Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[fireisredsir]

i think if that is what scum klick is doing then he would probably know that is more likely to lose the one person townreading him than it is to do anything to convince furtive. i don't think furtive has shown any signs of caring about what klick posts or even thinking critically about anything posted in like the last month

in elo you don't need everyone to vote a specific town player. you just need one person who will never vote for you and you cannot lose

i think scum klick's goal would be to do whatever he can to make me not vote him. which, if he is scum, he is doing pretty successfully tbh but it doesn't feel like he's trying to

[Gimli]

you don't win by having one person not vote you, you just don't lose. klick needs to advance his wincon further than having you on his side. what do you think he'd do instead as scum? just coast on that townread?

[fireisredsir]

no but i think he would opt for a cleaner path through the last two days than the one he has taken

i think that pivoting and nuance and considering other options and being transparent with your thought process are all things that

1) are harder to fake convincingly as scum
2) are more likely to be places where people reset their impressions of you and change their read
3) are things that i think klick has done a lot of here

when he really didn't need to at all. if he had just never backed off me, the game is much easier for him. if he doesn't call furtive clear and instead just goes in on him, the game is much easier for him

his play just doesn't look like scum accomplishing scum goals to me. it looks like town trying to solve

and for the most part so does yours

[furtiveglance]

Fire, I think you're confusing nuance for waffle

[fireisredsir]

ok but why waffle when he could just hold the course and win

[furtiveglance]

ok but why waffle when he could just hold the course and win

Because he couldn't

[Gimli]

yea I don't think he could

[fireisredsir]

you don't think that yesterday there could have been a lim on either me or furtive?

p sure everyone wanted me dead at the start of day

[Gimli]

I started the gameday thinking it was you but you became increasingly transparently townie when you started to solve it past looking at traitor signals and whatnot, and I think klick would have a real hard time maintaining pressure on your slot. but when I started the gameday pushing you he was very comfortable with sussing your slot, the problem being that furtive wasn't really having it. then, when I moved to furtive, and I explained all of the ideas you're now explaining as possible for furtive being scum, klick was also pretty much fine with it and voted him, but I think there was also thread momentum missing and he used that opportunity to try and reach furtive's SR on him by protecting him.

I think today is an extension of these movements he made last gameday and make sense as scum.

[fireisredsir]

idk ill reread the previous day i guess

[Klick]

you don't win by having one person not vote you, you just don't lose. klick needs to advance his wincon further than having you on his side. what do you think he'd do instead as scum? just coast on that townread?

k i l l f u r t i v e

If it weren't possible last night then just after an easy no lim negotiation today

If I'm scum why the hell do I care about beating my head against a wall convincing furtive of anything

You're arguing that it would be necessary for me to convince furtive I'm town

If I'm scum I don't have to convince furtive of shit

[Gimli]

okay

do you plan on arguing for no elim today?

[Klick]

I plan on discussing you!scum vs furtive!scum with fire and deciding the best course of action from there

[Datisi]

VOTE COUNT 9.02

WITH 4 VOTES IN PLAY, IT TAKES 3 TO MAKE A DECISION. DAY 9 ENDS IN (expired on 2023-03-24 22:15:00).

execution

KLICK [1]:

Gimli

GIMLI [1]:

Klick

NOT VOTING [2]:

fireisredsir, furtiveglance

mod notes

All vote counters have been borked by the newest update, so please let me know if there are mistakes in the VC.
This is a mod note.

[furtiveglance]

Fire, I think you need to stop townreading Klick

[fireisredsir]

i would prefer not to

[furtiveglance]

I plan on discussing you!scum vs furtive!scum with fire and deciding the best course of action from there

This is such an obvious pocket, and doesn't line up at all with Klick's vote on Gimli, which was a very desperate OMGUS.

WAKE UP FIRE

[fireisredsir]

there's been a lot of individual klick posts that I've read as scummy all game but i still have trouble seeing the whole of it i guess

[furtiveglance]

Open your eyes

[fireisredsir]

you are always welcomed and encouraged to try casing

[fireisredsir]

I don't know who it is anymore

I don't know

There's reasons that it isn't all of you

With Gimli, even if let's say he's Mafia Compulsive Disloyal Nail Vendor, you would surely just vend to the nightkill every time. I guess it's possible that you can't vend to the kill.

With Klick, 3 scum hood and the way he played it is a bit difficult to make sense.

With Fire, he seemingly got cleared by the other Fire, and his role claim would be a bit risky as scum I guess.

Great thanks guys. I think if I randomly guessed we'd probably lose and I don't think there's 2 scum left so I'd like to sleep

I've been the decider in a couple of losing games recently and I don't really want to again

No lim is just better odds, that's how I see it

Who do you think is the mafia?

Not sure
If I didn't have any role claims I'd guess fire
Klick for the all scum hood
You for the role which could make sense as a disclaimer type role if it's scum

I don't have much to say

Klick is just a guess and a feeling

I was avoiding the thread because I was busy

like how did you get from "i don't know" and "i don't want to be the decider" to being apparently sure that it's klick to the point of no longer seeming to care about being the decider

sell me on that

what convinced you

[fireisredsir]

i ask because i want you to explain your thought process but also because it isn't clear at all from your posting where that change in mindset came from

[fireisredsir]

gimli you've kinda had the narrative that klick has been following your pushes around

but im rereading and klick was the first one to back off of me and say i was town

you argued a bit at first and then followed after that

ik you'll prob just say that means it was a pocket attempt and it worked. which. okay, sure, whatever

but it is at least a much more proactive and decisive approach

and i don't think the weight of my towniness was insurmountable or anything. i think deciding im town there puts scum in a worse spot. for klick scum i think it's harder to argue that you're still within scumrange than me. and he had already just said he had furtive pretty much off the table

furtive said i was mistaking waffling for nuance but i don't think that this was waffling at all. this was making an active choice to follow a more difficult path imo

and yea i guess it's possible klick scum decided that was the way to go but idk

[Klick]

I'm not going to have a lot of time over the next couple of days

When I am able to be around I want to discuss the details of whether Gimli is town or scum and why. I think Gimli is the slot where we are going to get a more conclusive answer to his alignment through deeper analysis, and that's what I'd rather discuss than furtive tbh.

[Klick]

Frankly just using this game day as a lens, I think I'd very much expect this continued tunneling from furtive!town, whereas Gimli's insistent scumread on me today is actually hard for me to rationalise without me assuming that Gimli is scum. The push today just makes a lot of sense if Gimli is scum and doesn't make a lot of sense if Gimli is town.