Mini 670-Kirby Mafia OVER!

[Vi]

Holy cats, this game actually started o.o

Vote: wolframnhart

for having never played Kirby before. If you're a gamer and like platformers, you really should.

[Vi]

vote:Natirasha

. Cuz he's scum.

This is an insightful post.

As is this one
I sense this game is going to soak up sarcasm like a sponge.

Also @Microphone_Kirby: Did you forget to random vote? And are you at Mike level 1, 2, or 3?

Just never have, no other reason then that =/

Look into it sometime. *more blatant advertisement condensed between these two asterisks*

[Vi]

Oh i figured it out!!!

unvote, vote Vi

!! His name has the first two letters of...

vi

llian! Hes scum i knew it! :p

No, I just act like it on occasion.

Seriously, though, why the second vote?

[Vi]

Also @Microphone_Kirby: And are you at Mike level 1, 2, or 3?

And Level 1, thank you very much.

I prefer the desk mike personally, but that's just me.

@Natirasha: I'm not concerned about getting lynched, but trying to start some kind of discussion. I've always hated getting out of the random vote stage.

[Vi]

Yes, Mike is an ability in a few Kirby games. Three uses, increasingly powerful - the first is a megaphone, the second is a desk mike, the third is a rock-concert standing mike. [/geek]

You answered my discussion question though by saying that your second vote on me was basically random goofing off, and there's nowhere to go with that. So what the heck, five players still haven't posted and there's not much to go on right now; why not start a spamfest in the meantime.

Unvote: wolframnhart
Vote: Verbal

for having a name that comes earlier in the alphabet than mine. Everyone except wolframnhart, I've got my eye on you!

[Vi]

Nevertheless, I don't know if I should really trust anyone with

Kristoph Gavin

as their avatar...

You're the first person in four games to recognize K. Gavin. (seriously, best character in AJ)
But I choose my avatars based on whoever comes to mind first when it's time to change them. I'm thinking my next one should be Reisen Inaba or Queen Zeal.

Also, you need more Mirror ability.

Because I like watching people squirm. Feel the heat!

I'm going to remember you said this.

[Vi]

I have no mouth.
I have no claws.
I'm apparently only two sprites.

[Vi]

I have no mouth.
I have no claws.
I'm apparently only two sprites.

is this something from the game that is going over my head?

Actually, it's not.

[Vi]

That, and/or it helps prevent people from getting a good meta-read on him. When playing with the big names around here, I'm assuming that being unpredictable goes a long way.

Self-voting or other obvious theater also usually provides a flashpoint for ending the random voting stage, which is something I'm all for and thus why I don't really care about being called out as scum right now if it gets people moving

I'm intuitively suspicious of Ku_F for voting Natirasha knowing fully well it would be a "safe" random vote, and then laying an FoS on me for an admittedly poor attempt at a humorous take-two random vote.

...Ah, why not, it's early enough.

Unvote: Verbal
Vote: Ku_F

[Vi]

...Actually, looking back the wording of her opening post isn't what I remembered it was.

Vote Natirasha for voting himself in other games

I thought I remembered it as "Vote Natirasha because he's going to vote himself", which is something much different.

So I'm tripping over myself and falling on my face, basically. I blame insomnia and hope that this sort of error doesn't become something I'm known for here <.<

[Vi]

Speaking as one of the implied scum, I can express general incredulity, but not for the reason you're expecting.

Why do you suspect that there is another scum group - or that Natirasha has any privileged information in the first place - based on a claim that is at best an obvious lie and at worst WIFOM of the Year? Besides, even if the word 'a' was intentionally placed there and he IS telling the truth (which I can vouch he's not), it's up in the air as to whether the mafia he is referencing is the only one. It's technically possible the way he worded it

I think you're off-target and getting colder by the post on this one.

[Vi]

I agree with the sentiment that Natirasha needs to exist more. I'm fine with uneasy practical jokes and looking scummy in the random voting stage, but now that we're coming out of it we're going to need more substance from everyone.

Vote Natirasha for now. Since Nat had linked the two of them together, and Vi came to the defense of Nat from DTF's vote, there might be actual defense of a scum partner.

Read a little more closely. I said that DtF's Amazing Find was from an implausible source, to understate things. I believe that Natirasha's "reveal" is ludicrous given that it outs himself as scum, D1, without provocation, to a Town hard-pressed to find and lynch scum (and according to DtF, also to a second Mafia family who would love to gun down this first Mafia in the middle of the night). Yet you accepted this "implausible source" as 100% accurate as you voted him and implicated me.

and Vi his assumed partner does still have his vote on Ku_F, even though I pointed out that the reason he had voted in the first place was flawed...

I haven't unvoted Ku_F simply because I haven't felt like it and the vote is of no consequence where it's at. "Not feeling like it" is also why I'm not going to vote you for jumping onto the Natirasha bandwagon when it has already been brought up that the "reveal" is dubious at best. But rest assured you now have my attention.

[Vi]

...While what Natirasha is saying IS true... I joined under a different name so I couldn't be traced here. So much for that <_<
Anyway, that along with his wiki page is why I wasn't immensely surprised at what he was doing. Plus as I said before I hate getting out of the random voting stage.

Anyway. Natirasha has a point in that wolframnhart's vote is a

non sequitur

. I've already given my own reasons for wanting to vote him previously, so this just pushes him over.

Unvote: Ku_F
Vote: wolframnhart

In general, guessing at the set-up instead of using content is a scum move,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you been guessing at the set-up ever since Post 57? Seriously, you've been on that obvious joke claim almost religiously. I even explained how unlikely it was that the claim was remotely truthful. (Posts 58 and 66)

----------

The

unofficial

"36 hours after the mod claims the top of the page" Vote Count:

Natirasha (3):

Ku_F

,

Natirasha

, Verbal,

Save The Dragons

, DraketheFake, wolframnhart

wolframnhart (3):

Save The Dragons, Natirasha, Vi

Save The Dragons (1):

Ozymandius

Ku_F (0):

Vi

Verbal (0):

DraketheFake

Vi (0):

Capricious

Not Voting: Microphone_Kirby, Jebus, DragonsofSummer, Ku_F, Capricious

12 alive, 7 to lynch. Italics are unvotes.

[Vi]

Oh no you're not.

Regardless, that's not the issue here.

[Vi]

Honestly, did you not bother to read rule 14 AT ALL?

Of course I did; that's why I posted the vote count. It bothered me quite a bit that you posted that vote counts may not come at the top of the page

at the top of the page

. You had not posted a vote count all game, and the time that it took you TO post a vote count even after mixing up Rule 14 came to about two and a half days. Looking at your post history, you were here and rather active throughout those two and a half days, so I wouldn't buy absentia as an excuse.

So no, I'd rather not be called out for trying to help the game along. But thanks for your concern.

Can we have an official vote count where I'm voting for no one as opposed to someone in regular text and some one in italics?

(Note to self: use small text for unvotes next time.)

--------------------

I'd like to see something other than joking around happen as well. I'm not even sure what to say

wolframnhart - jumping onto a bandwagon, or no?

[Vi]

Fear? Lack of time? Lack of content or nothing to say?

I'd say, for the most part, it's fear; fear of saying the wrong thing and getting killed for it.

No one wants their game to end so fast...

I disagree. There are two newbish assumptions here.

1) The Town will necessarily kill people for flimsy reasons (i.e. "saying the wrong thing"), especially D1.
2) One's death is necessarily bad for their win condition.

It's because these are not true that Mafia does not have to be completely drenched in paranoia, with people scared into silence.

tl;dr version

---

Lack of time doesn't seem to be a problem with this group so much. I would probably side with lack of content being the reason for the general silence.

[Vi]

SAT

H

: Micro Kirby

That one stands for smack across the

f

ace.

...

I'm really not liking these theory wars. Being theoretically wrong doesn't necessarily equate to being scum. Wolf 114 is closer to what we need right now :\

[Vi]

Thought: How about we run up a bandwagon on a lurker to like L-2 or something. Pressure. In particular, Micro-Kirby seems like a good start, I think.

Hypocrisy for the loss?
I would think that you have been lurking considerably more.

[Vi]

This game is incredibly silly.

That's one word for it.

From where I'm sitting, Jebus is doing an aggressively negative amount of scum-hunting. This is basically how I'd summarize his posts:

We should pressure M_Kirby to L-2 or something for stuff he said earlier*. I said he was lurking once, but I take it back. Thus, I'm clearly creating controversy and moving the game forward, so check the box for being pro-town instead of lurking. Yay?

*What this "stuff he said earlier" is has yet to be determined and is probably someone else's job to figure out.

I don't buy that

nothing

was worth taking a position on up until attention focused on Jebus - there was controversy enough for most of the players, and frankly it was a whole lot more interesting than what's going on now (which seems like a lot of people trying to pull Jebus's teeth trying to get a stream of thought out). I don't want to unvote wolfie just yet, but voting Jebus is looking more and more like an excellent alternative.

[Vi]

Whats QFT again? Quotes friggen true or something?

Quoted for truth, but you got the right idea.

[Vi]

that doesn't seem like a good reason to pressure vote someone Jebus

unvote, FoS Jebus

Why not a vote?

[Vi]

I don't think anything has warrented a true vote just yet, depending on further posts it might upgrade to a vote, we shall see.

Would you say you voted Natirasha for less?

[Vi]

I'd like a vote count as I want to know who has voted Jebus and how many votes Jebus has.

The vote count is twelve posts above yours, on this page

(I'm SO bored to be hanging around my largely inactive games right now...)

[Vi]

Jebus is too obvious right now. Scum don't hand themselves over to the town.

If I find time, I'm going to reread.

What say you to this?

[Vi]

Jebus is soooooo backpedaling. I really want to vote that way, but there's something stopping me, see next statement~

@Ku_F: I'm voting wolframnhart because of the rather terrible logic he endorsed in joining the Natirasha wagon, and I'm more suspicious of him because he's not pursuing the more blatant Jebus wagon. I'm waiting on wolframnhart to answer me now actually.

@STD: What are you playing at? "vote now moar later" posts are no good, especially when you fix "(I hope...)" on the end. If you're trying to make yourself the next target to get discussion going, I think that trend is sorta overdone now.

[Vi]

I don't think anything has warrented a true vote just yet, depending on further posts it might upgrade to a vote, we shall see.

Would you say you voted Natirasha for less?

[Vi]

Vi said that he was suspicious of wolf for his vote on Natirasha earlier, and that his suspicions were heightened when wolf didn't jump on the Jebus wagon, as if it were somehow scummy not to bandwagon somebody. It's particularly bad logic because if wolf had voted for Jebus, it could have strengthened Vi's case that wolf was a bandwagoner. To me, it seems like Vi is the one seeking to have his cake and eat it too, by attacking a player for not doing something he would have also attacked him for doing.

Don't confuse me with Natirasha (please). I voted wolframnhart for the reasons he joined the Natirasha bandwagon, not for being fourth on. I think there are more solid reasons to vote Jebus than there were to vote Natirasha. Had wolf voted Jebus, it would have made both votes seem more legitimate.

Of course, this mess would be easier to sort out if wolframnhart was, y'know, present to speak for himself.

[Vi]

You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with me there Vi

You were scum in that other game so yeah.

So let's see. You voted Natirasha because
*of some "strange posts"
*I was too lazy to change a vote in what amounted to the rv stage
*I "defended" Natirasha against DtF (later rebutted)
I like how these reasons have more to do with ME than him, which was Natirasha's point.

Whereas Jebus has
*some "strange posts"
*ordered a bandwagon on a "lurking" non-lurker (quoted for truth)
*backpedaled to the extreme (see 177)
Yet you say nothing warrants a "true vote yet", and you make a really short post during the first half of the Jebus focus saying "that's lame unvote FoS Jebus".

Also, is it just me, or are you only posting content when I prod you?

And where is your pal Nat? Why doesn't he speak up if you are so worried about players?

He says he's AFK in his sig. Beyond that, what is a cross between an elephant and a rhino called?
More interestingly, why are you linking me and Natirasha together like we're the same entity? I'm not sure if this is a taunt or an accusation, but it's not improving your standing with me.

[Vi]

And don't confuse VoVvy with me. Even if his reasoning is good.

<.< Aaanyway--

If you maintain your original position, wolf, then all I can do is note it for the future and move on.

------------

That there's two kinds of "bandwagoning" and that mine was the good kind.

:huh:
The "new, specific reasons" for the "good kind" of "bandwagoning" Natirasha, if you're talking about the word 'a' in N's post, are not terribly impressive... and if it's something else, I missed it.

Hmm... could this comparison and argument imply that Jebus and wolfman are Scum-buddies?

There seem to be a few players who could be linked together at this point, but it's also so early in the game that I wouldn't go very far with thinking about that. Besides, there are too many people you could link this way for them all to be scum, of course... so I wouldn't worry about these sorts of lines of thought until someone flips Mafia.

Also, is it just me, or are you

[wolframnhart]

only posting content when I prod you?

'Any thoughts about the other players? (No, I'm not talking to myself)

[Vi]

This goes double for you. If the case against Jebus is so compelling, then why are you singling out one other player who isn't voting that way? Better: why aren't you voting for Jebus? Using a case against one player as reason to attack another player is some backward, scummy logic.

Jebus is soooooo backpedaling. I really want to vote that way, but there's something stopping me, see next statement~

@Ku_F: I'm voting wolframnhart because of the rather terrible logic he endorsed in joining the Natirasha wagon, and I'm more suspicious of him because he's not pursuing the more blatant Jebus wagon. I'm waiting on wolframnhart to answer me now actually.

I've believe I've already answered the question - I was already voting for wolframnhart from the Natirasha wagon

for the reasons he joined the wagon

when Jebus showed up. Therefore, I was/am rather interested in wolfie's reaction to the next wagon, since if he joined the more blatant Jebus wagon he would be acting consistently, which would alleviate some suspicion.

I love the line about "backward, scummy logic" though. gj for melodrama

[Vi]

I think it is more likely that people who are suspicious of Jebus for this one little thing are scum for trying to nitpick this thing and milk it for all it's worth.

That's one long and protracted "little thing" sustained by several Jebus-posts.

I'm interested in STD's pending post as well.

[Vi]

I'm interested in STD's pending post as well.

Why? You're already voting wolf, and from all appearances you're convinced he's scum moreso than Jebus.

I still think STD is letting Jebus off easily. Seeing his argument against wolfie should be enlightening as to how his scumdar works.

[Vi]

Right, but you're letting Jebus off easily by not voting for him!

Am I? I don't believe Jebus is the person most worthy of further inquiry and/or a vote. I'm not denying that Jebus is scummy, but I'm also not saying Jebus is scummi

est

in my view.

Voting wolf first makes NO SENSE because you think that Jebus has played suspiciously and

you're trying to establish a link between him and Jebus

by saying that wolf not voting for Jebus makes wolf suspicious.

I really didn't think I would have this much trouble claiming to be an independent entity walking into this game. Not only am I

not

Natirasha, I am also

not

Microphone_Kirby, the proponent of finding scumpairs. I even said that trying to pursue pairs wouldn't be a good idea in 207.

Now, look back and tell me why I ever became interested in wolfo in the first place. It's not just because he didn't jump on a wagon.

[Vi]

If you all want to beat me with a stick, I'm totally cool with that.

*gets the blindfolds, a baseball bat, and some rope*

It has kinda been three weeks, so the deadline IS as promised in the rules... This game has gone very slowly.

While I understand that changing one's mind is not a Bad Thing in and of itself, it seems like you've moved to waffling on wolfie. What made you decide to unvote and put him into the Iunno category?

I agree that DoS did a flip between his second-to-last post ("Jebus is scummy scum scum") and this most recent one ("Vote wolframnhart for little content"). However, one note about this is that over a week passed between these posts, so I'm not sure if this is wholly unnatural... although it could be improved on either way. I'd like for DragonsofSummer to explain his thought processes in a few more words.

[Vi]

@Capricious: Why Ku_F?

[Vi]

DraketheFake, while I abide by a maxim of "Classy, Not Trashy" in general, I've a nagging temptation to plainly tell you to Shut Up. Call this post a Chainsaw Defense if you like; I'm just really fed up with this mess.

Yes, you're so clever.

And I don't like your reads either.

2. Replaced in and immediately made a point of mentioning how townie he was. Attempted to disguise as a joke.

Um, he didn't "mention how townie he was"; that would be a poor attempt to twist his words. He called himself Pro-Town, which is by itself a null-tell and doesn't lean toward becoming a scumtell until the person in question says it repeatedly, especially to justify previous actions. And even then, Personal Experience

means nothing

says it's not a definite scumtell.

Oh, and you never mention exactly what it is you hate about his reads, aside from how he calls me Town as of right now (see next) and says he should look at you if wolframnhart flips scum (see later).

Then I guess he probably shouldn't have said that he was? Read it again. He goes so far as to say that if wolf had voted Jebus, it would have "legitimized" both votes in his mind.

What you have said is technically correct, but against the spirit of what I was getting at. Read it again.

Vi wasn't suspicious of Wolf for not bandwagoning. He was suspicious of Wolf for bandwagoning Nat, but not Jebus.

Reading comprehension > selective quoting
I should also reiterate that I initially voted wolfo based on

why

he bandwagoned Natirasha.

Because everybody who wants wolf is doing it for crappy reasons and they're all using the fact that Jebus is so scummy as one of the reasons that wolf is suspicious.

Not true in Natirasha's case, or at least the last time I checked it wasn't. But that's nitpicking.
As far as "crappy reasons" go, I can't fault you for having an opposite opinion but I also don't really expect truly bad logic to linger as long as this wolf wagon has. *shrug*
See also the last sentence of the previous point.

With two days to go, though, I'm hoping I can swing a new player who picqued my suspicion.

Unvote, Vote: Kmd4390

Paraphrased: "Yeah, I just called this guy out! Wagon plz, saving Vi for later"

1. Made a lot of dependent cases on everybody he finds to be scum (if X is scum, then I'll look at Y). Also used meta to cozy up to Save The Dragons, one of the more active players who has thus far escaped suspicion.

Um, I see one, maybe two cases like that, and the certain one involves you, of course. As far as STD goes, Kmd actually says that he's more wary than normal of him, not that he's comfy with him.

I dislike throwing my vote around, so as horrible as this previous post was, for now I'm going to hold out that you're a well-meaning Townie off in left field... until you try something like this again, at which point I'll shelf wolfie and pursue you.

-------------

I see where you discredit Nat's scum claim because he implied that you are scum too. Do you still think Nat could be scum?

Who knows. Natirasha is

always

anti-Town, and prides himself for it. But as of now, I don't see an especial reason to believe that he's pro-Scum, if that makes any sense.

-------------

@wolframnhart: Where did your username come from? (specifically that 'n' that keeps tripping me up)

[Vi]

The guy tried to point out, offhand, that he was a townie. There's no good reason to do that. If you're gonna claim, claim (see: Natirasha). If you're going to pussyfoot around the issue and disguise your "townieness" as a joke, then I'll go ahead and call you (Kmd in this case, not you Vi) out on a distracting play at the very least and a scummy one some of the time.

You're calling him on a distracting play, making it more of a distraction. I think we both agree it's a null-tell. Let's drop it.

The spirit of what you were getting at when you said that wolf voting for Jebus would have "legitimized" both of those votes?

Very well... I'll say it again.
wolf voted Natirasha based on holey reasoning that I pointed out shortly before he voted, and didn't unvote afterward. The Jebus wagon came along, and it had more merit to it. Yet wolf said there was nothing worth voting Jebus for. So why did he try to wagon Natirasha, but not Jebus when there was a stronger case there? Had he voted Jebus, I would have been more inclined to let the scummy Natirasha vote go as an early-game mistake by someone trying to scumhunt. He didn't, so I'm wondering just what's fueling his vote.

You can't have it both ways, Vi: either you're mainly suspicious of wolf for his initial reasons for voting for Nat (in which case a vote for Jebus shouldn't have done shit), or you're mainly suspicious of wolf for not voting for Jebus, in which case your logic is leaky and your suspicion is weak sauce.

I'd hate to turn this into a meme, but Concept of Two Strikes > False Dilemma.
In other words, one suspicion segues into another, creating a cohesive whole.

And then proclaims him "town."

Because he didn't have anything on him, which worried him from a meta-standpoint. Should Kmd have dubbed STD scum based solely on a meta from a previous game?

P.S. Your pre-use of the term "chainsaw defense" doesn't make you look less guilty of it.

I said you could call it that if you like, so it doesn't really matter to me as of now. But stating my motive in the context of countering lame-ish arguments that may be used against me later is a bad habit of mine.

[Vi]

Frankly, why

shouldn't

I be afraid to speak my mind?

Are you sure you didn't mean "Why

should

I be afraid"? Accidentally misrepresenting your own position to turn people against you comes to mind.

That was the most honest I've

ever

been, alignment be damned.

Like this. This can be construed as saying "I should be lying as scum, but that was where I was telling the most truth!" There's really no reason for that last part to be tacked onto the end... unless you're not telling the truth as a Townie in the first place.

Moving along with this, I disagree with your credo to a point. In the general sense, not answering questions @you is not good, and neither is just ignoring some accusations so people will think there's no rebuttal. But if it makes no difference whether you answer them or not, drop it.

Summed up: Watch what you say.

-------------

And talking of watching what people say. Apologies to DtF for yesterday. I was out of line (obviously).

[Vi]

Would you like to be replaced?

----

@Extending the deadline: 'Doesn't matter to me, although I somehow doubt we would do much with the extra time tbh.

[Vi]

More day = more discussion. More discussion = more time to form an opinion/get evidence for making a (hopefully) more accurate lynch.

And the three weeks prior to this have been... what?

I agree more with StD's reason for extending the deadline though. No Lynch (which is basically where we're at right now even with half the lynch requirement) isn't an attractive alternative. Thus, I'll shift to

pro-deadline

.

@Jebus: Why me and Natirasha, and not Microphone_Kirby? Or wolframnhart? Or Kmd?

[Vi]

@Jebus

Curious, for all the talk that had been done earlier about wanting to lynch a non active player, whom you choose out at the time to be Mic_K, you never voted. Where you waiting to see if that wagon would start before you placed your vote? Because looking at the people not voting (which is you and Ozy because Ku_F is indeed voting on Nat) you haven't voted at all. Any reason to that?

Jebus should answer this.

[Vi]

All right, this is ridiculous.

Ozymandius. Contribute, or get replaced. It's okay if you're having trouble IRL; nothing wrong with that - but we need a lot more than what you're putting out right now.

Jebus. You are not scumhunting, and have made only minimal efforts to do anything in this game while keeping a visible profile. Enough.

Unvote: wolframnhart
Vote: Jebus

This fourth vote should let Jebus qualify as a deadline lynchee.

Everyone. The deadline is tomorrow, less than 24 hours from now IIRC. Now would be a good time to not grind to a halt.

[Vi]

Interesting point, DtF. I didn't realize the irony of wolframnhart's vote on DragonsofSummer when I switched to Jebus. That said, I'm not terribly interested in accusations of flipping my vote to whoever works and I'd be fine with a Jebus lynch anyway. I'll think about where my vote should be for a few hours, and come back.

[Vi]

...heck with it, no I'm not. I didn't bring this case so far, but to abandon it.

Unvote: Jebus

Vote: wolframnhart

[Vi]

Wolframnhart seems more scummy to me than Jebus's one thing.

I still insist it's not just "one thing", and I'm not pleased with giving Jebus a free ride... but the alternative for today's lynch is better IMO.

@DtF: What is your avatar?

[Vi]

Apparently, we have some nice and helpful scum in this game.

Here they saw him smashed into his bed like a pancake.

I see a traceable kill method, for what it's worth.

@Ku_F: I'm guessing you're claiming an information role?

[Vi]

So Natirasha, want to share what you've talked about during the night?

This looks like you have some kind of dirt on Natirasha. There are few ways you could get the sort of information that would lead you to make an accusation like this; the only one I can think of is an information role.

Or are you just trying to provoke Natirasha with unfounded accusations?

[Vi]

When we had our night during this game, I went to Nat's house in RL and stalked him everyday to see what he posted.

Um... what?
So you're claiming you went onto Natirasha's account and looked at all of his private messages every day for the last three. I doubt this one (and if it were true, you'd need a modkill to be sure).

Natirasha. Confirm or deny this claim.

Yeah, the Stalker is a real role in Mafia... and you mostly described what a Stalker does.

I do what you bolded in Kuffy's post regardless of my role to ensure that people are lurking and not V/LA :\

[Vi]

Of course not. Like I said, I went to his house in Real Life and watched him every day. Every time that he was at mafia.net, I read with him to see what he said to his mason partner and what his mason partner said to him. Be glad, that I was so nice to do some research regarding his role

Oh, then don't keep us in suspense. I know how the PMs work here. If you could read his messages, you could surely read who they were sent to. Who is Natirasha's mason partner, KuFfy? (Is there something you'd rather be called? )

[Vi]

You're, uh.

You're serious.

I'm normally calm and too kind for my own good, but I will follow lines of suspicion to their ends. Brace yourself if you try to stop me.

------------------

Now I have two things which can catch him when he lies: the name of his partner and the things they discussed.

Oh, no no no. I believe you've already been caught.

When Natirasha claimed Kirby the Mason on Day 1, he was telling the truth. I am Gooey, his mason partner. If you need any corroborating evidence, I suggest you read the first half of D1 with your eyes open this time. (Although it is true that we knew each other from another site.)

And this is the part where you die, Ku_F. You get to fill in the last part of the puzzle - what did we talk about last night? I'm calling manure on your entire story, suggesting that you are instead a Mafia Role Cop.

Vote: Ku_F

as an incentive of sorts.

[Vi]

May I ask you how I should know what you talked about?
As you could see in my posts day 2, I was most of the time joking. Especially with the posts about the mason partners and what they discussed.
Look back and you'll see that I know what you discussed as I went to Nat's house and stalked him. How could I do something like that? Were you really buying that I know what you discussed?
I was already suspecting that you two were the masons if Nat was telling the truth.

Of course I didn't buy that you knew... which was the point in me asking; to see what you would respond with. I'm not fond of dismissing the whole thing as a joke, obv... although I suppose that could have been the case.

Whatever, confirmed Townies yay.

[Vi]

Masons aren't confirmed townies!

True in the general sense.
That said, do you have a reason to suspect me or my claim?

[Vi]

On that note, in your mason PMs, does it say whether or not the other player is confirmed town?

Reading the PM again, it actually doesn't say that Natirasha is confirmed Town; just confirmed Kirby. :v

Lameness ensues.

[Vi]

So one of you could still be scum, even as a mason.

Correct. As I said, lameness ensues.
However, I would be somewhat disappointed if that were the case, considering the flavor implies that Dedede (canon antagonist) killed Ozymandius, and I was specifically told Natirasha was Kirby (titular protagonist)...

[Vi]

But why didn't you tell who your partner is yesterday?

Why not direct that question toward me, since I was the one who revealed myself?
And the answer is - I did not needlessly want to be an NK magnet, something Natirasha will probably never have any trouble with.
As far as why Natirasha didn't do it yesterday, I doubt you were intended to believe that claim in the first place (remember who we're talking about here).

And like I asked already, want to tell us what you did discuss?

'Want to tell us why you care? I'm disappointed; you must not have gotten a good view of his monitor.

[Vi]

When you have information, it's better for the town to know what it is as they are now withholding information. And that is as far as I know anti-town.

We're Masons, not Setup Insiders. I know our roles. Everything else is basically speculation. I've been as up-front as I can be about who's suspected; nothing is being withheld.

Also Vi, do you know that kind Dedede actually helped Kirby a few times?

Yes... against his will and pride, but yes.

But you didn't want to be an NK magnet. Then why did you claim today?

Why don't you think that one through, since (intentionally or otherwise) you caused it?
(Hint: My Mafia career is a long string of "not my proudest moment"s.)

[Vi]

@Ozymandius: ...um, aren't you dead?

----

Natirasha and Vi knew each other from a previous game, they seem quite comfortable with each other, which is a little unnerving to me.

Another site, not another game - that's where the title "VoVvy" came from. I'm indeed "used to him" and his general manner of existence. I'm not sure how this would "unnerve" you, though.

If you

really

want to meta, I can link you to the site in question...

Question! If you suspect that your D1 play corroborates that you two are masons, and going with the fact that Natirasha...uh...claimed mason D1, what grounds do you have of suspecting her to be a Mafia Role Cop?

How would Ku_F know that Natirasha indeed was a Mason, and not fakeclaiming? (Irrelevant, see bottom.)

This statement is very bad.

As I've said earlier, that was a slip of the tongue that has since been proven false. Repeatedly. Saying it again does nothing.

Problem! I think I mentioned this already, but 3 person mafia could explain this, as well as, if you really wanted to stretch, hammer Kirby. Clearing your mason partner (or more importantly, suggesting that you two are clear) from this is not good.

Again, this point has been made already and I accept it. I did not consider that Natirasha could be scum until the possibility was pointed out.

I would argue that it was not against his will or pride (Kirby 64 and pretty much any other game where Dark Matter is the antagonist).

Dedede joined Kirby against his pride in Kirby 64; there's a cut-scene that makes this clear. The only other time Dedede was on Kirby's side was Kirby's Adventure/Nightmare in Dream Land, wherein Dedede was trying to beat Kirby in the face anyway to keep him from unleashing Cloaked Nightmare.

This has nothing to do with the game though.

Ku_F's statements, although a little weird, were clearly a joke, so I'm not sure how you, M_K, and Jebus by proxy (or by QFT) can say "I can't buy that you were joking." What exactly do you mean by this, and what exactly do you expect Ku_F to gain out of being silly like this by being scum (I'm not saying that it's a town action, but I see it a neutral one).

Do I

really

have to come out and say what I've been stepping around for a while now?

I did not see it as a joke at the time, and went right along with it as if it were gospel.

I feel stupid now. Laugh. Do it now if you haven't already. Laugh.

[Vi]

Before I forget...

Unvote: Ku_F

in light of the last part of my previous post.

[Vi]

Vi, what do you think of Mic refusing to accept joking as an answer to Ku_F's comments? What about Jebus agreeing with Mic about it?

'Tough to call, as I'm certainly not going to say that it was an obvious joke. <_<;
I'm more interested in seeing where they go with their Ku_F suspicions at this point.

[Vi]

Apparently, we have some nice and helpful scum in this game.

This also bothered me a bit. I forgot to mention it.

Ozy was non-Town at best D1. There's any number of reasons why he could have been the NK, but I was surprised at the choice of someone who contributed so little.

'Anything else?

[Vi]

Oh hey, I didn't know you visited THAT site, M_K... Move over a bit; you're blocking the view somewhat.

[Vi]

Rule 14?

---

If I start to really suspect you of being scum, Vi, (or if I get bored closer to the deadline) I may respond to what you said,

There's not much to respond to, considering I'm not arguing some of your points. However, it IS closer to the deadline, and I'm bored; not sure about you. Go ahead if you think it will be productive.

Also,

I would argue that it was not against his will or pride (Kirby 64 and pretty much any other game where Dark Matter is the antagonist).

See KDL2 and KDL3, wherein Dedede was possessed by Dark Matter (two-in-one deal!) and was basically useless afterward.

Other than that, it would be nice to get off the Masons subject and onto the wagon from yesterday, since I think we'll make more overall progress there (certainly more than we're making now).

----

wolframnhart wagon:
*Save The Dragons - Started the wagon for general bandwagoning.
*Vi - Didn't jump on the wagon immediately, but came back to it later (see below).
*Natirasha - Jumped on for specific bandwagoning.
*Mic_K - FoS on wolf for "bad logic".
*Vi - Votes wr&h for not changing his vote following the initial objection.
*Save The Dragons - Unvotes, saying "there's no candidate he likes best yet" - presumably out of all the suddenly suspicious people.
*Jebus - Says nothing has happened.
*DragonsOfSummer - Says nothing particularly scummy has happened.
*(stuff)
*Vi - Queries wolfo for not voting Jebus, you know this part.
*DraketheFake - Votes Vi for the above. Chastised by STD for it soon after.
*Mic_K - Implies Jebus+wolf. Isn't voting for wolf. I don't see a vote count handy so I don't recall if he's voting Jebus.
*Natirasha - Stays on wolf wagon for OMGUS.
*DraketheFake - Continues generally hating Vi's logic.
*STD - "Would prefer wolf to Jebus". Unvotes.
*Mic_K - Would prefer Jebus to wolf, but believes they're linked.
*STD - Votes wolf on deadline (sorta).
*DoS - Votes wolf and agrees with everyone.
*STD - Unvotes wolf on a second thought at deadline (sorta).
*DoS - Unvotes and votes Jebus.
*kmd - Replaces in; votes wolf for Vi's line of thinking. General fighting with DtF follows.
*wolf - Votes DoS until deadline.
*(stuff)
*Natirasha - Votes Ozymandius for being a tree stump.
*Vi - Gives up on the wolframnhart idea and votes Jebus.
*DtF - Votes wolframnhart for Vi's idea (that Vi just abandoned, ironically).
*Vi - Revotes wolframnhart based on DtF's post.
*STD - Votes wolframnhart at deadline (for real).

---------------

Some things I noticed while reading:

Screw it. Suspect me if you must, but I've got nothing in this game.

Explain?

DraketheFake - Considering DtF went from hating me to really hating me to liking me to buying my Mason claim wholesale, I'm interested in seeing you pursue someone today.

Ku_F - You're not one of the people to gripe about for being on the inactive wagon, but who are you suspicious of?

DragonsofSummer - Actually, I'd take just about any input from you.

Capricious - Holy wow, I didn't realize how inactive you were. The only people you've been interested in are me and Ku_F, although you voted Jebus to ensure a lynch. Thus, more input would be interesting, since you're not generally "in the crowd".

Jebus - Existing would be cool. Just for satiating my curiosity, a reason why you're not here so much would be cool too, because you're not at all inactive on mafiascum.

Natirasha - ...I have absolutely no idea how to proceed at this point against you.

Verbal - Should have been replaced half a month ago, particularly after it was brought up D1.

Microphone_Kirby - I can't think of anything at the moment, although I remember having something to say to you--

[Vi]

Vi, just because I explained your reasoning AFTER I voted, doesn't mean I USED you reasoning to vote Wolf. It was Wolf or Jebus and I picked Wolf.

Oh, and....um....Verbal WAS replaced. Hi

... *high-velocity facepalm*
This is what I get for reading the topic post.

Well, since your pick was lynched Town, where would you like to go from here, Kmd?

[Vi]

My point is you guys are very close, and it seems to me like you're not checking each other, but that could be due to your role, so meh.

For a while, I haven't checked him. 'No reason to, or so I thought.

I'm asking this for a reason (so if it seems obvious, then yeah, it probably is), but, how did you deal with Natirasha before this point?

I haven't; I've basically let him do whatever since in my mind he was cleared.

I'm curious about the jump to Mafia Role Cop. Granted, it was very hard to tell that Natirasha was actually claiming, but I think yesterday Ku_F asked who Natirasha's partner was, so it's not unreasonable to assume she believed then.

M. Role Cop was the only way I could think of to justify 1) believing Natirasha's claim in the first place and 2) outing confirmed Masons. Until I reread, I didn't remember anyone paying Natirasha's Kirby+Mason claim D1 any mind other than "good grief how anti-Town can one player get". Shortly put, I was being reactionary - with a first post of the day like that, I wouldn't say it's justified but I hope it's somewhat understandable.

[Vi]

Save The Dragons, what's your motive for pressing Kmd on his vote?

[Vi]

...any particular reason I shouldn't?

It's only one vote, and one that Mic_K could most likely shrug off himself.

So, Vi, are you suspicious of me yet?

I have been for a while now. With that said, I don't think I have enough information to substantiate any accusation worth making. (And no, I'm not banking on OMGUS )
So let me ask this. What is your opinion of Jebus, as of right now? Separately, who are you most suspicious of?

To be fair, I do agree with your response to DtF in 404. As long as you give me a fair shake, it'll go both ways.

----

Where is everyone?

[Vi]

So let me ask this.

What is your opinion of Jebus, as of right now?

Separately, who are you most suspicious of?

*tosses Cutter at STD*

Again, I'm not trying to defend newbieness as a townie tell, but the problem is every newer player that gets lynched in a game for a multitude of scummy behavior keeps turning up town.

I'm sure I can find a counterexample of a scummy newbie that should have been lynched. I dislike this generalization very much.

If Jebus were not a new player, would your opinion change?

[Vi]

ITT, ultimate evil is represented by the only fitting soundtrack - bebop jazz.

'Wonder how hard we'll beg for THIS deadline extension <_<

---

Confirm vote on Vi, too.

Um... three obvious problems here.
1) Why.
2) You're currently voting for Ku_F. 'Remember? You thought she was more suspicious than Mic_K was willing to believe from that whole joke at the beginning of the day, and look at the flack he got from that.
3) Awesome, dodging tons of discussion. I wish I could do that and expect to get away with it. *takes notes*

Incidentally, I never bothered to stop voting for KüF. 'Should change that.

Unvote: Ku_F
Vote: Jebus

[Vi]

The "Vi has indeed read Rule 14" Unofficial Vote Count:

Jebus (5) - Microphone_Kirby, DragonsofSummer, Vi, Save The Dragons, Natirasha

Ku_F (1) - Jebus
Microphone_Kirby (1) - Kmd4390

Not Voting: Capricious, DraketheFake, Ku_F

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. This means Jebus is at L-1.

Where is Capricious? <.<

[Vi]

I'm not liking how apparently I'm on the "back burner" (and nobody's talking about Natirasha, oddly), but there's still plenty of time to take cheap shots this way.

I don't think the masons should have been outed yet, but I think Vi was going to claim regardless of what Ku_F said.

Oh, really...? I'd like for you to expand on that second statement.
In addition to that, clarify that first statement in light of this--

Are you aware that more times than not, an unconfirmed mason is scum? Not to say it's impossible for you to both be town, but if I were you, and I were town, I'd be highly suspicious of my unconfirmed mason buddy.

--because being outed sounds fairly decent for Town if you buy into this setup meta.

-----

And of course, since I swear I have a some grasp over the English language, the last sentence should be a question.

I'm Ron Burgundy?

[Vi]

Vi, I doubt that Ku_F alone made you claim. I'm thinking you were going to claim regardless. If I am wrong let me know, but that's what I was thinking.

'Letting you know you're wrong.
I'm pretty sure we covered that I was

stupidly

blindly following Ku_F's practical joke and claimed because I thought it would completely screw the K00f's story over.

If you don't believe me here, it's your turn to answer a question. What would it mean if things are as you say and I was going to claim anyway?

[Vi]

Wait, so you AND Mic BOTH thought Ku_F was seriously stalking Nat and that forced you to claim?

More like I knew Ku_F was lying and wanted to turn tables on her. I thought I had a Crowning Moment of Awesome there for a second.

As far as whether Ku_F meant to out Masons...

How was I rolefishing? You claimed mason and

I wanted to know who your partner is as he could confirm that there are masons present.

But why didn't you tell who your partner is yesterday?

'Sounds like a yes to me.

Talking of which, Ku_F hasn't been here for 11 days and is being inactive in her other games (losing one because of it). 'Sounds like a replacement is in order.

[Vi]

Your pussyfooting with the whole, "we're confirmed! trust us!" thing bothers me, no matter what you say, I'm sorry. Therefore, I'm not going to put you back on the shelf and say "nope, I'm not suspicious of either of you."

And that's fine; I can understand that.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THAT NATIRASHA HAS DONE THIS ENTIRE GAME HAS BEEN HELPFUL. I've been making snide comments to him as well, but I'm not getting much out of him. To be honest, the mason claim is the reason he's not getting more attention from me is because he's claimed mason.

Just looking through today, I can see you've made snide

comment

, singular, toward N; and even that enveloped both of us. That's what I was talking about in the part you quoted.
As far as Natirasha being ultimately unhelpful throughout, I'll certainly agree. But why are you paying Natirasha LESS mind and me MORE mind for literally the same thing? See Post 422 before answering.

@STD: What direction were you going with that last post, exactly? I don't quite follow where you were going overall with all the responses.

-----

Yes, Ku_F wanted a mason claim. Doesn't mean you had to do it.

Do I really need to get a 2x4 out and repeat why I claimed when I did whilst beating you over the head until you understand that: I told the truth the first time; my story's not going to change; and I feel that my action was justified at the time, if mistaken?

So Kmd, why are you voting Mic_K (in the context of not voting for anyone else)?

[Vi]

Why do I only see three, maybe four people in this topic with ten supposedly playing? There's only so far we can go without outside input here.

[Vi]

Still, considering Jebus's recent activity on the board, wouldn't it be really nice to not have to send that prod out?

[Vi]

Still, considering Jebus's recent activity on the board, wouldn't it be really nice to not have to send that prod out?

Very true...

Since the Mod is out, if Jebus is scum and

scum are allowed to daytalk

, can we get Jebus's scumbuddies to prod Jebus please?[/semi-joke]

Are they?

[Vi]

I don't recall bolding that 'if'...

[Vi]

Why?

[Vi]

Yes and no, actually. I was for a while, but then I realized reading comprehension was failing me (again) and you never stated they could.

That same reading comprehension failure is why I was continuing this, because I took your bolding to mean you were highlighting "if Jebus was scum" instead.

Since the Mod is out,

if

Jebus is scum and

if

scum are allowed to daytalk, can we get Jebus's scumbuddies to prod Jebus please?[/semi-joke]

^^^Fixed, correct?

[Vi]

Correct. Sorry about the confusion.

And apologies for getting worked up over so little. This game is proving to be an exercise in humility <.<

Before I forget, your Ether-avatar continues to creep me out.

[Vi]

KMD and I were having this argument, and I'm trying to point out that the things he attacked M_K for would be hard to pin on a more experienced player.

oic
I think I agree more with the spirit of what you're saying; MicK said some dumb things that could be attributed easily to newbness, but it doesn't necessarily make him scum.
So out of curiosity, what kinds of mistakes WOULD you expect a more experienced player to make?

--------

And I, for one, will not excuse

either of you

in light of this anti-town (or detrimental) behavior.

Just looking through today, I can see you've made snide

comment

, singular, toward N;

and even that enveloped both of us.

--------

'Still waiting for Jebus to come back and make a short post in which all suspicion is conveniently ignored.

[Vi]

Speaking as the primary person involved, I'm already convinced of the possibility of Natirasha being KirbyScum as well as the possibility of being scum in spite of my claim (well, I'm not convinced of the second part, but I can see how you could be). I can also tell M_K that nowhere in the Role PM does it literally say that I am a Mason (although I would agree that Mason implies confirmed); just that we can pass notes, a similar function.

Deadline is when? Jebus is where?

[Vi]

Let me clarify.

I think "Mason", the title, should imply "confirmed". "Neighbor" is better for unconfirmeds, or in this case just "friends".

Useless semantics, etc.

[Vi]

Bumping this topic so any scumpartners who want to defend Jebus can come in and stop the deadline lynch

@modSSK: Have prods gone out?

[Vi]

Mic, do you see my point about unconfirmed masons now?

Which point, to be on the same page?

------------

I really don't think Jebus needs a replacement. The fact that Jebus is active in other games while drawing fire in this one is suspish.

[Vi]

I'm actually more interested in this.

Are you aware that

more times than not

, an unconfirmed mason is scum?

The obvious following question is "Then which one is scum, if either? Or are they both scum?"

Stick around me long enough and you'll notice that I hate setup meta, btw.

[Vi]

What a waste of a day.

Kmd, what's the difference between hammering (which you just did) and letting the deadline run out, IYO?

[Vi]

I must say, for a long time after I died I expected to be able to post this sometime. But...

To bionicchop2, SpyreX, and Kmd. You have my undying respect for 1) replacing into this game, and 2) actually pulling a win out. You are literally the reasons Town won.

To Jebus. Consider this a formal declaration that you're a policy vig in my book, and I will deliberately /out of any game I see you /in to.

To Microphone_Kirby. Good job sticking this one out. You were in this game on your own, and a lot on your plate with increasingly tougher players showing up in this game.

To MafiaSSK. There are a lot of things I could say, most of which you'd expect. So I'll say that the mass modkills were a good idea, it just should have been done sooner IMO.

To whoever. Suffice to say I'll refer to this game whenever I need a meta-reference to doing hilariously stupid things as Town (one of several similar meta-references). In case it needs to be mentioned plainly, I will take you literally unless otherwise I can tell you're being obviously sarcastic.

Also would you guys call this, a 10:2 vanilla Town win? Especially because the masons didn't do much?

Not really, considering it's factually untrue. Though you are correct that the Masons didn't do much :v