TM 2023 | Super Mario Bros Mafia | Game Over!

[Adorable]

Out of my way! Low hanging fruit coming through.

[Adorable]

I'm guessing the double vote is one vote that counts twice just like that double vote role.

[Adorable]

I'm currently null on everyone at the moment.

[Adorable]

I'm currently null on everyone at the moment.

Thoughts on the interactions between me, Jingle, Cerb and Peta? Fine to have null reads, but you're going to need to elaborate why you have null reads.

I wasn't able to get anything out of the interactions between you, Jingle, Cerb, and Peta. They looked nai.

[Adorable]

LLD has never not scumread me and also we literally just swept a town together, it's not very impressive.

Koba wants to know what Dunn thinks.

dunn also thought one of your posts was scummy (19). he actually said this before i voted you but i wasn't reading the chat

Can you elaborate on why was that post of his scummy? When I had a look at it I wasn't able to see how was it scummy.

[Adorable]

This isn't too sure it uh... sees how that's scummy?

LLD has never not scumread me and also we literally just swept a town together, it's not very impressive.

Koba wants to know what Dunn thinks.

dunn also thought one of your posts was scummy (19). he actually said this before i voted you but i wasn't reading the chat

Can you elaborate on why was that post of his scummy? When I had a look at it I wasn't able to see how was it scummy.

the expressed reasoning was that it feels like he knows the answer but wants to appear solvey

I'm not able to tell if Jingle was faking it or not and I could see it go either way.

[Adorable]

If no one wants the double vote power up then I'll be willing to take it.

[Adorable]

We should still probably give it to someone, right?

Why?

It doesn't do anything and just bloats the thread to do so.

What does that mean by bloats the thread?

[Adorable]

From my early read I overlooked the post where Cerb gave Wgeurts a town read. I'm curious to know if Cerb's town read on Wgeurts was serious or were they joking because at the time Wgeurts only made 1 post which was a vote on Cerb.

[Adorable]

{Peta, Jingle}
{Radical Rat, CSF}
{Adorable, Cerb, Fate, Porkens}
{HPE}

Alright, reread the game so far and bounced numerous ideas with my teammates. My current pulse of the board state is that at most one of Jingle/Peta can be scum, and the rest if not both fall in the bottom 5 reads of mine. Their tango so far would be an amazing yet unlikely opening act considering this is a 2-man scum team game, and would have been entirely unsolicited considering for the majority of it almost half the players were not contributing anything of substance. I lean to calling them both town, and find it more likely that the scum are currently in the lower brackets. Coincidently, that would also make this game incredibly boring if so.

I am not an outstanding scum-hunter, I town hunt and try to place myself in each players head. Bare with me for why my reads are as follows.

Peta

I will admit I personally did not like how they opened up this game but warmed up to this read after bouncing ideas with Xof who has a significantly better impressions of them than I do. Their initial vote and elaboration on Jingle left a poor impression, but I've been told that their keeping cards close to their chest until ready is par for their course, and will be a butt to read until substance does start rolling out. This aligns with what Peta says about themselves in 97.

What I have liked since though, is their interactions with Jingle to gauge them into backing off, and their recent switch to HBE which I'll get to later alongside their other reads. During my catch-up I found myself forming seemingly similar impression of Porken's and HBE. These two weren't hot topic, he initiated reads rather than following others, and his thought process flows naturally. That's all I can really ask for at this stage of the game.

Jingle

Jingle off the bat trying to take double voter discussion off the table in 14 started light town leanings, I agree with the sentiment. Discussion of the mechanic is and was complete white noise with nothing of use to come of it. His following interactions with me from 27 onwards also appear as genuine to probe, although I believe his concerns stem from a misunderstanding I'll get to in a later post. This has remained consistent through to now as evidenced in post 91 for instance. Similarly to Peta, proactive substance rich posting that displays apparent intent to sort players that I can understand and visualise consistently, is as good as I'm gonna get for a town read for now.

Radical Rat

RR is giving me nonchalant, slightly mislead, town leaning vibes as off now. Their first two posts at their worst can be read as mechanics fluffing to appear useful, with only scum having anything to gain from that. I doubt that to be the case however as they remain hung on the issue through to post 54 where interactions with Jingle relating to the matter for the basis for a shoddy vote. Seems a little dissonant from a scum perspective imo. More telling however is that I can follow their train of thought from a town perspective. Their unvote in post 79 is consistent with my view of the game at the time, and his (team's) town reads/push on CSF just don't make lots of sense for scum at the moment. His quite intense reads are a bit far-fetched, but they come across as genuine and don't appear to be artificially crafted.

CSF

CSF hasn't provided much content, nor much elaboration, but from the little substance they have provided I can see a town intent. Their vote change to Cerb in 82 and explained in 88 is a bit of stretch considering the timeframe Cerb made his few posts in, but is such a poor option to randomly go for as scum there. It's questionable, stands out, nobody will follow, just not a good take to make as scum. Paired with them indicating a town read of RR in the same posts, which I can agree with, leads me to lightly lean town on this slot myself.

Porkens

Coming in to say that they don't place much stock in early game reads in post 106 and then providing nothing of substance thereafter means I have nothing to really go off really. First had a slight town lean on them as I liked them indicating a Peta town lean in 107 which matched my view, and I could see possible thought process behind 111 leaning scum on Jingle despite disagreeing. But the post made before 107 that very same minute says that they hadn't read the game yet, which eliminates any substance there. Similarly anything of substance regarding his interaction with Jingle is dismissed in post 116. Unsure why people are town leaning here, or is it because of the above too?

Adorable

Adorable is gonna be a pain for me to sort as I didn't like any of their posting at first, with them going from stating they have no reads in post 40, to posting a whole bunch of no substance burger like in 47 and 48 etc. After consulting Xof, apparently this is just how they play and is consistent with a town game they played. Like... post 109 doesn't even make sense? I'd think it self-evident Cerb isn't town piling me there and how can you then use that as the basis for anything? This slot is going to be a headache for me to gauge.

If anything, of note is that they mentioned the double voting mechanic twice in 30 and 67. I'm interested why they were so focused on it?

Cerb

I have absolutely no lean here so far, as I need to see actual substance. I do have to say that the thought has crossed my mind that the low activity from Cerb here could be indicative of low motivation, due to a higher barrier of play. Cerb was in the past as I remember very analytical and methodical in his play, to do so as Scum knowing there's eyes on it takes more energy. It would make sense that a scum Cerb would be less willing to jump in with coachella upcoming than town cerb. This is very much a stretch however, and likely unfair. Not willing to place stock in it, but need to see Cerb in action when he's properly around.

Fate

Hasn't shown up yet.

HPE

The reason why I like Peta so much, as I don't like this slot, and I do like the timing of Peta's vote. Let's break it down:

This slot just keeps popping up, indicating activity and that it's following the game, yet never posts anything of substance. It's all comes across as for show, suspiciously like they want to appear useful but are hesitant to commit to anything that could complicate matters.

Posts 46, 50 and 51 see it making remarks that give the impression of being involved whilst when dissected, yield no concrete or substantive information as to their current thoughts. 73 and 89 are both for instance, just more nothing burger. Most, if not all the others around then, are more of the same. Peta evidently beat me to it regarding applying pressure, which I liked. Around the time I formed these thoughts in the thread his vote popped up out of nowhere.

I also really don't like post 122 in response to said vote, it is just more empty questioning without providing anything of substance. To then followup with that by criticising Jingle for not having reliable reads in 124 having not provided any themselves, to then LITERALLY in 135 stating they don't have them either whilst just calling a followup wagon vote sheep, is not a good look. I struggle to picture town intent here at this stage of the game, and that makes them my best option to vote right now.

A sidenote, to add here again, is that they too are weirdly obsessed with the double vote but even moreso than Adorable. Posts 15, 60 and 64 all come back to it.

[post=HPE]HPE[/post]

You said me, HPE, and Porkens have posted little of no substance. It is early day 1 and there will always be players posting little of no substance no matter what alignment they are. I actively play mafia elsewhere and a majority of the players over there post little of no substance and because of this I don't understand why you are making a big deal about this.

You have a very unusual playstyle that will be hard for me to read.

[Adorable]

I'm checking in and getting ready for a meeting and I haven't read everything from where I left off.

When I first saw wgeurts reads list with long explanations it bothered me because it came way too soon early in day 1 and it didn't show paranoia. What stopped me from voting wgeurts is xofelf informing wgeurts about my playstyle and I started wondering if wgeurts is scum I have been thinking xofelf would not inform them about my playstyle.

[Adorable]

You said me, HPE, and Porkens have posted little of no substance. It is early day 1 and there will always be players posting little of no substance no matter what alignment they are. I actively play mafia elsewhere and a majority of the players over there post little of no substance and because of this I don't understand why you are making a big deal about this.

You have a very unusual playstyle that will be hard for me to read.

As a quick note, please snip out the wall of text if you're quoting it heh, or spoiler it.

Out of curiosity, where do you play mafia outside of MS? I strongly disagree that there is nothing of substance in Day 1, it is far more speculative yes, but people's attitude towards a game can always be gauged no matter the stage. Do you disagree?

I play in WG. I wasn't able to understand much on what you were saying in the second sentence. I don't disagree on people's attitude towards a game can be gauged.

[Adorable]

I didn't like how Fate voted HPE with no elaboration and had nothing else to add.

Cerb has not been asking me good questions and these are the kind of questions that don't help on scum hunting. It looked like busywork to me. I would prefer players ask me question with a single quote and not a wallpost because I don't know how to edit the huge wall.

HPE I am null on and I can also imagine a town HPE being low hanging fruit. They said they are a passive player, I am also a passive player and I see nothing wrong with being passive.

[Adorable]

Okay, homework done.

For those who didn't follow along - in a game where Adorable was town, someone who effectively said they were going to defend Adorable was NK'd, and the next day when another slot came after Adorable they made the case that perhaps the person who was NK'd was killed specifically to make it easier to get Adorable limmed.

So, Adorable is capable of slight moonlogic and may have an overinflated idea of their own importance in scum planning. ^^

Where did you get this info from?

[Adorable]

JUST FOR YOU ADORABLE!!!

I'm currently null on everyone at the moment.

If no one wants the double vote power up then I'll be willing to take it.

Why are you even saying these things? I don't see an objective to either post?

We should still probably give it to someone, right?

Why?

It doesn't do anything and just bloats the thread to do so.

What does that mean by bloats the thread?

I don't want to hate on someone for asking questions, but what is your objective here? I assume you know what bloating the thread means, and also understand why talking about this would do so. Which means you have some other objective to asking the question, so what is it?

My objective was to let players know that I didn't have any reads and it's better to share what I have been feeling instead of keeping it to myself. A teammate of mine said I should get the double vote power which is why I said in the thread I would be willing to take it. I didn't know on what bloating the thread means which is why I asked.

[Adorable]

Where did you get this info from?

wgeurtz linked TM2021. Honestly I wish I could find my notes from that game (I was feeding Ari thoughts constantly).

I missed this earlier and now I see.

[Adorable]

JUST FOR YOU ADORABLE!!!

I'm currently null on everyone at the moment.

If no one wants the double vote power up then I'll be willing to take it.

Why are you even saying these things? I don't see an objective to either post?

We should still probably give it to someone, right?

Why?

It doesn't do anything and just bloats the thread to do so.

What does that mean by bloats the thread?

I don't want to hate on someone for asking questions, but what is your objective here? I assume you know what bloating the thread means, and also understand why talking about this would do so. Which means you have some other objective to asking the question, so what is it?

My objective was to let players know that I didn't have any reads and it's better to share what I have been feeling instead of keeping it to myself. A teammate of mine said I should get the double vote power which is why I said in the thread I would be willing to take it. I didn't know on what bloating the thread means which is why I asked.

Interesting. This post is approximately 55% scum, 45% town. I think it's *slighly* more scum than town to want to get your thoughts out in the game ahead of people questioning you about them, and it's *definitely* more scum than town to defer responsibility for doing something that the game has decided is scummy. Interesting that you did not know what was meant by bloating the thread, but understood, makes sense in that case.

I disagree on this.

[Adorable]

Was it GiF who suggested you take the double vote?

yes

[Adorable]

A teammate of mine said I should get the double vote power which is why I said in the thread I would be willing to take it.

Why did they recommend it?

I don't want to say it now when we got 2 scum roaming around.

[Adorable]

I noticed there is a vote on Fate and I'll join.

VOTE: Fate

[Adorable]

Seeing more of Fate's posts, they look like the type of player who plays for entertainment and I was not expecting them to be that kind of player. These kind of players are hard to read and they play like that as either alignment.

[Adorable]

though it'll probably be tomorrow before it can be the one going out and finding posts to analyze.

time for a few Briefly Elaborated Jingle Posts This One Likes™:

This is a pretty good point and 22 is indeed kinda weird with this context.

This one very much agrees with the latter half of this post.

REALLY good mechtalk/spec, certain towny vibe from Jingle advocating the power-up now after not caring for it early in the day but that might just be a wacky read from me.

Willing to locktown this slot tbh because this is a really good looking ISO in general.

Jingle looks like a player who is good playing as both alignment and I have been hesitant on putting him as town out of paranoia of wrongly town reading scum. I agree with the 3rd link about Jingle and it gave me towny vibe. Jingle has been against anyone getting the vote power and then later he changes his mind and wants me to have the vote power and does his speculation talk in a towny way. That change of mind looked towny.

[Adorable]

Afterwards when I thought Fate is a player who plays for entertainment, I haven't been taking their posts seriously anymore because my guess is Fate will make posts to make themself look funny even if it means making scummy posts.

[Adorable]

I'm lost in this game and my teammates are mia.

[Adorable]

I read the wallposts that were about Peta and HPE. The stuff they did looked nai to me and I don't know how to read them.

[Adorable]

Like, eliminating Jingle gives so little and loses a lot if wrong.

HPE has interactions regarding Fate, Porkens, myself, and Peta. There's also the wagons which spring up in competition, the people that didn't commit, and the people that went all for it. If, and I genuinely believe that likely, they flip red, this game is really easy sailing. If they flip green, if I'm not immediately mislynched, there's a lot of information to be gained and even if I do go out Day 2 I think we're left with enough associative information to be left in a good position. I am willing to stake myself on this

You suspect HPE is red and if they are red who would be in the poe?

[Adorable]

From my pov I can't really think of anyone who would be HPE scum partner.

[Adorable]

I read the wallposts that were about Peta and HPE. The stuff they did looked nai to me and I don't know how to read them.

do you have anyone in the game you do have a read on?

Lean town on Jingle and wgeurts.

I want to see Cerb post more because I might be bias on this read but his approach towards me gave me scum vibes. The questions they asked me were not good, he said a post of mine is 55% - 44% scum which I disagree on, when CSF asked Cerb what would their solve of a team be they said Adorable/Jingle and on the same post they said the team is unlikely and I was thinking what was even the point of answering that question when they said the team is unlikely.

[Adorable]

From my pov I can't really think of anyone who would be HPE scum partner.

you think hpe is unaligned with everyone in the game?

Mos of the players voted HPE except for me, Jingle, Cerb, Porkens, RR.

I know that I'm town and I'm removing myself from the list, I leaned town on Jingle and removed him from the list, HPE suspected Porkens buddying them which didn't look like something a scum team would do, Cerb questions on HPE I wasn't sure if this could be seen as a team or not and I guessed it looked unlikely, I will have to admit I forgot RR.

[Adorable]

VOTE: Cerb666

[Adorable]

Cerb has said some pretty shady stuff which can't be ignored. Some players caught onto it.

[Adorable]

I'm not a fan of meta reads. Porkens play reminds me of some of the players I play with on WG. It could be lazy town or scum. Porkens is a slot I wouldn't mind going over if they don't give more thoughts about the game.

[Adorable]

GIF town reads CSF and I agree with the town read.

GIF town reads Fate for not knowing the setup. I think Fate was joking and wanted to be funny pretending on not knowing what the setup is.

GIF said Porkens posts look bad and thinks it doesn't come from scum. Porkens to me looks like they can flip any alignment.

[Adorable]

Eh fair, I assume it's technically 2.5 if you include myself. Jingle is the .5, wgeurts is the 1(as the only person who I explicitly said I was not interested in limming today). Perhaps it will help you all recognize this when I state that on D1, nothing is going to have more than a lean in either direction - so generally saying something is any amount more town than scum or vice versa is the equivalent of voting for someone or declaring them conftown, as far as interpreting strength of reads is concerned.

Wgeurts, you should know that, so I am a little curious why you are keeping up the pretext that I haven't expressed strong stances on anyone, when I've expressed enough that you, at least, should be able to pick.up what I've been putting down...which is that everyone else is not town enough to for me to fight for at this moment.

Also this post comes to you from a set by the band "Los Bitchos", they're pretty cool.

Are you ranking players by numbers from town to not town? I was having a hard time following on what you were saying on this post.

[Adorable]

Eh fair, I assume it's technically 2.5 if you include myself. Jingle is the .5, wgeurts is the 1(as the only person who I explicitly said I was not interested in limming today). Perhaps it will help you all recognize this when I state that on D1, nothing is going to have more than a lean in either direction - so generally saying something is any amount more town than scum or vice versa is the equivalent of voting for someone or declaring them conftown, as far as interpreting strength of reads is concerned.

Wgeurts, you should know that, so I am a little curious why you are keeping up the pretext that I haven't expressed strong stances on anyone, when I've expressed enough that you, at least, should be able to pick.up what I've been putting down...which is that everyone else is not town enough to for me to fight for at this moment.

Also this post comes to you from a set by the band "Los Bitchos", they're pretty cool.

Are you ranking players by numbers from town to not town? I was having a hard time following on what you were saying on this post.

Did you read my other posts?

I've read all of your posts and at times find myself getting lost on what you are saying.

[Adorable]

Adorable kinda scum

Elaborate on this.

[Adorable]

I did not like Porkens recent post about me and it looked like they were making up a reason to scum read me. I'm good with a Cerb and Porkens wagon.

[Adorable]

I did not like Porkens recent post about me and it looked like they were making up a reason to scum read me. I'm good with a Cerb and Porkens wagon.

?????????????????????????????

what the hell is your narrative that porkens recent vote was scum on scum

I never said this was scum on scum. Don't make stuff up.

[Adorable]

I just read Fate's signature and it says they keep alternating between narratives of doing it for fun.

[Adorable]

I mean that might be a town post but no not me

Why does that not look like a town post? Cerb claimed Mario.

[Adorable]

UNVOTE:

[Adorable]

VOTE: Porkens

[Adorable]

Can anyone give me a summary on what I have missed? I have some catching up to do and I have a meeting in 30 minutes.

[Adorable]

Still not caught up and Fate's defense on Porkens pinged me.

[Adorable]

Adorable do you just get pinged by people implying you're scummy? You did it to me. And now that Fate is proposing you as the cw to porkens, you're doing it to fate.

?????

I often do get pinged by players who are in my poe who try to go after me. At times I feel like I am a magnet that gets scum to vote me.

[Adorable]

When you say fates push on you pinged you can you point to what you mean? I believe I know, but that’s rather ambiguous atm.

I said Fate's defense on Porkens pinged me.

Cerb asked me a question if I often get pinged by players going after me and I thought Cerb meant that I got pinged by them for how the way they approached me before the claim.

[Adorable]

I'll check in here later when I'm done with the meeting.

[Adorable]

When you say fates push on you pinged you can you point to what you mean? I believe I know, but that’s rather ambiguous atm.

I said Fate's defense on Porkens pinged me.

Cerb asked me a question if I often get pinged by players going after me and I thought Cerb meant that I got pinged by them for how the way they approached me before the claim.

My b, but the point still stands. Can you point to where exactly you were pinged? Like, a post or a few posts you thought were particularly indicative?

788 809 These posts from Fate pinged me. Porkens has been looking scummy and in one of the post Fate calls them town and I see nothing towny about Porkens. This made me wonder if there is tmi going on.

[Adorable]

Why is Jingle getting voted?

[Adorable]

jingle what alignment is porkens going to flip

I expect town, though would be happy with a scumflip.

Why do you think Porkens is town?

[Adorable]

When you say fates push on you pinged you can you point to what you mean? I believe I know, but that’s rather ambiguous atm.

I said Fate's defense on Porkens pinged me.

Cerb asked me a question if I often get pinged by players going after me and I thought Cerb meant that I got pinged by them for how the way they approached me before the claim.

My b, but the point still stands. Can you point to where exactly you were pinged? Like, a post or a few posts you thought were particularly indicative?

788 809 These posts from Fate pinged me. Porkens has been looking scummy and in one of the post Fate calls them town and I see nothing towny about Porkens.

This made me wonder if there is tmi going on.

Why are you still voting Porkens then?

I've been wondering if Porkens and Fate are a team, or if Fate is scum who knows Porkens is town, or if Fate is town who is defending scum. My vote is still on Porkens is because I am not caught up and last time I was on before I checked in was when I started to suspect Porkens.

[Adorable]

When I saw wgeurts voting Jingle, they said it's them or Jingle today and I interpreted it as if either Jingle or wgeurts will get flipped. I don't know how that happened and why.

[Adorable]

@Porkens I want Porkens to claim now because deadline is coming soon, they are being wagoned, and is suspected for being scum.

[Adorable]

I'm reading page 35 and Fate is contradicting themself. They said scum aren't in the low hanging fruit and they voted a low hanging fruit.

[Adorable]

yeah so that's a scumclaim

fwiw jingle should never be allowed to endgame because his play this phase has been downright horrific. i pulled the detente with him partly because i thought he might actually be a mason with hpe but his posts after proved to not be the case. i think the weird round of questioning might be pocketing, not sure. regardless if he's not cleared by an investigation don't let him off the hook.

everyone else off wagon i think is town tbqh. generally when scum plays like porkens their partner is going to recognize and cut bait sooner rather than later

So… just to unpack here: I’m confscum. And also Porkens is confscum. And also I’m literally the only person in the thread who would see porkens scum buddy flailing and dying and goes “you know how I should react to that? By drawing literally all of the attention to me.”

for the record that was a reaction to what i mistakenly presumed was an accidental selfhammer, which is not the case. this is also before you came into the thread and had a crying screaming flailing meltdown at me calling you out

but again i've laid out alternative scenarios. i think it's possible porkens's partner cut bait on him and is voting him. i'm not gonna fully discuss that right now. i just want you to be the elimination 100% of the time following a porkens red flip, absent anything mechanical clearing you. because your play makes far more sense as being proscum and you shouldn't be given a pass for it.

What did you think about my read on Jingle on 322

You said Jingle's play makes far more sense as proscum and what would be the scum motivation for him to be against people getting the double vote to then changing his mind and wanting me to have the double vote and speculates about me having the double vote?

[Adorable]

What did you think about my read on Jingle on 322

You said Jingle's play makes far more sense as proscum and what would be the scum motivation for him to be against people getting the double vote to then changing his mind and wanting me to have the double vote and speculates about me having the double vote?

i don't think it's impossible to fake that, however, i changed my mind on him being scum again and think he's town but misguided

To me that play looked inconsistent to be scum and have been struggling on figuring out why the change of mind if Jingle is scum.

What made you come around to a town Jingle?

[Adorable]

What is everyone's stance here?

What would be your order of elimination?

[Adorable]

please let me kstay in the game. just look elsewhere. im just town.

Claim now.

[Adorable]

I don't like it when there is stalling and most of the time it is scum who stalls.

[Adorable]

toad, vanilla town,

SWING YOUR ARMS
FROM SIDE TO SIDE

Sample VT PM was a Goomba. While it isn't entirely inconceivable there could be two different VT flavors, this very well may be a scumslip

This was my thought when I saw the claim.

[Adorable]

VOTE: petapan

[Adorable]

I don't have confident town reads and players I think are town are Jingle and Cerb. Rest of the players are in my poe.

[Adorable]

I did not like peta's end of day. He said he wouldn't towncore RR and when it was near end of day he puts RR as town and there was no progression on the read there.

[Adorable]

I still don't like Fate and anyone who is town reading Fate explain the town read.

[Adorable]

I did not like peta's end of day. He said he wouldn't towncore RR and when it was near end of day he puts RR as town and there was no progression on the read there.

because i thought how they were reacting in the moment was towny

Show me which post.

[Adorable]

but let's build on that idea

why, specifically, is me not having a visible progression on RR bad/scummy?

Progressions are very important because if I don't see the progression then it makes it look like scum is faking a read.

[Adorable]

but let's build on that idea

why, specifically, is me not having a visible progression on RR bad/scummy?

Progressions are very important because if I don't see the progression then it makes it look like scum is faking a read.

why is it necessary to fake a townread on RR in that moment?

RR was suspecting you and your switch on the read made it look like you were going to pocket them and get on their good side.

[Adorable]

also i'll just say it now that cakez did a funny with the flavors which is why i voted there

I thought I saw you say Porkens is obv scum.

[Adorable]

also i'll just say it now that cakez did a funny with the flavors which is why i voted there

I thought I saw you say Porkens is obv scum.

yes i thought he was scum and at that exact moment he claimed a flavor i thought was suspicious

You made it sound like you voted Porkens was because of the flavor and not because of Porkens being obvscum.

[Adorable]

but let's build on that idea

why, specifically, is me not having a visible progression on RR bad/scummy?

Progressions are very important because if I don't see the progression then it makes it look like scum is faking a read.

why is it necessary to fake a townread on RR in that moment?

RR was suspecting you and your switch on the read made it look like you were going to pocket them and get on their good side.

do you think i'd pocket them with an unexplained read with "no progression"?

Yes

[Adorable]

do you think i'd pocket them with an unexplained read with "no progression"?

Yes

how is that supposed to work, exactly?

"hey RR, i think you're town now. no i will not explain why"

"ah i see and accept this you are towncored my brother"

do you think that's realistic? do you often see scum doing that?

I don't remember if I've seen or not. I do remember scum players having bad progression on a read they had from town to scum or scum players picking on a player scum reading them for a post that never happened.

[Adorable]

do you think i'd pocket them with an unexplained read with "no progression"?

Yes

how is that supposed to work, exactly?

"hey RR, i think you're town now. no i will not explain why"

"ah i see and accept this you are towncored my brother"

do you think that's realistic? do you often see scum doing that?

I don't remember if I've seen or not. I do remember scum players having bad progression on a read they had from town to scum or scum players picking on a player scum reading them for a post that never happened.

right, i think sometimes scum have bad progressions when they need to eliminate a townie and have to come up with poor excuses for it. i think that's a valid line of thought because opportunism is a decently reliable tell.

the thing is that the opposite (scum shifting a read to town for no particular reason) happens less often in my experience. so what you're throwing at me is a fairly generic argument that doesn't actually provide a fully formed thought as to why my read shifting makes me scum.

That's what you're doing to me. You put me as town to then voting me and there was no progression with your read on me.

[Adorable]

I'm Princes Peach a loved bodyguard. The loved passive gets removed in mylo/lylo.

[Adorable]

I'm Princes Peach a loved bodyguard. The loved passive gets removed in mylo/lylo.

Full claim. Action last night what LOVED does, etc

Loved means when all majority votes are on me I would need 1 more vote on myself to get eliminated.

I protected Jingle last night.

[Adorable]

VOTE: Fate

[Adorable]

Cerb is softing that he has a conditional result, thus would like time to figure out what it means. A role that should get a result but didn't would make sense in that context.

Yep.

My investigative is a vanilla cop, and it returned that Adorable *wasn't* vanilla, which meant it didn't clear her for probtown(since it's unlikely a goon exists here with the starting numbers.)

Since Adorable went ahead and claimed, however, if she's telling the truth there's no longer any value in concealing the result.

Why did you use the vanilla cop on me when I softed pr on page 11?

[Adorable]

@SirCakez Can the tanuki suit power up be used with regular action?

[Adorable]

GIF has been doing mech solving. I'll have to paraphrase those later since I am busy with chores.

[Adorable]

If we test out my loved passive I will be the 5th vote so that I can unvote afterwards.

[Adorable]

I'll be voting now. No one else vote me.

[Adorable]

VOTE: Adorable

[Adorable]

UNVOTE:

[Adorable]

I asked just now.

[Adorable]

Adorable
Petapan
Wgeurts*
HighPrincessErinys
Fate
Radical Rat
Cerberus v666

This is roughly where I'm at at the moment, btw. Obviously pending Fate's claim, but yeah.

Is the bottom your suspects or is it the top?

[Adorable]

I asked in pm what would happen if I had the tanuki suit and protected someone from a kill and SirCakez said I will die. The suit only stops actions.

[Adorable]

This is GIF's readslist.

Adorable
Radical Rat
HPE
Fate
Jingle
petapan
wgeurts
Cerb v666

[Adorable]

Ask but don't publish if GiF is sharing that for reel reels or if that is designed to entice a particular fakeclaim.

I don't know what this means.

[Adorable]

VOTE: Powerup HPE

[Adorable]

Not sure if my powerup vote on HPE will count or not because it seems like I'm doing this wrong.

[Adorable]

You did it right, though you're voting for the wrong person.

I will hammer HPE if it becomes necessary though, I agree that it would be second choice.

I sheeped GIF because they said to vote power up HPE.

[Adorable]

GIF suspected earlier one of the joat claim or rolestopper claim is scum. GIF is leaning on Cerb being mafia and thinks the vanilla cop was made to find pr and the roleblock was made to stop the rolestopper and tracker. The 1 shot bulletproof does not warrant a strongman. If there was a strongman then it means the bulletproof serves no purpose. GIF suspects there's one scum in the pr claim and one scum in the vt claim.


Fate claimed a role that I've never heard of before and at first glance it looked like a fake claim. My guess of the scum team has been Cerb/vt or Cerb/Fate.

[Adorable]

GIF thinks there's one scum in the vt claim that got a fake vt role pm and says scum could have easily got screwed over if they did not know that all vt are Toads. When scum gets a fake vt role pm normally they are goon or scum-only role. GIF thinks there's a strongman and this is why he thinks there's a scum in a vt claim.

[Adorable]

So GIF’s proposed setup is

3vt
Rolestopper
Bodyguard
Even tracker
UB
Luigi

V

Goon and full Sman?

And town gets a public rolestop and something else on top of that?

I agree that scum probably had a toad pm to look at, but there’s no way all of that power and the extra mislim that this being a ten player gives us. Also, full sman goon doesn’t at all explain the mechanical break of rolestopper and Luigi cross targeting.

You misunderstood GIF. I paraphrased yesterday he thinks the scum team is Cerb/vt claim and I didn't paraphrase the setup on what GIF suspected. This is what he thinks the setup is.

VT x 3
Loved Bodyguard
Even night Tracker
A Motion Detector of some sort
Universal Backup
Rolestopper

vs

JoaT
1-shot Strongman

[Adorable]

At the start of day 2 I had RR and Peta in poe. I voted Peta because I didn't like his end of day 1 play. I'm still suspicious of Fate and their claim looked fake. GIF has been telling me Fate is town for claiming last and for the conflicting result which was a bold play that he saw it unlikely for scum to get in a 1 vs 1.

Whenever I am scum, me and my scum buddies claim last in a mass claim and this is why Fate claiming last I don't see it towny. That conflicting result from Fate it could be scum who messed up on their claim. I'm still suspicious of Fate and only reason why I'm not looking too hard on Fate is because of GIF's town read on Fate and GIF had a feeling Porkens was town and his read turned out to be right.

[Adorable]

right so I'm saying the tracker is notfuckwithable


Now between RR and Adorable we can confirm my investigation

then we clear a bunch of shit up

like Jingle I expected you to already have a gamebreaking Night target plan thuoght up

I don't see how you can confirm with your investigation. You claimed a conflicting result.

[Adorable]

If RR is town then I suspect Fate is going to keep on lying and I don't trust this play at all. For RR to be town, then Fate shouldn't have gotten a result.

[Adorable]

I can imagine if Fate is a ghost hunter and me, Fate, and a ghost visit the same player, Fate will say he detected paranormal activity and will say I'm the ghost. In this scenario it feels like my role is meant to be mislim bait.

[Adorable]

I literally cannot understand what Adorable is saying anymroe (as in where they are coming from) and am going to just ignore the slot until PoE dictates otherwise

*words words wordds*

"my role is mislim bait*






??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Here's another reason why I don't like Fate. Feels like scum is trying to downplay my ability.

[Adorable]

I'll be sheeping GIF and his mind on Cerb hasn't changed and is still leaning on Cerb being a mafia joat.

I haven't been liking Fate's new posts. If Fate is town then he is a distraction to town and I haven't been impressed by him.

[Adorable]

Eh, I'd see what you're saying if the support wasn't clearly there. I don't see any reason why scum would care about rushing this if it's already a foregone conclusion.

I mean, preying on town apathy is a thing, and letting the day drag without any action happening since nobody is engaging with anything other than waiting for me to make posts is a great way to build up that apathy.

You're town reading Wgeurts, RR, town leaned me and is there anyone you have been suspecting on day 2?

[Adorable]

I mean my point is that with the wagon existing in its present state for so long, I'd have expected scum to capitalize on it by now.

You saying "Ah, but the wagon exists! Checkmate athesists!" isn't super relevant, no.

How so? The wagon is dead literally because I asked it to be dead. I wouldn’t expect scum to want to go against my request for a little time given that I seem to have the respect and trust of everyone to at least a moderate degree.

GIF has been yelling at me to vote Cerb.

[Adorable]

For anyone who forgot, GIF suspects the second scum is within the vt claim who got a vt fake claim and thinks it's a strongman.

[Adorable]

Don't presume power-ups in the consideration of setup speculation. Power-ups intend to be a prize and it loses the point of being a prize if it gets factored into the setup balance.

[Adorable]

Don't presume power-ups in the consideration of setup speculation. Power-ups intend to be a prize and it loses the point of being a prize if it gets factored into the setup balance.

That’s… a garbage take. Of course the power ups are going to be a factor in setup balance. We don’t have newbies where we suddenly grant a player a vig kill because they made a really funny post, because that would be horribly unbalanced and bad for the game. We don’t let people dayvig on their scumdays because that would fuck with game balance and be bad for games. Similarly, every aspect of this game, from roles to powerups to flavor are all factors in how the game is designed. Given that this is team mafia and not a bastard meme setup, cakez at least attempted to make it balanced.

The power-ups we have seen are not strong. If the prize was balanced, then it was by lessening the power of the prize themselves. Stuff like a Vig is a strong power and I doubt it will be a power-up.

[Adorable]

Don't presume power-ups in the consideration of setup speculation. Power-ups intend to be a prize and it loses the point of being a prize if it gets factored into the setup balance.

What do you mean here? Are you saying that the power ups shouldn't be considered part of the setup at all, or just that since they can go to either Town or Scum, the balance impact is negligible? Or something else?

The latter.

[Adorable]

Should I just hammer Cerb or wait until he posts?

[Adorable]

VOTE: Cerb

[Adorable]

Reading through Cerb's iso during the night phase I wasn't able to figure out who fits a team with Cerb. I removed Cerb/wgeurts team because there was an interaction between these two that did not look partnery and it looked like Cerb was pocketing a town wgeurts.

[Adorable]

Last day Jingle said RR should protect in Fate or me and I am surprised mafia killed Fate because of this and I would have thought mafia would kill elsewhere.

[Adorable]

Last day Jingle said RR should protect in Fate or me and I am surprised mafia killed Fate because of this and I would have thought mafia would kill elsewhere.

Also, two shot rolestop not being used on a claimed investigate because "I could do more later" is sus as fuck.

Does GIF want to tell me that

3 VT
Even Tracker
UB
2 Shot Rolestop
Loved BG

1 shot public rolestop
1 shot public doc

VS

3 Shot Roleblocker
Limited SMan

is reasonable?

The way how RR came out like that today I can see it go either way. For RR to be town then it would mean Fate was killed by a strongman because I find this hard to believe mafia would kill Fate by a normal faction kill when you said last day for RR to protect either Fate or me.

Last time I checked from GIF he still thinks the second scum is a strongman. I'll ask and see what he thinks of the setup.

[Adorable]

Jingle do you really think a rolestopper is scum with a scum roleblocker that flipped?

[Adorable]

VOTE: Power up wgeurts

[Adorable]

@Adorable
I know we did this with the Tanuki already, but would you mind asking Cakez if the mushroom can protect you from dying if your target is attacked?

The mushroom would protect me.

[Adorable]

Thoughts Time:

My first guess for scum here is peta. He was on Porkens, but off Cerb, I've been scumreading him off and on throughout the game, and judging by end of day, Fate would have agreed.

Jingle is a source of mild paranoia for me. In general, I'd trust him more than myself on mechanical matters, but when he's saying my role shouldn't exist, and I have my role... at the very least, he's wrong. I also think that if there was scum bussing peta, Jingle is the most likely to be that scum.

Adorable is probably just Town. We know she's Loved, and she was the swing vote for Cerb, probably could have turned it onto me instead if she'd wanted to.

HPE scares me a lot, because while I'm leaning Town presently, if it is scum we're kinda fucked. Was also on Porkens but off Cerb, was frankly bizarrely trusting of his claim, the kill makes the most sense in this world, and I'm not 100% convinced Daisy makes sense as a UB... but also willingly generating conftown is something scum usually avoids, and there were a couple angles that could have been taken to mislim me instead... but also doing things this way is safer and no one's going to want to lim it in MeLo... but I don't know if I'm willing to give up a potential cop shot going into ELo.

Wgeurts is IC now, because even if HPE is lying, they can't both be scum, but I was strongly townreading them anyway.


Conclusions: I don't fuckin' have any

I have paranoia on all of the players here except for wgeurts and these reads looks reasonable. Last day you should have claimed 2 shot rolestopper instead of claiming it on day 3 because now there has been doubts on the claim.

[Adorable]

I've been planning on looking through players completed scum games who are not cleared and wanted to see how they treat their scum buddies. I had a look at peta and RR scum games so far and will have a look at Jingle and HPE later.


Skimming through 4 of peta's completed scum games iso he looks like the kind of scum player who will always suspect his own scum buddies. In his completed scum games he has voted his own buddy, calls his buddy scum but never votes them and continues to shade them as the days passes by, and puts his scum buddy in the poe. In this game he hasn't suspected Cerb at all and instead thought Cerb was town. I can actually see a world where peta is town who was wrong on his read on Cerb and this looks like this is out of his scum range.

Skimmed through 4 of RR completed scum games iso and this is tricky for me. Either RR will not mention their buddies at all, they will bus, or they will mention their buddy and put them in a list of suspect pool but never votes their buddy. On day 1 RR didn't really mention Cerb that much and put Cerb at e-1. Looks like this can go either way to me.

[Adorable]

anyway i am entirely in favor of killing me today, wgeurts protects adorable, adorable protects HPE, RR protects wgeurts. (you can shuffle the latter two if you have a different comfort level just firm it up before ending the day)

I'm cool with this. I'm honestly fine with HPE/Adorable/wgeurts winning atp if any of them are scum. Are we agreed that "I failed my protection due to strongman" gets instantly elimmed?

If so, I say we wait for PRs to confirm they are down to clown and then just end the day.

You have been saying RR is scummy and now you say you are cool with a peta elim and what made you change your mind on being okay with a peta elim?

I'd rather not end the day early.

[Adorable]

Eliminating in a player who failed their protection because of a strongman looks manipulative.

[Adorable]

Does Koba disagree with you that it's auto-win?

Koba thinks there’s a chance that someone will vote adorable or HPE over peta in 3p.

I don't think me and HPE will both be put in 3p and mafia will try to kill both of us. If this scenario happens then I have an idea who the scum will be.

[Adorable]

Eliminating in a player who failed their protection because of a strongman looks manipulative.

Do you agree to lim me then rat then peta in that order and protect wgeurts? Y/N

I prefer to elim scum and when you say it like this, it makes me conflicted and worried the flip will be a miss. wgeurts is going to be protected by the mushroom tonight and I'll have to protect someone else.

[Adorable]

I prefer to elim scum and when you say it like this, it makes me conflicted and worried the flip will be a miss. wgeurts is going to be protected by the mushroom tonight and I'll have to protect someone else.

Which one of you wgeurts HPE do you think could possibly be scum?

HPE

[Adorable]

I might be misunderstanding how the mushroom powerup works. At first I thought whoever gets voted for the powerup will be protected from a kill and I didn't read the first sentence clearly. Reading it again I see it says the mushroom is used by giving it to another player and they will be protected for the night.

[Adorable]

I can protect wgeurts.

[Adorable]

I prefer to elim scum and when you say it like this, it makes me conflicted and worried the flip will be a miss. wgeurts is going to be protected by the mushroom tonight and I'll have to protect someone else.

Which one of you wgeurts HPE do you think could possibly be scum?

HPE

Quoting to ping. Do you agree to protect wgeurts and eliminate me then rat then peta, in that order?

yes

[Adorable]

Yesterday Jingle asked if I agree to protect wgeurts and I guess Jingle changed his mind and wants me to protect HPE.

[Adorable]

I'm going to follow Jingle's read on RR. Jingle wanted us to elim RR afterwards and he looked really sure on RR being scum.

VOTE: Radical Rat

[Adorable]

In the case that neither of us is scum, shooting into the PoE is good, because a successful kill ends the game earlier, and everyone else is townreading each other enough to probably believe we made a WIFOM kill over any alternative scenarios.

And if scum has a way of mitigating protection, wgeurts should be dead.

Holstering means scum wants me to be the elimination, as that was the plan in place, and I likely lack the charisma to change that plan, but doesn't want to kill you for some reason.


In your magical scenario though... what we missed would be HPE, probably.

Scum having a way to kill through protection was discussed last day. On day 2 Jingle said for you to protect Fate or me and scum should have been expecting a protect on Fate on N2 and since Fate died it would mean either you are scum who killed Fate, or you are town and Fate was killed by a strongman, or scum was not paying attention to Jingle's action plan on day 2.

[Adorable]

I will have to say I was not happy with HPE's track choice on wgeurts. After seeing cerb flip scum I iso the alive players and I saw an interaction from cerb/wgeurts that looked unpaired. Near the end of day 2 Jingle also did an iso on wgeurts and he put wgeurts as town if cerb flipped scum. This made me tinfoil on a HPE scum on day 3.

[Adorable]

So let's turn the question on you then. If I'm Town, and it's not HPE, I presume your choice would be Adorable, yeah? Why?

i think it's possible, if you held a gun to my head and asked me to give an answer right now i'd say that but it's based purely on a hunch


i don't think the roleclaim is inherently clearing. cakez provides mafia with flavor safeclaims and writes PMs for them. having a bodyguard and a rolestopper in the same setup, to me, is a stretch. an in my brief glances none of the interactions between adorable and cerb fell outside the realm of what i'd consider as scumdistancing

like i said though, i need to reread first

In a world where I am scum, my approach on Cerb that's not how I treat a scum buddy.

[Adorable]

So let's turn the question on you then. If I'm Town, and it's not HPE, I presume your choice would be Adorable, yeah? Why?

i think it's possible, if you held a gun to my head and asked me to give an answer right now i'd say that but it's based purely on a hunch


i don't think the roleclaim is inherently clearing. cakez provides mafia with flavor safeclaims and writes PMs for them. having a bodyguard and a rolestopper in the same setup, to me, is a stretch. an in my brief glances none of the interactions between adorable and cerb fell outside the realm of what i'd consider as scumdistancing

like i said though, i need to reread first

In a world where I am scum, my approach on Cerb that's not how I treat a scum buddy.

okay, humor me. why not?

I prefer to be a team player when I'm scum and try to avoid bussing and distancing. Reason why I try avoid bussing and distancing as scum is because I worry when I do vote a buddy, town will catch onto this and will sheep me. Losing a scum buddy makes it hard in later game to eliminate town and starts to get nervewrecking.

You can see my progression on day 1 I voted Fate for being scummy and since he got voted I sheeped, after seeing Fate post more I came to the conclusion Fate plays for entertainment and these kind of players play scummy no matter what alignment they are and I shelved him as null. Afterwards I decided to vote Cerb because I also had him as a scum read.

For me to be scum I would have left my vote on Fate or changed my vote to Porkens instead of voting Cerb. I went to all this effort on looking through some of your completed scum games last day to see how you treat your scum buddies and your treatment on Cerb did not look like how you play as scum from your completed scum games I skimmed through. For you to think I am scum then you would have to think I am hard town siding which I can't even pull off.

[Adorable]

So let's turn the question on you then. If I'm Town, and it's not HPE, I presume your choice would be Adorable, yeah? Why?

i think it's possible, if you held a gun to my head and asked me to give an answer right now i'd say that but it's based purely on a hunch


i don't think the roleclaim is inherently clearing. cakez provides mafia with flavor safeclaims and writes PMs for them. having a bodyguard and a rolestopper in the same setup, to me, is a stretch. an in my brief glances none of the interactions between adorable and cerb fell outside the realm of what i'd consider as scumdistancing

like i said though, i need to reread first

In a world where I am scum, my approach on Cerb that's not how I treat a scum buddy.

okay, humor me. why not?

I prefer to be a team player when I'm scum and try to avoid bussing and distancing. Reason why I try avoid bussing and distancing as scum is because I worry when I do vote a buddy, town will catch onto this and will sheep me. Losing a scum buddy makes it hard in later game to eliminate town and starts to get nervewrecking.

You can see my progression on day 1 I voted Fate for being scummy and since he got voted I sheeped, after seeing Fate post more I came to the conclusion Fate plays for entertainment and these kind of players play scummy no matter what alignment they are and I shelved him as null. Afterwards I decided to vote Cerb because I also had him as a scum read.

For me to be scum I would have left my vote on Fate or changed my vote to Porkens instead of voting Cerb. I went to all this effort on looking through some of your completed scum games last day to see how you treat your scum buddies and your treatment on Cerb did not look like how you play as scum from your completed scum games I skimmed through. For you to think I am scum then you would have to think I am hard town siding which I can't even pull off.

I realize this was a very long time ago and your approach to playing the game can easily have changed, but you are on the record as saying differently. So I have to ask: when did your stance on distancing change?

This is an old game that is 4 years ago. I used to vote a scum buddy first and reason why is because I felt comfortable voting a buddy and I would get worried whichever town I vote they would omgus me and another player would sheep the town who omgus me. Over the years playing as scum I have been working on voting town instead of voting a buddy. Lately my recent scum games have all been multiball and I have been hunting the other team in the thread. It's been like 2 years since I have last played as scum that is not a multiball game and when I do play as scum that is not a multiball game I struggle on getting some players to town read me.

[Adorable]

This is an old game that is 4 years ago. I used to vote a scum buddy first and reason why is because I felt comfortable voting a buddy and I would get worried whichever town I vote they would omgus me and another player would sheep the town who omgus me. Over the years playing as scum I have been working on voting town instead of voting a buddy. Lately my recent scum games have all been multiball and I have been hunting the other team in the thread. It's been like 2 years since I have last played as scum that is not a multiball game and when I do play as scum that is not a multiball game I struggle on getting some players to town read me.

Could you link me a couple of your more recent games?

My recent games I play as another username and playing on this site I prefer to keep my other username identity hidden.

[Adorable]

If you want I can link you a game of mine from 2 years ago that is not multiball and I have a username I don't mind on revealing.

[Adorable]

https://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/view ... 26&t=27145

Username is Faerie. What's interesting in this game is how I treated a buddy on day 1 I put them in my scum list and he was a counterwagon to a town who claimed at eod and I did not vote my buddy when I was online posting. I purposely kept the votes tied and hoped rng would eliminate town which it did.

There is no iso button and instead you would have to skim through all the pages to find my posts.

[Adorable]

I don't have confident town reads and players I think are town are Jingle and Cerb. Rest of the players are in my poe.

Adorable, can you talk to me about why you thought Cerb was town at the start of Day 2 after you suspected him on Day 1?

Cerb claimed Mario. When I got my role pm I was speculating in team chat what kind of roles there would be and I thought the town pr were Mario, Peach, Luigi and I thought the vt would be Goombas.

[Adorable]

Can you stop ending the day early like that.

[Adorable]

I haven't read where I left off. I only skimmed and saw wgeurts vote.

[Adorable]

I was at least hoping to catch some signs of scum slipping up by dragging out the day just like what happened in the last team mafia I played where I purposely dragged out the day and made the right choice on voting out a scum in the last day.

[Adorable]

Well played HPE

On day 4 I had Peta and wgeurts as town and my poe were RR and HPE. The moment I saw RR flip town I was settled in on HPE being mafia on night 4. Day 4 ended fast for me and I didn't have time to give my legacy reads.