Two-Headed Mafia 2 - GAME OVER!
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Oh, for Pete's sake. Half the reason I signed up for this game (even though I feel overloaded on games) is because I know I have a partner who can make up for my lack of posting and vice versa. I'll comment on this game when I find time, but it's fairly low on my priority list game-wise."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Ugh. This game is basically 34 heads all spamming. I think this game would be less spammy if every pair of players simply had used a dual account. *sigh*
In any case, here are the people I am suspicious of individually (since I can’t be bothered to remember who is partners with who while reading) after forcing myself to sift through this stuff.
1.) Eon. It is pretty clear while reading his posts in the “view all” section that Eon’s purpose today has pretty much been to spam. Eon has failed to give any suspicions even though it is clear he has no troubles with posting and reading the thread.
He was overdefensive when Ibaesha placed a “vote” (which was actually a FoS at the time) on Re2fan (his partner). When confronted with this, Eon said he was “only joking” and that he simply wanted to “hit Re2fan”. Not only does that seem like a slight backpedal, but right now, Eon seems much more concerned with not receiving votes than he is about actually hunting for scum.
2.) Re2fan. Much the same as Eon. This is another person who seems much more concerned with whether or not he has votes as opposed to whether or not his vote is actually on scum or not. The fact that Re2fan is actually partnered with Eon tells me that I know exactly where my vote will be going after I am finished with this post.
3.) TheStatusQuo. Firstly, the “ughhh, this is so confusing post” struck a chord with me. Complaining about something being confusing does not make anythinglessconfusing. Also, in my experience, people who act overly confused are often scum who are simply using the confusion as a smokescreen to go unnoticed (of course, townspeople often do this as well, but they usually at least offer something to help with the confusion while doing so). Mostly spammed up until lately, where TSQ FoS’s and votes Mini Neo/Sprontalic:
… but the reasoning is almost precious. When people are confused, in my opinion, they should do something to lessen the confusion (such as voting), which is something TSQTSQ wrote: Uh...So you say you're completely confused, and don't know what's going on, and then in the same breath go on to place a vote? That seems kind of odd to me. Odd enough to
FOS: Mini/sprontalicdid notdo, but instead chose to spam. Being confused and voting is something I do not find suspicious in the least, and since TSQ upgraded her FoS to a vote based on this reasoning, I am quite happy with a:
Unvote: ChannelDelibird/Ziliu, Vote: Eon/Re2fan, andFoS: TheStatusQuo."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Funny what the "all posts" function can do sometimes. Of the recent suspicions, I actually have to agree most with Mgm. I went over both Bird1111's posts and ShadowLurker's posts in isolation and in context.
Bird1111: Little content added to the game, and jumped on the Eon/Re2 wagon as it was gaining steam.
ShadowLurker: Began the game with the style of irrationally pursuing one pairing (H2 and TMH), and then when this was responded to, tried to call it 'overdefensiveness' (which I disagree with: the wagon itself was not well-reasoned, and that was exactly what TMH pointed out). Since that time, that has been SL's one and only "good reason" to vote for H2, I don't even agree with it, especially when I don't think "overdefensiveness" is even a very large scum-tell. It might be something worthpokingat, but it isnotworth a continual push for a lynch, as has been displayed by ShadowLurker. His latest posts are him simply disagreeing with people, and I can probably bet money that he will later quote this entire post and say something to the effect of "I disagree".
If anything, SL has been pretty much been a broken record this game, saying the same thing over and over, hoping others will eventually pick up the tune and play it for him.
Unvote: Glork/Mastermind of Sin, Vote: Bird1111/ShadowLurker.
I have also reread the Eon/Re2 pairing (which was where I placed my first serious vote of the game), and after I actually forced myself to stop and comprehend the collective posts (since they never read naturally for me), I can actually agree with MBL's assessment that he has at least been giving reasoning lately, and has been questioning other people as to their reasoning for votes. My early-game suspicion on them has dropped them back down to average suspicion."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Okay, writing this post as I’m rereading this game… and man, I forgot exactly how much spam was in this game. Yargh.
spectrumvoid, Post 91 wrote: My other head seems to have gone to bed. Oh well... I disagree with meta-gaming, by the way, since Glork is always a pretty much unpredictable person.spectrumvoid, Post 284 wrote: I don't like the Eon wagon either. He plays like this everywhere.
These seem somewhat contradictory. Would you explain whether or not you consider these types of statements (i.e. “they always play like this”) as metagaming, SpectrumVoid?spectrumvoid, Post 353 wrote: I do not support meta-gaming. But in other games I'm in with him, he also irritates me a whole lot (as I'm sure I'm irritating him). I can't help but let it influence my judgement since his hyper-defensiveness is very consistent. But I've tried not to have too much an impact on my decision.
While I’m reading, I’m noticing Ibby/Fritz going after Eon/Re2 a lot very early in the game (with Fritzler using his “know how I know you’re scum?” line), and a direct interrogation from Ibaesha on Eon, and this type of interaction continued until about page 15. Now that Day Two has started, Eon/Re2 are speculating that Ibby/Fritz might have died because SpectrumVoid killed them. I usually don’t bother with the WIFOM “who would kill so-and-so?” game, but I am marking the possibility that Eon/Re2 is the culprit trying to pin the nightkill on the next most convenient person.
This comment in particular:
Bothers me. It seems like we had a lot of people talking about how the nightkills were pretty bad, but Re2 lamenting Ibby after having beenRe2 wrote: poor ibesha =[ /never liked doctorsattackedby Ibby on Day One is not sounding very genuine to me. Also, the fact that Ibby/Fritz were not even a Doctor is just confusing.
Also, I don’t know if anybody else is catching this vibe, but it looks to me like Glork/MoS are coaching Eon/Re2 as the game is progressing. Whenever Eon/Re2 starts to get themselves in trouble, one of them seems to come to the rescue in some way (by either giving a distraction, or directly explaining something for them). As it is, I actually agree with Sprontalic’s original assessment on Eon: I thought his way of answering the two nightkills problem was fairly scummy, despite his “explanation” afterwards.
This post has been noted. The three wagons at the time were Eon/Re2, Lordy/SpectrumVoid, and Bird1111/Shadowlurker. TSQ’s vote was on Lordy/SV at the time. This is simply to note a possible Eon/Re2 + TSQ/UT pairing for later, since this is exactly the type of post I forget about.TheStatusQuo, Post 504 wrote: great.
So we have 3 competing wagons...
In general, the four pairings of Eon/Re2 (aided by Glork/MoS), Lordy/SV, and TSQ/UT are sticking out the most to me, although it’s rather jumbled around, since there seems to be quite a lot of contention between these four pairings alone… I would wager that there are probably two-three scum (not necessarily of the same alignment) in this list.
I’ll go with a:
Vote: Eon/Re2. I still think their interaction with Ibby/Fritz yesterday was pretty bad (I would urge others to read it over again), and they still never really went to much lengths in finding scum. Now on Day Two, instead of looking for scummy things, they seem to be instead looking for scum based off thenightkills, which strongly implies to me that Eon/Re2 may have been part of a group (or the person) responsible for the death of Ibby/Fritz (which is only compounded with Re2’s “lament” over Ibby). The possible slip about killing groups is practically sealing the deal for me.
Sorry this post isn't more organized, just writing as I was thinking."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Yos2 already addressed this. There are multiple reasons you might have decided to kill Ibby/Fritz.Eon wrote:Actually thats stupid, IF I would be scum i wouldn't KILL ibby seriously she is the one who got some protective words about fan and me in the end. So why would we kill her?
Firstly, the fact that you are Eon and Re2fan has nothing to do with why I am pursuing you. I am pursuing you because I think you are scum, and scum need to be lynched.Eon wrote:I love how people attack me and fan for my post i did, i told That thing to explain 2 KILLS and yet people attack us for that. Yeah, indeed why not to vote against EON and FAN when you have the chance. Right people =]
And the way you answered the problem of two kills was scummy. Let me go over it again:
This implies knowledge of the set-up (particularly, the presence of a Serial Killer). When pushed on this point, you respond:Eon wrote:Seriously scums did direct hit on doctor and cop. And im kinda sure that was pure luck from both killer. But how would scum and SK know that ibby is cop?
Eon wrote:2 Kills? Well i cant say for sure if its SK it can be Vigilante or something i just told it like to explain 2 kills.
Now you say that you meant Serial Killer AND Vigilante when you originally said SK. And IEon wrote:I tried to explain 2 kills, and by SK i ment "Serial Killer and Vigilante"
Plus seriously Ibaesha acted pro town and i think only SK and Scums would target her.do not believe that, which leads me to believe you are scum trying to backpedal. I think you were trying to widen your scope so you wouldn't get in trouble, but it really only made it worse.
Further, as soon as Day Two opened, the two of you start with:
This quote. Basically: "Ibby died, and she was attacking SpectrumVoid! So SpectrumVoid should be a top suspect!". This leads me to believe you killed Ibby/Fritz so you could start off the day with this exact argument.Eon wrote:Okaaaay this is very very bad.
Hrm well Glork heh its kinda interesting, everything you told is like "Lets hang those 2" But lets remember what Ibaesha told, im going to sound scummy but SHE WOULD DEFINATELY check spectrumvoid.
Glork so why dont you add them to suspect list?
So now you are appealing to other players in general. "Ibby is a good player, and she preferred a SpectrumVoid lynch over an Eon lynch! So we should go after SpectrumVoid!"Eon wrote:Of course i think ibby would check Void because she clearly told "I prefer to lynch bird, but i also prefer to hang void that eon" and lets not forget ibby is good player.
Also, I should adjust my last post, where I noted a possible TSQ/UT and Eon/Re2 pairing, which after a reread of Day Two, no longer seems very plausible (considering TSQ is going after Eon fairly hard). I just wanted to formally scratch that theory off for the time being.
I have read your posts from multiple views. And after the post where Eon tried to widen the definition of SK to mean "Serial Killer OR Vigilante", and the posts where Eon pushes on SpectrumVoidRe2 wrote:petroleumjelly/spectrumvoid/statusquo
You are all threating me and eon too much without tryng to see from our point of view, and i'll be glad to send anyone of you to hell when the time comes.solelybecause of the death of Ibby/Fritz, I am thinking your "point of view" is that the two of you are looking at this game from the eyes of scum.
Vote stands."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Hmm. I always seem to forget about the specifics of this game easily, probably because of the inordinate amount of non-content early on.
In any case, I think a couple of my opinions were deleted, specifically one where I noted that I think Glork/MoS have been acting as a sort of "protector" for Eon/Re2, which I find rather disturbing (as in, whenever Eon/Re2 come under fire, one of the two of them always seems to bring up a new topic of dicussion, or they directly try to quash the suspicions on Eon/Re2).FoS: Glork/MoS.
I will, however, need to discuss this game with MBL, since the two of us have (unfortunately) very different opinions on the state of the game (at least as of about a week ago). In particular, I don't believe he fully agrees with our vote being Eon/Re2, but I am not 100% sure on that subject. We'll get back to you on that."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Unvote: Eon/Re2fan.
This game deserves a reread, and it seems like every time I brace myself into doing just that, the site crashes. I will be busy this week up until around Friday, at which time I will try to solidify my suspicions, and perhaps dig up a few things I have previously overlooked. Until that time, I would rather not have my vote on somebody when I can only vaguely recall why I was voting them in the first place."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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I had originally thought that "multiple bullet wounds" (as were found with the death of StD/Pablito) could have been multiple scum groups, but this leads me to believe these deaths are due to one scum group with many members (probably 2-3). The "single shot" is likely a Serial Killer.Courk wrote:The search party quickly found TSS/Yosarian2 dead with multiple bullet wounds in the same alley where Pablito/STD had been found.
I will need to reread this game with the information we have gained since yesterday. Hopefully with fewer players, there will be less spam and more substance. I should have time this weekend, since I only have two more finals to go."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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I will need to discuss this game more with MrBuddyLee. But first things first:
Unvote: Bogre/TheManHimself. I agree that neither of these players have added much of significance, but when considering their last posts (Nov. 13 and Sep. 24, respectively), evenifthey are scum, they probably won’t be doing much killing anytime soon, seeing as they don’t even seem to be here. MBL and I simply had a conversation the night before saying that we wished there weren’t as many lurkers and non-contributers, so I assume that’s why he moved his vote to Bogre/TMH in the first place.
That said, I am also unimpressed by the Pooky/Adele posting record. I could see my vote moving there later in the day if they continue to post little of substance, but I am not comfortable placing somebody at Lynch -1 when we are still missing probably half the players in the game.
In fact, I am wondering if the following pairs have done anything for the past night:
1.) Bogre/TMH (last posts Nov. 13 and Sep. 24)
2.) CDB/Ziliu (last posts Nov. 12 and Sep. 24)
Of course, the fact that these pairs don’t seem to have been here doesn’t “clear” them per se, but I do doubt that either of them have sent in a kill specifically (although this does not rule out a scum group sending them to do a killing, or something).
I think I quite like aVote: Armlx/Nightson. At first I figured Nightson must have posted a decent amount of content since it appeared he had quite a few posts, but most of his posts, after reading them in isolation, don’t add much to the game. If anything, it appears to me as if Nightson is trying to give theappearanceof contributing. Armlx seems to be completely absent, but it only takes one-half of a team to be around in order to send in a night action."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Hehe. That made me laugh.
And eh, I dunno, MBL. I remember reading through Amb's posts on Day One, and sympathizing with the amount of spamming that has gone on this thread (although in my experience, this is probably theworstgame [other than ScumChat Mafia] I have seen in terms of spamming). I tried to kick the game into gear a couple times, but it never seemed to do very much.
And of course when I try to get something going on somebody today whoshouldbe able to respond instead of needing replacement, I get an FoS from Adele. Gotta say, this game is rather uninspiring.
Nevertheless, I'll see if I can't force-feed myself to read this game over again sometime soon."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Hmm.
MBL and I discussed this game for a few minutes the other day (that seems to be the most time I can ever squeeze out of him - grrr) on AIM, and he speculated that Amb may be feigning disinterest in the game whilst actively playing so as to stay under the radar for "posting" without giving all too many suspicions (instead hiding under the guise of bandwagoning people until the game is small enough so that there won't be so much spamming). Not sure if he wanted me to post this, but it certainly seems like a definitely possibility, and I have been rolling that marble around in my head for a while now that it has been brought to my attention.
However, since Amb has promised a reread, I am more than willing to see what (if anything) he comes up with, and then go from there."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Okay, this game sucks. I might go for a lynch Pooky/Adele just for the heck of it at this rate, even though I don't think they are the most likely pair to be scum at this point. And since I haven't seen MBL on AIM for ages, I'll have to ask what he thinks of that in-thread."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:this bandwagon against me and my beloved other head is absurd!FoS: Pooky
Here's some food for thought, Pooky. Who doyousuggest we bandwagon, then? The combined record of yours and Adele's voting record is as follows:
Day One
Vote Nobody
Day Two
Vote Nobody
Day Three
A "random vote" on Klebian
The two of you have been completely useless. If you don't want to be wagoned, suggest an alternate wagon with an explanation, and try actuallyvoting. The town doesn't have much of a shot at winning of townspeople don't even bother to vote. Your "random vote" does not do much for me, seeing as Klebian/spectrumvoid were the people who started the wagon on you in the first place, so if anything, your first vote in the game (which came on Day Three), which you purport to be "random" looks like simple OMGUSery."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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I don't think there is a "case". I conversely don't think there was ever a "defense". For lack of movement as well as general interest in the game, however, I will:
Unvote: TSS/Nightson, andVote: Pooky/Adele. You are now at Lynch -1. I suggest a claim at this point."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Agree with above. The combined posts of Pooky/Adele are pretty much "sorry I'm lurking" and "don't lynch me". This game has been running in place for what feels like the last month, and since every time I reread this game I pretty much just see spammage, I figured I wouldmakesomething happen, especially as the mod has recently threatened a deadline.
I do care about a good lynch: I've been searching for one since the beginning of the game. I'm surprised to see this coming from you, seeing as you have declined to vote for the first two days (read: not caring about a good lynch), and your first vote of the game (on Day Three) was "randomly" on the person to start the wagon on you, and now your first "real" vote simply looks like OMGUS.Adele wrote:Now you vote for us because nothing's going on to your satisfaction, and think we should claim when there's no case against us? I'll leave it up to Pooky whether we claim or not, but whichever he picks, your last post looks scummy as Hell. You don't care about a good lynch; you just wanna attack whoever's weak."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Ugh. Time for a wake-up call.
Vote: Ambfor now; this could be moving pending responses. Question time.
1.) Spec/Kleb, do you have any useful results for us?
2.) Amb, why did you never get back to us on your reread? And how did you somehow forget that you were voting for Pooky/Adele before you tried to vote them again after they were already lynched?
3.) CES/Mgm, why did you vote for Pooky/Adele after you alreadyknewthey were lynched? Why exactly were you voting Bogre for the entirity of D3?
4.) Glork/MoS, the two of you seemed to have been very eager to post early in the game and spam, but have petered off since. Why? I am seriously thinking the two of you are trying to avoid the thread as of late.
5.) Lowell/Spront, do you intend to keep touting the fact that you are purposely lurking in this game? Why have you even done so to begin with?
6.) CDB/Zindie, your pairing in particular has been extraordinarily inactive for the past Two mafia days, and in fact for the past two months. If it isn't obvious, I have a difficult time reading non-posters. Zindie, don't you love me? I was hoping to see an analysis from you sometime yesterday.
7.) Nightson/TSS, I have been getting the feeling that your most recent posts have had little substance whilst trying to appear to be substantive. Could you give me your top two suspects with a reasonable explanation for each, and who you think is most likely to be town?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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<-- Is trying to do criminology reading/homework. *shakes fist*
Well, I seem to have been slacking on my game notes (although I do have the voting patterns from D1 and D2, just not finished from D3), but I don't believe anybody who is alive has claimed anything, nor has any prior information claimed about them. So far as confirmedness goes, about the only person I have marked as town besides MBL and myself are spec/kleb."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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This reads as an admission of scum to me. A townsperson would have said "If you'reGlork wrote:...If you're a third cop, and you're confident that you're sane, just come out and state it directly, along with any living innocent results you have...claimingto be a third cop whopurportsto be sane..." etc.
Really? What in particular makes you think there are up to 3 mafia scum left? MBL and I had a brief discussion on this last night, and decided that balance-wise, 4 mafia v 1 SK seemed heavily weighed against the SK to an extent that we thought it unlikely.Glork wrote:There are 2-3 Mafiatesand a Serial Killer out there, it seems."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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You answered your own query. The other two Cops probably had sanity issues, which were supposed to lead to confusion of results, as well as possible counter-claims, all of which would help to "even" the game, as you say.Glork wrote:Even then, the odds do not favor 3 Mafia and 1 SK in a 17-player game, unless the scums have some significant perks to even things upor the town is having to deal with insane cops/docs.
Do you care to speculate on "scum perks" while you're going to bring up the subject?
Blah, blah, OMGUSery. I have not lost my cautiousness, or else I wouldn't have forced MBL to discuss the 4 mafia scum possibility with me last night (which I have, in fact, already mentioned). Nice try, though.Glork wrote:I'm surprised that a player normally as cautious as you, PJ, would press for the notion of there only being two scum left. It definitely makes me wonder if you're a dirty scumbag who just wants to see the day end with my face ground into the dirt."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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And lol. Now for a real quote:Glork wrote:Actually, at this point I would suggest a massclaimso my partner(s) will know whether or not it will be safe to kill spec/kleb tonight.
Freudian Slip? WhyGlork wrote:... (unless we get lucky and get some serious crosskill action on this coming night... which I do *NOT* want to see happen).wouldn'tyou want to see cross-killing? That would be the best possible thing that could happen at this point."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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1.) Mafia RB is extremely unlikely, or else I would wager spec/kleb would have been role-blocked last nightGlork wrote:Scums with abilities (such as a Mafia Roleblocker), investigation-immunity, or nightkill-immunity.
2.) I will grant the possibility of GFness
3.) You think there are UNNK mafia against a SK? Doubtful. Forcing a SK to lynch mafia instead of having the ability to NK them, once again, is unbalanced."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Hum. Just got back from classes... interesting development.
Unvote: Glork/MoS. I have no qualms to extending this day: we already have one confirmed scum (whether he is bluffing SK or actual mafia is up in the air), so we might as well search for a second (or possibly third) scum while we're in day and have the time. We should not allow for the possibility of Glork/MoS to hammer themselves or another player until we decide to end the day.
However, I don't get to ask claimed scum questions very often, so I will definitely take this opportunity. I realize that Glork/MoS could lie like the Devil in responding to these, so I won't be giving the answers an incredible amount of weight, but I see no harm in asking, and potential benefits to be gained:
1.) Explain all of your nightkills
2.) Why did you originally push the agenda of 4 possible mafia, while now reverting to 3 mafia plus a "possible traitor"?
3.) Does your mafia have any collective quirks?
I might have more questions later if I can think of some, but these were the first things that came to mind."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Well, not technically, CES. MBL and I have been throwing around possible set-ups, trying to decide what is/is not likely. Since this game started with 17 players, it's a bit difficult to decide.
IfSpec/Kleb are Cult of some kind, the town wouldn't necessarily be screwed. I've seen enough Cult Leaders act like Cops (without ever claiming information whatsoever, as they are doing in this game) that I have become very weary of such a possibility. If you would like a few examples, check out WoT Mafia (where I damned wellshouldhave lynched Tamuz the Cult Leader, who claimed a very vague information role) or Random Mafia (where Ibby managed to push a lynch because she had failed to recruit flyingm00c0w).
Andifthat is the case, that would mean they tried to recruit Pooky/Adele N2, and Glork/MoS N3, meaning they would have one live recruit from N1.
Furthermore, if there is a Cult this game, that does make it possible for there to be a 3-person mafia group. It should further be noted (MBL and I are discussing this possibility right now, in fact) that there is not a Serial Killer in this game whatsoever, but instead a Forced Vig, whose purpose is probably to lessen the chances of a Cult getting too large too quickly.
In light of this, I would like spec/kleb to claim to exact nature of their information, as well as their night choices. I don't want to get screwed over by a cultagainif I can help it."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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In fact, while I am on the subject. For those of you who are (as of yet) unaware:
I really hate cults. I do not think they should be in mafia games whatsoever.Ifthere is a Cult, andifthey have even had a passing fancy of recruiting MBL and myself, I promise this to you: Iwillrat out that cult. This might be against "the spirit of the game", but I think cults are much more against the spirit of the game than any other role. Having somebody be town for four days in a row (seven/eight days in WoT), and then magically converting them to scum pisses me off.
Thought I should throw that out there are fair warning.
PPE: CES, try to think about more possibilities than what you think is "the obvious". If you have noticed, the SK/Vig has been targeting people wholotsof players believe have an annoying playstyle. Namely, Fritz, Coron, DGB, and then Fritz again. If there is a forced Vig, going after general lurkers and people who could easily be scum because of their general unreadability and unhelpfulness is not altogether a bad strategy. It's not like the Vigwould knowthat they are targeting Cops and Townies (I would consider the Vig to be the "single shot", if such wasn't made apparent by my posting), so you can't really use that as an argument against the possibility.
I would also imagine that the Mafia would definitely be pushing the SK agenda, whilst not considering the possibility of a Vig."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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The problem with all of this is that we don't know the full town set-up: there may as yet be unclaimed power roles which would help to explain the balance of any given possible set-up for scum groupings.Zindie wrote:The question is: what do we choose to believe? We don't know the sanity of the dead Cops. If they weren't sane, then voidybuns/klebby is probably talking the truth. If they were both sane, then I have trouble believing voidybuns/klebby is town.
On the other hand, three cops could be necessary to balance 4 Mafia/1 SK in this kind of setup.
Now, if there's a forced vig, there could be a Cult. But, then, I'd say, 3 Mafia+Cult, and two Cops plus a forced vig.
As it is, I can't see three cops being "necessary" for a 4 Mafia/1 SK game (as you suggest), because thereshouldhave been a crosskill somewhere along the line in that case. Since I have seen mini games with 3 Mafia/1 SK (and in fact, they are becoming quite common), and that this game has 5 more roles than a mini game, I would think thatat leastone of the Cops would have had some sort of sanity issue. Furthermore, I just find it hard to believe that there would be 4 mafia v 1 SK, unless that SK had some really stellar upgrades (such as UNNK and investigation immunity, or perhaps unnighttargetability for a forfeited kill, etc).
I do agree, however, that if there is a Cult at all (which is by no means even assured), that we are much more likely to be dealing with a Forced Vig andnota SK, seeing as that would necessitate that the game began with 5 scum,butwith the very real possibility of the number of finishing scum increasing to 6, 7, or 8 (in a 17 player game)! However, a Vig (even a forced Vig) taking out scummy players would help to weed out cultists, I would imagine, while the Cult would be able to effectively search for scum through failed recruits (as would be the case with spec/kleb here, if this is true), thus making the necessity for information roles decrease.
I have noticed klebian posting in many other games today, and yet pointedly ignoring this game ever since the possibility of him being cult has been brought up. A note: You shouldn't need to have to talk to your partner whatsoever in order to claim your role, how you got your information (and on what nights), and why you chose the people you did to gain that information. I will not believe, at this point, that spec/kleb are not working with some sort of inside information."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Pay more attention. If spec/kleb are the Cult Leader, then they tried to recruit Pooky/Adele N2 and failed, and tried to recruit Glork/MoS N3 and failed. That means they only had a successful recruit on N1, meaning there would only be two cultists in the game. It is entirely possible for the cult to just be plain missed so far as nightkills go.Zindie wrote:I'm not seeing Cult myself, though. It's possible, looking at the game, but I would've expected at least one dead Cult member by now.
Furthermore, you seriously need to at least glance over WoT Mafia. That was something like a 30 player game, and over the course of seven days and eight nights, not one cultist was nightkilled or lynched, even though the Cult Leader claimed to have some sort of information, and two of the cultists had claimed information roles (i.e. what you would think would be excellent nightkill targets for scum). A game with 17 players missing a maximum of two cultists for three nights and three days is more than possible, so far as I am concerned.
And since I have now seen spectrumvoid post in other games, while pointedly ignoring this one, I am really starting to think MBL and I have hit the nail on the head. If they are a Cop (or some other legit role), they should have no problems coming to the thread.
If spec/kleb come up cult at this point, Zindie, you are starting to look like a likely cultist along with them, of those left in the game."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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To be honest, if your claim is correct, that only bolsters the chances of a Vigilante.
Gunsmiths are supposed to be aweakerform of a Cop, specifically because they do not know whether or not a person who has a gun is scum, or a Vigilante (or possibly a Cop, depending on how the mod works). They are often put into games when there is a Vigilante, so that when the gunsmith gets a "gun" result, they cannot bepositivethat that person is actually scum, but may in fact be pro-town.
If there is no Vigilante, that would essentially make you two a Sane Cop (unless cops are investigated as having guns, which we don't know), which goes back to the problem of having three Cops.
What have your results been for each night?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Apologies that I didn't answer this sooner, I thought I had.Klebian wrote:I don't get this cult speculation. You're saying that a cult leader would fail a recruitment and thus conclude that his recruitment is scum? How does this follow? Well, I guess, I should ask, what happens when a cultist tries to recruit scum? I've only played in one game with cult, and that was on another forum, and when cult recruited scum, a cultist died... But I guess it's not the same on this forum? (Just a note: the mod of that game is a regular player on these forums as well)
I have seen quite a few games with a Cults on this forum, and I currently cannot think of a game where a Cult died for trying to recruit scum.
When cults try to recruit scum, they are often told that their recruitment failed. I would say that 70-80% of the time, that is because the person they tried to recruit is scum. The cult then usually tries to act as if they have an information role of some sort in order to lynch the failed recruit, which in turn makes them look more likely to be town, while also giving them another night of recruiting. If you would like examples of Cult Leaders acting like they have information because of failed recruitments, see:
1.) ScumChat Mini Mafia: This post, where Logicticus the Cult Leader tried to get me lynched (I was SK, as it happens) because he had failed to recruit me on Night Two.
2.) Wheel of Time Mafia: This post, where Tamuz the Cult Leader tried to get a wagon on Flay (who was scum), because he had failed to recruit him on Night Zero. He claimed more informationagainin this post, after he had failed to recruit Yosarian2 (who was scum) on some night. I won't look over the entire game to see if there were other instances.
3.) In Armlx's Random Mafia, Ibaesha the Cult Leader (at some point: I didn't read the game personally, so I am not sure where it is) pushed to lynch flyingm00c0w (who was scum) because she had failed to recruit him.
There are more examples of such things, but these were the first three that came to my mind."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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I have done some quick and dirty background investigating into Courk's modding habits. I looked at all of her games she modded at Grey Labyrinth. For the games that were large enough to include a cult (hence, I will not include Two-Headed #1, as that only had 6 roles), here were the results:
1.) Football Mafia, first game modded. No cult.No gunsmith.
2.) Clue Mafia, second game modded.Cult. There was a random chance that a cultist might die for a failed recruitment; scum were included in roles which could not be recruited, and they also fought with a Recruiting Masonry.No gunsmith.
3.) Dating Game Mafia, third game modded.Cult. The cult could only recruit townies, and did not die for failed recruitments.No gunsmith.
4.) Mafia MMV, fourth game modded. No cult.No gunsmith.
5.) Star Trek Mafia, fifth game modded.Cult.Cult did not die for failed recruitments.No gunsmith.
6.) WW2 Mafia, sixth game modded.Cult.Cult did not die for failed recruitments. There were quite a few weird roles in this game - butno gunsmith.
For those interested, 2-Headed Mafia #1 also did not contain a gunsmith, but I would expect as much in a 6-role game anyways.
I would say Courk has a fair chance of throwing cults into games, and rarely kills off cult members for failed recruitments. She also has never used a gunsmith role, unless she has modded games elsewhere."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Note:
If there is a cult, I would say Mgm/CES are the more likely the cultist at this point (as opposed to Zindie). He has tried to rush the lynch on Glork, downplayed the possibility of a Vig, tried to quash the discussion on Cults, and made two separate (and untrue) arguments as to why there it is not likely for there to be a cult ("cults are not common" and "the norm is for cultists to die for failed recruitments"). Since first-time Mods almost never use a cult (simply because they cannot gauge how it will affect the game), I would say Courk is very much more likely than the average Mod to include a cult in any given game.
MBL and I originally were wondering if he was mafia scum for all his play this game, but I could see him as cult scum as well. He's probably just plain scum, although I'm not sure which kind."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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I get the feeling you're trying to scare the town into doing the wrong things, jelly, with the cult thing.[/quote]CES wrote:Jelly, I'm not really downplaying the possibility of a vig, as I'm essentially asking for any vig to claim. If you really believe there's a vig, that point of view will only be confirmed, no?
Are you seriously saying cults are common? I wouldn't say so. Especially with smaller games(including this one, it's only 17 players). And I said "I see dying when attempting to recruit scum as the standard.", which I do. Your misrepresentation of my second argument is noted.
I must admit that the 66% cult rate in Courk games is unsettling, but I'll stand by my point of view that lynching Glrok is a better move without a vig claim. The 0% gunsmith rate doesn't mean that much to me. It doesn't get used that often, but I'm sure Courk knows the role. I don't intend to lynch kleb on this evidence.
1.) You tried to downplay it until it was obvious I was not going to curl up and go away.
2.) I agree that the prior lack of using certain roles does not mean it will never be used by a given mod. But Courk seems extremely more likely to use alternate investigatory roles (I saw her use a Tracker quite a few times, for example) over a gunsmith. I mostly looked for gunsmiths to see how Courk deals with gunsmiths investigating Cops, but there were obviously no notes on this subject since Courk has never used ones.
3.) I am not necessarily advocating that we lynch spec/kleb. I would definitely like to see them respond. I am simply making sure that the town is aware that (especially withthisMod) a cult is a very real possibility, and that if it is anybody, it is most assuredly spec/kleb, and I will not lie that the more I think about, the more I think this is the case."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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^ Agree with MBL. We are probably much better off lynching Glork/MoS today, as this will not even change the number of kills (unless he is SK) since there is at least one more mafiate. Either the Vig/SK or the Mafia will probably be taking out spec/kleb.
Ifthey come up cult tomorrow, then this discussion will have been all well and good. If they do not, then there would be no harm done, since it would not have changed the outcome of today's lynch, and in all probability, the scum were probably going to kill spec/kleb tonight either way. Furthermore, if there is in fact a mafia group of 4, then we would be better off lynching GlorkOs in any case, so I think lynching them is the correct move in any situation.
The only thing this discussion has done is made sure that we are covering our bases. Even if we turn out to be wrong, I will not regret having done it."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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1.) It's the Vig's choiceCES wrote:If you're so sure we have a cult and a vig, then why don't get the vig to claim?
2.) If the Vig claims, they could:
->A.Get culted
->B.Get nightkilled by scum (while the scum hope Vig targets cult, I would imagine)
3.) I would rather force scum out into the open as opposed to a useful town role"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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1.) I would suggest that nobody even bother to read Glork/MoS's posts. They are clearly scum who see an opportunity to live another day and will say whatever they have to in order to save their skins.
2.) As I have said before (and I will say again), Glork/MoS is still the correct lynch today. I am currently thinking they are mafia scum (and hence have at least one partner who can still kill), although it is possible they are SK (I find this unlikely by this point, however). This will still leave two nightkills (one Vig/SK and one Mafia) which can potentially crosskill, or hit cult. I consider both of those plusses.
3.)
I have gone over this already. If spec/kleb are cult, they would only have hadAmb wrote:THe mafia havent managed to nuke a single cult member to date, and we havent managed to lynch one. Either the 'cult' is very inactive in it's recruiting abilities, or we are very unlucky. 9 Deaths out of 17 players, that would make the cult so potentially big that it would be an all out Cult vs Mafia game. That doesn't appear to be the case.one successful recruitment. How do people keep reading over this point? That would mean they were successful N1,failedN2 on Pooky/Adele (hence calling them scum the next day), andfailedN3 on Glork/MoS (hence calling them scum the next day).
Onceagain, look at WoT Mafia. This seriously cannot be this difficult. Just look at the first page, and the nightkills. That game had 30-31 players (not all the players are on the first page, since some of them "disappeared"). The game ended with 7 players. 4 of them were cultists. About 23/24 playersdied, and thetown never once lynched cult, and not one cultist was ever nightkilled the entire game.
Two cultists living past three nights and three days, then, is quite possible so far as I am concerned."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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No. You have to understand that it's not even guaranteed there is a Cult at all, and this could just be MBL and I being overly paranoid. I would just rather have our bases covered, since we clearly have the opportunity to do so. Better safe than sorry, so far as I am concerned.
We lynch Glork/MoS. This does a number of things:
1.) The Mafia will have either 1 or 2 members left. It will be in their best interests to kill spec/kleb; and this would frankly have been the case whether or not we had this discussion in the first place. Either spec/kleb are Gunsmith (which means we did right by lynching Glork/MoS anyways, as it would definitely have been worse to have lynched a Gunsmith), or they are Cult (which does our lynching for us).
2.) The Vig/SK's best interest would also be served by trying to either kill any remaining mafia scum, or any likely cultists (or if somebody crosses the realm of being a likelihood in both categories). If they hit mafia, that will either eliminate the mafia group, or leave one left alive. If they hit Cult, then spec/kleb will also be dead, with the possibility of a final cultist roaming about (which will have been recruited that same night, N4).
In other words, all the scum will probably try to take each other tonight, which will work to our advantage. I would rather lynch a confirmed scum then apossiblescum. The downside, obviously, is thatifspec/kleb are Cult Leader, they will get one final night to attempt a recruitment. Either way, the town really can't afford to mislynch at this point, no matter which type of set-up we're dealing with."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Damnit, the Mafia and SK/Vig both targeted spec/kleb. What rotten luck. But in any case:
*high-fives MBL* Weknewthat gunsmith claim sounded completely wrong. Tch.
Pretty sure one of CES/Mgm, Amb, or Zindaras/Skruffs were culted N1. Deciding what happened last night is almost impossible, although MBL and I were thankfully not recruited. It might be possible that the cult failed to recruit last night as well, by targeting either some sort of scum, or alternatively, a power role (this is applicable if the cult could only recruit townies, as is true in some set-ups).
I am thinking CES/Mgm are the most likely N1 recruit. I won't bother WIFOMing myself into wondering who was culted last night.
Vote: CES/Mgm."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Hmm.
I think there were only 3 Mafia to start off the game. I find it highly unlikely that the town wassupposedto rely on cross-killing just to win. We would have to lynch up to 4 Mafia members, as well as (realistically) anywhere from 1-4 cultists, plus a possible SK, in a game where there was probably only going to be a max of 7-8 days. That does not seem feasible to me.
I have been contemplating as to whether or not it is to the town's advantage to have the Vig/SK come out. I don't think the town has a very good shot at winning unless we force the scum to cross-kill.
What I Think is Left in the Game
1 Mafia
1 Vig/SK
1-2 Cultists
I say we try to lynch Cult today. Notably:
The underlined portion is wrong. Cults win once they control 50% of the town, and I believe that was also how Courk used them.Amb wrote: Unless there is only one cultist left, in which case they arent a concern at all. (1 single cultist can only tie with town, and will still lose to scum, in which case they will have to try and out the scum as best they can).
After we lynch cult today, there will be 5 players left. The Mafia and SK/Vig will kill, bringing the town down to 3 players tomorrow (just enough for a final lynch). Those nightkills will then have a very good chance of hitting Mafia, SK/Vig, or a cultist. I think the town has a fair shake (at the very least) in getting a cross-kill of some sort. Since scum have incentive to kill opposing scum, I think there are strong chances there will be 2 town and 1 scum by D6, which is the best scenario town can hope for at this point, I think.
- Note: "Piling up on the wrong player" seems like an incredibly misleading phrase. The cult can't afford to jump on CES/Mgm if he is not cult, because the SK/Vig and/or Mafia will simply kill those cultists. Same for if there are 2 Mafia (which I doubt anyways). Scum are essentially paralyzed at this point because they have to worry aboutotherscum."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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To answer that:
It is honestly a crapshoot.PJ wrote:I won't bother WIFOMing myself into wondering who was culted last night.
1.) Cult could try to recruit experienced players who they think will carry the game for them (i.e. Pooky/Adele + MoS/Glork)
2.) Cult could try to recruit people who are likely to survive long into games (this often includes lurkers, people difficult to lynch, or people who are rarely night-killed)
3.) Cult could try to recruit people they like (people they are likely to get on with, as you say)
And there could be other factors. This is why I hate cults. You cannot use past game-play in order to findcultists, since anybody recruited was, at one point, town."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Oh, don't you dare try it, Zindie. You don't know me well enough, apparently. Try taking a glance at my past games with cults, my reactions afterwards towards cults, and my player statistics page (specifically where I talk about my dislike for cults). This is certainly not the first time I have held this position, and it will not be the last. It is not an indicator of my alignment. For example:
You can be suspicious of me for whatever other reasons, fine: butPJ, Chrono Trigger, as Confirmed Innocent Mason wrote:If there is a cult, I will beextremelyunhappy. Ihatecults with a passion. I think they ruin mafia games: how do you find cultists except through sheer luck? All efforts made at clearing townspeople are shattered by just the existence of a cult, and people who were once playing for the town win suddenly switch win conditions to destroy the town. And if there's an argument I hate to see, it's "say, I'll recruit you so you'll win with me if you don't lynch me". It disgusts me.
... and although that wasn't completely relevant, I thought I would get it out there. But just to make sure: If I am culted, with an 80% certainty, I will sell out that cult. So don't even think about recruiting me.thatone does not hold."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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MBL wouldn't have a choice. He knew the risks before he agreed to partner with me.MBL wrote:The difference between this game and others is that, in this game, you're paired with someone else. I'm simply wondering if you would do the same if MBL disagreed.
Let's get people posting. Lots of info out here."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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*sigh*
I am still waiting for MBL to return so I can speak with him. We didn't get too much discussion done during the last night, except for what I have generally posted at the beginning of today. We pretty much decided that if spec/kleb turned out to be Cult Leader, that CES/Mgm was our best guess at who would have been culted N1, and also that there was probably only 1 mafia left as well as a forced Vig/SK, while leaning towards the Vig. Alternatively, we decided that if spec/kleb were in fact a Gunsmith, there were likely 2 mafiates left, which probably would include either Amb or CES/Mgm, and probably some other person that we had previously not paid enough attention to.
I still think CES/Mgm has the greatest chance of being scum (I can see him both as Mafia or Cult at this point), so that is probably where my vote will end up today.
I would like to hear something substantive from Lowell/Spront."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Stupid appeals to pity. *sigh*
Well, to be fair, that was just what MBL and found the most likely after the game went into night initially, so I haven't really critically examined your posts since the game reopened. I will make a case for you to respond to, although I will clearly need to reserve more time for this game, especially since one wrong lynch probably guarantees a town loss.
But if you turn out to be cult, I seriously might cry. I amsotired of losing to cults, and this game would be especially painful since MBL and I managed to figure it out before it could catch the town bycompletesurprise. Cults do not deserve pity.
In fact, I will try to (when I find the time) make a list of the top two people MBL/I think could be mafia, the top two people MBL/I think could have been recruited N1, and the top two people MBL/I think could have been a (possibly failed attempt) recruit from N4. I would encourage everybody to do the same sometime soon."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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I have been in two finished games which had cults. I'll just give synopses of both games (which you can check on for verification if you'd like).Zindaras wrote:One question, PJ. I know you dislike Cults, I've seen that for now, but, from a metagamin perspective, I'm interested in reading a game where the Cult got outed by one of its members. Have you ever outed a Cult befoe?
1.) ScumChat Mini Mafia, found here. In that game I happened to be a Serial Killer (which probably won't do anything to help how people view me in this game, but tough noogies), and the town learned that there was a Cult on Night Two due to me nightkilling a cultist, so the cult was never traditionally "outed" by anybody.
As it happened, the Cult Leader [Logicticus] had tried and failed to recruit me on Night Two, but probably didn't want to go after me on Day Two because if I could get him lynched instead, the Cult would have lost immediately. I don't quite recall how I crafted my fake-claim, but I think "bandwagoning" let me "Doctor protect" people, and "posting in CapsLock" let me "protect people from Cult".
Anyhow, the Cult Leader tried to fake-claim a "1-Shot Day Investigation" on me on Day 4 to get me lynched, and at the time, his partners were Maz Medias and Fritzler. Not only did I completely tear apart the "1-Shot Investigation" claim and expose him as Cult Leader, but I caught both the other cultists in one fell swoop, and even though the cultists could have forced a No-Lynch, one of them [Fritzler] hammered his own Cult Leader when he realized the day was lost.
It turned out I had a "back-up" Serial Killer, which Fritz/Maz failed to recruit on Night Five, but Fritz also had a role-block ability which he used on me. He then offered to recruit the remaining townie to the Cult if they would lynch me, which they did. So I got lynched and lost the game.
2.) My other game with a cult was Wheel of Time Mafia, found here. In that game, I was Rand Al'Thor, a town Vigilante. That game, very unfortunately, was a "no reveal" game, which in turn caused me to dismiss the possibility of a cult multiple times (since not revealing who dead cultists are would be serious bastard-moddery). It turns out that even though some 23 players died, not one cultist ever died (even though Macros assured me they would have been revealed as a cultist if they had, though I'm not sure I believe him). Needless to say, I was completely taken aback when I was told the game was over with 7 players alive and that a cult of 4 members had won, and I was quite pissed.
As I noted earlier, in that game (as well as ScumChat Mini Mafia, andthisgame), the Cult Leaders claimed exceedingly vague or ill-flavored investigatory roles. I realized this to be a disconcerting pattern for Cult Leaders to have non-explained information in other games as well (such as Ibaesha in Random Mafia, which I only really know about because I conversed with Ibby on a regular basis).
So to answer your question, I havenotreally outed a cult before, although I do try to keep it in the back of my mind as a possibility. As soon as MBL expressed the same concern (except on a serious note, instead of idle speculation), I took a second look at spec/kleb's actions during the game and decided that theyreallyfit the bill of how I would expect a Cult Leader to act after they have failed a number of recruitments.
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I'll have to look at the exact numbers for lynching v nightkilling, but at a cursory glance my thoughts were pretty much as follows:
If we lynch a killer today, that leaves only 1 kill for tonight (unless there are two Mafia), which will leave us with 4 players tomorrow. If there is a second scum killer and we don't lynch them, the town loses. If there are two cultists and the second killer doesn't kill the other, the town loses (since there will be 2 cult, 1 killer, 1 town).
Putting the town with 4 players tomorrow and 1 live killer seems like a horrible move for town. I think the town is much better served allowing for the killers to kill each other or a second cultist, leaving the town with3members tomorrow. In that case, we will hopefully have 2 town v 1 killer, or 2 town v 1 cultist. I think that's the best we can hope for, but again, I suppose I can look at the numbers in more detail later."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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^ As a note, since I may have misinterpreted your question:
1.) In ScumChat Mini Mafia, all the cultists constantly protected their Cult Leader and other cultists (except for when Fritzler gave up and hammered his own Cult Leader,butwith the knowledge that he could just role-block me anyways).
2.) In Wheel of Time Mafia, all the cultists constantly protected their Cult Leader and other cultists (as two of them had investigatory roles, and essentially fixed their results so as to essentially "clear" the Cult Leader and themselves)."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Question for Zindie:
You seem to favor Option #2, which is:
Okay, so this leaves the town with (assuming Killer hits Cult):Zindaras wrote:2: Lynching killing scum would then require the other killing role to attempt to kill Cult. There's a chance of there being 2 Cult and a chance of there being 1 Cult. The killer won't be able to take the chance of there being 2 Cult and thus will have to look for Cult to kill.
2 Town
1 Cult (or Town)
1 Killer
In that situation, we would have to lynch the Killer D6. Then night would pass with nothing. Then we would have to lynch the Cultist D6.
Your plan involves the town lynching a Killer today, having the second killer kill Cult N5 (note: if this fails, thecult wins), lynching the second Killer D6, and lynching the last Cult on D7. Chances are this will be next to impossible. If we lynch in the wrong order D6 (i.e. the cultist before the Killer), we lose. If we lynch a townsperson, we lose. If we lynch wrong today, we lose.
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I think the town is better served trying to lynch a Cultist today.
If one killer hits the other, but the second hits Cult, then there is guaranteed to be no more cultists left, and there is only 1 killer left against 2 townspeople. This gives the town a very good 1/3 shot at lynching the remaining killer and winning.
If one killers hits town, and the other hits Cult, there are no more cultists, and we are left with a 1 townsperson v 1 killer v 1 killer. In that situation, the town will No-Lynch, and the killers will be forced to try to kill each other. If they are successful, the town wins.
If both killers kill each other, there will be 2 townspeople v 1 Cult. Again, a nice 1/3 chance at lynching correctly.
If both killers hit different townspeople, then we are probably screwedunlessthere was only one cultist to begin with. This means it would still be possible for there to be a Prisoner's Dilemma of 1 Townsperson v 1 killer v 1 killer, where the town will No-Lynch hoping for the killers to kill each other.
If both killers target the same person, this clearly throws wrenches in the numbers, but these possibilities aremuchmore town-oriented that trying to lynch a killer today."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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In general, I agree. Cultists are insanely difficult to lynch, simply because before recruitment, they were pro-town.
However, I do think somebody was recruited to the cult on Night One (or else spec/kleb would have had a third "X is scum" accusation), so weshouldbe able to analyze people's play from Day Two, Day Three, and Day Four to search for one cultist. If there was a successful recruit on Night Four, there is really not much we can do but hope we lynch that person through happenstance, or hope that they are suddenly pushing a subtle pro-cult agenda today which could tip us off.
I have been considering mass-claiming for a while. What do others think about this? This could feasibly help us pinpoint scum of some sort. Even if this catches us killing scum, say, that will in turn narrow down the choices for possible cult-scum."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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