Open 143: Jungle Republic (Game Over!) before 787

[Thesp]

Actually, if there's any "bussing", dejkha looks like he's anti-

you

the whole time, but never puts forth a serious attack on you, votes you only when goaded by Percy on it, and hops off your wagon the moment Percy leaves it. It looks far more like dejkha wanted to look like he was hostile towards you, while not doing anything to seriously threaten your survival.

Unvote: Sotty7.

Empking may be the better play today. I need to re-read.

Vote Count

Sotty7 2 - AA23, Thesp
AA23 1 - Empking

[Sotty7]

Defo going to have re-read. I did think Percy was scum, although I was agreeing with him towards the end of yesterday, that throws a few things out of whack for me.

Actually, if there's any "bussing", dejkha looks like he's anti-

you

the whole time, but never puts forth a serious attack on you, votes you only when goaded by Percy on it, and hops off your wagon the moment Percy leaves it. It looks far more like dejkha wanted to look like he was hostile towards you, while not doing anything to seriously threaten your survival.

Unvote: Sotty7.

Empking may be the better play today. I need to re-read.

Very much this. I think emp could be the play today.

[AA23]

It's not a surprise, in all fairness for you to feel the play of the day is to lynch Emp instead of you.

But fair is fair - there's no harm in another re-read. My feeling is to stay with you, though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Now that we know Dej's allignment, I would like to make the statement that he indeed got emotional and aggressive when his faction was comprimised or suspected. This can now be applied to a re-read.

In your re-read, note his reaction to new players bringing him up or not agreeing with his thoughts and statements - - I can find multiple quotes where he got snippy at someone. He made a pattern of it.

That being said - - Note that his aggression toward me only began when I started my case toward Mix. Everything before that was neutral for the most part - even when I made cases on Emp and Dust. Whether he agreed or disagreed, it was all low scale - - but the moment I started on Mix, he was aggressive, and the moment I conntected him to mix, AND the allignment of "wolf" he went off.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

He admitted that Mix had a scummy action, yet chose to ignore it.

In a game where we have multiple suspicions based on behavior and theoretical evidence, actual scumtells and scum actions are

very valuable

. It seems odd that he would ignore it. It's one thing to not want to vote or lynch someone for it, but to acknowledge a scum action, agree it's scummy, and not leave it at that? To go do far as to be the one most

against

the wagon? To become agressive to the person leading it?

I think this is simple, more so, than looking for who he ever tried to distance himself from. He was parallel to Mix in following leads, he got aggressive and emotional when he and Mix were threatened, and as for Emp:

he indeed not only suspected him at one time, but he had a vote on him and included him in his own hypothetical endgame team speculations.

Mix however, was not included in this.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm also concerned about the NK.

A smart wolf would have tried to discredit me and proved my hypothesis to have an inconsistency to counter the check mark from Dej's allignment.

what's everyone's thought on the NK?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

[Thesp]

I'm also concerned about the NK.

A smart wolf would have tried to discredit me and proved my hypothesis to have an inconsistency to counter the check mark from Dej's allignment.

what's everyone's thought on the NK?

I haven't the slightest clue what you're suggesting here, but I suspect the wolf didn't care nearly as much as you do about your hypothesis (whatever it might be), especially with their nightkill. I'm not surprised it was Percy, as he seemed more pro-town than anyone - I doubt he would have been lynched.

[AA23]

I'm just reading too much into that then - I ee what you mean.

All in all I suppose I just feel safe with my vote on Sotty.

[hewitt]

It does not surprise me at all that Percy was nightkilled. He was pretty much the most pro-town player it looked like to me. The whole dejkha was bussing AA thing is absolutely stupid in my opinion. I agree the dejkha was anti-Empking without setting up a serious attack on him. I'm pretty sure Empking is his partner.

Vote: Empking

[Khamisa]

Emp: if dejkha and AA23 were bussing this entire game, one of them would of acted noticeably scummy, wouldn't they? No. AA23 and dejkha just bickered. Neither one of them looked more scummy than the other.

That is really awful logic.

AA23: Percy as the nightkill doesn't really surprise me, I found him mostly neutral.

Vote: Empking

that was an awfully weak and reaching way to try to get suspicion of off you.

[AA23]

I think that Emp is being characteristically Emp and Mix(Sotty) is werewolf.

Wolves and Mafia win when either one represets at least half of the whole town.

Day 4

We currently have 6 people

(3 town, two mafia, one wolf)

If Mafia

mislynches

Emp, we will be in twighlight with

2 Town, 2 Mafia, one wolf

Night 5

Wolf choosing

not to NK

will result in the mafiascum starting the next day with
===============================================
Outcome 1 (no NK)
1 Town, 2 Mafia, 1 wolf
"Oh, it wasn't Emp? Woops. Must be Mix(Sotty) after all!!!! Let's get him!"

- Mafiascum wins. The will make up at least half the town
===========================================
Outcome 2 (NK hits a mafiascum)
2 Town, 1 Mafia, 1 Wolf
Mafia STILL say "Must be Mix/Sotty after all!" and the wolf is gone.

= Day 6, 2 Town, 1 Mafia, lylo

============================================
Outcome 3 (NK hits a town)
1 Town, 1 Mafia, 1 Werewolf
Mafia STILL would say "Must be Mix/Sotty after all!" and lynch him

Mafiascum win.
============================================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




.......................................................................................................
I've posted the above so you can all see what the odds are of town surviving a mislynch on Emp.

If we mislynch Emp instead of going for Mix/Sotty, we will have to trust that the Wolf will

definately hit scum

with his NK - - otherwise we are going to be in lylo.

So to summarize - - Mislynching Emp results in three possibilities based on the Wolf's actions:

A no NK = Scum win

A town NK = Scum win

A scum NK = Lylo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I'm right about Mix/Sotty, we will have NO MORE NK's - and we will be outnumbering the scum.

I believe the best course of action is to lynch Mix/Sotty. The case is stronger.

Emp is being characteristic, and his guilt is being defined by what a known wolf did NOT do to him?

That known wolf ignored a scummy player - Mix - - that counts for something more so than him not playing hard enough against Emp.

I feel very strongly about this. Mafiascum are the only people who will benefit from the lynching of Emp over Mix/Sotty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mix is higher priority than Emp.
Mix had done more scummy things than Emp.
Mix/Sotty also had an noteworthy relationship with Dej.

Confirm Vote: Sotty7

[AA23]

EBWOP "outcome 1" - town number 2

[Sotty7]

Vote: Sotty7

with additional suspicion of being "werewolf"

There is no “additional suspicion” on me. Your case is what you were pushing yesterday.

If Mafia

mislynches

Emp, we will be in twighlight with

How in the hell do you

know

it is going to be a mislynch? You can't be 100% on me being a wolf, you aren't a cop.

Funny how your whole post 807 should have both myself and emp as possible mislynches. There is no actual new information there just more fear to bend people to your way. The fact is you can input ANYONES name in for mine in your 807 and it won't lose any meaning.

Hewitt can you explain why you asked for a mod kill on dej rather than wait for all the players to check in and give their opinions on the AA v dej debacle?

[AA23]

Sotty - - while I'm not surprised at your current gameplay given the circumstances there two important things to consider.

1. The "dej + AA debacle" - - I want to put that behind us. If there's something tangable and helpful to the greater good of the town that can be derived from it, naturally it can be mentioned - - but I'd prefer it to be a dead issue otherwise so's not to stir uneccessary and pointless conversation.

2. You agree with what I've said in the post (scenario wise) and only disagree with the people involved (understandably and bias since you're one of them).

So yes - - the post goes into detail of what will happen in a mislynch.

I'm am more than confident that you are a villain, I feel strongly you are Dej's partner (based on his aggressive behavior toward the very idea of lynching you/Mix) and you (Mix) should have been lynched sooner.

You have been a suspicious variable for far too long.

There is no new evidence needed (though it's welcomed) - - what I'm saying is that no justice has been brought to you (Mix) for PAST evidence, past SCUMMY evidence - - and no PRESENT evidence suggests anyone else is a better candidate than you.

I trust everyone will consider what the mislynch will cost for this town - and I trust they will vote you.

[Thesp]

If Mafia

mislynches

Emp, we will be in twighlight with

How in the hell do you

know

it is going to be a mislynch? You can't be 100% on me being a wolf, you aren't a cop.

Funny how your whole post 807 should have both myself and emp as possible mislynches. There is no actual new information there just more fear to bend people to your way. The fact is you can input ANYONES name in for mine in your 807 and it won't lose any meaning.

QFT. While I agree Sotty7 is likely to be scum, I'm beginning to think that Empking is most likely to be dejkha's partner. AA23, I think the parallels you've drawn between dejkha and Sotty7 are more likely to be

contra

-indicators for partnership.

[AA23]

I respect your position and you're entitled to it - - I unfortunately would need something more substantial to change my position.

Right now, I'm targetting Sotty with more tangable evidence attached to educated reasoning and logical application (basically, existing "hard" evidece starting with the dirty hammer, and me attaching it to theory)

Whereas the Emp notion is purely speculation and theory that is

void

of substantial evidence to the degree upon Sotty.

Dej was wolf. Mix was scummy. As a wolf, he would at the very least have humored or persued a lynching of such a suspect, no? It is indeed his purpose. It seems odd that a revealed wolf would

admit that there was substantial scummy evidence on a player

, yet not care for it at

all

(hence I believe that while you and I acknowledge Mix(Sotty)'s possibly villain identity, the odds of him being wolf are in my favor)

What is MAJORLY unfortunate right now is that for the first time, Scum does not have the same interest as the town. Scum need the wolves to not be lynched today, a mislynch is more valuable - especially when the wolf(sotty) is the perfect fall back quicklynch tomorrow AFTER today's mislynch.

Town can trust nobody. Scum can secure an easier win if wolf lasts one more day (refer to the outline above).

I cannot urge this enough - - - Mix(Sotty) is the more appropriate candidate for a lynch - his case is based on suspicion, theory, and actually actions that indicate not only villain, but through relationships, that he is wolf. Emp is purely thoughts and air - - speculation.

The votes need to be on Sotty. It's logical and most safe for town.

[AA23]

**Repetition!**

In addition to the Mix case which should be reason enough and outweigh thin air speculation on Emp*

Dej was a wolf.

Wolves want Mafia dead.

Dej admitted Mix was scummy (through his actions, the hammer)

Why would a wolf COMPLETELY ignore the wagon? Be against it, in fact? Be aggressive about it?

Would a wolf not work to persue the lynching of scum seeing as they have no NK's?

Not if the villain is his partner.

[AA23]

Alrighty, I'm V/LA until Sunday.

Clarification to my last post - second last line - (the no NK for scum is something I'm suggesting is appealing to a wolf - you can go all out trying to lynch Mafia, and commit to it - and you don't have to worry about them nabbing you at night)

I'm hoping nothing drastic happens before sunday - - do take your time! lol

[Empking]

Kham: You're voting me for trying to get suspicion off me despite posting before any suspicion was on me? Why are you lying? Why are you giving false reasons to your vote? Are you trying to get a mis-lynch? You're saying despite that Dej had around the most votes he wasn't scummy at all? You're saying I'm scum because you think AA is town?

I want answers to all those questions.

[Khamisa]

Kham: You're voting me for trying to get suspicion off me despite posting before any suspicion was on me? Why are you lying? Why are you giving false reasons to your vote? Are you trying to get a mis-lynch? You're saying despite that Dej had around the most votes he wasn't scummy at all? You're saying I'm scum because you think AA is town?

I want answers to all those questions.

question one: suspicion carries over from other days, you know. You haven't been particularily useful, and your relation with dejkha is also suspicious.

question two: I'm not.
question three: I'm not.
question four: no
question five: I don't think I've said anything along this tangent. He was very hotheaded, plus the strange relation with you and him.
question six: No. but that does bring me to my next point...

can anyone see AA23 and Emp as mafia here? AA23 has made that huge plan, which is great if he's town, but only if he's town. It's very sided towards him. In no way does it guarantee his townness. And in his plan, he's very much decided on the fact that Empking is a mislynch. The only problem I can see with this is Emp's recent vote on AA23.

[Thesp]

Right now, I'm targetting Sotty with more tangable evidence attached to educated reasoning and logical application (basically, existing "hard" evidece starting with the dirty hammer, and me attaching it to theory)

Whereas the Emp notion is purely speculation and theory that is

void

of substantial evidence to the degree upon Sotty.

...

I cannot urge this enough - - - Mix(Sotty) is the more appropriate candidate for a lynch - his case is based on suspicion, theory, and actually actions that indicate not only villain, but through relationships, that he is wolf. Emp is purely thoughts and air - - speculation.

It seems a little naive to suggest that the case against Sotty7 is the only case with sound reasoning behind it. One of the strongest aspects of it is that dejkha talks about Empking in a hostile manner the whole game, yet seems to try to avoid having anything substantive come about from it. In fact, he relies on his "meta" of hating Emp to show hostility, which couples as a mild deterrent to anyone else getting on an Empking wagon, since dejkha's reasoning is

prima facie

crap. Furthermore, Empking never makes any significant push towards dejkha, and in the past few days has been getting more and more irrational and reclusive.

I'm having a hard time how you see that as "purely speculation and theory that is

void

of substantial evidence to the degree upon Sotty". I don't think that's intellectually responsible.

AA23, which do you think is more likely for scum to do: (A) Aggressively oppose the lynch of their partner; or (B) Ignore pressure on their partner, hope it goes away, and steer it elsewhere?

What is MAJORLY unfortunate right now is that for the first time, Scum does not have the same interest as the town.

I'm guessing you mean "mafia" for scum. (When I use the term, I mean any anti-town factions, for what it's worth.) Either way, this statement is pretty humorous.

can anyone see AA23 and Emp as mafia here?

I don't think AA23 is scum, and I especially don't think he'd be scum with Empking.

[hewitt]

Hewitt can you explain why you asked for a mod kill on dej rather than wait for all the players to check in and give their opinions on the AA v dej debacle?

Are you effing kidding me? Wait for all players to check in and give their opinions on the AA v. dejkha debate that has been ongoing for weeks? If you hadn't already stated your opinions before the modkill I don't really care that's kind of your own fault. I'm not going to apologize for asking for a modkill on dejkha after what he said. I thought (and ThAdmiral thought) it was the most appropriate action.

I'm V/LA until 7/3. My vote stands strong with Empking.

[Empking]

Kham: You're voting me for trying to get suspicion off me despite posting before any suspicion was on me? Why are you lying? Why are you giving false reasons to your vote? Are you trying to get a mis-lynch? You're saying despite that Dej had around the most votes he wasn't scummy at all? You're saying I'm scum because you think AA is town?

I want answers to all those questions.

question one: suspicion carries over from other days, you know. You haven't been particularily useful, and your relation with dejkha is also suspicious.

Who was suspicious of me?
You find me suspicious because you find me suspicious?
Isn't that circular?
Do you consider it a good reason?

[Sotty7]

Hewitt can you explain why you asked for a mod kill on dej rather than wait for all the players to check in and give their opinions on the AA v dej debacle?

Are you effing kidding me? Wait for all players to check in and give their opinions on the AA v. dejkha debate that has been ongoing for weeks? If you hadn't already stated your opinions before the modkill I don't really care that's kind of your own fault. I'm not going to apologize for asking for a modkill on dejkha after what he said. I thought (and ThAdmiral thought) it was the most appropriate action.

I'm V/LA until 7/3. My vote stands strong with Empking.

I agree that dej went waaay over the line and deserved the modkill. I am not arguing that at all.

The fact is now we won't know for sure if the mod would have killed him without you calling for him to be mod killed. It also robs the town of actually lynching dej which takes away a lot of information. You had your vote on him, I know that I was willing to change to him after how out of hand he got, I'm sure several others would have as well.

Kham: You're voting me for trying to get suspicion off me despite posting before any suspicion was on me? Why are you lying? Why are you giving false reasons to your vote? Are you trying to get a mis-lynch? You're saying despite that Dej had around the most votes he wasn't scummy at all? You're saying I'm scum because you think AA is town?

I want answers to all those questions.

question one: suspicion carries over from other days, you know. You haven't been particularily useful, and your relation with dejkha is also suspicious.

Who was suspicious of me?
You find me suspicious because you find me suspicious?
Isn't that circular?
Do you consider it a good reason?

I'm suspicious of you emp, so is Hewitt and Thesp it seems. It hasn't gone unnoticed that you are only getting active now because people are gunning for you. You voted AA with a reason that no one here believes, are you even going to try and build a case on him or do you really think bussing is good enough?

[Khamisa]

Who was suspicious of me?
You find me suspicious because you find me suspicious?
Isn't that circular?
Do you consider it a good reason?

Who wasn't suspicious of you?
No, I find you suspicious because of the things you've done.
This correct reasoning is not circular.
Yes, my reasoning is good.

[Empking]

Who was suspicious of me?
You find me suspicious because you find me suspicious?
Isn't that circular?
Do you consider it a good reason?

Who wasn't suspicious of you?
No, I find you suspicious because of the things you've done.
This correct reasoning is not circular.
Yes, my reasoning is good.

AA23 & Thesp and everyone who had posted before I voted AA23
Stop lying
Stop Lying
Don't dodge the question.

[Thesp]

I am increasingly happy with an Empking lynch.

Vote: Empking.

[Khamisa]

How did I dodge the question?

Your question was "Do you consider it a good reason?"

My answer was "Yes, my reasoning is good."

Dodging the question would be "So-and-so thought it was a good reason." because I'm not stating my thoughts on my reason.