Mafia 93 - A Roccisi Summer - Over!

[X]

.... Wow. If that is an accurate paraphrase it just reeks of scum.

On which side?

I was not impressed by your case on populartajo

That's fine . . . I'm not looking for anyone's kudos. It's my method.

But you should be trying to convince me.

I've started my reread. No one hammer in the next 24 hours, please. I don't want to not get my thoughts out there before night.

Fair enough.

Unvote: darkdude

.

X: this post addresses charter's obsession with Mufasa, among others.

But why are they 12 pages apart?

And that is how the weak case works . . . suddenly we get Korts boiling it down to OMGUS and iamusername tearing it apart. Do those two names sound familiar? Oh yeah, they were on my watch list. All just pieces of the puzzle.

Do you address the criticisms? No. Just who is doing the criticizing. This is called ad hominem, it is a logical fallacy, and I believe that it is a scumtell when it is someone's only defense.

FoS: HowardRoark

.

(I Am, I know that you hate FoSing without having a vote on someone, but you're just gonna have to accept it, because I don't want the Day to end just yet).

[SpyreX]

Sera's side. I'll explain it when I ahve some real time.

[HowardRoark]

The "connection" between alvinz95 and I: I have already said that is hilarious because it would be a horrible play for a scum to implicate a partner in such a method. Those putting stock in this "connection" are on the wrong side of this.

My mistakes concerning populartajo's scum list are honest. I have admitted these mistakes. What more do you want from me on that?

As for me drawing attention away from darkdude, I can see that some people may see it that way. My point was that populartajo has been repeatedly asking for my lynch. I have not called for someone else to be lynched in darkdude's place. I don't mind his lynch as I don't have a better candidate at this point.

The OMGUS comment stems from the fact that my second allegation was not addressed.

The idea is for populartajo to react to my case in order to have a better read on him. The bonus is when others do it for him. That's how real connections are made.

_______________
Let's go Pens!

[Korts]

And that is how the weak case works . . . suddenly we get Korts boiling it down to OMGUS and iamusername tearing it apart. Do those two names sound familiar? Oh yeah, they were on my watch list. All just pieces of the puzzle.

So you admit to having presented a weak case, but apparently believe that the people who point it out can only be doing so with a hidden agenda? You are drawing connections between completely unrelated matters--how big a motivation do you imagine being on your "watch list" is gonna be for scum to dismantle your every argument?

I'd like to see a reaction from Seraphim to what X has posted as a paraphrase of the neighborhood's night talk. Right now, I'd have to say that it looks pretty bad for Seraphim: indifference when X was wary of him being mafia, role fishing, etc.

Can you shut the hell up until Seraphim confirms or denies X's story? You're basically feeding him lines.

But why are they 12 pages apart?

Like I said, I am familiar with charter's play, and when he latches onto early game anti-town behaviour he's prone to not let go either until there are drastic changes in climate or the guy is lynched. After Mufasa was all but confirmed and yet he kept pushing his lynch I called him out. Before that he was just playing like he always does.

.... Wow. If that is an accurate paraphrase it just reeks of scum.

How?

For fuckssake, at least pretend to want to help.

[Korts]

Sera's side. I'll explain it when I ahve some real time.

Seriously, don't. Not until Seraphim confirms or denies that what X said is an accurate paraphrase of their discussion.

[darkdude]

For fuckssake, at least pretend to want to help.

Excuse me for feeling guilty for being a useless player.

I don't think it's of any use to replace out at this stage, right?

[SpyreX]

@Dark:

I am totally serious. You're going to be lynched. IF you are town (which I doubt), just read along and when its done I (and others I'd imagine) would be more than happy to explain what is up.

[ekiM]

For fuckssake, at least pretend to want to help.

Excuse me for feeling guilty for being a useless player.

I don't think it's of any use to replace out at this stage, right?

See when you apologized for not being productive yesterday and said you would try harder, I was cool with that. But you've done little since then.

[Axelrod]

Darkdude feels to me right now exactly the same way OGB did. I'm happy to wait for Lowel to get caught up, but I don't see my vote going anywhere else.

[Korts]

For fuckssake, at least pretend to want to help.

Excuse me for feeling guilty for being a useless player.

I don't think it's of any use to replace out at this stage, right?

Seriously, don't replace out. You're gonna be lynched anyway, in all likeliness.

What I want to see from you is some effort. Do some player analysis, let us see who you think is scum, ANYTHING. If you feel guilty for being useless, you should try doing something against it, instead of posting questions that serve no practical purpose in terms of scumhunting.

Also, if you're lynched and turn up town, you'd be doing the whole town a favor by giving us a complete and unabridged version of your thoughts beforehand.

[darkdude]

I call it the morale snowball effect. Right now I'm lagging so much in this game it seems impossible to catch up. Should have replaced out earlier I suppose.

Also, if you're lynched and turn up town, you'd be doing the whole town a favor by giving us a complete and unabridged version of your thoughts beforehand.

That's what I've been doing basically. I post whatever comes to mind (which isn't much, obviously).

[Lowell]

Starting from the beginning. Usually I don't do this, but I'm going to use post hoc info while reading through.

20s- rofl and sera lead oozing wagon [+, obv]
29, 31- rofl and sera acknowledge each other [mason buddies]
46- caboose joins iamausername in voting alvinz [+]
49- korts votes sera [-, derailment of ogb wagon]
76- mufasa bizairrely claims "Jack of All Trades" [turns out to be true...]
93- IAUN points out mufasa wouldn't know his name [++, wrong, obv, but good logic]
94- charter agrees
101- caboose defends mufasa's claim
104- IAUN chides caboose for playing OGB's game [+]
127- axel cites precedence to say mufasa is crazy, not scummy [+, would be EASY to jump on this wagon!]
128- Spyrex votes OGB [+, policy lynch]
133- ekim votes OGB
134- mix votes mufasa [-, opportunistic, right after OGB threat]
136- starbuck votes mufasa
138- inhim votes caboose
142- rofl explains mufasa's motivation [+, true]
156- mufasa and OGB tied w/ 4 votes
157- skitzer votes mufasa [-, derailment?]
181- sera agrees w/ rofl, votes skitzer [-, derailment of OGB]
180s- caboose ominously warns all to lynch alvinz [+, role?]
190- good post my howard, votes korts for bad case on sera [+]
196- spy keeps pushing OGB wagon, questions others [+ +]
204- IAUN votes skitzer for pushing mufasa wagon [+]
208- inhim votes sera
210- rofl supports death for OGB, sera, or skitzer
211- spy continues to support rofl
213- mixologist votes OGB [+, good save to post 134]
225- inhim votes OGB, says howard and korts same faction
231- X jumps from OGB, votes mufasa [??? why?]
232- alvinz votes OGB
253- mufasa leads w/ 7 votes, OGB 5
269- X, uh, again unvotes, votes mufasa [-, ???]
277- sera votes inhim [+, not italian]
282- IAUN votes OGB [+, regains bandwagon momentum]
286- rofl gives scumlist
303- OGB leads w/ 6 votes (rofl, spy, ekim, mix, alvinz, IAUN)
315- tubby votes OGB
323- charter abadons mufasa, votes OGB
324- starbuck joins OGB wagon
330- OGB offers no defense
331- korts votes OGB
334- howard votes darkdude [???]
335- axel votes OGB due to 330 [+]
340- mufasa votes OGB, hammers
345- scum die horrible deaths (OGB-russian; ThAdmiral/inhim- Italian)
357- rofl votes sera
359- charter votes axel
363- korts votes sera
367- tajo votes sera
368- starbuck votes sera
369- spy votes starbuck
371- mufasa votes sera
372- rofl points out all scum on mufasa, argues against killing him [+]
380- sera quasi-claims mason
395- howard votes alvinz, no explaination
414- alvinz votes caboose
417- spy votes sera
419- tubby votes starbuck
421- tajo uses back info to determine alignment [+, mostly]
422- tajo votes caboose
430- caboose has role-based info skitzer is scum, and alvinz is scum
431- rofl switches, vote alvinz
432- spy join alvinz wagon
434- darkdude votes alvinz
435- axel votes alvinz
436- mufasa votes alvinz
437- tubby votes alvinz
438- starbuck votes alvinz
439- ekim votes alvinz
452- alvinz leads w/ 9 votes
464- alvinz submits last-minute defense
465- X hammers [+]
alvinz dies, scum, several others die, town
483- charter votes darkdude for trying to save alvinz [-]
484- ekim votes darkdude for defending both russians [+]
492- tajo votes howard for alvinz dying speech [-, disagree, think this clears howard of being russian]
500- tubby claims rofl's mason partner
515- tajo promotes massclaim [+, gut feeling]
521- spy votes darkdude
526- dark admits to "faking" to look town [+, gut feeling]
527- howard votes tajo
528- sera votes darkdude
529- X votes darkdude
532- IAUN votes darkdude
535- DD claims vanilla
539- korts votes sera
540- ekim votes sera
556- sera claims to have a gun, but can't use it [+, gut feeling]
557- caboose votes sera
559- sera elaborates [+]
562- caboose unvotes, votes dd
567- spy votes sera
579- tubby votes sera for half-assed claim [+]
584- X claims sera's partner
586- spy votes dd
607- korts votes DD, lynch -1
626- DD leads w/ 7 votes

Thoughts as I read:

axel- town. Post 127 would NEVER be made by a scum, in light of mufasa's alignment

rofl- for the second game in a row, is my hero

korts- possible derailment of OGB wason in 49, scum w/ OGB?

tubby- strong townvibe from his few posts, post 500 confirms

charter- ditto on townvibe

caboose- TOWN. probably not italian (singled out by inhim out of nowhere), definatly not russian (first to point finger at alvinz)

spyrex- DEFINATELY not russian, led the wagon on OGB w/ rofl. Very town, but follows rofl a lot

sera- possible partner to OGB, not partner to inhim (277). I buy the claim.

X- possible partner to OGB based on 231, OBVIOUS derailment. his confirmation of sera is a point in his favor. scum could have easily exploited it as an opportunity to call his partner confirmed town

darkdude- probably not russian (434); in spite of myself, 526 makes me think he's town

tajo- get a strong town vibe from his D3 posts

Some thoughts:
1) Count me among those sold by DD's hilarious explanation in 526. WIFOM notwithstanding, it's almost too bizarre to fake
2) I don't buy the case on Sera either. His claim fits with what we know from his partner, and I doubt he'd create such a convoluted defense if he weren't sure it would exonerate him.
3) Some pro-town players:
Spy
populartajo
caboose
tubby
4) Some scummy players:
korts
howard

I'll vote for DD if it comes down to it, since his role seems to be meaningless, but there are better options. I'd like to see pressure here.

vote korts

[Korts]

Seriously, Lowell, what's your case? That I didn't stick with the early game wagon? I had better cases to pursue. OGB is only obvscum from retrospect--his actions were simply passively anti-town. Seraphim, on the other hand, was and is actively scummy, so the accusation of derailment is laughable. If anything, the OGB wagon was a distraction to the Seraphim wagon--the fact that OGB turned out to be scum is irrelevant, since we have multiple factions.

caboose- TOWN. probably not italian (singled out by inhim out of nowhere), definatly not russian (first to point finger at alvinz)

If you feel confident enough in your read that you categorically, with capital letters, claim Caboose to be town, why go on to say "probably not italian [...] definitely not russian"? To elaborate, your first sentence seems to imply that you're sure he's town--then you go on to say that he's

probably

not italian; this kind of wishy-washiness really bugs me.

I also don't understand how you got a strong town vibe from tubby's posts--he's pseudo-confirmed by game mechanic, but his play has not been amazing. I'd like you to quote those posts that gave you these strong town vibes, and try to explain which parts and why.

Are you aware that when you gave Mixologist minus points you were saying you yourself were scummy?

Also note these quotes:

korts- possible derailment of OGB wason in 49, scum w/ OGB?

[...]

X- possible partner to OGB based on 231, OBVIOUS derailment. his confirmation of sera is a point in his favor. scum could have easily exploited it as an opportunity to call his partner confirmed town

[...]

4) Some scummy players:
korts
howard

Note the complete absence of X on the scummy players list, despite a big difference in tone when making the same accusation you make against me. Even taking into account that you take his confirmation of Seraphim as a point in his favor, the accusation you make against me is "possible derailment", and the accusation against X is "OBVIOUS derailment", and a minor point that I personally see equal motivation for doesn't give X enough town cred to counterpoint the seriousness of your accusation.

[Lowell]

@korts- I had X in my scummy list as well until 584, which struck me as very pro-town. I don't really know what to do with him now. People who aren't on the lists aren't cleared, they're just the ones I don't have clear reads on. I agree that he looked scummy prior to the OGB wagon (231 and 269 in particular look like derailment)

Regarding caboose, I was making the notes as I read. I came first to the conclusion that he wasn't russian (too early and too pointless to bus alvinz out of nowhere) then that he wasn't italian (likewise, inhim targeted him completely out of the blue and they really got into it). I synthesized that (plus his being right about alvinz) to call him town.

And yes, I realized as I got to the later pages that mixologist is me. I didn't have much to say about him one way or the other while he was in, though, so I figured what the hell, might as well leave my thoughts as is for accuracy's sake. If for no other reason, interactions with him reveal more if I keep an honest account of his playstyle and my (non-biased) view of it prior to taking over the role.

[Axelrod]

All right, Lowell has had his say. I don't find anything hugely scummy in what he has posted so far. I'm not a far of big summary type lists (anymore, but I confess I used to be, so not reading anything into that), but I do think the fact he was evaluating his former self along with everyone else is a point in favor.

Vote: Darkdude

I'm ready to move on.

[X]

The "connection" between alvinz95 and I: I have already said that is hilarious because it would be a horrible play for a scum to implicate a partner in such a method. Those putting stock in this "connection" are on the wrong side of this.

My mistakes concerning populartajo's scum list are honest. I have admitted these mistakes. What more do you want from me on that?

As for me drawing attention away from darkdude, I can see that some people may see it that way. My point was that populartajo has been repeatedly asking for my lynch. I have not called for someone else to be lynched in darkdude's place. I don't mind his lynch as I don't have a better candidate at this point.

The OMGUS comment stems from the fact that my second allegation was not addressed.

The idea is for populartajo to react to my case in order to have a better read on him. The bonus is when others do it for him. That's how real connections are made.

Just because it's horrible play doesn't mean it's impossible to be done. You "wouldn't mind" lynching your best candidate for scum? That's really odd.

Excuse me

for feeling guilty

for being a useless player.

Fixed. And this is assuming that you're town, which is unlikely.

Lowell, perhaps the whole first part of your post helped you, but I got nothing out of it. Don't like this:

3) Some pro-town players:
Spy
populartajo
caboose
tubby

You've heard this before: don't tell the scum who to kill. And although I wouldn't prefer that you were voting me, it is very odd what Korts pointed out at the end of 662. And as I've said before, I hadn't seen OGB either way.

Vote: darkdude

.

[Lowell]

@X- Scum are looking for scum just like the rest of us. I appreciate the compliment that they'll decide who to kill based on my list, though I somehow doubt it.

@axel- the post by post is useful to me, helps me remember things when I look over it at the end and see bigger trends.

In other news, I echo axel. The dd kill is fine.

[TDC]

Lynch one Russian: [x]
Lynch two Russians: [x]
Lynch three Russians: [ ]

Final Vote Count of Day 3

darkdude (8): iamausername, charter, Seraphim, Caboose, SpyreX, Korts, Axelrod. X

Seraphim (1): tubby216
HowardRoark (1): populartajo
populartajo (1): HowardRoark

Not Voting (3): darkdude, Lowell, ekiM

Lynch

darkdude, Vanilla Townie, Town

:

• Active Abilities:
  • none
• Passive Abilities:
  • none
• Groups:
  • none
• Victory Condition: You win when all anti-town forces are eliminated.

Status

It is now Night 3. You've saved 5 days for tomorrow.
Deadline: Tuesday, June 16th, 20:00 CEST (GMT+2).

[TDC]

I'll not be able to end the night at or near the given deadline. You'll have to wait until tomorrow. (I've lost internet at home..)

[TDC]

Another one bites the dust.

Deaths: Axelrod, iamausername, tubby216

Axelrod, Vanilla Townie, Town

:

• Active Abilities:
  • none
• Passive Abilities:
  • none
• Groups:
  • none
• Victory Condition: You win when all anti-town forces are eliminated.

iamausername, 1-Shot Vigilante, Member of The Russian Mafia

:

• Active Abilities:
  • Vigilante:
    • 1-Shot
• Passive Abilities:
  • none
• Groups:
  • The Russian Mafia:
    • classified
• Victory Condition:
  classified

tubby216, Mason, Member of The Roccisi Masonry, Town

:

• Active Abilities:
  • none
• Passive Abilities:
  • none
• Groups:
  • The Roccisi Masonry:
    • classified
• Victory Condition: You win when all anti-town forces are eliminated.

Status

It is now Day 4.
This day will last 17 days.
Deadline: Saturday, July 4th, 9:30 CEST (GMT+2)
6 to lynch.

[Korts]

Caboose, what did you get tonight?

[Caboose]

Howard is godfather or town.

[Korts]

Nothing else, then.

Hm. I need a reread.

[X]

Howard is godfather or town.

Nothing else, then.

This doesn't seem like surprise to me.

Me? I think that HowardRoark could very likely be the Russian Godfather.

darkdude, Vanilla Townie, Town

*facepalm*

Need to look at I Am's posts.

[Korts]

*facepalm*

What purpose does this comment serve?