Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[Klick]

The Venn diagram of town behaviour and scum behaviour is a very big circle with a smaller circle inside it

[Gimli]

Town have a massive range of potential actions, it's scum who are far more limited in how they behave

no its the opposite

scum controls NAs

scum knows what narratives to push and when and how if they're worth their salt

[Gimli]

you'd make a daystart message as scum just to let small hints that you thought we were going to 3p but we were actually not cause you know what happens in the night and you use your message to play around it

there that's how unlimited scope scum has

[Gimli]

3p is 3 players not third party

[Klick]

Town have a massive range of potential actions, it's scum who are far more limited in how they behave

no its the opposite

scum controls NAs

scum knows what narratives to push and when and how if they're worth their salt

These things... limit scum behaviour

[furtiveglance]

Gimli, why do you TR me?

Fire, I might want you to tie this.

Belay that, I want you to hammer

[Klick]

you'd make a daystart message as scum just to let small hints that you thought we were going to 3p but we were actually not cause you know what happens in the night and you use your message to play around it

there that's how unlimited scope scum has

That's the difference between 'scum can technically do this' and 'scum actually choose to do this in practice'

[Klick]

I feel like I still don't have a satisfying explanation for why you believe I was trying to 'pocket furtive' when everything about the gamestate suggests that would be a really stupid thing to attempt as scum AND my actions don't align with that in any way other than believing you were scum and furtive was town

[Gimli]

we're talking in circles now

[Gimli]

you still defend yourself from a position of WIFOM of 'me scum wouldn't do that' immediately after doing it

[Gimli]

you'd do whatever fits your very creative brain thank you

[furtiveglance]

Wouldn't it be epic if this game went to Day 10

[Gimli]

this game has been great but its time to decide and move on

[Klick]

you still defend yourself from a position of WIFOM of 'me scum wouldn't do that' immediately after doing it

Literally everything is WIFOM if you think hard but not too hard

The key piece of information you are not considering when you call this WIFOM is

Assuming I am scum and furtive is town

I am aware enough of how furtive plays to know that that kind of WIFOM would ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT ACTUALLY BE EFFECTIVE.

It's great that you can wave this away with 'lol WIFOM' but putting it in the context of this game, if I were scum here, one of the people I'd need to convince if I were trying to 'pocket furtive' is... furtive.

WHICH WOULD HAVE VERY LOW ODDS OF ACTUALLY HAPPENING IF FURTIVE WERE TOWN.

When, instead, I could just play to a Klick/Gimli/fire ELo, which has actually realistic odds for a Klick!scum victory.

[Gimli]

now you can't cause fire is cleared

[Klick]

How about the last two game days?

[Klick]

Hell, if I were scum here I could still choose to just kill furtive anyway. It'd probably be the better play.

[Gimli]

I take offense on how easy you think it is to 1v1 me, even if we'd go up against fire

[Gimli]

you probably don't, but alas

[Klick]

I take offense on how easy you think it is to 1v1 me, even if we'd go up against fire

Not easy, but compared to convincing furtive of anything? If I were scum I'd certainly choose a 1v1 with you over 3p with you and furtive in this position

[Gimli]

nah you're too slippery

everyone can paint a picture of whatever would be better than their position if they were scum, that doesn't mean anything. if you're scum you chose this path, I'll give you one reason for it: it'd be very fucking awkward to try no elimming here again

[Gimli]

and also notice fireisred: when I asked klick if he would argue for no elim again, he didn't say no, he avoided answering directly, so I think he was still having that idea floating around

[furtiveglance]

All scum hood, all scum hood

[Klick]

I think Gimli!scum is far more likely to outright refuse to consider this perspective than Gimli!town because Gimli!scum only needs to get to ELo with myself and furtive.

I'd like your opinion on the above reasoning fire

[Gimli]

let me put this in a way you understand: if I'm scum then it makes so much more sense for me to push for no elim again and then kill fireisred and then take you to f3 with furtive. which is what you're using to defend yourself from accusations of being scum, that you'd push no elim and kill furtive. do you see how your defense is hot air?