over Mix/Sotty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mix is higher priority than Emp.
Mix had done more scummy things than Emp.
Mix/Sotty also had a noteworthy relationship with Dej.

Confirm Vote: Sotty7

Mafia have better odds of winning with a mislynch.

I feel Mix(Sotty) is the best candidate and also as the strongest case against them.

Nothing crazy and out there about it - - it's an opinion based on events in the game, and a mathematical look at our circumstance.

I won't be moved on this - The town loses if we give in to ignoring what a mislynch will do while voting anyone other than Mix(Sotty)

[AA23]

Did anyone get around to answering those questions by the by?

In addition to you all posting your Emp case if it exists yet - - can you tell me:

Given how passionate Dej was about calling people "Liar" and using "Lurking" as a reason on his heavier wagons,

1. Why would Dej, more than once, acknowledge that Mix(Sotty) was

lurking, lying, and scummy for the hammer

yet do nothing about it?

Isn't that a little bit odd?
That he would be (as he SAID SO HIMSELF) - AGAINST the wagon?

Why defend, and hate on a wagon so much, yet acknowledge all of those things?

That didn't gain a vote, that didn't gain an FoS - it didn't lead to anything in BEHAVIOR (more importantly)*

Was Dej being nice, and trying to be fair? (was that characteristic of him?)

The real case is between Mix(Sotty) and Dej being wolf - - anything else at this point is a weak attempt to divert the town from a strong case/wagon.

Unless someone can PLEASE for crying out loud - post the EMP CASE.


*And Sotty - - saying "I proved you wrong" doesn't magically make it true - we all read this thread and follow.

And so far? Is the fact the NOBODY is posting a solid Emp case/Sotty defense proving me RIGHT (and thus you wrong?)

Because I see a whole lot of bashing for a straight forward case - and I'm thinking you have a whole lot of noting in your hand.
--------------------------------------------------

This game isn't about being right or wrong amongst other players - it's what instigates ego and fuels aggression -
I genuinely want to read the Emp case, and nobody wants to post it.

They just want to do this dance again : the one where they bash me and my case and hope the confusion helps everyone go "fuck it!" and do something stupid.

POST - YOUR - CASE - ALREADY

And I stress for the last time - It better be DAMN stronger than a wold being against a wagon of someone who Lied, Lurked, and has a Scum hammer on them (especially when that wolf passionately hated those things)

So please. Lets give it a read

[AA23]

wolf* EBWOP last sentence

[AA23]

Yeah Thesp - is it hard to answer?

Maybe we should try that cute little picture of the "banging a head on the wall"

--------
Awwwww - I'm sorry if you feel neglected when I don't answer LOADED QUESTIONS.

If I think something - Or have an opinion on a matter, I'll post it - I don't need you trying to babysit a loaded question when you ask me things like "how did you feel when Emp said you were bussing" - - Sorry, mate - it didn't raise any red flags for me, and there were more priorities.
----------

And there is no agreeing or disagreeing with post 807 - - you either see that hard fact or you do not.

A mislynch guaruntees Mafia either a definite win, or Lylo for town.

And you may read certain sentences and get the impression that I'm being condescending, but I'm reading paragraphs from you guys and get the impression that you're ignorant - - we can play the name game all day and it will get us nowhere - - -

Every opinion and action I've taken has been backed up and explained, repeated and defended - - I've yet to see you offer the Emp case.

maybe things can get less emotional and narrow minded if you guys would offer up INFORMATION and intellect.

WHERE - IS - THE - EMP - CASE

And no, Thesp - I will also not SPECULATE on his state of mind - nice job leading, though.

- - You agree it was odd that Dej acknowledged multiple times that Mix(Sotty) was lurking, lying, and scummy and did nothing - -

ELABORATE - WHY was it odd, Thesp?

And no - he didn't just want to take his time and be neutral - he was practically campaigning against that wagon and only admitted being against it when he cracked

He was protecting Mix/avoiding him/his case long enough before any townies were killed - this wasn't a recent issue, this was ongoing.

You're trying to manufacture a case out of Emp, when there is a perfectly sound and justified one on Mix(Sotty)
----------------------

And tunnelling? - Excuse me, but until I see the damn Emp case, this is the ONLY thing to look at! WHAT is stronger? WHAT is more substantial than ANYTHING I'll throw right back in your face for presenting?

THIS is the case.

Now stop bickering - and post the case! seriously! Is it DIFFICULT? The longer you go without doing it, the more you prove me right, hoss! Of course I feel more confident - -

Your lack of a better case shows you have NO leg to stand on to call mine unworthy of today's lynch.

Shut me up with your case (fingers crossed it's stronger, guys!!!!)

[AA23]

Thesp - that little edit of yours -

before you go looking rather silly: do you want to do the math on what happens if there is NO mislynch? If we DO lynch the werewolf?

Werewolf getting lynched means 3/2 town over scum tomorrow with no NK's.

Pretty good situation seeing as you're the runner up Mafiascum that I'm immediately voting.

[AA23]

This is the stalemate.

They want this - - - they want someone to get ansy and say "fuck it" and move to kill Emp or something to get a move on.

There is no stronger case! Nothing has been clearly stated - - nothing has been stronger than the Mix(Sotty) case - - the guy had a scummy hammer, embarrassed imself hypocritically, lied repeatedly, lurked, bailed, and was constantly defended by a wolf who PASSIONATELY

hated

(read that word again) HATED "lying", yet chose to not give a shit and insist on his innocence?

Thesp had a vote ready for Sotty without even giving a shit what he had to say for himself at the top of last day - - every person here has suspected him at one time or another - - hell, Sotty even admitted we have every reason to think what we think, and could only defend it with appeals to emotion and WIFOM.

I refuse to believe Thesp would go this whole game acting like he's logical and calculated, and suddenly throw away a case like this for something as weak as broad speculation on Emp - - he's striking me as VERY mafiascum.

So now we have 3 on an Emp wagon and need only one to come over.

Who will it be? Kham? The potential scum who's been playing it safe by popping by and posting little content now and again? Thesp, wo under a veil of fake calculation and intellect has in reality also played it safe and constantly redirects and dodges questions and attention from him? (The two mafiascum, in other words)

Or lastly Sotty. The person who would Die.

HMMMMMMMM - not easy.

Yeah. Stalemate.

[AA23]

Oh well that explains a lot, Thesp (not joking)

Dejkha made it clear on more than one occasion that he was

saving

the Emp lynch.

He further made it clear that he wouldn't start a wagon unless he felt he'd get support/people would hop on as well (he wanted easy wagons).
--------------------
There are quotations of him saying that if you need, but I assure you that's the reason he didn't full throttle it to Emp.

hence - he was still quite characteristic toward him and was only saving him as a tool for a mislynch.
---------------------

And winking about "even if you were mafia", how would killing sotty help you? - - The answer is that it wouldn't. Sotty is the remaining wolf. Having one more NK benefits the Mafia.

If we eliminate the NK, there is an inevitable lylo ahead.

If the NK is kept (as the mafia wants, through keeping the wolf, sotty, alive) - they not only have the same odds for a lylo (if mafia gets NK's) - but they have a greater percentage of flat out having the win in two other scenario's if a towny is lynched or there is no NK chosen.

Simply put - -

Mafia letting wolf die = one road to lylo

Mafia letting wolf live = NK on town/scum/no NK = 3 roads = lylo, mafia win, mafia win.

You're bettering your chances letting wolf live.

But in trying to do so - you've given yourself away as scum.

[AA23]

I feel that Empking is not the werewolf.

I feel werewolf is the priority lync for today.

All evidence strongly suggests that Mix(Sotty) is Dej's partner.

My vote stays on him.
------------------------------

Nice try with softening the blow for tomorrow. The thing that outted you as scum was the fact that you were against the wolf lynch (as mafia wants to be) - - I think you're tendering the deal - - I think you're trying to soften the platform so you can switch to the Sotty wagon with no consequence.

And you find it hard for me to assure you? Would it be easier for you to read, then? Because he said all of those things. He was saving Emp's lynch for later and only cared for a wagon that people would pile on/make easy.

Furthermore, if he's "saving" the wagon,

it looks like he wants to be

anti-Empking, without actually threatening Empking

. This fits perfectly into them being partners.

Dej was:

Anti- lying, lurking, scum

(seemingly, now that we know otherwise)

he admitted that Mix(Sotty) (the person everyone including you have suspected and voted for) was all of these things.

That would make him Anti-Mix(Sotty), no?

So wait....if Dej was Anti-Mix(Sotty)....and he never investigated him....and never voted him....and never voiced supsicions of him...and PASSIONATELY to his death defended and was against the wagon...

Well, oh my! thesp! In your own words: This fits perfectly into them being partners!!

[AA23]

There is no dodging the question for me - - Emp is not the wolf.

Today is a day to exhaust energy and all efforts in finding the wolf. If I had evidence suggesting Emp was scum, I would have presented it.
----------

And yes, you do strike me as scum no matter what at this point. The reason I'm banging my head against the wall is because scum have a better chance defending themselves tomorrow when the wolf is out of the way (IMO) - - - doing it today is tedious and risks hurting the town by letting Mix(Sotty) slip through our fingers yet again.

---------

And you need to make a decision on whether you think

distancing

is a valid point to determine Dej's partner - - you seem to like the idea when you attach it to Emp, and call me out on it being inconclusive when I attach it to Mix/Sotty.

Even without the distancing point - - I have more of a case. Mix(Sotty)'s guilt through scummy actions is more than enough to outweigh the Emp case.

I think the sotty lynch is the only way out of this debacle - - - I'm personally voting you tomorrow because I think you're mafia, but if you convince the majority it's someone else, by all means.

I just think that the battle between Sotty/Emp lynch was never really a battle at all - just a distraction to the inevitably stronger lynch (Sotty).

I feel very confident he's the wolf, Thesp - and if you can prove me wrong about you tomorrow, please do it, because I wouldn't mind believing you're town - - but the struggle to get you to see blunt reason like this? seeing Sotty as the obvious choice? It makes me nervous about you.

[AA23]

You seem to be missing every point being made and every observation stated.

I have nothing to determine he is definately town, I have nothing to determine he is definately scum - - I am only confident he is not wolf because Sotty is wolf - - and I am concerned about the wolf today.

If you indeed agree that it is important we get the wolf toay - - why is it that in addition to ignoring/avoiding the stronger case of Mix(Sotty) - you insist on hurting the town by distracting us?

You keep pushing this. You keep trying to turn this into a mafiascum hunt instead of a wolf hunt. I find that suspicious.

Who do you think is wolf and why?
What are your thoughts on the Sotty case being heavier and more SUBSTANTIAL than any other case that might be out there (as in, I haven't seen a valid, well organized, more substantial case yet)
What IS your position on using "distancing" as a valid point of evidence in finding Dej's partner? (you seem to flip flop to your own convenience)
Why agree wolf is priority and immediately avlid acknowledging the bulk of my posts in an effort to distract and draw attention to Emp and the idea of him being mafia?

**Are you so desperate to avoid the wolf lynch that you will try to fit Emp into any category of "lynchable material" you can?

Your entire "case" (which we STILL haven't seen) - is based on the idea that Emp is guilty by association/relationship to Dej, yes? That would make him Wolf, and that's the ONLY reason you're not even considering my stronger appeals about Sotty being more appropriate.

I think you know that Sotty flipping wolf will build town confidence in my theories, and therein kill you, and then boom - town wins.

So now you DEFINATELY can't have Sotty revealed as wolf. You need the benefit of the odds with a NK for one more night, you need me to not have town confidence - - so you try to now fit Emp from wolf, to scum?

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?

You're all over the place.

It's like you're scrambling.

Grasping at straws.

It won't last.

Try again, Thesp.

[AA23]

Thesp - why are you up in arms when Hewitt simply re-stated and agreed with what I've been saying all along?

That's the stalemate - - I was stupid and hot headed and let the mafia trap slip - - now we practically know the roles and are all staring at eachother in a stand off.


And

stop with your obvious and weak leading questions

you keep pushing this "What do you think of Sotty not hammering Emp"

Honestly - are you trying to SELL him to us now?

What do YOU think of Sotty not voting Dej? Or did you forget that exchange last day?

[AA23]

I concur - pretty sill statement.

And I have answered whether I think he's mafiascum - - there is no evidence for or against it.

And you seem to think Percy agrees you're scum. He has no evidence pointing to someone being more likely worth lynching/wolf than you, flip flops between thinking a wolf lynch is what mafia does/does not want, and doesn't have a vote on you.

It seems like a lot of bs flying around.

One second it's "Lets lynch Emp over Sotty, he's the wolf" (no evidence to back it up)

Claims the evidence on Emp is Dej's behavior toward him/distancing (which is applicable if not MORE SO to Dej's behavior/distancing toward Mix/Sotty)

Doesn't think Mafia value having the wolf around one more night

Agrees wolf lynch is priority

Poses leading questions in an effort to now paint Emp as mafiascum and not wolf (didn't have evidence the first time around, now he's trying to have me and others speculate and suppose how Emp can be mafia - - OBVIOUS attempts to distract and COMPLETELY contradicting the "understanding" that wolf lynch is PRIORITY)

Yeah - Sotty, I'd say you're trapped - - makes sense you would say it though - any future lurking would now be explained/understood (then again, this is a stalemate).

Thesp keeps demonstrating Mafiascum allignment in recent activity and ignorance to the inevitable and most appropriate lynch of you (Sotty). And what's brilliant is that when you are gone, we only need to lynch ONE mafia to win, and Thesp has taken care of that for us with himself being outed.

But all the cards are down really, it's a mexican standoff at this point.

Does he hop on to your wagon, hammer, and prove me right (thus hammering nails in his coffin when I motion for his lynch next day?)

Or does he stay on and hope someone gets bored and insecure? (though why would they - what's the alternative to this stronger and substantial case? A failed attempt at painting Emp as wolf and current weaker attempts to now paint him as mafiascum?)

*And Sotty - I gave Dej the attention he deserved and suspected him and acted on it - I made myself clear where he stood. You however, played it safe - do you not remember the conversation? You appealed to emotion just like Thesp with the "I'm in a lose/lose situation"

Nieter of you are! You're just saying that to play it safe - you would have only been in a lose/lose situation with ME - if you were truly innocent, it would have been neutral for the rest of the town.

Stalemate. Let's see how long it takes to break.

[AA23]

Sotty - your attempt right there to discredit is just sad.

You've

failed[/u

to present a solid case on anyone else and have now resorted to leading questions and hypothetical distractions.

Your "question" is genuinely useless to ask me. Do you think for one second I'm going to take my vote off of you? At this point, as long as you're in this game, my vote is on you because you're not town and need to go.

lol seriously - - if we want to point fingers to discredit, both you and Thesp are STILL avoiding every request to present a strong case on Emp lol

Will both of you guys post next and bring up a new distraction? A new "interesting thought" to distract? Or will you finally answer the simple question.

And once again, since my repetition does nothing for you guys - - It should be stronger than anything I can call out on the Mix/Sotty case.

[AA23]

And yes, it was Thesp I was referring to, not Percy - - his nae was in my head because I've been collecting quotations that contradict every statement you and Thesp have been trying to make/spin for the last two days.

I'm not moving on to your position on Dej since you seem to hope people have forgotten the details by now

[AA23]

Oh an by the way

@Hewitt -

In addition to Thesp (mafiascum) fialing to present a case on Emp, and Sotty (Wolf) failing to present a case on Emp (you know, the one where they try to suggest he's wolf) - - it would seem they are now trying to distract specific guilt and confuse who could be which rold (eg. Maybe Emp is not MAFIA - (with no proof) and if Emp flips something, would Sotty still be lynchable??)

To clarify:

Dej distanced himself and avoided the Sotty case to his dying day - he wanted nothing to do with it for reasons he would passionately kill ANYONE for. - he was a wolf.

Ash was for lynching Mix. He made that clear multiple times. - - he was a mafia scum.

Hm. So the Mix(Sotty) case tells us that he is most definately the appropriate lynch today because he has the most evidence against him for being a villain. And as for which villain? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

They're trying to distract and confuse. Thesp is caught in a corner and will scrounge for anything that a weak leading question and empty hypothetical questions will get him and Sotty is most admirably hanging in there before the inevitable.

Town needs to stand strong on this one.

By the way, Thesp - - your partner, Kham is lurking (after his brush with ACTIVELY lurking what with the high content posts dropped by now and then....that was sarcastic)
------------------

Keep dragging the stalemate out all you want, guys - it's just time you're losing and suspicions you're gaining for tomorrow

(like why the only three votes on Emp belong to the person that doesn't want to die on the other wagon, and two people (in a game with two mafia left) who will benefit from that person not dying, and are on a wagon with NO CASE)

HMMMM - who could be scum?

[AA23]

So let me get this straight -

Dej responding to me telling HIM to acknowledge the Mix(Sotty) case - - was him mentioning it and working with it?

Read that again to yourself.

You know how he acted out on "liars" and scum, and lurkers.

He acknowledged all of those points.

And all of those points he acknowledged, were what the case was about.

And he wanted NOTHING to do with it - he was AGAINST lynching for those reasons? Why?? Because he's your partner!

---------------------------------

Hey Sotty- why don't you REALLY post were Dej investigated you/Mix.

PLEASE do it, Sotty - lets see your skill in action.

Or are you about to prove me right further. Are you about to prove you've got a whole lot of nothing in your hand.

You've lost Sotty.

So go ahead - make my day - lets see Dej investigating - oh and PLEASE make it good.

Show me EVERY time he fos'd you, voted you, investigated you - - and I'll show you EVERY post he ever made on OTHER PEOPLE HE WASN'T PARTNERS WITH where he tried to

condemn

them for EVERY POINT ON YOUR CASE.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

L M F A O

-Show me where he fos'd you, voted you, and primarily and most importantly: INVESTIGATED YOU (and you better hope it's better stuff than what I'll pull up on him grilling other people)
-

notice everyone, how Sotty is still failing to present the Emp case lol...

Where is it Sotty?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dej condemned and lit torches against people he SUSPECTED of LYING.

He admitted you(Mix) lied, lurked, and had a SCUM ACTION against you and did nothing?

Have fun trying to save yourself, wolfy..

[AA23]

wow lol me scum?

Any proof?

I can see you put the same amount of energy in all your cases

lmao....adorable.

[AA23]

by the by - - I'll be cocky and and arrogant and annoying again until one of you scum

crack

and get us the hell out of this stalemate

[AA23]

And what does Ash have to do with anything?

Do you think being quizzical about my points will do anything for you?

A proven WOLF wanted you alive

A proven MAFIA wanted you dead

HMMM lol

[AA23]

Both scum and the wolf on trial (all of which are on the bench on the "lynch Emp with no case" wagon) are asking us to distract even further!

Surprise, surprise!

-------------

You know what sucks the fun out of a game? People doing more bitching than playing.

I've made it clear what would make things move forward/shut me up.

Where's the case, guys? Where is your Emp case? Where is your AA23 case? Where is your evidence past asking OTHER people to get it for you?
---------------

Mix(Sotty)
- Has

lying, lurking, and a

scummy hammer

against him
- Everyone in this game has suspected him, interrogated him, or voted him.
- A proven

Mafiascum

was all for lynching Mix(Sotty). He

supported

it early, and he supported it late (scum don't lynch their own)
- A proven

Werewolf

was

passionately against

lynching Mix(Sotty) regardless of the evidence and accusations being of the same nature of things he condemned other innocent players for. - Wolf didn't want to lynch his own...
- Is currently

distracting

today's town proceedings instead of

defending

herself with a substantial case elsewhere (which there is none)

Mix(Sotty) = WEREWOLF
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thesp opened up last day with an inevitable and bold vote on Sotty in what he admitted was a vote going on him no matter WHAT he said. - Thesp was all for it.

Today - Thesp isn't - - normally, something like that is easily explained/understandable - however, the circumstances are:

We have a substantial and solid case on an appropriate lynch for today.
Mafia

benefit

from the wolf staying alive one more night
Thesp diverts from immediately suspecting a prime suspect and begins searching for reason to lynch Emp?

There is at this time no case on Emp.
There is at this time no case on me.
There is no stroner case than the Mix(Sotty) case = and evidence suggests he is not only villain, but is in fact Werewolf (seeing as a provan mafia was all for killing him, and Dej was passionately against it).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

stalemate

[AA23]

You have no case on me being a wolf.

Mix(Sotty)
- Has

lying, lurking, and a

scummy hammer

against him
- Everyone in this game has suspected him, interrogated him, or voted him.
- A proven

Mafiascum

was all for lynching Mix(Sotty). He

supported

it early, and he supported it late (scum don't lynch their own)
- A proven

Werewolf

was

passionately against

lynching Mix(Sotty) regardless of the evidence and accusations being of the same nature of things he condemned other innocent players for. - Wolf didn't want to lynch his own...
- Is currently

distracting

today's town proceedings instead of

defending

herself with a substantial case elsewhere (which there is none)

Mix(Sotty) = WEREWOLF

AND you basically said that I can't be mafia.

So yeah.

So yeah.



**Your defense is what again? That me or Emp are villains?

LMFAO

You heard it guys - - the person on trial is pointing at other people without evidence - - we should take their word for it

[AA23]

What part of my case is bullshit exaclty?

I have quotations to back EVERY point up.

This is information that has been agreed on as substantial.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 townies

2 Scum

1 Wolf

...............
Emp, Me, Hewitt - Town

Thesp, Khamisa - Scum

Sotty - Wolf
................

TOWN (and sotty) - As I predicted, they are trying to buy time and divert attention.

If the deadline comes, Sotty dies (boom, no more wolves) but a townie dies with him, leaving us with:

2 Townies
2 Scum
..............
Scum make up half the town - Scum win.

Sotty - YOU'RE FRIGGIN CAUGHT - If you're indeed the wolf, I would say that you are losing the game but can at least steal the Mafiascum's victory by voting for yourself -

We would then start the next day with town outnumbering scum, and we would have a full steam ahead wagon on Thesp who is mafia - boom, mafia loses.
..................

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mod - Can we have an extention if we cut it close to deadline?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[AA23]

And Thesp - you're just calling out MORE of your bullshit saying you're

"Down with that"

when it comes to lynching both Sotty and Emp

there is NO CASE on Emp and you're okay with Sotty going down - - so why not vote him?

OH WAIT! because you're mafiascum and are okay with WINNING as a result of both players being lynched.

[AA23]

And Sotty - where have you shown ANYTHING

the case is in bold and organized - - a drunk CHILD can read it

you haven't connected a SINGLE THEORY to a quote or evidence - you're useless and are better off lurking, because now it's just getting sad

[AA23]

Mod - if you check this before your msgs, I have a PM your way with a proposition

[AA23]

Ugh... I can see not a lot of cracking is going to be done.

Fine - ignore me.

Apologies for any offenses or aggrevation, Sotty - I hoped a lynch would have come through by now.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets let it ride, then. I'll have more to say closer to deadline.

[AA23]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Khamisa - can you please post your notes on the Emp case? I'd like to better understand what has you on that wagon.

@Thesp - You're fine with two people dying. That's devastating to town right now. Since you've fine with eiher Sotty/Emp going down, can you please post your Emp notes (well organized). I'd like to see what has you sold on that wagon more than Sotty.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[AA23]

And Sotty - I'd rather lynch no townies today.

Why don't you help eliminate confusion further.

If you're going to take your vote off him to stop a double lynch, and you'd rather risk lynching a townie - - I'd say move that vote to yourself.

You'd clear your suspicions, shed much needed light on towns re-read for tomorrow, and we wouldn't be lynching other townies with less profile than you.

Unless of course you're just kissing our asses and trying to sound pro-town.

After all - live or die, town win is town win, Sotty.

[AA23]

Think about it.

You feel a towny death is better than two deaths and a mafia win, right? And you're talking like a lovable pro town person.

So really - how would your "towny" death not help us all? Makes perfect sense. I'm kind of asking you to put your money where your mouth is.

[AA23]

Hewitt, we have them on the run.

"Please try"

How many times have they tried for us, to put the Emp case down clearly?

They're buying time, and it looks to be in our favor

[AA23]

In addition to that question -

Who would want her to finally stop whining and just play the game?

Punch babies? Honestly?

**Everyone - isn't it a littlye

hypocritical

of Sotty to demand an Emp case from other people, after she's needed to be asked (with Thesp and Kham) NUMEROUS times to present it themselves?

It's like they want us to do the work FOR them lol

Is it difficult for you Sotty? Wouldn't you be saving your energy punching babies by just typing an itty bitty, easy to read, Emp case that you seem to think exists but obviously want to keep a secret? lol
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And since there will be no double lynch
And since deadline kills Sotty

No - Sotty(Wolf) doesn't have to vote herself to save the town, so that's there...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Hewitt -

It's insanity - - three villains in the game, and three people who are ignorant to the Mix(sotty) wagon, that not only remain on an Emp wagon, but

refuse

to clearly post their case and evidence - - and are now hasseling town to do it FOR them.

They want to buy time, instill doubt by making us think "what if it's not these people?" etc.

Lucky for us - there's no better evidence.

I think the only votes that need changing are the narrow minded scum who are clutching to Emp for dear life instead of voting the inevitable wolf, Sotty.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**This can be a clean and fun game. I would advise the villains to stop insulting our intelligence with this act of ignorance. Do you think we will continue to find you innocent on a wagon with no case?

It's like everything at this point is known and waiting to be admitted by you guys.

I mean seriously, Emp over Mix? We've been practically begging to know how and you guys turn out empty pockets

[AA23]

What's the Emp case?

[AA23]

@ Sotty -

Where's the Emp case?

@Thesp -

Where's the Emp case?

@Mod - Deadline indeed

[AA23]

@ Hewitt and Emp.

Thesp and Sotty must be entertained by simple magic tricks and shiny objects if they find it "odd" that you're on this wagon.

Kind of hypocritical since they refuse to show us the Emp case.

Must be SO good they want to keep it to themselves lol

[AA23]

@Sotty -
Can we see the Emp case?

@Thesp-
Can we see the Emp case?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[AA23]

@Hewitt -
Pretty awesome how many times they have to be asked for a case on a wagon they can't understand you not being on lol

Vote Count

Sotty7 3 - AA23, hewitt, Empking
Empking 3 - Khamisa, Thesp, Sotty7

Sotty7 is -1
Empking is -1

[AA23]

@ hewitt -

They're gettin' testy and lashing out a bit!

I think tomorrow what we'll note is how Thesp and Kham failed to post their Emp case. It will look worse when Sotty flips scum.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@ Sotty -
Can we see the Emp case?

@Thesp -
Can we see the Emp case?

@Khamisa-
Can we see the Emp case?
-----------

It would be easier to understand why nobody is hammering, and it will make it more clear to us why you think we shouldn't be voting Sotty.

[AA23]

Mix(Sotty)
- Has

lying, lurking, and a

scummy hammer

against him
- Everyone in this game has suspected him, interrogated him, or voted him.
- A proven

Mafiascum

was all for lynching Mix(Sotty). He

supported

it early, and he supported it late (scum don't lynch their own)
- A proven

Werewolf

was

passionately against

lynching Mix(Sotty) regardless of the evidence and accusations being of the same nature of things he condemned other innocent players for. - Wolf didn't want to lynch his own...
- Is currently

distracting

today's town proceedings instead of

defending

herself with a substantial case elsewhere (which there is none)

Mix(Sotty) = WEREWOLF

**There are quotations to support each one individually. The very quotations and points I've repeated over and over**
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Sotty -
Way to be hypocritical (GREAT job being ignorant to me lol). Now that you're paying attention:

Where's the Emp case?

@Thesp -
Where's the Emp case?

@Khamisa -
Where's the Emp case
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Hewitt -
How do you feel about their incompetence to even FAKE an Emp case at this point? Do you reckon they think they're being clever simply asking us the questions we ask them instead of giving us answers?

They're not even playing the game (not that they would do so very

well

given their situation! lol) - They're really just deflecting and ignoring.

Don't worry about wasting your time on them. In one week, Sotty is dead and our NK's are over with.

Then we can move on to lynching Thesp!

[AA23]

@ Khamisa -

You're giving ultimatums and conditions on me before you simply tell me the Emp case? - - is the case a secret or something? Dude - just post the case.

@ Thesp -
Sotty was a target, and a tangable one.

You insisted we should have looked elsewhere (mainly Emp) - - Do you understand why (without a case on him) I found this backward and scummy?

It's one thing to say - "hey, here's another case. Let's be open minded, responsible, and fair" - - it's another to say "Hey, sotp looking at the case you're on now and look at this one!....um...it's not entirely worth looking at yet, but it COULD be if we think of THESE things in THESE ways...yeah, that's how to do it"

In lamens terms - - it seemed that you were not trying to be open minded to other people so much as diverting attention from Sotty.

Hence I've asked for the Emp case so many times, and it's been like pulling teeth to get it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The vote and the case is clean for me. I have no better evidence before me to suggest it's someone else.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Sotty -
Sorry the game was a headache for you - I admire your gameplay thus far (you joined in with a lot to digest and worked with it) - - sorry to have annoyed or offended while trying to crack everyone out of the stalemate (I mean that).

[AA23]

Thesp - this in no way proves your innocence and I will never take my suspicion of you being Mafia away - - you're a villain in my books.

There was nothing wong with the Sotty lynch. The evidence was there, the defenses were weak, and there was no alternative case. On top of which, the players in action were ignorant and emotional - - this unfortunate towny death was a result of people not being able to handle the pressure and form a more appropriate case. I stand by that. The Sotty case was sound.

That having been said, I'll be back with the results of my re-read later - I'm V/LA for a couple days

[AA23]

Thesp - - you're telling me I should listen to what other people have to say.

The other people are two suspected scum, and the person who was targetted by the wagon - - and they had

nothing

to say.

I asked repeatedly for the Emp case, all I got was whining. It's one thing to say and preach, it is another to prove. This game required proof.
---------------------------------------------------

Vote:Emp

Dej played emotional and poorly. There is mostly null tells on Hewitt, and he was Dej's first pick top of one of the days, and Kham/Thesp strike me as mafiascum. In light of a seemingly more guilty and appropriate wolf (sotty) flipping town, it seems fitting to vote Emp seeing as the emotional and irresponsible Dej chose

not

to utility/easy lynch him sooner.

[AA23]

Thesp - I made it clear that I wouldn't partake in your leading questions.

Any point that you were attempting to prove with them would have been a 50/50 variable - - an opinion fueled by a bias or manipulated line of thought - - whereas I felt the Sotty case to be more substantial than a variable opinion.

The more substantial point you presented on Emp was the relationship with Dej. This was a double edged sword for you, because it also applied (somewhat more so) to Sotty.

In light of that, I needed to see a case. A case that had evidence, and no leading questions with 50/50 variables tied to the end of it, none of the crap where "he

could

be guilty

if

we look at it

this

way"

I felt Mix(Sotty) had guilt for the relationship with Dej, the scum hammer (primarily), the bailing out of this game, lying (that's a biggy), lurking, and lastly, A mafiascum wanted him dead, and a wolf wanted him alive.

It is you, Thesp, and everyone that was on the Emp wagon yesterday, that refused to answer my question - the important one - where your Emp case was.

It's easy to flood a board with quotations and bias interpretations in an effort to confuse people who don't want to sift through it and call it bs into thinking you actually have a point - - but lets not lose sight, Thesp:

Emp's guilt today is suggested by the innocence of what was yesterday's priority suspect - - the information from that lynch allows us to now regard those past variables in a different light.

If wolf is killed tonight - My vote will still go to you next as Mafiascum.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*this just dawned on me now, but I think we just lost.

If wolf gets hit tonight, tomorrow we're left with two town, two mafia - - mafia makes up half the town, they win.

If wolf is missed and a towny is killed - we lose

If wolf is missed and Emp is scum, we have to hope wolf kills scum in the night...I think. I don't know, like I said, jsut came to me now, but I think we lost.

Which would explain why Thesp and Kham couldn't make the Emp case yesterday.

I've had a long weekend and could be out of it but I think that's what's happened

[AA23]

**correction

2 town, 1 mafia

so yeah - my vote would go to you, Thesp.

Forgot about your buddy Kham dying.

[AA23]

That was pretty emotional.

Humor me with a clean cut list in bold of the Emp case points. It's such a simple and valid case as you seem to cry about - lets see the case you were certain of yesterday.

[AA23]

Vote: Thesp

[AA23]

I think that nobody plays a perfect game and there's always something to bring to the next one (to work on).

I did my best to hunt scum, and establish myself as town (which helps by eliminating suspects).

Thesp and Sotty - - You guys played really well, I never thought negative of anyone on a personal level when trying to aggrevate into cracking. This was just a long game that took it's toll.

Percy - - Well played as well! I'd have to disagree about the "unfun" comment. I think that there was a lot of negativity and hostility fueled by Dej after a certain day that kind of built and escalated (not to say I hadn't irresponsibly taken part*)

See you around!

[AA23]

lol PLEASE stop crying.

Thesp not being for the Sotty7 case struck me as odd and me thinking him and Kham were scum was what fueled my suspicion of Sotty7 being wolf.

It was honestly unfinished business with the unexplained scum actions and the relationship with Dej that made the tunnel vision.

And a case on Emp? Yeah totally, but I hadn't seen a case better than sotty's IMO (You must understand, a Wolf that hated lying, lurkin, and scum so to speak, totally ignored and defended someone who did it all AND had a scum hammer) - - I understood the Emp case, but wanted Thesp and Kham to crack as mafiascum - I never doubted Sotty would be lynched - but the real tunnelling was on thesp and kham.

My mistake was not paying attention to percy on his way out of the game. I had also suspected Emp for the very same reasons you guys had, and he found sotty innocent.

**But yeah - I was just trying to have Thesp and Kham crack by saying there wasn't - - however I DID mean it when I asked for it to be posted clearly: I'm a huge fan of

Case(name)
-point1
-point2
-point3

evidence 1
evidence2
evidence3

I think the Emp case was presented in a haze of kicking and screaming -- even when I got into hysterics and up on my hind legs, I always tried to organize lol
---------------------------------------------------

Guys - it was a good game, attitudes over our modkilled johnny rotten seed made waves and put rain clouds over heads!

*Percy - Note taken! - - I get tunnelled because I hate seeming hypocritical or unsure by backtracking/going against something I have passion for one day and the next.

Thanks mod!