Mini 743: Sanity Ensues - Over!

[seb456zig]

@Azhrei: happy bday for next tuesday

Mod votecount, as per end of previous page

hohum (2)

:

Green crayons, Artem

alexhans (1):

hohum,

Artem (1):

alexhans

seb456zig (1):

Magus_Stragus

ZEEnon (1):

seb456zig,

Azhrei (0):
Magus_Stragus (0):
Charrat (0):
Green Crayons (0):
Tom (0):


Not voting (4):

Azhrei, Charrat, Tom, ZEEnon

Deadline set to February the 20th.

With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

[ZEEnon]

how could you forgot about masons,
they are the best !
just kidding, i think I forgot too . :[
plus this is My first game,
so i wasn't really expecting any
other roles, haha .

if THE cop is killed before day four,
how DO you expect them to
even have a Chance to reveal Their results ?
how do you even know we have a cop ?

the title does make it seem like
the mafia has a certain advantage of some sort .. :[
OR like seb456zig mentioned,
we may have a naive cop .

[seb456zig]

... this is My first game...

Please dont play noob cards

and also, you should've "/in"ed at the newbie que.

[ZEEnon]

haha i actually didn't know
where to start up for that,
so i ended up here .
i don't see any difference however .
&& i believe i played that
card far earlier in the game .
plus i'm not stating it
to protect myself or whatever ..
i'm stating that i wasn't aware
that other roles were in this game .

[seb456zig]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10101

sign up there when you die in this game

[ZEEnon]

i'm already in two other games,
i located them after signing up for this one ..
and why are you so sure i'm
going to DIE, scum ?

[Azhrei]

Phew, one thread down, one to go...

First off, thanks Seb

Second, after rereading the thread, I think I've managed to get a bit of a read on most everyone. In no way is that read conclusive, but I do have reasons for it all. So, list!

1.Tom ~ Town, I think. Consistent, and he seems to be genuinely working for the town.
2.hohum ~ Scummy. He dodges questions and jumps on people for little reason, and seems somewhat hypocritical to me.
3.alexhans ~ I'm not so sure... I've seen some thing I've thought are scummy, but I also have seen some things that seem townie. I'm more in favour of town at the moment though.
4.ZEEnon ~ Newbie, but the question is, newbie town, or newbie scum. I'm not sure. (and, please, could, you, type, normally, it, screws, my, head, over)
5.Charrat ~ Doing a classic Charrat. I have no clue. (Charrat, I hate you )
6.Green Crayons ~ Townie, I'm reasonably sure. One of the few people who has been totally consistent, and seems wholly for the town.
7.Artem ~ I dunno. I'm 50/50 on Artem. Earlier on, I thought he seemed scummy, but later on, I didn't think so.
8.seb456zig ~ I'm inclined towards townie, he seems to be acting that way.
9.Magus_Stragus ~ I think townie, but I'm definitely not sure.

Now, the problem with this list is that I'm obviously wrong somewhere. I've only got 1 person who I consider to be scum, a few unsures, and then townies. And the chances of there being only 1 scum in a 10 player game are very low in my experience, and I'd expect 2-3. Also, I'm happy to offer clarification on my views.

So, which one of you is the other one? I'm intrigued. Nobody really seems to be buddying Hohum, so nothing obvious there. (Smart move, I'd say) In fact, annoyingly, I'm a little puzzled. So, while I'm still keeping my eye out for other scum, I'm gonna focus on Hohum, who I find the scummiest here. And I'd really, really like him to respond to my accusations. (Or any of the others levelled against him.)

It really starts way back on page 2.

Are you trying to cover up your scumbuddy Hohum?

OMGUS-by-proxy? You really are reaching for conclusions right now.

FoS: Artem

First, what do you even mean by OMGUS-by-proxy? Second, what the hell is a OMGUS related term even doing here? I believe others asked this of you before, and I can't find you answering it satisfactorily, if at all.

I know I'm probably going to catch a little flak for this but I'm going to go ahead and:

Unvote

Vote: Artem

Because I just can't ignore 3 scum tells in 2 pages. I was in one of your first games too, so I know that you know better.

My justification is of course:

1) A serious vote this early in day 1. Seriously? And over a stupid reason too: Screwed up quote tags. This demonstrates that you don't really care enough about scum hunting to actually pay any real attention to this thread.

FoS: alexhans for having double standards. I've been posting in other games too

2) Seriously? Tunnel vision?

Are you trying to cover up your scumbuddy Hohum?

3) He was talking within the context of a Meta read on me. How is that defending me from any onslaught of attack? My vote was RANDOM and I think people will get that.

As I believe Green Crayons points out soon after this post, you said voting for serious reasons so early on was scummy, then voted for a serious reason. I believe the term 'double-standards' has come up before ,and it most definitely applies here. Are you special, or did a few extra posts make the world of difference, hm?

@hohum: whats an IGMEOY, im guessing its a stronger version of a hos, but anyway...

@people accusing me of lurking: i hope you realise I dont spend all day on the computer, and when i am on the computer i would only check forums once. Dont you (Magus) think that voting a supposed lurker isnt smart this early in the game. Isnt it too early to even lurk? anyway...

FoS:Magus

because of trying to get me bandwagond for no real reason. Inactivity isnt a scumtell in my book, but i think posts that dont help the town are (like your one).

Could you please explain your logic on voting me so early in the game?

(i repeat myself a lot, sorry about that. Its a habit.)

1) IGMEOY means I've got my eye on you. It's like a step below FoS (IMHO)

2) It's still pretty early in D1 to be throwing votes around behind hard evidence -- and I'm all for wagoning people to get them to drop scum tells. I don't think necessarily Magus' approach is any less correct than the way it's usually been done

3) Actively lurking actually is a scum tell and that isn't a matter of opinion.

IGMEOY

It'll be interesting to see how you play from here on out.

So here, you quote someone reasonably explaining why they hadn't posted a zillion times (we do have lives) and then seem to insinuate they are lurking by saying lurking is scummy. Also, you restate your 'Serious votes are not likely at this point in the game' thing, so obviously, those few posts didn't make that much of a difference.

oh okay good,
i was about to change my vote ..

Curious, why would you changed your vote instead of simply calling me out with a FoS, HoS or IGMEOY? And how could you be certain that you made the correct choice 3 pages in to day 1?

Okay, you seem to be saying here (and you reinforce this later on) that for more minor things, some sort of mechanism that isn't a vote should be used to point it out. But then...

Well. I want to contribute but really don't find much to say... Everyone seems to explain they're votes as Pressure votes so we can't jump at them...

I'm sure if you went back and re-read the thread you could find SOMETHING to comment on. It isn't like we're still 3 pages in and just coming out of the random voting stage or something

I also don't believe that a bit of inactivity is a scum tell. Experienced

players won't go lurking if they're scum in fear of being replaced. They may add little to the conversation though.

This is exactly what you just did.

Who hasnt voted yet? Why?

See my comment above about re-reading the thread.

In short:

Vote: alexhans

Yay! More double standards. While I agree that the quoted post of Alexhans was a bit pointless and empty, I didn't really find it mega-scummy. I'd rate it at FoS level, if that. But no, you vote him for it, in direct contradiction of what you've earlier said. Huh?

Thanks for the OMGUS FOS, now I have more than just your comment to go on.

Seems a little pointless to me.

some stuff that's not relevant to what I'm saying.

You're not looking as scummy to me as you did now that I'm taking Alex's most recent posts into context. I (for whatever reason) confused you with Azi in Open 69.

-Daniel

Why the turnaround? You seemed very convinced earlier on, and you kinda just switch here, without saying much in the way of reason.

(only page 5? Kill me, please)

You have no problems flinging your vote around, yet somehow you feel that you deserve a special treatment. What's with the double standards?

It was a probing question, I ask it all the time.

Please don't answer questions on behalf of other people. You're more than welcome comment and call my motives into question AFTER he answers it.

Probing question just seems like an excuse, usable in any situation for just about anything. And then I don't quite understand why you quote yourself, and seem to tell yourself off? Please, explain.

As such,

Vote:Hohum

And that's about it. hohum, I'm really interested in your response to this (or lack of it). Everyone else, I'm intrigued by what you think as well.


Now, to my other thread...

[Artem]

Well, since things have cooled down a little bit, I will pose a few questions for anyone who would like to answer and maybe spark some more discussion.

1. At this moment, are there any players that you believe are town? If so, why?
2. At this moment, are there any players that you suspect are mafia? If so, why?
3. How would you choose who to lynch today if you do not yet have any suspicions of who may be mafia?

1. Not going to answer, for obvious reasons.
2. I suspect hohum is mafia. His bending of the facts and incorrect use of terminology gives him an excuse to vote players for whom he has little to no reason to vote otherwise. I think he's wants to appear scumhunting.
3. I'm voting for hohum, who I believe is mafia.

[alexhans]

if THE cop is killed before day four,
how DO you expect them to
even have a Chance to reveal Their results ?
how do you even know we have a cop ?

So true... I think the cop should act as he deems wise. Period. Planning openly just gives hints to the mafia. Unless it is really helpful to the town we should exercise caution.

plus this is My first game,
so i wasn't really expecting any
other roles, haha .

What does this means? I hope youre not playing the aforementioned card

I'm gonna focus on Hohum, who I find the scummiest here. And I'd really, really like him to respond to my accusations. (Or any of the others levelled against him.)

We all would.

Everything you ask to hohum ive mentioned it in my last posts... He is inconsistent and evasive.

Well, since things have cooled down a little bit, I will pose a few questions for anyone who would like to answer and maybe spark some more discussion.
1. At this moment, are there any players that you believe are town? If so, why?
2. At this moment, are there any players that you suspect are mafia? If so, why?
3. How would you choose who to lynch today if you do not yet have any suspicions of who may be mafia?

This is are hard questions to answer... I don't see how they can help the Town so much. Im so paranoid that It'll probably give more ideas to the mafia as to how f%&/($ lost I may be about who to acusse. Through my posts you have read what points I've made about certain players (Artem and Hohum) but then I have a lot of not-really-supported suspicions about other players that I can not effectively state. And I always doubt till the last minute, suppose the most innocent looking guy was scumm?

3. Right now (This can change any second to any player) Im between Artem (My vote is there still) and Hohum.

I'm in no hurry to lynch anyone although I might had looked like I was when I asked who hadn't voted yet.


One more thing. Reading Azhrei's List I realized that the only ones who are possible scums are Artem,Hohum and me... We 3 that fought against each other while the others contributed with more fire... Isn't the obvious choice that only we will look scummy as we are the only ones doing any actual discussing and acussing. We have to discuss further and get more participation from everybody before we reach any conclusion.

[seb456zig]

HoS:hohum

but id prefer not to vote until i can find my own reasons (which seems realy hard, coz all the good ones have been taken

MFoS:Charrat

because asking questions like that is just telling the mafia what the town thinks about each other. Could you please tell me (us) why you need to know?

(MFoS suspision gained from alexhans's previous post {133})

[hohum]

Well it's obvious that I'm going to go down in flames.

I've already explained why I called Artem's move an OMGUS. I've tried to probe for information but every question I ask gets picked apart before it can get answered. There's scum on my wagon, methinks.

I stand by my reasoning for flip-flopping on Artem. It's too early in the game to have any concrete suspicions, that's what makes it so easy for me to abandon my initial suspicions.

[Azhrei]

-Stuff bout concentrating on Hohum

We all would.

Everything you ask to hohum ive mentioned it in my last posts... He is inconsistent and evasive.

I know, I thought that perhaps one big post with everything in it might make it easier for him.

-Charrat's questions-

This is are hard questions to answer... I don't see how they can help the Town so much. Im so paranoid that It'll probably give more ideas to the mafia as to how f%&/($ lost I may be about who to acusse. Through my posts you have read what points I've made about certain players (Artem and Hohum) but then I have a lot of not-really-supported suspicions about other players that I can not effectively state. And I always doubt till the last minute, suppose the most innocent looking guy was scumm?

3. Right now (This can change any second to any player) Im between Artem (My vote is there still) and Hohum.

I'm in no hurry to lynch anyone although I might had looked like I was when I asked who hadn't voted yet.

Personally, I've found Charrat's questions to be useful in the past. They tend to spark some discussion if things die down (I've played with him a few times before, he tends to post a similar set every game). The problem is, he posts them regardless of his alignment. I've seen him post them in games as both scum and town. So it's really a null-tell. Oh, and I'm pretty sure I indirectly answered them with my list.

One more thing. Reading Azhrei's List I realized that the only ones who are possible scums are Artem,Hohum and me... We 3 that fought against each other while the others contributed with more fire... Isn't the obvious choice that only we will look scummy as we are the only ones doing any actual discussing and acussing. We have to discuss further and get more participation from everybody before we reach any conclusion.

And ZEEnon, newb boy, too. And as I pointed out, my list was by no means conclusive. And you're right, most of the scummy things you and Artem did were while you fought. And yes, I agree with you, moar discussion, even if I'm not the best myself.

Well it's obvious that I'm going to go down in flames.

I've already explained why I called Artem's move an OMGUS. I've tried to probe for information but every question I ask gets picked apart before it can get answered. There's scum on my wagon, methinks.

I stand by my reasoning for flip-flopping on Artem. It's too early in the game to have any concrete suspicions, that's what makes it so easy for me to abandon my initial suspicions.

I checked that explanation, and I don't really find it satisfactory. And yes, there probably is scum on your wagon somewhere, or will be soon. Regardless of your alignment, it'd be a stupid partner (or partners, as the case may be) that didn't recognize that the town was leaning towards you being scum already.

And you really haven't answered much else I (and others) have said. I'd suggest perhaps quoting my post, because I think it contains most of the arguments against you, and answering each accusation. But you know, that's just what I think.

[ZEEnon]

although i enjoy this game the most out of my current games,
some of you can be really ANNOYING at times .

4.ZEEnon ~ Newbie, but the question is, newbie town, or newbie scum. I'm not sure. (and, please, could, you, type, normally, it, screws, my, head, over)

And ZEEnon, newb boy, too.

What does this means? I hope youre not playing the aforementioned card

@ Azhrei, there was no reason to include
the word newbie .. if that affects your vote
then you are clearly misguided .
if i never stated i was new to this,
you would never be able to tell .
can you guys get over this ?
did i ask for anyone to go easy on me ? no .
i merely stated a fact .
i don't think you are reading carefully
enough, or you are mafia becaaaaause
i mentioned this fact a LONG time ago :

this is my first game too, Magus_Stragus,
but you don't see me announcing it to the world ..
oh wait, I guess i just did .

whether or not i'm new doesn't
affect my ability to play the game.
normally it COULD, but i played
so much in real life, the only difference
is that i had to learn the acronyms,
which i easily did through the wiki .

[Azhrei]

although i enjoy this game the most out of my current games,
some of you can be really ANNOYING at times .

4.ZEEnon ~ Newbie, but the question is, newbie town, or newbie scum. I'm not sure. (and, please, could, you, type, normally, it, screws, my, head, over)

And ZEEnon, newb boy, too.

What does this means? I hope youre not playing the aforementioned card

@ Azhrei, there was no reason to include
the word newbie .. if that affects your vote
then you are clearly misguided .
if i never stated i was new to this,
you would never be able to tell .
can you guys get over this ?
did i ask for anyone to go easy on me ? no .
i merely stated a fact .
i don't think you are reading carefully
enough, or you are mafia becaaaaause
i mentioned this fact a LONG time ago :

this is my first game too, Magus_Stragus,
but you don't see me announcing it to the world ..
oh wait, I guess i just did .

whether or not i'm new doesn't
affect my ability to play the game.
normally it COULD, but i played
so much in real life, the only difference
is that i had to learn the acronyms,
which i easily did through the wiki .

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying entirely, person-who-types-annoyingly. I'd have been calling you newbie regardless of whether or not you'd said it, because that's how you're acting. I'm calling you newbie, because you're acting like one. It doesn't influence my vote at all, because I'm still trying to figure out what type of newbie you're acting like.

[ZEEnon]

oh alright .

[Charrat]

MFoS:Charrat

because asking questions like that is just telling the mafia what the town thinks about each other. Could you please tell me (us) why you need to know?

Asking a broad set of querstions is something I like to do when the conversation is slower than I would like it to be. It sometimes helps spark discussion, and thats always a good thing for the town. I do agree that answering those questions will tell the mafia what the town thinks, but there is not necessarily any harm in that, is there? The mafia already have the most important information; who is on their team, and who is not. The people who are in the dark is the town. The town players are who need to understand what other players are thinking because that is all the information we have that allows us to lynch the right people.

Also, everytime we post in this thread we tell other players what we think (or what we want to appear to think), so answering these questions (or any other) is just another layer of information that we have to make the best voting choices we can. If we tried to play this game without ever telling the mafia what we think, it would be an awfully quiet game.

[seb456zig]

MFoS:Charrat

because asking questions like that is just telling the mafia what the town thinks about each other. Could you please tell me (us) why you need to know?

Asking a broad set of querstions is something I like to do when the conversation is slower than I would like it to be. It sometimes helps spark discussion, and thats always a good thing for the town. I do agree that answering those questions will tell the mafia what the town thinks, but there is not necessarily any harm in that, is there? The mafia already have the most important information; who is on their team, and who is not. The people who are in the dark is the town. The town players are who need to understand what other players are thinking because that is all the information we have that allows us to lynch the right people.

Also, everytime we post in this thread we tell other players what we think (or what we want to appear to think), so answering these questions (or any other) is just another layer of information that we have to make the best voting choices we can. If we tried to play this game without ever telling the mafia what we think, it would be an awfully quiet game.

Huh, okay... sounds believable

1. At this moment, are there any players that you believe are town? If so, why?
2. At this moment, are there any players that you suspect are mafia? If so, why?
3. How would you choose who to lynch today if you do not yet have any suspicions of who may be mafia?

1. Myself (stupid WIFOM contradicts this)
2. ZEEnon & possibly hohum. ZEEnon plays a lot like Chuck Norris did in my first game (go look me up and META!!!) I dont have any of my own reasons for hohum but others seem to think he's realy scummie and when i find any scum behavior

BAM

one point for the town, but until then ima listen to his reasoning.
3.Hmm... that's a tough one. Maybe the one that contradicts themself the most

[hohum]

I checked that explanation, and I don't really find it satisfactory. And yes, there probably is scum on your wagon somewhere, or will be soon. Regardless of your alignment, it'd be a stupid partner (or partners, as the case may be) that didn't recognize that the town was leaning towards you being scum already.

And you really haven't answered much else I (and others) have said. I'd suggest perhaps quoting my post, because I think it contains most of the arguments against you, and answering each accusation. But you know, that's just what I think.

I have attempted to answer your questions, along with everyone else's. You reject my explanations. It's not going to matter what I say to you, so why bother trying? You're just going to sit there and twist and contort my posts until they mean exactly what YOU want them to mean -- I'm scum.

[Green Crayons]

I must apologize, my activity in this game has gone below my intentions. With the assumption that this day will continue to persist well after friday (my last day of hectic work that's been consuming my time for the past week or so), I intend to keep my vote where it is until I can play a little catch up.

[ZEEnon]

2. ZEEnon & possibly hohum. ZEEnon plays a lot like Chuck Norris did in my first game (go look me up and META!!!) I dont have any of my own reasons for hohum but others seem to think he's realy scummie and when i find any scum behavior

BAM

one point for the town, but until then ima listen to his reasoning.

i like how i'm suspected because i act
like someone else you know
from a previous game .
*imitates childish voice*
bad people wear black..
you wear black..
your a BAD person ! :O
(there is no difference between your
post, and this childish remark)

i also find it funny
how people are suspecting me
due to me mentioning this
is my first game . that is a very
scumish thing to say playing online i guess .
at least i'm learning new things .......

[hohum]

2. ZEEnon & possibly hohum. ZEEnon plays a lot like Chuck Norris did in my first game (go look me up and META!!!) I dont have any of my own reasons for hohum but others seem to think he's realy scummie and when i find any scum behavior

BAM

one point for the town, but until then ima listen to his reasoning.

i like how i'm suspected because i act
like someone else you know
from a previous game .
*imitates childish voice*
bad people wear black..
you wear black..
your a BAD person ! :O
(there is no difference between your
post, and this childish remark)

i also find it funny
how people are suspecting me
due to me mentioning this
is my first game . that is a very
scumish thing to say playing online i guess .
at least i'm learning new things .......

Can you PLEASE stop posting in this manner. Nobody else on the site does it.

[ZEEnon]

i don't conform .

[hohum]

i don't conform .

The funny thing about anti-conformists is that they don't realize if you're always moving in the exact opposite direction of the herd, then they're still dictating your movements; now aren't they?

Seriously, stop it. You're not just being "the cool kid" by doing that, you're making it difficult for people to read your posts by disrupting the flow of your sentences.

[ZEEnon]

but not conforming,
i'm doing just the opposite,
trying NOT to be "the cool kid" .
you contradicted yourself there .
i'm no longer replying to posts
about my typing style,
it's now against my newly-made religion .

[hohum]

but not conforming,
i'm doing just the opposite,
trying NOT to be "the cool kid" .
you contradicted yourself there .
i'm no longer replying to posts
about my typing style,
it's now against my newly-made religion .

God you're a raging faggot. The only thing good about this game is that I'm going to be lynched today.