TM 2023 | Super Mario Bros Mafia | Game Over!

[petapan]

fate's role is so weird lol

[petapan]

In the case that neither of us is scum, shooting into the PoE is good, because a successful kill ends the game earlier, and everyone else is townreading each other enough to probably believe we made a WIFOM kill over any alternative scenarios.

And if scum has a way of mitigating protection, wgeurts should be dead.

Holstering means scum wants me to be the elimination, as that was the plan in place, and I likely lack the charisma to change that plan, but doesn't want to kill you for some reason.


In your magical scenario though... what we missed would be HPE, probably.

really? why lol

[petapan]

In the case that neither of us is scum, shooting into the PoE is good, because a successful kill ends the game earlier, and everyone else is townreading each other enough to probably believe we made a WIFOM kill over any alternative scenarios.

And if scum has a way of mitigating protection, wgeurts should be dead.

Holstering means scum wants me to be the elimination, as that was the plan in place, and I likely lack the charisma to change that plan, but doesn't want to kill you for some reason.


In your magical scenario though... what we missed would be HPE, probably.

well, what would be your reaction if i'd been NKed last night?


or let's look at it from anther angle: what would you have done as scum?

[Radical Rat]

In the case that neither of us is scum, shooting into the PoE is good, because a successful kill ends the game earlier, and everyone else is townreading each other enough to probably believe we made a WIFOM kill over any alternative scenarios.

And if scum has a way of mitigating protection, wgeurts should be dead.

Holstering means scum wants me to be the elimination, as that was the plan in place, and I likely lack the charisma to change that plan, but doesn't want to kill you for some reason.


In your magical scenario though... what we missed would be HPE, probably.

really? why lol

Because it's the only claim that doesn't have any supporting evidence. Adorable we know is at least Loved, and while my role hasn't successfully blocked anyone (unless scum tried to shoot wgeurts last night), the expectation of a block and failure to do so correctly identified Cerb as a roleblocker.

Meanwhile, HPE's claim is... not impossible, but odd. Does Daisy make sense as a UB? I can't really think of anything better, but it certainly doesn't fit as neatly as everyone else's has. And tracking wgeurts is a strange choice that doesn't make much sense to me. But it doesn't really make sense for that to be the lie you make as scum either.

So while at present I don't think that's the case, if I were to receive a divine revelation that you were innocent... HPE's the only answer I've got.

[Radical Rat]

In the case that neither of us is scum, shooting into the PoE is good, because a successful kill ends the game earlier, and everyone else is townreading each other enough to probably believe we made a WIFOM kill over any alternative scenarios.

And if scum has a way of mitigating protection, wgeurts should be dead.

Holstering means scum wants me to be the elimination, as that was the plan in place, and I likely lack the charisma to change that plan, but doesn't want to kill you for some reason.


In your magical scenario though... what we missed would be HPE, probably.

well, what would be your reaction if i'd been NKed last night?


or let's look at it from anther angle: what would you have done as scum?

If you were killed, my vote's locked on HPE today.

If I were scum in this situation, I kill wgeurts, and double down on my redirector theory, with my primary defense being "Why the fuck would I frame myself?" and park on you.

[petapan]

i'm meh on trying to solve by roles and i don't get why HPE makes that claim as scum, in my estimation it's -EV

i also think what jingle said about HPE's play not coming from an informed perspective is more or less correct, this is in addition to cerb treating HPE very opportunistically on day 1

[Radical Rat]

And see, I agree with that too. That's why it being scum is contingent upon you being Town, because at that point... I have to be wrong somewhere.

[petapan]

In the case that neither of us is scum, shooting into the PoE is good, because a successful kill ends the game earlier, and everyone else is townreading each other enough to probably believe we made a WIFOM kill over any alternative scenarios.

And if scum has a way of mitigating protection, wgeurts should be dead.

Holstering means scum wants me to be the elimination, as that was the plan in place, and I likely lack the charisma to change that plan, but doesn't want to kill you for some reason.


In your magical scenario though... what we missed would be HPE, probably.

well, what would be your reaction if i'd been NKed last night?


or let's look at it from anther angle: what would you have done as scum?

If you were killed, my vote's locked on HPE today.

If I were scum in this situation, I kill wgeurts, and double down on my redirector theory, with my primary defense being "Why the fuck would I frame myself?" and park on you.

yeah i'd have expected the latter tbh, it makes sense as a hail mary because you just need to convince people to deviate once and win, holstering here seems -EV for you because even if you convince people to lim me today i dunno what you're doing tomorrow

[Radical Rat]

So let's turn the question on you then. If I'm Town, and it's not HPE, I presume your choice would be Adorable, yeah? Why?

[petapan]

So let's turn the question on you then. If I'm Town, and it's not HPE, I presume your choice would be Adorable, yeah? Why?

i think it's possible, if you held a gun to my head and asked me to give an answer right now i'd say that but it's based purely on a hunch


i don't think the roleclaim is inherently clearing. cakez provides mafia with flavor safeclaims and writes PMs for them. having a bodyguard and a rolestopper in the same setup, to me, is a stretch. an in my brief glances none of the interactions between adorable and cerb fell outside the realm of what i'd consider as scumdistancing

like i said though, i need to reread first

[Adorable]

In the case that neither of us is scum, shooting into the PoE is good, because a successful kill ends the game earlier, and everyone else is townreading each other enough to probably believe we made a WIFOM kill over any alternative scenarios.

And if scum has a way of mitigating protection, wgeurts should be dead.

Holstering means scum wants me to be the elimination, as that was the plan in place, and I likely lack the charisma to change that plan, but doesn't want to kill you for some reason.


In your magical scenario though... what we missed would be HPE, probably.

Scum having a way to kill through protection was discussed last day. On day 2 Jingle said for you to protect Fate or me and scum should have been expecting a protect on Fate on N2 and since Fate died it would mean either you are scum who killed Fate, or you are town and Fate was killed by a strongman, or scum was not paying attention to Jingle's action plan on day 2.

[Radical Rat]

When I say has a way of mitigating protection, I mean present tense.

At this point I think it is plausible that scum had a one shot strongman or other such role that they wasted thinking Fate would be protected, but if they still had a way to do that, there's no reason for them not to kill here is my point.

[petapan]

in general imo in small games scum win by having good positioning around each other - unless they're both strong players who can post well, their best bet for winning the game is to look unaligned. that doesn't mean flat-out throwing a teammate under the bus day 1, ideally they want to survive, but the goal of scum is to look good when their teammate flips. cerb wasn't really playing like he planned to endgame.

i have a p extensive track record as scum, i'm more willing to cut a bad partner loose than most, which is kind of why my play around cerb is just antithetical to how i've played as scum, because it looks surface-level bad and buys me nothing. if i'm scum with cerb and he's posting like he was day 1 i make it a point to call him scummy, and if he gets wagoned we have a claim to help him get out of it

that's not a self defense post (though i'd appreciate it if folks itg reflected on it!), it's more a statement on

what i am looking for

in finding cerb's partner

people don't always fit this mental model sometimes someone plays differently because their approach to the game is different but in general it's a reliable framework, you need to assess whose play makes sense from an informed mindset

[Adorable]

I will have to say I was not happy with HPE's track choice on wgeurts. After seeing cerb flip scum I iso the alive players and I saw an interaction from cerb/wgeurts that looked unpaired. Near the end of day 2 Jingle also did an iso on wgeurts and he put wgeurts as town if cerb flipped scum. This made me tinfoil on a HPE scum on day 3.

[petapan]

When I say has a way of mitigating protection, I mean present tense.

At this point I think it is plausible that scum had a one shot strongman or other such role that they wasted thinking Fate would be protected, but if they still had a way to do that, there's no reason for them not to kill here is my point.

also not implausible but at the same time a strongman feels ~weird~ with the powerups given it could seemingly potentially nullify them which would be...i don't want to say bad design but it'd be a little bit of a slap in the face to have this public vote that scum can completely work around

although i guess the roleblocker could do that as well but then the question is how much power do scum need

[Adorable]

So let's turn the question on you then. If I'm Town, and it's not HPE, I presume your choice would be Adorable, yeah? Why?

i think it's possible, if you held a gun to my head and asked me to give an answer right now i'd say that but it's based purely on a hunch


i don't think the roleclaim is inherently clearing. cakez provides mafia with flavor safeclaims and writes PMs for them. having a bodyguard and a rolestopper in the same setup, to me, is a stretch. an in my brief glances none of the interactions between adorable and cerb fell outside the realm of what i'd consider as scumdistancing

like i said though, i need to reread first

In a world where I am scum, my approach on Cerb that's not how I treat a scum buddy.

[Radical Rat]

When I say has a way of mitigating protection, I mean present tense.

At this point I think it is plausible that scum had a one shot strongman or other such role that they wasted thinking Fate would be protected, but if they still had a way to do that, there's no reason for them not to kill here is my point.

also not implausible but at the same time a strongman feels ~weird~ with the powerups given it could seemingly potentially nullify them which would be...i don't want to say bad design but it'd be a little bit of a slap in the face to have this public vote that scum can completely work around

although i guess the roleblocker could do that as well but then the question is how much power do scum need

That's why I was thinking redirector yesterday. Fits with the presumption of ghost flavor, and I can protect against that, as can the Tanuki, but it can be circumvented if scum is able to quickly identify the relevant PRs.

It's still a weird amount of power, but there is a level of integration with the setup, while strongman just... ignores everything. If there was a strongman, no way it wasn't one-shot at least.

[HighPrincessErinys]

VOTE: Radical Rat as the plan dictated. Going to catch up on these last couple pages now.

[petapan]

So let's turn the question on you then. If I'm Town, and it's not HPE, I presume your choice would be Adorable, yeah? Why?

i think it's possible, if you held a gun to my head and asked me to give an answer right now i'd say that but it's based purely on a hunch


i don't think the roleclaim is inherently clearing. cakez provides mafia with flavor safeclaims and writes PMs for them. having a bodyguard and a rolestopper in the same setup, to me, is a stretch. an in my brief glances none of the interactions between adorable and cerb fell outside the realm of what i'd consider as scumdistancing

like i said though, i need to reread first

In a world where I am scum, my approach on Cerb that's not how I treat a scum buddy.

okay, humor me. why not?

[Radical Rat]

Well, best of luck to everyone tomorrow.

HPE, obviously track peta tonight, Adorable protect wgeurts.

[Adorable]

So let's turn the question on you then. If I'm Town, and it's not HPE, I presume your choice would be Adorable, yeah? Why?

i think it's possible, if you held a gun to my head and asked me to give an answer right now i'd say that but it's based purely on a hunch


i don't think the roleclaim is inherently clearing. cakez provides mafia with flavor safeclaims and writes PMs for them. having a bodyguard and a rolestopper in the same setup, to me, is a stretch. an in my brief glances none of the interactions between adorable and cerb fell outside the realm of what i'd consider as scumdistancing

like i said though, i need to reread first

In a world where I am scum, my approach on Cerb that's not how I treat a scum buddy.

okay, humor me. why not?

I prefer to be a team player when I'm scum and try to avoid bussing and distancing. Reason why I try avoid bussing and distancing as scum is because I worry when I do vote a buddy, town will catch onto this and will sheep me. Losing a scum buddy makes it hard in later game to eliminate town and starts to get nervewrecking.

You can see my progression on day 1 I voted Fate for being scummy and since he got voted I sheeped, after seeing Fate post more I came to the conclusion Fate plays for entertainment and these kind of players play scummy no matter what alignment they are and I shelved him as null. Afterwards I decided to vote Cerb because I also had him as a scum read.

For me to be scum I would have left my vote on Fate or changed my vote to Porkens instead of voting Cerb. I went to all this effort on looking through some of your completed scum games last day to see how you treat your scum buddies and your treatment on Cerb did not look like how you play as scum from your completed scum games I skimmed through. For you to think I am scum then you would have to think I am hard town siding which I can't even pull off.

[petapan]

Well, I was hoping not to have to claim this, but... it'll probably just detail the whole day if I don't, so.

I targeted no one last night. I only have two shots, and thought it would be prudent to save one for later, since I expected to be the kill target.

I figured Adorable would be protecting me, in which case she dies even if I protect her, and scum should have been expecting me to protect Fate so wouldn't "waste" a kill there. And then I'd be able to ACTUALLY protect Fate tonight

mrrgle

[petapan]

So let's turn the question on you then. If I'm Town, and it's not HPE, I presume your choice would be Adorable, yeah? Why?

i think it's possible, if you held a gun to my head and asked me to give an answer right now i'd say that but it's based purely on a hunch


i don't think the roleclaim is inherently clearing. cakez provides mafia with flavor safeclaims and writes PMs for them. having a bodyguard and a rolestopper in the same setup, to me, is a stretch. an in my brief glances none of the interactions between adorable and cerb fell outside the realm of what i'd consider as scumdistancing

like i said though, i need to reread first

In a world where I am scum, my approach on Cerb that's not how I treat a scum buddy.

okay, humor me. why not?

I prefer to be a team player when I'm scum and try to avoid bussing and distancing. Reason why I try avoid bussing and distancing as scum is because I worry when I do vote a buddy, town will catch onto this and will sheep me. Losing a scum buddy makes it hard in later game to eliminate town and starts to get nervewrecking.

You can see my progression on day 1 I voted Fate for being scummy and since he got voted I sheeped, after seeing Fate post more I came to the conclusion Fate plays for entertainment and these kind of players play scummy no matter what alignment they are and I shelved him as null. Afterwards I decided to vote Cerb because I also had him as a scum read.

For me to be scum I would have left my vote on Fate or changed my vote to Porkens instead of voting Cerb. I went to all this effort on looking through some of your completed scum games last day to see how you treat your scum buddies and your treatment on Cerb did not look like how you play as scum from your completed scum games I skimmed through. For you to think I am scum then you would have to think I am hard town siding which I can't even pull off.

okay

thank you for the answer

[HighPrincessErinys]

Well, best of luck to everyone tomorrow.

HPE, obviously track peta tonight, Adorable protect wgeurts.

Wouldn't it be better to protect me and ensure the track goes through? This one knows you kinda suspect me but that seems like the better option, mechanics wise.

[HighPrincessErinys]

I will have to say I was not happy with HPE's track choice on wgeurts. After seeing cerb flip scum I iso the alive players and I saw an interaction from cerb/wgeurts that looked unpaired. Near the end of day 2 Jingle also did an iso on wgeurts and he put wgeurts as town if cerb flipped scum. This made me tinfoil on a HPE scum on day 3.

This one had been harboring continued suspicions of a scum!wgeurts ever since the initial push which it felt was bogus, but it supposes it might've picked peta instead if it looked at the wgeurts/cerb ISO first.