TM 2023 | Super Mario Bros Mafia | Game Over!

[wgeurts]

wgeurts can you comment on cerb's meta especially if he's typically reticent with his reads a la 369? I would normally check but I have limited time at the moment

I do not like his posting but he is correct in that he comes into action later in the game, it has been some years, but if he doesn't step up D2 it's a definite point to criticise. He's a bad day 1 vote, but you may note he's rather low down in my reads. Basically, null, maybe a bit scum leaning, but by far pending further action.

All right, why is he on the lower side then if this is within his townrange?

Cerb knows his self-meta well enough and has openly stated so this game even, if you're reading him for his style you're going to get fooled. You have to read him for how rational, plausible and convincing he is when he does start. Being a methodical town player has it's benefits, but it's harder to spoof as scum as you need to do the same whilst suppressing your subconscious motivations.

[wgeurts]

It isn't that he never gives day 1 thoughts, him not giving any juice leads me to question the slot, but a full verdict will follow not on day 1.

[Adorable]

I read the wallposts that were about Peta and HPE. The stuff they did looked nai to me and I don't know how to read them.

[petapan]

i gotta be honest here wgeurts vs hpe is starting to have a whiff of tvt to it which i know will annoy wgeurts but i think jingle is the one positioning himself around it, i don't really think his townread of princess actually makes sense or has good reasoning behind it, he's just buddying up to the newbie who is townreading him for NAI behavior


265 is in fact a complete dogshit post that as much as it stretches and twists can't actually establish a reason as to why that stuff makes me scum besides "he not have many stances". basically not worth my time but i will address this:

Where is the scum motivation in 'committing to written words' when there's not a lot to go on?

it struck my as a possible instance of trying too hard, too soon - a very basic tell where scum will try to appear solvy when the game doesn't really merit doing so. having reads arranged into a list on page 4 struck me as potentially being a case of that. but also, it was the early game so i was hardly going to commit to a push based solely on that, and at any rate i thought "i'm bored" might have been a plausible excuse

[Adorable]

Like, eliminating Jingle gives so little and loses a lot if wrong.

HPE has interactions regarding Fate, Porkens, myself, and Peta. There's also the wagons which spring up in competition, the people that didn't commit, and the people that went all for it. If, and I genuinely believe that likely, they flip red, this game is really easy sailing. If they flip green, if I'm not immediately mislynched, there's a lot of information to be gained and even if I do go out Day 2 I think we're left with enough associative information to be left in a good position. I am willing to stake myself on this

You suspect HPE is red and if they are red who would be in the poe?

[Adorable]

From my pov I can't really think of anyone who would be HPE scum partner.

[petapan]

I read the wallposts that were about Peta and HPE. The stuff they did looked nai to me and I don't know how to read them.

do you have anyone in the game you do have a read on?

[wgeurts]

From my pov I can't really think of anyone who would be HPE scum partner.

Jingle, Cerb, maybe even Porkens if Porkens is really really unmotivated to play but that's an unlikely stretch.

[petapan]

From my pov I can't really think of anyone who would be HPE scum partner.

you think hpe is unaligned with everyone in the game?

[wgeurts]

i gotta be honest here wgeurts vs hpe is starting to have a whiff of tvt to it which i know will annoy wgeurts but i think jingle is the one positioning himself around it, i don't really think his townread of princess actually makes sense or has good reasoning behind it, he's just buddying up to the newbie who is townreading him for NAI behavior


265 is in fact a complete dogshit post that as much as it stretches and twists can't actually establish a reason as to why that stuff makes me scum besides "he not have many stances". basically not worth my time but i will address this:

Where is the scum motivation in 'committing to written words' when there's not a lot to go on?

it struck my as a possible instance of trying too hard, too soon - a very basic tell where scum will try to appear solvy when the game doesn't really merit doing so. having reads arranged into a list on page 4 struck me as potentially being a case of that. but also, it was the early game so i was hardly going to commit to a push based solely on that, and at any rate i thought "i'm bored" might have been a plausible excuse

Flip HPE then we can talk Jingle, if I survive long enough

[wgeurts]

Like my money is on you and Jingle being both town right now, but if HPE flips red it isn't Jingle imo, and if they flip green I will have to revaluate the entire game

[Adorable]

I read the wallposts that were about Peta and HPE. The stuff they did looked nai to me and I don't know how to read them.

do you have anyone in the game you do have a read on?

Lean town on Jingle and wgeurts.

I want to see Cerb post more because I might be bias on this read but his approach towards me gave me scum vibes. The questions they asked me were not good, he said a post of mine is 55% - 44% scum which I disagree on, when CSF asked Cerb what would their solve of a team be they said Adorable/Jingle and on the same post they said the team is unlikely and I was thinking what was even the point of answering that question when they said the team is unlikely.

[Jingle]

Assertion:

They started the game nothing posting. All their posts appeared useful but gave no insight to what their reads could be, or anything that they later could be held accountable for.

Evidence provided:

Spoiler: Literally disagreeing on an explicitly stated read on page 2 and 3

This isn't too sure it uh... sees how that's scummy?

the expressed reasoning was that it feels like he knows the answer but wants to appear solvey

Ehhh... This one doesn't really get that impression in the first place, but also scum probably weren't told about the power-up beforehand (there really isn't a need to when it gets announced to everyone at the start of the day) and even if they were they'd probably get the same description of it's effect.

It just seems like reading into things a bit too much?

"Nothing burger posts" on pages 1-5.

Uh huh. And to borrow a question from peta:

how much meat would you expect based on when in the game they were posted?

Fucking trash logic.

They only started giving reads under pressure, and have only ever given reads on people who are hot topic.

They only started giving reads under pressure, on page 6. This is technically correct, but it's also the kind of 'Gotcha!' read that has shit for accuracy. You know what's really fucking easy to do? Fake reads.

Their reads do not make coherent sense. Their read on me is based of me misconstruing them: yet they acknowledge my clarifications made me look more town in the past, and have failed to point out where I'm misrepresenting them further and how it is scum motivated. They also claim that it looks like I'm pursuing them as low-hanging fruit, which would imply that they acknowledge their slot looks scummy and like an easy elimination option, which would mean my case makes sense... when their entire case against me is that it doesn't. They just don't like me because I'm pushing them imo.

Their read on you is based on you misconstruing it, which you've literally done, multiple times. Like for example, when you conflated thinking it strange that I don't put any particular faith in my reads throughout the game with not having reads on page 6. When you said that it poking at odd interactions to ask for clarification was nothing of substance. When you just now thought that a post that was very clearly a response to me was it flipping its read on peta, because you didn't understand the way it uses pronouns. When you argued that it reconsidering a read in response to a posted case was inherently scummy because there was no progression when the progression of the person who was being discussed thread dipped and then it reread their entire ISO. And yeah, it's possible to scumread someone for bullshit reasons for suspecting LHF. That's fucking obvious.

Your argument here is that HPE is scum because its wrong on you. And even if it is wrong, wrong isn't scummy. Wrong is wrong. If we limmed everyone who was wrong, town would win literally 0 games, because the people who are never wrong are the scumteam.

They're obsessed with who's voting them and whether or not they can wagons going whilst not being interested in pushing their own named scum-reads: see porkens.

Yes, HPE is the only passive player this game. And also, HPE isn't pushing it's scumreads, when the previous point that you had boiled down to HPE is pushing a scumread on you that's wrong. This is literally contradicting your own case.

They floated porkens as a low-hanging scum read when pushed for any substance, then doubled down with absolute moonlogic dissonant with their scum read on me, conveniently after Jingle floated it as an option. Instead they go after Fate for things Porkens has also done, and also keep me as an option to vote despite having called me "more towny" prior. They abandon Fate as soon as a wagon does finally form as per the earlier stated objective, it doesn't add up.

Conveniently after Jingle's page 4 readlist which predated... Basically everything? Including literally all of its reads? Conveniently, I didn't realize I was town until I got my role PM, that's probably suspicious too. Wot? And your argument here about a lack of consistence isn't really concerning to me as a scumread either. Like... You know who is actually really concerned with the optics of their progression? Scum and manipulative town. I think we can all agree that HPE doesn't seem like a particularly mastermind-y town player.

Their reads are all watered down and easy to correct as per the status quo, people that aren't part of the discourse, don't matter to them.

Its reads, as you present them, are Peta was townish, but on a reread is scummy. Fate is scummy, but poking there isn't actually doing anything. Porkens has done fuck all. You seem to be actively misunderstanding its posts. It hasn't expressed strong reads on CSF, cerbs, RR, Adorable. Do you legitimately expect everyone in the game to have nuanced reads on everyone in the game? Have you attempted to discuss the behaviors of any of those people with HPE? I agree that HPE doesn't have very developed reads, but I also don't see much attempt from anyone to talk about those reads. Fuck, what's your most recent take on Adorable? Why is she town, or has that changed since page 18?

Their 180 on Peta is absolutely filthy, and in the posts leading up to it you can quite evidently see behaviour that can be interpreted as positioning to back off their prior number 1 town read.

Why is it filthy? Like, legitimately. I posted a case on peta, HPE read a case on a stale townread, decided it made sense, claimed to follow up on it by checking the ISO, and then voted. What part of that is implausable?

They constantly use others reads to form their own, with little to no evidence that anything they're coming up with is original and not opportunistically staged.

:twitching eyebrows:

Legitimately, wgeurts, if you're town here look at this objectively. What about this is actually compelling?

[petapan]

I read the wallposts that were about Peta and HPE. The stuff they did looked nai to me and I don't know how to read them.

do you have anyone in the game you do have a read on?

Lean town on Jingle and wgeurts.

I want to see Cerb post more because I might be bias on this read but his approach towards me gave me scum vibes. The questions they asked me were not good, he said a post of mine is 55% - 44% scum which I disagree on, when CSF asked Cerb what would their solve of a team be they said Adorable/Jingle and on the same post they said the team is unlikely and I was thinking what was even the point of answering that question when they said the team is unlikely.

okay thank you for the answer

[petapan]

so here's the deal

Cat Scratch Fever is a townie. This is a meta read, and meta reads tend to be annoying if you don't know the person, but it is what it is. she's much moe low-effort/low investment as scum

wgeurts is town because there's legitimate conviction in their highprincesserinys push, annoyance at porkens doing nothing, even starting to get irritated with me for not doing anything with my vote. they're someone who is very clearly trying to solve the game.

Fate is town because i don't think he fakes derping on the setup like that as scum and cuz i think he believes thstuff he's pushing on

Adorable also probably town for earnestness but i have a weak spot for players who sound earnest. there's a little more uncertainty here because she's been playing a bit reserved but i think her recent posts come across as fairly plausible explanations for her reads

radical rat mostly looks the part of a townie with how they've been going about things, their vote on me is silly but i don't think it's scum-motivated

cerb idfk he hasn't done anything but is kind of yolo town. him accusing hpe of beetlejuicing felt a lil opportunistic maybe but it might be one of those cases where i'd expect a player to try to project towniness a little more as scum. i'm content to give him a pass for today and let him cook i guess

i want to ponder hpe here but my gut is kind of telling me they're town still and jingle's defense of it just looks like it's coming from an informed to my eyes

jingle i just think is kind of scum because his case on me stinks, his perspective has been frozen in amber since page 4, it doesn't feel like he's truly attempting to evaluate or analyze anything people say, he just has a perspective he wants to push which is me/wgeurts being scum, regardless of how much sense it makes

porkens is prolly just scum cuz he's frozen and not playing the game

[Jingle]

From my pov I can't really think of anyone who would be HPE scum partner.

Jingle, Cerb, maybe even Porkens if Porkens is really really unmotivated to play but that's an unlikely stretch.

Like my money is on you and Jingle being both town right now, but if HPE flips red it isn't Jingle imo, and if they flip green I will have to revaluate the entire game

Fucking wot?

HPE is scum for an inconsistent narrative, and also Jingle both is not and is a viable HPE partner. Chef's kiss.

[petapan]

yeah nah jingle is crawling up hpe's butt there because he knows it's flipping town

VOTE: porkens
VOTE: jingle

[petapan]

i think he's successfully pocketed the whole game though so this is gunna be uphill, but idc i'll be fucking annoying about it until one of us is dead

[Jingle]

ftr porkens is trending strongly toward what i would expect of him as scum - being lazy, shitposting, making excuses rather than delivering content

I vaguely remember this just being Porkens. Do you have any evidence that town porkens is different? (legitimate question, not trying to cast shade)

[Adorable]

From my pov I can't really think of anyone who would be HPE scum partner.

you think hpe is unaligned with everyone in the game?

Mos of the players voted HPE except for me, Jingle, Cerb, Porkens, RR.

I know that I'm town and I'm removing myself from the list, I leaned town on Jingle and removed him from the list, HPE suspected Porkens buddying them which didn't look like something a scum team would do, Cerb questions on HPE I wasn't sure if this could be seen as a team or not and I guessed it looked unlikely, I will have to admit I forgot RR.

[petapan]

They're obsessed with who's voting them and whether or not they can wagons going whilst not being interested in pushing their own named scum-reads: see porkens.

Yes, HPE is the only passive player this game. And also, HPE isn't pushing it's scumreads, when the previous point that you had boiled down to HPE is pushing a scumread on you that's wrong. This is literally contradicting your own case.

this bit here is logic pedant shit that scum love to hide behind - all being technically correct but meaningless -

ah ha

, hpe is not the only passive player in the game, your case is null and void. except that's not how mafia works. and it's a bad interpretation anyway that really evades the point wgeurts was trying to make about hpe (that it is allegedly more interested in defending itself and pushing viable wagons rather than trying to convince others of its scumreads)

overly confident defense of hpe that assumes the best possible motives for all of its actions and decides there is absolutely no merit to anything wgeurts says - this is cuz jingle knows hpe is town

[wgeurts]

Who do you vote if Jingle goes green?

[petapan]

ftr porkens is trending strongly toward what i would expect of him as scum - being lazy, shitposting, making excuses rather than delivering content

I vaguely remember this just being Porkens. Do you have any evidence that town porkens is different? (legitimate question, not trying to cast shade)

i literally linked two of them already but again:

open chatgpt: viewtopic.php?t=90462 (again he's gimmicking for 13 posts or so, keep scrolling down and you'll see where he stops using chatgpt to write responses)
weird dreams mafia: viewtopic.php?t=90611 (it's a replace in, but, like, that game had a similarish number of posts to where this one is at now)

like he can be lazy and low effort at times but all available evidence from what i've seen is that as town he is capable of actually trying but as scum he barely cares

[Jingle]

That wall wasn't about "Why is HPE town" it was about "Why was wgeurts' case garbage." So what, exactly, is super compelling and slam dunk about wgeurts' scumcase on HPE that lead to:

i like the wall

Why as town are you even focused on whether or not people are "altogether interested" in a wagon or not anyway?

this bit in particular resonates with me because i think scum often get caught using this type of reasoning about what is/isn't a viable wagon

And it's not like you don't know the motivation behind why I posted that, because both you and wgeurts literally asked why the case wasn't compelling.

[petapan]

Who do you vote if Jingle goes green?

porkens probably still but i'd have to re-eval on people