Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[furtiveglance]

So the main reason I felt the need to play around Gimli's actions is because I was concerned your read on me might never budge. If you were planning on voting for me at 3p, and Gimli is scum, Gimli could just... wait for you to vote me for the win. So I wanted to arrange a scenario where that could be avoided.

Does that make sense?

I get this, but if Gimli votes for me at 4, what does that prove? To me he could just be wrong town.

[furtiveglance]

Fire, are you thinking Gimli is scum?

[furtiveglance]

Fire doesn't think it's Klick...or Gimli...

Who does that leave?!?!?

[furtiveglance]

Certainly is BALS-y

[furtiveglance]

What if I start to go all Lamist at final 4

I don't want to throw oh no

What if I'm too confbiased on my reads

[furtiveglance]

I'm thinking it's Klick at the moment

[furtiveglance]

That was a lifetime ago but I thought I'd stopped a kill

[furtiveglance]

if you thought the info was that meaningful why did you wait until then

I wasn't sure whether or not to claim

[furtiveglance]

I'm Collector

[furtiveglance]

Maybe fireisredsir is some kind of Condemner with how much he's reaching to try and push me

[furtiveglance]

Fire, I think you're confusing nuance for waffle

[furtiveglance]

ok but why waffle when he could just hold the course and win

Because he couldn't

[furtiveglance]

Fire, I think you need to stop townreading Klick

[furtiveglance]

I plan on discussing you!scum vs furtive!scum with fire and deciding the best course of action from there

This is such an obvious pocket, and doesn't line up at all with Klick's vote on Gimli, which was a very desperate OMGUS.

WAKE UP FIRE

[furtiveglance]

Open your eyes

[furtiveglance]

i ask because i want you to explain your thought process but also because it isn't clear at all from your posting where that change in mindset came from

During that time, if I had to have voted I would have gone Klick.

[furtiveglance]

that doesn't really tell me anything but okay

do you feel that you have to vote today

If you voted Klick I'd probably hammer within the day, although right now that seems unlikely

[furtiveglance]

I'm not sure. Maybe Gimli's confidence makes me think I'm right?

[furtiveglance]

Klick is moving like Schrodinger's cat

How long til deadline? I'll probably vote Klick unless Gimli has concerns about fire

[furtiveglance]

Klick, why shouldn't I vote for you?

[furtiveglance]

Well

I'll see what Klick says

[furtiveglance]

Yk what, if we lose we lose

VOTE: Klick

[furtiveglance]

Ok

You can either tie or hammer then

[furtiveglance]

Gimli, why do you TR me?

Fire, I might want you to tie this.

[furtiveglance]

Gimli I'm not in my town meta tho

[furtiveglance]

Gimli, why do you TR me?

Fire, I might want you to tie this.

Belay that, I want you to hammer

[furtiveglance]

Wouldn't it be epic if this game went to Day 10

[furtiveglance]

All scum hood, all scum hood

[furtiveglance]

Whether or not Gimli was scum

[furtiveglance]

Pretty sure this is town Gimli

[furtiveglance]

I was just worried

But Klick 2 scummy

I don't think Gimli would randomly pull up the kill choices which incriminate Klick in that way as scum, it looked 2 natural

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler: When it Klicked for Gimli

I think its klick with a traitor role

MT can u go over everything that happened in hood with u and rest of dead townies?
I feel like there could be something there.

Absolutely.

Grimme Troupe (Black + Peta)

Black knew he was going to die. He said well-played to me if scum, but also said I should have been replaced so im a little confused what exactly he was saying about me.

Peta said that smart cash money $$$ is on Klick, he thinks.

Black questioned whether Klick was trying to find scum -- pointing out for instance that Klick votes for wagons even if he thinks they're town (Alisae for instance). He concluded off with saying that he thinks it's either FB or Klick, but expressed dissatisfaction with himself

I agreed with Black regarding the Alisae point (I thought E was obvtown immediately after the cakez flip, so much so i healed em) but I dont think he could tell what i was saying lol.

Petapan says that he's been turned off to the game for a while (mood) but thinks from gameplay and role perspective, klick made the most sense

Black said that he didn't understand why scum isn't killing Firebringer.

-----

My lingering questions:

The Firefluffer problem

Why isn't scum killing Firebringer? I understand that he hides behind people and clears them somehow -- so... why no kill that. The obvious answer to that would be "He's hiding".

i can hide behind someone to prevent my death. if they die that night i die.
alternatively if i hide behind someone who is performing a kill, i will die instead of their target.

Ah. That's a supremely good role, isn't it? Now that you've claimed that last bit and turned it into an investigative

But in order to do that, you have to announce your targets. So why hasn't scum shot one of those targets and killed Fire? Black's last thoughts and my own at this point.

Even if the target is nullish/scummy, it's more than worth it to shoot Firewoofer too. From what i can tell after he claimed, he said he'd hide behind either FireR or redFF.

Fire's role isn't gated like everyone else's. And it's so good. Get rid of him. Why aren't they?

It was a 50/50 shot, so scum couldn't kill him for sure, they had to guess between FireR/redFF (he didnt indicate which he was picking). So that could be why. Would be disastrous to miss that. That's probably why Fire's alive as town.

,,,,,,,,

Petapan's final remaining suspicion

Petapan said that role-wise and gameplay-wise Klick made the most sense to him. He didn't elaborate much on that but it is interesting to me he would say tgameplay and role -- what is Klicks role

Scum already know my role and I'm gonna get hero shot by furtive tonight so I'll jump the queue

Each night I can choose to write an anonymous message for the mod to post at day start
N1 I deliberately chose not to do this because I had nothing to say - I was hoping Cakez would be an investigative and I could out his results anonymously
N2 I just fell asleep before writing a message (evidence: it's 3:45am right now)

Bruh

So it's a reporter and functionally not very helpful. What were the other scum?

Cakez - nonconsecutive commuter
TSQ - 4-shot flavour/role cop
ActionDan - 3-shot combined roleblocker/rolestopper

Yeah i could see it. Klick could also have other power not claimed. Sure.

But what about gameplay-wise?

Spoiler: Klick on Cakez

TOWN
furtiveglance
Morning Tweet
Black
SirCakez
Alisae

LEANING TOWN
Firebringer
VP Baltar
Gimli

NULL
Mistyx
Asri Teroka
Aristeia
redFF
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
Lycanfire
Cat Scratch Fever

SCUM

TOWN
Morning Tweet
Black
Asri Teroka
Alisae
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
furtiveglance
SirCakez
redFF
VP Baltar
Cat Scratch Fever

NULL
Gimli
Mistyx
Aristeia
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
Lycanfire

SCUM

I'd really like him to explain why he's townreading Cakez though.

I've had thoughts on this since last night but I went to sleep instead of responding.

Basically, I think my Cakez townread was poor. Early in Cakez's posting I thought his forwardness and willingness to bring a lot of opinions to the table was towny. I think this was biased somewhat by comparing him to Lycanfire in my head and thinking, 'well Cakez is being pretty free with his reads and Lycan isn't doing anything so if there's a scum between them it's more likely to be Lycan.' Which isn't a well-thought-out point.
In my last reads list I brought Cakez down a bit because I kinda realised this but still wanted to give credit to my initial gut ping.

I think ultimately I townread what you are scumreading. I ISO'd Cakez late last night and felt pretty similarly to you, that what he was doing could pretty easily be scum projecting false confidence. I don't feel strongly about it but with you saying it's his scum meta I kinda want to sheep you on it.

VOTE: SirCakez

TOWN
Morning Tweet
Black
Asri Teroka
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
Cat Scratch Fever
Aristeia
furtiveglance
Alisae
VP Baltar

NULL
redFF
Gimli
Mistyx
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
{Lycanfire, SirCakez}

SCUM

Considered thoughts are closer to here
The whole list is ordered
At this point petapan being leaning scum is kind of a meme but I like it anyway

I'm going to make a reads list completely from scratch based on my very removed impressions of everyone right now

TOWN
Aristeia
Black
furtiveglance
Asri Teroka
Thestatusquo
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
fireisredsir
Cat Scratch Fever
SirCakez
Morning Tweet

NULL
Alisae
petapan
redFF

LEANING SCUM
Gimli
Mistyx
ActionDan

Klick has Cakez town early, reconsiders at the behest of Ari questioning the TR, has him in scum for a while, then he shifts back to being a townread but i dont see a discernible reason why anywhere

Cakez stays as town for Klick a long while (i wont bother quoting the many posts where Cakez is around the 4th or 5th most highest TR for Klick) all the way up until the guilty. Klick tried to get Cakez to claim his role privately to him, which he did, and Klick believed it and defended cakez (until he got guiltied a little later)

Klick also has TSQ as high town during D1 before any deaths (2150, 2207) -- but as soon as TSQ gets guiltied, Klick says:

oh also i have another guilty - tsq visited csf

Makes me feel good about where my reads list was up to last night

Spoiler: reads

100% TOWN
petapan
Aristeia
furtiveglance

OBVIOUS TOWN
Alisae
Cat Scratch Fever
Black

VERY LIKELY TOWN
Asri Teroka
Gimli
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
redFF
Mistyx
fireisredsir

POE SCUMMY
Morning Tweet
Thestatusquo

Klick apparently TSQ as town but then started suspecting him the night before the morning of the guilty happened. Which is a little convenient, Klick's might be trying to get away with keeping Cakez and TSQ as high as possible until they can't anymore. Maybe because ActionDan got limmed so early in part thanks to Klick

I mean, I'm grasping a little bit here because my own interactiojns with TSQ and Cakez are YIKES because i recall townreading them both (Cakez primarily). But still seems very noteworthy.

Especially considering there is NOTHING role-wise that clears klick, and it *seeeems* to me based on about an hour skim that Klick didn't cause the thread to go in TSQ or Cakez directions, only ActionDans

I see what peta was trying to get at when he said role-wise and gameplay-wise he couldnt rule out Klick. So far I'm with him.

Firebringer - See: firefluffer problem
Aristeia - guiltied multiple scum
fireisredsir - INNOed by Firebringer
Gimli - Obviously suggested killing himself and me but also he just kinda seems towny. Also the giving guns ability, didn't need to give it to Ari and suggest shooting him with it,
furtiveglance - I actually forgot about furtive. Sorry. He's a Lazy Jailkeeper. I see he shot Misty. I skimmed and couldn't find the precise reason why it's not him. I assume it's night action based
Klick -
Morning Tweet - not in a PT with living players

My role for anyone that cares

I'm Hornet. I think it's like a tsundere type deal where i attack but also, i

protect

. I dig it.

I think it's Klick, but barring that, it's technically possible for it to be Gimli. And everyone is taking furtive as town for granted, I assume he did a jailkeep that was pivotal and i just cant bother to find it RN. I believe Firewoof/Aristeia/fireisred can safely be ignored.

peta and black were solving it as being just klick and then peta died and ari shot black

those conversations never had the relevant impact ITT, that's why klick is still here

VOTE: klick

I thought a lot about this game and this is where I'm at and sorry if I'm wrong

I think this stuff is town

[furtiveglance]

It could be fake

I just don't think it is

I think Klick's reactive vote and then him saying he thought it was Gimli all along looked sus

[furtiveglance]

Why is not a decent plan for scum!Klick to pocket fire and then kill me if we no lim?

[furtiveglance]

It could be fake

I just don't think it is

I think Klick's reactive vote and then him saying he thought it was Gimli all along looked sus

Okay, it 'looked sus'
Why does Klick!scum contrive this elaborate 'I thought it was Gimli all along!' stuff coming into today

to try to persuade you? I'm not dumb, I'm aware that you wouldn't find that towny
I said it because it was true

To justify your desperate omgus after the fact

[furtiveglance]

sorry klick i don't see it

i don't think it's gimli

Do you have more concrete thoughts on 6374?

If you're in a place where you flat-out can't see yourself coming to the conclusion that Gimli is the correct vote, I'll put a vote down on furtive to clear-check him
I keep coming back to Gimli as my answer but I won't say I'm definitely right

My man is desperate to vote anyone but him

[furtiveglance]

Fire I explained enough

The questions you asked me were a little too socratic...it's like cmon we're going over the same ground again and again

[furtiveglance]

Fire, do you not see that I've thought it was Klick for a while

When we voted MT, Klick was my preference

Same when we voted Firebringer, initially at least

[furtiveglance]

Fire I explained enough

The questions you asked me were a little too socratic...it's like cmon we're going over the same ground again and again

you barely explained anything lol

It's like...

Fire: why klick
Me: klick sus
Fire: why does sus = mafia?

[furtiveglance]

Ok that post above is probably up there for worst of all time

[furtiveglance]

that literally isn't true though

you were so unsure that you said it was a toss up for you and that "klick was just a guess and a feeling" and insisted on a no elim

I didn't contradict myself:

I thought it was Klick at 7 and 6

I was unsure at 4

[furtiveglance]

Right, it did, but for most of the time it was on Klick

Fire, if you vote me here, Klick will join. He said as much. And that makes zero sense if he thinks it's Gimli like he said he did! It's very clearly desperation. I know it's hard to see when you're the one getting pocketed but you are.

[furtiveglance]

elo is hard for scum. it's hard to maintain solving, it's hard to keep your thought processes consistent and show progression and explain yourself without ever slipping up in your mindset. it's hard to realtime with people and talk to them and make sure your reactions are what they will think looks town

you and klick have both dove headfirst into doing all of that

because you're trying to solve the game and it's genuine

furtive hasn't

I get what you're saying here and understand it

My main conflict I'd that I wouldn't expect different from furtive here if furtive were town
I wouldn't expect that kind of solving, furtive hasn't shown evidence to me previously of solving at that level

Embarrassing attempt at a discredit, Gimli's right it's strategic.

[furtiveglance]

Klick: *says anything*
Gimli AND furtive: 'What a terrible and blatant attempt at manipulation, could you make this any more obvious?'

That's what it looks like to me, you're saying I never play well as town

[furtiveglance]

Klick: *says anything*
Gimli AND furtive: 'What a terrible and blatant attempt at manipulation, could you make this any more obvious?'

That's what it looks like to me, you're saying I never play well as town

I don't have a high opinion of your town play.

I'm sorry but that is a truthful statement of hoe I view your current town play.

That's fine, but it's also convenient as I'm pushing you in this game.

[furtiveglance]

argh I feel awful

why

[furtiveglance]

not loving myself pushing klick like this

afraid of being wrong and him flipping town and all sorts of regrets

I know that won't be the case. If Klick is town then you'll be celebrating and saying lol furtive get marinated and stuff

[furtiveglance]

Yeah fire we've both made up our minds I think.

Like I said, you can hammer or tie

[furtiveglance]

Fire if you keep up this trajectory we're gonna lose

[furtiveglance]

D:

[furtiveglance]

I played really badly. Sorry that was annoying for everyone.