SSW III: Game over

[SpyreX]

See, what we have here is a lack of scumhunting. We need to be looking for humans already.

And I've found one. Not just any human, but because they're so fat I have to assume that not only do they want to kill us, they want to EAT US TOO.

Vote: Porkens

I WILL NOT BE YOUR DINNER

[SpyreX]

You see, also, besides, also also also.

(P.S. That means I am quadra nervous which, based on the principle of double negatives, means I'm DOUBLE SURE OF MYSELF IN ALL THINGS MUHAHAHA)

[SpyreX]

Be one with the raccoon. Look into his eyes and despair.

[SpyreX]

Good gravy I go to sleep and wake up to this? I hope that not all game its this mega-nocturnal.

If SP is scum, he's got balls of steel - As it sits, with that reaction I've got a town vibe.

Now, the whole Wall-E thing. That vote looks like serious business and, if so, its almost as awesome as the whole "policy lynch" that started the day off last game.

Unvote
Vote Wall-E

@BM (sup)
Why Cerebus over Donkey?

I think the best bet for a quick lynch today is the Wall-E wagon, we need the quick lynch.

so unvote, vote Wall-E

HoS: CoheedCambria - the quicklynch isn't what we're aiming for anymore. Even if it was, you're voting for someone who would need a turn around in order to get the votes needed which, of course, would take time.

My vote is on Wall-E for some serious what the hell logic explaining his random vote.

[SpyreX]

...WHAT?

Also, this seems to be what eveyone else is doing.

Also, this seems to be what eveyone else is doing.

I quoted it twice, because, WHAT?

[SpyreX]

^ See above. And, seriously, because everyone else is doing it? Really?

[SpyreX]

Well, if this follows how the last wolf game went I can buy it and, of course, we should have what it takes to confirm it.

I'm still flabbergasted at how scummy some of this has been, though. Flabbergasted enough to pass my vote on down to our new winner of the scummy prize of the day.

Unvote
Vote M4yhem

If people really need to see the case for the scummy, I'll post it. I think its pretty self explanatory though.

[SpyreX]

Sure, I could use a quick break from catching up on the game I just moved into.

(Based on M4yhem's post numbers)

2 - You vote sleepy saying Wall-E didn't need a reason for his random vote (Sleepy's post in question said: "why would you do something as silly as that?") AND, of course, Wall-E provided a reason that was really off (and got worse).

5 - Then you swap to Wall-E for poor logic (which is fine) but number 2 already seems odd in how this whole thing went down.

6 - Express dislike of the quicklynch (fine)

7 - Again express dislike

9 - Go ahead with the quicklynch (what)

11 - Again say the quicklynch is a bad idea (yet still voting along with it).

12 - Swap back to Wall-E saying "This seems to be what everyone else is doing" (I really dont like that)

13 - Imply your Wall-E vote is for the quicklynch (which had been shot down at this point)

14 - Ask for hammer before we get a claim (very scummy)

15 - Say you weren't serious with your suggestion of a quick hammer (and, apparently your vote on Wall-E)

16 - Say you were enjoying the mindless bandwagoning, but then say it was totally irresponsible.

18 - Having Fun != scummy.


You know what, it is a game and I do play to have fun. Having fun isn't inherently scummy. Funny thing is, I also play to win and if I'm having fun I sure am not doing things that jeopardize those chances.

However, in this short amount of time you've already:

1.) Expressed dislike of the quicklynch then voted along with it.
2.) Justified a vote saying its what the town is doing.
3.) Asked for someone to hammer before we got a claim from someone who had soft claimed a power role.
4.) Said you were just mindlessly bandwagoning and "having fun" as reasons for the above actions.

That, especially in a swift game, is very scummy. Far scummier than anyone else has been at this point and thats why I'm more than content with my vote.

[SpyreX]

@Wall-E,

Say as exact as possible without modkill what your role does.

@Mayhem,

The biggest problem with letting you see another day is, honestly, right now your play has been the scummiest. I am not, as it stands, going to vote for someone else who isn't being scummy.

[SpyreX]

Lord, I must just be in a different timezone because this game sure gets active when I'm not here.

I'm not seeing the case on Cerebus at all this point - but the amazing amount of noise thats being introduced because of it is awesome.

If I'm an idiot for making someone who softclaimed on his approach to hammer finish his claim, then I am - thats fine. Softclaiming is ridiculous.

As it sits and I stated, I think M4hyem has been scummy from the whole lynch-move business and, surprise, no one else as struck me as being as scummy yet.

Like BM, I'm very sure about Sleepy / Wall-E being town at this point.

[SpyreX]

I dont find you scummy for "coming to your senses" - I find you scummy for the series of actions that led to it. I posted why I thought you were being scummy and nothing you've said has really made me think any of that was less so.

I blame BM. His enthusiasm for the quicklynch was contagious.

That was a real quick turnaround you had from being initially opposed to it to wanting to quicklynch. Also, avoiding the fact so many people had chimed in saying it was a bad idea (once Panda's stalled) really puts that in question.

I don't see how my actions would benefit scum. Bandwagonning maybe yes, but bandwagonning while loudly announcing what you're doing, not so much.

We were ONE away from killing a power-role and you asked for a hammer before a claim - you can't see how that would benefit scum?

FoS: Porkens

- Jumping on that late without a reason is very suspicious.

[SpyreX]

... What?

Explain why you believe all 4 of those claims.

[SpyreX]

I think you're missing my point. If believing the claims helps you narrow down your lynch choice but the claims themselves are lies, then you're narrowing down a choice omitting the actual scum.

So, explain to me, please, why you believe those claims individually.

Vote count

(16 players alive = 9 to lynch before deadline)
(8) M4yhem – farside22, SpyreX, SleepyPanda, Wall-E, Cass, Empking, Grimmy, Porkens
(2) Wall-E – donkeyz12212, Lord Gurgi
(2) cerebus3 – Battle Mage, CoheedCambria09
(1) Empking – M4yhem
(1) Battle Mage – cerebus3

Not voting:

raider8169, Septia

Deadline:

Thursday 31 July 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[SpyreX]

Did I read that right, was that just hammer?

[SpyreX]

I'm not sure what the "rules" are for twilight in this setup but we should probably just get a few beers and chillax out instead of continuing actual conversation until the morning?

[SpyreX]

Johoo - I think there's a mistake in the flavor (it says Wall-E was found mauled, but Sleepy is dead)

Anyways, hells bells. Sleepy doesn't surprise me though.

Wall-E, if you saw someone go to SleepyPanda, say so, otherwise I'd think stay quiet.

I'm going to have to reread what's been going on. 16 players at start we're looking at 3-4 scum?

Right now I'm really thinkin one of the unexplained jump-votes, if not more than one, are scum.

[SpyreX]

You night owls, damnit.

I will do whatever the heck I feel like doing, thanks.

I wonder if there are three scum and I track one by luck and the scum do a night kill would I see that scum "talk" to the victim or would I have to target the specific scum who did the night kill? Is there like a scum leader who is in charge of the actual night kill?

That inspires confidence - especially considering you didn't know what a tracker WAS at the beginning and day 1 you announced who you were going to track and Cass told you not to for the EXACT REASON you stated yet, of course, you still did it.

Maybe that's why I wanted to make sure you didn't out a power role that went to someone else.

thats possible, but would require experienced scum who played in one of the preceding games (or read them Rolling Eyes)
How many people here fit that description?

Hmm...it sure would. I wonder who here was experienced scum in the previous games. Its a mystery.

---

Anywho, to the real business of the day.

I've got 3 major WTF suspects on my scumdar now. Donkey, Raider, Coheed.

Donkey:

And Im not really sure that it's really helping town to be honest to be jumping all over the place with the votes. Sure, its a good idea to cast the light on players but in the last few posts we have suspects from:
Sleepy Panda, Cerebeus, Mayhem, Donkeyz12212, Wall-E, and a more high profiled Battle Mage.

I dont like this. The town should be placing suspects. Why wouldn't they? The fact its brought up like a bad thing really gets me. We do not want unopinionated town.

Hmm...I find it interesting that May4hem turned up townie as I guess he was suspicious to me as well.
I vote: Porkens
just because I think scum is on the latter of that bandwagon

There's sure a lot more than just Porkens on the latter half of that bandwagon. Why him? Well, my gut reading this says "He's the one with votes". Bah

Ack, I apologize for leaving my vote on Wall-E after the confirmation. The day goes by so quickly that I hadn't had a chacne to read up on everything and realize that Wall-E claimed he was a tracker. My fault.
In regards to the night kill, I'm not sure if I am surprised that Panda was killed. He was ready to be a quick lynch but I guess it was his reaction to his quick lynch that made him seem evidently townie??
I just find the replacement, Porkens, to hammer suspicious for some reason. I can't get my fingers on it but just something was really off.

Why discuss the night kill reason at this point? Doubling it up with having the wrong name (which of course coincides with you who are voting for) makes me extra weary.

If I may ask BM, as I'm still pretty much learning, which sentence indicates discussing scum motive?

I may be wrong on this, because its been a bit, but weren't you IN the first SSW game? In fact, weren't you scum?

Opinion: 80% chance of Scum.

Raider:

Hi everyone im here.
Just finished reading. I dont understand why M4yhem is still alive but Vote M4yhem .
Also FOS Porkens. With him jumping from one bandwagon to another with little to no reason other then to be a part of the main group seems scummy to me. I will have to look into it more for the next day

I really dont like the fact he hammered then, later, put up the case for it (I'll get into the case in a bit).

Post 64, he was trying to kill someone quickly, but yet questionable about it (about a claim). For someone who has played for a while I thought this was a small hint and caused me to keep an extra eye on his posts.
Then in post 69 he wants Wall-E to defend himself. If you are trying to quickly hammer someone why would you let them defend themselfs it just doesnt work. The idea behind a quick lynch was bad from the get go. Scum most likely checked in quickly or was lurking from the get go. As soon as the thread opened I am sure they sent in there night requests as did everyone else.
Post 131 just was trying to get someone to hammer even though the quick lynch was called off. Post 136 he backs off saying he was not serious. I thought that to be BS. At this point is when I wanted to vote for him. Nothing from there on out convinced me otherwise.

The post 64 fits in exactly with what he was doing at that point. I'm not sure what "caught an eye" about it.
Its the second paragraph that gets me. Even in a quick lynch you should want to let them give SOME defense (in case they were a power role). The speculation on the scum (especially the lurking bit) also gets me.
The last bit, of course, I agree with.

Post 169 he jumped bandwagons and said that seems sound. I didnt get a good feeling about that. Post 171 he said he was scummy to stop a wagon. The Wall-E wagon after the claim was bad. I belive the claim. Plus if some gets off a bandwagon at L-1 that is not scummy. Where a person puts their votes is up to them and if they feel the person is not scum I would hope they remove their vote (post 173). Post 308 M4yhem said to look at him so I am trying to honor his wish. To me the signs are there so Vote Porkens .

This is the part that makes me really start to think he's scummy. Post 169 he did jump bandwagons BUT he does acknowledge why in 171 (which has been dismissed so far). Saying you're voting for him in 308 WHEN YOU DID the exact same thing is a very bad appeal for emotion and that really bothers me. As if that wasn't enough, the one thing Porkens did that I really see as raising eyebrows was the vote onto mayhem and that wasn't even mentioned. Being a suspicious hammer and throwing suspicion on the vote before you really strikes me as off.

Forecast: 70% scum

Coheed:

I think the best bet for a quick lynch today is the Wall-E wagon, we need the quick lynch.
so unvote, vote Wall-E

Jumping this in on who (at that point) wasn't the highest vote total, and after we had talked about not quicklynching really gets me.

hey, so first off unvote, i must of missed the post about not quicklynching anymore.
Second I'm going to believe all four claims for the moment(panda=townie, Wall-E=tracker,BM=1shotkill, Mayhem=townie) if all those claims are true then its narrowed down our selection quiet a bit.
The whole exchange between Cerebus/Bm seemed like just background noise to me, with nothing significant going on. But since BM has claimed his role im going to vote:Cerebus3

I asked it then and never got an answer. Why I asked is obvious. He believed BM's joke claim and used it to justify his vote. I...I just dont have words.
And, for spite:

hey, unvote
I have to look back and read a bit top see where my vote will lie today.

Maybe you should have done that day 1 too.

Prediction: 110% not actually reading the thread, slightly (55%) scummy

Secret Suspect: BM - Why? He's BM.

Vote: Donkey

[SpyreX]

LG - the amount of votes on Porkens isn't what matters. Its the reasoning behind them. Donkey's play has struck me as off.

As it sits, from my read, I think that Cambrian -is- being scummy but I think thats more from a lack of paying attention to the damn game before he stumbles in versus BEING scum. So, no, I'm not totally convinced of it.

Wall-E, why BM?

[SpyreX]

And, in case that isn't clear enough - the FoS's day one coupled with your vote + the fact others were there WOULD make Porkens and easy jump for Donkey. His rationale behind it really struck me as "He's the one (on the latter half of the wagon) that is going to get votes, so."

[SpyreX]

Ok, I'm starting to get a tinfoil hat going on.

(I usually

play this game offline

so I'm still really new to online wolf. I thought I was the seer. Also from now on I'll be making my night actions public since I claimed. Tracking Battle Mage tonight.)

I'm going to Vote: Raider8169 for hammering and suspected lurking. Yes I know, he said he was gone, but I've used the "Going out of town" thing before

myself when scum

.

I honestly don't know what my power does. In all the werewolf games I've ever played we had a

Cop

and a Jailer who could protect someone from scum kills.

Anyway I'm a Werewolf Tracker. My role PM infers that I'm a

seer.

So, initially, I chalked my questions up to you being new to the werewolf setup (which isn't true) or being new to the online (which, based on the second quote isn't true).

I also, of course, went back and decided to look at the previous tracker PM and I'm not getting how you got "seer" (which, in the werewolf setup IS the cop which you make reference to) from what the previous tracker PM's say.

I also, of course, dont like announcing your tracking target, tracking your target and getting a null result AND then voting for him to "get a reaction" with no actual reason.

Its paranoia, but when (before the claim) I see BM thinking Wall-E is town and this whole scenario makes me start to wonder about BM-Wall-E scum with one other.

:tinfoil:

[SpyreX]

HAHA, teach me not to preview. So, yes, you're apparently not the only one.

[SpyreX]

And, also for the record, he says the names specifically in his PMs with an A.K.A saying what the normal role is. In WW1 it was Seer (A.K.A Cop).

The last one it was Sniffer (A.K.A Tracker)

Why did you just claim Tracker, not Sniffer and assume it was seer?

Unvote
FoS Donkey
Vote Wall-E

Vote count

(14 players alive = 8 to lynch before deadline)
(3) Porkens – Lord Gurgi, donkeyz12212, raider8169
(3) CoheedCambria09 – farside22, cerebus3, Grimmy
(1) donkeyz12212 – Cass
(1) Septia – Empking
(1) Empking – Battle Mage
(1) raider8169 – Wall-E
(1) Wall-E – SpyreX

Not voting:

CoheedCambria09, Porkens, Septia

Deadline:

Sunday 3 August 1:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[SpyreX]

Thats the rationale for all the play I have questions about? Lynch you to prove your alignment?

Well, ok!

[SpyreX]

Well, that was a lot more level headed than I expected.

Why did you check BM and then vote for him when you got a null-result?

Why, after I think it was Cass, mentioned that announcing your tracking target beforehand did you still do it?

[SpyreX]

Question 2) The scum have a choice of either nking him for being a near-confirmed towny or nking me for being a creator of near-confirmed townies. And yes, I do plan on announcing my targets in the future, and yes I will reveal the results. Either way, the town is spared from losing their cop another day.

If you announce your target ahead of time, while there is more than one mafia left, you are NOT confirming townies. At all. Thats why it was brought up.

Why have you been defending people and offering little in the way of votes?

I have to assume this is directed towards me. Show me one person I defended - the closest I can think of is Cambria and I'm not defending him (in the sense I think he's town) I think there are better lynches for today (because he's just flat out not paying attention to the game). I can sure show you the cases I've built on people being scum.

So, you're saying your role has no (a.k.a) in it?

[SpyreX]

Awesome, I have no idea why it quoted my reply. So, yes, that bottom quote is my actual statement.

[SpyreX]

Ohh lordy, I misread partially - teach me to post late.

I'm not sure how I managed this, either.

Earlier I said it was Sniffer (A.K.A. Tracker) when that obviously isn't the case. Tracker was just tracker, Sniffer was the Cop.

So, for that, my apologies. If he was telling the truth, the Sniffer would not be there.

However, with your "verbatim"

SSW I:

You are a tracker and that makes you good at following trails.

During each game day you can follow a player around and see who, if any, that player visits

(PM me the name of a player before deadline and during the night phase I will inform you if that player has visited/targeted any other player since last deadline.

SSW II:

You are a tracker in the pack and that makes you good at following trails.

During each game day you can follow a player around and see who, if any, that player visits.

PM me a player name that you want to track (make sure to send in your choice in time – see rule #008). During the night phase I will inform you if that player has visited/targeted any other player since last deadline.

BM's Scum Tracker:

Furthermore you are a skilled tracker.

During each game day you can also follow a player around and see who, if any, that player visits.

PM me a player name that you want to track (once again, make sure to send in your choice in time – see rule #008). You cannot both track and do a nightkill the same night.

All three of those actually DO use the same wording verbatim. So, unless you're going to tell me the mod is messing with you, YOU have not given a verbatim response. (notice that those are not as vague as yours either).

[SpyreX]

Ohh, if you see someone go to the NK target, announce you saw them and kill them.

However, I'm still not sure about your play.

[SpyreX]

It just flat isn't adding up to me. The play, the verbatim bit, the tracker choice, the attack on his choice. None of it makes sense to me as town play.

[SpyreX]

@Wall-E

Two more simple questions. If they're not answered fast, I'll be preturbed.

1.) Was that your verbatim role description?
2.) What is the town win condition?

[SpyreX]

(and, duh, I dont want you to quote anything and get modkilled. A solid paraphrase will work)

[SpyreX]

Stop making defenses for this. They're simple questions.

Hell, if we dont want to lose the claimed tracker, I'm officially more than happy to go to my original vote - but, regardless, I want answers from Wall-E to those two questions.

[SpyreX]

(My original vote is for Donkey and Donkey is bein scummy right above. )

[SpyreX]

Nice try bud. I think thats all we need.

You're scum and scum dont have safeclaims.

Well done gents. I better see some votes up here in the morning. Hell, it better go through hammer.

[SpyreX]

Well, what the hell.

I'm still new, I'll give you that, but I was SURE he was scum.

If BM was the same role berserk was in the others, I am really surprised he didn't use his vig either night.

I'm still really suspicious of Donkey & Raider. The funny thing the point Raider brings up about the NK choice on BM is kinda valid; BM would have had a lot of suspicion today, which means that there is a good chance the scum sent in the NK early and then wasn't active (Raider & Coheed jump to mind)

[SpyreX]

No, you didn't jump to mind for being a lurker. You jumped to mind because of timing and well, everything I said in my other post.

This time around I definitely do think finding out who pushed/not pushed for Wall-E is important, as scum knew Wall-E was telling the truth and better to get him out now than later?

What do you mean by pushed? Thats real vague and, although I wouldn't be surprised if there was a scum on it, his play was erratic enough that it COULD have been an all town thing. However, I will take a look at them, as always.

Maybe it's the fact you've been scummy all game, but that really makes me think you're pushing for us to look at them and, well, not you.

@Cass - I'm not sure what a "vengeful" berserk is, but the berserk from the last game was:

You role: werewolf berserk
You are a frenzied killer, highly valued in the tribe. You’ve got two one shot-abilities:
1. Frenzied attack (a.k.a one shot vigilante): You can kill any other player during one night, just PM me and tell who you’ll be targeting (make sure to send in your choice in time – see rule #008).
2. Rabid defence (a.k.a. one shot bullet proof): You will not die the first time someone tries to nightkill you (however, you won’t know when this rabid defence is used).
You win when all the threats against the werewolf pack has been eliminated.

Now, more than anything, the death of BM really confuses me. Its some WIFOM on some level, I know, but if the night-kill was early in the day, then BM would have made sense. As it was coming to a close, it would have made sense to let him live and be a solid suspect today. I cant figure out if I'm right about this theory, because I'd be looking for someone active early then dead...but, the lurkers came out to drop votes and, if they did, why wouldn't they have changed their night action?

Maybe I'm just giving myself a headache.

Looking at the Wall-E votes, personally:

SpyreX, cerebus3, Cass, Septia, Lord Gurgi, raider8169, CoheedCambria09, Battle Mage

Not Very Suspicious:

SpyreX - I'm not suspicious to me
Septia - Has been uniformly against the claim from the start.
Lord Gurgi - Voting for exactly the reason I expected, and saying so.
Cass - Kinda borderlline, but considering the play we had his posts (especially post 19) make sense and are giving a reason and the logical connection.

Suspicious:

Cerebus3 - Although he brings up the case (on top of me). I really dont like the "Anyone else see this?" without a vote or even a FoS at that point. I dont like building cases without backing them up, at all.

Very Suspicious:

Raider - Late vote, mostly lurked, no true reason for the vote (not even I agree, just I noticed what he said).
Coheed - Late vote, mostly lurked.. bad quantifier "Wall-E- he's been caught,

or thats what its really looking like

"

So, as it sits, I'm back to where I was before Wall-E decided to commit scumicide. Donkey, Raider and Coheed all look real bad. Although, between yesterday and today.

Vote: Raider

You've overtook Donkey as the scummiest player in this game. Its a close damn race though.

[SpyreX]

Well I stand by my vote of Wall-E guy was as scummy as heck.

This is 100% true. The only reason I feel bad about EITHER lynch we've done so far is the fact they were actually town. Both players were very scummy - which, on one level, does screw up looking at the votes.

However, we do still have some classic scum-hunting tools with all this.

1.) Opportunistic voting (Raider, Coheed)
2.) Distancing voting (Donkey, Coheed)
3.) Building cases yet not voting (Cerebus)

I'm still REALLY not seeing Porkens or Septia at this point. Probably on some level because of the above.

The reason I am voting for Raider over the other 3 is, of all the above, both of those reek of opportunism and, ultimately, its the opportunistic votes that help get people lynched whereas the distance votes just are troublesome.

[SpyreX]

Nanananaa MULTIPOST

Mostly lurked, I love it when people say that about me. Yeah about that...No I didnt lurk. Looking back I posted on the 31st and then wait whats this OMG this will be my 5th post for today. Wow for a lurker that must not be enough. Sorry, I hate it when people call me a lurker when I post more then most people on this site.

Ohh, I guess thats my bad then. Lets look at your posts for day 2.

Ok I owe everyone a case as I was the hammer and said I would do so.
Post 64, he was trying to kill someone quickly, but yet questionable about it (about a claim). For someone who has played for a while I thought this was a small hint and caused me to keep an extra eye on his posts.
Then in post 69 he wants Wall-E to defend himself. If you are trying to quickly hammer someone why would you let them defend themselfs it just doesnt work. The idea behind a quick lynch was bad from the get go. Scum most likely checked in quickly or was lurking from the get go. As soon as the thread opened I am sure they sent in there night requests as did everyone else.
Post 131 just was trying to get someone to hammer even though the quick lynch was called off. Post 136 he backs off saying he was not serious. I thought that to be BS. At this point is when I wanted to vote for him. Nothing from there on out convinced me otherwise.

Ok, an after-the-fact explanation. Thats ..ok. A decent sized post as well.

Ok, moving on next is my case on Porkens.
Post 169 he jumped bandwagons and said that seems sound. I didnt get a good feeling about that. Post 171 he said he was scummy to stop a wagon. The Wall-E wagon after the claim was bad. I belive the claim. Plus if some gets off a bandwagon at L-1 that is not scummy. Where a person puts their votes is up to them and if they feel the person is not scum I would hope they remove their vote (post 173). Post 308 M4yhem said to look at him so I am trying to honor his wish. To me the signs are there so Vote Porkens .

A very short case on Porkens, including the "M4yhem said to" at the end.

Porkens was the L-1 person, I was the hammer.

One line.

A while later:

What does the I was out of town have anything to do with it? My case waited until I was back and then I posted it.

Another, one liner.

Just as long as you dont mind an OMGUS DIACFWLS vote later!

DIACFWLS- Die in a car fire with leather seats. I just learned that the other day and wanted to use it Razz

Junk post.

Cant say I read them, more skimmed then for the storyline.

Another one liner.

Again, much later.

Im not voting Wall-E because I just read up and noticed what he said. So Unvote, Vote Wall-E .

Woo, yet another one liner with a vote!

So, maybe "lurking" isn't the right word. Content Lurking sure is. Lurking in plain sight sure is. Saying you post more than other people well, maybe you hit the post button more but you sure haven't provided more.

Its funny that you are accusing people for voting late when YOU told people too. That was more/less my reason for voting. I was trying to push a porken's lynch but the Wall-E one I thought was a confirmed scum.

Yep, you should totally arbitrarily listen to what I say. It makes a good defense for reasonless late votes later.

If you're going to say you voted because I TOLD you too, seriously? Hell, you could have at least said you agreed with my case or what was going on, anything... but just because I told you to?

Nicely done.

I find myself coming back to this quote. Did you not want people to join the bandwagon to a lynch?

Good lord, yes I did. Based on his play, as I saw it and as LG specifically said, he was being scummy and it made PERFECT sense to assume exactly what I did at that point.

However, see, LG at least gave the reason why he was. I sure as hell didn't expect people to blindly follow me. I was just saying the evidence was obviously there in full.

[SpyreX]

What can be said about me? That I'm a lurker? That I'm not providing content? Sure, give that a shot. I'll bite.

I dont know if anyone followed blindly, but in a game where all we have is the context of the game itself...there's a huge difference between, for example, LG's vote on that wagon and yours. If you dont see that I dont know how to help you.

As for what I hoped to get out of it? Catching scum. I thought I was right, I still think the lynch made sense, but without people giving reasons that makes me suspicious.

[SpyreX]

Let me summarise. Guy claims Tracker. Guy proves he is a Tracker. Guy then attacks the guy whom he got the closest a tracker gets to an 'innocent investigation'. Guy makes no sense, and ends up bandwagonned by almost half the town. So much smoke and white noise that nobody else thinks about hunting scum. I dont know if he's scum or not. I'm completely clueless, and i'm not sure i even care!

Not that it matters in the slightest to YOUR vote, but yes, thats a reason. He made it clear his vote wasn't a strong one when he made it and he did explain it after the fact and YES, believe it, I would have been very suspicious of him for those reasons today if he wasn't dead.

What does his alignment have to do with yours though? I thought you were playing oddly before this whole mess went down.

I am not saying you are lurking what I am saying is that the town does not have much information on you other then you are very aggressive and you like to accuse and are often wrong.

What information do you want from me? My opinions? Those have been made clear. My stances? Those have been made clear. My favorite color? Its dark blue. I'll clear up anything else you'd like.

Side note, I will only be able to check tomorrow morning and then hopefully tomorrow night. Please dont take this as lurking.

I'm not sure if you're being snide or what. You didn't provide much of anything yesterday. I call it lurking, you argue with the semantics, sure. At the least, you weren't providing content and just hopped on and had the gall to say it was because I somehow compelled you to do it. If you didn't think it was valid, say so. If you thought the lynch was valid, say so. Sure as hell you shouldn't go "SpyreX told us to say so" as part of your reason.

Yep, I've been wrong so far in their alignments. Nope, I'm not going to feel bad about either lynch because I was lynching scummy players.

[SpyreX]

I think, of the three, coheed has the highest chance of just not reading the game and stumbling in spewing scum all over.

Why is it scummy? You built a case but didn't follow it until you saw that others were going to. The "does anyone else see this" really doesn't ever do it for me.

[SpyreX]

But the claim was real, so how does this put Septia in a good light? Scum can be consistent too.

Yes, they can. With other suspects high on the radar, the consistency (which has been lacking in some places) really doesn't hit me as scummy in comparison.

I don't think that "unvote, vote" posts help the town at all.

Ummm, (Wall-E’s win condition)’s different than mine. Unvote; Vote Wall-E

The first part gives the reason, what SHOULD have been a 100% valid reason and caught us scum. I'm pissed about that still.

Finally, it cannot go without note that the only three people to vote for both misslynches were SpyreX, Raider, and Cass. FOS SpyreX, FOS Cass. Before you jump down my throat, I realize both were well-rationalized lynches. However, the coincidence can’t be overlooked.

Well, my defense is that I started them because both plays were scummy and, even now, I dont regret lynching them - I just regret they were scummy town. So, yep.

[SpyreX]

Lord, I was making my post while you made yours. Look at the time stamps on it all.

Like I said, you're not one of my major scum suspects, the fact that you asked for what other people thought made me wonder in retrospect.

[SpyreX]

Before I even get started, for fun.

I hope you are aware that the same stuff can be said about you.

(Me lurking)

I am not saying you are lurking what I am saying is that the town does not have much information on you other then you are very aggressive and you like to accuse and are often wrong.

SpyreX, at this point I see you accusing just about everyone.

SpyreX has given his opinion on everyone that he think matters. I dont think you will ever need to ask his opinion.

So, I'm lurking, but I'm not, but no one has any information on me, but I've given my opinion on everyone that I find scummy (but not everyone) yet I've accused everyone AND porkens is in my back pocket?

Coo, glad we got that cleared up.

Its funny that you are accusing people for voting late when YOU told people too. That was more/less my reason for voting.

I dont think anyone that voted followed blindly.

So, you voted (more or less) because

I

told people to, but no one followed it blindly?

SpyreX, at this point I see you accusing just about everyone. It hard to take what you say seriously anymore. I have said a few times why I voted Wall-E. The case was obvious so I would not expect people to post reasons why they change their vote. What I want you to answer is why are you jumping from one person to the next so fast? You just pick a person and try and force a lynch. This may net you scum but you will most likely take out a few townies in the process. I like the aggressiveness but I think the cost is too much in a game like this. Granted the deadline I am sure plays a part but right now all scum had to was sit back and let you do their work. Its hard to say but if you keep up the way you do I hope at some point you find your target.

Well, needless to say, I haven't accused everyone. Aside from our two lynches that decided to jump out and be scummy, I've been pretty focused on two of you (Raider and Donkey) with a third reasonable target (Coheed) and a forth that rose some suspicion (Cerebus). I think I've stated more than once I do not see the Porkens case (which, implies I think he's town at this point) as well as Septia. I think that covers most of the players with real pushes on them at this point.

I dont "pick a person and force a lynch" - it jsut happens that this game, so far, as I prod for information they appear scummier and scummier (I.E. you). I've got no qualms backing down if, through discussion, my opinion is changed. This game is swift and we DO NOT have time to just sit around and hope to get lucky. I'll push cases as I see them.

And, YES, I've been accused before of "breaking eggs for my omelets" - play scummy and I'm going to push you. I'm not going to tiptoe, especially at early game, and let scummy players slide. I'm going to put my vote and try to get them lynched.

So there you go. You're definitely not lurking today like you've been, but you've decided to be overly defensive and, as said above, erratic and scummy in your responses. So, good sir, I am MORE convinced your scum now.

I'd love a real breakdown on the Coheed case from one of the very quiet today coheed voters.

[SpyreX]

@Farside

What about the Porkens is WIFOM? I'm missing it.

Can you explain the Coheed case, as you see it.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX,

The stuff that could be said about you is that you are you do alot of one-liners and crap and we dont have much information about you other then where you stand with alot of people. The information I want is when people get on the defensive. I see you as you hate being accused of something and then push anything just to turn the tables. You are also good at it too. You have focused on 6 people then. Out of the 6 you got 2 to lynch and both turned up town. That is what makes me wonder about you but they did act scummy. Hence why I placed a vote as well. You are the reason I put a vote on Wall-E because of what you pointed out but I didnt follow blindly. Also I never said you were lurking. I guess you could say it was implied but that was not what I was going for, hope this cleared that up.

I have a lot of one liners? I cant think of many, even my short posts that are one liners and, even of them, most I am trying to actually still push my opinions or make points on scummy behavior. If you're saying I'm not giving content, well, there you go.

I'm not giving enough informaiton because I'm not on the defensive? Well... build a case then. I'm still not understanding what you're trying to get at. I am not "turning the tables" - If someone is scummy, I'm gonna go after it. If they think I'm scummy well, I'll answer it. I dont know what you're looking for.

As for the "I've went after 6 people and the two that died were town." I'm not sure, again, what you're implying. They both, of course, were scummy and, like I've said before I dont feel bad about the lynches except for the fact they actually were town.

You know what though. You think I'm scum, say it. This whole scenario really feels like some very subtle OMGUS.

[SpyreX]

What I was implying is that you need to back off a bit (not against me cause it is helping me add more to the game) but it seems you are just pushing people for everything little thing and then once a mistake is made more will follow until everyone can agree they look scummy and then poof you have yourself another mislynch. Just something I want you to think about is all. If I think you are scum though I will be sure to type it out and most likely bold it too.

There's only one problem.

Telling someone to hammer before the party can claim isn't a small mistake.

Voting for the person you tracked after not knowing what a tracker was and not knowing the win condition isn't a small mistake.

Your voting history and the way you responded to me (accusing me of lurking and the like) isn't a small mistake.

I'm not building a case on nothing. I'm building it on scummy behavior and I will continue to do so.

[SpyreX]

hmm... How was his win condition wrong Lord Gurgi? It matches up to mine.

Wait, what? What he said matches up with your win condition?

[SpyreX]

Ok, what the hell?

Cerebus, you better explain that vote, because if you say what I think you're gonna say, your gonna THINK the push on Wall-E was a slow one in comparison.

[SpyreX]

We were all boppin along and then apparently it started raining scum and we all got stuck with it, lordy be.

@Cerebus
Answer that question, please. Why did you vote for LG after that exchange?

@Coheed
Wow, I think this is the first real content we've seen. Lurk less, post more, and build a case

@Jebus
I don't feel bad about my lynches, but I dont WANT raider dead if he is town.

@Farside
You've been megaquiet most of today, and you come in responding to coheed's question to lg posting a defense? FoS farside. I'm not gettin this at all. I've asked what the Coheed case really is, and its apparent that at least one of you on it are active, so why not help a brotha out.

We've got ONE day left and I dont want a deadline scramble or a damn apathy-Coheed lynch. I would like to see the reasons for the Coheed and I would really like to see us do this today instead of tomorrow.

[SpyreX]

2) I win if the adversaries to our group are destroyed.

So, he changed three words in there is what you're saying. I'm going to HAVE to assume you're saying the words are adversaries, group and destroyed.

2)His distinction between group and village is completely arbitrary, the only reason I can come up with is that Lord gurgi seems to think that village is the collective name for the town, when in fact it is not. It is a wolf pack.

So, you're saying that the word group in the first is ACTUALLY wolf pack.

Read again.

I agree with you here. I would rather a lynch be from votes then a deadline. However I take it your are agianst the Porkens lynch?

I'd prefer you, but I do see what farside is saying now.

I would support the Coheed lynch, but I still would rather see the raider lynch.

[SpyreX]

His distinction between group and village is completely arbitrary, the only reason I can come up with is that Lord gurgi seems to think that village is the collective name for the town, when in fact it is not. It is a wolf pack.

I tried. I did. I swear. I even asked you to read it again.

The above is a lie. It IS a village. Its said it's a village in the OP and in the PM.

Unvote: Vote Cerebus3

[SpyreX]

Note, I'm asking everyone to look, and look closely. Read the above. If its a lie, again, I'm asking for a vote. This is even more ridiculous than Wall-E badly paraphrasing. It is a lie.

[SpyreX]

From the mod post 2:

Wolventon, the centre for werewolf activity in the realm.

The wolves have first taken control over the village

and then withheld it against a human strike team. Though there is something

with this town

, because killings and deaths have been reported around yet again, though there are, as of now, no details about the killings. However, the werewolves are once again prepared to

defend their acclaimed city

.

IT IS A VILLAGE. We are wolves, but this is our village.

[SpyreX]

Good lord, and then you just softclaimed? Really?

I dont know what to make of this.

[SpyreX]

Like I said, we'll just see. Everyone read their PM's and see what it says. The votes will come accordingly, one way or another.

[SpyreX]

I'm not quoting my PM, but my PM says the word village. Village.

It is a village. A village. The village that we got in the first game and held in the second.

And, if we're arguing whats closer to what... which is a better comparison:

Village & City or Village & Wolf Pack.

No, you didn't hard claim, you just said, like what happened before. "Hay I'm a power role."

Good lord we did this once and we're going to do it again

[SpyreX]

And what I'm saying is that its not. I have no idea why you would have "wolf pack" instead of "village"

Unless you're trying to eliminate the wolves and assumed we're a pack, of course.

[SpyreX]

Thats why I haven't said anything but the word village. Which, yes is the "group" business.

And yes, it DOES seem like a really stupid scum gambit, but the fact you voted for LG for the same thing confuses the hell out of me.

[SpyreX]

I'm done with this twirly dance. Like I said, you've unequivocally said its wolf pack.

So, either the mod is messing with us or you're lying for whatever reason.

[SpyreX]

Well, after the Wall-E business I figured it was dead.

Knowing the win condition shouldn't mean much - except for the fact we've either got a liar or different win conditions within the town now.

Regardless, I hope after today it wont come up again.

[SpyreX]

Well, awesome. We've either got scum with ball of steel or the mod is messing with us.

[SpyreX]

Yea, there's somethin goofy goin on, but I dont think we're going to make progress on it.

Unvote. Vote:Raider.

Back to where we were.

[SpyreX]

I have no idea why I have a different win condition, but yea, there you have it.

[SpyreX]

Wow, things happened.

@Coheed, why Porkens?

Why is it that it took you to be less than a day from lynch before you really said anything about, well, anything?

[SpyreX]

Thats a weak case but I sure do like the fact you put it on to tie the votes up.

Wait, no I dont.

Unvote, Vote Coheed

[SpyreX]

For the record, this is exactly the situation I didn't want to see happen. We need to be more active before deadline. Coheed was not my first case but he sure as hell is scummier than Porkens has been.

The being unhelpful until up for lynch is highly suspect and building a weak case on the one person that COULD be lynchable is also, of course, suspect.

[SpyreX]

I think we've got a good chance to win this.

Well, with the way that played out:

Firmly Convinced Town:

Farside
Porkens

I'm also going to do something a little different today. I'm claiming off the bat!

I'm a she-wolf. Somewhere in the pack I had a cub. If I was killed, the cub would die, but if the cub died, I would be fine. It appears that my cub is now dead (I have NO idea why he was a mason - we couldn't communicate outside the thread).

I even was clever and breadcrumbed this. My first three posts:

See, what we have here is a lack of scumhunting. We need to be looking for humans already.

You see, also, besides, also also also.

Be one with the raccoon. Look into his eyes and despair.

See, You, Be phonentically is - CUB!

So, I've mentally narrowed it down to 7.

Still Ma Major Suspects:

donkeyz12212
raider8169

Still Suspect:

cerebus3
Jebus

Leanin Town:

Lord Gurgi
Cass
Septia

Now, raider dropping the hammer gets me, but I still think it would make sense as scum or town (no way the movement was shifting from coheed).

So, for now.

Vote donkeyz12212

[SpyreX]

Its a weird claim, but it is a weird role. 1-way lover isn't something I've seen before (of course I'm still new)

I figured that, with my cub dead, it made sense to claim right away because, well, if I was up for lynch it'd be much harder to stomach.

Also, with hitting one scum last night, anything to narrow targets is helpful. Like I said, I think we've got a good shot at this with the way that whole thing played out.

[SpyreX]

@Cass -

I think the village / wolf pack debate is going to be a red herring. I dont think Coheed ever said his, and we've had enough on both sides now that there'd be a whole mess of scum if that was the case.

I'm not, for the rest of the game, mentioning win conditions. I caused enough ruckus with it.

[SpyreX]

Ok, I'm stumblin through something, so follow me and let me see.

This plan requires, really, 3 initial premises:

1.) Coheed, before death, pushed on a townie (Porkens)
2.) Farside wasn't trying to bus a partner for two days.
3.) I'm telling the truth about my role.

Now, needless to say, I believe all three of the above.

With that as a starting point, we have 3/10 confirmed.

We had 16 to start, so we're probably looking at 4 total mafia (3 remaining) or, if we're lucky 3 total with 2 left. I'm going to assume worst case.

So, of 7, we have 3 maifa and 4 townies.

We've had 1 actual power role go down, so I would assume we have at least one or two left.

This leaves us with a few options:

1.) Massclaim today and use that to look for mistakes and/or abnormal overlap. Also, it would give us guidance for lynch.
2.) Kill an unconfirmed (I'd prefer, duh, donkey or raider).

I think, if my above assumations are correct, we have it. Especially if we have any power roles left. We hang an unconfirmed and the mafia either has to shoot in the dark at power roles or go after a confirmed. Either way, the town reduces the unconfirmed pool and we keep the lead on it.

The only huge problem would be if 2 of the 3 of above postulations were incorrect. If there are 2 scum above, it falls apart. Otherwise, we should be clear.

Thoughts? (P.S until we decide don't claim or anything silly)

[SpyreX]

I think we missed somethin here. I am for the claim, but if we do it, EVERYONE should claim. If we're going to get information, we better get it from everyone.

As for the list order, we can figure that out.

[SpyreX]

Lord, I leave for the evening and madness.

Ok, I'm lookin at the claims. (Thanks Porkens)

Cerebus: ? (post X) <not a power role> Townie
Spyrex: She-Wolf
Raider: Alpha Protector
LG: She-Wolf
Porkens: Vanilla Town Werewolf
Farside22: Cop
Septia: Werewolf Princess

Donkey: Cop

Cass: ?
Jebus: ?

Ok, I'm going to go ahead and claim for one of them. Donkey obviously breadcrumbed cop (734). Questioning the claiming and making a breadcrumb like that is very suspicious and I dont like it. Which, of course, makes me weary - in a game this size we will NOT have two functioning cops....

Unless the talk of a cult is right.

@Donkey - Finish your claim. Tell your night actions and what the result is - especially the (human / not human)
@Farside - It is, 100%, human / not human?

So in that setup, we've got either a cult or one of them is lying.

Now, as for the other double we have: LG and I. This one is real simple. If Cass or Jebus doesn't claim cub, you have to hang one of us. I can not see a situation with two 1-way lovers for the same cub.

Now, the other funny thing is - we've got someone (raider) who has said they are a protector for a role that hasn't been claimed. Again, we have to look at Cass or Jebus; if neither of them are the Alpha wolf, then we've got an issue.

Of COURSE, If both those scenarios play out (Cass/Jebus are the cub/alpha wolf) then we'll need to take a step back and look again.

So, summary.

We've got 2 cops - one of which only makes sense if there IS a cult.
We've got 2 she-wovles and only one cub claimed.
We've got a protector that doesn't have the role he's protecting claimed yet.
We, apparently, do NOT have a doctor.

So, Cass and Jebus need to claim ASAP.

[SpyreX]

Let me rephrase - if we have a doctor, we also have a liar (raider / lg / me)

[SpyreX]

Now, back to the next huge WTF:

Farside, Gurgi and Septia, spyrex are probably scum i'm positive.
These 4 top my suspicion list based on process of elimination.
Can someone explain why the need to claim?

You're saying process of elimination. You've "claimed" cop. This would mean either you've gotten results on us (which isn't, of course, true) or somehow you had 6 investigations or you're just, well, I dont know.

Please give your list.

I'm off to bed all.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX, you really should have waited until the claiming was done, you essentially told Cass and Jebus what was safe to claim if they are scum. I think you are also jumping to conclusions that donkeyz was bread crumbing cop.

I

'm pretty

A

damant on the fact that

M

y suspicions are true but

C

orrect me if I'm wrong but

O

riginally

P

layers are suppose to base things on process of information right depending on what their role is in the game?

Yea, I must have been craaazzyyy to think he breadcrumbed cop or something.

Cass being the mason cub makes sense - it makes LG and I both being she wolves legitimate AND it explains why the hell Grimmy was a mason when I'm not.

Our two Jack of all Trades: If your role specifically mentions two scum groups... WHY didn't you say anything?

@Donkey - do you HAVE to track tonight? You've claimed the same thing as Jebus (or very similiar) - could you use a different ability? Why is it that only you have "consequences" if you claim (even though, for all intents and purposes, you have) Why did you breadcrumb cop and JoaT (especially when you haven't USED a cop action)? Personally, I think there's more than a small chance you are NOT a JoaT and are, in fact, a scum rolecop.

[SpyreX]

Donkey is being obtuse for no reason:

@Donkey and Jebus - is your role name "Alpha Wolf"

(As an aside, Alpha Wolf was a fake claim last game...by BM of all people. )

Its soo hard for me to not hammer, especially when - get this - there's now an obvious connection between.... donkey and raider.

Another thing Donkey -

If you ARE telling the truth, why the hell are you so sure of LG? If Cass IS a cub, then LG & I's claims make sense (mothers to cubs who, because they're "friends" or whatever, are masons).

@Farside -

Why didn't you put in someone D2? I mean, it wasn't -that- fast of a day and you did post on it?

But, for funnin'

Players that have connected themselves:
LG / SpyreX : Grimmy / Cass
Donkey / Raider

Players with the same role:
LG / SpyreX
Grimmy / Cass
Porkens / Cerebus
Donkey / Jebus (?)

Number of vanilla players all game: 4/16 (M4hyem, Sleepy, Porkens, Cerebus)

So, that means. 1/4 vanilla, 1/4 scum (?), 1/2 power roles??

If thats true, the scum would have to be pretty powered for balance. We have had no reports of RB's, only 1 NK.

IF there is a cult, we need to be damn worried though. They'd be, worst case, at 5 members. However, if it is a cult they, most likely, could not kill so that doesn't explain the NK.

I'm out for a while today.

[SpyreX]

Wait... WHAT?

You investigated Cass and got her alignment AND role in one investigation?

[SpyreX]

Cass, I've got one question for ya. But, this is a big one:

Does your PM say if your mason was confirmed town or not?

@Donkey -

All you know from Cerebus N2 is that he didn't perform the NK. From the looks of it, if its not a cult and a mixed werewolf/human mafia group, Coheed did the early NK's and didn't do last nights.

We DO have all our claims though, finally.

[SpyreX]

@Spyrex: this is why I called your claim weird and asked for the use of it in the first place, just after you claimed. Frankly, I still don't see the use of it. But I assume you didn't consider that both masons were cubs? (Despite the role name!)

Honestly, the reason I claimed is:
1.) I didn't expect there to be two she-wolf / cub sets.
2.) With, what I assumed, my cub dead claiming made sense before I had pressure - at that point I assumed I was just a vanilla townie.
3.) I wanted to do it early because I think the massclaim will work on today, so I started the ball.

Actually, with your claim (and mod-confirmation of alignment) (ready for this) I am willing to say LG and you are most likely town.

1.) We were given the same role.
2.) There ARE two cubs.
3.) LG and I obviously, from the way the last couple days played out, have the same role PM in relation to win condition (which, to me, implies a copy paste)

Now, I have no idea who's cub you are, but as it sits, I have no real suspicion of you.

So, mentally, that narrows me down to 5 players with, probably, 3 scum.

Donkey
Raider
Jebus
Septia
Cerebus

Now, my feelings on these five people, as it sits, and my pro's / con's of lynching them.

Donkey/Raider

Now, I would like a specific claim from Jebus with his role name, because that may play a part. AS IT SITS, it is much more likely for these two players to have different alignments - they are either scum or town, together. I say only much more likely because, of the claim order(Donkey seeing what Raider claimed, jumping on Alpha Wolf), it is possible that Donkey is scum and Raider is not - however, the inverse I think is highly unlikely (Raider would have had to know there was an Alpha wolf prior to the claim).

Reasons For Lynch:

Before this madness, I was suspicious of both Donkey AND Raider - the fact they have a probable tie in their roles really makes me wonder.

Donkey's claim has, to me, holes in it. He's said he's got the same role as Jebus, yet hasn't claimed the same things. He, also, breadcrumbed cop instead of Joat or, well, any of the roles he's actually done. In one investigation he got both alignment and role on Cass.

So, if Jebus out and says he is the Alpha Wolf - I would say lynch Donkey. If Jebus does NOT say he is the Alpha Wolf, I would say lynch Raider. If, of course, Raider is scum, tomorrow is Donkey's lynch.

Also, and I just thought of this - Donkey has said he has a 1 BP. Raider is claiming he can take a hit for the Alpha. WHY would a JoaT have two night protections?

Reasons Against Lynch:

Donkey has the chance to be a definite solid power role. Lynching Raider removes some of that protection.

Overall: Pro Lynch.

Septia

Reasons For Lynch:

Werewolf Princess IS, actually, a very good scum claim. Septia has been one of the more quiet players (not quite lurking, just very low-key compared to others). Beloved princess in what is, in essence, a nightless game also double hurts the town and could easily be too much for the town to deal with (especially if the maf got two sets of not-kill night actions)

Reasons Against Lynch

Losing the princess would definitely hurt us. Septia, overall, hasn't appeared scummy to me yet. Also, really, Sept is gonna be dead either way soon.

Note: We CAN use conditionals for night actions. All PR's PLEASE, before tonight with your actions add in the conditional (Do action A on player X, if Septia is killed, do action B on player Y) - I dont know if this will work, but by god its worth a shot.

Its been brought up as I was typing, but IF the princess is in this game It would, simply, give the mafia two sets of night actions - or do nothing. I'm banking on the former.

Overall: Anti-Lynch TODAY

Jebus

Reasons For Lynch

Duplication of a JoaT is hard to stomach. Say's pro raider lynch regardless of alignment. On top of Joat has 2 vig kills (strange). Has used no actions (parially blamed on Empking who, of course, was scummy).

Reasons Against Lynch

Ultimately, if Donkey is lynched and IS town, there isn't going to be room to hide. The Devil IS in the details and the addition of vig kills and nexus, to me, seems unnecessary as a scumclaim.

Overall: Iffy Lynch.

Cerebus

Reasons For Lynch:

Aside from BM (which was an ODD fight), has been fairly mellow. Is claimed as only vanilla, so, ultimately, if telling the truth would be a weak loss. The push on septia, for some reason, bothers me (partially because I think sept is NOT a good lynch for today). Has came up "not human" but is the first one to really say the other main mafia group is going to be werewolves.

Reasons Against Lynch:

Claimed townie gives the most PR ways to find a lie and cause a hang (tracker, rolecop, cop) all would do it. The push about win conditions, really, makes me think both sides honestly have a difference in the win condition.

Overall: Not Lynch

Ok, now for more words. People were curious about full scum groups. There IS a few bouncing through my head (this is NOT assuming a cult).

Scumgroup 1: Cass, Lord Gurgi, Donkey

Liklihood: Fairly Low

Reasoning:

Day starts. I claim she-wolf and Grimmy my cub. LG & Cass decide to mirror it (utilizing the mason part in his claim). Raider claims Alpha-Wolf protector, Donkey claims it knowing the other would also have to claim - also declares rolecop saying Cass to be a cub mason (and initially says town as well).
Mostly suspect due to claim order & donkey's play today.

Scumgroup 2: Jebus, Donkey, Raider

Liklihood: Marginal

Reasoning:

Day starts. After claiming begins, the scum develops a situation where it would be easy to dismiss one of the three as town (Donkey / Jebus being the same role WITH Raider as a protector). This is a ballsy gambit, because chances are two are going to be lynched fairly quickly but, if they eliminate power roles, gives an edge at ultimate lylo.
Mostly suspect due to claim interaction & scummy play.

Scumgroup 3: Septia, Farside, Cerebus

Liklihood: Very Low

Reasoning:

Setpia claims a role that, really, is hard for the town to lynch. Farside claims a cop which, on top of everything else, gets results that do not match the town introducing an element of WTF as for who the scum are. Clears Cerebus of being a human, which still gives them an out if they ARE lynched. Also, I think all three had the "wolf pack" win condition (not sure)?
Mostly suspect because of the cult bidness & beloved princess.

SO.... yet MORE words.

Once Jebus chimes in, I'll decide for sure, but I personally like Donkey or Raider today (surprise!). We'll get a good chunk of information AND there is, to me, a decent chance of scum there.

As for tonight - I'm not directing PR's, but if I was thinkin about what to do... Septia is a REALLY good target for investigations. Of everyone, assuming that their role gives two sets of night actions to scum on death, that is ONE player I want confirmed, one way or the other. NO WIFOM deaths on it. (Notice we've got more than one role that can do investigations, so).

As for our vig shot (if its true)... well.
If you think someone in the she-wolf setup is scum, aim for Cass. If Cass is scum, one of LG and I are and we are a good hang for tomorrow. If you kill one of us, you still risk killing the other pair.
If you think not one of us, use your discretion on the lynch result... or shoot Cerebus.

GOD...I think that covers my thoughts up till now. I'm only a mortal, so please let me know if I'm missing huge things.

@Jebus, since I see you there... what, if you can, is your exact role name?

[SpyreX]

IF Jebus will answer ma poor question, I can really give a direction to move forward.

I'll probably be out for a few hours though.

[SpyreX]

Please dont lynch him until our power roles have chimed in, but, yea.

[SpyreX]

Sweet. Any more new neat roles? I like it.

You're scum. Raider is scum. Easy as pie.

This train havn't breaks.

[SpyreX]

I endorse this endorsement.

Seriously, though. New roles as the day comes on? Breadcrumbing part of your role? The awesome buddying? Being the only person with "consequences" if you actually give your role name but its A-Ok to totally circumnavigate it?

If I could have a new role, I'd be a triplevoter and toss two more on the barbe.

As it is, I would really like the PR's to make sure they've got actions in and then slam this pig shut.

[SpyreX]

Ohh, in genereal, sure, but right now... come on, you know you'd want to give the powerhammer.

[SpyreX]

Thats not hammer, I hope. If it is, HUGE FoS for dropping it before the damn power roles checked in.

[SpyreX]

Hell, I think I'd rather be a dayvig that can save up shots. I'd be blowin the roof off about now.

[SpyreX]

Well, did Donkey vote for himself or is that supposed to say porkens? If the former we hammered, if the latter, then we're ok.

[SpyreX]

Unless you think I somehow claimed cub in my first three posts well, yes, killing you would be confirmation.

I am gone all day, but with Jebus claim we -could- lynch Raider to confirm Donkey today - one way or another, they are now tied together.

[SpyreX]

Good LORD, gone one day and... explode.

@Cass:

Ok, for starters. Yes, See, You and Be are common words. Look at those posts, especially the Be that I had to damn force in there.

As for why I think you and Gurgi are town (I think I've said this before):

1.) We were given the same role.
2.) There ARE two cubs.
3.) LG and I obviously, from the way the last couple days played out, have the same role PM in relation to win condition (which, to me, implies a copy paste).

The third really makes me think Gurgi is town. If you remember that whole village / wolf pack debacle, Gurgi, like me, had village (keep in mind that this happened before any claims). Of course, Gurgi had a WTF moment when -I- claimed she wolf because we had no idea there were two.

Now, when you add that in with the fact I DID breadcrumb the damn role before anyone knew they existed, yes, I believe him. Notice all I asked you is if you were mod-confirmed because that, to me, also clears Gurgi.

Now I said that if someone doesn't believe us (even though I do), shooting you makes sense - you being scum, to me, means that one of us has to be scum. Shooting either LG or I either means the target dies and a 50% chance you die OR we've shot the one that was Grimmy's mother and nothing is known really about the alignment of the other.

Yes, killing you if we're both scum in some amazing precognitive gambit doesn't clear us, but hell, I dont know what to tell you.

KEEP IN MIND I BELIEVE BOTH OF YOU. I do not endorse your lynch today at all. The claims make sense and, knowing my role, the only way either of you are scum is if both of you are scum and, with farside, that would mean you are both black wolves.

Ohh, also, I thought this was clear. I am a one-way lover. Of COURSE it is one sided.

Although, a few questions:

Why, if it doesn't clear either of us, are you going after me far more than LG?
Why, of course, did you assume it was ALL scum on Donkey's wagon?
How would lynching the Alpha, if he was telling the truth, get us the win?
Why would there be 6 scum total in the game?
Why would the black wolves have 4 members, the town two AND your lynch choice being of the smaller group?

@Donkey

Seriously. Be less scummy.

But, with all this, for right now I think you just may, honestly, type before you think.

Of course, with Jebus's claim, I, again: repeat what I said:

If Jebus does NOT say he is the Alpha Wolf, I would say lynch Raider. If, of course, Raider is scum, tomorrow is Donkey's lynch.

Of course, for this "how could I know Cass' role?" If you are a scum rolecop, yes, yes you could.

Regardless, you're now NOT the lynch for today.

@Cerebus

Why, if donkey is town, are me, LG and Jebus scum?

@Jebus

I know I've made some retarded typos, but two into three? Lord.

Now, this is some ModIFOM, but I dont think I've seen a Joat that has multi of not one, but two abilites and THREE vig shots. And, yet, no night actions used.

But, anywho - to the crux of the matter today.

Who to Lynch:

We've got multiple players with some odd conflicts and some in-fighting AND, of course, connections. So, we've got a few different areas to explore.

1.) The She-Wolf Conundrum
a. I believe the She-Wolf Claims
- If you believe both the She-Wolves, we are all good.
-- If you are not sure, but think that LG and I are linked and not prescient, lynch Cass.
--- If you think I am prescient scum, lynch me.
b.)I believe only one of the She-Wolves is telling the truth.
- LG can NOT be a human unless Farside is lying. He is either town or black wolf. If not thinking black wolf, lynch SpyreX
- I breadcrumbed it before anything, so, again, unless I am prescient, LG is the lynch.
c.) I believe neither of the She-Wolves:
- Lynch either of us. At that point it doesn't really matter. If Cass doesn't die, you have to lynch the other. At which point, I believe, you'll be down 3 town!

2.) Alpha Wolf / Alpha Wolf Protector / Wolven Hero Dancing Time
a.) I believe both all three are telling the truth.
- Dance in the dancing place, because I really dont think any of us think that.
b.) I think one of Jebus / Donkey is lying.
- Lynch Raider. If Raider is town, Donkey is most likely town and Jebus has a huge amount of suspicion. If Raider is scum, Donkey IS scum.
c.) I think they're all lying.
- Kill them all, let god sort it out.

3.) Our Beloved Princess
a.) I think she is scum and I believe at least TWO of the power roles.
- If you're sure of scum, lynch. If you are NOT sure, I would suggest multi-investigations tonight.
b.) I think she is town.
- She's dead, rl soon. Our watcher has been used, so I'm not sure what to do.

So, again. I dont think Septia is the right lynch. It is too much risk for too little reward.

Really, it should be either the she-wolf setup OR the alpha-wolf triangle. I, right now, believe the she-wolf setup. If its in the alpha-wolf triangle Raider is the correct lynch, especially since we CAN NOT lose Donkey unless he is lying. Regardless, we lose a dubious power role and, if it is Donkey and Raider as scum, do NOT lose a really powerful power role.

P.S. Jebus, I swear to god you better shoot SOMEONE tonight.

Unvote: Vote Raider

[SpyreX]

Ohh, and if you REALLY dont believe the She-wolves:

LG has been confirmed as "not-human", so, if he turns up human we have a lying cop. If he turns up scum, I am more suspect. If Cass dies on his lynch, I am more town.

I've spearheaded lynches on D1 and D2. The one lynch I didn't spearhead was, actually a wolf. From that I would be more suspect. If Cass dies on my lynch, LG is more town. If I am scum, LG is more suspect.

So, there ya go.

[SpyreX]

Spyrex, I'm willing to assume you are honest for now. I'm less sure of Gurgi. He has seemed scummy to me for a long time and he's really buddying up to you now. He could easily have copied your claim, it wasn't hard to conclude there were two cubs. Yes, this would make him either a black wolf or Farsides buddy.

I don't think I said that? Five was my highest estimate, I think. Right now, I thnik it's five or maybe four. (I don't even want to think about cults.)

I didn't see that Coheed was one of your wolf calls. Sorry.

Yes, it isn't hard to conclude there is two cubs - which, considering my role, doesn't make me think twice about there being two mothers. Especially since I had evidence of similarities in our roles before the claim (you, also, having village helps that).

SpyreX, you keep changing who is the lynch for the day and granted you have faithful followers I hope you are town otherwise it should be an easy game for you to win. Killing me removes protection from the Alpha. All you do with my death is confirm the Alpha but not even then as I have not investigated him so please reconsider the information you can get from it. I say let me investigate tonight, report tomorrow and then when I go out you have some information.

You know, I'd take you a lot more seriously if you just said I think you are scum. How much vote jumping have I had today? I'll give you a hint - you and donkey who have both tied yourselves together and, really, I dont believe it.

Killing you CONFIRMS the damn Alpha, in about the only way I'd really believe at this point. He also has his own BP, so its not like I'm confirming him to have him die tonight. It ALSO gives us scum in Jebus.

If that wasn't enough to see why, IF you are scum, we do NOT kill our useful power role today - that leaves the scum with letting either the Joat / Cop alive.

farside investigates me.
I rolecop donkeyz, and track raider.
Donkeyz tracks farside.

So.. you get two night actions? I dont remember this being brought up before.
Also, this plan has multiple ways of falling apart:
1.) Farside gets NK'd
2.) Donkey gets RB'd
3.) Both the above happen.
4.) If YOU are a SCUM WOLF, you're results are about as easy as you can get AND Farside would get a non-human on you.

But, if we're laying out plans:
- Lynch Raider
- Farside Investigates Jebus
- Donkey Tracks Septia
- Jebus Vig's (Donkey if Raider is scum / ?(Cass / Cerebus / Porkens) if Raider is town)

My reasons.
1.) Raider lynch determines Donkey's alignment.
2.) Farside investigates: Not Donkey, Septia or Jebus.
3.) Donkey makes sure Septia has no night actions (if she does, lynch). As he has claimed BP, he can not be killed so.
4.) If Raider is scum, Jebus makes use of an ability before he's killed. If Raider is town, Jebus will only have any chance of clearing himself with a vig shot - I am NOT going to buy scum vig and, in other games, vig flavor was different.

Instead of focusing on one area, lets pull as much information out of the mess as possible.

Septia IS NOT the lynch for today. There's a dozen ways to check out someone who has proclaimed no night actions. We get no further information from the lynch on other players and, if the role is true, we just hurt ourselves.

Thoughts?

[SpyreX]

What is the assumation of two NK's?

I'm pretty sure Donkey said he still has his BP.

I am NOT lynching Septia today. If the town is sure for, whatever reason, that Donkey and Raider are town (whcih I'm not) - I would vote for Jebus.

[SpyreX]

Edit - Which I'm not convinced of.

[SpyreX]

If Jebus is hung and is scum, I'd be more inclined to believe you.

But, hell, I've thoguht you two were scummy ALL game and you two on claim-day walk hand-in-hand with a role that protects the other that already has protection?

Yea, for some reason that is hard to swallow.

[SpyreX]

Yep, I've bought into it. Thats why I'm saying to CONFIRM it.

Ok, lets try it like this.
If you and Donkey are town:
Lynching you, proves that the power role is town.
If you and Donkey are scum:
Lynching you, proves that Donkey is scum handing us two scum.

ON THE OTHER SIDE:
If Septia is scum:
We get a scum, no other real information is given.
If Septia is town:
We lose a day AND if the conditional doesn't work, mafia kills two (or 3) towns.

Notice how, of the 4 scenarios above, only one has absolute negative consequences for the town? Notice how I'm steering away from that and, of course, trying to confirm it BEFORE we lynch.

[SpyreX]

My first line was sarcasm, just in case.

[SpyreX]

Raider - we've all claimed. All your night action would do is confrim what, really, would happen from your lynch.

Yea, I'm being more conservative in wanting the real power roles to live to do something. Also banking against lynching Septia today.

I am lynching either Raider or Jebus. I'd prefer Raider.

[SpyreX]

Well, with that, maybe taking the damn vote off would be a good start.

I dont see why, with the chance to garner information, we're going after a role that is either 1 scum with no connections or potentially LOSING THE GAME.

Come on now

[SpyreX]

I've been saying Septia is a bad lynch for today, because of reasons just like this.

YES, there is a definite chance they are scum, but if they are not, we are setting up a situation where we lose.

This, again, is why I wanted roles to confirm Septia.

This is NOT a nightless game, it is just a game where there's no time elapse for night actions. We can put the conditionals in, so there is a chance that that is how the maf would operate. There is, of course, also a chance that the mod would have just said "Ok, scum, give me another night action."

If Septia is scum we will find out. However, if they are town we are risking the game by lynching them today.

I'd rather find out more about people who have went hand-in-hand with other players.

[SpyreX]

Porkens claims vanilla (no loss) and is protecting Septia who I think her/ his claim is BS.

Town is still a loss. I've also said, earlier than Porkens, that Setpia is a bad lynch for today. Does that mean we're all scum?

Furthermore, IF Septia is scum and Porkens is playing conservative, like I am, when he flips town what are you going to do? Lynch Septia? That'd be kinda hypocritical. Not Lynch Septia? Well, she could easily be scum - thats why I want actions, not lynch, on her.

I'm going to say it: I would put money on Porkens being town at this point.

Now, for another revelation. Raider, for the first time all game, is making sense. Enough for me to think that he and donkey may be town and Jebus the scum.

Unvote, Vote Jebus

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch before deadline)
(4) Jebus – Cass, cerebus3, raider8169, SpyreX
(3) raider8169 – Lord Gurgi, Porkens
(1) Septia – donkeyz12212
(1) donkeyz12212 – Jebus
(1) Porkens – farside22

Not voting:

, Septia

Deadline:

Saturday 9 August 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[SpyreX]

P.S. Donkey, track Septia.

[SpyreX]

Well, we should get SOMETHING on Septia now. Thats all I damn wanted instead of "hey, if we're wrong, we lose RIGHT NOW"

[SpyreX]

With the power of MATHMATICS, I think we've hammered?

[SpyreX]

Let us come together and hold hands as the sun sets, for, in mere moments the darkness will be upon us.

One shall never open their eyes again.

They will be missed.

*insert bagpipes here*

[SpyreX]

Maybe we need something a little more up-tempo.

WHY CANT WEE BE FRIENDS WHY CANT WE BE FRIENDS WHY CANT WE BE FRIENDS


WHY CANT WE BE FRIENDS

[SpyreX]

Great job scum! Didn't send in your night action apparently.
Who could that have been?

Vote Septia

Reports would be cool too.

[SpyreX]

Simupost for win

[SpyreX]

Cerebus: If donkey got hit, we lynch raider. Raider was supposed to take the hit.

Septia: You've got a great scumclaim role, dead most of yesterday, the scum didn't kill AND with the SK gone now is a great time to, well, eliminate the issue of your role.

And there's a good chance you're scum.

[SpyreX]

The only other scenarios, assuming everyone is telling the truth about their roles:

1.) They went after Jebus
2.) They hit Donkey, but it absorbed his BP (and didn't kill Raider)

[SpyreX]

Oh wow, the mafia is clearly a very experience player that knows what they're doing. They knew I was getting tracked tonight. The kill was most definitely not sent in purposely, to frame me.

Possible, especially if there are no more humans left.

However, like Porkens said, even if you're town now, with a killing faction gone, is the time to take you out.

Role is too scary to live.

[SpyreX]

If there are more anti-werewolves than we expected and we mislynch, they will kill you tonight and get another cycle and 50% chance of killing 2 more town which means, we lose.

At least if we kill you in the worst case we dont just explode.

a 4 person scum group, an SK, two pairs of one way lovers, AND a princess? sounds really balanced against the town...

Also, this.

[SpyreX]

If we mislynch today, either way, town loss. Thats why I dont buy it.

[SpyreX]

Ready for a PLAN

Cerebus, vote Septia

Septia, if you are town, vote yourself.

NEXT PERSON IN HAMMER.

If too much time elapses, then we have a real day. We have a good setup for a quicklynch though which could really screw up maf plans.

[SpyreX]

(Unless we have a lurker) if the maf gets their kills in, we sure know where to look too.

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(3) Septia – SpyreX, Porkens, Lord Gurgi

Not voting:

Cass, cerebus3, donkeyz12212, farside22, raider8169, Septia,

Deadline:

Wednesday 13 August 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[SpyreX]

There you go, Cerebus, Septia, vote and vote fast.

:hitting f5 a lot:

[SpyreX]

Nope, I think you're committed to our plan now.

Cerebus, even if you dont trust us, unless you think there is 3 maf - this plan makes sense. Its gonna be Septia that I bet holds out.

[SpyreX]

Ohh well, look at that.

[SpyreX]

Ok, Septia, if you are town, hammer yourself. Of course, either way you're dead now.

[SpyreX]

Seriously. NO ONE else is on from our game (unless its in the 5 hidden llike Cerebus. )

So, if maf gets actions, it is one of us.

[SpyreX]

I WANT them to miss an entire day. In a twisted way, this could be about the best thing for town ever. The fact that Septia isn't being a helper is scumtell, TM.

[SpyreX]

How does doing this not help the town?

If you're telling the truth, I'm sorry you got a shitty role but this is about THE BEST POSSIBLE use of it.

[SpyreX]

I know. If she was town and there is NK's, its about a 97% chance it is one of us. So, hell, win the game right here.

[SpyreX]

Lets see if we can get to 50 pages of telling Septia that its in the towns best interest. UNLESS WE ALL 4 ARE SKUMZ OHH NOES

[SpyreX]

Every minute this goes on makes me sadder and sadder. We hold the keys to the best quicklynch ever but the damn door keeps moving away.

[SpyreX]

GOD, I'm smoking. Maybe taking 3 minutes away will make this hammer happen.

[SpyreX]

Because, you realize that if any of us are scum... we cant even utilize your ability to get any NK's or we would be sacrificing ourselves.

[SpyreX]

Well, regardless of what happens at this point, Septia is getting hung - the filibustering just makes me think we have another scum.

Also, Town++ points for the four of us.

[SpyreX]

Septia for MVP!

[SpyreX]

or for Scum, whichever.

[SpyreX]

...Can maf call in the kill order for someone else on their team?

[SpyreX]

Well, if they cant and there is a kill, one of us is scum. If they can, well, it puts some question in.

[SpyreX]

So, who should us band of brothers, who have withstood the storm, kill tomorrow?

I'm thinkin Raider.

[SpyreX]

I honestly doubt he's gonna tell us that. But, who knows.

I think, either way, we've got this puppy won now.

[SpyreX]

Of course, if that is the case... he's dead when the alpha dies.

[SpyreX]

I snuck out of bed for this.

Vote Raider

Night all

[SpyreX]

Ohh this game was a hoot.

I'll give the scum mad props for the claims. Raider, your claim worked pretty solid. Septia, even in this setup the timing of yours really helped.

I still like how I was 2/3 on day 2 with my scumradar.

I'm still not sure Donkey isn't scum though.

Although I think the Band of Brothers gets the secret MVP.

Joohoo, again, if you run another one, please hook me up. I LOVE these swift games.

[SpyreX]

I think Septia was boned at that point - only Raider coming in would have helped him.

[SpyreX]

Yea, killing Grimmy (and him being the cub) is what really tipped it for me to push for the massclaim which, of course, led to victory.

I do like how massclaim day it was either Raider or Jebus - win/win for us.

[SpyreX]

Saying you were an Alpha protector before he claimed Alpha was a great move. I think if it had went the other way I would have been really hesitant on believing you.

Funny thing is that with the way the claims went out - I was pretty solid on the vanillas.

What WAS Jebus going to do that night? I'd love to see his thought process as that day went on.