Tales of You (Endgame)

[Titan]

CF </3

Don't you try to butter up to me now when you've broken my heart!

[Titan]

I will lynch one of: mastin, ap, desbro

Strike first, strike hard, no mercy sir

(This also applies to kagura holy fuck have they done anything town yet! Geeze)

[Titan]

I don't understand why mastin's read to bet the game on town me.

Oh but earlier I was thinking in context of chosen and thought maybe for weird aggression? Stil.

[Titan]

INTERMISSION

listen

[Titan]

Screw it, I'll call Titan conftown. And I'm eliminating Red Gyarados for the time being. (Still want more ns, though. And BS, for that matter.) And let's take Kats out for the heck of it.

You make me want to vote these people.

Dooooooo eeeeeeeeet

Wa wa wa wait. Why does this make you want to vote for his town reads? Do you not want to vote for him..

[Titan]

Deal with it

CF </3

Don't you try to butter up to me now when you've broken my heart!

You break my heart everytime you *twitch* at me. I got over it. You'll get over it.

What if I don't

[Titan]

Thanks ffery, that makes more sense. The link ffery posted has role stoppers as not stopping kills. But I wouldn't bet the farm on that because how would Bork know that's why it failed? It has to be something else.

I missed your previous post. Ya, Mastin is specc'ing that Bork was rolestopped (and also the NK which is why Mac died). The wiki page said a rolesop may or may not work on kills. Im guessing that a BG/Stopper would probably NOT block kills cause that is self defeating.

Ya Bork was really weird about the situation though so I think this Mac-rolestopping-Kagura theory is not the only explanation for why I failed. I dont think its that worth specc'ing on cause the conclusion that mastin is trying to reach (Kagura was the NK) cannot be proven either way regardless.

But duh, bg role stopper means something different. Just tspha but idk.

[Titan]

Maybe they are town, maybe this is town!bork, but it's not unheard of that someone decides they're going to really try to put forth the effort and has the scum game of their lives even without practice.

Can we fucking kick this in the ass because you've been kinda weaving this suspicion of me all game in the form of this mild paranoia and I have no idea why.

-b

What is your problem? You don't feel anything like vesperia when I was paranoid and you were reassuring, here you feel annoyed and weird like you did in we the purple.

Why shouldn't I be paranoid of you? What are you doing? Who do you think is scum? Who do you think is town? Where do you stand on anything? Because what it feels like I'd the inly thing you did was give reasons for mastin town and that's it, and quite frankly if this is what gets you a skate in every game im unimpressed.

This is not transparent town. I should not keep on forgetting you exist. Like seriously Bork if it weren't for nacho being your other head, I wouldn't be glued here and therefore I wouldn't even remember you're playing, that's a problem.

Also for four squares, I'm not the only one worried about you, why aren't you signaling there too?

[Titan]

What if I don't

I will come into your garden, plant ten amazing species of plants and flowers, bring you a copy of Wicked, and braid your hair while you read. If you don't get over it then, I'll write you off as a lost cause.

[Titan]

Okay so for red guards yes, their disappearance sucks, but notscience recently diappeated as town in my wicked game. He also disappeared as town in our pyp game.

I don't think the disappearing is alignment relevant no matter his meta for the moment, what matters s his attitude from here on out,

Also also I can totes see his push against nacho as in both recent games nacho was scum and n's tried to give him a chance and got burned,

Pedit:lol

[Titan]

So I realized a couple of things recently.

-Fox/Hound asked what sparked the change in my attitude. Now, I thought it was because of the thoughts I had, but while all of what I said was true, I think what made it stick, what made it possible, was that between meds and therapy, my mental health is slightly improving.

-Really random, but I know why AP's casting a suspicious eye on me but not voting me. It's really simple. To get complete, total, absolute revenge, a set of criteria must be met:

• I must be a BP. (Check.)
  
• I must be obvtown. (Check.)
  
• I must have good (perhaps perfect) reads. (...Check? I'm working on it.)
  
• I must have players supporting me be nightkilled. (Check.)
  
• I must have players that have had heated debates against me live. (Check.)
  
• I must be the top poster or among them. (Check.)
  
• I must have had a screaming, shouting match. (Check.)
  
• I must be a voice of reason in spite of the above. (Check.)
  
• I must have been aggressive. (Check.)
  
• I must have also held arrogance that I was not getting lynched, but be bewildered and slightly concerned at it happening. (Check and sorta-check, but good enough.)

...But mostly?

• It must be D3. (Thus, the lack of push from him today.)
  
• Bonus points if he enters a 1v1 with me, especially citing his role and him getting 'roleblocked' N1.

(First realization serious. Second one only semi-so.)

/content to come in a bit.

Um...

[Titan]

Wa wa wait. CF says before we go ahead with a lynch he'd like to see kagura a thoughts. Does that mean that not only is he not sharing any freaking thoughts in thread, but he's not in the neighborhood either..

Like really is this what gets Bork notoriously town read in every game ever! Because now I'm offended at my mislynch rate if this is the case.

[Titan]

VOTE: kagura

WILL THIS MAKE YOU DO SOMETHING??!

[Titan]

Can we just lynch kagura, ap, mastin, whoever in that order.

Also cupcake do you really not have a scum read?

[Titan]

To clarify, Nacho last posted yesterday morning saying that he thought scum was among MastinSSK, AP, Clyton, Orc, and PV. I was waiting to hear updated thoughts mostly.

Oh, btw, did you get a good read on Clyton in the neighborhood?

What were bork's reads?

not yet. Clyton and I claimed to each other. But he hasn't been around much and neither have I. I asked him what he thought of Mastin yesterday, and he said he was catching up. I haven't heard from him since.

but i'm interested in something and how it plays out.

oh but there was one thing that interested me. during yesterday's cagefight, LB claimed pretty readily. Did anyone else realize that Breakfast never claimed during that affair? That seems like it would have been the natural impetus for people to do.

[Titan]

Is Nacho posting in the neighborhood and NOT in here? That's problematic as far as I'm concerned because Bork is NOT DOING ANYTHING WORTH A SHIT.

Nacho's been drawing scum roles out the wazzoo and I would think if he'd finally drawn a town role, he'd be here having the time of his life, BUT HE'S NOT.

I just don't understand why anyone thinks they are town.

[Titan]

If you guys think Im this stupid then I really REALLY cant help you.

I was hoping to catch CF in a lie about his role. And

yes I got a result on Kagura

.

VOTE: AP

Why did it bother you that ap got a result on kagura?

I'm pretty sure you did not answer this. I'm pretty sure I want it answered.

Fox and hound.

[Titan]

Is Nacho posting in the neighborhood and NOT in here? That's problematic as far as I'm concerned because Bork is NOT DOING ANYTHING WORTH A SHIT.

Nacho's been drawing scum roles out the wazzoo and I would think if he'd finally drawn a town role, he'd be here having the time of his life, BUT HE'S NOT.

I just don't understand why anyone thinks they are town.

This was a bit abrasive of me. This goes against zen me who thinks games should not be hostile and toxic, for that I apologize as I am trying to change my part in making games unpleasant. The sentiment behind it, however, remains.

[Titan]

Falcon I read your posts and do have sone thoughts but they will have to wait until tomorrow. It's nearly five and I can't keep my eyes open, blame lilysnd shadoweh for keeping me awake so late last night! Anyway im about to pass out, so yeah.

[Titan]

I ended up not having time today and I'm about to crash, so tomorrow.

Clyton and I haven't talked a whole bunch in the neighborhood. I have a leaning town read though.

[Titan]

To clarify, Nacho last posted yesterday morning saying that he thought scum was among MastinSSK, AP, Clyton, Orc, and PV. I was waiting to hear updated thoughts mostly.

Oh, btw, did you get a good read on Clyton in the neighborhood?

Just skimming for right now, but are you not in the Titan/Clyton neighborhood?

It's been discussed and corrected more than once that he creates the neighborhoods but is not in them (except for his world).

Though Clyton did mention thinking we had a lurker, I don't know why he thought that.

[Titan]

Also, if anyone could think I'm still scum at this point, I don't know what to tell them. Like, I don't want to chalk things up to personal bias against me b/c I'm a dick, etc, but I'd be at a loss for any other explanation for anyone voting me at this point.

Why did you say this at the start of the day when there were no votes on you?

[Titan]

What were bork's reads?

not yet. Clyton and I claimed to each other. But he hasn't been around much and neither have I. I asked him what he thought of Mastin yesterday, and he said he was catching up. I haven't heard from him since.

but i'm interested in something and how it plays out.

oh but there was one thing that interested me. during yesterday's cagefight, LB claimed pretty readily. Did anyone else realize that Breakfast never claimed during that affair? That seems like it would have been the natural impetus for people to do.

Bork didn't post a reads-list but he seemed to lean town on RedGyarados. He was also scumreading PV on D1. I don't know any of his other reads.

I didn't expect Breakfast to claim because I assumed that the lynch was going to be LB (especially with LB himself advocating his lynch) and Breakfast was just there as filler.

There are a few different ways I've been looking at this game. The most obvious one that I think is most likely is what I was pushing for most of the game: Mastin, Rancid, and AP are scum with an unknown fourth member who fooled me decently well that isn't you, BRO-Desp, Yggdra, RG, Fox, PV, or Orc. I am not sure if Kagura will fit into this worldview. Nacho showing up at deadline to completely derail a wagon on a scumbuddy would be a pretty ballsy move. He's only done it with townies before, never fellow scum. Also, his usual interactions with zMuffin as scum-scum is to lightly distance but not TRULY push for the lynch of the lynch of the other the way they did in NY169. This is one of the reasons I called bussing hard on Mastin and AP (because of how they left the outs to lynch PV). My concern that two scum wagons would end up in a town lynch was largely based on Wicked where Nacho and I were wagoned along with UT and T-Bone hydra with the lynch somehow turning onto town-BRO. We all commented on it in the scum QT as well. That's exactly what I was worried would happen with Mastin and AP making a ton of noise but neither getting lynched and lurkertown was deadline lynched instead.

Another worldview is that Nacho and ffery are scum (either one of them or both of them). This is a little weaker but I wouldn't completely rule out ffery not voting at all on Mastin but happily voting BRO at deadline. (As an aside, I know you suspect them but you'd know there is not a chance they are scum if you see the neighborhood thread so I am basically assuming they are town and seeing who votes them). I also wouldn't rule out Breakfast being the last scum along with Mastin/Rancid/AP either. But there are a few things that heavily made me lean town on ffery so I am holding back. And her explanation that she didn't want to lynch Nati's townread in order to save him isn't a bad one either.

A third one involves getting behind Mastin and Rancid completely. I am not sure I can do this but if I do, I am still seeing AP as a scum that Mastin/Rancid caught. The other scum are apparently the low-hanging fruit like PV, maybe Orc. But I have a superstrong townread on PV so I am not sure I buy it. I could still buy Mastin/Rancid town being wrong about PV.

Overall, I can sense some movements in the game that would happen if Rancid and Mastin are town. Specifically Nacho's whiteknighting of Rancid. But it is harder to see Kagura-scum, Rancid-town because Rancid was pretty hard-townreading Kagura and I figured if they were town, they'd have some inkling that Kagura was scum. How likely is Kagura to fit in with a Mastin/Rancid/AP team? Do you think there is still merit to the idea of those three being a team or Mastin and Rancid distancing?

All I am sure of is that this game is not easy. It is not a game that we're going to win by lynching lurkers - PV/Orc etc and everytime Mastin or Nacho bring up the idea that the low hanging fruit/lurkergroup contain scum, it brings up massive glaring red flags. One thing I am convinced is that scum aren't among the players that are easy to lynch and if they were so, this is not the gamestate that we would have ended up at this point.

Okay so this game went to a stall...

I'm still concerned about desp/bro, and I know meltdown yada yada but what I'm concerned about is if you look at BRO in Wicked when he was run up and compare it to here, it just doesn't feel the same. Yeah, I know I was the mod so I saw it through a different lens but when we were talking about things in the dead qt, he mentioned that his survivalism is tied to the gamestate and he is more likely to care about being lynched as scum than as town, so on the whole the meltdown makes me wonder. (And this is what I'm refering to about feeling like complete shit if he's telling the truth or if there was just something really going on in his life that impacted how he felt in games.) I'd probably feel like it was more genuine from someone who legitimately cares about being mislynched than as someone who generally doesn't get so worked up about it.

I...don't know what to think about Mastin or AP. Mastin sometimes gives me the feeling of hpaptl but everything is just so over the top. I'd probably be okay with that lynch just because it's been such a distraction and it might help to clear up rancid's alignment. There are a few things that still bug me about rancid, so yeah I don't know there.

I don't know. I feel kinda lost. I want notscience/brian skies to do something so I can stop being worried about them. I thought they were going to start doing stuff this weekend, but that fizzled. I was nacho/bork to do something so I can stop being worried about them. Ffery has said some things that I'd be pretty shocked if it came from scum. I'd be surprised if you were scum. Clyton and I claimed to each other, and the use of his role is compatible with his behavior. Scum will know my role if he's scum, but if that's the case it's really no big deal. I don't really get the super strong town read on PV. I'm more than a little concerned about Orci, and right now I'm a little worried that Nacho orchestrated that lynch on Orci yesterday knowing that he would self-govern. Also, now his proven gladiator type fight makes me concerned about Rancid. I mean I get it there can be multiple roles and lolcabd game so I'm not going to outguess the mod, but would there be two gladiator-type town roles?

Ugh I don't feel good. I'm going to go lie down. If this headache disappears, I'll try to finish my thoughts.

[Titan]

Wait a minute. Nacho has mastin in his potential scum pool? I thought he had a town read there.

[Titan]

And governor is a town role.

Hi! Cabd game, there's more to it than x is a town role.

I've been a scum self-governor, and mattp was a scum self governor in Baltomeet.

[Titan]

Okay falcon.

I should probably also note my activity might be spotty the next few weeks. End of the semester for me too. Much like the beginning of semesters, I never know how they'll go, but I typically use mafia as a way to take a break during grading so my activity might just be normal.

[Titan]

Mastin - when I say lolcabd game it means I'm not about to outguess what he would or wouldn't do. I mean I'll wonder about it, but I'm not going to go aha one has to be scum! He designs more complex setups than that whole thing. I take a somewhat similar approach to faraday games. Using common sense is fine, saying the mod will do x isn't here.

[Titan]

Maybe it's an artifact of where your focus currently is, but I feel like there's a whole game going on here, not just those 3 players.

I'm trying to move up a few thousand feet in terms of how I'm viewing the game, because I'm kinda tired of talking to the same people with the same disagreements and agreements constantly.

From my perspective, it's not moving the game forward. And I don't think anything is going to seriously move the game forward until more players are really engaged today.

Of course there is a whole game going on and I didn't direct my wall at you so I have no idea why you would be tired of talking about it. I particularly don't like posts like these where you discourage analysis or look down upon town players working with each other.

I have been moving the game forward by collaborating with townreads and making sure we lynch one of Mastin/AP today. I really don't want this to turn into yet another noisy day where Mastin and AP make a spectacle of themselves and we lynch another lurker. My objective is to make sure we drive one of their lynches through today and I need you on my side if you are town.

I'm on town's side. And I obviously think that means we're on the same side.

I'm not trying to discourage analysis at all, and in fact your criticisms (and tammy's) on day 1 about my typical play were noted and internalized. How that manifests in my in-thread behavior, I don't know yet. I probably won't know what I'm actually doing differently as opposed to what I'm thinking until I get feedback about it in games.

Whoever we vote today aside, there are other reads to solidify today. I guess what's frustrating me is that you're talking about 3 players I think are town. Of the three, the only one I have even the slightest niggle about at the moment is Titan and it's a very small niggle that I feel pretty sure comes down to playstyle/philosophy.

The bit about the same disagreements over and over is a general whine not directed at you.

Just out of curiosity's sake, I'd love to know what that niggle is.

[Titan]

And governor is a town role.

Hi! Cabd game, there's more to it than x is a town role.

I've been a scum self-governor, and mattp was a scum self governor in Baltomeet.

You weren't in Baltimore meet game. Stalker!

And Axxle was a town self governor in Reckoning conversely :p

Heh...well at least I didn't barge into that one and I remained the creepy peeping Tammy behind the windows where I belonged :p

Oh, I didn't know that about axle.

[Titan]

Orc's role does somewhat clash but I'm scumreading Rancid so I am not overly worried about it. What about Orcinus concerned you beyond the possibility that Nacho bussed?

Mostly the concern that he bussed.

[Titan]

Mastin's posts from last night are rubbing me the wrong way.

I think I'm going to take a nap, I'll respond to falcons bro wall later.

[Titan]

That's never been the pattern in the first place. If someone is reading me wrong, then I question their other reads and their understanding of the gamestate. If Mastin is town, then her understanding of the game state is warped by her misreading me.

this is pretty dumb considering townies have misread townies in every game of mafia ever

I don't think that's what she's saying. She's saying she doubts Mastin's understanding of the game because he's misreading her, and though it can take you in the wrong direction it's a pretty natural stance to have. It's a similar way she viewed taking seriously Nacho's reads when Nacho tried to put together a scum team with greyice on it in Tales of the Abyss when she had role information that pointed to GI town.

[Titan]

In detail-Given the posting activity in your neighborhood, the Titan/Clyton inactivity is very bothersome. If they feel the other is town, I'd expect a report on the ideas and reads they bounced off each other. If one suspected the other, for whatever reason, I'd expect to hear that also. The fact that neither has come forward to say ANYTHING regarding their neighborhood makes me suspect both of them, when I had them both as townreads.

This is preposterous. I have given what I've said about the neighborhood and beyond what I've said, it's none of anyone's business. And considering the way you treated your neighborhoods in marketplace 3 as secret entities, I'm really surprised you're posturing about this.

And to compare it to the other neighborhood, which has been in existence for two weeks longer than the one I have, at a time when both of us aren't very active in thread, and i stated at the beginning of the day I wouldn't be doing anything with mafia for a few days is silly. Not only that to suspect us both is ludicrous.

They are not giving detailed reports from their neighborhoods and no one is asking them to, what is yours and mastin's fixation on mine?

[Titan]

Since when did you have me as a town read? I thought the last you said about me you could only somewhat see what I said as town???

[Titan]

No, I'm not following into the pattern of distrusting people whose reads disagree with mine.

That's never been the pattern in the first place. If someone is reading me wrong, then I question their other reads and their understanding of the gamestate. If Mastin is town, then her understanding of the game state is warped by her misreading me.

My stances right now are clearly fucked until I figure out Mastin. Part of me just wants her gone and flipped so that I can course adjust or carry on. But that wish goes against my entire approach to mafia and I hate that I'm thinking that way in this game.

[Titan]

I was going to vote mastin, but I suddenly skimmed the last two pages (although don't plan on reading much of it until later) and happened upon things that pretty much trashed my resolve.

Although: Mastin, is there any other game where you were simply "too mean" to be scum?

Before I get into the rest of the stuff, let me just point out this. Aside from my lack of paranoia on Nacho and assuring others that Nacho would be townreading me, there is literally nothing.
NOTHING.

In my posting.

That I can buy.
Even remotely.

A town Nacho not townreading. Those two things (which are arguably the same thing) are literally the only damn thing in my play that could possibly have pinged Nacho on me, at all. Yet this? This says otherwise. That he's either nulling me or deeply concerning (even scumreading) me. Which quite frankly, I don't buy. From BROseidon who (after this game) will have a Fate-reading-RECK card on me, sure, yeah, I can buy that type of misread. From Nacho?

Fuck no, I won't. That he doesn't have the townread is itself a red flag.

But even then. Let's assume. Just for a fraction of a second. That somehow. He thinks this could possibly. Even remotely. Be a scum me. Being willing to take that to a vote? Especially when I'm the lead wagon? Also not a town-Nacho behavior. ESPECIALLY with a lack of interaction before-hand! Nacho showing concern for me as town? Interacts with me. If he is sure I'm scum after that interaction, vote. Never a moment before.

But let's say that he did. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, there.
There's the fact that he says the last two pages of my spewing has given him doubt-on-scumread. Which is bullshit, since the last two pages of me has been quite frankly the most nulled content I've been posting in a long time. The towniest aspects in the posting are things that have existed not only for the entirety of P3 of my iso, not only the entirety of today, but ALSO of my play throughout the game. So the reason for not voting me isn't valid, either.

Lack of correct read. Lack of interaction. Lack of proper reasoning, of the right chain of thought.

That is not a town Nacho. The bit at the end is thrown in as essentially an after-thought. Something like that, asked earlier and throughout the game? Yeah, town-him. Right now? No.

This felt town.

[Titan]

So, pere, what you're saying is is that I have reported activity from the neighborhood. Oh you see silly me I thought your point that I hadn't reported ANYTHING from the neighborhood was you thinking I hadn't reported anything from the neighborhood. I suppose your dictionary has not anything meaning something different than mine.

I have never, not even in that quote you say I did, give a full town read on Clyton. In fact, if you read my posts you'll note the strength of my town read this far go like "would be shocked if they were scum". That's not a ringing town read endorsement for anything.

And no context nancy, I looked up how nacho behaved in tales of the abyss neighborhood to see if MASTIN'S assumptions on nachos behavior held up. Ie did he tell Bork to go to their hydra qt to discuss reads because he mistrusted his neighbors and therefore that made him town.

And yes, you did keep your neighborhood activity a secret in marketplace.

I really couldn't care what your updated read on me is. The gobbledygook you've spewed today is enough for me not to take you seriously anyway.

[Titan]

Like seriously I also in that quote that you cut in which "I give a full townread" I didn't actually give, I say I'm interested in something and seeing how it pans out.

I'm actually pretty weirded out over the concern about my neighborhood though the other neighborhood is of no concern, especially since "we were town reads" supposedly. If pere is scum there is more than op likely scum in that neighborhood.

[Titan]

Unless pere is scum with Clyton and he's trying to show interest to look town even though he knows what's been said.

[Titan]

Wait.

Actually pere might have town slipped. Hang on I need to check something.

[Titan]

He did mess up falcons role. He thought falcon was in the neighborhoods he set up.

Well, I might try to see where he's coming from if he could make sense, but the way that's going I'm not sure.

I think he did town slip though. We don't have a quick topic for our neighborhood, but the answer he have me about Clyton thinking that we had a lurker was for a quick topic. On the assumption that cabd is using ms private topics for everything, pere giving me that answer thinking I was in a quick topic means it's likely he's not in one because then he would have known that you can't just look at unique views and why I didn't understand why he thought there was a lurker. So, if a member of the scum team could verify if you have a quick topic that would be very helpful thanks!

[Titan]

He's full town reading m, that much I know.

I asked him for his name, but told him he didn't have to claim, I was just interested in who he was. We briefly talked about tales of xillia. Hehe full claimed to me. I full claimed to him in return. My full claiming doesn't mean I had him as full town. I quite clearly said I was interested in seeing how it pans out. I also quite clearly said that even if the scum team now know my role it doesn't matter a bunch.

[Titan]

Um.

Um.

UM.

how do you know rancid caught their VIG crumb?

[Titan]

He didn't say qt. he said look at the number of unique views. They don't exist in an ms private topic as it's just like a regular thread, hence me not understanding why Clyton thought we had a lurker.

It's not impossible and I wouldn't bet the game on it, but using the private topic is a markedly different experience than the quick topic.

[Titan]

[Titan]

Then take your own goddamn advice about confbias.

I feel like this is one of those things empire would point out to me after the game and say it came from a town ffery.

I'm still learning, but I feel like it's one of them.

[Titan]

Mastin's posts to ffery last night remind me of his posts to me in Attack on Titan. I imagine I frustrated him because I didn't give him much he could argue against as I was scum reading his slot merely because the game just made more sense to me if he was scum.

His tone and frustration feels similar.

[Titan]

UNVOTE:

[Titan]

LOL

[Titan]

Why pray tell did you have a town read on me before if I'm not providing content?

I'd be happy to claim to the entire damn thread. It makes no difference to me.

[Titan]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

[Titan]

You know what Peregrine. I'm not going to respond to you. I've already answered the questions you're asking me. And quite frankly I feel like you're just trying to look busy. I would maybe make an effort to explain myself to you but we saw how well that turned out in the Board Game. I quite frankly don't have the time or patience to deal with your apparent inability to see that the questions you've asked have already been answered.

My ISO is awesome in terms of scumhutning, but hey baby cakes glass houses.

but in case i wasn't clear. I'D CLAIM TO THE ENTIRE DAMN THREAD. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SCUM KNOW WHAT I AM. I WAS INTERESTED IN SEEING HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

[Titan]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Because none of that makes any sense, especially with this:

Breakfast With Stalin (1): CupcakePanda

Read the fucking thread.

Geezuz fucking Christ.

[Titan]

Also, I don't know if I should be insulted or complimented that peregrine of all people claimed my iso is awful in terms of scum hunting.

[Titan]

Player Roster:
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
3 Yggdra Union (giffy and pieguyn) 3 Yukari Yakumo
4 orcinus_theoriginal
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16)
11 Lord Business
12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
14 Cupcake Panda
15 PeregrineV
16 Clyton
17 Mac


The Not so Living:

Spoiler: Show

Lord Business, who was Kreed Grafyte, Town Sealed Persona-Roleblocker*, was lynched day one.
Mac, who was Ricardo Soldato, Town Paranoid Bodyguard*, was Killed Night 1

Rancid Broderick Drake, ???, was Killed Night 1

NOW I'M FUCKING AMAZING.

[Titan]

pedit
Why are people still talking about townslips?

I don't have ANY private topics. Period. I have QTs. Period. You can see # of unique views at the bottom. Period.

You make me want to beat my head agains the freaking wall.

Like do you read every word or sentence in a post? This is a serious question. A really serious question.

[Titan]

You know what Peregrine. I'm not going to respond to you. I've already answered the questions you're asking me. And quite frankly I feel like you're just trying to look busy. I would maybe make an effort to explain myself to you but we saw how well that turned out in the Board Game. I quite frankly don't have the time or patience to deal with your apparent inability to see that the questions you've asked have already been answered.

My ISO is awesome in terms of scumhutning, but hey baby cakes glass houses.

but in case i wasn't clear. I'D CLAIM TO THE ENTIRE DAMN THREAD. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SCUM KNOW WHAT I AM. I WAS INTERESTED IN SEEING HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

You don't have to. You just have to keep freaking out when someone asks you a question. And refuse to answer it.

Spoiler: Tammy scumhunting

Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

So, I was able to read Feysal's reply to my mass-alignment claim idea, and I now see what he meant about it being terrible. So ya, I don't think we should do that.

Vote: Rang Tangler

Still not RVS. Others should vote here too.

What about Feysal's argument swayed you? In my last post before the crash, I noted that you were rather overbearing in the way you backed up your argument and countered arguments about it. You seemed completely certain your way was the right way. What changed your mind.

Also, what about Rang Tangler screamed scum at you? You originally placed your real vote on him after he claimed to not have the intellectual capacity to contribute to the conversation, then offered up some possible roles based on alignment, and then claimed ambivalence on the argument but was intrigued.

How is this a scum tell?

Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

I can totally grasp why people find Norman scummy, but on the other hand I am not reading him as scum, and his lynch is one that I don't see myself supporting, unless someone has a better argument for why he's scum than those that have already been presented.

I especially dislike LMP's attack against him for voting Kondi because they were both voting that slot for the same reason, trying to blend in and I find the idea that a vote is worse for coming immediately after a vote count distasteful.

Tammy has found her way onto my scum list with her recent posts. She looks to me like she is trying to be aggressively unhelpful by questioning people's attacks (just to be clear, the issue I have is with the volume of these sorts of posts coming from her, I don't actually think that doing it is necessarily scummy). For example:

Also, what about Rang Tangler screamed scum at you?

You were voting Zdenek in the last thread and now you're voting AurorusVox. Did you change your mind about Zdenek?

Is there anything else you find suspicious about Shadow1 besides him changing his vote to CoolDog after getting called out for keeping his vote on Foxace while calling him town?

You highlighted that you are voting Norman for using think and might in regards to someone maybe being a scumbag. Do you find that scum are more likely to use words which make one seem unsure or town?How often do you tend to find scum by word choice?

Additionally, the fact that she is not voting reeks of unnecessarily cautious play, especially when she's been attacking Foxace. I looks as though she's checking to see if she can drum up support for the wagon before getting on.

I'd still like LMP to explain his rationale behind his strategy of lynching to maintain balance between the sides.

Thank you for this. This post absolutely made my night.

Questioning people is good...it helps generate discussion and allows me to evaluate people. Interaction is good.

So, you don't have a problem with me questioning people, it's just the volume? Is there a quota I'm not supposed to exceed on this site? Am I only supposed to ask a certain number of people questions on certain days that I wasn't made aware of? I comment on what interests me or I leave it alone.

There happen to be a lot of people in this game, and a lot has interested me.

You know, I've reread the questions you quoted just to make sure, but I'm not seeing how any of them are invalid questions.

But I always find it interesting the people who try to halt others from having conversations with people.

OK...so which is it? Am I aggressively unhelpful or am I unnecessarily cautious? I really don't think you can be both at the same time.

Nope you're right...I'm not voting right now, and I won't be voting until tomorrow or Friday. I don't really care about the support I have for whomever I decide to vote for. If people disagree, they disagree. That's the nature of the game.

Actually, that entire game is an excellent example. We (town) won, and you had 465 posts the entire game. You are currently at 451 in this game. If you could answer me, which 3 posts are your single biggest contribution to advancing the gamestate?

...are you literally posting an iso of mine from two freaking years ago to use as meta. Are you? Are you serious?

You're asking me stupid questions that are already answered or are such common freaking sense I have no idea why you ask them. I also have no freaking idea why I'm continuing to engage with you because conversations with you go nowhere because you either have no ability or actual desire to see where someone else is coming from that it's like talking to a brick wall. Do you remember our discussion in the Board Game? You know the role fishing one? Where I explained our thought process and motivation a million times and you still didn't get it. OH and hey guess what Porkens did misinterpret his role information which is what we were trying to solidify.

NO WAIT SERIOUSLY ARE YOU POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META AS YOUR BASIS FOR READING ME WHEN THE BOARD GAME GAME IS LESS THAN A MONTH OLD AND I'M ACTUALLY MORE ENGAGED IN THIS GAME THAN IN THAT OTHER GAME THAT JUST ENDED AND YOU'RE POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META.

FFS

[Titan]

Also, I don't know if I should be insulted or complimented that peregrine of all people claimed my iso is awful in terms of scum hunting.

You should stop defecating and answer the questions.

I only answer good questions. You should stop asking stupid questions, that are just busy work, go nowhere, have already been answers in the first fucking place, and try to understand WHAT I HAVE ALREADY FUCKING SAID.

[Titan]

VOTE: PV

[Titan]

Peregrine - I don't like interacting with you because you are annoying the everliving shit out of me (this I probably would have kept to myself/should have kept to myself but I'm going to stoop to your level after the defecating remark and quite frankly I'm not in the best place mentally to really think clearly so, deal). I don't like the questions you ask because they are stupid and don't go anywhere and or have already been answered like a million fucking times. Let's take the neighborhood stupidity. It's already been answered. I've already talked about the neighborhood, Falcon already saw where I was coming from, it's the most clear fucking thing in the world and yet for some unknown reason you don't fucking get it. It's just like just fucking like your role fishing accusation in the Board Games which drove me and pless so fucking insane because it was so obvious what we were doing but you kept harping on your point of view or how you were reading it and it ended up being a distraction because you don't actually read fucking shit when someone explains something to you.

So, for instance you say you haven't hear anything from the neighborhood, except then you go and point out all the times I did mention my neighborhood. No, it's not the most active neighborhood in the world. He hasn't been around a whole lot, and as I said AT THE START OF THE FUCKING DAY, neither was I or would I really be. It's really none of your business what we've talked about in the neighborhood beyond what I already fucking said in the damn thread.

And I don't care about claiming when I am the role I am; I offered to claim yesterday. I don't care if scum know what I am because it REALLY DOESN'T FUCK MATTER. And, you know what? If anyone asked me to claim, I'd probably claim because I DON'T GIVE A DAMN.

I'm not pissed off at someone asking me questions, I'm annoyed at you because of the stupid questions and you know what maybe I'm still annoyed at you from the Board Game game. Sometimes I'm good about not holding onto frustrations from previous games and letting that go but right now I'm a little not quite right and things are bothering me longer than normal and I just wanted to punch you so many times during that game and you're making me feel the exact same fruking way. And I'm fucking pissed off because I've been trying like hell not to lose it in a mafia game and you're asking stupid fucking question and your attitude fucking sucks.

And using two year old meta is fucking stupid when you have more recent more relevant meta. And fuck you with less effective. If I recall, part of the reason why we didn't end up losing that game when half the town wanted to blindly lynch me, ffery/cabd, and aun was because of my efforts that last day before I got killed, so take your less effective and shove it up your ass. You don't know how to use meta and you shouldn't try.

[Titan]

I will feel so justified from day one bullshit if Mastin turns out to be scum...doubly so if it's also Rancid.

Because that will mean it's in Cabd's scum contract and I'm not just some stupid omgus, I can actually tell when attacks on me aren't real.

[Titan]

Have you read his posts to ffery from last night?

[Titan]

I agree. That reminded me of this:

This is his response to me in Attack on Titan when I was scum reading his slot:

Spoiler: Mastin in AoT

Slight warning--I'm keeping up with the new content, but because my internet was knocked out for 24 hours, I'm playing catch-up across the site as a whole, meaning reading the game from the start is going to be delayed a bit.

This doesn't even make sense mastin and looks like you just talking to talk. Let's take a look at my whole post, shall we?

Now, read my post again. And rethink your questions.

I did read the post, Tammy. But bluntly. If you're town.

You have a problem.

So fuck calling me scum. FIX THE GODDAMNED PROBLEM. You don't have a handle on who the scum are. You

should

. So I ask again. Who's scum when I'm revealed town, Tammy? You don't have an answer. I know what. That's why I asked. Because you need one. Who are the players you shouldn't be townreading? Who are the players you're making not scum when they shouldn't be? Tell me now. Rather than others on day two.

But I'd like Mastin to talk to me about it. Because although I can see town motivation in what Pasch is saying, I think his "scum role-fishing" theory is a little far-fetched and I'm wondering why he went there instead of just occam's razor. Have any of you played with Pasch before? Does he do stuff like this as town?

Pretty sure he does. Maybe even moreso as town than as scum. Would have to double-check my games with him to be sure.

I don't know. Maybe kthnx, pasch, mastin.

Then help me bus my buddy.

VOTE: kthnxbye.
Don't remember who he replaced, but his posting's been awful.

[Titan]

you wish!

[Titan]

he's part of the arc that seems like it's positioning for a ffery lynch that's bugging me.

[Titan]

NO WAIT SERIOUSLY ARE YOU POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META AS YOUR BASIS FOR READING ME WHEN THE BOARD GAME GAME IS LESS THAN A MONTH OLD AND I'M ACTUALLY MORE ENGAGED IN THIS GAME THAN IN THAT OTHER GAME THAT JUST ENDED AND YOU'RE POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META.

:/ :\
I really don't get whats so egregious about this that is making you rage. Its old meta. People reference old meta semi-frequently, antihero referenced ~2 year old meta of me recently and I just told him he was wrong.

Pere is annoying me.

[Titan]

And if you're going to use an example for someone, use a game that just ended, i mean like ffs.

[Titan]

AP - What is your Mastin read?

[Titan]

Yeah, I'm done with you Pere. I am scum hunting. I've been scum hunting and I'm tired of you trying to bait me.

But hey play to your Cassandra hilt all you want. Everybody else in the game can see the damned obvious that I'm town but no you're probably right I'm probably scum because my neighborhood's been a little inactive, though we have discussed some things when we have time, and I claimed to someone when I didn't have a full town read on them.

you're right you're so right i'm busted i'm caught you should just lynch me now everyone else is wrong damn.

[Titan]

But AP - what do you make of Mastin's posts to Ffery last night?

[Titan]

My read on JSU is all over the place. It's what inspired the JSU!town wall from falcon. There are some things consistent with his town game such as discussing positionals or at least are consistent with how I've seen him scum hunt and what he talked about in the Wicked dead qt. But there are some things that are off that I can't quite put my finger on, including the melt down, which now I'm bringing up again and it makes me feel like shit to even question if it was real and if it was I'm going to feel like the most horrible person ever, but it conflicts with what I've experienced and talked with Bro about and how he views getting lynched as town. desperado hasn't been present enough to really get a feel there, not that I'm great at reading desperado anyway. But they're part of the undercurrent that looks like they're positioning themselves to lynch the ffery hydra and they way that whole arc is going is bugging me, so they're bugging me.

I'm just not real sure what's going on this game. I feel like there are several alternate universes in play right now and I can't figure out which one is the real one.

[Titan]

I'm just not real sure what's going on this game. I feel like there are several alternate universes in play right now and I can't figure out which one is the real one.

This is where I've been since about mid-day 1. Usually when I'm this screwed reads wise it's because the game is unannounced multiball or because I have at least one crucial read wrong. See the Red Wine game and my read of you as an example.

I'm 100% confident the game isn't unannounced multiball.

Yeah, cabd assured me the op wasn't lying :p

And same here, but usually when that happens I can look back at my town reads and try to work out what makes sense to be a wrong read and what doesn't. But here I'm feeling like I did in crosstown 2 but to a larger scale. In that game I couldn't even form a solid town core to look back at as all my town leans were given hesitantly. But nacho was scum, and even though I picked up on several things that bothered me from the start, I kept trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, and I think that messed me up.

I don't have a solid town core I feel good about here either. In a strange play of circumstances, I think you guys are my strongest town read, but it should be falcon and I don't know why it's not, but even with that I feel hesitant. I'm not sure what to do to make the game make sense.

Pedit: I'm not meaning town blocking when I talk about alternate universes. I very rarely town block. Very rarely. I do look for town reads to bounce ideas off of, but that's no really what I'm referring to either AP. This game feels out of sorts.

[Titan]

Okay, just read the last few pages, still in the process of digesting them.

So, I wondered more than once if my view of the gamestate was horribly wrong after Mastin's post to ffery but the AoT links makes me feel that it isn't.

It is mostly because sort of resonated with me. I think Breakfast is more likely town than scum but it has been frustrating at times to see eye to eye with ffery.

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

You, des/bro, peregrine and mastin. It's just that all of you guys line of questioning is more geared to "gotcha" than it is to scumhunting. That's how it looks from the outside.

I just think the way she's thinking about the game looks town, and maybe it's because she seems to be seeing the game somewhatimilarly to me. Her interaction with mastin and talk about mastin looks town. I mean I *suppose* I could be reading her wrong but I don't feel like I am. I feel like I've learned a bit from tales of vesperia and the board game where I incorrectly thought she could be scum for something like three days. She's hit some of the same notes here that she did there, and iirc she was prioritizing this game over that one when she had little time last month. I pointed out a post last night I thought was more likely a town!ffery post.

[Titan]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

Are you gearing up to waste your time looking busy tunneling on me?

[Titan]

My read on JSU is all over the place. It's what inspired the JSU!town wall from falcon. There are some things consistent with his town game such as discussing positionals or at least are consistent with how I've seen him scum hunt and what he talked about in the Wicked dead qt. But there are some things that are off that I can't quite put my finger on, including the melt down, which now I'm bringing up again and it makes me feel like shit to even question if it was real and if it was I'm going to feel like the most horrible person ever, but it conflicts with what I've experienced and talked with Bro about and how he views getting lynched as town. desperado hasn't been present enough to really get a feel there, not that I'm great at reading desperado anyway. But they're part of the undercurrent that looks like they're positioning themselves to lynch the ffery hydra and they way that whole arc is going is bugging me, so they're bugging me.

I'm just not real sure what's going on this game. I feel like there are several alternate universes in play right now and I can't figure out which one is the real one.

Just got to this. I can see the suspicion is because we are all "pushing" on ffery in some way or another. You are noticing this as an "undercurrent" because Desp and I have discussed Breakfast in the neighborhood thread and that's why we were in sync whenever he posed a question. I knew what he was going to ask and where he was coming from.

If you are questioning your townread on me because I question mine on ffery, why not ask me for details about what my issues with Breakfast are to sort it out?

I also don't think that I've been playing any "gotcha" cards with Breakfast. I am trying pretty hard to get them to spill out their thought processes to solidify my read.

I probably would if it didn't feel like this game was in pockets instead of on the table and I felt like I could trust anything.

I'm not questioning my town read on you, mostly, I still would be surprised if you flipped scum, I just feel hesitant about everything and I don't know what to do to make it make sense.

[Titan]

Falcon - you seriously read PV as town? Really?

Like really?

[Titan]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

Are you gearing up to waste your time looking busy tunneling on me?

No, I'm pointing out that another player is asking you the same question. And your response is who, but not why you think we are "developing a secondary arc to lynch Breakfast".
Also, you answered and didn;t tell him to go READ THE FUCKING THREAD.

You see the difference?

I think you're annoying.

If you hadn't already asked me the stupid questions about the neighborhood which began with your gibberish from last night, I'd have probably answered, but you've already annoyed me so no answers for you!

[Titan]

Also also pere you're asking questions to look busy, and falcon is asking me questions to understand where I'm coming from.

See the difference?

See the difference..

[Titan]

Also you're continuing to try to bait me. I hope everyone with a town read on pere takes note of what he's doing.

[Titan]

You should have a pretty good scum read on me by now pere. Why aren't you voting me?

[Titan]

Oh but thank you for the suspicion. I do like to live a little while, and I'm happy to be of service.

though I don't know if it's scum or town I service yet! and if it's even useful :p. oh me oh my!

[Titan]

Why is Pie confining himself to the neighborhood? Where is he? He had a decently strong start then zippo.

And you're probably right, I don't really trust your neighborhood.

It feels like wingate mansion when empire had his neighborhood with all scum, but he was shutting down any suspicion on them because they were so town and proactive in the neighborhood. When we came to massclaim Mara even tried to assert that the neighborhood didn't need to claim. It felt like different games were being played there too because their neighborhood was so weirdly played except we only had night talk in the neighborhoods there, so it's probably making it worse here.

[Titan]

Cf, it really annoys me that you can just ignore comments and questions directed at you so readily by people who aren't Tammy.

Tammy: Why should PV have you as scum right now??

He shouldn't. I'm town.

I suspect he knows that.

[Titan]

Also you're continuing to try to bait me. I hope everyone with a town read on pere takes note of what he's doing.

Baiting you into....answering questions?

For some reason, I cannot feel ashamed.

You should have a pretty good scum read on me by now pere. Why aren't you voting me?

Either your emotionally distraught over a forum mafia game with me from last month and my talking to you (via text on a page) is raising your blood pressure

or

You are caught scum getting pissed I'm even sniffing in your direction.

While I find the first so very unlikely, this is the Interweb and stranger things can be found on it. So, until I completely rule that out, you aren't full-on scum just yet.
Besides, distracting from the Mastin lynch would serve your scum-purpose very well if the 2nd is correct.

So, we'll keep watching you. And waiting.

Yes, the very act of you in particular asking me a question annoys the fuck out of me. I'm not kidding.

I don't like the way you interact with people. I don't like the way you can't seem to be fucked to understand when someone answers a question you ask and act all high and mighty in your response. You can't seem to ever have a conversation. You point out that I didn't say anything about the neighborhood, and when I said I did, you pulled up every mention of the neighborhood. I suppose in your little mind you thought that was an aha gotcha, but it just reminded of how badly I wanted to punch you in board games because you can't actually communicate in a normal fucking manner and you can't understand answers when given. I don't like the way that you act all vague and secretive but expect people to spill everything about you.

So, yes, you annoy me. You asking me questions annoys me. It's mostly your tone and your refusal to listen to answers provided that bugs me. Yes, I'm still annoyed with you from board game. Yes, I already said this. Yes, it's just a game. Yes, I'm still annoyed with you.

Got it? Good.

[Titan]

Also also pere you're asking questions to look busy, and falcon is asking me questions to understand where I'm coming from.

See the difference?

See the difference..

It's the same question. I asked for the posts that made you think them. Other than your opinion of the player asking them, there is no difference.

I'm glad you see the difference.

[Titan]

If I knew exactly what aspects I didn't trust I'd be outing that already. The game would, ohmygosh, probably make more sense to me if I knew exactly what I didn't trust. I mean gee I'd probably not be complaining that the game is in alternate universes and I didn't know what was real if I knew something. The very act of me knowing nothing and feeling completely lost means I don't know anything exactly. What I trust and what I don't.

I mean, really.

[Titan]

OMIGODS I just caught that "distracting from the mastin lynch" nonsense. Before I got barraged with stupid questions and baiting pere, by you, you know saying I wasn't scumhunting, I was talking to people about dun dun fun MASTIN!!!

See alternate universes. Alternate. Universes.

[Titan]

Actually Belisarius is 90% of the reason I think Stalin is town.

ffery has been non-commital and wishywashy. Beli is actually fairly transparent with his thoughts.

Yeah but being non-committal and wishy washy isn't necessarily a scumtell. I feel non-committal and wishy washy right now. Why isn't it a problem for you that I am?

[Titan]

Spoiler: mastin's alignment

Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town.

I'm so glad in my awful iso, you've noticed everything I've said about mastin. I'm so glad you're about to pull up everything I've said about mastin and be snarky and high and mighty about it. I'm going to be so glad to ignore it.

[Titan]

Spoiler: mastin's alignment

Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town.

I'm so glad in my awful iso, you've noticed everything I've said about mastin. I'm so glad you're about to pull up everything I've said about mastin and be snarky and high and mighty about it. I'm going to be so glad to ignore it.

Last time I checked your ISO to fact check something you claimed, and then posted it, you got snarky, my townread on you diminished, you got mad, I got snarky, and now your not talking to me except to tell me how confused this game has made you.

I wouldn't dare ISO your everchanging Mastin opinion or methods of sumhunting Mastin. That would be meta from 2 weeks ago, and totally not how you are now.

So, in my game notes, I'll put down "Tammy has Mastin as null for reasons not yet researched."

Would that be accurate?

Nope!

In order to be accurate you have to every five minutes change my opinion of mastin's alignment. So, you could write null, but in five minutes you should write town, five minutes after that write scum, rinse, lather repeat. That'd be time consuming though.

[Titan]

Brian - it doesn't matter if scum know what or where I am right now. Claiming had a potential upside and very little downside if he was scum as well.

Also - I'm not town reading desp ro or ap, but I wouldn't really lynch either today, I guess anyway. I don't even remember making that post but the karate kid quote suggests wine was involved :p

[Titan]

Spoiler: mastin's alignment

Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town.

I'm so glad in my awful iso, you've noticed everything I've said about mastin. I'm so glad you're about to pull up everything I've said about mastin and be snarky and high and mighty about it. I'm going to be so glad to ignore it.

Last time I checked your ISO to fact check something you claimed, and then posted it, you got snarky, my townread on you diminished, you got mad, I got snarky, and now your not talking to me except to tell me how confused this game has made you.

I wouldn't dare ISO your everchanging Mastin opinion or methods of sumhunting Mastin. That would be meta from 2 weeks ago, and totally not how you are now.

So, in my game notes, I'll put down "Tammy has Mastin as null for reasons not yet researched."

Would that be accurate?

Nope!

In order to be accurate you have to every five minutes change my opinion of mastin's alignment. So, you could write null, but in five minutes you should write town, five minutes after that write scum, rinse, lather repeat. That'd be time consuming though.

It means messy notes!

[Titan]

[Titan]

nacho nacho nacho
can't you see
sometimes your words just hypnotize me

[Titan]

I barely slept last night. I blame people on Skype.

I'm entering my delirious stage.

[Titan]

Brian - it doesn't matter if scum know what or where I am right now. Claiming had a potential upside and very little downside if he was scum as well.

Okay. It wasn't alignment indicative for me, I just thought it was weird. You two also have a QT all to yourselves, so it's no different from if it were a designed two-person neighborhood, in my opinion. And I'm also pretty sure the next time I claim to Desp in a neighborhood unprompted, he's going to tunnel the shit out of me.

Ah well. He claimed to me and his claim was pretty townish, there's just the every so slight paranoid hair standing up on the back of my neck but it's nothing too worrisome, so I claimed partly in return due to that, partly because even if he is scum it doesn't matter a whole lot and potential upsides/downsides available.

Also - I'm not town reading desp ro or ap, but I wouldn't really lynch either today, I guess anyway. I don't even remember making that post but the karate kid quote suggests wine was involved :p

Tbqh, I don't even know if you made that post to begin with. And I don't know what Karate Kid quote you're referring to. I don't quote movies so it can't be me.

Oh no it definitely came from me. That post had me written all over it. I just don't remember making it

(It was the post that said strike first strike hard no mercy sir)

~~~~~

So, a couple years ago, in two separate games in which Mastin was scum in both. At the same time, he had dreams about the game and they both involved him being the hero of the game. Now a lot of people dream about mafia. I dream about mafia all the time and reference in it games when it happens, but I can't help but remember the last two times I saw Mastin have these grandiose dreams which were metaphors for what he was supposed to do in the game, he was scum.

[Titan]

Another concern I had about Mastin was that his whole development into the town leader persona felt like he was telling a narrative about himself which was the same thing he did in ETL's resistance where I was scum with him.

That was where part of my resolve that he was scum at the time started to falter. (I wasn't joking when I told Pere my read on him has changed every five minutes.) But I was like would he, as scum, construct this whole narrative? I mean it kinda reminded me of him in the scum qt of Anything Goes, but in game, I've never seen it.

But, his whole scum don't make/like noise point is trash. Scum love noise.

~~~~~

Pie - Find a new point. That one's been beaten to death by you. If it hasn't convinced people, it's not going to by you yelling it again.

[Titan]

Falcon - What did you think of nacho's posting today?

[Titan]

LOL

[Titan]

I found two

-mastin has spent this entire game day calling AP scum but he keeps looking for excuses to get off the wagon or vote someone else. personally I think this points towards mastin x AP team, but it could also make sense as mastin scum not wanting to antagonize AP town
-mastin has literally ACKNLOWLEDGED she's been flooding the thread with bullshit and her response to that is? continue flooding the thread with bullshit. sounds legit

-Y

I'm pretty sure everyone who thinks Mastin is scum is right here with these points.

[Titan]

Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.

Interesting.

I made you paranoid when i said I thought you were my strongest town read didn't I? I figured it would.

Caution. Wind. Woooooo.

[Titan]

Desperado hasn't been present enough to really get a feel there, not that I'm great at reading desperado anyway.

I am, trust me (for now).

Do you feel that MastinSSK's scumflip will influence your read on JSU?

I feel like if Mastin does flip scum so many things in the game will become clearer. (I also will yell at Cabd for making that scum must attack Tammy day one of any Tales game part of his contract.) Well some things might be clearer. There's so much noise around her slot that I'm not sure how easy it will be to figure out her partners. It was easy in AoT to figure it out because it all became pretty clear to me that at least one of Bro/Pasch if not both were scum with her scum flip. Here, it's not going to be so easy to figure out who's bussing/distancing/defending. I'll probably become convinced that the rancid pirates were, in fact, scum if mastin flips scum.

I feel like if Mastin flips town everything is going to turn into a bigger mess than it already is, but I'm having a hard time seeing her flipping town right now.

Ask me again in five minutes. I might change my mind.

I suppose the part of me that is bugged by JSU might calm down with a Mastin scum flip, though des is no stranger to bussing.

[Titan]

After our last games, it's taken me aback.

Empire has a handle on how my irritability manifests as town and I think he probably could explain it to other players.
1
The niggles have been there for a while, though.

I feel like scum should basically be sharks in the water smelling blood at this point. I may not be lynchable today, but I'm getting there. But that's not the only use a bleeding townie has in scum tactics.

It took me aback when I realized it too.

It might just be me adjusting for the several misreads. It could be me picking up on things that I can compare as a matter of tone or what have you or what empire has pointed out. I'm not going to pretend that the little things that I read people with are explainable when it's become a matter of me trying to figure out someone over a series of games.

It might just be a couple of those things combined with the way your viewing the game resonating with the way I'm viewing the game, and though you might be paranoid of me it gives me a touchstone of sorts.

I'm not too sure what the niggles are or what they could be. I feel pretty transparent this game or at least I feel like this isn't how I'd approach the game as scum. I might not be blindingly obvious town because I think there are some things I've done that are fakable, but a whole bunch that I think are less able for me to fake. I very seriously doubt I'd basically take the same approach with you I did in Red Wine as I'd find it much safer to be paranoid of you as it would correspond with recent games and not inspire paranoia though I can see why it would from your end. I would just think it would be something on my mind I'd try to be careful about.

Mostly, I want reassurance that this fits how you absorb other playeres' styles.

Ah.

[Titan]

Falcon - you seriously read PV as town? Really?

Like really?

What differences do you see in his play that weren't in the Board Game uPick that could point to PV-scum here?

Probably none. Who knows. i have no idea. But I don't really want to talk about PV right now as i'll just end up ranting about him being annoying especially if I have to really start referencing that game and I already feel bad for ranting earlier and I'm trying to be a nicer person and help make games less toxic and more pleasant, and I feel like poking that right now will not help.

He's not getting lynched today so it doesn't really matter right now anyway.

[Titan]

Falcon - Did you miss my question about what you thought of Nacho's posting today?

[Titan]

Brian - it doesn't matter if scum know what or where I am right now. Claiming had a potential upside and very little downside if he was scum as well.

Okay. It wasn't alignment indicative for me, I just thought it was weird. You two also have a QT all to yourselves, so it's no different from if it were a designed two-person neighborhood, in my opinion. And I'm also pretty sure the next time I claim to Desp in a neighborhood unprompted, he's going to tunnel the shit out of me.

Ah well. He claimed to me and his claim was pretty townish, there's just the every so slight paranoid hair standing up on the back of my neck but it's nothing too worrisome, so I claimed partly in return due to that, partly because even if he is scum it doesn't matter a whole lot and potential upsides/downsides available.

I'll claim to the entire thread. I don't care. Even without one vote on me. I'll claim. I don't care.

This. should. not. be. that. hard. to. understand.

ESPECIALLY, OH MY GODS, ESPECIALLY SINCE in the damn board game that you just freaking just played with me I wanted to claim day two and unprompted claimed day three.

Like oh my fucking gods.

(oh but here's these two posts from tammy from a game two years ago where she was awesome, probably not in any way feeling lost in that game, probably not, so sure yeah it's the total perfect meta game to compare to this game and not at all the game I just played with her in which she probably approximated the same approach to the game as she is in this game, so we'll ignore that game though my gods is it fucking similar, I'll just say she's not as good as this one game.)

yeah.

[Titan]

Falcon - What did you think of nacho's posting today?

I thought his push on Mastin was good, but not outside anything scum-Nacho can't fake. He makes good points. I like 4213.

The "

I don't think Rancid was scum but Mastin is

" is an unconventional idea that resonated at some level because not many brought up that idea before but it does make sense if Muffin had a misread and Mastin was milking it for everything it's worth (and of course I buy that Mastin wouldn't janitor him). He'd want Muffin to flip town.

His response in 4391 to the 1v1 was pretty awesome as well. He hit the core of what I am having issues with Mastin about. He is thinking past the kind of tells that he would be expected to use.

I like his posting but there is so little of it so I wouldn't bank the game on it. What are you thinking?

Unfortunately, apparently, I've lost all capabilities of even pretending to look like I'm scumhunting this game, so you'll have to excuse the apparent drooling I'm doing in this post instead of giving you thoughts on this game (probably a little passive-aggressive of me right now)

I liked that first post of Nacho's it's why I unvoted him. I like that there's some passion there, but BUT he was able to display it in Wicked at points pretty well though being the mod could make me view things in a different light. However, I really liked his red-text wall about wanting Mastin dead.

Now, do I think he's capable of it, sure. I guess. I watched the way he went after Mina and though I think that he hit the robotic notes very very often in that game, he was able to channel some real passion here and there. I think the most telling aspect of that is that mollie/bert was so dumbfounded by your slot and was mostly scum reading you and not Nacho. Anyway that's how it looked from the outside.

But, my biggie rhymes to nacho were a sign that I was town reading him. It's not completely solid, but I feel pretty decent about it, and I was wondering what level of faking you thought he could do with an inside glimpse of his scum game.

(There's a couple town tells I believe I see in his behavior, and none of the objective scum tells I've picked up. Though I do *think* it's possible for him to fake the town tells, I'm thinking probably not. AT LEAST FOR NOW.)

[Titan]

Which, if AP is town, makes his observation a reasonable one. There's no one else in the game thread you're that amicable with.

Maybe. But after that back-and-forth with Bulbazak in that Micro game, I have an aversion towards interacting with players that I can sense will create a lot of noise if interacted with and too little content. But that was a Micro game and I don't care as much about getting into wall wars in smaller games.

then why are you interacting with me when it looks like I'm not going to produce much useful content toDay?

I have no idea how to answer a question like this or from what context you are bringing it up. I think I at least want all the active players on the same page as me (outside of the neighborhood, this is you, Titan, to some extent PV, and those in the neighborhood, I'm just interacting with them there). I have been trying to sync with the inactives as well when they show up but that's not very often. Like I said, if you are town, I want you on my side.

Ok. I want to be correct. It's not enough to be town. It's not enough to be on another town player(s) side. That's not how games are won.

You and Tammy earlier talked about me being arrogant in other games about my reads and not listening to other players' opinions. I think that was an oversimplification but putting that aside look at your own play in this game.

I dont' know that I've said you're *arrogant* but that you seem to only take seriously the reads of a few subsets of players...those whom you hydra with or who think like you. It's why in Tales of Vesperia I wanted malakittens to discuss reads with you because I thought you'd be more receptive to hearing her reads.

Although when I said you sounded arrogant in board game it was a different tone of arrogance that I was referring to.

[Titan]

Game that just ended. In which I was town. So was GASP Pere. I'm more engaged here than there.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

But, sure let's compare me to a game two years ago.

I mean maybe you should just make an MD thread. Tammy, you were a much better player when you were a newbie to the site, what happened to you?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Titan]

This game is white flag?

[Titan]

ALTERNATE FUCKING UNIVERSES.

SEE.

SEE.

[Titan]

Regarding 4448-
I never thought of it that way.
Tammy join date Jan 2012.
Good vs Evil game start Feb 2012.

Good v Evil- 26 player large theme game (28 distinct, 42 total with replacements) with 2 town and 2 scum factions, and special mechanics that inhibited town PRs from functioning.
This game- 17 player Upick large theme game (27 distinct, 29 total with replacements) with White Flag mechanic

Good v Evil - examples given, play based on first month on site
This game- Tammy is feeling lost (why?)(what does this mean?)

Spoiler: Good v Evil Tammy- transparency of thought process

Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

@Greenknight - Why would scum love early policy lynches? They don't kill the ones who don't contribute/are VI's because they want them around. They nightkill the players who are actually playing the game, and leave the distractions alive to hide behind/manipulate in the end.

Because everyone on a policy lynch is essentially making the same argument, it leaves very few trails in the voting compared to a regular lynch where people have to justify why they personally think the target is scummy. Since the way in which people pursue their targets is a primary scum hunting resource, that's a lot of information lost from a town perspective at the point in the game where town has the least information.

Since you mentioned Trekker in this context, I think he is actually scummy due to the extreme non-interactivity of his posts to date and wouldn't really be a policy lynch...

Why did you feel the need to mention "when I flip town" in your argument with Zdenek? Do you think it's at all likely that you will be lynched today?

That was in response to the increasingly strange conversation I've been having with Zdenek in which his logic keeps falling apart. He first claimed that I was being aggressively unhelpful in asking the questions I was asking, which he pointed out wasn't necessarily scummy, but I was asking too many in 439. He then made the wtf claim that I was defending people by asking the questions I was asking so that I would look good in the case of their mislynch and to reduce pressure by other people. He then made an even bigger wtf claim in 485 that I was redirecting suspicion in one and getting someone else to make a case on someone so I wouldn't have to.

In 493, he said that questions have limited use and it's best to just tell people that they're being scummy. When I told him that wasn't my play style, that I ask completely straightforward questions in order to interact with people, he claimed in 570 that he would still think asking pointless questions was scummy even if I flipped town.

Never mind the fact that if I'm doing what he's accusing me of doing that my questions can not be pointless in nature. Because if I am defending someone or attempting to reduce pressure or direct suspicion or whatever other crap he's divined in my questions, they by their very nature would have a point. They cannot both be pointless and at the same time do something. So, for him to claim that they are pointless, he has to admit that they are not doing what he has accused me of.

Beyond that this sentiment is ridiculous. It prompted MoI in 656 to tell him he's either terrible town or scum to stand by the claim that he'll still consider the questions scummy even if I flip town. He tried to substantiate his logical fallacy by using as evidence a statement by LMP in 660 in which he said that just because an innocent does something, in this case word choice, it doesn't mean it's not a scum tell.

My response to him was an explanation for why his argument falls apart and why he's wrong in his thinking. I included when I flip innocent, because it was the premise for the argument anyway.

Spoiler: this game

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

I'm not seeing a town attitude towards demanding people prove they are town for the benefit of their mental state. Seems both forced and trying to stay in the upper hand.

Okay now that I have a quick break, I can respond.

WTF? No seriously, wtf.

I'd like for you to point out the demand, first of all, I made for one slot, not people, one slot, that I really need to be reading as town right now. Yeah, I really need to read them earlier, life will be better for me and them for me not to go onto paranoid flip outs where I'm jumping ship and begging Nati for rum and a place on their ship while I restore my sanity. I doubt very very seriously that either head of that hydra viewed my early reach out to them as me "emotionally blackmailing" them.

Okay well to start. He over explained how he lost and didn't have the password to his hydra. Those things happen, why the need for the explanation?

Then he lets us know he did, in fact, get his role pm. I'm not sure why that pinged me, but it did.

His response to CarbonFiber that if he didn't see SSK was town then he's scum because he knew SSK was town before he got his role pm. Read off.

His comment on Arthur's obvious joke and self-vote being scummy is lolwtf. Then he called my post confrontational with Nacho and Bork. I wasn't partaking in friendly banter, nor was I pretending to. I wasn't even scum hunting them in that post or being confrontational, nor was I pretending to. It was a simple request or a plea for them to make the alignment of their slot clear so I wouldn't spend my time worrying about them. That he misinterpreted that looks willful, even more so than Lord Business, who doesn't know that we play together often and so there might be a reason why I want to not have to worry about them. He was in Tales of Vesperia too, in which I mislynched Nacho due to incorrectly reading him until it was too late to do anything about it and there were several head butts between Bork's hydra and I until I recognized that they were in fact the vig who's shot I controlled.

He then says he won't even take Nacho's word for his read on me based on me saying Nacho will recognize I'm town from my first post. I don't think for one second that he disrespects Nacho's ability in mafia so much that he thinks that Nacho would be swayed by me saying he'll see I'm town from my first post and call me town if he didn't feel it. I mean you only have to look at Too Many Heads to see that Nacho would absolutely come after me if he thought I was scum. He's pretty much the second best person able to read me on this site, and sure I can fool him sometimes for a little while, but it's not from me saying he'll read me as town from my first post. He'll read me as town from my first post because he'll probably recognize the tone there and he'll just be even more convinced as the game goes on. And I don't believe for one second that he actually believes my first post was emotional blackmail. He's played in enough games with me, as town and as scum, to not even entertain that. So, it's complete BS.

His reads don't feel real.

MAC - He doesn't feel like he's actually trying to figure out the game though he feels like he's posturing the game. The reason why I said it's not omgus because in the last game, in which he was in!, the entire scum team came after me and when I identified their motivations as scum motivation they discredited me by saying that I was just omgusing.

AND you were in Attack on Titan AND Too Many Heads. Muffin can't really read me. He's the one who became less convinced I was scum in Too Many Heads while Nati was convinced I was scum. In Attack on Titan when Muffin was scum hunting me in the neighborhood and we got into our fight, Nati replaced in saw our interactions and declared me confirmed town and claimed we were now masons.

You're appealing to buzzword. If that was Nati to actually draw a link to a game in which he read me correctly and ignoring every reason why I'm town here is appalling. If that's a muffin vote, then okay, muffin can't really read me. But Nati can.

I never said one head is reasonable; I didn't make any qualifications for either head other than the Nati head can read me and the muffin head can't.

@Tammy, I read your ISO more closely. I actually think you are pretty town now. So, the reason I didn't initially have a strong townread was that your post 53 felt a little aggressive because I assume Nacho would probably town himself up regardless but I do like the follow up in 74 asking ffery what she thought of Bork. I like the suspicion of me as well since you never read me wrong before, I assumed scum-you would townread me to keep it consistent. Post 126 looked really town as well and 129 mirrored my thoughts and the rest of your ISO feels town as well. My mistake.

What do you think of NotScience's posts so far?

~ F-16

Are you and mastin writing from the same play book? There's just no way that can be read as aggressive. I don't see how you thought that. I think I prefer the emotional blackmail accusation because that at least gets to how I felt when I wrote that post. Why would you think that nacho would town himself up right away and why were you just writing nacho off as town before either head had posted? You know that I'm pretty decent at reading nacho, though I read him wrong for a bit recently when I should have recognized he was town. I just don't see how people who know me and know how I approach mafia don't see that as a plea for people I need to have sorted. What I find as somewhat amusing is the people I directed that post to, the people who it was written for, didn't have a problem with it but other people are like ohyoudint! And nacho who can read me better than almost anyone else on this site didn't see anything wrong with it and nacho would love to catch me and lynch me if I were scum, so I'm just kinda thrown here.

I just don't know what to think of you now. I expected you to pose some questions to me and try to figure out my alignment, not read my iso and go "my bad". It feels like appeasement. I might just need to take a step back though, I feel like I've already been kicked off balance and it feels like it was done on purpose again.

I have an early townread on notscience. I liked a whole lot that he wanted to sort me early. His aggressiveness and stance that he's obvtown fits his town games that I'm aware of. Unless he's changed his scum meta it's not so aggressive and involved. I also liked Brian skies post.

In my opinion, Tammy the new player was much easier to see her hunting for scum, whereas this Tammy has a new style that is less easier to see her hunting for scum.

That was hard to type, but should be considered "nice" or at least neutral.

Why are you acting like you haven't consistently played with me over the course of the past two years? Why are you acting like you played with me in GvE, stopped playing, and suddenly started in this game?

Because from where I'm standing, you've seen the various iterations of my play, and you're acting as if you haven't. I can't figure out why that is.

What I can figure out is that you know, from the experience you damn well have, that needling me results in good distractions, and it feels to me like you're feeding that.

[Titan]

Peregrinnies - why were you surprised at me being snarky???

[Titan]

So we didn't play heroes of comedy together?
marketplace 2?
hpatpl?
marketplace 3?
board games?
gundam seed?
holy shit if you remember me from anything goes and have anything approximating a scum read on me here you really really really don't know how to meta at all and should stop?

I mean because then you should at least understand my playstyle varies and not be just comparing it to some two-year old game.

[Titan]

Peregrinnies - why were you surprised at me being snarky???

There's no reason for it. I'm asking questions because I want answers. You know that, why would town-you snark on me?

I already answered this. and this is why discussing things with you is a complete waste of time and is problematic because you don't fucking listen when anyone tells you anything. You annoyed me. You're first very first accusation was woefully incorrect. I pointed it out because it was not only completely incorrect but fucking stupid. You acted all high and mighty by going all gotcha by posting everything I had mentioned about the neighborhood when congratufuckinglations I had mentinoned the neighborhood more than fucking once though you said I didn't. You continued to ask me stupid fucking questions.

You are reminding me of hte board game when you asked the most moronic questions ever regarding our "role fishing" and refused to actually accept our answers.

This is a repeating fucking theme in every fucking game. If you could just for once fucking listen to a goddamn answer someone gives you.

you know what. i'm stepping away.

OHM. OHM. OHM.

[Titan]

[Titan]

I foolishly decided to do my isoing in alphabetical order, got halfway through the sheer volume that is AP, and drowned. Will try again tomorrow.
-Ceph

Is there a reason you didn't catch up in the game from the last point you read and decided o jump to Isos instead?

[Titan]

It k katsuki.

Pere can be troll scum and we can eat town cupcakes and have sugar highs!

[Titan]

Also that's a good vote too

[Titan]

Nati's post to Tammy were wierd and the way he approached his read on her didn't make sense.

I feel like an omgusing jerk, but this this is what I keep coming back to with them. Natis read and post to me just didn't make sense.

Also lazy it's like 3:30 and I'm past delirious.

[Titan]

Um am I the only sane or insane person?

I thought pbs thoughts on my neighborhood were atrocious.

In order to drop town reads on both ur slots, you'd have to think I was stupid enough as scum to ask for a neighborhood really unlikely to have many others in it and think I asked for a neighborhood with my scum partner and then was too dumb to at least make up neighborhood interactions. Like I mean w.t.f. I'm not a fuckign moron.

Think of me what you want but I'm not dumb.

[Titan]

Also gods I hated Peres interaction with ffery.

Ugh

[Titan]

Crap what else did I want to respond to.

Clyton has been absent from thread and neighborhood, but it's nothing to worry about right now.

No, I don't town block, but I do try to work with town reads.

I don't think pere comes put looking town at all but I'm biased and I know he has no fucking clue how play. Nacho will just say I'm omgusing and ignore it though, like he did mastin day one though look at him now.

[Titan]

*how to meta

Otherwise that looks mean, I'm not mean, just a bitch.

[Titan]

Mastin are you ignoring nachos push on you?

[Titan]

Though bro - still think pere is town?

[Titan]

So, about an hour ago when I started catching up the read card on mastin changed to town. An hour later and now it's at hellifino.

My kitten turned a year old today though, you should all partake in the festivities!

She has hit my mafia weakness though, that's for sure!

[Titan]

I need a quick reference but can someone give me a good meta analysis on Cupcake and why he is Town/Scum in this game as a result of that reference post? Could be in this game or elsewhere.

Someone else with more time can do this, but the general gist is that if he puts forth any effort at all, he's probably scum.

As town, he votes but doesn't really scumhunt. As scum, well, he's scum.

Scum in Aircraft Madness (large theme)
Town in Bipolar (mini theme)

This is a really big oversimplification of his meta. He does Scumhunt as town, though he's more likely to get bored/frustrated by too many pages/too long of days. He can be active as town too, it just depends.

He typically puts more :effort: into his scum games but that's not a perfect indicator.

[Titan]

So we didn't play heroes of comedy together?
marketplace 2?
hpatpl?
marketplace 3?
board games?
gundam seed?
holy shit if you remember me from anything goes and have anything approximating a scum read on me here you really really really don't know how to meta at all and should stop?

I mean because then you should at least understand my playstyle varies and not be just comparing it to some two-year old game.

marketplace 2 I already noticed a difference that threw me off: 1832 1909 2661-

" I think part of my issue with pere is kind of self absorbed as I can't see why he'd have me as null with the need to do further meta research when we've played a few games together and he's seen me as scum and town. I don't think I've been overly active this game and shining brightly like a beacon of innocence though but it still kinda reads off."

At this point you were picking up the whole "How someone reads me determines how I read them" thing.
But we worked through it.

HPATPL- You were SK. But even after you admitted it, I could see your town mindset scumhunting (you shot scum). That was one reason I was OK with leashing you. 1639

Marketplace 3 You were a hydra.

Board Games- You were a hydra

Gundam Seed (hydra) 370

I'm a hydra now.

Marketplace 3 - 95% of those posts are mine. (You can tell which posts aren't mine as syryana is telling me to shut up and meta someone like we had discussed >_>)

Gundam seed - 99.5% of those posts are mine.

Board games - pless posted more than I did, but that should tell you something. Games going on at the same time, my overall approach is similar, except I'm actually more engaged here than I was there.

What this collection of games whether hydra or solo should tell you is that you can't meta mr off one game, and sure as he'll not off one game from two years ago. And if you're going to look at a town game you sure as shit need to look at a scum game. You've seen two: team mafia and anything goes. Wait three weren't you in heterosexual revolution?

What all of the games you have participated in should tell you is that you actually have to look at a large freaking sample size with me unless you are a really gifted meta reader who picks up tonal differences really well. I'm an emotional person, I'm an emotional player, that means that my mood impacts my posting more than anything else. Not only my away from mafia game mood, but the mood of the game as well. It also impacts how I read the game and how I read others. I don't have one specific playstyle or one specific scumhunting method or one specific anything.

People with small sample sizes almost always pick up on incorrect things. For instance, in mafia.maiden a couple years ago magua thought I was scum based on my reaction to suspicion. I got very frustrated and flustered, which regfan who knows me recognized as town. But magua had recently played in ny146 where I had replaced into a slot widely regarded as the sk and was up for a lynch. I took that suspicion really calmly and worked to get information out there as I knew it wasn't my fault I was going to be lynched. I ended up not and was able to win it for town in lylo. (Incidentally, I've always wished I could be that person under suspicion.). But what to read me by was misunderstood.

Likewise, you could look at two recent games of mine.

im proud as fuck at this game

And

not as proud of this game

Both town wins. I replaced into both at the same time. The first game I felt like I was really on top of my game. A couple original reads were off but those were corrected for, and once falcon replaced in we figured out the game together really well. It was a solid solid game. The other game? Felt meh. Had a bad scum read but fixed it. Knew something was off with nacho but the game just felt off overall.

So both games at the same stage of my life. I was just as busy, in the same rl mood for both, but in one I excelled and one I languished. In both I was able to look town, which is over and above my best attribute. It's the thing I know how to do best and most consistently.

So, meta me, sure, but not as simplistically as you've done because you won't get anywhere, but irritate me.

[Titan]

So, about an hour ago when I started catching up the read card on mastin changed to town. An hour later and now it's at hellifino.

My kitten turned a year old today though, you should all partake in the festivities!

She has hit my mafia weakness though, that's for sure!

Beli's mastin scumread has softened too.

Our major ah ha over the last 24 or so hours is that we have 3 bet the farm town reads. I'm starting to think about what scum have to work with when most of town is towning it up, or at least staying well within their town envelopes.

It's the conviction that she's showing! But that's one of my weaknesses, and I know it is. But it's still very influential on me ( that's not the right word, but). I tend to be swayed by "you know me" arguments. It's one of the major things that had me town reading ktnxbye in chef mafia. That conviction that he had that d3x should be town reading him felt so real. It resonates because there are some players that I expect to see me as town when I'm town and I've reacted a similar way.

The only thing that makes me hesitate is mastin is a much craftier scum player than I am and would probably be able to sound like he has this conviction way more naturally than I think I would be able, but it just sounds so real.

Is nacho one of your bet the farm town reads? If not, where are you standing with him?

[Titan]

im proud as fuck at this game

So am I! Thoughts about that game cheer me up whenever I am starting to get a little annoyed at this one.

[Titan]

I need to read through Clyton. I remember a post where he asked to be tossed into the ring but I legitimately can't remember another thing about him because his posting is so boring.

Please leave Clyton alone for at least today.

[Titan]

I agree

What are you agreeing about?

[Titan]

im proud as fuck at this game

So am I! Thoughts about that game cheer me up whenever I am starting to get a little annoyed at this one.

Hey, do you wanna hydra with me sometime in the future when you are back from your mafia break.

I would love to!

[Titan]

im proud as fuck at this game

So am I! Thoughts about that game cheer me up whenever I am starting to get a little annoyed at this one.

This is what I agreed with.

You weren't in that game though. Why were you frownie face?

[Titan]

I just feel hesitant about everything and I don't know what to do to make it make sense.

When I first started playing mafia I was really paranoid about everything and anything and even though the paranoia now is probably less controlled than I think it is, I have tried to sort of lower my standards for who I trust in a way and pretend to myself that I'm more confident than I actually am? I know it sounds bad, but I feel it's achieved a better result at least for me. Obviously this could be of no use to you whatsoever and I'm obviously not a model player, but I think a more relaxed (e.g. it's just a game and not the end of the world if I'm wrong) approach could possibly help here.

Right now I'm not in the place where I'm like omigod i might be wrong, please send in the reinforcements. I'm in a I have no idea where to start or what makes sense. I don't even feel really paranoid. My major element of paranoia isn't pertinent anymore because it doesn't matter really, and I'm not like oh what if my reads are wrong, that would suck, which the major parts of paranoia with me really don't start kicking in until day four if I'm still alive. I just feel lost and I don't know how to fix the lack of direction I feel.

[Titan]

Lost means lack of really strong scum and town reads.

I have you as my strongest town read, I think. I have falcon pretty far up there, and though I'm not doubting that town read much I wouldn't bet the game on it, and I feel bad that I don't feel more strongly about it. And I should. He doesn't feel like Wicked or Attack on Titan at all, but I think part of my problem is I worry he learned some from Nacho and could be introducing some new things into his scum game. Though I will note that he was prioritizing this game much much more than he was Wicked where he was scum while both were going on, which I think is more of a town tell for him.

I have some peripheral town reads, but a complete and total lack of scum reads yes. There are things that bother me about players, but nothing that I've gone aha that's scum!

[Titan]

Ok, well what I've been mulling over in my spare time today is what the current gamestate means for scum.

While town as a whole not having a decisive direction, or even multiple decisive directions is nice, it's a volatile state. And I think it means that there aren't that many town players who are vulnerable to mislynch. Most of the players who could be considered lynchbait really aren't in this playerlist, if that makes sense.

I've seen this sort of dilemma for scum in smaller games.

How would you as scum tackle this gamestate?

Me? I have no idea. There are very few instances in which I can think like scum when I'm not scum and even when I am scum.

This gamestate is especially difficult because it's hard to assess who the actual town possible scum groupings are.

And it's even more difficult for me because I'm not a planner at all. I think the most I come to planning is in night actions, if I'm the most influential person, in which I look at who would be most valuable to keep and who is most dangerous and needs to die. That's the sum total of my planning in any scum game.

I guess my scum plan would be the same as any of my scum plans. I always expect to be lynched early when scum. I feel like my alignment is written all over my posts either way. As scum my goal is always to make it look like people who aren't my partners are and those who are my partners aren't, so upon my inevitable lynch and flip they make it to end game. I really don't think beyond that.

[Titan]

Although this game would probably lend itself to one of my town playstyles I try to emulate when scum, and that's the size up all the arguments and ferret it out. I'd probably have too many town reads, and have to decide between them. It's something I've been stuck in with as town, and something that I've exploited to great effect as scum.

[Titan]

I have some peripheral town reads, but a complete and total lack of scum reads yes. There are things that bother me about players, but nothing that I've gone aha that's scum!

This is part of my hesitation in scumreading weaker players in this game. I feel like this wouldn't be the sort of gamestate we would be in if the scum were mostly less active or less skilled players.

What I feel like is that there is this central core and a periphery, and the central core is unstable but I don't know what part is if that makes sense.

It's why I keep thinking that even though I don't have Mastin as definite scum, lynching him anyway might be best for the town. Partly due to the distraction element, and due to all the offshoots that are hard to feel one way or the other about. But I'm also concerned about the fallout for town if Mastin is town.

so yeah i'm all kdfjgad;jhgfio;dhgiohfgikjfdhgkjdfhnuo

[Titan]

I have some peripheral town reads, but a complete and total lack of scum reads yes. There are things that bother me about players, but nothing that I've gone aha that's scum!

This is part of my hesitation in scumreading weaker players in this game. I feel like this wouldn't be the sort of gamestate we would be in if the scum were mostly less active or less skilled players.

What I feel like is that there is this central core and a periphery, and the central core is unstable but I don't know what part is if that makes sense.

It's why I keep thinking that even though I don't have Mastin as definite scum, lynching him anyway might be best for the town. Partly due to the distraction element, and due to all the offshoots that are hard to feel one way or the other about. But I'm also concerned about the fallout for town if Mastin is town.

so yeah i'm all kdfjgad;jhgfio;dhgiohfgikjfdhgkjdfhnuo

By "central core" and "periphery," are you referring to the active vs inactive players or something else?

What would the fallout be if Mastin flips town?

The central core as I see it are: Mastin, AP, desbro, you, stalin with a little pie and me added in for flavor.

The periphery is everyone else.

If Mastin flipped town my reads on desbro, nacho, pie and maybe you might feel in flux. That might be because of neighborhood, but I would be looking at all of you cross-eyed trying to figure out which one of you were scum pulling everyone's strings.

[Titan]

I'm Princess Waffles, welcome to my castle:



(image stolen from bert from wicked but I was references so.)

[Titan]

And making plans as scum beyond a day or 2 out is silly because of course things will go unexpectedly.

[Titan]

The central core as I see it are: Mastin, AP, desbro, you, stalin with a little pie and me added in for flavor.

The periphery is everyone else.

If Mastin flipped town my reads on desbro, nacho, pie and maybe you might feel in flux. That might be because of neighborhood, but I would be looking at all of you cross-eyed trying to figure out which one of you were scum pulling everyone's strings.

How do you feel AP fits into this? Do you have a read on him now?

I don't know. I don't have a town read on him. The only thing I do think is that his role could be town, but cabd!game.

I have no idea whatsoever how to read AP. How is desp/bro reading him?

[Titan]

[Titan]

[Titan]

Hey you know what? You should re-sing this song as Psycho Kitty...

[Titan]

I'm sorry. Here's our game theme song.

[Titan]

also mara's replacing in with me

magenta_thegreat replaces orcinus_theoriginal effective immediately, etc etc

...I'm probably replacing out.

[Titan]

also mara's replacing in with me

magenta_thegreat replaces orcinus_theoriginal effective immediately, etc etc

...I'm probably replacing out.

Like I'm not joking. Is this a fucking joke?

[Titan]

NO PROBLEM.

/mod replace me.

[Titan]

Like it's no secret I don't play with Ms. Marangal.

But whatever.

Good luck town.

[Titan]

I won't touch you, I promise

I mean, unless you don't mind working and talking to me. I would like to do that, since orci-town read on you guys gave me a chance to not not let my paranoia drive me to scum-read your slot, and figure out where/why I town-read you as scum, and scum-read you as town and pick up your town-markers

I don't mind talking or working with anyone. What I do mind happening is what happened in NY169 and I'm not going to let the game devolve into a distraction any more than it already has.

Maybe I jumped the gun and I'm feeling a bit sensitive. I just automatically think here we go again and it freaks me out and it's not something I want to deal with.

I don't even mind you being paranoid of me legitimately; I just hate feeling trolled and pushed to a breaking point. I don't think that people realize the toll it takes to being pushed especially by those who don't know how to read the reaction properly and can't take in the residual effects.

pedit: I <3 all of you. I'm sorry. I realized I overreacted awhile ago but my internet sucks.

[Titan]

I feel liek I'm goign to miss something, cuz holy shit is it late.

I don't feel terrible about your slot brian. You guys are probably town and are only probably town because notscience has dropped out. (I believe he's sick btw not just absent, but still.)

I talked about why I'm townreading ffery. I think it's involved my most extensive read thus far. I think it's the strongest because she seems to be viewing the game with a similar lens as I am. If you could get into my head and see how I feel about the game, it's something I think would be difficult for scum to "replicate". There are other lesser reasons involved in my town read, but what pushes it to strongest is that.

Oh the other thing i'll respond to is the pere thing with regards to ffery. I'll do that later. It's 5 and I need sleep.

[Titan]

Why the he'll are you town reading them due to ns flaking over irl issues???????

I'm not?

I was already town reading their slot. NS flaking had me concerned about their slot HOWEVER I believe he's legitimately sick; therefore his flaking may not be alignment related meaning there's not a lot of reasoning for me to get concerned, just yet.

[Titan]

Bye Clyton.

Mara - I'm sorry I was a jerk last night

[Titan]

Anyone reading my goddamned posting without confirmation bias, without emotional attachment, and putting so much as an iota of effort into reading my fucking mindset would be able to figure that out. Doesn't mean I'm going to win. Yes, I should. No, I won't.

Hey Tammy!
Could you ask SAD if he thinks mastin is town?

It took me a minute to get why you asked me this.

Unfortunately, Arthur and I haven't talked since the cagefight, but I sent him a message!

[Titan]

The central core as I see it are: Mastin, AP, desbro, you, stalin with a little pie and me added in for flavor.

The periphery is everyone else.

If Mastin flipped town my reads on desbro, nacho, pie and maybe you might feel in flux. That might be because of neighborhood, but I would be looking at all of you cross-eyed trying to figure out which one of you were scum pulling everyone's strings.

This struck my interest the more I thought about it. Why are those the players the ones that you would be looking at if Mastin flipped scum as opposed to any other player in the game? For pushing the lynch?

That doesn't make sense and Desp said in the neighborhood that he feels like you might be setting them up which makes me somewhat paranoid. I won't go as far as that but something about what Clyton said made me think it is possible scum are setting people up upon Mastin's townflip.

I'd expect town-you to read me and Nacho independent of others. Okay, I figure Nacho is a good scum player that may be able to fool you and you might want to double-check it with other flips but you know me and my playstyle enough that I am not sure why Mastin's flip would influence your read on me at all. And you know my play is massively different from AoT and Wicked. I am not sure how you think I could have played well enough to fool

you

of all people in this game while simultaneously sucking enough in Wicked that you say in the dead thread you'd add me to the list of people who suck as scum.

If des is stupidly concerned about something, say it fucking here. Stop only doing lame ass shit in the neighborhood and bring it out in the fucking open.

This is my entire problem with your neighborhood and why I can't feel good about a town read on any of you. Why the hell is he filtering stupid shit through you when he can ask me himself???

Desp supposedly has me as town. You supposedly have me as town so what the fuck with this crap? It makes not a lick of sense because that's not even how I operate as scum. And since I say, and it's clear through the way I've been reading this game the whole time, I'd be looking at you all crosseyed trying to figure out which one of you was scum pulling strings because that's how it would look to me, you're like oh you're lining up lynches.

Like this question and how you're reacting to it makes no sense in the context of everything else I've said in this game. And I mean, gosh, why don't you wait to see if that happens? Mastin might very well be scum which makes all my worries for naught. My concern that there's strings being pulled only happens if Mastin is town.

I am reading you independent of others and that's not what that means. It means I am worried there is scum in your neighborhood. I don't know who though. You understood my issues with the neighborhood before so I have no clue what this is.

But seriously, why can't des come out here like a big boy and raise this problem himself?!?

[Titan]

OOOOOOOH How dare you think one of us might be scum if Mastin flips town. HOW DARE YOU!

[Titan]

Falcon - go read everything I've said about you. I've consistently said I'd be surprised if you were scum. I've also consistently said that I think I should have you stronger town than I do. I also said last night that part of why I might be hesitant is that you could have learned from hydraing with nacho while scum.

I've never said oh hey falcon's scum! I just don't know why you're going all paranoid on me for something that should be really clear since we've already discussed my distrust of your neighborhood.

I don't know why you're not trying to see where I'm coming from. I also don't know why you're getting after me about things you can't fake while there's a number of things I can't fake that shouldn't cause you doubt.

[Titan]

And I lost my train of thought. Blame skype people!

It's nothing to really worry about until mastin flips anyway. I mean sure there could be scum in your neighborhood regardless, but my paranoid looking at you guys cross-eyed certain there's string pulling in there really only occurs if Mastin's town, and then can you blame me?

And then, geeze, it's not like I'm leading lynches this game. And my main suspects from your neighborhood have been nacho/despbro this game anyway.

[Titan]

What the hell just happened?

Tammy, all you are saying is that if Mastin is town, you think someone pushing her is scum, right?

I dont see why that is an egregious opinion if thats what it is. PV could easily be scum on that. Magenta could be although I oscillate about Orci.

Basically yeah. And I've already expressed concern with the neighborhood and think it's possible there's manipulation going on there. I don't know why it's SO AWFUL I don't trust the neighborhood and think there's string pulling there. Which would be extremely downgraded if Mastin flipped scum.

[Titan]

It's nothing to really worry about until mastin flips anyway. I mean sure there could be scum in your neighborhood regardless, but my paranoid looking at you guys cross-eyed certain there's string pulling in there really only occurs if Mastin's town, and then can you blame me?

Ok, so assuming mastin is scum, who are her buddies?

Are you reading the game? Serious question.

[Titan]

Are you reading the game? Serious question.

Yes?

I guess I forgot? you had taken a hard stance on people other than Peregrine and Nacho. And you are sort of implying that Mastin being scum means Nacho isn't now.

I said last night in this discussion that I have no clue how to find mastin's parnters if she flips scum. There's so much noise from and around her slot that it won't be clear cut. For instance, in AoT, once Mastin flipped scum I was easily able to discern who else was more likely scum and in the neighborhood overnight identified who the most likely partners were (and was right!). But here, I have no flipping clue...at all. Like I just don't know. And I think me not seeing who would be her partners is part of what is making me hesitate on her being scum at all. Which is weird for me because I don't do partner analysis before a flip but I just don't know.

[Titan]

No wait are you serious. Someone thinks I could be scum with Clyton? And that I asked for a neighborhood with my partner? And then proceeded to not make up shit about our conversations in the neighborhood?

Like, seriously?

[Titan]

WHY ISN'T DES OUT HERE ACCUSING ME LIKE A BIG BOY???????

...and sure yeah i'm stupid for not trusting your neighborhood. I'm just a ball of dumb.

[Titan]

Des claims that he doesn't care about being transparent in thread and was phone posting at the time. I guess now that it's out in the open, he'll come out with it.

yes yes and we're all retards who can't get a town read on that damn slot when they're not doing dip for shit in thread and hiding behind their neighborhood.

I'm sure it's a problem with us and NOT a problem with them. At all.

[Titan]

I still don't understand how me replacing in makes our slot obv town, though

I think he was being facetious. A couple of us thought that GiF's request for pieguyn to replace into this game with him as a hydra made him town.

He was running on that same vein and being sarcastic.

[Titan]

you could be playing board games online with us but noone else is.

[Titan]

9i could be, but i'm fucking plastered

i think we all are.

[Titan]

i just lost.

[Titan]

and i'm disappointed regardless of your alignment because you'd know to fake better reads than that
i'm going to dance on mastin's grave when she gets lynched and if you're terying to fuck with me when i'm in that mode then you're going to get buried like everyone else who has ever tried

Who are you talking to/about?!?

[Titan]

I'm drunk

[Titan]

everyone's ganging up on me

[Titan]

I'm drunk

you are my soulmate

...


real quote from real skype chat tonight...

"if you're names not tammy you matter"

i

[Titan]

It's 7 against 1!!!!!!!

[Titan]

I've been put to sleep and disarmed. I'm sure it's not cool for 7 people to try to kill me

[Titan]

i don't think that everyone else's fun saturday night adventure is to gang up on me. Like really why would 7 people gang up on one person and call it a game?

And why gang up on me?

It's just not nice. But, it's really not a game.

[Titan]

because bro broke the fuck down in thread and mastin didn't even take a break from calling him shit to go "hey bro, are you okay?". he didn't even take a moment to reflect, to hesitate, to whatever he just brushed it the fuck aside and kept moving on

But I was worried bro was faking it.

the argument against him because he didn't just buy into immediately doesn't resonate with me because I was skeptical and still am.

(and I feel like shit if that was real but damn i keep worrying.)

[Titan]

So then what is your take on des's how dare I feel any suspicion towards your neighborhood whatsoever if mastin flips town nonsense that falcon relayed?

[Titan]

And quite frankly I'm pissed off at the suggestion I can't be suspicious/parnaoid of your neighborhood when the entire fucking game your neighborhood has been cloaked and we're just supposed to accept whatever trickles come out when one of you is ready to share it.

It fucking blows. Your neighborhood fucking blows. Everything about it blows.

[Titan]

So then what is your take on des's how dare I feel any suspicion towards your neighborhood whatsoever if mastin flips town nonsense that falcon relayed?

do you really think it's scummy to get incredibly defensive over reads on strong townreads?

I think it's scummy to sit in a fucking neighborhood and not do fucking shit in teh fucking game and throw stones while not doing fucking shit.

And what reads are you fucking talking about.

YOur neighborhood fucking blows.

[Titan]

i mean, empire did that and he was in the scum neighborhood of the century. but he wasn't scum, and that was because he cared as much as he did over defending them.

AND YOU'RE WONDERING WHY I'M FUCKING BOTHERED??????????????????

I was bothered in that game too. I said scum was in there. I knew he was being taken for a ride. Noone fucking listened to me.

So, what are you asking me?

[Titan]

But I was worried bro was faking it.

the argument against him because he didn't just buy into immediately doesn't resonate with me because I was skeptical and still am.

bro faking it would have looked a lot more like you're "omg i'm crying at work" in too many heads. go read bro's breakdown post again and tell me honestly that you think he was faking it.

I've read it ten times. I've explain my concerns about it. I don't need to read it again and then suddenly be *honest* about it. I've been honest about it, this whole game. And I haven't been hiding in a neighborhood to do it.

(and just so you know, I actually wasn't lying about crying at work when that happened. Real life was stressing me out and I used that to bleed into the game.)

[Titan]

So then what is your take on des's how dare I feel any suspicion towards your neighborhood whatsoever if mastin flips town nonsense that falcon relayed?

^it's more like f-16 theorized that ap and clyton are scum and the other two are setting up the neighborhood for mastin's town flip and i said "tammy and ffery are doing that"

bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit.


In case that's not clear.

FUCKING. BULLSHIT.

[Titan]

Oh my gods.

Falcon.

You actually think Desbro is town????????????????????

What the fuck are you people smoking.

Oh my fucking gods.

[Titan]

And quite frankly I'm pissed off at the suggestion I can't be suspicious/parnaoid of your neighborhood when the entire fucking game your neighborhood has been cloaked and we're just supposed to accept whatever trickles come out when one of you is ready to share it.

you can't be suspicious of our neighborhood based solely on mastin's townflip. the things that make f-16 and us town enough to be in your town core still make us town if mastin flips town.

PEdit: what are you calling bullshit on?

I NEVER HAD YOU IN MY TOWN CORE.

I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING TOWN CORE.

MY TWO READ APPROXIMATING A TOWN CORE ARE FFERY AND FALCON.

[Titan]

spit it out then

can you actually just turn on me completely and lynch me and get me out of this game.

i'm sick and fucking tired of watching you manipulate shit from the side aisles.

I need someone you're pulling crap on to flip town so maybe just maybe some people can see you for the snake you fucking are.

If that needs to be me, so be it.

[Titan]

The central core of the game.

That was not a fucking reads list oh my fucking gods have you read any fucking shit i've said?

Of course not. Scum don't need to read shit!

[Titan]

VOTE: just sheep us

should have fuckign happened yesterday.

[Titan]

seriously tell me how much of my posts you have read?

and when you went all complainy in the neighborhood about that falcon didn't correct you????????

[Titan]

i had remembered you listing us and beliffery and a couple others in a "core" and misremembered it as a town core

your reaction here is really weird and the instant switch into insults and shit is really off putting. i really have no clue where it's coming from.

It's coming from that I've been suspecting you. I've been worried about your whole neighborhood and reading any of my posts should make that really really clear.

In fact, if you read that core and misinterpreted it as town core you should have been more concerned about me on different levels if you had been actually reading my posts because the whole tenor of my game has been with not trusting you. So for me suddenly having you in a "town core" should have set off alarm bells, but it didn't and that worries me because it says you're not actually reading the game.

I don't care if I'm offputting, you're a suspect who's clearly not reading my posts and now I really really suspect you because if you're not actually reading my posts why did you have me as one of your strongest town reads?

I didn't insult you. thinking you're scum is not an insult, it means you haven't done anythign trustworthy in this game and I don't trust you. You may have your neighborhood fooled but I don't trust you.

[Titan]

Spoiler: Titan

So then what is your take on des's how dare I feel any suspicion towards your neighborhood whatsoever if mastin flips town nonsense that falcon relayed?

And quite frankly I'm pissed off at the suggestion I can't be suspicious/parnaoid of your neighborhood when the entire fucking game your neighborhood has been cloaked and we're just supposed to accept whatever trickles come out when one of you is ready to share it. It fucking blows. Your neighborhood fucking blows. Everything about it blows.

I think it's scummy to sit in a fucking neighborhood and not do fucking shit in teh fucking game and throw stones while not doing fucking shit.

And what reads are you fucking talking about.

YOur neighborhood fucking blows.

i mean, empire did that and he was in the scum neighborhood of the century. but he wasn't scum, and that was because he cared as much as he did over defending them.

AND YOU'RE WONDERING WHY I'M FUCKING BOTHERED??????????????????

I was bothered in that game too. I said scum was in there. I knew he was being taken for a ride. Noone fucking listened to me.

So, what are you asking me?

Look, I wanted to see where your suspicion was coming from and I went and read your ISO in the VisCon game where you repeatedly accused the scum in the neighborhood. I even saw Empire and Mara saying the neighborhood was all town etc. Then you made posts constantly saying that you don't trust the neighborhood and ended up being right. It does make sense to be suspicious here of the same thing happening. I guess at the time I got paranoid of you, I wasn't thinking in that context. But now that I see it, it makes a LOT of sense. I actually think suspecting us makes you even more town considering that background. I am overall convinced that you are town enough that I'd bet the game on it.

Also, I realized I asked you to trust me on BRO-Desp earlier which it turns out is exactly the sort of thing you

didn't

want to do in VisCon and turned out to be right. I have a better idea now about how you are looking at it and I am not going to ask you to trust me just because I've interacted with them in the neighborhood. I'll engage you with however you are reading them in thread based on your interactions with them. (I'm still getting through all the latest Pedits btw.) Does that sound like a better idea and a good way to fix what's been screwed up so far?

I feel so similar to Viscon. It's not even funny how similar this feels.

[Titan]

Oh my gods.

Falcon.

You actually think Desbro is town????????????????????

What the fuck are you people smoking.

Oh my fucking gods.

Everytime I doubt it, I go back to BRO's meltdown post. I have a hard time seeing it as fake.

I've asked penguin to read through them and tell me what she thinks. We both acknowledged her reading him incorrectly in Wicked but she might be able to pin down if that is something he could/would fake.

[Titan]

So then what is your take on des's how dare I feel any suspicion towards your neighborhood whatsoever if mastin flips town nonsense that falcon relayed?

^it's more like f-16 theorized that ap and clyton are scum and the other two are setting up the neighborhood for mastin's town flip and i said "tammy and ffery are doing that"

I'm doing what?

and this, i'm now reminded is further proof he's

not reading the game

. ffery has desp/bro in her bet the farm is town list.

[Titan]

What do you think of Nacho's certainty on it?

Specifically what he said about if BRO actually pulled this shit as scum, then he's won one game but by irrevocably burning a lot of bridges. I mean faking an anxiety attack is just incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Where did he say that?

I think I'd be a little surprised by him saying you wouldn't do that cuz it would be poor sportsmanship.

I guess part of why I don't buy into pie's case on mastin over it is because I was suspicious. I remember right as it was happening posting my concerns to cabd. I didn't say anything in thread because it could have been real. It could have been real but based on real life stuff which would not be alignment indicative. It could be him faking, again I'll feel like the worst person ever for thinking that if it's not, but. I'm of the mind that if he's town having a real breakdown, scum are more likely to back off because they know that's real and will be concerned about how they look whereas town might worry about being manipulated.

Idk I just think something is off there. And the hiding in the neighborhood and not actually reading the game and making bs accusations that don't make sense and then their reaction doesn't add up. I just don't get the town reads there. I just don't.

[Titan]

I'm busy today so I don't have much time, but...

Mastin - when I say that it will clear up the distraction, I don't mean the amount of posting you're doing. I've been doing enough posting of my own, but you're posting doesn't really help to clear up your alignment. And the distraction is the fact that you are a central focus of concern in this game. You are what a lot of people are focused on. I don't see that changing at all.

When I said you were a craftier scum player than me it didn't mean that I thought you just couldn't be scum here if you were getting run up, it was referring to the conviction. I would have a hard time conveying that much conviction that I'm town if I were scum but I think that you are craftier that me in that regard so it's not as strong a town tell in your case.

Regarding the neighborhood and why des frustrated me so much last night. Apparently they're towning it up in the neighborhood and raising concerns there but not doing anything here and we're all just supposed to buy they're town from it. I think neighborhoods are wonderful and can really help people get reads on each other, but when you are in a neighborhood, you can focus on manipulating those people in the neighborhood. Your "mist" can be directed in a way it can't in the game thread because you're focusing on manipulating just a small set of people and when you're not posting in the thread it raises alarms. IF they're keeping up with the game, even if it's just to say that they're falling behind, why not post in the game too? Why stay in hiding. I can't see the obvtown towniness being displayed in the neighborhood and when it's not in the game thread too I'm not going to just buy it. You can get awesome reads in the neighborhood. In NY146, I realized that MOI was trying to manipulate me in the neighborhood in a way that pushed me towards the proper decision in lylo. Without that neighborhood and seeing his behavior in that context, I might have gotten it wrong. In The Wire, I was able to get a good town read on DV based on the way he claimed to us, and we made a pretty decent town case on him that unfortunately wasn't followed after we died, but DV was also posting in the game so we weren't like "take our words he's town". Incidentally I also claimed pretty early in that neighborhood even though I wasn't convinced of either DV or Kuribo being town at the time. /

And here, the inactivity in my neighborhood was matched by inactivity in the game thread. Neither of us are keeping things out of thread while being active in the neighborhood. Penguin and I have talked a little bit more since she replaced in but it's mostly been me giving her an update of the game and asking her to read a couple people and tell me what she thinks, and she's a bit paranoid (or acting paranoid >_>) because this is her fourth neighborhood this year and in each one of her neighborhoods there's been scum who've been able to manipulate her in that way. And in this one both falcon and nacho should understand where I'm coming from that people can manipulate people in neighborhoods, not only from Viscon but from Wicked as well as both nacho and falcon were able to manipulate people in the neighborhood and then that was used as a means of getting them town read by people who were suspicious of them beforehand.

[Titan]

I know

I was explaining it for everyone not just you.

[Titan]

I kinda want the hammer. I feel like I deserve it after getting knocked off balance and the crap I had to put up with day one.

Reading Falcon's post reminds me of how odd his attack on ffery was.

Also, if mastin comes back scum, I'm just going to believe that rancid was scum too; otherwise I can't understand their actions and reads.

If Mastin is town, I just don't know what to do.

Still think that Pere is scum though regardless.

Still think you guys hiding in the neighborhood is garbage and des' posts the other night were atrocious.

[Titan]

Just remembered why I wanted Mastin lynched that I forgot to add in earlier:

His reads changes are opportunistic as hell on a couple of levels:

1) It feels like he is trying too hard not to have "static" reads and is switching them around like crazy to feel as if they are changing.

2) The changes themselves feel opportunistic. He pushes PV but drops that suspicion when massive resistance occurs. He pushed Fox/Hound but switched after Beli gave him a load of crap for it. He pushed Ffery when some players were growing increasingly frustrated with trying to interact with her notably desp/pv/maybe me.

3) RG read actually doesn't make a ton of sense either since they were sitting on the Nacho wagon for a while and it doesn't look like scum v scum at all.

This. I posted my thoughts about his attack on you resembling his posts to me when he was scum in Attack on Titan. Some of that I got distracted from when Pere started accusing me of not scum hunting and then later distracting from a Mastin lynch when I was actually discussing my Mastin suspicions.

I then thought some of his defense sounded town because of conviction, but I still can't get over just how odd the sudden attack on you that was.