Mini 743: Sanity Ensues - Over!

[hohum]

/confirm

[hohum]

1.Tom
2.hohum
3.alexhans
4.ZEEnon
5.Charrat
6.Green Crayons
7.Artem
8.seb456zig
9.Magus_Stragus
10.Azhrei

Original Roll String: 1d10

1 10-Sided Dice: (10) = 10

[hohum]

Vote: Charrat

[hohum]

Are you trying to cover up your scumbuddy Hohum?

OMGUS-by-proxy? You really are reaching for conclusions right now.

FoS: Artem

[hohum]

I think Hohum lacks a sense of humor. (Hence the dice voting?)

@Magus: Apologies. I thought you were saying that you didn't understand sanities.

Unvote

@Alex: You're FoSing yourself because you already know you're scum and you're just letting us all know because you secretly wish you were a townie.

Vote: Alex

He clearly screwed the tags up, and wasn't really FoSing himself.

@Hohum: Will you kindly provide your definition of OMGUS, please?

I don't understand why you pulled me into it, that's what I meant by "OMGUS-by-proxy"

I really completely fail to see how you made the correlation between us.

[hohum]

I know I'm probably going to catch a little flak for this but I'm going to go ahead and:

Unvote

Vote: Artem

Because I just can't ignore 3 scum tells in 2 pages. I was in one of your first games too, so I know that you know better.

My justification is of course:

1) A serious vote this early in day 1. Seriously? And over a stupid reason too: Screwed up quote tags. This demonstrates that you don't really care enough about scum hunting to actually pay any real attention to this thread.

FoS: alexhans for having double standards. I've been posting in other games too

2) Seriously? Tunnel vision?

Are you trying to cover up your scumbuddy Hohum?

3) He was talking within the context of a Meta read on me. How is that defending me from any onslaught of attack? My vote was RANDOM and I think people will get that.

[hohum]

So if Artem's post was sarcastic why did he CHANGE HIS VOTE?

[hohum]

No I wasn't talking about that game and actually I confused you with someone else.

That game is a horrible example.

Tunnel Vision: Concentrating on one person, ignoring everything else around you, as you seem to be doing to Alexhans right now.

[hohum]

I don't know. I think Artem is very scummy, but I seem to be in the minority on that opinion right now. I'll let it go until I see him drop more tells.

I don't really buy that his attack on Alex is anything other than a serious attack, because it certainly didn't come off as sarcastic to me.

i sure hope that self-vote on hohum's part
is a mistake, and not a scheme on Green Crayon's
part in order to make it seem like hohum
has more votes than he actually does .
&& why aren't YOU voing Magus_Stragus ?
(sorry if i seem 'mean', it's just you don't
really think before you post, or at least,
you make it seem to be that way .

[b}LOOK[/b] at the top of this page, bro. My vote is on Artem, not myself.

Unvote

FoS: ZEEnon

for fabricating quotes.

[hohum]

I didn't read the mod's comments about editing the cote count above. I withdraw my last comment.

[hohum]

oh okay good,
i was about to change my vote ..

Curious, why would you changed your vote instead of simply calling me out with a FoS, HoS or IGMEOY? And how could you be certain that you made the correct choice 3 pages in to day 1?

[hohum]

@hohum: whats an IGMEOY, im guessing its a stronger version of a hos, but anyway...

@people accusing me of lurking: i hope you realise I dont spend all day on the computer, and when i am on the computer i would only check forums once. Dont you (Magus) think that voting a supposed lurker isnt smart this early in the game. Isnt it too early to even lurk? anyway...

FoS:Magus

because of trying to get me bandwagond for no real reason. Inactivity isnt a scumtell in my book, but i think posts that dont help the town are (like your one).

Could you please explain your logic on voting me so early in the game?

(i repeat myself a lot, sorry about that. Its a habit.)

1) IGMEOY means I've got my eye on you. It's like a step below FoS (IMHO)

2) It's still pretty early in D1 to be throwing votes around behind hard evidence -- and I'm all for wagoning people to get them to drop scum tells. I don't think necessarily Magus' approach is any less correct than the way it's usually been done

3) Actively lurking actually is a scum tell and that isn't a matter of opinion.

IGMEOY

It'll be interesting to see how you play from here on out.

[hohum]

I don't mean to answer for ZEEnon, but to add my cents to discussion, I know that I don't really use FoS (Finger of Suspicion), HoS (Hand of Suspicion), or IGMEOY (I've Got My Eye On You)

because I don't really see them as actually accomplishing anything. I know that it lets people know that you want to hear them respond, but if they are reading the thread, they should be responding to you anyways. They essentially do nothing, and instead I ask people questions or expect them to keep up with the discussion. Also, a vote doesn't mean you necessarily want to lynch them; pressure voting is a good way to replace FoS/HoS/IGMEOY and actually applying real pressure with a tangible vote instead of one of those three things.

I disagree with you here. In the course of the normal mechanics of a conversation people tend to ignore fine details which inherently means some stuff gets missed. That's why we emphasize certain points, and that's the role that HoS, FoS and IGMEOY play.

Further, your instinct was right. You shouldn't be attempting to answer other people's questions. In the normal flow of a face-to-face conversation that is considered bad practice. Feel free to comment on someone else's answer, but don't jump in on their behalf -- it's just bad form.

[hohum]

Well, my opinion on that, just my opinion, is that I don't like. I find harder to read the way you post, ZEEnon. However, I'm not demanding you to change it or anything like that, just saying my little opinion.

you have a right to voice
your opinion, Magus_Stragus .
i would think it would make
it easier for you. it reduces
the distance you have to move your eyes .
but nevermind that, we are off-topic .

I don't think people moving their eyes around is the problem -- and if it were I would say those are some of the laziest people on the planet.

The problem is when you chop a sentence up you interrupt its natural flow. It forces the reader to insert an artificial pause.

Afterall, nobody, types, like, this, do, they?

[hohum]

I disagree with you here. In the course of the normal mechanics of a conversation people tend to ignore fine details which inherently means some stuff gets missed. That's why we emphasize certain points, and that's the role that HoS, FoS and IGMEOY play.

But its not like when you bring up a mistake that someone made, question their opinion/view, or chastise them, you're working with fine details that someone would ignore. If someone brings you up, you pay attention. I usually view FoS/HoS as unnecessary. Its basically... soft-voting. You can do that with remarks. I'm not saying they're useless, as obviously people use them often, but they literally do something that regular accusations can do.

I'm not chastising anyone, and you'd be surprised what people ignore through the course of a normal conversation. These games get long and very detailed and there's a LOT for someone to miss.

[hohum]

It's also good sometimes just to let people know that you know they're full of shit, even if you're not going to vote them off RIGHT THIS SECOND

[hohum]

Well. I want to contribute but really don't find much to say... Everyone seems to explain they're votes as Pressure votes so we can't jump at them...

I'm sure if you went back and re-read the thread you could find SOMETHING to comment on. It isn't like we're still 3 pages in and just coming out of the random voting stage or something

I also don't believe that a bit of inactivity is a scum tell. Experienced

players won't go lurking if they're scum in fear of being replaced. They may add little to the conversation though.

This is exactly what you just did.

Who hasnt voted yet? Why?

See my comment above about re-reading the thread.

In short:

Vote: alexhans

[hohum]

Thanks for the OMGUS FOS, now I have more than just your comment to go on.

[hohum]

as i stated earlier,
i don't have enough to go by
in order to vote .
but if i DON'T vote,
people will view it as suspicious .
so my vote with remain with Artem,
until something comes along
to change my opinion .

This is called parking your vote.

Tunnel Vision: Concentrating on one person, ignoring everything else around you, as you seem to be doing to Alexhans right now.

So you quote me bringing you into the picture and call it tunnel-visioning on Alex? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, mind citing the game and the player that you confused me with?

You're not looking as scummy to me as you did now that I'm taking Alex's most recent posts into context. I (for whatever reason) confused you with Azi in Open 69.

-Daniel

[hohum]

You have no problems flinging your vote around, yet somehow you feel that you deserve a special treatment. What's with the double standards?

It was a probing question, I ask it all the time.

[hohum]

You have no problems flinging your vote around, yet somehow you feel that you deserve a special treatment. What's with the double standards?

It was a probing question, I ask it all the time.

Please don't answer questions on behalf of other people. You're more than welcome comment and call my motives into question AFTER he answers it.

[hohum]

Well it's obvious that I'm going to go down in flames.

I've already explained why I called Artem's move an OMGUS. I've tried to probe for information but every question I ask gets picked apart before it can get answered. There's scum on my wagon, methinks.

I stand by my reasoning for flip-flopping on Artem. It's too early in the game to have any concrete suspicions, that's what makes it so easy for me to abandon my initial suspicions.

[hohum]

I checked that explanation, and I don't really find it satisfactory. And yes, there probably is scum on your wagon somewhere, or will be soon. Regardless of your alignment, it'd be a stupid partner (or partners, as the case may be) that didn't recognize that the town was leaning towards you being scum already.

And you really haven't answered much else I (and others) have said. I'd suggest perhaps quoting my post, because I think it contains most of the arguments against you, and answering each accusation. But you know, that's just what I think.

I have attempted to answer your questions, along with everyone else's. You reject my explanations. It's not going to matter what I say to you, so why bother trying? You're just going to sit there and twist and contort my posts until they mean exactly what YOU want them to mean -- I'm scum.

[hohum]

2. ZEEnon & possibly hohum. ZEEnon plays a lot like Chuck Norris did in my first game (go look me up and META!!!) I dont have any of my own reasons for hohum but others seem to think he's realy scummie and when i find any scum behavior

BAM

one point for the town, but until then ima listen to his reasoning.

i like how i'm suspected because i act
like someone else you know
from a previous game .
*imitates childish voice*
bad people wear black..
you wear black..
your a BAD person ! :O
(there is no difference between your
post, and this childish remark)

i also find it funny
how people are suspecting me
due to me mentioning this
is my first game . that is a very
scumish thing to say playing online i guess .
at least i'm learning new things .......

Can you PLEASE stop posting in this manner. Nobody else on the site does it.

[hohum]

i don't conform .

The funny thing about anti-conformists is that they don't realize if you're always moving in the exact opposite direction of the herd, then they're still dictating your movements; now aren't they?

Seriously, stop it. You're not just being "the cool kid" by doing that, you're making it difficult for people to read your posts by disrupting the flow of your sentences.

[hohum]

but not conforming,
i'm doing just the opposite,
trying NOT to be "the cool kid" .
you contradicted yourself there .
i'm no longer replying to posts
about my typing style,
it's now against my newly-made religion .

God you're a raging faggot. The only thing good about this game is that I'm going to be lynched today.

[hohum]

I checked that explanation, and I don't really find it satisfactory. And yes, there probably is scum on your wagon somewhere, or will be soon. Regardless of your alignment, it'd be a stupid partner (or partners, as the case may be) that didn't recognize that the town was leaning towards you being scum already.

And you really haven't answered much else I (and others) have said. I'd suggest perhaps quoting my post, because I think it contains most of the arguments against you, and answering each accusation. But you know, that's just what I think.

I have attempted to answer your questions, along with everyone else's. You reject my explanations. It's not going to matter what I say to you, so why bother trying? You're just going to sit there and twist and contort my posts until they mean exactly what YOU want them to mean -- I'm scum.

Your attempts haven't been obvious to me, sorry. Please quote them. (Quotes are king and god) I, myself, am quite happy to read your explanations. And I hate it when people say I twist things, because I try my best not to. And no, I'm not convinced you're scum, you're just the person I consider to be scummiest so far. If you provide me with decent why you aren't scum, I will most likely unvote, and go my merry way scumhunting elsewhere, and keep my eye on you. Until then, I'm gonna keep voting you.

Fair enough?

You've already rejected most of what I've had to say outright. I know you'll probably dismiss this reply as evasive too. It's alright -- keep wagoning me -- lynch me. I don't mind taking one for the team. That way when I flip everyone will see you for what you really are: opportunistic and scummy.

7 pages into day 1? And you're already convinced?

*facepalm*

[hohum]

I checked that explanation, and I don't really find it satisfactory. And yes, there probably is scum on your wagon somewhere, or will be soon. Regardless of your alignment, it'd be a stupid partner (or partners, as the case may be) that didn't recognize that the town was leaning towards you being scum already.

And you really haven't answered much else I (and others) have said. I'd suggest perhaps quoting my post, because I think it contains most of the arguments against you, and answering each accusation. But you know, that's just what I think.

I have attempted to answer your questions, along with everyone else's. You reject my explanations. It's not going to matter what I say to you, so why bother trying? You're just going to sit there and twist and contort my posts until they mean exactly what YOU want them to mean -- I'm scum.

Your attempts haven't been obvious to me, sorry. Please quote them. (Quotes are king and god) I, myself, am quite happy to read your explanations. And I hate it when people say I twist things, because I try my best not to. And no, I'm not convinced you're scum, you're just the person I consider to be scummiest so far. If you provide me with decent why you aren't scum, I will most likely unvote, and go my merry way scumhunting elsewhere, and keep my eye on you. Until then, I'm gonna keep voting you.

Fair enough?

You've already rejected most of what I've had to say outright. I know you'll probably dismiss this reply as evasive too. It's alright -- keep wagoning me -- lynch me. I don't mind taking one for the team. That way when I flip everyone will see you for what you really are: opportunistic and scummy.

7 pages into day 1? And you're already convinced?

*facepalm*

no offense hohum, i think you seem genuine, (although i'm really gullible) but the only reason i haven't switched my vote to you is because you made your account on my birthday. i think it's in your best interests to defend/ explain yourself. please don't give up. it kind of ruins the game and makes us all feel sort of depressed when you just give yourself up like that. also putting Azhrei on the spot like that can only 'cause trouble. i've been in a game where everyone was completely against me, but i defended myself calmy, and we eventually lynched the real scum. by giving up like that, you only give us all the more reason to suspect you. (haha this post sounds so emotional, sorry it seems that way)

A) I'm not "just giving up." I'm making a sacrifice in order to out scum. One townie for one scum is a fair trade. If we can do that on a daily basis, we win and scum goes home.

B) I've already answered every question that everyone has asked of me. The only reason you and Azhrei can't see that is because you're both reading selectively. You've dismissed the answers I've given you and have defaulted back into this mode of asking your questions over and over again.

Artem will probably chime in and push for me to be wagoned some more. I truly believe he's honestly trying to be helpful though.

[hohum]

I've answered everyone's questions already. Seriously, this game is only 7 pages long. Stop being lazy and reread.

And don't compare me to panzer again. He's a raging faggot. That's the quickest way to get me to ask to be replaced.

[hohum]

@Alex: I also happen to know which game you're talking about and talking about ongoing games is a BIG NO NO, so cut it out.

[hohum]

got prodded. I'm around waiting to be lynched.

[hohum]

My apologies. I need to reread the last few pages and I will something a bit more useful by the end of the day.

[hohum]

zeenon has gone from making very bad posts to very good ones. bravo.

[hohum]

This topic has become a seb vs ZEE personal fight.

I don't find anything else to add, so that's why my lack of posting.

I tend to agree here. I don't like petty arguments in mafia games that span multiple pages. It makes both players come out looking scummier in the end and it distracts the rest of the town from doing any real scum hunting. Let's try to contain our thoughts to a few larger posts.

[hohum]

I've posted a few random thoughts and I am interested in this game. I still believe I've answered most of your questions to the best of my ability. You simply reject my explanations and want me to give more.

I could post some analysis, likely to be shot down.

Seriously, what do you guys want me to do?

[hohum]

I agree with Azhrei and charrat about Hohum's attitude... he seems to be confortably laying low and that is always worrying.

If you think that then lynch me. I have a stance on policy lynches and I enjoy talking about this subject whenever it comes up. I wouldn't blame anyone for lynching me, if they honestly believe I'm purposefully trying to lay low this game.

Mostly my attitude stems from a lack of desire for self-preservation. I know my role and I know even if I do get lynched there's a good chance that positive things will come out of it, and allow you guys to effectively scum hunt tomorrow, instead of tying yourselves up into WIOFMy knots about whether or not I should be lynched.

I'm going to reiterate and maintain my stance about the various "questioning" that everyone says I'm ignoring. I have -- and to the best of my abilities -- attempted to address everyone's concerns. When I do post something in defense of myself it is typically dismissed and the questions are repeated. It's a cycle intended to be sufficiently vague enough to appear helpful but at the same time making it impossible for me to respond effectively.

As for my lack of posting recently: I don't want to be in the pilot seat if all I'm going to do is draw fire over my actions.

[hohum]

Lynching a townie is NEVER good Hohum.

So if you claim to be pro town why do you keep asking us to lynch you? make an effort for the town and play this game with all your ability.

Fallacy. Lynching towines is not a bad thing if it exposes scum, or if a townie's play is actually detrimental to the town.

This game was designed so that mis-lynches can occur in town victory scenarios.

[hohum]

Well... I don't know... Are you saying your play is detrimental for the town? I suppose not... And how on earth your death is supposed to expose scum? by looking at who voted you? or what? I think that if you told us your suspicions while you're alive (instead of us guessing after lynching you) I would be awesome...

Yes, looking at who was pushing my wagon would be one way to tell, but you usually have to look at such things in the context of two wagons to find commonality instead of one.

Another way to weed out scum would be to look at who I've had direct conflict with. So far I've had the most direct conflict with you, and artem -- though Artem began to look pro town to me a while ago.

I'm just wondering why you're suddenly so concerned about me when seb's wagon is looking perfectly sustained right now. I have answered every question thrown at me (although it's clear that nobody likes my answers) and I wake up when prodded. I will answer any questions directed at me, and I will continue to contribute opinions when I feel it is appropriate for me to chime in.

I feel like that time is now. You seem to be trying to provide a little bit of misdirection here. Asking me the same questions again that you've been asking and not receiving satisfactory answers to certainly qualifies as distracting. I think you've reached the point where you feel as if you've bussed your scum partner long enough and are trying to get everyone to hop back onto my wagon. Good luck with that.

[hohum]

Interesting NK choice. Scum got lucky? What does the naiveness of the cop do to the power of the role? Also if Alex was a cop why was he so active yesterday?

There was scum pushing seb's wagon methinks. Since there was a lot of attention directed at me I've got a lot of null reads so I owe you guys a reread. I will come back around and post my thoughts if I can today.

[hohum]

Well, a naive cop is death. Well, at least it was one of the less useful roles. Even a vanilla townie is more useful than a NC. But any roads...

And hohum, please go ahead and state your opinion on all of this. Due to your fear of being lynched, you were very inactive in the past day, so I will like to know your opinion on Seb's lynch. Btw, I don't think it was a bandwagon. Seb just acted too much suspicious, and that was the reason of his lynch. It's true that chances are that scummies voted for him as well, but still, it was mostly his fault to get lynched.

A wagon is a wagon, whether it was for good reasons or bad ones. This one just happened to be for good reasons on the surface but bad reasons overall.

Looking at the most vocal people on his wagon may or may not net us more scum, but those types of things should really be looked at in the context of multiple wagons and not just one. Since I was the only other person wagoned yesterday, it's going to be sort of hard for me to do objectively.

I think now that Alex has flipped, artem should be watched a little more carefully. I no longer think his screwing up alex's quote tags or FoSing him for a stupid reason early on in the game was a simple mistake or sarcasm as someone indicated. IGMEOY.

There's going to be more to follow this post up.

[hohum]

I think now that Alex has flipped, artem should be watched a little more carefully. I no longer think his screwing up alex's quote tags or FoSing him for a stupid reason early on in the game was a simple mistake or sarcasm as someone indicated. IGMEOY.

I don't follow the logic. Are you saying that I purposely tried to get alex lynched and when that didn't work, I shot him last night and that makes me mafia?

Also, mind answering the question I re-stated at the end of Day 1.

The night actions didn't change my view of hohum, so I'm putting my vote where it was the previous day.

Vote: hohum

I also don't understand the sudden spur in activity. Is there a reason you were laying low at the end of the previous day and taking a spotlight now, hohum?

Agree with Magus that Seb's lynch was mostly due to Seb's play. I, too, was considering voting him.

I'm saying that besides me you were riding alex pretty hard pretty early on, attempting to give reasoning behind a seemingly random vote. Very suspicious. Because of the way you rode him I'm inclined to think you're of opposite alignment.

I also don't have enough of a case to proceed to place a vote.

I'm not trying to take the spotlight. I'm being asked direct questions and I'm answering them. I would have done the same towards the end of yesterday too had I not been asked the same questions over and over again.

Please requote your question and I will attempt to answer it.

[hohum]

@hohum: Can you define "pretty hard"? If I'm not mistaken, you too voted for Alex at some point, outside of the RVS and for a pretty poor reason. What makes my joking reasons during the RVS more suspicious?

I don't buy "joke voting." I think you should be watched very carefully for even attempting to call that early FoS a joke. Most people don't even bother to attempt to attach justification to random votes. The fact that you FoSed him instead of Voting him only further reenforces my point because in the multitude of games I've played in so far you're the first person I've ever seen do a joke FoS.

Here's the question you didn't answer (again, quotes are included for context):

Curious, why would you changed your vote instead of simply calling me out with a FoS, HoS or IGMEOY? And how could you be certain that you made the correct choice 3 pages in to day 1?

You have no problems flinging your vote around, yet somehow you feel that you deserve a special treatment. What's with the double standards?

It was a probing question, I ask it all the time.

And what do you generally get, besides the game preference debate we had happen here, which only distracted the town. Got any examples where it helped you catch scum?

Also, I was not answering the question. I was commenting on you asking it.

I would actually like you to provide several examples where you ask that question. Since you "ask it all the time", it shouldn't be a problem, right?

It didn't help me catch scum, because you took the pressure off of it immediately by questioning me. You didn't give anyone a chance to respond.

[hohum]

It's not a null tell. It's a slight scum tell. If it were a vote, it would be more of a null tell. The fact that you FoSed him is VERY telling. It shows that you potentially have inside knowledge of the setup.

A random vote is just that, a random vote. A FoS is actually saying "I have suspicion of you" and there was no reason to be suspicious of alex at that point.

[hohum]

Why are you so focused on 3 words? Is that really the only thing you can get to stick on me? I'm really frustrated by you. You're reaching, again, on D2 because you don't have any real justification for your vote. You're trying to do everything you can do to find something that will stick to me so that you can walk the town into another mislynch on D2.

[hohum]

I haven't had an opportunity to start yet. I've been posting short posts in all my games so far today because I'm busy with RL stuff. When I have time to sit down for more than a couple of minutes at a time I'll be sure this is the first game I give my attention to.

It hasn't even been 72 hours since the topic opened back up. Re fucking lax, okay?

[hohum]

Because I am claiming to be a cop and I found out over night that Charat is guilty.

Thanks. Nobody asked you to claim to reveal your investigation results. You could have at least TRIED to push a case against Charat, and now you've just turned your power into a 1-shot deal.

We've already had one cop with muddied sanity go down. What are the chances of there being two cops with bad sanity?

If we can feel comfortable that we can trust the results of this investigation IF Zer0ph34r is being truthful there is an easy solution to this problem:

Lynch them both and see which one flips.

[hohum]

A guilty on himself would tell us that he is NOT sane, and that potentially both Zero and Charrat might be scum.

If he is a sane cop then one of the two of them are scum. I would start with a charrat lynch. If charrat flips town, we lynch zero.

[hohum]

EBWOP: If he's not a sane cop Zero and Charrat might both be town, not scum. Typo in my previous post. Sorry.

[hohum]

I have this idea. If Zero is really a cop, then a good thing to do is lynch him. Why? Well, if we lynch him, we learn his sanity, thus if his results were accurate or not. If he is paranoid, it is more useful death, as he might grasp on wrong results and get other innocents lynched. If he's insane, we would know for sure Charrat's alignment. I know that it's a bit risky losing a townie like that, but sometimes someone has to sacrifice for the victory of the town.

Oh, and if we follow Zero's results, and lynch Charrat, and he turns out innocent, we wouldn't know for sure if Zero's an insane or paranoid cop. In the other hand, if he turns out guilty, we wouldn't know for sure if Zero's an paranoid or sane cop. From my point of view, we are risking more following Zero's results.

We can also ignore that claim totally and just keep going we the previous arguments.

I hereby endorse this plan.

He shouldn't have claimed, period. You don't claim immediately after a result. You're not supposed to claim unless you HAVE to. He should have at minimum tried to push a case.

In the history of MS early PR claims have never EVER helped the town. It's an anti-town thing to do and he should be at minimum lynched on policy for it.

His sanity flip would confirm charrat's alignment.

Unvote

Vote: Zer0ph34r

[hohum]

what makes you think that they're going to NK him? Especially if his sanity is in question.

[hohum]

I don't know what to say besides you're wrong about my alignment.

[hohum]

If you want my claim, I'm the miller.

[hohum]

make sure you look into some of the people on my wagon when you get a chance. There's scum pushing it, methinks.

[hohum]

go ahead and hammer guys.

[hohum]

Just a question: if you are willing to get hammer, why don't you hammer yourself?

self-hammers are never appropriate under any circumstances, and can cause game breakage under certain circumstances. I would never do you guys the disservice of hammering until you as a town believe you have gotten everything out of me that you can possibly get.

Wagons are a good source of information, even if they lead to a mislynch. Only scum would want to cut that short.

[hohum]

If you want my claim, I'm the miller.

I'm not exactly sure how it works on this site, but on epicmafia the miller is shown up to be a regular townsperson as well. I don't think that you would neccessarily know if you are the miller or not. If you WERE the miller, then claiming miller from the start would be the best course of action, no? I don't believe this claim right now and I think that you are scum. If you can convince me otherwise, i'd remove my vote likewise .

The miller gets a special role PM in the vast majority of games on MS where the roll exists, so if you are miller, then you would and should indeed know it.

The miller role is useful in situations where the cop needs to be confirmed. It works because the miller has to counterclaim the cop when the miller shows up dirty on an investigation. The miller gets lynched, the cop gets confirmed, and the cop's previous investigation results can then be trusted.

Unfortunately things didn't work out to the point where I got a chance to use my role effectively this game. I apologize for that.

[hohum]

Also hohum, can you please state all your current thoughts and views on the game situation so far. In case you are a townsperson, your input is glady appreciated and will be considered in the future. If you are scum, however, your entire post will not neccessarily be ignore because it may serve us some clues. So either way, please share with us your knowledge.

My thoughts on this game so far center around Artem. Please look at him very carefully after I flip, as he has zeroed in on myself and alex for very stupid reasons mostly. He has tunneled on me since the very start of the game.

He's the only person that really sticks out in my notes. I'm getting null reads on most everyone else at this point.

[hohum]

before I forget

Vote: Artem

[hohum]

Hohum... You continue to ignore my existence, and Green Crayons. It's like anyone who you don't like is just non-existent. It's really peeing me off. I've tried to be polite, and you've continued to ignore me. You're an annoying player, and even if you aren't scum, you're so anti-town that you may as well be.

ZEEnon... What the hell? You actually unvoted the guy? What decent reason did he give? I don't see it.

Can someone just hammer and get this over with?

Oh, and

Mod

, half of those prods really weren't necessary, GC, and I think a couple of the others had posted not long before you prodded them. Don't tell us off

Oh sorry, I didn't know either of you were part of this game. I thought you had both been replaced early on by 2 giant holes in the wall. In both cases such a replacement would have been far more effective.

[hohum]

Green Canyon+Artem == Scum. Mark my words. I can't wait to be proven correct at the end of the game.

[hohum]

obvscum, at that