Mafia 93 - A Roccisi Summer - Over!

[Korts]

vote: OGB

[Korts]

Seraphim's 25 is not good posting. The Mixologist random vote reason backtrack argument is bullshit and the point against OGB already stated by charter and backed up by rofl. All in all a scummy post, as opposed to OGB simply being unhelpful.

Also see post 41. Depicting unhelpful behaviour as conclusive proof of scum alignment as well as speaking for the whole of the town. The content may be just a hyperbolical representation of Seraphim's suspicions, but the tone sounds so fake.

unvote, vote: Seraphim

is it to early to call active lurking?

No.

[Korts]

woof. i don't like korts' post 49. mostly the fact that he's deflating the ogb wagon by removing himself from it.

I have found a better one. Seraphim presenting others' points as his own, labelling a completely normal reaction backtracking, and having general scummy tone is better than wanting players to identity-guess.

[Korts]

Korts: Of course the argument is bullshit. The question was intentionally loaded to provoke reactions. Plus, if I actually thought that the "backtracking" was scummy, I would have placed my vote there.

Accusing players of things they didn't do (i.e. doing something scummy yourself) is only likely to provoke one kind of reaction--suspicion. You are being thick if you think otherwise.

OGB still has yet to post anything of note besides fueling alt speculation which is useless which is why my vote is there.

In the 14 minutes between this post of yours and the previous one OGB didn't post at all. Do you expect him to post every five minutes, and if not, what was the purpose of this comment?

[Korts]

woof. i don't like korts' post 49. mostly the fact that he's deflating the ogb wagon by removing himself from it.

I have found a better one. Seraphim presenting others' points as his own, labelling a completely normal reaction backtracking, and having general scummy tone is better than wanting players to identity-guess.

i can't agree that there's any better place to vote until ogb actually starts participating. the fact that he's obviously following along enough to post useless crap here, and simultaneously has been posting in other threads, but can't seem to bring himself to actually be anything but a useless sack is impeding my ability to vote for anyone but him.

I'd vote for scummy over anti-town any day of the week.

[Korts]

He has made 3 posts. I see a tendency in the quality of his posting, but so far it is not a wide enough sample to dub it scummy per se.

[Korts]

Ah, but is it true suspicion or scummy faked suspicion/outrage? There's a difference and that's what I'm aiming for. Useless now, of course. But at this point in the game, it's all about reactions. These early game impressions are important and I want to take full advantage of them.

I like how you blame the town for ruining your brilliant trap.

The OGB case didn't need restating, since it was made like half a page ago. Stop padding your posts with useless shit.

[Korts]

EBWOP:

since it was made like half a page

and 14 minutes

ago.

[Korts]

rofl, if OGB consistently ignores the game, he is scummy. If he ignores it over the span of three posts, I don't see where he is all that damaging to town.

[Korts]

rofl, if OGB consistently ignores the game, he is scummy. If he ignores it over the span of three posts, I don't see where he is all that damaging to town.

No, he is spending his posts ACTIVELY trying to derail the town. The quantity of his posts is irrelevant. The quality of them is incredibly scummy.

Meh. I don't see his posts as actively anti-town, only passively. Do you think that only one avenue of discussion can be pursued at any one time?

[Korts]

Claim: Jack-of-All-Trades

Wow. This is the most retarded thing ever. Seriously dude?

Unvote
Vote: Mufasa

Exhibit No. 4. ladies and gents. Seraphim is scum.

[Korts]

Can we see exhibits 1 through 3, please?

Read the game or gtfo

Hmmm. This post sucks. Congrats. You fail the random voting stage.

Presenting an already existing point as your own.

Rofl, what do you think of Mix's backpedalling regarding his random vote?

Accusing people of things they haven't done.

OGB still has yet to post anything of note besides fueling alt speculation which is useless which is why my vote is there.

Padding your posts with useless shit.

[Korts]

Caboose is scum too by the way.

Seraphim is more blatant and therefore he needs to die first.

[Korts]

Exhibit 1: When did I ever present or claim that point as my own?

You never claimed or implied that the point was made by someone other than you. You implicitly presented the point as your own.

Exhibit 2: Under certain conditions, this could be considered backpedalling.

"certain conditions" which don't apply here I'm sure.

Exhibit 3: I can pad my posts with as much shit as I want. It's not a scumtell, unfortunately. Ever play with Mastin before?

You can pad your posts with shit as much as you want. It is a scumtell, unfortunately. Pointless walls of post are not helpful and every useless part of your post is another nail in the coffin of concision, assuming that in this metaphor concision does not deserve any more nails in its coffin.

What "tone" does "Claim: Jack-of-All-Trades" have?

[Korts]

charter: I do not think OGB is being actively anti-town because I do not think so. There is no better answer to that silly question.

My opinion of Mufasa, after a cursory scan of his games, is that the claim is not out of character with his on-site meta. It is a nulltell leaning town slightly. I ignored him because opinions of opinions of silly actions are much more valuable than opinions of the silly actions themselves.

You have not given any opinion of Mufasa either. On what authority are you questioning my lack of stated opinion on the matter?

[Korts]

EBWOP: nice, IAUN.

unvote, vote: Mufasa

[Korts]

Neither did rofl. No one said "Yeah, I agree with player X, that's a good case!".

Read the game or GTFO.

Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game.

unvote, vote OGB

No one cares. You're only trying to fire up wild goose chases instead of hunt scum or take a stance on anything in the RVS.

i agree.

that post alone is enough grounds to lynch.

[Korts]

Exhibit 2: If I hadn't screwed myself over, his reactions might have been interesting. Who are you to say that the conditions don't apply here?

You haven't stated what conditions you are talking about; I don't see any scenario where what Mix did could be justifiably called backtracking; therefore those conditions that according to you exist, they do not apply here.

Exhibit 3: that is not the point. the point is that you specifically reiterated a case that you made just 14 minutes before--the motivation in that is probably overeager scum.

[Korts]

Reveal: Upon death, I will post the full Role PM of the dead player, including group memberships, excluding group details. All active and passive abilities will be revealed, but for the sake of brevity, the first post will only contain a catchy role name and link to the actual Role PM.

While alive, players don't know their catchy role name.

Claim: Jack-of-All-Trades

Unvote, Vote: Mufasa

.

If he has a bunch of one-shots, I'm assuming that he's assuming it's safe enough to call himself a Jack of all trades.

Ok, Caboose is scum.

[Korts]

On second thought, it's plausible for a player to claim the most fitting rolename as a "catchy name" instead of list of actions.

unvote, vote: Seraphim

[Korts]

inHimshallIbe: I'm sorry but your first post reads scum to me...

Why apologize for a read on alignment? Are you shyly bussing?

Seraphim needs a shinier wagon.

I don't like skitzer's posts, particularly where he sets up a false dichotomy that if Mufasa won't be lynched, OGB will. I also don't like any of the people on the Mufasa wagon.

[Korts]

For his contrived case against Seraphim.

lol contrived. Unless you can actually show me how it is contrived, I'll just have to think you're spewing bullshit.

[Korts]

People unfamiliar with roflcopter's playstyle should make themselves familiar with it. Yes he has a tendency to fail to explicitly state his reasons, but most of the time they're evident or gut-based. If you think you can only analyse arguments and not actions, this game isn't suited for you anyway.

@Korts: Please explain how each exhibit is relevant. #1 Just because a player doesn't say "I agree with ___" = scum . . . false.

The equation is not correct in every situation, but making a point that has been explicitly stated multiple times before by others, without referencing those others, looks like a blatant attempt at taking credit. If you think that is pro-town, you should re-evaluate the motives for this.

#2 I believe that Seraphim believed that Mixologist was backpedaling.

Apparently so. I never said he believed otherwise. My point is, Mixologist's actions had no relation to backpedaling at all, and the accusation is bullshit.

#3 Saying that a player has been posting useless shit is not padding.

Saying that a player has been posting useless shit is, indeed, not padding. A player who posts useless shit, does, however, pad his posts unnecessarily with aforementioned useless shit. You present an irrelevant piece of information and I don't see how you've countered my argument at all.

#4 Voting a player for an early claim (and especially a questionable one) makes someone scum how? I believe that you know how Seraphim plays and found him to be an easy target (outside of the popular ones).

The claim is confirmable, a likely NK target, and has been executed by a newbie with precedent of, um, let's call it unorthodox play as town; Seraphim's vote, in this context, is opportunistic and scummy.

PEOPLE CALLING FOR A MUFASA LYNCH/VIG ARE SCUMMY. I'll compile a list of these people later.

HR: Thanks for defending me, but I can assure you, I'm fine.

I take this to mean "thanks, buddy, I don't want you to tie yourself to me".

I could go for an OGB lynch too, after continued lack of any pro-town intentions.

[Korts]

ekiM, don't try to sell that bullshit about protects and RBs not being useful. Confirmable, only semi-, but that should be enough for now. Three kill-stopping abilities is pretty useful imo. You wanting to eliminate that the first night, if not the first day like charter, is pretty scummy.

[Korts]

Also:

Well, I must say I'm incredibly frightened by how ekiM just responded to about everything directed at me. Very frightened.

This comment is noted.

[Korts]

Damn I need to post here. Will do soon.

[Korts]

I'm still thinking a Seraphim lynch is best here.

@rofl:

I could go for an OGB lynch too, after continued lack of any pro-town intentions.

I only defended the initial three-four anti-town posts of OGB, and I still stand by my "14 minutes" comment. The attack there was bullshit, since forum mafia is not the medium for immediate responses at all.

Either way, OGB is a fine substitute for Seraphim at this juncture, with no helpful comments at all and 4 days since his last post.

Either he himself is Mafia and is just riling up all of us town, which he's doing rather well

The phrasing of this, specifically the "all of us town", is so fake.

Meanwhile, darkdude is disgustingly under the radar. He has had little actual content and the questions he pose don't seem to be for scumhunting purposes. Particularly his latest is the one that bugs me:

I don't understand why some think Mufasa is scum but not OGB or vice versa. Anyone care to explain?

Implying that the two, completely independent cases are actually connected, and trying to set up a Mufasa-OGB town/town or scum/scum dichotomy. This is not just a useless comment, it is downright scummy.

ekiM makes a compelling case against inHimshallibe, for the most part.

[Korts]

unvote, vote: OGB

(L-2)

[Korts]

Implying that the two, completely independent cases are actually connected, and trying to set up a Mufasa-OGB town/town or scum/scum dichotomy. This is not just a useless comment, it is downright scummy.

They are "connected" by similarity. Both of them did nonsensical stuff, so why would one case be scummy and another not?

One lurks and makes no effort to aid town; the other claimed way too early and plays like a newbie. How are the two even remotely similar?

[Korts]

There's a lot going for a Russian Axelrod and an Italian Seraphim and darkdude.

vote: Seraphim

Re: my being blocked, I confirm that it's likely I was blocked. rofl: for me to be the cause of the lack of italian NK, I would have to be Italian myself. You've concluded that if I'm scum, I'm more likely to be Russian. Is there any relation between the two conclusions?

I agree with the Upper Roccisi Neighbourhood claiming.

[Korts]

(reveal: two italian mafia dead)

Whoa. Well, I'm back. Looks like there are definitely two Mafia teams now.

Is it me, or does this read shocked/shaken up? This is pretty much how I'd expect an Italian to respond to this reveal.

[Korts]

I come back from vacation and not only find out that OGB flipped scum but that two other scum were killed in the night. Please tell me under what circumstances that does not warrant a "whoa".

A mental whoa is acceptable. Voicing it is a variation on the "oh noes <insertpowerrolehere> is dead" tell. I always dislike expression of surprise/shock/other emotions regarding the recently deceased.

OGB, being a vig (even if one shot) is an incredibly useful scum role. Thus, he is NOT an early candidate for bussing.

(Note: Yes this changes my stance from before about early votes being suspect. It isn't worth lynching a vig if you have other avenues)

So, I would remove from my list of obvious Russian candidates: charter, korts, rofl.

I don't follow this train of thought. I was a late addition to the wagon, I could be a hypothetical partner bussing. Also, if you don't think bussing is likely, why aren't early additions to this wagon on your list of unlikely Russians? ekiM, for instance. You mention him a few paragraphs later, but why not in this list?

I get the feeling you're just trying to appeal to the most aggressive scumhunters here.

On the flip side, the first person to come to OGB's defense in any fashion is: Caboose.

Again, why is my early defense of OGB ignored?

SpyreX, you make no mention of Seraphim. Do you think he's not scummy at all?

[Korts]

I can actually see roflcopter being Russian Mafia, bussing hard through D1 to get town points. Your certainty in his guilt was crazy. Also considering darkdude as another Russian Mafioso, as rofl completely ignored him and chalked him up to being town.

I remember Adel saying something as Town that scum often say the names of people they are connected with more often. Looking at the dead Italian Mafiosi from this light, Seraphim does look like scum.

Don't these two hypotheses contradict each other? If you suspect darkdude and rofl to be connected based on the fact that roflcopter ignored darkdude, and then you state that Seraphim is scummy because the dead Italians mentioned him often, there's a problem with your logic.

These are not "Mason" groups by definition. InHim was Italian Mafia and part of a group. Logically, there will be at least one Russian Mafia who is also part of a separate group. And if there's a SK he could easily be part of a group.

Why do you assume the setup is symmetric? The Russians could easily have other perks instead of being part of a neighbourhood.

Did Mufasa stop a mafia kill last night? I'm betting no. WHY THE HELL ARE WE CONTINUING TO LET HIM BLOCK PEOPLE THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP TOWN?

Is Mufasa likely town? I'm betting yes. WHY ARE YOU CONTINUING TO PUSH A LIKELY TOWN PLAYER'S WAGON?

I just have a question. Im no master in balancing setups and such so thats why I ask.

Whats the expected number of scum and mafia groups in this game?

I don't like this post. For one, the likely number of scum factions can be guessed fairly accurately from D1 and N1 flips; also, what does this have to do with setup balance, when we don't know how well the town's equipped or anything?

However, "appealing to the aggressive scum hunters"? Really.

Yeah, really.

vote alvinz95

Hey, make sure you don't overly exert yourself trying to help town.

[Korts]

vote alvinz95

This vote is completely out of no where.



Care to elaborate Howard?

Did you notice that this point has already been made by me, and implicitly by charter?

[Korts]

If I was OGB's scum buddy, why would I have voted for him?


I said earlier, I really didn't care if OGB or Mufasa were voted off because neither of them were adding anything useful at all to our scum hunt.

Distancing.

I think we caught newb

scum.

Vote: Starbuck

Fixed. See insanepenguin in Roccisi Autumn. The logic is bad, but it's not inherently scummy.

Starbuck, do you realize how empty and useless your reply to above quote was? Also, it sounded a bit like you are threatening town.

skitzer's post has to wait, I'm going to sleep.

[Korts]

@Starbuck: I didn't intend to talk down to you, nor does my post look like that to me in retrospect. Please refrain from depicting my questions as personal attacks. If you want to discredit my points, do it with valid arguments.

Perhaps for the fact that he was almost nonexistent yesterday and has yet to appear today.

Lurkerhunting is a good way to avoid having to post actual content.

alvinz' OMGUS without further comment on the game is noted. Not in a good way.

Both of you need to start being proactive. My paranoid half is starting to suspect a lurking-based bussing scheme between you two.

I am not comfortable with skitzerposting. Day 1 logic is broken in multiple places; attacks Starbuck for newbtell just now; piggybacking on Mufasa=town case without reference to earlier mentions of same point.

But lets assume for a second he is town and analyze his wagons:

For fuckssake we've already come to the conclusion that unless there is some seriously idiotic bussing scheme at hand the guy is town. GTFO off his back and stop trying to spread suspicion of him.

[Korts]

I agree with the assumption that also makes Mufasa unlikely Russian and Italian. I asked how many mafia groups would be in this game. Since the answer is 2 (can i trust skitzer? yes I can) it makes Mufasa either third party or, more prob and by a wide margin, town.

So read the thread or GTFO YOU.

I saw that the first time around. I still don't like the initial phrasing of the lead in to the Mufasa wagon analysis.

[Korts]

Ok, I'm willing to hammer. Final words, etc?

There is a strong Howard/alvinz connection. alvinz' 414 post, other than being OMGUS, seems to damn Howard more than Caboose, but he votes Caboose and not Howard. Distancing probable.

In an alvinz-scum scenario people will have been bussing right after Caboose has claimed his results. Wagon analysis may not be much use, but I don't like Axel's (and Starbuck's, but he's a newb) distrust of Caboose--an unprovoked fakeclaim this early would be very stupid.

[Korts]

Definitely, not a noob. Can we quit with the insults? This is supposed to be fun.

It's not supposed to be insulting. You're still new to the site, that's nothing to be ashamed of.

[Korts]

I'm not new to Mafia though. I may be new to the way you guys play, but I am not a new to the game. I'd appreciate the insults to stop.

Face to face or on another forum? If the latter, I'd appreciate a link.

[Korts]

Considering your history--1 finished game on MS with a quicklynch of you right after you replaced, and 4 ongoing; 3 games on askew; and sixty some on EM, a site where the emphasis is very strongly on the night game and barely any conventional scumhunting ever happens: I'm inclined to call you inexperienced. I don't intend to insult you, I'm just giving you some slack in being suspicious of Caboose for his claim.

[Korts]

Also, I see I referenced you earlier as a "he". Sorry about that.

[Korts]

Did you even look at my View Askew games, which are way more involved than any of the games I am currently playing here?

Not extensively, yet. I've skimmed a couple pages of Wicked, and it seemed mostly a discussion of the theme. I will be taking a proper look later.

[Korts]

Caboose, did you recieve any results?

[Korts]

Also, roflcopter was obviously a scum kill. I'm suspicious of Seraphim first and foremost for this.

[Korts]

Dust (vanilla townie) - skitzer (vig)

Why do you think this? I think this is a scumslip--scum would know Dust was a vigkill if, for instance, their group killing ability didn't have a Night 0 addendum.

at the risk of looking like buddying

What purpose is there in saying this? Pre-emptive defense against any accusations of buddying, because that is exactly your intent maybe?

[Korts]

... then it's a pretty reasonable assumption that the night zero death was caused by the compulsive vig.

No, it's not reasonable to assume that the mafia don't have any Night 0 shots. Not reasonable at all.

[Korts]

We know skitzer took a shot night zero. It's way more likely that it went through and the mafia didn't have shots than that it didn't go through, and exactly one of the mafia groups got a kill through.

Bullshit. You can't calculate likeliness of either scenario, since you don't know the town's power roles. I have role-based information that at least one kill more was attempted N0 than went through.

Very interested in what Seraphim and his claimed hood have been saying to one another!

As I'm sure you would be as scum.

Re: masons: I don't want to give scum a chance to fakeclaim and snatch the win at endgame, so I'm with charter on the masons claiming. It's a good WIFOM trap for scum night kills, too. This is, of course, if there is no additional group ability for the masonry.

[Korts]

You're not interested in what one of your top suspects throughout the game has to say about his earlier hood claim?

I'm interested, sure, but I haven't decided yet whether it would actually be optimal to out a whole neighbourhood for this purpose.

And I don't have that information, so from my POV where we have a compulsive N0 vig and a single N0 kill, the most obvious explanation is that the vig committed the kill.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to partially claim, by the way.

Ok, fair enough. I still think it was bad to assume, but I can accept for the time being that town can make that kind of assumption.

I claimed what I did because I don't want anyone to base their deductions on false premises when I have proof to the contrary.

Isn't this exactly what I just said?

Right, I skipped that apparently.

tubby's fullclaim was premature, but it's honest, at least as far as I can tell.

If you are the real rolfpartner mason, CLAIM NOW. If you claim later, you will hurt the town.

I don't like this comment. It's been made plenty clear by ekiM already that if anyone other than tubby is rofl's partner, they should counterclaim, and it's obvious anyway--this strikes me more as "HEY SCUMPARTNER COUNTERCLAIM HIM PLZ"

Tubby, if you for some reason "forgot" that your masonry is of three players, I think TODAY is the time to say it. Dont say who he is but please tell us if there are indeed three players in your masonry. If you are only two, then confirm please.

What is the purpose of this, considering that tubby claimed this:

i am rolf's mason partner

there are only two of us,

we have the ability to bodyguard,

Also, reviewing the list of abilities this game, I'm pretty sure I don't know what kind of role-based info would allow you to know that a kill was attempted and failed on Night 0 unless (1) you were attempting that kill yourself, or (2) someone tried to kill you and you had a Bulletproof vest. Just saying.

You know, it's not particularly pro-town to muse about these things out loud. I can think of at least one other way other than these

or

the actual case if it isn't one of the above, though, just off the top of my head.

[Korts]

Hm.

vote: Seraphim

[Korts]

Sorry for the lack of posting, I've had a tough weekend. I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Korts]

I did somewhat hint at them. Mostly, it's just a meta read after watching you play two games as scum as your mod. You seem to be playing similarly here.

Do you have similar knowledge of ekiM's play as town, or are you just basing this on his scum play?

I don't get it. Were you intentionally trying to be ambiguous? Then why did you say 'partner' yesterday and 'neighbors' today, instead of picking something actually ambiguous and sticking with it? Are you sure you're in a neighborhood?

Ugh. I don't like the continued grilling regarding this particular point. Seraphim's initial slip was a nulltell at worst, and his defense, insofar as any is needed, is plausible. SpyreX backing you up is misguided at best.

I agree with people saying Seraphimtown shouldn't be so interested in Caboose's next investigation target.

darkdude is still not-so-active lurking. I find tubbyposting lacking as well, he attacks only Seraphim's insistence that he not be forced to fullclaim.

Just noticed that Korts singled out Seraphim for jumping on Mufasa, when he didn't do it to charter. Odd.

Well, to be fair, I remember telling charter to quit pushing a likely town wagon; but I'm pretty familiar with charter's play, and this is not uncharacteristic of him.

does that last exchange seem weird to anyone else? please review posts 585 through 590,,

Ugh. Please do your own scumhunting.

vote: darkdude

I have a solid town read for various reasons on five players. My scumlist right now is: darkdude, HowardRoark, Axelrod-ish ekiM-ish.

[Korts]

Seraphim, this is what I think of tajo: I'm aware he's had a recent history of lagging behind with his games, so I'm not as quick to judge him as others seem to be; but we need posting from him as well, and if his current performance looks to him like it's going to be long term, I encourage him to replace out sooner than later.

[Korts]

Hi Lowell.

I agree with the HowardRoark-love being unreasonable pending further explanation.

[Korts]

I don't particularly like Seraphim making assumptions about the number of scum. At this point there are still a lot of possibilities.

X: this post addresses charter's obsession with Mufasa, among others.

Waiting on Seraphim's version of the neighbourhood conversation before I comment.

HowardRoark's attack on tajo, other than being arguably OMGUS, seems for the sake of attacking anyone at all--tajo is a convenient choice on multiple accounts: he's attacked Howard, which got his attention in the first place, and he hasn't been particularly active, therefore a possibly valid lynch. The case Howard presents is weak and implicates him more than it does tajo.

[Korts]

And that is how the weak case works . . . suddenly we get Korts boiling it down to OMGUS and iamusername tearing it apart. Do those two names sound familiar? Oh yeah, they were on my watch list. All just pieces of the puzzle.

So you admit to having presented a weak case, but apparently believe that the people who point it out can only be doing so with a hidden agenda? You are drawing connections between completely unrelated matters--how big a motivation do you imagine being on your "watch list" is gonna be for scum to dismantle your every argument?

I'd like to see a reaction from Seraphim to what X has posted as a paraphrase of the neighborhood's night talk. Right now, I'd have to say that it looks pretty bad for Seraphim: indifference when X was wary of him being mafia, role fishing, etc.

Can you shut the hell up until Seraphim confirms or denies X's story? You're basically feeding him lines.

But why are they 12 pages apart?

Like I said, I am familiar with charter's play, and when he latches onto early game anti-town behaviour he's prone to not let go either until there are drastic changes in climate or the guy is lynched. After Mufasa was all but confirmed and yet he kept pushing his lynch I called him out. Before that he was just playing like he always does.

.... Wow. If that is an accurate paraphrase it just reeks of scum.

How?

For fuckssake, at least pretend to want to help.

[Korts]

Sera's side. I'll explain it when I ahve some real time.

Seriously, don't. Not until Seraphim confirms or denies that what X said is an accurate paraphrase of their discussion.

[Korts]

For fuckssake, at least pretend to want to help.

Excuse me for feeling guilty for being a useless player.

I don't think it's of any use to replace out at this stage, right?

Seriously, don't replace out. You're gonna be lynched anyway, in all likeliness.

What I want to see from you is some effort. Do some player analysis, let us see who you think is scum, ANYTHING. If you feel guilty for being useless, you should try doing something against it, instead of posting questions that serve no practical purpose in terms of scumhunting.

Also, if you're lynched and turn up town, you'd be doing the whole town a favor by giving us a complete and unabridged version of your thoughts beforehand.

[Korts]

Seriously, Lowell, what's your case? That I didn't stick with the early game wagon? I had better cases to pursue. OGB is only obvscum from retrospect--his actions were simply passively anti-town. Seraphim, on the other hand, was and is actively scummy, so the accusation of derailment is laughable. If anything, the OGB wagon was a distraction to the Seraphim wagon--the fact that OGB turned out to be scum is irrelevant, since we have multiple factions.

caboose- TOWN. probably not italian (singled out by inhim out of nowhere), definatly not russian (first to point finger at alvinz)

If you feel confident enough in your read that you categorically, with capital letters, claim Caboose to be town, why go on to say "probably not italian [...] definitely not russian"? To elaborate, your first sentence seems to imply that you're sure he's town--then you go on to say that he's

probably

not italian; this kind of wishy-washiness really bugs me.

I also don't understand how you got a strong town vibe from tubby's posts--he's pseudo-confirmed by game mechanic, but his play has not been amazing. I'd like you to quote those posts that gave you these strong town vibes, and try to explain which parts and why.

Are you aware that when you gave Mixologist minus points you were saying you yourself were scummy?

Also note these quotes:

korts- possible derailment of OGB wason in 49, scum w/ OGB?

[...]

X- possible partner to OGB based on 231, OBVIOUS derailment. his confirmation of sera is a point in his favor. scum could have easily exploited it as an opportunity to call his partner confirmed town

[...]

4) Some scummy players:
korts
howard

Note the complete absence of X on the scummy players list, despite a big difference in tone when making the same accusation you make against me. Even taking into account that you take his confirmation of Seraphim as a point in his favor, the accusation you make against me is "possible derailment", and the accusation against X is "OBVIOUS derailment", and a minor point that I personally see equal motivation for doesn't give X enough town cred to counterpoint the seriousness of your accusation.

[Korts]

Caboose, what did you get tonight?

[Korts]

Nothing else, then.

Hm. I need a reread.

[Korts]

*facepalm*

What purpose does this comment serve?

[Korts]

---------------
The Russians
---------------

OGB's random vote is

Mixologist (now Lowell), unknown alignment

alvinz's random vote is

skitzer

iamausername's non-random first vote is

alvinz, scumbuddy

OGB's other references:
A

Mufasa, town

vote; a comment on

roflcopter, town's

case against him. Other than this, no relevant comments. OGB is a dead end.

alvinz's other references:

Post 2 ISO

, he makes the following list of points:

1.

Caboose

(probable town)--Korts

is town, and a 'tard at the same time. Here's how I'll crack under pressure: "OH NOES, A WAGON? NOW I'LL JUST CLAIM MILLER/DOCTOR/COP/VIG CAUSE I'M SO PRESSURED INTO GETTING OUT OF IT!" (obviously a joke). Seriously, your thought is a complete rapage of a little hotdog.
2.

OGB

is a waste of space and posts to the town as scum and a 'tard. He's trying to stay under the radar, the best scumtell in all of mafiascum, and has posted nothing of substance except distracting the town from scum hunting then saying "Wtf mangs, WIFOM, you guys are 'tards, why are you voting me?" which still doesn't accomplish anything. He hasn't made any real posts even after his 'game' which is the most scumy part.Get real, or die.
3.

[/b]Mufasa[/b]

is another 'tard by claiming at broad daylight saying that 'he can get protected' which is a really dumb gambit and WIFOM. From his meta it is clear that he is a newbie and bad at claiming. I'm going to label him as a retarded townie.

Note that he labels

Mufasa

as town, like he does with

Caboose

. This makes me think he was more likely buddying in regards to Caboose, especially considering that Caboose picked up the wagon that iam started on his scumbuddy alvinz--I doubt any Russian would help their buddy push another one of their buddies' wagons, at least not without the town supporting the wagon first.

Next alvinz post

is a quote by

Caboose

and a simple comment of "Epic fail at scumhunting". Again, another point for Caboose not being Russian; I doubt alvinz would continuously try to discredit a buddy.

ISO 5

: claims

HowardRoark

is following

Caboose

's vote, yet votes Caboose. Inconsistency between reasoning and order of suspicion implies Howard-alvinz connection.

ISO 7 and 8

further trying to implicate

Caboose

--further strengthening my belief that Caboose is not Russian.

ISO 10

is an analysis of his wagon: says that everyone on his wagon except

roflcopter

and

SpyreX

have "either wagonned, done little, or have acted scummy": this means

HowardRoark

,

darkdude

,

Axelrod

,

Mufasa

,

tubby

,

Starbuck

and

ekiM

. Makes me think that SpyreX might well be Russian, since all his reasoning with his vote on alvinz was was "Ohh see thats a different business all together"; before that, he makes no seperate mention of alvinz, only in quotes of vote counts. He does make a reference to "alvins", though, early on:

Caboose - what the hell is your fixation with an alvins wagon?

Again, motivations for Russians to ask this are obvious.

ISO 11

quotes the post in which

X

votes alvinz; the vote itself is preceded by a weak strawman of an argument, and the reply addresses this more or less. Strikes me as a possible Russian interaction, although bad play is a possibility as well.

ISO 12

should be a very informative post. For one, why was this not quoted before:

I'm going to say there's going to be AT LEAST 3 SCUM on my wagon.

Here's the final vote count on alvinz: alvinz95 (10):

HowardRoark

,

roflcopter

,

SpyreX

,

darkdude

,

Axelrod

,

Mufasa

,

tubby216

,

Starbuck

,

ekiM

,

X

Now, consider that

none

of the dead players so far on his wagon are scum. The players whose alignment we still don't know are: HowardRoark, SpyreX, ekiM, X. I find it unlikely that a Russian wouldn't bus this wagon hard after Caboose's claim, so I have to assume that there's a grain of truth in alvinz' post; I also think, however, that his final outcry was a last ditch attempt at helping his faction, and under the guise of frustration he tried to plant some seeds of paranoia. So according to this logic, there's either one or two Russian scum between Howard/SpyreX/ekiM/X.

HowardRoark, you just majorly screwed yourself over by saying that I was BUDDYING WITH YOU. Good job winning dammit.

This is an interesting comment as well, and worth analysis; I'm not yet sure whether it genuinely implicates HowardRoark or if it's

intended to.

ISO 13

alvinz once more emphasizes that X in particular is doing a bad job of scumhunting, re: ISO 11. Makes me consider the "simply bad play" possibility more likely.

I'll do IAUN and the conclusion a bit later.

[Korts]

Bah. Apparently I forgot to factor in the three already dead Russians when considering alvinz's ISO 12. I still think there's one more Russian, and if so, they're likely one of the four on alvinz's final wagon who are unconfirmed. Italian(s) may be in that four as well.

How is it a strawman, and how did I not hear about it being a strawman from you before?

I didn't say this before because I missed it; the review of alvinz's posts made me read the quoted post of yours more attentively. Here's alvinz's comment you criticize, followed by your own comment:

Only roflcopter and SpyreX have posted original content. The rest have either wagonned, done little, or have acted scummy.

So HowardRoark, darkdude, Axelrod, Mufasa, tubby216, Starbuck, and ekiM are scum? You must see where this argument falls short. Vote: alvinz95.

alvinz says: "the rest are all either wagoners, reactive, or scummy". You say: "ah, so you say the rest are all scummy! HA! Vote" If you can't see how this argument is obviously broken, I can't help you.

X: what do you think of Seraphim?

[Korts]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that SpyreX pulled an early bus on OGB and tried to ignore alvinz until the investigation claim forced him to do something. It's notable also that iamausername basically ignored SpyreX, making only a single passing comment on his suspicion list, even though both were/are very active posters in the game.

I'm fairly confident in OGB being scum. Furthermore, if he is, like I think... at least one of those early votes is scum.

OozingGolfBall (12): roflcopter,

SpyreX

, ekiM, Mixologist, alvinz95, iamausername, tubby216, charter, Starbuck, Korts, Axelrod, Mufasa

If I were scum this is what I'd do: lampshade my actions to make them seem genuine and pre-empt accusations.

I'm gonna have to sleep before I can make up my mind. I'll get on IAUN and a deep analysis of SpyreX when I wake up.

[Korts]

I apologize, I haven't gotten any SpyreX/iamausername analysis done today.

@X: about the strawman, fair enough. I can accept that explanation.

Why the fuck are we voting Caboose? He is the last peson I'm going to be voting for a while.

QFT. As for why he isn't dead yet, tajo, that's a pretty stupid question. Tubby was protecting him up until now. Any intention to lynch Caboose right now, especially the way you're trying to twist things in 689, is likely scum doing some damage control before it's too late.

me thinks a town cop would at least want to be less obvious about his guilty result even in day 1, like you know, trying to not get night killed by the mafia partners of the guilty result you have or like, you know, trying to get another result.

He wasn't really that obvious--I've seen people with the same amount of conviction and nothing at all to back it up plenty of times.

Also, you explain the lack of an Italian doctor on their GF by saying that Caboose would've been a Russian target, even though he only claimed cop Day 2, and there were far more pro-town players than him around. What would've made him a prime Russian target after Day 1?

There's more that bothers me with that post, but I can't put my finger on it.

If Caboose still isn't dead tomorrow, I'm willing to consider his lynch, considering that there is no protective masonship and no protective JOAT anymore.

Currently I want to lynch one of tajo/SpyreX.

[Korts]

Caboose, I'm not setting up a chain lynch. I said I'm willing to

consider

lynching you if you're still alive tomorrow. Scum should now be able to kill you without having to worry about their kill failing--I doubt there would be three seperate protective abilities in the game.

tajo, I think Caboose is town. And I'm not sold on a massclaim yet.

[Korts]

Did that strike anyone else as a bit worried . . . then relief?

While I appreciate someone spotting this, and I will have a good defense that Caboose can hopefully back up when the time comes, I really don't like

how

you point this out.

"Did that strike anyone else as", really? On the one hand, it's stylistically disgusting; on the other, more relevant hand, it looks like you're trying to gauge the other players' stance toward the point you are trying to make before damning it or dismissing it.

And seriously, is the 21 minutes and the 12 minutes supposed to mean anything in regards to alignment, in your humble opinion? If so, I'd like a full elaboration on that.

---------------------------------------

Those arguing that there must be a Russian GF simply because TDC "likes symmetry" or whatever your outguess-the-mod reasoning was, have you considered that one GF was a member of the Upper Roccisi Neighbourhood, and the other member was a Multitasker? How does that fit into your worldview of symmetry?

I'd like to point out that outguessing the mod is futile when the mod is competent. And the mod is competent.

---------------------------------------

I'm interested to see how quickly X will be taking his vote off Caboose.

[Korts]

Reasons for SpyreX?

Read my posts please. I've made it pretty clear that I think he's Russian.

[Korts]

X: These quotes detail my suspicion:

ISO 10

is an analysis of his wagon: says that everyone on his wagon except

roflcopter

and

SpyreX

have "either wagonned, done little, or have acted scummy": this means

HowardRoark

,

darkdude

,

Axelrod

,

Mufasa

,

tubby

,

Starbuck

and

ekiM

. Makes me think that SpyreX might well be Russian, since all his reasoning with his vote on alvinz was was "Ohh see thats a different business all together"; before that, he makes no seperate mention of alvinz, only in quotes of vote counts. He does make a reference to "alvins", though, early on:

Caboose - what the hell is your fixation with an alvins wagon?

Again, motivations for Russians to ask this are obvious.

I'm going to say there's going to be AT LEAST 3 SCUM on my wagon.

Here's the final vote count on alvinz: alvinz95 (10):

HowardRoark

,

roflcopter

,

SpyreX

,

darkdude

,

Axelrod

,

Mufasa

,

tubby216

,

Starbuck

,

ekiM

,

X

Now, consider that

none

of the dead players so far on his wagon are scum. The players whose alignment we still don't know are: HowardRoark, SpyreX, ekiM, X. I find it unlikely that a Russian wouldn't bus this wagon hard after Caboose's claim, so I have to assume that there's a grain of truth in alvinz' post; I also think, however, that his final outcry was a last ditch attempt at helping his faction, and under the guise of frustration he tried to plant some seeds of paranoia. So according to this logic, if there's Russian scum, it's most likely between Howard/SpyreX/ekiM/X.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that SpyreX pulled an early bus on OGB and tried to ignore alvinz until the investigation claim forced him to do something. It's notable also that iamausername basically ignored SpyreX, making only a single passing comment on his suspicion list, even though both were/are very active posters in the game.

I'm fairly confident in OGB being scum. Furthermore, if he is, like I think... at least one of those early votes is scum.

OozingGolfBall (12): roflcopter,

SpyreX

, ekiM, Mixologist, alvinz95, iamausername, tubby216, charter, Starbuck, Korts, Axelrod, Mufasa

If I were scum this is what I'd do: lampshade my actions to make them seem genuine and pre-empt accusations.

---

Reasons for SpyreX?

Read my posts please. I've made it pretty clear that I think he's Russian.

4 Russians, Korst?
Why?

Why assume that there can only be three? I see a connection between SpyreX and the Russians; 4:4:15 is not really unbalanced, considering there's a lot of room for individual roles to even it out.

[Korts]

X, there you go again, ignoring some of the points I make and mentioning only those that are easily dismissed.

Here is a list of the things that make me suspicious of SpyreX, points listed by order of relevance/strength of evidence, important things bolded:

- alvinz ISO 10: he mentions

rofl and SpyreX as the exceptions

to the statement that everyone on his wagon has "either wagonned, done little, or [has] acted scummy". In contrast,

SpyreX's reason is no better

than a lot of the people who voted alvinz

simply because of Caboose's results

; there is also

no prior suspicion from SpyreX regarding alvinz

, in fact the

only

mention of alvinz from SpyreX is

- in SpyreX ISO 5, where

he tries to derail Caboose's early fixation with alvinz

.

- in alvinz' final outbreak post, he claims that there are at least 3 scum on his wagon; superimposing the dead players' list on the alvinz-voters' list, that leaves 3 out of 4. Even considering that there can't be 3 more Russian scum I doubt alvinz was completely bluffing; in addition I doubt that at that point (cop guilty on alvinz) Russians would have tried anything else but fervent bussing; therefore the assumption is that if there are any Russians left, which I suspect to be true, they're likely among the four living alvinz-voters. One of them is SpyreX.

- no relevant mention of SpyreX from iamausername, despite the fact that they were both active users.

The fact that he was on OGB's wagon pretty early could easily have been pre-planned for town cred, or otherwise an early realization that he was a useless weight on the Russian mafia's shoulders.

[Korts]

Korts, what do you think its more probable: another Russian or another Italian?

8 scum in a 23 players game, which include 3 unknown roles, 1 mafia doctor, 1 multitasker, 2 1-shot vigs, 1 godfather seems balanced to you?

Without knowing all the town power roles, there's no way to judge, and you should know that. It's not unlikely at all that it is balanced.

Why are you so intent on forcing me to hunt Italians specifically?

[Korts]

After some thinking, I agree that the best play is to not lynch him today. After all he is 100% a cop and you know information, etc.

I don't follow.

The explanation is that we have confirmation that he is a cop. Even if he is scum, he is a source of very easy to verify information.

It's not easily and publicly verifiable without another cop, or at least not before a lynch of his investigated target.

[Korts]

I'm a little behind after missing a couple of days, but can someone tell me why knowing which mafia group we're looking for matters?

The connections matter.

[Korts]

Ok, Im no expert in balancing things but all the scum we have seen so far have been power roles. 8 scum seems just too much.

While they have been power roles all of them, we don't know how much power the town has, and whether, for instance, a Multitasker is useful at all.

I think, based on balance alone, an Italian is more likely. Based on the interactions we've seen though, a Russian is just as probable.

[Korts]

Also, who do you think is Italian, then? You got into this argument with me, but it is not relevant to scumhunting in a direct way. I'm also not aware of you having any real suspicions, or at least you haven't expressed them. Who are your top suspects and why?

[Korts]

Me, I'm still on Spyrex, populartajo. In that order. SpyreX is Russianesque, while you're scummy simply of your own accord. I'd get rid of one NK altogether before I go any other way.

[Korts]

Charter and Caboose need to speak up.

[Korts]

Also, Howard, iamausername was Russian, not Italian. inHim was the Italian.

[Korts]

* inHimshallibe, charter, and Korts were all after Seraphim and Mufassa

Bordering on false. I never went against Mufasa barring a very short period where I thought he couldn't have known that his role was Jack of All Trades.

[Korts]

Hrm. I think I'll have to stop hounding for a Russian lynch. Balancewise it's not that probable, and no-one seems to agree with me that SpyreX is very much implied as a Russian.

vote: tajo

for previously expressed suspicions.

There's a reasonable case for a charter/Lowell Italian remnant. I'm willing to give my vote to charter or Lowell in lieu of a tajo wagon.

[Korts]

I'm not convinced of the Lowell claim's truthfulness. Seems an awful lot like a fakeclaim based on previous reveals/claims; this is especially true because based on the fact that Lowell claims not to be able to vouch for charter's alignment, it seems that their group name should be also something-something neighbourhood; yet he claims masons, not neighbours, which would be the first thing that would pop into my mind thinking of my hypothetical role PM.

What is your group name, Lowell?

Caboose, the weekend is almost over. Please don't continue to procrastinate. Either sit down now and catch up, or ask to be replaced--we need your input most of all.

Looking at the vote count: X and tajo, what the fuck are you doing still voting Caboose? The fact that our cop is lazy doesn't change the fact that he's like 95% confirmed as town. Me, I don't see the utility of a scum aligned alignment cop, so I don't see any argument for why his procrastination is scummy instead of simply anti-town. Are you encouraging a policy lynch on a role-confirmed cop?

tajo, charter, or Lowell here. X is a possibility too, although his Neighbour claim and his other actions and posts so far are mitigating factors; I also still endorse looking at a SpyreX flip.

[Korts]

Which ones?

The ones that I detail in my earlier posts. So go read them if you don't know what I mean.

What does everyone think of Korts?

This question reeks of scum. Are you looking for possible footholds because you feel threatened?

X, I agree that Caboose has given little other than his results--but you don't reply to my point that there is no utility in an anti-town alignment cop, and Caboose has proven himself to be an alignment cop already. Therefore he is almost fully confirmed.

[Korts]

Sorry for the lack of posting, I've had a messy week. I'll catch up this weekend.

[Korts]

Oh fuck.

unvote, vote: Lowell

[Korts]

Yeah well as far as game symmetry goes, do the two mafia families resemble each other at all?

[Korts]

Oh nice. Suddenly everyone is acting scummy. SpyreX setting up a chain of lynches without reasoning other than "this is a very important note"; tajo fishing hardcore for a role that need not be claimed; I'm seriously considering going back to tajo. I need to evaluate the claim properly.

[Korts]

Like I said, I can always go for a SpyreX lynch. Deadline lynch needs majority vote, so people should be voting a big wagon and those that are voting for 1-vote wagons are trying to shy away from responsibility by feigning conviction. X and SpyreX, that's you.

vote: SpyreX

[Korts]

To clarify, SpyreX, my vote definitely isn't "under the guise of" anything. My reasons are still the same, I simply want to shame people into wagoning. This is not the time for pussyfooting.

Also, I am not claiming yet. Perhaps tomorrow, if I live.

[Korts]

Alright. I'm a tracker/watcher jack-of-all-trades type role, and my abilities are the following: one shot each of tracker, watcher, amnesiac tracker, amnesiac watcher, tracker inventor, and watcher inventor. I also had a bulletproof vest, but I was shot on N0. Only the inventor abilities could be used on N0.

My targets are as follows:

N0 I used the watcher inventor on roflcopter.

N1 I tracked Seraphim. No result.

N2 I watched Caboose. I saw tubby visiting him, and you can see that my actions toward tubby were hostile up until his claim, where his target matched my results.

N3 I used amnesiac tracker on Axelrod, sending the results to Caboose, now Kison. Hopefully Kison can confirm the fact that his predecessor got the result; I breadcrumbed this in my first post after night 3, by asking Caboose whether he recieved anything else than his regular result.

Last night I unfortunately forgot to send an action, since I intended to sit down and thoroughly consider my options with an amnesiac watcher. I intended to watch Kison, but I wasn't really sure who I could send the results to.

So basically, I'm left with one shot each of amnesiac watcher and tracker inventor.

[Korts]

I also breadcrumbed being shot N0 when arguing that mafia should be assumed to have had a kill on N0 as well, not just consecutive nights.

I will come back with an analysis of the remaining players soon.

[Korts]

charter, why are you excluding Seraphim from your list of players? And no, ekiM is not in any claimed neighbourhood.

[Korts]

I will need to spend an afternoon with this game while to catch up and make up my mind. This won't be happening today, but it will happen sometime this week.

[Korts]

My thinking right now is that scum is one, possibly two of {ekiM;charter;Lowell}. I'm leaning towards ekiM right now, up next Lowell, and then charter.

X: I think it at least semi-confirms Kison that he backed me up. As scum the only motivation for it would be to further confirm himself as town, but at the pretty big cost of confirming a town player. I don't particularly think that would be a reasonable trade for scum at this point.

On Seraphim being NK-immune: while it would otherwise be a convenient fakeclaim for scum, coupled with the solo vig power of his neighbourhood it pretty much confirms him and leaves X's alignment questionable.

Seraphim: Did you inform X of your NK immunity before N0 was over? If not, when did you tell him? We might be able to account for a lost kill depending on your answer--we had a surprising lack of kills on N0 in retrospect.

tajo: please spell Howard's name correctly. It's not Rock, it's Roark, as in the protagonist of The Fountainhead. Thanks

Lowell 920: X justified his vote by claiming you're

active

lurking, not lurking in general. Active lurking is genuinely scummy.

Just a note to the town to be careful--Lowell is at L-1.

[Korts]

Yo ekiM, please don't misquote. I never told people to get off the Lowell wagon, that was tajo.

Nevermind, you corrected it

As for the reasoning for my suspicions, it's basically by process of elimination. Seaside Neigbourhood sounds the least likely, and Vanilla Townie is a conveniently easy fakeclaim.

Korts, in post 363 you say "Re: my being blocked, I confirm that it's likely I was blocked." You've claimed that N1 you tracked Seraphim and receieved no result. Why did that make it likely that you were blocked?

Because I literally recieved no result.

[Korts]

Yo ekiM, please don't misquote. I never told people to get off the Lowell wagon, that was tajo.

Nevermind, you corrected it

As for the reasoning for my suspicions, it's basically by process of elimination. Seaside Neigbourhood sounds the least likely, and Vanilla Townie is a conveniently easy fakeclaim.

Korts, in post 363 you say "Re: my being blocked, I confirm that it's likely I was blocked." You've claimed that N1 you tracked Seraphim and receieved no result. Why did that make it likely that you were blocked?

Because I literally recieved no result.

And what result would you get if Seraph hadnt done anything that night?

Ask Kison, he was the one who got the result of a Vanilla Townie's tracks.

[Korts]

I didn't assume, I said it was likely I was. I'd expect to be sent at least a "no result" if I wasn't blocked.

[Korts]

While I appreciate it . . . why? It doesn't really bother me. (I would have said something if it did.) Is it wrong to consider this buddying?

Two things: has the possibility occurred to you that it bothers

me

? It's one of my pet peeves that usernames be spelled the same way the user themselves spells it. And why would I be buddying up to you specifically? You are hardly an opinion leader.

I am always a bit anal with the wording of these warnings. Why are you warning "the town"? Are you not town? Why not "NOTE: Lowell is at L-1"? *HowardRoark braces for attacks*

This never was a scumtell; it's just empty play on words.

Howard, you claim the Italian mafia to be lacking in power roles when put in contrast with the Russians. Let's look at the dead mafiosi:

Italian: Godfather Neigbour, Doctor
Russian: 1-shot vig, 1-shot vig, Multitasker Neighbour

A scum protective role is a very powerful role; an investigation immune role in a game where it's pretty much certain now that there is a cop is also considerably powerful. Granted, two 1-shot vigs in the mafia are huge advantages to the faction, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that the Russian roles that have flipped are stronger than the Italians. They merely have different advantages.

I can't judge if this is simply inherent OMGUS against the flawed arguments that Howard presents in the case against me, but his 947 looks scummy to me. Is it likely that there are two Godfathers in the Italian mafia? Aside from conflicting flavour, of course; I doubt that TDC's purpose in making a modular game was to be as true to the original mafia flavour as possible.

[Korts]

I will hammer him a couple hours before deadline if nothing new happens until then.

[Korts]

I'm fairly comfortable with Seraphim's plan.

vote: X

[Korts]

Um, Howard, I was willing to hammer Lowell

to avoid another No Lynch.

That was pretty much self-explanatory. Seraphim's plan is simply better, especially since X-scum would explain the lack of another kill (beside my bulletproof vest) N0, if X wanted to gain the soloist vig ability.

[Korts]

My vote on X didn't do anything to the Lowell wagon, seeing as I wasn't on it.

I know my bulletproof was used because I got a PM that told me I was no longer bulletproof.

[Korts]

X: did Seraphim know of your Bulletproof Vests?

[Korts]

Not good news. Why didn't you claim the Vests when people started confirming Seraphim for being part of your neighbourhood and you being still alive?

[Korts]

W00t. Good call lynching Kison; I have a hard time seeing utility in a scum cop, multiple scum factions or not.

Thanks TDC for an awesome game with an awesome setup, and thanks to the players for making it an enjoyable game.