Mini 743: Sanity Ensues - Over!

[ZEEnon]

also, why would we want to quote you if you die?

Mod votecount, as per end of previous page

seb456zig

(4):

Magus_Stragus, alexhans, Charrat, ZEEnon

hohum (3):

Green crayons, Artem, Azhrei,

alexhans (1):

hohum,

ZEEnon (1):

seb456zig,

Artem (0):
Azhrei (0):
Magus_Stragus (0):
Charrat (0):
Green Crayons (0):
Tom (0):

Not voting (1):

Tom,

Deadline set to February the 20th.

With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Prod count: Green Crayons, hohum,

Tom

[seb456zig]

Just trying to see if you're mafia. How can that be scummie?

What I personally believe (quote me if I die)
ZEEnon & Charrat are scumbuddies

so i assume that my answer made you believe that i'm mafia?

please answer this as well .
it was in a separate post,
so you couldn't have missed it .

I was going to answer it, but then I realised I wasn't sure.
I've now backtracked and remember that I've thought of you long before that post you made. Remember that I've already voted you.

just because some crazy dead person said that they suspected so-and-so doesn't mean that so-and-so is scum.

So what you're saying is that, since alive people can say the same things as dead people could've when they were alive... Are you telling me that we shouldn't listen to alive people's suspitions because they are potential crazy dead people? I trust dead townie posts more because they are confirmed town. Please explain your logic here

[Azhrei]

we kinda figured that, but anyway...

everyone, for now just picture me as a vanilla townie (as aposed like possible scum). Look at how Magus keeps his vote on me. Isn't it a little strange that Magus is trying so hard to find me scum when Hohum is so plainly acting scummie.

Ooh, that's nice, trying to pass the heat off on Hohum. Now, I wouldn't say Hohum is acting obviously scummy, while he was previously the scummiest player in my opinion, now I'm not so sure.

You're right, i shouldnt just pass the heat to Hohum. By "plainly acting scummie" i guess i meant "everyone else seems to think he is obv scum".

Just on a side note, you wouldn't realise how many times I've seen people not notice ballsed quote tags, and go off on a tangent due to that, as such, I thought it best to point that out.

As to the rest... I'm a tad confused. You say you shouldn't pass the heat onto hohum, yet... You don't say you didn't try. And then you try and explain your 'obv scum' comment erroneously. Hohum is not obv scum to everyone, and a few people believe him to be town.

@Azhrei: I dont think you are scum but I think you are a very lazy person

I'm intrigued, why do you call me lazy, and why don't you think I'm scum? I am lazy, but I'd like to know why you think so.

@ZEE: I think you are a very poor strategy player and should play newbie games before you try another one of these "real" games.

True, but it seems a tad hypocritical, considering your later '@'

@Hohum: I don't find you scummie realy, but

IGMEOY

Why?

@person saying FoSes suck: YOU SUCK!

Hear hear.

@Azhrei (again): i didnt lie about me never being NKed. in fact, this is my third game (ZOMFG, a card) but yeah. It would have been more believable if i mentioned that before

I don't doubt you've never been NKed, but I still don't have any way of verifying the reasons behind your lynching without reading multiple other threads (not happening)

@scum:i dislike you ingame but ooc you are playing realy well. and also, are you ZEE?

This is a really odd comment. WHy are the scum playing so well? Why do you ask such a loaded question in ZEE's direction?

@everyone who read all of these: y did you waste your time with all of them? it seems pretty pointless to read them all

Waste of time? Hardly. These have been very interesting

@people that have questions towards me: ask them

Just did

he also quite obviously tried to fish for my role.

Just trying to see if you're mafia. How can that be scummie?

Because you could be mafia rolefishing for power roles, and we don't know which way it is. That's why its scummy.

Honestly, my impression of this post is the same as Alexhan's. Scum trying the best they can to pass the heat anywhere.

---

B) I've already answered every question that everyone has asked of me. The only reason you and Azhrei can't see that is because you're both reading selectively. You've dismissed the answers I've given you and have defaulted back into this mode of asking your questions over and over again.

blol. Either I'm blind or you're a liar. Either is fine by me, just point me out to your response and I'll apologize. Or keep my vote where it is.

Oh good, I'm not the only one who 'missed' his answers. I was beginning to doubt myself there. You've just reaffirmed my suspicions. Speaking of hohum, where is that guy? You ain't dead yet Hohum.

---

I also find it interesting you've chosen not to comment upon the recent Seb case beyond that little one line about wondering why he never replied.

i have no idea what the hell you are talking about. it's highly likely that i missed it, so please inform me.

So, one post, you claim not to know what I'm talking about when I adress the recent seb case. Then...

people may view this as me voting him just because Charrat has, but i was just about to place my votes regardless ..

Vote: seb456zig

the fact that he seemingly knows that i'm going to be killed is suspicious to me. not only that but he tries to makes everyone picture him as a vanilla townie. he also says to picture him as one, which means that he thinks we don't view him as one. i don't think i really thought of him seriously as mafia but now that he has said that, and by re-reading his posts, i don't know why i didn't see it before. he also quite obviously tried to fish for my role.

So, I'm confused. Is this your first game (so you wouldn't be expecting roles beyond a cop) or are you an experienced mafia player who has real-life mafia experience (and so roles beyond simply a cop wouldn't be out of the extraordinary)? I don't see how your two quotes match up.

i have real-life mafia experience with only townies and mafia. does that match up for you?

... You talk about the Seb case! And not only talk, you vote! So... Yeah. Wtf?

And really, your reasons for voting are crap. It's basically a dressed up OMGUS. Your main reason really seems to be he thinks you won't make it to endgame. (Honestly, I don't think you will either) The rest really just seems to be piggybacking off Charrat and GC. And then that last comment... 'does that match up for you?' fuuuuck. Could you sound any scummier, you seem to be trying to make up whatever you think he will believe.

the only interaction between me and Charrat are that we both are voting for you

This is the puppy & master pairup. You follow whatever Charrat tells you to do because he is more experienced than you.

@everyone: Dead people can speak. Just watch what they have said in previous posts (i know noone is dead yet, but i think this day is comming to a close)

He actually does make a valid point here, provided that he's town Otherwise, he's just screwing with our minds.

@everyone: Dead people can speak. Just watch what they have said in previous posts (i know noone is dead yet, but i think this day is comming to a close)

just because some crazy dead person said that they suspected so-and-so doesn't mean that so-and-so is scum. also, i think this day is far from over, you are over-reacting .. there are only four votes on you. that means that you need two more votes. somebody is most likely going to find a flaw with one of the people that are voting you, (most likely me) and then votes will shift once again .

Best point you've made yet! That said, I can understand where Seb is coming from, as you can essentially trust dead townies as being honest about their suspicions, but you still can't treat them as gospel.

[seb456zig]

also, why would we want to quote you if you die?

To see what nonliving people thought. You don't just forget about people just because they die, unless they're scum

[seb456zig]

we kinda figured that, but anyway...

everyone, for now just picture me as a vanilla townie (as aposed like possible scum). Look at how Magus keeps his vote on me. Isn't it a little strange that Magus is trying so hard to find me scum when Hohum is so plainly acting scummie.

Ooh, that's nice, trying to pass the heat off on Hohum. Now, I wouldn't say Hohum is acting obviously scummy, while he was previously the scummiest player in my opinion, now I'm not so sure.

You're right, i shouldnt just pass the heat to Hohum. By "plainly acting scummie" i guess i meant "everyone else seems to think he is obv scum".

Just on a side note, you wouldn't realise how many times I've seen people not notice ballsed quote tags, and go off on a tangent due to that, as such, I thought it best to point that out.

As to the rest... I'm a tad confused. You say you shouldn't pass the heat onto hohum, yet... You don't say you didn't try. And then you try and explain your 'obv scum' comment erroneously. Hohum is not obv scum to everyone, and a few people believe him to be town.

Okay, I guess I should've realised that. I admit the mistake

@Azhrei: I dont think you are scum but I think you are a very lazy person

I'm intrigued, why do you call me lazy, and why don't you think I'm scum? I am lazy, but I'd like to know why you think so.

I dont think you're scum because you are trying realy hard to find scummie things and havn't fabricated anything. You are lazy because you wont meta anyone. (i cbf doing it either)

@ZEE: I think you are a very poor strategy player and should play newbie games before you try another one of these "real" games.

True, but it seems a tad hypocritical, considering your later '@'

Well you're a meanie

@Hohum: I don't find you scummie realy, but

IGMEOY

Why?

Why what? I IGMEOYed him coz people (not all ppl) think he is scummie, and they might be right

@person saying FoSes suck: YOU SUCK!

Hear hear.

thank you

@Azhrei (again): i didnt lie about me never being NKed. in fact, this is my third game (ZOMFG, a card) but yeah. It would have been more believable if i mentioned that before

I don't doubt you've never been NKed, but I still don't have any way of verifying the reasons behind your lynching without reading multiple other threads (not happening)

LAZY!!!

@scum:i dislike you ingame but ooc you are playing realy well. and also, are you ZEE?

This is a really odd comment. WHy are the scum playing so well? Why do you ask such a loaded question in ZEE's direction?

because people should look at him, i find him scummie and i believe everyone else should. I also realise the loaded question was a bit too strong. oh well

@everyone who read all of these: y did you waste your time with all of them? it seems pretty pointless to read them all

Waste of time? Hardly. These have been very interesting

realy?

@people that have questions towards me: ask them

Just did

and i hope i have answered them

he also quite obviously tried to fish for my role.

Just trying to see if you're mafia. How can that be scummie?

Because you could be mafia rolefishing for power roles, and we don't know which way it is. That's why its scummy.

Honestly, my impression of this post is the same as Alexhan's. Scum trying the best they can to pass the heat anywhere.

WIFOM hurts my brains

B) I've already answered every question that everyone has asked of me. The only reason you and Azhrei can't see that is because you're both reading selectively. You've dismissed the answers I've given you and have defaulted back into this mode of asking your questions over and over again.

blol. Either I'm blind or you're a liar. Either is fine by me, just point me out to your response and I'll apologize. Or keep my vote where it is.

Oh good, I'm not the only one who 'missed' his answers. I was beginning to doubt myself there. You've just reaffirmed my suspicions. Speaking of hohum, where is that guy? You ain't dead yet Hohum.

@mod: can u nudge hohum

I also find it interesting you've chosen not to comment upon the recent Seb case beyond that little one line about wondering why he never replied.

i have no idea what the hell you are talking about. it's highly likely that i missed it, so please inform me.

So, one post, you claim not to know what I'm talking about when I adress the recent seb case. Then...

I noticed that too, but didn't think much of it.

people may view this as me voting him just because Charrat has, but i was just about to place my votes regardless ..

Vote: seb456zig

the fact that he seemingly knows that i'm going to be killed is suspicious to me. not only that but he tries to makes everyone picture him as a vanilla townie. he also says to picture him as one, which means that he thinks we don't view him as one. i don't think i really thought of him seriously as mafia but now that he has said that, and by re-reading his posts, i don't know why i didn't see it before. he also quite obviously tried to fish for my role.

So, I'm confused. Is this your first game (so you wouldn't be expecting roles beyond a cop) or are you an experienced mafia player who has real-life mafia experience (and so roles beyond simply a cop wouldn't be out of the extraordinary)? I don't see how your two quotes match up.

i have real-life mafia experience with only townies and mafia. does that match up for you?

... You talk about the Seb case! And not only talk, you vote! So... Yeah. Wtf?

And really, your reasons for voting are crap. It's basically a dressed up OMGUS. Your main reason really seems to be he thinks you won't make it to endgame. (Honestly, I don't think you will either) The rest really just seems to be piggybacking off Charrat and GC. And then that last comment... 'does that match up for you?' fuuuuck. Could you sound any scummier, you seem to be trying to make up whatever you think he will believe.

I was thinking that, but I didnt end up thinking it as OMGUS but it's obvious he's following Charrat & possibly greenie

the only interaction between me and Charrat are that we both are voting for you

This is the puppy & master pairup. You follow whatever Charrat tells you to do because he is more experienced than you.

@everyone: Dead people can speak. Just watch what they have said in previous posts (i know noone is dead yet, but i think this day is comming to a close)

He actually does make a valid point here, provided that he's town Otherwise, he's just screwing with our minds.

That would hurt my head like hell if i looked at it the way others have to. It would hurt more then trying to concieve a fourth spatial dimension

@everyone: Dead people can speak. Just watch what they have said in previous posts (i know noone is dead yet, but i think this day is comming to a close)

just because some crazy dead person said that they suspected so-and-so doesn't mean that so-and-so is scum. also, i think this day is far from over, you are over-reacting .. there are only four votes on you. that means that you need two more votes. somebody is most likely going to find a flaw with one of the people that are voting you, (most likely me) and then votes will shift once again .

Best point you've made yet! That said, I can understand where Seb is coming from, as you can essentially trust dead townies as being honest about their suspicions, but you still can't treat them as gospel.

I know it isnt the gospel, im not saying that. I'm saying that they are more trustable then ur common fellow player. I personally don't see it as a particularly great post, but that's just opinion.

@Azhrei:did i miss anything
@hohum:<loaded question>

[seb456zig]

Also, ooc
@everyone: what time zones are you in?

im in GMT+10(+11 atm with dst)

[Green Crayons]

When i say that, you gotta take into account that cooperation isn't always with friends. We work together because we have to. Not because we got the choice. What I'm saying is that making a friend is very suspitious, even if we are trying to work together. It's almost as if you're telling people to forget that there is mafia within our group. Making friends makes you believe that your friend is a townie, but it wouldn't be that hard for a mafia to make friends with a townie.

Tell me what you think

For starters, I think it's interesting that you picked this issue to stand your ground on instead of the role fishing. So, I'm curious - do you not deny that you were role fishing or should I expect some explanation in the future?

As for your quoted rationale, I think it's a fine example of splitting hairs but not actually providing a strong enough difference in the two scenarios, especially considering the context of the posts. ZEE makes a flippant remark about making friends that you take incredibly seriously and call him out for, but when he wants to clarify that it's still a competitive game you give him crap for that as well. It's a lose/lose situation that you've set up for him.

By the way, I'm not necessarily discounting the fact that he was trying to befriend someone, but that post itself didn't look incredibly scummy to me - especially because I don't think anyone was taking it too seriously. But what just really bothered me and stuck out was this false dichotomy that you set up: ZEE's either scum who wants to make us all friends or ZEE's scum who wants us to rip each others' throats out.

This made me laugh a bit because I thought the questions were very broad and not limiting at all. It doesn't say "respond in 17 words or less" or something like that. My response just happened to be short. We could have expanded upon it more if someone wanted to, but that particular statement just happened to fall by the wayside. And its a little out of date now, since Hohum looks pretty town to me right now. He is still an over-zealous finger pointer, though.

And that's part of the point: they were so broad and so general it looks like you plopped down out of the sky without any true relation to the thread. It looks artificial and like a forced attempt to mesh with the town.

i have real-life mafia experience with only townies and mafia. does that match up for you?

Surely it does.

Just trying to see if you're mafia. How can that be scummie?

You asked him why a "vanilla townie" would do whatever it was. Looks like power role fishing to me.

This is the puppy & master pairup. You follow whatever Charrat tells you to do because he is more experienced than you.

I wish scum would be so blatantly obvious. These games would just be easy. I'm also curious if your only basis for this claim is that they're both voting you?

Oh good, I'm not the only one who 'missed' his answers. I was beginning to doubt myself there. You've just reaffirmed my suspicions.

Didn't spy any of his answers in my read through... just a lot of disgruntled talk.

And then that last comment... 'does that match up for you?' fuuuuck. Could you sound any scummier, you seem to be trying to make up whatever you think he will believe.

It seems to go in line with seb's "Tell me what you think" phrase. Neither of which I find to be an impressive tell.

Why what? I IGMEOYed him coz people (not all ppl) think he is scummie, and they might be right

But if you don't currently think that there is any legitimate suspicion on hohum, then you shouldn't be putting IGMEOY, a FOS or an anything else on him. It doesn't make sense to do so unless if you're laying the groundwork for wanting to do a quick-switch vote on him off if it benefits you.

[ZEEnon]

Just trying to see if you're mafia. How can that be scummie?

What I personally believe (quote me if I die)
ZEEnon & Charrat are scumbuddies

so i assume that my answer made you believe that i'm mafia?

please answer this as well .
it was in a separate post,
so you couldn't have missed it .

I was going to answer it, but then I realised I wasn't sure.
I've now backtracked and remember that I've thought of you long before that post you made. Remember that I've already voted you.

if you weren't sure.. why did you vote me ? also, explain to me the reasons why you thought of me long before. every post you reply to me with just gets more and more vague. and Azhrei seems to be defending you really well. of course i'm not going to jump to conclusions, as you are.

just because some crazy dead person said that they suspected so-and-so doesn't mean that so-and-so is scum.

So what you're saying is that, since alive people can say the same things as dead people could've when they were alive... Are you telling me that we shouldn't listen to alive people's suspitions because they are potential crazy dead people? I trust dead townie posts more because they are confirmed town. Please explain your logic here

even more suspicions to go on. how are you SO SURE that the person that is going to be lynched/ killed is going to be town. assuming that you are scum, which i currently believe, we won't be listening to your accusations at all. we will however read all relations and voting patterns of yours. you may have voted your partner to confuse us, so we also have to be aware of that. also, if you turn up as town, i will allow myself to be lynched day two as compensation.

I also realise the loaded question was a bit too

obvious

. oh well

Fixed. It's what he meant.

I also find it interesting you've chosen not to comment upon the recent Seb case beyond that little one line about wondering why he never replied.

i have no idea what the hell you are talking about. it's highly likely that i missed it, so please inform me.

So, one post, you claim not to know what I'm talking about when I adress the recent seb case. Then...

people may view this as me voting him just because Charrat has, but i was just about to place my votes regardless ..

Vote: seb456zig

the fact that he seemingly knows that i'm going to be killed is suspicious to me. not only that but he tries to makes everyone picture him as a vanilla townie. he also says to picture him as one, which means that he thinks we don't view him as one. i don't think i really thought of him seriously as mafia but now that he has said that, and by re-reading his posts, i don't know why i didn't see it before. he also quite obviously tried to fish for my role.

So, I'm confused. Is this your first game (so you wouldn't be expecting roles beyond a cop) or are you an experienced mafia player who has real-life mafia experience (and so roles beyond simply a cop wouldn't be out of the extraordinary)? I don't see how your two quotes match up.

i have real-life mafia experience with only townies and mafia. does that match up for you?

... You talk about the Seb case! And not only talk, you vote! So... Yeah. Wtf?

you said something about a

"little one line about wondering why he never replied"

, which confused me, as i have no idea which little one line (seems to me you are trying to belittle my question)

And really, your reasons for voting are

crap

. It's basically a dressed up OMGUS. Your main reason really seems to be he thinks you won't make it to endgame. (Honestly, I don't think you will either) The rest really just seems to be piggybacking off Charrat and GC. And then that last comment... 'does that match up for you?' fuuuuck. Could you sound any scummier, you seem to be trying to make up whatever you think he will believe.

calling anyone's reasons for voting

that

should never be done. yes, some people's reasons don't make sense. yes, some people's reasons are based on false premises. yes, some people's reasons don't make sense at all. but never should you take this game so seriously that you insult another person's beliefs. continuing on.. it was not an OMGUS. i did not vote for him for the sole reason that he voted for me. i voted for him because i personally believe that he is a mafia member. i think that everyone should vote that way. they should vote for someone because they personally believe it, not because other people are starting to think that way, as it appears seb456zig is. he says so-and-so seems suspicious and scummy, yet he leaves his vote on me. not that i care but everytime i see someone else being accused of something, i see seb456zig agree with them, saying: "oh i thought that too but i didn't want to say anything" basically.

people in this game rip each and every point to shreds. yes, i mentioned that i would like to befriend Tom. that could be due to the fact, oh i don't know, that maybe i could be NEW to this forum. perhaps i haven't made any aquaintances yet. you all are staring in one direction, missing everything in the other ones.

[hohum]

got prodded. I'm around waiting to be lynched.

[ZEEnon]

got prodded. I'm around waiting to be lynched.

get over yourself.
you have what, three votes ?

[Magus_Stragus]

Yeah, hohum, if you don't want to keep playing, then call the mod for a replacement, now that we are still on the first day of the game.

Any roads, I can't post much now, just a few things:

1- Geez, Green Crayons, everything looks suspicious for you. I know that you have to look for possible scummy tell, but it seems like for your standards everything is scummy! How can you make up your mind like that?
2- Seb still hasn't posted anything that has make me doubt of my vote. Yes, it's true that hohum is acting weird, but that doesn't mean that I have to vote for him, specially when I find you scummier. Also, if I attacked him in my post, you wouldn't be the central point of my posts, thus easing you a way to escape from my accussations.
3- GC, you mentioned something about me and metagame. Well, regarding that, I must say that I don't care much about meta. Yes, some people acts the same during different games, but I'm lazy enough to not go through all other players' previous games to find how they act.

[hohum]

My apologies. I need to reread the last few pages and I will something a bit more useful by the end of the day.

[Artem]

OK, catch up time.

... If i spot a scumtell (a REAL one) then ill probably vote. Im not saying i will, but im definently not saying i wont.

How exactly do you quantify a "REAL" scumtells? Are you saying that the scumtells hohum has been dropping are not real?

How is a doc that doesn't know his sanity gonna be careful? I don't like your reasoning. You're saying that they shouldn't try to use their powers until they know FOR SURE who to protect? When is that? And the cop thing... We all know this... Isn't it just adding stuff to confuse us? I know it helps making our thoughts known but this is just making everybody uncertain.

I'll address the doc point, since the cop sanity is obvious. If you look at the wiki, there are several doc sanities: Insane, paranoid, naive, weak, CPR. That means that depending on who he/she and the mafia target, a potential doc can kill a townie or themselves.

Im saying that with a catch 22 im screwed no matter what, but a WIFOM has a chance that i wont be screwed (even though i probably would be).

Too concerned with personal safety. WIFOM is never, ever good for town.

FoS: Seb

2.Magus is a vanilla townie that finds me suspitious for my seemingly inconsistant play.

(it's actually called learning)

Newbie card played by a non-newbie.

So what you're saying is that, since alive people can say the same things as dead people could've when they were alive... Are you telling me that we shouldn't listen to alive people's suspitions because they are potential crazy dead people? I trust dead townie posts more because they are confirmed town. Please explain your logic here

Townies don't know other players' alignments. This remains a fact when they die. Yes, players will re-read the thread keeping in mind that player X is town, but the words said by player X will not be treated as gospel.

@Seb: Why are you so concerned with personal safety and not drawing attention?

Why what? I IGMEOYed him coz people (not all ppl) think he is scummie, and they might be right

Just going with the flow, are we?

I'm liking the pressure on Seb at the moment.

even more suspicions to go on. how are you SO SURE that the person that is going to be lynched/ killed is going to be town. assuming that you are scum, which i currently believe, we won't be listening to your accusations at all. we will however read all relations and voting patterns of yours. you may have voted your partner to confuse us, so we also have to be aware of that. also, if you turn up as town, i will allow myself to be lynched day two as compensation.

Bad post for two reasons:
1) Seb is very sure that

he

will flip town (not just some hypothetical random player), hence him saying that players can quote him later;
2) If you are town, you should

never

put yourself up on an altar. All it does is create WIFOM for town and a free point for the scum;



One more thing I wanted to note:

As for Artem, there is not one thing he has said so far that made me raise an eyebrow. He has been a perfect townie in my eyes. That does not mean I am 100% confident he is town, but he isn't a good candidate to be lynched on the first day, in my opinion.

Please don't give the mafia poll results about who we think is most townie. They can decide who to NK on their own.

[ZEEnon]

2) If you are town, you should never put yourself up on an altar. All it does is create WIFOM for town and a free point for the scum;

if he flips town, people will point to me regardless. they won't take into account that townspeople do make mistakes .

[seb456zig]

I also realise the loaded question was a bit too

obvious

. oh well

Fixed. It's what he meant.

no. I meant strong. I apologize and do you do? You fucking shit on my post. Why the fuck would a town do that? Why are you wasting time on such small things? Why are you changing the way people are suposed to read the post? WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? Do you think you are helping the town acting like this? How does this benefit the town?

Some loaded questions for you, because I dislike you.
ooc:
this is ingame hate, and will not be applied in future games.

[ZEEnon]

I also realise the loaded question was a bit too

obvious

. oh well

Fixed. It's what he meant.

no. I meant strong. I apologize and do you do? You fucking shit on my post. Why the fuck would a town do that? Why are you wasting time on such small things? Why are you changing the way people are suposed to read the post? WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? Do you think you are helping the town acting like this? How does this benefit the town?

Some loaded questions for you, because I dislike you.
ooc:
this is ingame hate, and will not be applied in future games.

i changed it because that's how it seems to me. i wanted to let you know how i'm seeing it.

[Artem]

2) If you are town, you should never put yourself up on an altar. All it does is create WIFOM for town and a free point for the scum;

if he flips town, people will point to me regardless. they won't take into account that townspeople do make mistakes .

I'm going to chalk this comment up to your inexperience.

[seb456zig]

... If i spot a scumtell (a REAL one) then ill probably vote. Im not saying i will, but im definently not saying i wont.

How exactly do you quantify a "REAL" scumtells? Are you saying that the scumtells hohum has been dropping are not real?

I havent noticed any of them realy being that bad. It's like you're trying to get him lynched. But anyway, he still could be scum.

How is a doc that doesn't know his sanity gonna be careful? I don't like your reasoning. You're saying that they shouldn't try to use their powers until they know FOR SURE who to protect? When is that? And the cop thing... We all know this... Isn't it just adding stuff to confuse us? I know it helps making our thoughts known but this is just making everybody uncertain.

I'll address the doc point, since the cop sanity is obvious. If you look at the wiki, there are several doc sanities: Insane, paranoid, naive, weak, CPR. That means that depending on who he/she and the mafia target, a potential doc can kill a townie or themselves.

We can also use the doc as a vig (if they're a CPR doc)

Im saying that with a catch 22 im screwed no matter what, but a WIFOM has a chance that i wont be screwed (even though i probably would be).

Too concerned with personal safety. WIFOM is never, ever good for town.

FoS: Seb

What do you mean "too" concerned? Im concerned but not that much. I think i was just overreacting.

2.Magus is a vanilla townie that finds me suspitious for my seemingly inconsistant play.

(it's actually called learning)

Newbie card played by a non-newbie.

um... what?

So what you're saying is that, since alive people can say the same things as dead people could've when they were alive... Are you telling me that we shouldn't listen to alive people's suspitions because they are potential crazy dead people? I trust dead townie posts more because they are confirmed town. Please explain your logic here

Townies don't know other players' alignments. This remains a fact when they die. Yes, players will re-read the thread keeping in mind that player X is town, but the words said by player X will not be treated as gospel.

@Seb: Why are you so concerned with personal safety and not drawing attention?

Because the last two times I drew too much attention and then i died. I dislike dying.

Why what? I IGMEOYed him coz people (not all ppl) think he is scummie, and they might be right

Just going with the flow, are we?

I think people are misunderstanding. IGMEOY actually stands for i got my eye on you. That means Im looking carefully at the person. Im doing that because others (not all others) see him as scum. So I look at him to see what I think. Make sense?

I'm liking the pressure on Seb at the moment.

Yeah, it's fun. Keep it comming.

even more suspicions to go on. how are you SO SURE that the person that is going to be lynched/ killed is going to be town. assuming that you are scum, which i currently believe, we won't be listening to your accusations at all. we will however read all relations and voting patterns of yours. you may have voted your partner to confuse us, so we also have to be aware of that. also, if you turn up as town, i will allow myself to be lynched day two as compensation.

Bad post for two reasons:
1) Seb is very sure that

he

will flip town (not just some hypothetical random player), hence him saying that players can quote him later;
2) If you are town, you should

never

put yourself up on an altar. All it does is create WIFOM for town and a free point for the scum;

He is trying to persuade people that I'm going to die. What is this, a predeath ceremony? He also stated that 4 votes isnt enough to think ur gonna die. A tad contradictive. What do other kkl think?

One more thing I wanted to note:

As for Artem, there is not one thing he has said so far that made me raise an eyebrow. He has been a perfect townie in my eyes. That does not mean I am 100% confident he is town, but he isn't a good candidate to be lynched on the first day, in my opinion.

Please don't give the mafia poll results about who we think is most townie. They can decide who to NK on their own.

Lol, good point.
Charrat, shhhhh

[seb456zig]

I also realise the loaded question was a bit too

obvious

. oh well

Fixed. It's what he meant.

no. I meant strong. I apologize and do you do? You fucking shit on my post. Why the fuck would a town do that? Why are you wasting time on such small things? Why are you changing the way people are suposed to read the post? WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? Do you think you are helping the town acting like this? How does this benefit the town?

Some loaded questions for you, because I dislike you.
ooc:
this is ingame hate, and will not be applied in future games.

i changed it because that's how it seems to me. i wanted to let you know how i'm seeing it.

I dont realy care if its obvious or not, so how does your change make sense?

[seb456zig]

2) If you are town, you should never put yourself up on an altar. All it does is create WIFOM for town and a free point for the scum;

if he flips town, people will point to me regardless. they won't take into account that townspeople do make mistakes .

Wait, so now I'm town? What is this? Are you just trying to make yourself look good in front of the camera while I (and possibly a few others) can see you for what you are. You're appologizing for a mistake you havn't made yet.

HONESTLY, who doesn't see that as scummie?

[ZEEnon]

seb456zig, no matter how bad it makes me look, i am not going to change my vote from you. sorry, but my instincts are telling me not to. each time someone posts something, you just agree or make it seem like you were also feeling/ thinking the same thing. thats exactly like scum trying to get out of a situation or buy some sympathy .

also, your selective reading makes you seem even more suspicious.

if

you turn up as town, i will allow myself to be lynched day two as compensation.

if

he flips town, people will point to me regardless. they won't take into account that townspeople do make mistakes .

notice the 'if' that are bolded. i didn't say WHEN you turn up as town. i didn't say WHEN you flip innocent, people will point to me.

Wait, so now I'm town? What is this? Are you just trying to make yourself look good in front of the camera while I (and possibly a few others) can see you for what you are. You're appologizing for a mistake you havn't made yet.

HONESTLY, who doesn't see that as scummie?

i'm not the type of person who gives up, but i SO wish that i could just let myself be lynched and then everyone would KNOW that i'm innocent. i don't think YOU or anyone else can see me for what i really am, since you are looking at a computer screen. also, i never said anything about apologizing. even

IF

(yes, i'm going to bold my 'if's now so you can notice them) you are lynched and shown to be innocent, i will NOT apologize. the way you are acting is indeed not pro-town. i said that

IF

it makes the town feel better, they can lynch me. i didn't say anything about being sorry for your death. not that you are going to turn up innocent, according to how i feel.

[hohum]

zeenon has gone from making very bad posts to very good ones. bravo.

[ZEEnon]

zeenon has gone from making very bad posts to very good ones. bravo.

coming from an experience player, that means a lot. thanks. (if this looks like i'm trying to make friends, screw you)

[seb456zig]

lol, w/e

anyway...
I say "...If im town..." because claiming town is stupid and not to mention annoying. I could just say "HEY LOOK, IM TOWN SO DONT LYNCH" but that can easily be said by mafia also. I wanna know other peoples ideas on the matter

@hohum: why are you backing him up? It doesn't seem like an incredibly good post. It has a few flaws. Can you not see how claiming town is a scummie thing to do?

[ZEEnon]

@hohum: why are you backing him up? It doesn't seem like an incredibly good post. It has a few flaws. Can you not see how claiming town is a scummie thing to do?

would you like to take the time to point out those flaws?

Just trying to see if you're mafia. How can that be scummie?

What I personally believe (quote me if I die)
ZEEnon & Charrat are scumbuddies

so i assume that my answer made you believe that i'm mafia?

please answer this as well .
it was in a separate post,
so you couldn't have missed it .

I was going to answer it, but then I realised I wasn't sure.
I've now backtracked and remember that I've thought of you long before that post you made. Remember that I've already voted you.

if you weren't sure.. why did you vote me ? also, explain to me the reasons why you thought of me long before. every post you reply to me with just gets more and more vague. and Azhrei seems to be defending you really well. of course i'm not going to jump to conclusions, as you are.

you still haven't told me the reasons you voted me .