Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Tammy]

Tammy, please confirm deletion of the Abiltiy PM you sent to Vi. We can salvage this and have you come out as confirmed town who can't be killed tonight....


Help me play to win? Please?

It's deleted. Kay.

I happen to believe Tammy's claim in terms of country and name. I don't think that they're open and shut like other people are suggesting, first our first three scum flips have all been red, but I don't believe that scum are going to be all red, there'll be one or two from some other country. Second, taking a brief peruse of the provided flavor there are some rather uncomplimentary things said about the king of Kelvas and it'd be a likelier country to find a traitor/scum aligned player in. Third, the claimed power has to be a town power but the "use it at night" crowd is forgetting that it'll be drastically harder to confirm at night which doesn't really move the needle either way while using it during the day will pretty much confirm her.

Regarding my character, it does say in my role pm something about betrayals and not being on good terms with anyone really, but that the Empress demanded my presence.

Also, Tammy, I really don't know how many more times I have to say this, but Alchemist's opinion is literally not worth listening to you. The fact that he asked you to replace out is probably a compliment. As you indicated with your conviction in going after Implosion/Nexus, you've been historically more accurate than almost anyone in this game. Stick it out and shove it in Alch's face afterwards.

Thanks Glork.

[Tammy]

God I hate paraphrasing. I'm immune to everything. I leave the game.

[Tammy]

Nope...duck out.

[Tammy]

No problem!

VOTE: singersigner

I'll check back in in a few days or so.

/ate/shitstorm/whateverelseyouwannathrowatme

[Tammy]

My role probably won't flip upon my death. Looking at the roles there's one called Cleric of Daein. I'm not the duck out of Kilvas, so I should just flip my name. When I die though, I'll die. It's just that if someone targets me when I leave, I won't because no one can target me when I leave.

Are you guys actually contemplating whether or not I'm lying. I'm pretty weary of DDD's word of warning to everyone who said for me to use my role at night because it won't be confirmable like it would be during the day.

Regardless, really couldn't care less about dying in this game. If the players I respect think I should use it to proof my ability, I will.

[Tammy]

Regardless, really couldn't care less about dying in this game.

Yeah, you don't really get to use that emoticon against me after the rant you had at me earlier in which you made it very clear how very much you wanted me dead - not because I'm scum just you know cause it sounds cool to you. As far as anti-town play goes, it's rather hypocritical of you anyway. You're just a very nasty person singersigner. I hope one day you get over your bitterness and yourself.

[Tammy]

Regardless, really couldn't care less about dying in this game.

....said the person who self-voted throughout basically all of D2.

Clearly you missed the part about her bitching and moaning about getting lynched and crabbing that it's TOTES RIDIC to even think she's scum. It was ironic, to say the least.

To make it more clear, I never resisted the possibility of getting lynched...it's just quite a change in tone from what she's been saying up til now.

@Tammy... *sigh* I will tell you the same thing I told Glowball last summer: you're acting like a child. You have no concept of not playing the game objectively, and it really reflects in/hurts your play. I may act anti-town at times, I may respond with snark when it's dished out at me first, but when it comes down to it, I don't rely only on my heart and emotions. I meant everything I said D2 about being the best lynch at the time because I was looking at it from an objective perspective and realizing that eventually I would be more of a detriment to town if left alive that much longer with that many conflicting feelings about me (that, and I was quickly losing motivation to care about the game because of how cluttered it was). It's a large game, I'm disposable, and the game is too long to deal with (let alone tolerate) so many emotions.

By the way, I think there are a least of a couple people here who can tell you I'm the first to admit I'm far from perfect. But I DO think I can get over a few people thinking I'm scummy, instead of turning around and crying about it. I just want you to learn, really. You witnessed Haylen's dismay over being mislynched in TM, and shouting that people needed to "read her better"...but there's an issue with the foundation when you can't convince people that you're town (when you're town). It's then that you need to examine yourself and start improving from there instead of shouting at how wrong people are.
(I say this assuming more than just scum are pushing for your lynch, since obviously they have another objective >_>)

I'm seriously trying to reason with you here. I really do want to help you improve. Maybe I'm not the person you'll listen to because I don't have the reputation, or because you disagree with the way I've been playing the game, or whatever. But please, understand that no matter what advice I give you, the best thing for this game

right now

is to stop cluttering the thread with so many emotions.

For everyone who posts walls...if it can be said in one sentence, please don't say it in five... >_>

You know...whatever. I do know how to view the game objectively. I admitted that the first few hours of my game here were not stellar. Do I always deal with suspicion well? No, but I'm working on it. Am I temperamental, yes. I fully 100% absolutely admit that I am. Doesn't mean I'm not decent at this game. Some people are overaggressive, overbearing assholes. I'm a bit emotional, so what? But being insulted for no reason? Nah, fuck that. Being wagoned because I didn't post in this game immediately after it opened, when I didn't even enter Theme Park and only logged on for a few minutes to ask a question one night? Nah, fuck that. I wasn't even prodded. I can deal with suspicion. Hell I've nearly been lynched and been fine; I've had rational, non emotional, wall wars and been fine. But having several people hounding me because I asked a question in a thread, supposedly ruthlessly bussed my godfather in TM, and was busy last week but stayed my ground about my main suspect until someone offered sound reasoning for why they shouldn't be lynched and was still active just not overactive...nah fuck that.

I might be part emotional player, but I contend that actually makes me a somewhat of a better player because it helps me read people. I'm not saying that I always read people correctly, but I'm sometimes quite accurate and I really think it's because I walk the line between logic and emotion. Maybe it's a little annoying, but lots of personalities are annoying in this game. I don't particularly enjoy seeing an entire page of spam posts by Alchemist bragging about how many posts he has and is so obvtown in this game, but whatever I deal with it, not gonna insult him for it or tell him I wished he was dead or would replace out over it.

Seriously, look at this series of events...tell me that something's not fucked up with it.

@DDDP - That's why.

I have another question, why did the Tammy wagon originally fall apart? Looking back it's filled with lots of town names and no confirmed scum.

@Tierce, and we trust that LLD is town as well?

If you're talkin about Nik its not like he went BAM COPPED.

I'm more eyeraised at the salivating masses.

@DDD: Because Tammy is sooo town youguys

@DDDP - We don't. That's why I said likely.

Can't say I have any sort of faith in LLD here given what I know and how strongly I disagree about SpyreX and how she's sloppily sitting on the wagon of awful.

VOTE: Tammy

Wait wait wait

Like... seriously?

UNVOTE: UberNinja
VOTE: Tammy

And the wagon went on from there.

If this is all town. Like I'm flabbergasted. And as far as anti-town goes. I had a scum read on scum-Implosion, scum-Nexus. I expressed doubts on scum-Shmugen and vague doubts about apparently scum-Duplicity. I might have an emotional outburst or two, but anti-town I am not. Childish, I am not. Emotional, okay I am. Not gonna lie or pretend about that. And everyone who was on it was attacking me for various reasons that didn't make sense to me.

Just think about it from my pov. Look at the entirety of this day (Tuesday's) posts. A flash counter wagon started on me solely based on the fact that Sunday night I posted two posts in another thread but didn't post here. Please explain to me how in what possible universe that is indicative of scum. Tierce claimed that I was posting in games on site (I didn't even log in here yesterday), which I wasn't with the exception of those quick two posts, to prove that I was scum. And people actually followed here and pushed it. Look at the way some people were acting towards me. Were they rational? People were willing to lynch me because I posted in a thread other than this one. Think about this. And if you think I'm scum or even suspicious for it, read the posts that I posted on Sunday night. Hell, read my site activity for all of last week when I was supposedly so erratic and unTammy like to be obvscum because I wasn't wall posting.

Not one of the people voting me did anything other than call me a liar, tell me to claim, insult me for something or other, insinuate some random suspicious behavior that doesn't actually apply if you look at anything as a whole, and you call me

anti-town

?

Yeah, that probably took more than enough sentences to say. But, CES once told me that I use a whole lot of words to say nothing, so, meh.

[Tammy]

sigh.

hindu i don't suppose you want to join me on lld since you're not voting now? i'd go greyice too but I don't think enough people would actually go with it to get a lynch today.

Gamma - really not sure what I think about you at the moment, but I'd be willing to lynch LLD if we don't lynch Singer or DDD.

/inb4anyofyouidiotsdon'trealizeIhadascumreadonherdayonebutwhatever

[Tammy]

Oh and if LLD ever flips scum - please look back at how Tierce discredited my initial possible scum read on Shmugen and LLD. It was subtle and metabased but it was there and deserves attention in the case of LLD being scum.

[Tammy]

Can't, Gamma. I looked at her D2 or N1 or something because I wanted to see about it and saw something that made me think she was town.

Vote: UN

And yet you were willing to derp wagon me today.

[Tammy]

Can't, Gamma. I looked at her D2 or N1 or something because I wanted to see about it and saw something that made me think she was town.

Vote: UN

And yet you were willing to derp wagon me today.

You're very easy to get reactions out of and you were chilling and not claiming. There was no way I was not hopping on that wagon, no matter how many times I had to.

Cool...cool. So, you didn't really have a scum read, but it was all worth it as long as you got my claim.

[Tammy]

Oh wait...so you read through LLD and find why she might be town according to you, but you're ready to flash wagon me over I'm not sure what this activity jump is. More votes always do help out a claim...you're right.

So, in all other respects, you're calm and reasonable and you research, but today you went FLASH WAGON AHEAD. Just want to make sure about that.

[Tammy]

Vig, I swear to god, if you're part of this wrong, you better damn well be making it right.

Hindu, is there a reason you seem against a Nexus lynch today when you posted this yesterday?

Code: Select all

Dramonic
Nexus

Meh. Toasty raged when I put him on lynch before too and he was town then. This is pretty similar. Yes, we need a fucking lynch. But it's dumb to lynch someone because you're too lazy to switch over.

Unvote; Vote: Dramonic

I'll also hammer Hippo or Nexus.

Yes, there is. From the way the wagon's going, the way Oman's wagon is going, and how Oman's been "the more likely to flip scum" in almost every comparison I've seen, I'm pretty sure Nexus is town.

So, Hindu...just want to look at how careful and reasonable you've been in previous days. Here's what you thought about Nexus yesterday. You thought Nexus was pretty sure to flip town based on your "evidence". But, today, you were willing to flash wagon me based on whatever, faulty meta, and force me to ability claim.

Can you explain to me please the differences in your approaches for the days?

[Tammy]

Implosion read is sort of interesting.

You're chasing the wrong thing. I can tell. Please stop clogging the thread.

So, was he chasing the wrong thing? Was Implosion the wrong thing?

[Tammy]

So, wait, you tell me that I'm easy to get a reaction out of. That you did it to get my claim and now you're mad because I'm questioning your behavior?

I never once was blaming you for being wrong. I've handed games to scum before.

What I'm questioning is how you go from saying various scum are innocent. Being cautious about other people's reads, but then thinking that it's fun to get me to react to claim.

Hindu - Why don't you read the things you said to me today, and then read over the questions I've just asked you. All I'm trying to figure out is your thought process. You suspected me, wanted to lynch me and get me to claim, and I'm not allowed to figure out who was on my wagon and why?

[Tammy]

I am absolutely, 100%, not making fun of you for being wrong Hindu. Like I said, I've literally handed scum games before. I would never make fun of someone for being wrong.

I'm really trying to figure out your thought process. ML said today you were one of the voices of reason; hell I argued for you being likely town on day one when a couple people claimed you might be scum.

I'm just literally confused that someone who has been so thoughtful, and supposedly is so say with LLD just now, wouldn't be in this case. I claimed to have a nation yesterday, twice said I got an ability out of the blue, pushed Nexus for more information for a claim because of it, which I even stated, and today said that I believed I was on the mafia hitlist. I just don't understand how someone who has been so thoughtful decided to think it was fun to try to get a claim and a reaction out of me. And, fine, RL excuses suck, but did you actually look at my site activity that Tierce posted, because I can't believe anyone could look at that and think I was avoiding the thread. Why would I avoid this thread? I wasn't being pressured, which is usually when people avoid threads for alignment purposes. I just didn't come here on Sunday night when the thread had just opened. And, I didn't even log on yesterday, so I wasn't posting in games. That was a lie.

It might have been obvious to you that you wouldn't get anywhere near a lynch, it wasn't obvious to me. And you had to know that was true because you said I'm easy to get a reaction out of. (I'm not reading anything that Tim posts for the rest of the game...or the rest of the time that I'm alive so don't really care what his picture was).

But, was it worth it. You've been careful and thoughtful about everything else, but pushed for a reaction here. I pulled up your thoughts on the dead scum, not to make fun of you but to figure out your thought process, because to me with you going after me for the funsie reactions but being really thoughtful about scum I don't know what to make of you or your alignment right now.

[Tammy]

Nope! Tierce. You don't get to say I'm breaking the rules, when you POSTED MY SITE ACTIVITY. If you post my site activity, I'm allowed to say that I asked a question in that site activity that you posted. I'm allowed to say, please read what I posted in the site activity that you posted to prove my guilt. I don't see how you think it's appropriate to post my site activity, wagon me for it, but I'm prohibited to say what was in the site activity which you posted.

You need to take responsibility for what you did. If you are town, you started a counter wagon on me, which was the result of activity which for some reason you decided I was guilty for during a week when I was busy and for someone who reads every single game on site it should be apparent that I was, you pull up my site activity which proves nothing at all other than I logged on and posted in one game and wasn't even prodded in this one, brought in incomplete team mafia meta to use against me (seriously, did you read the team qt...did you read the discussion as someone who actually knows me thought I couldn't be scum because of bussing because it actually goes against my personality)....yeah scum meta....did you know that argument was real from my end? No, Okay.

It does not matter what you say your read on me was. As I've shown, you posted my site activity, which was a sum total of two posts in one game on Sunday night, said Oh Really and voted me. Others followed suit. You said I was posting in other games on site while this one was exploding. I didn't even read this game until today.

If you had doubts about me for whatever reasons you could have interacted with me, but you didn't. You posted my site activity and helped to start a wagon on me based on that. You don't get to now go, oh but there were secret reasons.

I didn't need to post any kind of notice here because I still posted within game expectations. It doesn't matter if for a few days I didn't post several times per day, it was pretty damn evident I was keeping up with the thread and posting on a regular basis.

But as long as we're going to play semantics, doesn't this post show that you know I'm town. I mean I can't have lingering doubts of you being scum, if I am, in fact, scum right?

@Tammy: Christ, if you still have some kind of nagging feeling I'm scum, you have too much respect for my poor unfortunate scum play.

If you are town, you did suspect me wrongly. But, it's not that you suspected me, but the manner in which you went about it and rallied the troops and fueled the fire. You can't pretend that you didn't. And, I'm not going to blame anyone for me breaking down and name claiming, and MoI might think it was a stupid thing to do - I might beg to differ - but still I left enough hints yesterday that I had something, that I belonged to a country, and today that I thought I might be on the list, and all that was ignored in favor of the Tammy must be scum let's make her claim manhandle her to get her to show us her power insult and force her to submit tell her to replace out because she sucks. And no, you weren't insulting. Condescending, yes, but I'm condescending myself in my own right so I'll give you a hard time about it but I won't take offense. I don't have any ill will against you either and enjoy playing with you. But, still you helped to fuel it and there was no legitimate reason for it. Suspicion? Fine. Full crusade against me? No. Throwing up faulty evidence to start a counterwagon? No.

You literally said that you knew I was going to say I only post in games that I find interesting. You literally said that. You had no idea that I didn't actually read this game until the time that I started posting, and you were saying what you

knew

I was going to say. It's a sentiment I've never said. I've only ever said that I don't post in every single game every day, and sometimes if a game is nearing deadline I pay more attention to that game or if there's something major going on in a game I pay more attention to it. You claimed there was no excuse for me not to post, but I hadn't read the game. Those aren't accidental misreps Tierce, those are full blown mischaracterizations, and if you can't look at the sequence of events and see how I find it damn suspicious, well I don't know what to say. And I find your behavior along with DDD's behavior, the timing of it, the circumstances of it, everything, extremely suspect.

[Tammy]

Sunday night. I was on for like 10 minutes Sunday night. If this game would have even entered my mind on Sunday, I would have used my role. When I got the role, I thought to myself how stupid I would feel if I didn't use my role the day I got it and was targeted for a kill. And, I went and forgot anyway, partly because I was busy and partly because I have a tendency to forget about my roles because I'm an idiot.

I'm not 100% clear on your role. I'm literally dumb when it comes to role issues. When I leave at night does that mean you're safe too?

[Tammy]

Oh, and Tim entered mean spirited, so yeah, not gonna read his posts. If something is important, pretty sure someone will repeat it. I don't care if that's anti-town.

[Tammy]

Why did you do that? I don't understand why you would die. How am I supposed to leave if my leaving kills someone else?

[Tammy]

But I'm still confused. Why will you die when I leave? And why would you even do that. Who cares if you're role is a piece of shit. Why would you do something that would make you die?

[Tammy]

You need to take responsibility for what you did. If you are town, you started a counter wagon on me, which was the result of activity which for some reason you decided I was guilty for during a week when I was busy and for someone who reads every single game on site it should be apparent that I was, you pull up my site activity which proves nothing at all other than I logged on and posted in one game and wasn't even prodded in this one, brought in incomplete team mafia meta to use against me (seriously, did you read the team qt...did you read the discussion as someone who actually knows me thought I couldn't be scum because of bussing because it actually goes against my personality)....yeah scum meta....did you know that argument was real from my end? No, Okay.

I did take responsibility.

I read your QT, I read up on Zar. Hell, I read the No Pressure team QT, which is walls and walls of AIM logs. Everyone I play with will tell you that I usually do my research.

You're rubbing stuff in, Tammy. You're enjoying being proven right, and that's fine, but understand that this is a game and

people will be wrong at times

. I apologized if I crossed a line, but I won't let you walk all over me because 'I was wrong and you were right'. We're in the middle of the game, and that conversation is not furthering town goals. You're setting yourself up in a position of moral high ground and going at

Hinduragi

, who is one of the most calm, collected and patient players I know, to rub stuff in his face. Please save that kind of attitude for post-game. I won't be replying to any further inflammatory posts from you, because as I've said, I'm here to have fun and win and those posts are not helping me achieve that.

I am really sorry if it came across that way. That was not my intention with either you or Hindu, as I told Hindu this morning. I've been wrong so many times that I wouldn't rub it in someone's face that they were. I saw behavior that was suspect and was trying to determine the motivations for it. If I was wrong about both of your motivations, that's cool I can accept that. I'm not afraid of being wrong, and I really didn't intend to offend either of you. I hate that he attached himself to me and if I leave he dies. I really really wish he wouldn't have done that.

[Tammy]

Going to avoid Alchemist because Timeeater is an arrogant pile of shit and I'll wait and see on his attempts at "change."

[Tammy]

Welp that would put to rest any theories that Duplicity was the day killer. What's interesting is that he was killed night two. Need to think.

[Tammy]

"Duplicity is scum" - UberNinja

Pretty sure this was day one. UN thought Dup was scum on day one, could be a reason for the track.

The fact that Dup died night two though is troubling. I mean he looked mostly town, I was only hesitant to say obvtown for meta reasons, so he'd be a decent night kill either way, but still.

Spyrex - I hope you're right about Hindu not dying.

[Tammy]

LLD - Why did you investigate Spyrex when you thought he was town?

Hindu - Did you find out if you really would die if I left? Can you unattach yourself from me in that case. I don't want you to die.

[Tammy]

LLD - Why did you investigate Spyrex when you thought he was town?

Hindu - Did you find out if you really would die if I left? Can you unattach yourself from me in that case. I don't want you to die.

It's funny because you believed I thought he was town.

That's cool.

[Tammy]

^^^This makes sense. I remember him talking about hoping to get something after I talked about getting something after Shmu's death.

[Tammy]

Scummuter? I mean, I guess it might make sense.

Or he was Rolestopped.

Or he's hands-down untargetable because he's some alien horror. Would fit with daykilling. ._.

But if he was a day killer then why would UN's night track come back with no result basically? (or whatever weird wording that was)

[Tammy]

Ah, it just seems weird that it would mess with a night tracker result. If he's a daykiller then he wouldn't go anywhere at night so there would be no reason to have messed up results.

Was that the one where Chesskid dayvigged him or something? I read after that when my teammate replaced in.

[Tammy]

I don't care if he has fire and hatred for my slot, this feels really wrong. I've been calling him town all game.

VOTE: Spyrex

[Tammy]

I don't care if he has fire and hatred for my slot, this feels really wrong. I've been calling him town all game.

VOTE: Spyrex

When you post like this its fine.

I know its been said with more heat than I can give or you probably warrant but the whole fuck off vibe isn't fun for anyone. Even if it wins games (and it doesn't in and of itself) it loses the greater picture.

Remember its a fun game and have fun and

try to be part of everyone else having fun.

Hell look at this even if its wrong this wagon has the most reason to go through of any wagon we'll see all game and almost everyone is sad about it.

That says something and warms my cockles.

Which is hilarious considering its me being lynched.

Hmmm...I don't always have a fuck off vibe; it's not fun for me either. Maybe a couple times in a game cuz temperamental, but usually overall my posts are more like this. Okay wait, I'm condescending, but sometimes I get set off balance and have a hard time getting it back. See here.

But thanks.

This still feels wrong. Well if you do turn out to be scum then it's right, and I'll feel like an idiot for calling you town, but yeah.

[Tammy]

I've been trying to hold myself to this: dont treat people any different than how you would treat them in real life

I wont adhom. But if someone continually adhoms me I feel like I have to defend my honor somehow. Tammy, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings with my remark. I dont appreciate being called an idiot.

Sorry for calling you an idiot. You were funny in the beginning of the game.

[Tammy]

What happened to our kumbaya day? We were supposed to frolick and paint pictures and be shiny, happy people. Not ten minutes?

Singersigner - Kind of confused. You say you've already listed the people you'd vote for. UN was on the list, but you now say you're disinclined to vote him.

Don't really know what to make of UN. Glork and Tierce make a good point, but he does remind me of how he acted in CN to a certain extent at times. I won't vote him now. I need to think and besides that would put him at L-2.

I'm V/LA through Wednesday. I have family visiting from out of town. I might get to post, but I'm not promising anything. And just so there's no crazy shenanigans like yesterday, I have two games with deadlines during my V/LA or are near endgame. If I only have a few moments to post, I'm posting there first. (I should be able to at least keep up with the game though; you'll just be free of any walls or much in the way of thoughts from me for a few days )

[Tammy]

*sigh*

Hindu apparently doesn't die when I leave. I left the night before last and he's fine.

I took a chance and didn't use it last night in case this was still an issue.

Since I didn't use it last night, I can use it today if you guys still need confirmation.

[Tammy]

*sigh*

Hindu apparently doesn't die when I leave. I left the night before last and he's fine.

I took a chance and didn't use it last night in case this was still an issue.

Since I didn't use it last night, I can use it today if you guys still need confirmation.

Wait what?

What do you need explained?

[Tammy]

Are we sure that it's a scum ability?

DDD said he had a role that was confirmable right? Although he hasn't been back around.

[Tammy]

Okay why are we just accepting that the only possible reason for no night kill is that Alchemist blocked Grey Ice?

Three nights ago when Duplicity was killed there was just one night kill. Now since Duplicity was killed, the scum kill went through and the kill that was missing was Duplicity's kill. Unless we're going to accept/assume that Duplicity had limited kills, a block couldn't have caused him to miss his kill, right? Or am I missing something?

If there are reasons to accept that Grey is scum independent of that, I can see it, but I'm not convinced.

Does this sound like Nexus' partner?

Oh for gods sake

Don't you assholes dare say that you don't see it

His scum reads were the largest wagon at the time
And the one person in the game attacking him

THE LARGEST WAGON AND THE ONLY PERSON ATTACKING HIM

COULD THESE SCUM READS GET ANY LAZIER?

FUCK YOU ALL

VOTE: NEXUS

HE'S PROBABLY TOWN

BECAUSE YOU'RE IDIOTS

BUT I DON'T GIVE A FUCK

THERE ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?

[Tammy]

There was a missing kill that night too. Shouldn't there have been two kills the night Duplicity died? There was only one, which means Duplicity's intended kill - assuming he could kill each night - was blocked.

[Tammy]

We know that he could kill at night because Uberninja tracked him to Implosion night one.

[Tammy]

Okay. I just wanted to make sure we were thinking it through and not rushing. After the Spyrex and the UN lynch, I'm feeling a little more cautious than usual.

[Tammy]

I think there has to be an empress though Gamma. My role pm specifically states that I'm here at the demand of the empress.

[Tammy]

An enabler?

[Tammy]

Hmm. There's no passive ability mentioned. It just says something about me having betrayed a lot of people and I've fallen out with most everyone but the Empress demanded that I be here. I don't really want to fight but people are getting disinterested in the fight and who they're supposed to kill.

[Tammy]

We targeted DDD last night.
We did not block his death, or we wouldn't be here.

~P

Why did you choose DDD?

[Tammy]

Fascinating and boring.

@TSH- Okay that makes sense.

For any of you who have roles who have already outed them or hinted them, could you look at the wiki for your character and see if your ability happens to just be mentioned in the first paragraph of the wiki?

[Tammy]

Alchemist - The other night after I claimed, I responded to DDD here and told him that my role pm says that the Empress demanded my presence. You were here for the conversation, as you can see you responded a couple times after I posted this, and responded to my ability. You didn't say anything about the Empress. Now, I'm not saying I expected you to claim you were the empress, but if you were I would imagine that bit would have at least peaked your interest if I said my role pm explicitly mentioned your character.

I happen to believe Tammy's claim in terms of country and name. I don't think that they're open and shut like other people are suggesting, first our first three scum flips have all been red, but I don't believe that scum are going to be all red, there'll be one or two from some other country. Second, taking a brief peruse of the provided flavor there are some rather uncomplimentary things said about the king of Kelvas and it'd be a likelier country to find a traitor/scum aligned player in. Third, the claimed power has to be a town power but the "use it at night" crowd is forgetting that it'll be drastically harder to confirm at night which doesn't really move the needle either way while using it during the day will pretty much confirm her.

Regarding my character, it does say in my role pm something about betrayals and not being on good terms with anyone really, but that the Empress demanded my presence.

I don't think I get confirmation but that seems irrelevant unless I'm roleblocked(lol).

Transparency is more important than accuracy

Flexibility is more important than consistency

Glork is oldgen.

God I hate paraphrasing. I'm immune to everything. I leave the game.

Do you...Warp Out?

lol

[Tammy]

I did

not

have it at the start of the game.

Fixed.

If you got an ability after the game started, how come when the wagon was growing on me and I was talking about gaining an ability in the middle of day two, you were telling people to vote me?

[Tammy]

Hey Tammy.

Crazy ass Vi game

24 motherfuckers to mow through

Unlikely to be one scum team

Discuss.

If GreyIce does turn out to be scum, this number here might have been a slip and could let us know how many scum members are left? We started with 29 people. Where'd he get the number 24 from? 5 scum maybe?

[Tammy]

Hi Vi can we has Glork back now? .____.

[Tammy]

Uh...Teleporting Speed Hippos?

[Tammy]

I've already country claimed, but just for reference, I'm not from any of the countries you listed.

Also,

Order of my blocks:

N1 = Benmage
N2 = Tammy
N3 = Katsuki
N4 = GreyIce
N5 = ToastyToast

Compare that to Toasty xD

[Tammy]

What's weird is that Rhinox came back from Crimea.

[Tammy]

I've left more than once and Hindu's still alive, so apparently he doesn't die when I leave.

[Tammy]

I do actually have a limited role that I can use day or night and as soon as I send the message to Vi and he gets it, it will be confirmed to the damn thread.

You said you left/commuted on previous nights, and there was no confirmation of this ever happening. Does your role really indicate that your action is modconfirmed?

We can confirm if you actually have this role by causing a commute during the day (though, er, dead Naesala at night != good thing, so this needs to be thought through), see what happens to your vote--but we never had any sort of confirmation that this role exists.


In the interest of full disclosure, I attempted to 'target' DDDP last night.

Just so you know, I find it very very suspicious those who try to get me to confirm my role by having me leave during the day. You know it leaves me absolutely unprotected at night, and you and DDD keep bringing it up.

You also seem to be certain that there is a roleblocker that is scum, which is raising alarm bells.

Also, you seem to have a very quick knowledge of where things are that I've said and that coupled with your behavior a couple days ago keeps me thinking that you're trying to set me up Tierce.

I think scum know the only way to kill me is to get me lynched or get me to use my commute during the day to kill me at night.

In fact, I left the night there was no kill. I was trying to tell the thread this when it was locked a few nights ago as it provided a potential alternative to why there was no kill that night. And, no Vi doesn't tell me that I successfully leave when I leave. If I was blocked I wouldn't know it. Why would you even ask that?

[Tammy]

That in no way, in this game or last, was a questioning of your intelligence Tierce. It's me being suspicious of your behavior. At no point in time, did I say or even think "Tierce is too dumb to notice these things." If you take it that way, that's your thing.

I have explained everything about my character and my ability that I possibly can. No, when I leave at night, there is not going to be anything in the thread that states this. I never once implied that there would be. In fact, the whole Hindu thing was brought up as a way to confirm it at night because that would be

the only way to confirm it at night

. I'm actually quite confused that you think it would be confirmed in thread. No commuter role that I have ever seen has been confirmed in thread when they leave at night.

If I leave during the day, it will be confirmed in thread, because

I will leave

. I will not be able to post, I will not be able to vote, I will not be able to do anything in the game until the next day, and I cannot be lynched. But, if I leave during the day, I come back at night and am left unprotected. I'd also have to not leave the night before I leave during the day because I can't use it for consecutive phases, which would leave me unprotected two nights in a row. If I'm not actually on the target list, this isn't an issue, but since I'm a leader and got this ability in the middle of day two, I'm going to believe that I am.

pedit: There are no conspiracy theories attitudes. I'm going to note what I see as suspicious behavior when I see it. And, I don't really see genuine scumhunting from you here Tierce. I see you keep returning to me over and over and not taking anything into account that should be making you doubt your possible scum read on me, if that's what you truly have. Quite frankly, I don't know how you can't look at the night of the two Sanaki claims and see that I was trying to make sense of the claims and determine which one was telling the truth. I don't even know if you have any other scum reads, because you seem to just keep returning to me by default, and yeah I find it rather suspicious behavior. (And no before you ask, I don't have great scum reads right now. You're pinging my radar, and it's something I've been mulling over more seriously since the UN lynch. But my major scum reads are dead, GreyIce was a town read who was scum and LLD was a scum read who apparently is town, so I have some reassessing I need to do.)

[Tammy]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't leave with me. He's attached to me and my fate. If I die, he dies. Or that's how I understand it. He thought that he would die when I left, but he doesn't.

[Tammy]

Tierce. I'm going to say one more time slowly so maybe you'll understand it. I. In. No. Way. Was. Implying. You. Are. Not. An. Intelligent. Human. Being.

That you keep harping on it just demonstrates you have a level of insecurity in that area, perhaps that's where you're condescending attitude comes from.

I'm not getting prickly because you're suspecting me; I'm looking at your actions overall and some things don't ring true to me. Yes, the night of the Sanaki claim, I saw you immediately vote Alchemist and call him a liar and claim he was playing a fake gambit. Yes, you relented and I didn't say my actions made me obvtown, I just said you're not taking into account things that should have you doubting the scum read you've been trying to place on me the entire game. I understand confirmation bias Tierce, but at some point you have to start taking some things into consideration to realize you're wrong - if that's what this is. And, I'm not voting for you because I'm not sure I believe you're scum; as I said I've been mulling it over for a few days. Some things make sense and some things don't. But, don't act like I'm the only person who gets prickly when suspected.

[Tammy]

Why Gamma Singer?

[Tammy]

Heh...I didn't think it sounded snarky. I really haven't had much of a strong read on him throughout the game though I've had him as town.

But, like I said to Tierce, I have some reassessing to do. My strong scum reads are dead. I was wrong about GreyIce and am apparently wrong about LLD.

Nothing has really struck me as scum for gamma, so I was interested in why he read as scum for you.

[Tammy]

Hmm...so DDD country cops me Night Two. I do believe his claim, as it fits with him saying he believed my country claim on day 3. His wagon rises at the start of day 3. So, he learns that I'm from Kilvas, which is a non-Daein country, and who does he choose to start his counterwagon on?

I have another question, why did the Tammy wagon originally fall apart? Looking back it's filled with lots of town names and no confirmed scum.

@Tierce, and we trust that LLD is town as well?

@DDDP - We don't. That's why I said likely.

Can't say I have any sort of faith in LLD here given what I know and how strongly I disagree about SpyreX and how she's sloppily sitting on the wagon of awful.

VOTE: Tammy

I find it rather interesting that he uses as a reason for why he investigated me that he didn't think much of my votes. Does he mean the votes I placed? Day one was MoI (fine he was town), Implosion (scum), Quilford (town and who I moved to to get a lynch). Day two was Nexus (scum who I only moved from because of the arguments put forth to give another day and a lack of a counterclaim), and Oman and Nexus again.

So, what was so wrong with my votes?

I just really don't follow the town logic of country copping me, finding out that I'm from a non-Daien nation, and the very next day starting a counter wagon on me.

[Tammy]

Glork - Do you think it's possible that Duplicity was able to kill at day and at night or would that be impossible?

[Tammy]

So, he learns that I'm from Kilvas, which is a non-Daein country, and who does he choose to start his counterwagon on?

I think I've made it very clear that I don't think scum is entirely from Daein and that there are numerous false positives and negatives and when I examined the provided flavor for your country it seemed one of the more likely choices for non-Red scum.

Hmm...interesting. You have your theory and I have mine. I think it's entirely plausible that you, as scum, could have country copped me and found out that I was from Kilvas. You could have then pushed for my lynch to either get me to claim to learn who I was from Kilvas and find out if I was the person on your target list or get me lynched as a death is a death so it wouldn't really matter. Your continual bringing up the idea for me to use my ability during the day to confirm myself and leave myself completely vulnerable at night makes this possibility more likely to me.

Now, of course, there's the possibility that you're just a very paranoid townie but the fact that you were willing to start a counterwagon and lynch me on the basis of a theory that you have about the make up of the scum team makes that very doubtful.

Almost every single member of the scum team has come back red - from Daein. Duplicity came back blue and self-aligned. GreyIce, however, came back not red. He came back from Hatari, and the flavor on the first page says that she has ties to both Serenes and Daein and hasn't picked a side in the war.

Interesting, so one person did come back not solely red. Tell me, what led you to come up with this theory that at least one member of the scum team would come back not Daein?

[Tammy]

Skimmed iso hippo reaction to the sanaki stuff was pretty bad

He'd sooner believe GI over one of his supposed "townreads" in alchy.

sighhhhhhhhh someone else read this gut isn't picking up any particularly STRONG scum vibes but some things make me feel a bit uneasy.

I've felt quite uneasy about TSH for a bit now, but I'm willing to accept that's paranoia on my end.

I don't know why they were unable to protect Alchemist and not sure about the Chaos thing. Do bodyguards typically get told when they're bodyguarding abilities would no longer work?

Why would they assume they had been roleblocked anyway?

Also, why are they trying to either fish for more information on my ability or say that wifom was included to lynch me? If they assume they've been roleblocked, then they know my ability has limitations. If I am on the list, and scum has a roleblocker, all they have to do is block me - I can't leave - and then kill me. That hasn't happened, so either I'm not on the list or they don't have a roleblocker anymore. And, I'm rather inclined to think that GreyIce was the roleblocker.

But, this could be paranoia talking.

[Tammy]

Now, excuse me--but we're missing a kill, I think? We got the Alchemist-blocked-GreyICE one, but there is at least one other night with a missing kill IIRC.

Alchemist blocked Toasty the night before last and there was no kill. I left that night as well, so I just want to make sure that was put into consideration for the missing kill before we jump to conclusions on the Toasty front.

The other night we're missing a kill is night two - If we assume Duplicity could kill each night, his kill was potentially missed that night.

[Tammy]

I find it rather interesting that he uses as a reason for why he investigated me that he didn't think much of my votes. Does he mean the votes I placed? Day one was MoI (fine he was town), Implosion (scum), Quilford (town and who I moved to to get a lynch). Day two was Nexus (scum who I only moved from because of the arguments put forth to give another day and a lack of a counterclaim), and Oman and Nexus again.

So, what was so wrong with my votes?

Also, noted, you didn't answer this question DDD.

[Tammy]

Your continual bringing up the idea for me to use my ability during the day to confirm myself and leave myself completely vulnerable at night makes this possibility more likely to me.

This isn't really accurate, my first and only goal is confirmation of your ability. You should note that I proposed a plan to allow you to use your ability at night and for Hindu to confirm it; except that Hindu fucked the plan up. Given that your claim is the reason you were really let off the hook on D3 and we've had no independent verification of said ability I think it's reasonable to want to see the proof.

You did offer a potential solution; that is true. I have been as up front as I possibly can be, and told more of the limitations of my role than I would have liked to, in an effort to be as transparent and helpful to town as I can. I have also offered twice now to leave during the day. The day of the GI lynch, I offered to leave for proof after Hindu didn't die the night I left. I, however, am much less willing to leave during the day for proof now that we've had a couple more deaths of people who are potentially on the list. If you are town, I hope that you can understand why. If I am on the list, and Glork is right that there aren't many left, I am not about to help scum achieve their wincon just to satisfy your paranoia.

Also, if you are town, I hope you can understand why I find it suspicious when people do bring it up and want it proofed. Although, funnily enough I find Tierce to be far more suspicious in this regard than you, but that's perhaps because I've read you as town most of the game, and barring some moments of reading her as town I've largely read her as scum and still do. However, some of my faith in my weaker town reads has been shaken after GreyIce came back scum when I read him as town. So, I'm looking at you more suspiciously than I was before, and while I guess I can understand your reasoning for your day 3 push on me, I can still very much see the scum motivation in it as well as I find it very highly likely that scum would have a country cop.

If I didn't think I was on the list, then none of this would matter and I'd plan a time to proof it, and I know there is a possibility I'm not there. But, I am a leader of a nation, my flavor tells me that the empress demanded my presence, and I was given a commuter role in the middle of the second day, which I breadcrumbed immediately afterwards, and the flavor of the ability is that battle is getting too bloodthirsty for my liking. All of this tells me that the likelihood of me being on the list is high, and I don't want to take any chances, especially if there aren't many others left. (And we just potentially lost two due to modkills and nightkills)

That being said, if we get to a point where it becomes necessary to proof it because I'm an unknown to the people still alive and we're getting down on numbers, then we can discuss it again, but right now I think it's more important that I stay alive.

[Tammy]

I find it rather interesting that he uses as a reason for why he investigated me that he didn't think much of my votes. Does he mean the votes I placed? Day one was MoI (fine he was town), Implosion (scum), Quilford (town and who I moved to to get a lynch). Day two was Nexus (scum who I only moved from because of the arguments put forth to give another day and a lack of a counterclaim), and Oman and Nexus again.

So, what was so wrong with my votes?

Also, noted, you didn't answer this question DDD.

There's nothing OMG she's scum about the votes, but you moved off scum onto a town mislynch and while I've said the Nexus/Oman movement isn't inherently scummy it's not town either it's just rational. All in all the votes certainly are the sort where you have lots of question marks and make for a good investigation.

I regret moving from Implosion to Quilford, and when I accidentally voted Implosion a second time in the post that I said I was moving to Quilford I took it as a Freudian slip of sorts that I shouldn't move and should stay with my first instinct (well second, I was convinced MoI was scum). However, I really didn't see any reason to not vote for Quilford that day either and the day had gone very long. I can sort of see your point about Nexus, and if I had moved earlier it would be even more rational; however, I did have to be nearly talked into giving Nexus another day.

Either way, I dont' care that you investigated me; I don't have anything to hide in this game. I'm trying to make sense of you and your motivations.

[Tammy]

No, both Hindu and I would die if I'm targeted. I don't have a bodyguard, he's a one way lover to me. My only protection is being able to leave.

[Tammy]

IoA - I've been reading the dead today. Collecting some bits from their ISO that I want to look at again. (Yes, I read the dead - scum and town - I know some people find it pointless and annoying, I don't.)

Spoiler: Implosion and some interaction between Implosion, Toasty and Magister Ludi

Hi.

Toasty: connection hunting is

bad.

In a 29-player game, the probability that you're going to successfully pick out two scum from a relational tell on day one is practically zero. I always cite Vi's guide when i'm making this point but yeah it should be obvious why and I don't feel like going into why right now.

Toasty is scummy. First of all the way that he voted for UN instead of Tammy in his first post doesn't make sense - he said that he shifts to UN, essentially, because UN called Tammy town. So his suspicion on uberninja is largely dependent on his suspicion of Tammy. On the other hand, he gave independent reasons to be suspicious of Tammy, but didn't vote on them. He votes uberninja essentially for being scum with Tammy. He also talks about the way that Tierce treated uberninja. His comments on post 68 also misinterpret the post in a rather strange way, as calling Tammy town and then voting her. I really feel like if you read something and misread it like that, you'd read it again until you realized what it actually said, and not just go with that being what it is. Unless he's talking about where UN just overtly called Tammy town, but that was after he voted Tammy, and he said later that he forgot his vote had been on Tammy. In fact, he explained that he had forgotten his vote was on tammy

before toasty's post

. Either way, toasty is missing very overt things from the people that he's calling scum.

Also dislike pretty much all of 449.

My first impressions of tammy/un/tierce are all town (tierce more so than the others). Alchemist might be scum. Less so than toasty right now. I'll look at other people later.

VOTE: Toasty

I checked the votecount. I wish Alchemist got more votes, but that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Unvote
Vote: Teleporting Speed Hippos

Alchemist's wagon isn't taking off so you vote someone with no votes on them?

Dramonic is still a good vote. Magister ludi is a meh vote. Greyice is a meh vote.

Also, the blue number went up by two in a matter of about ten posts and four hours, so it's probably not activity-related.

So toasty, instead of finishing that reads list that you said you'd finish you decide to yell at people who are getting annoyed at it.

Unvote, vote: toasty

We need to lynch someone already. We're going to be more productive in getting good reads once we have info.

Wyrd's town, dddp could be scum too.

tierce and glork are town, but really, that should go without saying. Oversoul is also town. Zdenek is also probably town.

hi alchemist.

Vote for toasty.

I'm not voting dramonic anymore. And I explained the vote in 890.

I think town are more likely to prefer posts with content over implosion’s posts.

Look me in the eyes and tell me that you read the entirety of every one of Magna's/tammy's/other wall posters' posts.

I moved my vote back to you because I want a lynch, the dramonic wagon isn't moving, and I still like your wagon. I've explained my votes on all two of the people who i've voted. And why do I have to justify who i'm giving reads on? I'm giving reads as I get them.

Also, a list of people lurking:

DDD, quil, LLD, singer(v/la tho), UN, dram, Wyrd, nexus, oman, nikanor, tsh, GI, implosion (unless he wants to piss me off a little more); this is too much. thats thirteen out of 29.

PEDIT: what you have explained you've explained poorly. You justify reads because its the town thing to do. Yes, but I wrote your section before your vote on me (a fish could've figured that out) and your vote on me just makes you scummier. And the fact that you changed your vote from dram to me does not change my beliefs about you slot, and doesn't in any way change what the dram vote shows. I ISO'd your slot and found sub-par after sub-par statement, and, honestly, thought your posts were more tedious and awful than anything MoI or Tammy have posted. I will at the least skim any long post I see.

Its another reason I like toasty, he's willing to poke at DDD and go *here's somebody*, because he honestly believes there might be scum slipping along in that slot.

You really think it takes any courage to put my name down?

Yes, actually. Considering Toasty is the largest wagon, if he was scum I would easily believe he would hop ship to another large wagon or a more popular lynch wagon. You have no pressure on you, no one really thinks your scum, and its not the most popular wagon to vote. The fact that he is willing to actually poke around and try and find out scum (in this case you), seems pretty pro-town. He isn't just sheeping along.

Finished. You guys seriously need to learn how to back the fuck off. Every time I check the game its some new illogical vote on me that ignores what I say completely. Implosion, UN--learn how to play. Thats not an Ate. Its called being pissed off at all the stupidity in this game. Starting to remind me about why I stopped playing. Also, if you honestly think I can write a long ass opinion piece on all 29 players in the game, know how I solidly feel about their alignments, and respond to every little thing in a reasonable amount of time....ugh. I may not complain about my other commitments as much as Quaoroath or Singer, but if you can give them some time, then you can give me time, too. I posted those 9 reads because they were what I had done, and I didn't know if I would get a chance to finish every read. And honestly, you would probably be voting me if I waited, and would probably had already decided to vote me before I even had my list done.

In order from scummiest to town.

DDD

Implosion: He’s gotten worse with each post, basically. I still don’t know why he’s voting dramonic. No explanation. Why does he explain the vote on me but not the switch to dram? No sense made. Don’t like his long posts suck attitude; I think town are more likely to prefer posts with content over implosion’s posts. I also don’t recall this attitude from him before. The “don’t see Magua votes” comes out of nowhere. May just be a phrasing confusion. Mentions too many people without explaining why, and does not allow anyone to get a grasp on his reads above “I’m voting for this guy.” Last post just threw me over the edge. Of course I’m working on the list. I’m not going to be able to throw it all down in the same time span as a “are you fucking kidding me?” post.

20. Quilford: Stopped doing anything as soon as he didn’t have to defend himself. His “vague, negative feelings” list has no explanations attached, blames lurking on school. Sorry, but that's not going to cut it. Votes me without explaining why his “vague, negative feelings” turned into a vote;
Also, did no one catch the “I don’t know who to vote!” thing? When I started on mafia, that meant the person was probably scum who can’t figure out how to fake a case.

15. MathGirl277/Shmugen: ugh. Really? You are going to harp and focus on things that happened so early? Make something new up, rather than just being a sheep. If I’m going to get crap for my wagon reads early game, then there is no way in hell you should get away with it. Your 3 reads are me, singer, and Ludi. That's just as bad and its like 40 pages in. Who? Hopefully replacement posts soon.

21. GreyICE: Never know what flavor of GreyIce I’m going to get in a game. He seems to be like VOTE KATSUKI every fucking post. Guess what? Saying that is ineffective, and I believe I already attacked others as to why it's a scummy thing to do. I’d say he comes up on the lower end with his banter with katsuki.

LLD

Tierce

singer

14. MaguaofIllusion (MagnaofIllusion + Magua hydra): Don’t understand some of his reads. GreyICE read is odd, since it basically reads like “well, he’s done some scummy things but he’s funny!”; a lot more to say about Tammy than “she’s playing differently” (i.e. Tammy has a ton of content); However, I don’t think he’s spewing BS like some people suggested, and the wagon on him worries me.
(Lurkyland!!)

UN

16. Nexus: Who?

17. Nikanor: Meow?

18. Oman: What?

2. Teleporting Speed Hippos (AurorusVox + PeregrineV hydra): Another super lurky mc lurkerston.

11. Katsuki: Nothing I can say about this slot that hasn’t been said already. I have more problems with the other lurkers, but that doesn’t make his play right.

4. dramonic: seems to have a strong concern over the lore of the game, talked about little else early

Wyrd

Ludi

9. Hinduragi: Explained a little on his earlier, but he’s grown more town on me. I was sketched out after the OS vote, but he explained it well in terms of why he had a problem with the gambit, and why he was unvoting OS later on.

23. SpyreX: Response to MoI convinced me of town status

24. Tammy: My only read that has changed completely. I thought the meta thing was awful, but her more recent posts show much more actual content, and she is putting a clear effort into scum hunting.

6. Gammagooey: singer, kat focus is good; actually gave me a chance to respond.

5. Duplicity (Regfan + Shift hydra): Re-read slot and ended up with more good things to say than bad. They’ve been vocal, have decent reads; good town voice.

1. Alchemist (as an alt of Timeater): leaning town. I disagree with his Glork assessment, but that doesn’t mean scum would write it. I actually disagree with his OS, ludi reads too, but the fact that he put effort into finding out if OS was lying about the virus means he’s probably town.

7. Glork: Also gave me a chance to respond; has been pushing a lot. I of course did not like his reaction to the OS gambit and thought it was hasty, but now scummy per-say. See Tierce.

8. Haze: definitely town. Questions of me were valid, not sheeping; good gut, too.

19. Oversoul: I thought he was town before the gambit, and, regardless of whether said gambit was a good one, it came off as a very protown action.

Zdeneck

short version (for the long-post challenged

Scum (scummiest-->w): DDD, implosion, quilford, schmugen, GreyIce, LLD, (Tierce--special)
Middletown (nulliest-->leaning town) singer, MoI, UN, (Nexus, Oman, Nikanor, TSH--same grp), dramonic, Wyrd, Ludi,
Town(townies-->Sheepable) Hindu, SpyreX, Tammy, Duplicity, Alchemist, Glork, Haze, Oversoul, Zdeneck

I was going to respond to more people in detail, but just reading a page makes me want to throw things and I already wrote this.

hi alchemist.

Vote for toasty.

Like this shitty gem right here. Short, yet I don't want to put effort into something with now effort.

what you have explained you've explained poorly. You justify reads because its the town thing to do. Yes, but I wrote your section before your vote on me (a fish could've figured that out) and your vote on me just makes you scummier. And the fact that you changed your vote from dram to me does not change my beliefs about you slot, and doesn't in any way change what the dram vote shows. I ISO'd your slot and found sub-par after sub-par statement, and, honestly, thought your posts were more tedious and awful than anything MoI or Tammy have posted. I will at the least skim any long post I see.

I haven't justified most of my reads. I can justify them if you really want me to, but I don't generally spend time justifying townreads unless they're under pressure. I've justified my votes for the sake of justifying my votes, so that others know why I'm voting. So really, your statement that i'm justifying votes because it's the town thing to do isn't inaccurate. That's why votes are supposed to be justified. So that others know why you're voting, and so that others can interpret those justifications and decide if they're valid.

It's your fault if you're going to make it sound like you think my vote is still on dramonic. Don't get pissed off over me interpreting your post that way. It's a game :\.

And If you're going to call me scummy for asking people to join the wagon that i'm on... yeah. you can die.

Don't see maguavotes.

One scumteam makes a lot more sense than two. If there's an SK, they probably have a nonstandard win condition too.

You talked about getting short and to the point in one of your posts, could you do that in explaining what about MoI-scum I, and a few others, are misinterpreting

dddp could be scum too.

And given that you think DDD could be scum, do you think it is likely that hypo toasty-scum decided to go out of his way to bus DDD-scum out of the blue

You talked about getting short and to the point in one of your posts, could you do that in explaining what about MoI-scum I, and a few others, are misinterpreting

There really isn't anything specific... I just don't see them as scummy. They're playing about how I'd expect a MoI-Magua hydra to play. I think when I said I didn't see the votes on them, it was in response to their response to Oversoul at the beginning of 1058.

And given that you think DDD could be scum, do you think it is likely that hypo toasty-scum decided to go out of his way to bus DDD-scum out of the blue

Maybe. Probably not. Frankly, this is just a bad question :S. I don't focus on connections on day one. And even if I did, having two scumreads that I don't think are scum together (i mean, it's obvious that the expected answer to your question is 'no') in no way prevents me from voting one of them. And I see toasty as scummier than dddp.

meh, I didn't expect any answer one way or the other, (sorry If you didn't like the question, but I wanted an answer) I just wanted to get where your thinking is at. I don't think it is unreasonable on day one to have a few scum reads, but then if all of them gang vote the same guy maybe you reevaluate your read on that particular player. Things change, etc.

The toasty wagon is filled largely with nullreads, with some townreads and one scumread. My scumreads aren't ganging up and voting anyone.

I wasn't implying that was the case, I was using a hypothetical to illustrate a point. (which in my mind is the low likelyhood of toasty scum voting dddp scum) Which was that sometimes you don't need a flip to change to base interactions off of.

I think the long and short of what I was trying to do here was say that if you think DDDP is scum, maybe toasty voting him is a town-tell and you could come away slowly from your toasty scum read and vote someone else! I really don't think toasty is scum here, and don't want to see him lynched.

Maybe. Probably not. Frankly, this is just a bad question :S. I don't focus on connections on day one. And even if I did, having two scumreads that I don't think are scum together (i mean, it's obvious that the expected answer to your question is 'no') in no way prevents me from voting one of them. And I see toasty as scummier than dddp.

I know you said connection-reads D1 are bad, but do you think they are inherently scummY?

The toasty wagon is filled largely with nullreads, with some townreads and one scumread. My scumreads aren't ganging up and voting anyone.

I find it hard to believe that in my being L-6 you only have one scumread on my wagon.

ToastyToast (L-6) ~ Haze, UberNinja, SpyreX, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Quilford, Gammagooey, Wyrd, implosion, Teleporting Speed Hippos

five people on my wagon are lurkers, 2 of them are following Gammagooey, 1 is you, and then there's spyreX and Haze.
So, basically, I'm getting voted primarily by the people putting the least effort into the game, and only 3 who I think have actually done something.

To be honest, I don't have a large bunch of scum reads on your wagon either. I'd say TSH, and then maaaaaaybe DDD and Haze (and uberninja is just derpy).

I know you said connection-reads D1 are bad, but do you think they are inherently scummY?

No. I just think they're a stupid thing to do.

ToastyToast (L-6) ~

Haze

,

UberNinja

,

SpyreX

,

Debonair Danny DiPietro

,

Quilford

,

Gammagooey, Wyrd, implosion

,

Teleporting Speed Hippos

Colorized for you. DDDP is my only scumread on the wagon. I've mentioned all of the townreads except for gamma. Haven't gotten real opinions on anyone else here.

I think the long and short of what I was trying to do here was say that if you think DDDP is scum, maybe toasty voting him is a town-tell and you could come away slowly from your toasty scum read and vote someone else! I really don't think toasty is scum here, and don't want to see him lynched.

Like i said, i think toasty is scum more strongly than dddp, so etc.

Those are called votes, alchemist. And they pretty clearly haven't reached a consensus.

But to humor you.

Code: Select all

dramonic, Toasty

I know that this isn't your only reason for voting him but that doesn't change that I find your change along with your comments still coming across as incredibly contrived. Also your meta is pointless in this case because the biggest issue we're having with your play isn't so much about the quantity of your posts but rather the content and reads don't seem genuine and you haven't shown any real intention to consider your reads on a deeper level. For instance your suspicion of Alchemist earlier was terrible, we then said we don't think you could read him like that as town and see it as you setting up for a wagon-jump on him if it arisen as mafia, you then said Alchemist-town but no explanation between any of the thought processes.

didn't even see that post about my suspicion on alchemist.
If you think that i'm coming accross as contrived, really nothing i can say about that.
And as I've said, i think multiple times now:

I haven't justified most of my reads. I can justify them if you really want me to, but I don't generally spend time justifying townreads unless they're under pressure.

If you want me to justify a townread, ask.

Nexus is null. I wonder why. He's an okay lynch. Toasty is a better lynch.

I don't like a ML lynch.

Weak play, has done essentially nothing all game. Also a couple of small meta-related things that I'm just noticing now after going over implosion's iso. I can elaborate if such is desired by someone who isn't Alchemist.

I'd like elaboration on the meta-aspects.

Also, do you really think that you've done significantly more than me in this game?

nik is probably town, though.

I, for one, believe nikanor.

Spoiler: Nexus

unvote

Obviously noone else fancies an Alchemist lynch.

Katsuki, stop trying to fake lack of care by giving stupid "hilarious" answers to GI's question.

Of all the people to call out, he chooses Shmugen?

Explain.

TSH that isn't even a goddamn explanation

MoI wagon is bad.

Alchemist wagon would be better. His hop onto the MoI wagon was fucking terrible. Not as bad as Ludi's, though.

Also delayed answer to Katsuki's question.

I think you're faking care to look like you're actually trying to be busy and focus on the game. I'd say it's a bit scummy but not enough to actually be scum.

Dana: I'm still convinced Alchemist is scum, but I need to re-read him. TSH would also be a good lynch candidate.

ASOS Mafia Now I'm going to bed.

Scum (out of): Alchemist, Oman, TSH and Avenging Angel. I don't buy into VCA for the last one.

NOW I'M GOING TO BED.

Singer, you're still voting yourself. What fucking use is that, besides being a massive fucking distraction? I didn't say I didn't CARE about country claims, I MISSED Tierce's country claim. Now that I understand where she's coming from, of course I'm going to fucking protect her.

GI: I already said, it seems to indicate that my protection is some kind of Bodyguardesque role. The Ragnell ability indicates it's something to do with the numbers, and it seems to suggest that once it reaches a certain number, it becomes imbued with the powers of the Goddess, and helps buff my protection. I can then protect someone from a day kill as well as a night kill.

Spoiler: Shmugen - some of these I included because of interaction with GreyIce

Not a single one of you welcomed me. Hurtful.

I'm caught up reading wise, but comprehension of that reading is lagging a touch behind. Basic summary of thoughts:

1. Alchemist - Other than posting style and lackluster attack on Glork, the biggest thing that stands out here is relative to Tierce. Alchemist, why did you think Tierce was a good shot when people thought Oversoul's vig was real?

2. TSH - Not much here. I note a lack of dropped hippo wisdom yesterday and a declared willingness to debate. The exchange of words with Ludi didn't make Ludi look great.

3. DDDP - I feel a bit of your pain with large themes, but I hope you show up sooner rather than later. Slight townread on DDDP for giving no shits about scum win condition.

4. Dramonic - Flavor does not a townie make, nor does voting Oversoul. There's a healthy difference between scum and anti-town. One you lynch, one you vig. Your 'come and get some' attitude doesn't match your content output.

5. Duplicity - Good stuff, relatively easy to follow logic. Post 402 is almost spot on, though we don't agree on Quilford and a few small points.

6. Gamma - I am frightened by your idea that content is just starting around post 895. Other than the slightly changing reason on why Gamma thinks the Toast wagon is bad, this slot pleases me. A, would read again.

7. Glork - Please don't quit the site. I think little else needs saying about this slot. Anyone thinking Glork scum would require a Glork/Tierce wombocombo scum gambit to make their reasoning work, and then we could declare mafiascum over and move to browner pastures.

8. Haze - Middle of the pack null. This started smelling like Haze revving up the bus for Toasty, but the reasoning became more inquisitive and diggy.

9. Hinduragi - His posts, they are so TINY. Good grilling of Oversoul, don't like the making excuses for Uberninja early on. In post 617, promises ability to do solid gold posting. Get hyped and do it!

10. Implosion - This ISO promised much, then had post 890 which gave me a bit of hope, and then nothing. See above Hindu advice.

11. Katsuki - I was excited for like a day when I saw you were on the verge of replacing out only to come back at the last minute and crush my dreams. Conviction is noted, but a case would be nice to give your baseless postulations a base. You've said just less than Implosion in more posts.

12. LLD - Not much of a presence since the waning of the Age of TammyNinja and the waxing of the Age of Oversoul. Post deals are crap and should be treated as such. I like the push on UberNinja early though. What's the theory behind withholding reads?

13. Ludi - No content since the end of Age 1. I'm sorely tempted to sheep Duplicity here, but I don't see a lot. Most of the crap in the ISO is Alchemist related.

14. MoI - Townread. Very unafraid to take the ugly, questionable stances/arguments and drag them to the forefront.

15. MathGirl - That's me!

16. Nexus - Ugh. This post and reading took me hours. At least approximate an effort, you lazy git. This is a Vi game, you know not the treat you are in for.

17. Nikanor - Other than the case on Alchemist and a touch of Oversoul defense, all posts/cases revolve around meta. Tierce finds the cat's meta cases somewhat acceptable, and I generally defer to Tierce regarding meta. Nulltown?

I'm getting tired. These will get shorter/shallower.

18. Oman - Kinda gross. Promises to take a bath to remove grossness and post this weekend.

19. Oversoul - Really gross. Misguided town is putting it lightly, between defending Toasty before Toasty even showed up and thinking he'd be real cool for faking a daykill.

20. Quilford - Not a fan of the list on page 2 at all, though it did spark discussion. I require more than a list of vague feelings. You will supply them to me.

21. GreyICE - This slot is like the Katsuki slot but with more ideas and attempts to make content. Reasoning for this being a popular wagon is out there, I'm sure, but I may have to piece it together tomorrow. How sure were you the dayvig was fake?

22. Singersinger - This is bad. The Tammy vote is bad, the 'ugh this game is hard sheep Glork' is bad, the 'I'm just not into it' is miserable.
VOTE: Singersinger

I have petered out. My apologies, hopefully I will find the time tomorrow to do a little better on these last 5 and finish the last 7. SUPER CLIFFNOTES: Spy and Tammy are complicated, Tierce town, Zdenek possibly town but also complicated, UberNinja/Toast possibly scum but require reading, I hear Fate/Nuwen hydra exists but I could be wrong seeing as there are 4 posts and only 1 has any worth.

10 minute work break quick reaction:

Shmugen, all Dayvigs are fake. Always. Seriously, always.

Anyway, what do you think of the theory that newer posters replacing into a scum slot are try-hard in their attempts to look town, and tend to make long wall posts, but end up having a low content to word ratio (aka a lot of null reads).

Do you think your summaries of TSH, Haze, Katsuki, Ludi, Nexus, Nikanor, or Oman added anything to this game?

If not, why did you post them?

And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.

Meet Shmu.

Did exactly the same as town in MLP.


Not really caught up, super skimming, will be back in Lisbon today.

I think the theory is crap, Grey. I play this game to have fun, lurking is not fun. I have fun by interacting with people, and there's no better way to inject myself into the mix than to talk about everyone.

My reads on that list didn't add a lot to the game, no. They are to spike conversation and are otherwise for my benefit. I attempt to keep a game's events fresh in my mind as they happen, this is difficult when replacing in or when I fall behind. A list helps me get my head on straight and serves as a reference point, a backup if you will, should I fall behind in the future.

Response to Alchemist coming in the afternoon.

And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.

Also, Shmug - When you get a sec, can you point out to me the ugly/questionable stances that MoI have been unafraid to point out and bring to the forefront?

post 595
post 656
post 839
are the three main instances of taking unpopular stances, 'Hey Glork, let's have the alive after N1 discussion, Hey Tierce you're wrong on dayvig use, Hey everyone, Oversoul makes a bit of sense'. The hydra speaks its minds.

1. Alchemist - Other than posting style and lackluster attack on Glork, the biggest thing that stands out here is relative to Tierce. Alchemist, why did you think Tierce was a good shot when people thought Oversoul's vig was real?

Tierce wasn't confirmed town, nor did her posting indicate anything near as such

Sheep detected

So bad shot = confirmed town and anything else flies? Tell me why you felt Tierce was scummy.

Shmugen, all Dayvigs are fake. Always. Seriously, always.

Anyway, what do you think of the theory that newer posters replacing into a scum slot are try-hard in their attempts to look town, and tend to make long wall posts, but end up having a low content to word ratio (aka a lot of null reads).

Do you think your summaries of TSH, Haze, Katsuki, Ludi, Nexus, Nikanor, or Oman added anything to this game?

If not, why did you post them?

Additional point on this, Grey: Of those summaries, how much do you feel TSH, Nexus, or Oman have added to the game? I can't write on what isn't there. For the record, PeregrineV IS in this game as part of TSH.

Now to finish the Great Wall of Shmu.

23. SpyreX - His answers to the pressure put on him by various sources (UN, MaguaoI) have been satisfactory, but only just. I want to call it clear town, but it's not there enough. Remember when I was talking about LLD and I said I hate vote trade deals? I dislike proxy votes too. Giving up your vote is like putting down your pistol in an Old West duel. Spy is correct that this game needs blood. It's pretty bloated already, I can't imagine how bad it would be if the lurkfolk actually tried.

24. Tammy - The personality irks me when someone flips the raeg switch, but the concepts presented seem solid. The town parts of the ISO that stand out are recent, the analysis of the LLD vote deal with Spy and the acceptance that meta is a thing around here and the effort to go to her old home, dig up all kinds of games and do analysis on them. The earlier parts of the ISO kind of blur together, but I think I understand where the idea of voting Tammy early came from.

25. Tierce - Like you needed an excuse to go drinking, that's most likely the biggest lie you've told this game. (Note. If you are actually an alcoholic, I beg your pardon.) That said, the reaction to the fake dayvig seems natural enough to me, had the rage stopped early I might have thought scum. Town up and down, but I'll agree with Tammy here, meta is useful but the whole 'What would Katsuki do' argument makes me slightly ill. It isn't everything. I want to hear more on why you think MaguaoI is scum.

26. ToastyToast - Much has been said to merit the below vote already. Not only does Toast come in and suspect the 3 wagons at the time with no other reads, he continually goes back and asks how he could possibly have reads on others by page 8. A few of these other reads come through around page 40 turning his initial 3 reads into 9 reads out of 28, 5 of these being null and no mention of previous suspect Tammy. Of these reads, only one is scum and that's DDDP of all people. Really? You're reading this game, the same words I'm reading, and you come back with DDDP.

Unvote

, VOTE: ToastyToast

27. UberNinja - *sigh* Crappy attitude, small townlean. I don't think Toasty's initial post was bad enough for scumninja to rev up the bus so soon, mostly. Disinterest level is dildos, cases instead of reflexive outbursts would be nice. Do you still think Tierce is scum after the whole Oversoul thing?

28. Wyrd - It took this hydra 1000 posts to get the ball rolling, but there begins to be content, hallelujah. Fate, do try to do more than just mock Tierce. The Ludi point by Nuwen early makes some sense to me, as does the Ludi defense of Toasty point. Similar amounts of town as UberNinja but with much more promise.

29. Zdenek - I'm sorry to hear about the family emergency. Your early content was inquisitive and decent, hopefully when you return it will continue. I'm going to go with the nullside of town for stubbornness. Going after Glork's Katsuki thing in the midst of the Oversoul fakevig and Glork's pondering of replacement doesn't feel like scum looking for blood in the water.


Whew! Those last six had a lot to them.
In rough summation:
Scum (S-W) Toasty, Ludi? Singer? *Insert Lurkers here*
Null (Scum to Town): *Insert more Lurkers*, DDDP, Alchemist, Nikanor, Haze, LLD, Dramonic, Zdenek, Grey, Wyrd
Town (S-W): Tierce, Glork, Duplicity, Tammy, Gamma, Spy

They struck me as MaguaoI putting himself in the thick of things and pushing points that others might shy away from. I would expect scum to shy away from anything that draws that much unnecessary attention to themselves, especially as point 1 vs Glork was very antagonistic towards a power player who I felt was townish at the time of the post. Reminiscent of a dog barking like crazy at another dog. What's it going to do but get people to throw shoes and tell them to shut up? Yet it happened anyway.

Does either head of the hydra seem to you to be people who act shy when scum so much so that speaking their opinion on something that is a stance taken in the past an indicator of alignment?

Also, I noticed in your reads that you said Duplicity made a lot of sense in his reads post. What is your read on them? You don't say.

Magna, no. Magua I couldn't speak for, I am not a meta scholar. Your point is taken. Giving MaguaoI a quick rereread, I also appreciate the wanting to vig Dramonic due to content lack. I am for the potential vig pool subsisting of those below the mod in activity level, say from Nikanor down? Excepting Wyrd and myself, of course.

As for Duplicity, yes I do have a townread.

I forgot to throw Magna into my summary thing.

In rough summation:
Scum (S-W) Toasty, Ludi? Singer? *Insert Lurkers here*
Null (Scum to Town): *Insert more Lurkers*, DDDP, Alchemist, Nikanor, Haze, LLD, Dramonic, Zdenek, Grey, Wyrd, Spy
Town (S-W): Tierce, Glork, Duplicity, Tammy, Gamma, MaguaoI

@Toasty - I have two mostly solid scumreads and one decent scumread, yes. The difference between mine and your early ones that I'm voting you for is that mine looked at everyone after a large amount of game went by and yours looked at the 3 largest wagons early and looked at no one else. Your biggest complaints about DDDP seem to be his giving his vote to Spy and not voting Dram when he says he would vig Dram if given a chance. While not expressly stated, he gave his vote to Spy before your entrance, and if he likes where his vote is, his 'I would vig Dram' is fine. Incidentally, his vote is on you. Could this have anything to do with your scumread on him? Your four largest scumreads are all on your wagon.

And no, I try not to forget early play. One of my favorite things about forum mafia is the inability to delete old posts. Someone has to remember what came before and not let scum slip by.

Code: Select all

ToastyToast
Ludi
Lurkers

A reminder to you, Glork, to do a case on MoI.

Unvote

I'll take a look at Implosion as soon as possible, probably at lunch.

I think a country claim would be beneficial. There are pros and cons to any plan, but the pros probably outweigh the cons on this one. If MoI has powers related to country, it's likely others do as well. Con wise, if the scum are going after country leaders as theorized, if a leader dies, the scum could ignore everyone else who claimed that country.

I'm expecting blue number shenanigans at 28 or 32.

Angel makes a strong point regarding SpyreX's whole nation thing, the WIFOM would be far more trouble than its worth. Welcome and thank you for taking over a less than productive slot.

I would think that MoI would be a little less caustic today. One scum down on day 2 is being in decent shape, people, keep your heads in the game.

VOTE: MagisterLudi.

Among the prodded, I want to hear from Dram, Nik, and Oman the most. Apologies for needing a prod. Tierce, I don't comprehend what you're saying with the Ludi unvote.

I can go for a lurker lynch if Ludi isn't going to get the axe. Oman, Nexus, Katsuki, take your pick.

In the same vein as the childish arguments where telling someone to be quiet constitutes being loud, Alchemist, cut it out with the fluff posts. The Blue Number (Blumber?) will come calling.

Consider Katsuki struck from my list of want to lynch today for now.

Spoiler: GreyIce - I left out the KATSUKI I CAN READ YOU stuff

Grey: Read 430, 436, 437, 448, and then vote Toasty.

Okay, yeah, his top 3 suspicions are the top 3 people being wagoned, and he's doing these useless walls of content that don't contain anything.

I'd hang him for #555 where he literally posts an entire wall with no content though.

Vote: ToastyToast

@GI

Who's scum bro?

Who am I voting, bro?

Hi guys, this is called blind wagoning. It's..it won a few mafia games a few years back, but not by this dude.

GreyICE, you are just...just woeful.

Unvote, Vote: GreyICE

. For being scum by defending this "vote".

Really?

'cause I'm not blind wagoning, and I'm following Glork.

Which is generally not the dumbest thing ever to do, especially if you don't have strong reads.

So you have a strong town read on Toasty, yes?

It wasn't useless. I responded to every persons questions and more. So, I basically did exactly what was asked of me. "Oh, HOW USELESS!" Fuck you.

But what sort of responses were these?

Hm. I'd say singer's Tammy vote drama is just as bad as UN's. If she keeps up with the excuses and the Scotland thing, red lights. start caring or I'm going to assume there's another reason you don't care.

i don't really get where all the Ludi hate is coming from.

Again, I'm going to vote for people I find suspicious over people I don't have an opinion on, especially when its my first post of the game. In addition, all three of them were at like L-9, which is hardly a wagon. People who have votes on them are going to attract more attention than people without them for anyone who's trying to catch up 8 pages and get their first vote in.

How does an unprompted soft-claim make someone obvtown? How does her reaction make her obvtown?

BlahBlahBlah meta blah blah omg paranoia mafia blah

Agree with UN that most of the Alchemist votes are lazy

Content

THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN ANY

UN, Glork already unvoted and I believe his frustration to be sincere. It seems to be going a bit far as scum if he's faking it, and this isn't even mentioning the claims. Glork is pretty obvtown. Melodramatic or not, he's obviously not having fun right now and you can't berate him for wanting to think it over.

And good, now that Oversoul isn't getting wagoned put some votes on the people that need them-Ludi/Implosion are the ones that immediately come to mind.

-Shift

I dunno, I don't have a strong scum read on Ludi. His last infinity posts have been in this thread, and I get the feeling he's overwhelmed and sticking to his 2 targets (Alchemist and Tammy) and trying to get good reads on them.

Implosion is a good lurker wagon, but hey, you know who else hasn't posted much? Katsuki! And Katsuki is scum!

Join justice

Implosion is a good lurker wagon, but hey, you know who else hasn't posted much? Katsuki! And Katsuki is scum!
Join justice

I would include you right up in the "I haven't posted much" group. And you complain that I'm not providing content. sheesh.

You've provided lots of words. You're light on content.

Words are not content, content is not words, and your posts have been a lot of vague justifications, cheerleading, and general 'running commentary,' with no real concrete reasoning or thought process.



Oversoul, listen to Uber.

Is Tammy pushing a Tierce lynch?

DA FUQ?

Please someone actual dayvig Zdenek.

Katsuki still needs death.

Shmugen, all Dayvigs are fake. Always. Seriously, always.

Anyway, what do you think of the theory that newer posters replacing into a scum slot are try-hard in their attempts to look town, and tend to make long wall posts, but end up having a low content to word ratio (aka a lot of null reads).

Do you think your summaries of TSH, Haze, Katsuki, Ludi, Nexus, Nikanor, or Oman added anything to this game?

If not, why did you post them?

Hey Tammy.

Crazy ass Vi game

24 motherfuckers to mow through

Unlikely to be one scum team

Discuss.

21. GreyICE: Never know what flavor of GreyIce I’m going to get in a game. He seems to be like VOTE KATSUKI every fucking post. Guess what? Saying that is ineffective, and

I believe I already attacked others as to why it's a scummy thing to do.

I’d say he comes up on the lower end with his banter with katsuki.
...

11. Katsuki: Nothing I can say about this slot that hasn’t been said already. I have more problems with the other lurkers, but that doesn’t make his play right.

short version (for the long-post challenged

Scum (scummiest-->w): DDD, implosion, quilford, schmugen, GreyIce, LLD, (Tierce--special)
Middletown (nulliest-->leaning town) singer, MoI, UN, (Nexus, Oman, Nikanor, TSH--same grp), dramonic, Wyrd, Ludi,
Town(townies-->Sheepable) Hindu, SpyreX, Tammy, Duplicity, Alchemist, Glork, Haze, Oversoul, Zdeneck

Yeah, lemme explain something to you.

I replaced in because I got a PM saying 'Mafia Behind the Maiden could use a replacement and LLD is playing in it, come join!'

I offered to replace in Saturday, with the caveat that I was driving back from vacation all of Sunday, and had a job interview monday morning, so wouldn't be posting until monday afternoon.

I got the job and they needed me to start immediately. So yeah, I expected to have about 1 billion times more time than I've had. I'm moderating one game and in two games, and my time on this site the priority goes to the game I'm moderating. I read this game when I can - and the endless walls don't help (I'm even farther behind on the other game, if it's any consolation). So fuck you if you think I'm lurking. I worked friggin six hours on my Saturday, and what do I do when I get home? Read this game.


Now, Toasty, you're going to reconcile the above for me. In order:

1) Attacking Katsuki is scummy
2) Katsuki's play is terrible awful
3) You failed to stick Katsuki anywhere in the town scum list.

So where does Kats go? If attacking him is awful, I'd expect strong town, so why is he there? If he's somewhere else, why is attacking him awful?

Toasty's a bad lynch, guys. He's stepping up his game to a more-than-acceptable level.

A few pages ago, Glork wrote:

Grey: Read 430, 436, 437, 448, and then vote Toasty.

A little while ago, Glork wrote:

Toasty... I don't know. I hate his suspicions and "null" on like everything else, but once I kicked his ass a little, he actually started to do something.

Soooo... basically you were trying to get me to vote a pressure vote because having the top 3 wagons as scum reads is shitty?

Because dude, he still has Tierce as a scum read, and you're not telling me that someone reading this game should have Tierce as a scum read.

Ludi is town

Fate is probs town, though I'd feel better if that dick Nuwen was posting

Scum be lurkin, yo.

This is probably true.


I posit that in any game above, like... 22-24 players, any vigilante is required to vig people who are in the bottom-quarter of posters. Hippos, Haze, Oman, implosion... all of them can eat a bullet.

The cutoff is at DDD for a reason, I assume.

I disliked the fakevig reaction because 1)I thought it was unecessarily overaggressive 2) seemed like a poor sport, which I associate with upset scum over upset town 3)the whole obvtown thing spiked up here. In other games I have been in, a fakevig may piss town off, but not to the point of bullying or loss of all logic.

This reasoning is total horseshit, but at least there's some reason Tierce is still scummy.

...

Apparently town doesn't get pissed and rage.

...

I agree with nikky on Ludi.

One good turn deserves another.

vote: implosion

Beats the shit out of a ludi wagon. Apparently I can scream until I'm blue in the face about Katsuki, and nothing happens. Fate, you kill his sorry ass for me if I die night one, okay?

Vote: Quilford

Sure why not. He's actually a good wagon, unlike Ludi or MoI.

Anybody wanna lynch Nexus?

What, captain 6 poster?

I'd rather do Oman, but I could do for a lurker lynch.

Oh for gods sake

Don't you assholes dare say that you don't see it

His scum reads were the largest wagon at the time
And the one person in the game attacking him

THE LARGEST WAGON AND THE ONLY PERSON ATTACKING HIM

COULD THESE SCUM READS GET ANY LAZIER?

FUCK YOU ALL

VOTE: NEXUS

HE'S PROBABLY TOWN

BECAUSE YOU'RE IDIOTS

BUT I DON'T GIVE A FUCK

THERE ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?

OH YEAH
LIKE I GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOU THINK TIM
I DON'T SERIOUSLY GIVE A FUCKING SHIT
SO SUCK MY COCK


SERIOUSLY YOU REALIZE NO ONE IN THE ENTIRE GAME HAS GIVEN ME ANYTHING RESEMBLING AN ADEQUATE EXPLANATION OF WHY KATSUKI ISN'T BEING LYNCHED

BUT WE'RE GOING TO WAGON LUDI OR NEXUS BECAUSE THAT'S THE COOL THING TO DO

FUCK YOU

LUDI AT LEAST IS DEFINITELY TOWN

AND IF YOU FUCKING TRY AND RIDE MY NUTS LIKE ANYTHING YOU SAY MATTERS

I'M GONNA FUCKING GET SERIOUS ON YOUR FACE

Lol, lessee.

He hasn't posted in 100 days

So we have no idea of his alignment

It's like 2 scum dead to like 3 town.


Yeah, we need people like that to not be wasting oxygen.

vote: nexus

If you are a mislynch bro, you done nothing to show us this.

YAY SINGER IS SCUM

OR SO FUCKING WORTHLESS SHE NEEDS TO DIE

QUICK SINGER ANALYZE MY REACTION

VIG ANALYZE HER REACTION TO A BULLET TONIGHT

Please don't hammer until I've gotten people to answer my request for nation members.

Nexus, you're at L-2 by my count. Full claim, please.

If it hasn't happened by now why do you think it will happen any time soon?

I'm fairly certain there are people who haven't seen the request yet.

I seriously doubt that is the reason; furthermore if you believe that to be the case why haven't you dragged forward your request on each page you instead of reposting it the once as far as I can remember.

Not sure where I stand on Nexus' claim; would like to see the evidence others have asked for and more input from Nexus before deciding one way or another.

If there's a gust, does your avatar face in a different direction?

@GreyICE:

Hi. I'd like a scumread who's not in the set (Katsuki, Oman, Nexus), please and thank you.
Oh, while I'm here, I'd like to know if you think Lady Lambdadelta is town or scum.

SingerSigner needs to die, for her self-vote, shitty content, and general 'I dare you to lynch me.' It'd be fucking amazing if Nexus flipped scum here, because it'd explain her giving up/AtE post (Signer giving up makes NO SENSE from what I know of her. Whining, sucking, and generally flailing about, sure. Giving up? Nah).

Other than that, it's time to start culling the herd. Dramonic, Hinduragi (he rubs me the wrong way), Glork, UBERNINJA, Dana/Zdenek, and the obvious.

LLD is... I dunno. She's whining up a storm, but she'd happily scumplain about something for as long as she could. She's calling me a good vig shot though, so I'd return the favor ^_^

---

@GreyICE:

It's not so much that I have any particular worry of dying in this game, it's the fact that we're not going to lynch Ike at this stage. Oman/Avenging Angel replacements may CC Ike, sure, but in the meantime

you don't lynch Ike

. You seem to be pushing for Nexus's lynch or at least trying to convince Glork to hop back on, without voting for Nexus yourself. What's with this? Why are you playing devil's advocate?
(Though I guess that UberNinja is the one and only of my townreads I would slaughter with no regrets, so carry on god's work there.)

You hit the nail on the head.

Assuming the very limited doctor doesn't die, what day is his lynch back on the table? Because mechanics or not, no way does Vi let every major character be town.

I am very open to lynching nexus today, in case you're wondering. Two days ago I wanted to wait and see. I waited. Am I seeing?

Okay, fair.

The vig should vig from this group if Nexus flips scum:

Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gammagooey, SpyreX, Nikanor, danakillsu, UberNinja, kanyeknowsbest

Scratch Nikanor actually, he's probs town.

If Nexus flips town I'd love to see Oman dead

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro.

This is our lynch for today. Speedwagon please and thanks.

Hells yes.

Vote: DDD

For a motherfucking lousy soft claim of a potentially confirmable ability in a game where scum doesn't have to live through LyLo (since we could lose well before "LyLo")?

Why the fuck would anyone do that, DDD?

Assuming you're not an idiot, you're deliberately claim stalling at a time when you KNOW scum would claim stall.

Why?

See, I keep hearing that scum would want to stall the game and not being scum I have no fucking idea why that is. I mean there's the ultimate war mechanic which tells me absolutely nothing and then there's been a random daykill except it might be from the possible SK who just died and/or which might be related to time somehow but I don't know either way being that I don't have control of the kill.

And maybe you noticed but I didn't want to claim at all, so now I'm going to try to claim as little as possible because I don't want to claim at all, and when that doesn't work because you and yours wear your pants on your heads and aren't actually trying to read me, I'll eventually make the claim that will cause my wagon to disintigrate and I'll be even more disgusted that it came to that. Ta da. So how about we skip the last phase of that and you unvote.

How about we lynch you and you flip scum and we party?

I'll ignore the first, second, and fifth lines since they don't actually say anything useful and instead note that I never threatened you; the owning your vote comment was a positive in comparison to letting someone else own your vote and I said you were in the middle of all my non-town reads. If calling you the sixth or seventh person I'd lynch is a threat, it's a rather indirect and weak one.

No threatening me with this bullshit idea that you'll flip town and "I will be sorry for voting an awesome town power role." Like how nexus tried to threaten me with the "I'm a doctor and Ike" bullshit yesterday.

Vote: DDD

I am 100% convinced that UberNinja and LLD did not concoct some amazing plan to match claims in their Quicktopic. Meaning at best 1 of these 2 is scum.

Were I going to vote...

um...

*sigh*

I like LLD more, so I'd probably vote Uber, but based on gameplay coin flip.

She was on Nexus exactly long enough for it to be a bus. Yes, honey, you bus like a madman, I am aware of this.

Uber, otoh has done jack.

But my initial vote?

Oh I like that one.

On that note, it's not Tierce. You've got to be 100% fucking retarded to lurk-read along with a day phase, use your ability on someone, then come in and start discussing it.

Yes, obvious town remains obvious town -_-

It's you, isn't it?

[Tammy]

More IoA I want to look at and make sense of. Yes, Duplicity was scum, but self-aligned, so his reads were true and he was killed by the scum team. CES said in White Flag that town-misguided Regfan can be a boost to a scum team, and that's absolutely true, so for him to die night 2, eh...something here might be worth looking into at any rate. (Again, just pooling some stuff of interest that I want to look at and analyze later...this might come of nothing.)

Spoiler: Duplicity

The implosion-scum flip solidified a lot of my town reads. Also as Shift said I'm fairly confident in a lot of scum being on the Quilford wagon to save what seemed to be the inevitable lynch on Implosion and while I normally dislike VCA I think it'll be highly telling in this specific case (Also no MoI, this doesn't mean that I want you spamming up all my future games asking me to comment on your VCA analysis). I've coloured in green my strong town reads and flipped confirmed town and scum. If you want a strong town read explained just ask though most of the reasons behind them I went through yesterday.

Spoiler: VC at day end with reads attached

Quilford

(LYNCH) ~

Alchemist, Glork

, Debonair Danny DiPietro,

Gammagooey

,

implosion

,

Wyrd

,

danakillsu

, singersigner, SpyreX,

Tierce

, Teleporting Speed Hippos,

Tammy

, GreyICE, Magister Ludi, Hinduragi

implosion (L-10)

~

Duplicity, ToastyToast,

Nikanor,

MaguaofIllusion

, Lady Lambdadelta

MaguaofIllusion

(L-12) ~ Katsuki, Oman, UberNinja

ToastyToast

(L-13) ~ Haze,

Quilford

Not Voting: Nexus, dramonic, Shmugen

So that leaves the scum on the wagon to include some of DDD, Singer, SpyreX, TSH, GI, Ludi, Hind. Of those I have weaker town reads on DDD, Singer, TSH and Hind though I'll need to assign time to re-read through them to make sure I'm not missing anything there. It means that there's very likely scum inside of Ludi, SpyreX and GreyICE though and that's probably the best place to lynch today. Of the wagon includes Nikanor, LLD, Kats, Oman, UN, Nexus, Dram and Shmugen. Of those I have weaker town reads on Nikanor, UN and Dram which means scum is probably inside of LLD (I remembered the timing of her implosion vote coming across as bad), Kats, Oman, Nexus and Shmugen. I'd probably prefer a lynch of LLD/Nexus in the off wagon players before anyone else there.

Vote: Ludi

(PS: See Magua, I'm not always wrong!)

Ludi, can you explain for me two things 1) Why you believed Implosion was a bad lynch in Post 1440 and 2) Why you stated that you'd ISO him in Post 1518 and never followed through on it. Also while you're at it post a summary of your reads for me.

LLD, again I don't see how you could have been confused about what my post was about unless you skimmed it especially since the vote count I was talking about was in the spoiler and looking at the other names mentioned as 'off' and 'on' wagon would have given away exactly what I was talking about. Regarding Hind though I remember Shift having a scum-read on him near game start and about that time in the game I didn't disagree with him however a lot of little things make me think he's town, for instance Post 834 is not something I see coming from scum and I like his strong town read on Alchemist.

The similaries are: Tammy, Singer, Tierce, Gamma, SpyreX, DDD, Wyrd, Alchemist, Ludi.

Tammy, Tierce, Alchemist, Gamma are obvtown, Wyrd is confirmed town. So put them to the side and you're left with Singer, SpyreX, DDD, Ludi.

I think the only motivation was wanting to joke around, don't think there's anything deeper to it. If you're honestly leaning towards him being scum though I suggest you look specifically at Implosion/Niks interaction in Post 1525, Post 1526, Post 1527 and Post 1528 because that doesn't read like partners to me at all.

Lets see; scum: TSH, Oman, Dana, and Alchemist (though no one agrees with me on alchemist. Maybe at this point he's just annoyed me too much)
top town reads; SpyreX, Tierce, Glork, Toasty

I'm not sure what exactly you want and if you want more, but thats where i'm at.

Was hoping to see a little more reads but I'll settle for an explanation behind the Oman scum-read and the SpyreX town-read.

Anybody wanna lynch Nexus? Still not really understanding hte massive amount of Ludihate. Can someone please bullet-point the reasons he is scum?

I could certainly swing for Nexus but I'd want to talk to Shift about it first. Really the main reason I have for Ludi being scum is that a lot of his posting earlier in the game came across as unnatural and had a lot of fluff and filler, his attack and read on Alchemist comes across as contrived and he soft-pushed away from Implosion and Implosion did a similar thing towards Ludi. With that said I'm nowhere near confident in him being scum, in fact all my scum reads at this point are incredibly muddled up and I'm having trouble putting them in some form of order of strongest to weakest due to it. Pretty much here's where I am:

Strong Town Reads:

MoI, Glork, Alchemist, Tierce, Toasty, Tammy, Gamma, Nikanor, Dana, Hind, DDD.

Weak Town Reads (S->W):

Dramonic, TSH, Grey, Singer.

Null Reads:

Shmugen, UN, Oman, Avening, SpyreX.

Scum Reads:

LLD, Ludi, Nexus, Kats.

UN, the "I always read Gamma wrong and I read him as town so he must be scum" argument is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

@Duplicity

– if we are going to lynch an non-contributing lurker let’s make it Katsuki or Oman please.

Consider it somewhat meta but I think after Nexus's failure as scum in Ponybash this sort of play and lurking from him is exactly what he'd do as scum which makes him by far the best lynch inside the lurkers. I wouldn't oppose a Kats lynch either I suppose but I'm not feeling Oman-Scum right now, it's an incredibly weak reason but I found his "I haven't played for ages why are people sheeping me!" comment earlier a very slight town-tell. Also DDD is town, his back/forth with SpyreX is a town-tell.

An for oman scum, it's because he hasn't really DONE anything. His first couple posts contain a vote on Tierce and not much followup, and then he segue's into voting GreyICE and leaving his vote there until the MoI wagon comes roaring along. Even though he has 15 posts, none of them really do anything or attempt to convince the rest of the players in the game that who he is pushing on is scum, and I find that mentality and posting style more likely to come from scum than town.

I understand your SpyreX read and it's something I've been tossing up myself, I think overall I treat his whole 'I have no country' claim as a weak town-tell but that combined with his play which has been fairly lackluster leaves him sitting around null. What I do not understand is how your Oman scum read reasoning doesn't relate to Kates, Nexus and a few other people are doing the same thing or at least something highly similar. So why is he scum over them?

This is the problem I have with people voting me. I don't know what you mean by 'unnatural', as that just how I have posted this game, and I don't think I had a lot of fluff and filler, and certainly not more than anyone else in the game. I think I asked someone to show me who was the bastion of no fluff filler posting that I am being compared to that makes me woefully inadequate, and I don't think that response was forthcoming.

I don't think I soft pushed away from implosion. I said I he wasn't a good wagon, isoed him, thought he was town, and then left it. I am still surprised he flipped scum. I can't speak for what implosion did, but if you can point out exactly what you're talking about we can sort it out.

I can't describe unnatural too well, at least not at the moment. The person that you asked to show how you've been fluffing and filling was me, and I answered it to have no response from you to it at all, see; Post 493. As for why you found Implosion town I cannot grasp or understand that, literally nothing he did even seemed an inch town and his conversation and back and forth with Toasty was so bad that it was almost a scum-claim, your comment of 'dont like his wagon' and no future comment on it looks like avoiding a team-mates lynch, that's the problem I have with it. The Implosion thing is Post 1070, his addressing of your wagon is similar to that of yours to him, it's an avoidance of voting each other by stating dislike of the other persons wagon with no reasoning attached whatsoever.

That wasn't exactly my question. You called my attack on alchemist 'contrived', and I'd like to know what about it you thought was particularly wrong or out of place.

Ok, we've gone over this before once for the record but I'll do it again. Your attack reads as an OMGUS, it's you attacking him when he suggests you as scum and it looks like silencing a weaker player by insisting he's scum and therefore attempting to decredit his arguments through it.

I'd bet on the day-kills either being 1) Randomly determined in an attempt to speed the game up or 2) Done by a third party, vig doesn't make sense there at all as they'd just claim and give us a guarenteed second lynch a day. Also Shmugen scum flip increases the odds that Tammy, MoI, Hind, GreyICE, Toasty and Singer are town. Also increases the odds of Kats being scum. And Oman, he takes no stance on him whatsoever. Oh also TSH is town. Really like their latest reads posts.

Right now I'm;

Strong Town Reads:

MoI, Glork, Alchemist, Tierce, Toasty, Tammy, Gamma, Nikanor, Dana, Hind, DDD, TSH, Singer, GreyICE

Null Reads

: UN, Avening, SpyreX, Dramonic

Scum Reads:

LLD, Ludi, Nexus, Kats, Oman.

PEdit: Hey GreyICE and Alchemsist, stop being fuckwits, you're both town so lets not get into a stupid tunnel on each other.

Strong Town Reads: MoI, Glork, Alchemist, Tierce, Toasty, Tammy, Gamma,

Nikanor, Dana, Hind, DDD,

TSH,

Singer, GreyICE

Also how the fuck can you have a null read on Spyre, reg, Thats fishy as fuck

Stealing internet from some library that's somehow in the area while I'm waiting for a train so I'll try and go into these briefly, if you want one elaborated on more just ask and I'll do it tomorrow. Nikanor is town from a bunch of reasons but the largest of those is his back-and-forth with Implosion that I linked you to earlier makes him obv-town, Dana is based on finding Zdenek town though Danas play has been shit so far. Hind is town from his claim + the fact that he/implosion/shmugen don't work together as scum and I actually think I elaborated on this read for you earlier as well. I found DDD's conversation with SpyreX a town-tell, perhaps not as strong as most of my other town-reads but still fairly strong. GreyICE/Shmugen was something that's mostly based on interactions between the two - GI shat on MoI's town-read of him and given that Shumgen is apparently scum-boss don't think he'd attempt to kill any town-cred that he's given from other players. Singer is eh, partially similar to MoI earlier; I think her posts are so bad earlier that they're more likely to come from town-that doesn't give a fuck-her than from scum, also Shmugens vote on her makes me somewhat doubt them being partners.

And the null read on SpyreX is because I liked his 'i have no country' claim but I still find his contuined suspicion of Tammy and a lot of his scumhunting to be hollow - though I've liked his posts since the Shmugen flip. Pretty much just not confident either way in him to take a solid stance.

Hate to say it but Ludis town, his entire reaction towards Shmugens death re; Him being Micah came across as genuine shock and don't think it's what he'd fake as mafia, also think Shmugen agreeing with our scum read on Ludi over Implosion was probably to push the wagon towards town rather than partner.

Singers self-vote is ugh, think it's probably a town-tell though as is her 'multiple countries' claim. She should replace out instead of acting self-defeatist. Also Dana is an idiot, no doubt about that, but he's town and I think his 'i got a pm about MoI' fits perfectly with his questioning on them earlier today, he's not even for policy vigging, we have enough useless-scummy/null players to be dealt with. Nexus lynch is still awesome, Oman lynch is a decent alternative.

Really? Because 'Good job doctor' posts are like 50% from scum, 25% from the doctor himself. And the doctor in this case is a serial killer...

Understand your point. Disagree with your conclusion. It's the sort of post I expect from him actually.

Similarly, where can this conversation be found?

Starts around Post 1747 and ends around Post 1759.

My motivation for this game was killed by the Nexus wagon stalling, I'd much rather just lynch scum today rather than postpone it to another day and if by some slim chance he is town I don't see scum shooting him at all meaning we're just proloning the inevitable.

Oh and Alchemist; Dramonic is probstown but being replaced, DDD is town, Nexus can die, GI is town, Toasty is obvtown, Dana is town, UN can die later and LLD is someone I'd change to if people continue not to jump back on this Nexus lynch. So all in all most of your list sucks.

Hindu scum btw

No, he's town. Eyes on the prize and focus on getting LLD or Oman lynched.

[Tammy]

You know, Tierce, for someone who doesn't want people to assume things about you...like lack of intelligence and what not, you sure do spend quite a bit of time precalling what others are going to say.

Sure, I was going to say I wasn't interested enough in this game on day 3 when I had posted a couple times in another game and didn't here - even though I hadn't logged on but for a minute one night and didn't know this game had opened back up the night I did and didn't even log on the next day - but you're omniscient so you know what I'm going to say or think...sure. why not.

Did you look at Duplicity? Let's see. Scum read on Implosion and attempt to get us to lynch Implosion day one, apparently killed Implosion night one, since we can now believe the town-tracker UN from that night. Later decided that Shmugen wasn't town - scum. Worked to get Nexus lynched day two - scum.

Which one of their reads did they hold back on again?

They did have GreyIce as a townish read, though it was weak at first and later moved to stronger based on his actions.

So, yeah, we'll go with your thing that 3rd party reads are complete crap. I've actually experienced an opposite phenomenon wherein they are actually quite honest. And, we have no idea what his win-con was. So, since he quite rightly identified and tried to get lynched two of the scum team and said his town read eroded on Shmugen, I'm going to go ahead and place some stock in his reads being what he actually thought because if he was actually trying to lie and lay low, he was doing a

very bad job at it

.

Totally do not get the last part of your post. Nor do I have any reason why you're bringing DDD into it. And, I think it's rather funny that you try to condescendingly act like it's okay for you to have a potential scum read on me, which should at least be shaken by my play a little, and think it's out of the question for me to question your actions. Your actions to me read far more scum-minded than anything I've done or said, but hey...it's pretty easy to discredit my bit of research I suppose when you do things like discuss flavor, keep records of people's actions, and post vote counts. Yeah, you're totes town, and I'm an idiot to see that.

[Tammy]

^^^Should say "I'm an idiot not to see that"

I aslo think it's pretty ironic that you accuse TSH of having confirmation bias with regards to DDD when I look at the way you've behaved towards me this game, if you're town. I guess it's a lot easier to point out when someone else is wrong than to accept when you might be wrong yourself, eh?

[Tammy]

it's rather funny that you try to condescendingly act like it's okay for you to have a potential scum read on me, which should at least be shaken by my play a little

So you're not reading the posts in which I choose to dismiss you as town. Alright, Tammy. Go on.

Yes, I did look at Duplicity. Self-Aligned. That does not mean their goal is to lynch scum. You don't know their wincon either, so stop assuming they would do things as if hey were town. They were not a town vig of any kind.

And no, your experience with third-party does not match mine, apparently--I did talk with Vi about her play as limited-shot, non-BP SK after ERM. This might not be similar to Duplicity's play, but you're acting like their reads should be important without taking them with a serious, serious grain of salt--for that, you should be looking at dead TOWN who are good scumhunters, not Duplicity, because you don't know their intent.

Totally read that Tierce. You said you were willing to ignore me on the basis of Glork and Hindu. Still think it's rather amusing that you don't want people to question your intelligence and you use phrases like "willing to dismiss you as town." If you want other people to give you respect, you might want to start treating others with respect as well. I realize you've got this "I'm better than everyone else except the idols of mafia I choose to revere" thing going on, but I'm not impressed. And don't bother telling me you don't actually think this way, because your actions prove that you do...enough said.

Did you read what I posted? I very clearly stated that looking over it

might come of nothing

. I think that's a pretty clear indication that it's something I wanted to look at and think about but might prove to be nothing I can use. Really don't know how you missed that...since I stated it pretty clearly.

Who said I'm not looking at the dead town? Again, I clearly stated in the first IoA that I posted that I was reading the dead today - scum and town - I haven't posted dead town iso's but that doesn't mean I haven't read them...which should be apparent since I said I was reading the dead today. I don't know Duplicity's intent and didn't say I did, but their actions speak to someone actually looking for scum, so I'm going to take another look at their interactions. I

am

looking at dead town, both lynched and night killed. Shit, I practically have Spyrex's last reads list memorized ffs. Just because I'm not posting it doesn't mean I haven't read it. What I'm posting are things I want to look at without the distractions of their others posts and have struck enough interest in me that I want to look again.

You are doing it again Tierce. You are assuming things of my mindset

that you can't possibly know

I never once said they were a town vig or that i thought they might be.

I'm looking at all the evidence I can...with no assumptions at all. As I said when this day started I'm reassessing everything. My strong scum reads are dead. GreyIce was scum; I had him as town. LLD is apparently town; I've had her as scum. ML - I've had as an on/off scum read; the same with you Tierce. I'm not taking anything for granted, hence the research and interaction between dead scum.

[Tammy]

No, both Hindu and I would die if I'm targeted. I don't have a bodyguard, he's a one way lover to me. My only protection is being able to leave.

But if the scums are looking for 1-2 more people on The List, and neither of you are on it, they probably won't waste a nightkill on you, especially when so many people are cleared.



Two points on the whole Tammy and Hindu thing.
Tammy should confirm herself today. I think there's VERY little downside.

Hindu should attach himself to someone extremely questionable, so that if the scum want a 2-for-1, they have to eliminate another potential (mis)lynch target. I haven't decided WHO I want Hindu to target yet. Tammy's not a terrible choice. I've also thought about having him pick Toasty, Ludi, Nik, or Singer. Of those five, I'm leaning

slightly

towards Nik, but it's pretty up-in-the-air.

Explain why you suddenly think I need to confirm myself. Also, how did you miss that Hindu already attached himself to me?

[Tammy]

Why. Aren't. We. Lynching. Tierce???????

[Tammy]

I will fucking strangle anyone who says she's obvtown...when I have yet to see but minimal town motivation from her all game.

[Tammy]

Seriously, Glork. Explain. You are the one who told me to rescind my day commute to prove myself in the first place. Why the sudden turn around now?

I COULD HAVE DONE THIS DAYS AGO.

The only way I will prove myself at this point during the day is if Dana also comes in and says he needs proof.

[Tammy]

I'm not reading all that, Tammy. As I've said, I'm resigned to pretty much ignoring you.
I was simply saying you should take Duplicity's posted notions with a grain of salt. Now do whatever--I'm not really sure what you posted on that answer to me since yep, I'm enforcing a skim-restriction for myself--I have better things to do.

Well then fucking at least read this little bit if it strains you so fucking muck to read a few damn paragraphs:

"Did you read what I posted? I very clearly stated that looking over it might come of nothing. I think that's a pretty clear indication that it's something I wanted to look at and think about but might prove to be nothing I can use. Really don't know how you missed that...since I stated it pretty clearly."

[Tammy]

VOTE: Tierce[/vote}

[Tammy]

Dammit.

VOTE: Tierce

[Tammy]

No Glork - You need to explain fucking better. You're telling me that someone who made a derp claim of a useless character on day one and went bitch cray cray over a fake dayvig, which read very very fake to me, is protown. Please explain to me how that behavior negates her near zero scum hunting for the remainder of the game? Please explain to me that. Look at how I reacted; look at how she reacted. She hasn't done shit all game but focus on me or UN...she even tried to lynch Alchemist the night he counterclaimed. Re-read that night please and tell me if it makes sense? Look at the UN night. That's the most passionate she's been about a lynch...and it was on a town tracker...of course she's going to use your passion and frustration and drive to direct that lynch. Re-read UN...tell me he didn't read fucking town. I realize you were blinded, but W.T.F. I tried to point out to you guys why UN made sense when she claimed. Why would I do that as scum???

How can you guys not see this???

I still need to iso her, but she glommed onto the MoI wagon (And if you think for one second ScumTammy would go after TownMoI the way I did, you must have no way to read people's behaviors. Re-read Closed Normal to see how I am as scum - I don't stick my neck out like that and wouldn't in the case of someone whom I know could rip me to shreds). But, did she vote for Implosion? Did she try to argue against a nexus lynch? Did she immediately vote Alchemist for counter claiming Grey? Look at the way that Grey tried to steer any attention away from Tierce. Serioulsy, look at what I posted in the iso's.

Glork. I didn't get a free pass. You supposedly claimed they were wrong to press me for the way they did, so what's up now?

Why why does her derp claim and shitty play negate my play which I think has been pretty strong and you previously characterized as being so. Does acting like you don't know the flavor, derp claiming a small role, which could be a fake, and going outrageous fake cray cray over a fake vig overwhelm someone who's been honestly scumhunting the entire game and has given an honest claim that is actually potentially on the list???

Tierce is not protown. I'm fucking protown and I have been from the start. And for those who thinks that I can't be kiled; I fucking can. And if you look at my reaction to the day that Alchemist blocked me, you'll know that I believed I can be roleblocked. And for those of you who think it's some unlimited action, I only have a finite number of times I can use it and have been playing russian roulette with it in hopes of prolonging the nights that I can use it.

And, if you think there's a possibility that I'm scum, why the hell do I keep telling you all that I left the night that Toasty was blocked in an attempt to get you all to understand there could be another reason for there being no kill that night???? Like seriously, guys.

But, seriously, dana is the only confirmed town here, and should be back from vacation in the next day or so, if he demands I proof my role to you I will otherwise, I won't. And, yes, I can proof it today as I didn't leave last night.

[Tammy]

Glork - I've given the flavor of my character and ability several times. I'm a fucking traitorous person who no one wants around apparently, except that the empress demanded my presence. I got my role on day two after Shmugen's death. I breadcrumbed it immediately in Post 2001 but as me in Post 2002. Sorry if it's lame; it's my first breadcrumb.

All I know is that I got an email with an ability right after the Shmugen death which talked about the battlefield and it being bloodthirsty and that I gained the ability to leave. I can leave day or night but not in consecutive phases.

No, I didn't do anything night two. I claimed that I forgot to use it but it's not true. I, as I said, have only a finite number of times I can use it, and as I didn't think I would be a potential night kill, I didn't use it that night. I mean seriously, would you have killed me night two?

All I can paraphrase is that I am Naesala, the King of Kilvas, no one wants me here (lulz character reflecting game) but the empress who demanded my presence, and day two I got the duck out ability. All this is verifiable in the thread, as it's been repeated more than once. And no, I had nothing until the day I got the email telling me I could duck out. This is compatible with Alchmest though. If you look, he said he got his ability day one after Quilford's death.

I used it night 3 after I name claimed and after Hindu didn't die as we thought I didn't. Alchemist blocked GI the next night so we don't know who he would have killed, but since Hindu didn't die night 3 I didn't use it night 4. Maybe we got lucky? I offered to proof my role day 5 but no one took me up on it. I used it night five, the night that ToastyToast was blocked. So, that adds another reason for why there could be a no kill that night (as I've been trying tell you guys for ever and if you think scum me would stick my neck out like this you're fucking crazy), but I didn't use it last night. I wasn't up front with the fact that I can only use it a finite number of times because my fucking god you people why the fuck would I; I fucked up my wincon enough by name claiming in the first place why can't I hold back from telling you the limitations on my role and try to salvage what I already fucked up. The fucking hunrgy hippos tell you that they kept back information and no one fucking bats an eye, but god forbid I try to make sure town wins.

You say that scum might have only two more people left on their list. Do you have any fucking plausible reason to believe I'm not on there? Because if not, why the hell would you even consider the possibility of me proving myself today?

As far as your personality analysis of Tierce...doesn't fucking hold water with me. I fully believe she can go cray-cray and as that whole exchange felt completely fake to me, I don't see where you're thinking it the fucking ambrosia of the gods. And, if you're unwilling to look at other's behavior, as I've pointed out my own, then it holds no wash as far as I'm concerned. Because here's what I know. Tierce has done jack shit this entire game. She rode that cray cray fit through the end. She's done absolutely no scumhunting whatsoever. She glommed onto the MoI case, that I put forward (a case that in retrospect was bad but I believed it in earnest). From the top of my memory she's discredited when I had doubts about players (one of them being scum-Shmugen). And did not vote for Implosion day one. Day two argued against a Nexus lynch because she wanted her blankie even though she was supposedly a minor throw-away character. Day three she pulled up one of the worst cases of mankind against me because I "posted in another game once" when I didn't even know this thread was even open and then wasn't even on this site to post in game threads the next day. She has behaved in exactly the ways I've seen her behave as scum and you're negating this as TierceTown?

Nononononono...this is Tierce looking for easy mislynches. Has she scumhunted this entire game? I know that she's been calling herself obvtown a lot and i know that she's been posting vote coutns to look busy...something she does regarless of alignment. SHE'S FUCKING SCUM. Look at the way she reacted to me on day 3. Tell me that's not scum. she fucking called me a liar. That's not town trying to determine the truth of someon's alighnment. Everything about her is designed to facilitate mislynches. I don't care what type of personality you think she is or is not capable of producing. If you're not going to re-evaluate the scum game I told you to of mine, you have no position whatsoever to pull meta crap out for Tierce.

Let's look at day 5. That's when you lynched UN right? Please explain to me why she was so rabid about lynching UN? I wish. I so fucking wish I wasn't on V/LA those days because you guys were like a rabid bone lost without reason. And the weird thing is Glork, I could understand you and why you pushed, but Tierce? Opportunistic as a motherfucker. Like, did you guys actually think that day??? I showed you on the day that he claimed tracker that his track of duplicity made sense. If you look at his behavior on day 2 you'll see why the Spyrex issue made sense. Like fucking really!!! But, y'all lynched him anyway. Read back over that lynch please. He dropped so many fucking town tells it's not even funny. If you're town, Glork - which I truly believe you are - think about who was profiting from the lynch of a town tracker.

Please take a step back and think about this. Tierce's most passionate lynch of this game was against a town tracker. Why is this not raising any red flags at all??? (Oh because she doesn't have the personality capable to fake cray cray? Are you telling me that the next game I play I get to go batshit and be excused from the rest of the game??? Oh wait right, I already did, but now I'm being questioned and someone who looks fake as fuck is not...gotcha)

Let's move on. So, GreyIce gets wagoned and claims Sanaki. Tierce immediately goes cray cray again and accuses Alchemist of lying when he counterclaims and votes him. So, I'm sorry. Please review that evening. I'd really like for you to tell me which one of us was trying to actually determine the truth between the claim and counterclaim and which one of us when bitch cray cray and tried to get the real claimant lynched. Yeah :>>

Modkill event horizon so nothing to see here.

Present day....let's try to get Tammy to proof her role during the day. Let's once again erronesously claim that she hasn't answered enough questions about her role. YES, FUCK YOU ALL I DIDN'T TELL YOU EVERY LIMITATION SO SCUM WOULDN'T KNOW WHEN AND HOW THEY COULD KILL ME FUCK YOU. She's called me a liar, she's said I haven't been upfront when I have, and this is protown. Kay. Town almost deserves to lose at this point if you're listening to any of her cray cray fanatical business.

[Tammy]

Jesus fuck, Tammy. I hope you enjoy that humble pie when the game is over if you're town. That's blatant misrepresentation of situations and selective analysis.

If you are town too, we can both enjoy a piece of humble pie at the end of the game. Because if so, there's a whole lot of blatant misrepresentation going on to share and I have never been afraid or ashamed to admit when I've been wrong.

[Tammy]

[quote="In
Tammy, I feel like you need to confirm yourself at this point so that we can narrow down our list of potential lynches. We are near (if not already at) endgame. There are 1-2 scums left. There are 1-2 people left on The List. It is

imperative

that we confirm as many people as possible because we cannot afford a mislynch at this point, and there are people who think you're more likely than most to be scum.

Tell me Glork...one. fucking. scum. motivated. thing. I've. done. all. game. that has made you willing to lose this fucking game for town if I'm the last one on the list???

Be honest with me Glork. I've offered to prove this more than once and now that we're down in potential numbers, you're asking me to leave myself completely open so that town has a better chance to lose???

Help me understand?

I've lost all faith in Glork...if dana tells me to leave I will, otherwise, I'm not and you guys can lynch me tomorrow to satisfy your paranoia or wincon.

[Tammy]

...you don't realize I'm calling you town, do you.

I know I've been wrong a lot in this game (hello scum buddying me it feels so nice), but you're going on about "you're assuming motives for my actions!" when you're doing

exactly the same

with me. This is a world away from my scumplay, and no matter how contained you want your game to be, you've had experience with me before and this should be self-evident. Please sit back, reread my play in full, in-context, and then we can talk. Right now, it seems that your case boils down to "Tierce was wrong and she was aggressive toward me!" Well--town can be wrong (and I'm wrong a LOT), and town can be aggressive against you even if you're town. See SpyreX. I was being aggressive against you because, among other things,

I had doubts your alignment

--I dunno, to me this seems a pretty townish attitude toward things. >.> <.< (The other main reason is that I'm pissed at Immigration. Sorry, this has nothing to do with the people in this game or with MS at all, it's a bitchy mood and I should be curbing it a lot better than I am.)

Anyway. Good night. Please go analyze things without preconceptions about my alignment (you have them, otherwise you'd at least acknowledge several instances in which there was a very evident town mindset--and that's okay, I'm not saying it's not natural to be wrong, etc., but you're kind of voting town here and that

bothers me

), and then I'll go over things with you.

1. No, I didn't realize you were calling me town.

2. People are wrong a lot and so am I...that's not my point.

3. You say this is a world away from your scum play, and I know this is worlds away from mine as well...I gave you the meta you asked for...it should be pretty evident. I'm not reading you as scum because you're aggressive towards me. You noted Spyrex. I read him as town since day one. His read on me seemed genuine and that's what I look for. Look how upset I was voting him on day 3 even after he had voted me on day 3. He was a strong town read of mine, no matter his read on me, and I hated voting for him. I really don't work with preconceived notions, or I try not to as best as I possibly can (I am human though). You should know that. You've played with me...you read GvE right? I mean my worst weaknesses are giving up town reads who are actually scum. Not the other way around. I'm far far more likely to have a scum read and realize I'm wrong and make it town than otherwise. I've been accused of waffling precisely because I'm likely to change my mind on a read for seemingly no reason at all, and I don't care about the criticism I receive for it. I'm going to give as accurate of a read as I possibly can. It's like I said yesterday when I was re-evaluating your play and mulling it over over...some things fit for scum and some things didn't. That should let you know...no preconceived notions.

4. Immigration issues suck and I sympathize. I have a friend who spent far longer than she should have to get her fiance over here so I hope things work out for you soon.

5. Okay...we'll talk later.

[Tammy]

What are your set of town read Kats?

[Tammy]

I feel like there's something glaringly wrong with that plan. But whatever. It's late, and I'm done for the night.

Looking forward to the constructive/destructive criticism.

I'd give you criticism because your plan fucking sucks and you're dead from me strangling your ass if you actually have me as less protown as fucking Toasty and Tierce. Like seriously, w.t.f. were you smoking when you came up with your damn list.

Like, I'm really trying hard not to be insulting right now because I totally respect you as a player, but we redheads are not to be trifled with and you've put me on my last nerve...just sayin.

[Tammy]

Can you both fucking take my word on it that you're both town so we can move on. If I flip town, at any point in this game, that's the condition. You can't vote for each other. Ever.

You both can vote me if you really want to fucking go at each other's throats.


Glork's plan is ehhhh, because Nikanor/Toasty should definitely come before singer.

<3

[Tammy]

@gamma arent you forgetting something

Begnion = Sanaki (me)
Gallia = Caineghis [mightbe wrong on that one] (whoever you are, keep it a secret at all costs)
Phoenicis = Magua (dead :<)

Kilvas = Naesala (Tammy. Never lynch her. She doesn't need protection. Which is good. Tammy is the ace up our sleeves.)

Serenes = Rafiel or Lorazieh (whoever you are, keep it a secret at all costs)
Goldoa = Dheginsea (whoever you are, keep it a secret at all costs)
Hatari = Nailah[Maybescum?] (whoever you are, keep it a secret at all costs)
Crimea = Elincia (whoever you are, keep it a secret at all costs)

Yeah, I read the dead (town and scum Tierce, I wasn't joking). Would I kill the guy who wrote this ffs??? Huh Glork???

[Tammy]

Tammy, I feel like you need to confirm yourself at this point so that we can narrow down our list of potential lynches. We are near (if not already at) endgame. There are 1-2 scums left. There are 1-2 people left on The List.

Fine. How are you going to prove yourself? Huh Glork? Why is there an all of a sudden push that Tammy needs to prove herself that wasn't there before?

Yep, you're probably right there's one to two scum left on the list, and there's probably one to two people left on the list.

Why oh why do you want me to make it easier for those limited scums to kill those who are likely limited town on the list?

Do you, in your infinite wisdom, have any idea who is on the list. I mean if you do, please share, because if I'm not on it, I'm perfectly willing to die. However, I care about the town wincon and I thought you did too.

If I'm repeating myself, I'm really sorry, I'm just at a bit at a loss by the player I've trusted the most all game. I really thought his win condition was the same as mine.

dana - you're the only real town person here...tell me what to do.

[Tammy]

VOTE: Glork

[Tammy]

I'm voting Glork because his turnaround on me doesn't make sense. On day three he told me not to proof my role because it was more important for me to stay alive due to not only my role but my behavior. Now, he's advocating me using my role after I've explained why it's not advantageous for me to use it for the best interest of town, and after I already offered to use it twice. I've clearly explained my role, and he's acting like I didn't. He's claimed that there might only be one or two people on the list, and is saying that I should proof my ability today while at the same time acknowledging there's not many of us left. How is that acting within a protown agenda? He is actively refusing to acknowledge anti-town behaviors in some and pro-town behaviors in others as it suits him. How is that protown??? How is that working within what we believe is the town wincon??? If I am the last person on the list, he is saying that I should leave myself vulnerable to a nightkill tonight. How is that acting within a town wincon???

[Tammy]

Yeah Glork...except I dont' go all let's fucking insult people for no reason.

That was a legitimate fucking statement Glork...nice of you to ignore that. But all right.

[Tammy]

I'm going to cost us the game by getting into it with "obvtown" people. Are you kidding me? How has Tierce been obvtown?

No, I'm going to need you to detail this little lesson plan for me.

You have I've town for the entire game, but it's not going to keep me from questioning you Glork, especially when you're advocating a plan THAT I BELIEVE WILL HELP TOWN LOSE.

So, excuse the fuck out of me if I am going to research and scumhunt and not leave anyone as confirmed because they went cray cray on day one.

I could barely lead anyone into following me that would cost us the game. I don't have enough town-cred in this damn game to do so, so don't you even play that game with me. I could shout from the roof tops who the last scum were in this game and

no one would fucking listen

because no one here thinks I'm competent or town enough to give you anything informative. It doesn't mean I'm not going to do the best I can, but I'm fully aware of my limitations here and for you to think I in any way shape or form could cost this town the game is laughable.

The only way I could cost this town the game is if I am on the list and I leave myself open to a nightkill.

Don't insult me Glork. I don't live in a fantasy world and I read that list; it didn't negate for me what you said earlier. And it's fine, but it doesn't seem like you're including everything in your analysis. I've been doing my own research and reassessing things, and it has nothing to do with you're questioning me, but what seems like logical questioning of the entire play. Like, seriously, if you would look at things from my pov - my role, player, ability - and what I've been saying to the two people who've been questioning me over and over for the past two days it should be really evident why I would start to be suspicious of you wanting me to all of a sudden proof myself even though YOU are the one who urged me not to the day I offered. If I was vanilla, or not on a list that I thought would help scum achieve their wincon this wouldn't be an issue, but sure make it about whether or not I'm able to handle suspicion during a mafia game. Sure, don't look at the fact that I posted a fuckton of information that I wanted to research to help me make sense of near-endgame. Sure, don't acknowledge that I said all of my reads were up in the air after the events of recent days.

My turn on you is based on facts. On day 3, you said I shouldn't proof my role. Look back to your reaction. I didn't proof it. That was before the Nailah claim so you can't use that shit on me. All of a sudden, even though there's been no change whatsoever in my approach to the game, you tell me I should proof my role. I've now offered twice to do it during the day. The first time, you said I shouldn't. The second time no one said I should. At least two leaders have died since then, and you've made it perfectly clear that you believe only one or two is left on that list. I believe, Alchemist believed, most of us believe, there's a good chance I'm on that list. Today, in my interaction with DDD while trying to determine his motivation and alignment, I've laid out what I believe about my role and the chance that I'm on the list. It is no secret what I think, so for you to say that you think I should proof it after what you've said over the past couple days and the suspicions I've raised over those who've said so? Yeah, I think you're suspicious as hell for it Glork. It has no bearing on my ability to handle mafia.

But, I think it's pretty amusing that while I'm doing

the exact fucking thing you are

looking at everyone - maybe challenging the town standing of supposedly obvtown you and obvtown Tierce, you are telling me I'm not mentally capable for mafia for questioning me while getting annoyed at me for questioning the two of you. Just for your reference, Glork, if I didn't think that my character had any standing or bearing on the town wincon, this wouldn't be an issue for me.

[Tammy]

^^^Really should pedit: Addressed to Glork. Sorry Lord Obvtown Glork and by way of his mistress obvtown Tierce *lulz*

[Tammy]

hey tammy you should post more words that nobody will read

I'll try...Is there a topic you'd like an essay on? I'm a writer.

[Tammy]

OMG..I'm never voting for Katsuki in a game ever ever.

Funny people are town always and forever.

[Tammy]

hey tammy you should post more words that nobody will read

I'll try...Is there a topic you'd like an essay on? I'm a writer.

COLONIAL VIRGINA

also incorporate what katsuki wants in it somehow. preferably colonial cupcakes vs. the imperial english muffins or something.

No problem! I lived in Virginia for a while; it's one of the coolest states so you know.

Oh and Singer, no, you probably don't need to read the essay addressed to Glork.

[Tammy]

fine whatever.

I really think that if we lose this game for any reason other than that "welp scum only had to kill 4-5 people and they had a roleblocker to stop the bodyguard so gee geeeeee"

it'll be because we all got so damn frustrated at this game that we thought people deserved to lose no matter what their likely alignment is.

so stop with the insults and go over the game, both of you please. if you want to be helpful go over greyice+schmugen's posts and tell me who you think the most likely scum is based on that plus what the individual players have posted so far.

tammy people change their opinions constantly in games like this. yeah it would have been better if he had asked you to do it before now but I don't think him asking you to do it now is a scumtell, especially given how many generally scummy people just died with greyice+the triple modkill.

glork I know you're irritated at what she's saying but don't be an asshole about it. It'll just tunnel us further into this fuckhole.

But, gamma did you not see I was researching scum and their interactions; I posted it tonight to go through. I'm over flowing in dead rhetoric right now.

And, maybe it's not a scum tell to ask me to do it now. I don't know though; if you legitimately think I'm on the kill list and there aren't many left, you have to see why it's raising suspicions for me.

[Tammy]

Funny enough, the English Muffin was scum in Cupcake Mafia...

http://inception.davepedu.com/

O.M.G. That's awesome.

[Tammy]

Like, I really don't think lynching one of LLD/DDD should be what we do today. I just don't and I can't really explain why.

You've gotten quite convincing there.

@Tammy and Tierce: Really guys? No one in this game wants to read all that bickering. If you want me to read the cases you have on each other then please just lay it out in simple bullet point format. Its just looking like a back and forth OMGUS

Can we just go with Glorks plan? If DDD doesn't flip scum, we'd still clear a lot of things up. And yes, I realize that I am implicated with the Alchemist roleblock and such but I really feel clearing up LLD/DDD will give us the win.

But what do you think about my Glork's back and forth? Am I just too mentally ill-equipped to handle mafia?

Here's a (old) song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPt4dx4v ... re=related

[Tammy]

I'm voting Glork because his turnaround on me doesn't make sense. On day three he told me not to proof my role because it was more important for me to stay alive due to not only my role but my behavior. Now, he's advocating me using my role after I've explained why it's not advantageous for me to use it for the best interest of town, and after I already offered to use it twice. I've clearly explained my role, and he's acting like I didn't. He's claimed that there might only be one or two people on the list, and is saying that I should proof my ability today while at the same time acknowledging there's not many of us left. How is that acting within a protown agenda? He is actively refusing to acknowledge anti-town behaviors in some and pro-town behaviors in others as it suits him. How is that protown??? How is that working within what we believe is the town wincon??? If I am the last person on the list, he is saying that I should leave myself vulnerable to a nightkill tonight. How is that acting within a town wincon???

Hi, in case you haven't noticed, after progressing through things piece-by-piece, I put you back on the neverlynch list. Maybe if you'd actually read the game and stop living in your own fantasy world, you'd realize that.

In case you're having trouble finding it, Tammerson, it's Post 4734 and Post 4743.

By the way, what you're accusing me of being scum for doing is something I do all the time in endgame. You expand your bubble to include all setup/role/scum/interaction possibilities, and then through some combination of behavioral play and role/setup/mechanics knowledge, weed out the least likely possibilities. I've done it for years. It works. And yes, it leads to me temporarily questioning things that may have seemed obvious before and/or after the fact, but if you seriously have THIS much of an issue with someone bringing up the POSSIBILITY of you being scum that you're going to flip a complete shit on me, you should probably rethink whether mafia is the right game for you.

That's all I'm going to say on that.

Good night.

So, you're saying that as long as people are accepting your ever lording Glorkness you're civil, but the moment they question your intentions, you insult them and don't recognize that they might have legitimate reasons to question your intentions while at the same time claiming to have legitimate reasons to question their intentions. Just want to make sure that's clear, because it sure looks like a pot. kettle. situation to me. I mean because I'm really gonna go mirror mirror on the wall...welp.

[Tammy]

I'm drunk...now but is everyone gone?

LOL Kats Mina posts are a little like Tammy posts...fucking LONG...except Mina posts have more of a point than Tammy posts. However, Mina posts have more of a self-doubt streak while Tammy posts have a bit of an emotional streak. (or so I've been told by people who have incorrectly alt-guessed us.)

[Tammy]

Well, Mina's posts are better than mine for more reasons that that

[Tammy]

Tammy - claimed a country leader, and hasn't died yet - but I can put this down to not wanting to waste a kill (or maybe actually wasting it - see no kills) - so okay

As far as a commuter being blocked, I'm working under action resolutions that I'm used to from my site. If someone guards a commuter, they can't leave, because the guard action resolves first. If it's different here, and I can't be blocked, then awesome.

As far as missing kills or why I haven't died yet. There is a possibility I'm not on the list anyway, but I did claim on day 3. Since then:

Night 3 - MoI killed - They had already claimed to be a country leader and were masons
Night 4 - No kill - GreyIce was blocked
Night 5 - No kill - Toasty was blocked and I left
Night 6 - Alchemist killed who was Empress Sanaki.

[Tammy]

Okay so, Implosion went after Toasty, TSH, and Dramonic. Tried to steer votes away from the Magister Ludi and GreyIce wagon in Post 1070. Thought DDD could be scum. Thought Nexus was null and Nikanor was probably town.

There was some interaction between Toasty and Implosion but most of it dealt with why each thought the other was scum, most of it seemed rather natural though and none of it looked staged. Also, since he said that GreyIce was a meh lynch and seemed to be steering away from one partner, I'm not seeing bussing here. Also, Toasty in his reads had GreyIce, Implosion and Shmugen in his scum list and Nexus in his null. Although he said that he wanted Shmugen to post soon but complained about the posts he made. I'll have to go back and look at that.

Magister Ludi's interaction with Implosion didn't feel as natural; however, in Post 1169 he apologizes to Implosion for asking a question. This would be a little strange for a partner to do as any communication would be understood as trying to make it look like they weren't partners so there would be no need to apologize for asking question in a certain way.

But, I don't like that Implosion called the ML wagon a meh one just like the GreyIce one.

So, not sold on a Toasty partnership, but could be a possibility of a ML one.

All right, tired...look at the rest tomorrow.

[Tammy]

*sigh*

unvote

Glork's been a strong town read for me all game; the only thing that changed it the other night was paranoia seeping in over him wanting me to leave during the day so that I could be killed at night.

I need to think and read through some stuff later.

[Tammy]

dammit

unvote

[Tammy]

Okay so, Implosion went after Toasty, TSH, and Dramonic. Tried to steer votes away from the Magister Ludi and GreyIce wagon in Post 1070. Thought DDD could be scum. Thought Nexus was null and Nikanor was probably town.

There was some interaction between Toasty and Implosion but most of it dealt with why each thought the other was scum, most of it seemed rather natural though and none of it looked staged. Also, since he said that GreyIce was a meh lynch and seemed to be steering away from one partner, I'm not seeing bussing here. Also, Toasty in his reads had GreyIce, Implosion and Shmugen in his scum list and Nexus in his null. Although he said that he wanted Shmugen to post soon but complained about the posts he made. I'll have to go back and look at that.

Magister Ludi's interaction with Implosion didn't feel as natural; however, in Post 1169 he apologizes to Implosion for asking a question. This would be a little strange for a partner to do as any communication would be understood as trying to make it look like they weren't partners so there would be no need to apologize for asking question in a certain way.

But, I don't like that Implosion called the ML wagon a meh one just like the GreyIce one.

So, not sold on a Toasty partnership, but could be a possibility of a ML one.

All right, tired...look at the rest tomorrow.

Nexus wanted to lynch Alchemist, and called out TSH for calling out Toasty for not mentioning Shmugen and seemed annoyed with TSH for it. Hmm...okay don't know what to make of that. Thought Ludi's hop onto the MoI wagon was terrible. TSH is the only one of his scum read still alive.

--------

Shmu -

Voted Singer, Toasty and Magister Ludi while here.

Scum (S-W) Toasty, Ludi? Singer? *Insert Lurkers here*
Null (Scum to Town): *Insert more Lurkers*, DDDP, Alchemist, Nikanor, Haze, LLD, Dramonic, Zdenek, Grey, Wyrd, Spy
Town (S-W): Tierce, Glork, Duplicity, Tammy, Gamma, MaguaoI

One of the last things he said was: "I can go for a lurker lynch if Ludi isn't going to get the axe. Oman, Nexus, Katsuki, take your pick."

---------

GreyIce - Pretty much immediately went after Toasty, but didn't have a strong scum read on Ludi. Also tried to direct the wagon away from Implosion and onto Katsuki. Thought Tierce was obvtown, attacked Toasty for not putting Katsuki in his town to scum list and for calling him scum for going after Katsuki (or something like that). Voted Implosion saying that it beat the shit out of a Ludi wagon, then voted for Quilford because it beat either MoI or a Ludi wagon. Next day voted Nexus while screaming that he and Ludi were obviously town (he was drunk I think - no judgment cuz heh but speaks to his mindset) and screamed that Katsuki should be lynched instead. Said Singer was scum and had some interaction with DDD (doesn't really loooook like partner interaction).

This was his read on LLD after it was requested by MoI:

"LLD is... I dunno. She's whining up a storm, but she'd happily scumplain about something for as long as she could. She's calling me a good vig shot though, so I'd return the favor ^_^"

In fact they had very little interaction most of the game.

What he said after the Nexus lynch:

"The vig should vig from this group if Nexus flips scum: Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gammagooey, SpyreX, Nikanor, danakillsu, UberNinja, kanyeknowsbest"

One of his last mentions of LLD and vote on DDD.

Vote: DDD

I am 100% convinced that UberNinja and LLD did not concoct some amazing plan to match claims in their Quicktopic. Meaning at best 1 of these 2 is scum.

Were I going to vote...

um...

*sigh*

I like LLD more, so I'd probably vote Uber, but based on gameplay coin flip.

She was on Nexus exactly long enough for it to be a bus. Yes, honey, you bus like a madman, I am aware of this.

Uber, otoh has done jack.

But my initial vote?

Oh I like that one.

-------------

Duplicity

Scum but by the time they were killed on night two they had pushed Implosion scum, Nexus scum, given a scum read on Shmu. Decided near the end of day two that Ludi looked town based on his reaction to the Shmu flip and wanted to lynch LLD if the Nexus lynch didn't go through but had a town read on DDD.


All right so basically Shmu and Nexus disliked things that Ludi did, but GreyIce and Implosion were directing attention away from Ludi.

Nexus is the only one that didn't actively go after Toasty though.

GreyIce going after DDD like that on day 3/4? could be bussing, but as they were already down three I don't know that I buy that he would go after one of his last remaining partners that day. This is before the Sanaki claim, so they were potentially still up in the air over who their targets were. Seems a bit dangerous to bus. Especially if GreyIce's earlier claim that there were 24 motherfuckers to mow threw was a number slip and there was only one left.

But, here is the end of the day vote count on GreyIce:


GreyICE (LYNCH) ~ Alchemist, Gammagooey, Benmage, Lady Lambdadelta, Glork, Katsuki, Hinduragi, Rhinox, singersigner, (danakillsu), et al.
Benmage (L-8) ~ GreyICE, ToastyToast

Not Voting: Teleporting Speed Hippos, Debonair Danny DiPietro, kanyeknowsbest, Magister Ludi, Nikanor, Tammy, danakillsu, Tierce

Okay don't really know what to make of that, but hmmm... I don't think any of that helped to clear things up as I hoped it would be.

[Tammy]

Yeah Tierce you should probably compare the two vote counts that are a whole 5 posts apart on this very page.

[Tammy]

Oh derp never mind. Still the blue number went up by one with one page of posts.

[Tammy]

Okay so, I was all ready to come in here and vote LLD after what I posted after looking at the dead. Now, I'm uncertain.

I don't see DDD as scum. As I said I think it would be odd for Grey to have bussed him the way that he did when Grey was suspected by several people and DDD was not, especially if they weren't aware of all their targets. Feels odd.

Several of the scum did tend to actively push away from a Ludi lynch and I had a day one scum read on, but I also did for LLD.

Anyway I need to think. I'm sorry I've been MIA this week, it kind of fell apart for me.

[Tammy]

My theory on DDD might not pan out barring a couple things. If they only had one more target they needed to get, ie Empress Sanaki and DDD lied about at least one of his targets, which I'm not sure I believe. It still doesn't make sense for DDD to refuse to claim on day three while his partner Grey bussed him hard. He would have needed DDD alive to find their targets or they would have been shooting in the dark. They only knew Alchemist was Sanaki because of the counterclaim, and I full well believe they didn't know who Sanaki was or Grey wouldn't have bothered with a claim that he knew would be countered. And I don't think he ever investigated Kanye (off the top of my head - I'm being quick about this sorry). So, I can't see him bussing his country cop on day 3 when they were down three and needed to learn who their targets were (assuming they are the leaders as we suspect.)

Does, this make sense. I'm sorry I'm rambling.

[Tammy]

For DDD to be GreyIce's partner and for the targets to be country leaders, then he bussed him before learning about me, Kanye, and Alchemist. (Well, not exactly me since I was investigated night two.) This doesn't seem right.

[Tammy]

Although DDD - Why did you investigate Spyrex on night one? He was such a strong town read of yours, you were willing to sheep him. Seems an odd choice. If you answered this already, sorry, but I'm not going to go look back.

[Tammy]

Glork - Have you looked at the interaction between GreyIce and LLD? They were rather noncommital on their reads on each other as far as I remember, and the day of the UN lynching (or before), Grey was far more in favor of a UN lynch.

[Tammy]

Hence why I said I was all ready to come in here and vote LLD and now am uncertain.

[Tammy]

Oh meh...they only learn country and there was more than one from Begnion and Crimea.

[Tammy]

VOTE: LLD


I will feel horrible if I gave all kinds of reasons scum DDD couldn't be scum, but sadly that would be me going back to my end game or near end game roots. But, I had a day one scum read on LLD and as she said day one don't lie, right? Or we can hope anyway. (I've had wine, if none of that makes sense, disregard it.)

[Tammy]

LLD...if that's true how do you explain DDD and GI's interaction on Day 3. How many mafia do you think are left, and why would GI bus DDD on day 3 like that if he wasn't sure of who his targets were (if they are country leaders as we suspect and as would be supported by GI claiming to be Sanaki.)

Oh, based on the Sanaki claim and result; Ike might be out there?

[Tammy]

But that doesn't match up with how he behaved regarding Nexus or Implosion. He actively tried to steer attention away from those wagons and onto Katsuki or elsewhere, so why would he behave differently with his country cop?

[Tammy]

What makes Ludi more likely than LLD? Quite honestly I had scum reads on both of them day one and will listen.

[Tammy]

What makes Ludi more likely than LLD? Quite honestly I had scum reads on both of them day one and will listen.

It's just that ML has done absolutely nothing positive this entire game, he hasn't once had his vote on a scum player, hell, he hasn't had his vote on an unflipped player outside of you. And then LLD, if she was going to run a miller claim why not open the game with it instead of waiting until she claimed to do it unless of course she wasn't expecting to be investigated.

That being said, I'm not sure Glork or Hindu are willing to vote ML any more / at all and I'd need both of them to lynch ML. Not sure if the other people currently voting for ML will all move over to LLD as well so maybe both I and the town are just fucked but I need to look over them on those grounds.

Duplicity claimed that ML's reaction to Shmu's death made it more likely for him to be innocent. (Yes, I know third party but he didn't seem to be holding back in his reads.) Overall I don't know what to make of ML, but he's still quite suspect to me...could be confirmation bias on my part.

[Tammy]

Well that was a whole bunch of bad pages with some nuggets inside.

I am absolutely 100% fine with being the lynch today with the caveat that after that is done and I'm set free:

1.) UN dies.

2.) LLD dies.

3.) EVERY BIT of this cloak and dagger bullshit with these softest of claims goes away. All across the board.
4.) Tierce or someone else does a proper full out VCA and looks at it in detail.
5.) You promise me that if we start moving towards endgame Glork isn't there. Call it official paranoia.

Despite the bad end results I think KKB is town. I can follow the process even if the end result is bonkers.
I dont think its definitive that Hindu will die and even if he doesn't Hindu is town.

There is absolutely nothing about my role that would have interfered with not one but two attempts to do something to me. Unless someone wants to fess up with interference I'm calling nonsense from at least one of those.

Also, to make this even easier, I'm pretty sure under any realm of normalcy with the SKUM LIST I'm probably not on it. So, get it done.

Its all I wanted

It wasn't much.

I feel really bad for not being able to make it happen. I wish I'd had more energy to put into the game this last week and more confidence to get it done.

[Tammy]

Was there a dead QT?

[Tammy]

Congratulations team evil! This is the third game I'm in that resulted in a scum win within a week Although two of them I had great reads, but couldn't get them lynched, so at least the reads were all right. GreyIce is the only scum member that I read as complete town, so good for you for fooling me GI!

Sorry for being absolutely convinced that you were scum Tierce. I really didn't have a whole lot of reasons to believe you were innocent. I think that there are probably aspects of our personalities that are similar which cause us to but heads though.

GI - I listen to the dead

It was a lot of fun to play (most of the time), emotionally draining at times, but fun nonetheless. It was really great meeting all of you that I've never played with before

Thank you for letting me play Vi and hosting it!

Good game all!

[Tammy]

however there is of course this /flex

LLD could be a mafia rolecop though. She did claim Daein. Scum often claim flavor that is close or identical to their source material as to not risk being called out on flavor details.

@tammy yes, its humongous

Where is it???

[Tammy]

Shmu - It wasn't necessarily the big list of people when replacing in although it does come from scum sometimes who are trying a bit too hard. Obviously innocents do it to; I know Regfan does when he's innocent. It was the big list of reads combined with what was written that set off the alarms more than anything. If the reads would have seemed really well thought out - like your last list of six seemed then it might have been a little suspicious but not so much if that makes sense.