Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Tammy]

Oh and if LLD ever flips scum - please look back at how Tierce discredited my initial possible scum read on Shmugen and LLD. It was subtle and metabased but it was there and deserves attention in the case of LLD being scum.

[Tierce]

You mean this?

LLD ragefits regardless of alignment. She vanished for days at a time in Destiny Mafia, as a VT, claiming to be extremely pissed off with the game and players and having no patience to play the plan as SpyreX had outlined it because town was pussyfooting about. She catraged in Warlocks and Werewolves as town, on D1.

This is not new. It ain't a scumtell.

This is absolute truth. Lying about provable meta would be one of the most stupid things to do as scum, and I've learned my lesson.
I can link you to the source material. SpyreX is here. He can vouch for this.

GreyICE

is here. He can vouch for this. Why would I lie on saying a behavior was a

null tell

? It'd be RED ALARMS all over.


Tammy: I'm not interested in pursuing this further due to my read on you, but I want you to at least try and understand that: 1) there was more to my read on you than site presence 2) I am not responsible for your schedule and I don't have to guess it if you don't post any kind of notice here 3) please stop saying

what

you were doing posting in a different game, that's against the rules.
There. I'm through, won't be pushing this, and if you want, we can talk post-game. Or not.

This is a game of mafia. People are going to be calling you scum, sometimes right, sometimes wrong. People will misrepresent situations, accidentally or on purpose. Town is an

uninformed majority

. It's the principle of the game. Accusations are going to be made. Stop taking it personally. I have nothing against you, I'm not 'disappointed' in you and while the game is ongoing I don't particularly care about your "disappointment

[going]

both ways", since I don't know your alignment. I'm here to play, I'm here to have fun. And I'm here to root out the scum and

we're kicking ass

.

I suspected you, possibly wrongly. Don't think this is a deliberate insult or that I have a vendetta against you; you signed up to play as well. I understand frustration at the game, and I understand getting angry at people who take it too far and get personal, but I have no ill will against you. I'm sorry if I was condescending, and I'm sorry if I offended you in any manner. It was not my intention.

We're wrecking face. Let's continue. The game is supposed to be fun for everyone.

(My safety Nex-blanket was hanged and turned out to be scum. You'd be distressed and paranoid too! )

[Hinduragi]

Can't, Gamma. I looked at her D2 or N1 or something because I wanted to see about it and saw something that made me think she was town.

Vote: UN

[Hinduragi]

My point is that Hindu's questioning flavor, when it's apparent that there are people who aren't actually dead-in-terms-of-flavor who are dead-in-the-game.

I'm questioning if she actually

dies

explicitly, or if she just "goes away", doesn't proc my role AT ALL, and "wtf just happened" becomes the general consensus of thought.

[Tammy]

Can't, Gamma. I looked at her D2 or N1 or something because I wanted to see about it and saw something that made me think she was town.

Vote: UN

And yet you were willing to derp wagon me today.

[Hinduragi]

Can't, Gamma. I looked at her D2 or N1 or something because I wanted to see about it and saw something that made me think she was town.

Vote: UN

And yet you were willing to derp wagon me today.

You're very easy to get reactions out of and you were chilling and not claiming. There was no way I was not hopping on that wagon, no matter how many times I had to.

[Tammy]

Can't, Gamma. I looked at her D2 or N1 or something because I wanted to see about it and saw something that made me think she was town.

Vote: UN

And yet you were willing to derp wagon me today.

You're very easy to get reactions out of and you were chilling and not claiming. There was no way I was not hopping on that wagon, no matter how many times I had to.

Cool...cool. So, you didn't really have a scum read, but it was all worth it as long as you got my claim.

[Hinduragi]

Nope. You could've been scum after the activity jump, your reaction to the wagon, etc. More votes always help.

[Tammy]

Oh wait...so you read through LLD and find why she might be town according to you, but you're ready to flash wagon me over I'm not sure what this activity jump is. More votes always do help out a claim...you're right.

So, in all other respects, you're calm and reasonable and you research, but today you went FLASH WAGON AHEAD. Just want to make sure about that.

[Tammy]

Vig, I swear to god, if you're part of this wrong, you better damn well be making it right.

Hindu, is there a reason you seem against a Nexus lynch today when you posted this yesterday?

Code: Select all

Dramonic
Nexus

Meh. Toasty raged when I put him on lynch before too and he was town then. This is pretty similar. Yes, we need a fucking lynch. But it's dumb to lynch someone because you're too lazy to switch over.

Unvote; Vote: Dramonic

I'll also hammer Hippo or Nexus.

Yes, there is. From the way the wagon's going, the way Oman's wagon is going, and how Oman's been "the more likely to flip scum" in almost every comparison I've seen, I'm pretty sure Nexus is town.

So, Hindu...just want to look at how careful and reasonable you've been in previous days. Here's what you thought about Nexus yesterday. You thought Nexus was pretty sure to flip town based on your "evidence". But, today, you were willing to flash wagon me based on whatever, faulty meta, and force me to ability claim.

Can you explain to me please the differences in your approaches for the days?

[Tammy]

Implosion read is sort of interesting.

You're chasing the wrong thing. I can tell. Please stop clogging the thread.

So, was he chasing the wrong thing? Was Implosion the wrong thing?

[Hinduragi]

You know what, yeah, I've been wrong. Does that mean you need to rub it in my face? Really? Look at what you're doing. That's been consistent with your general attitude throughout this game.

So, in all other respects, you're calm and reasonable and you research, but today you went FLASH WAGON AHEAD. Just want to make sure about that.

I will wagon anything at any given time.

Can you explain to me please the differences in your approaches for the days?

There aren't any. Lynch scum. Win game.

That last post. You know what. Fuck this shit. I don't have to put up with this. I've used my ability on you. Enjoy killing me.

[Hinduragi]

This game is unenjoyable in almost every aspect due to part of the playerlist just being crappy. I don't care if you're town or scum or in what world you thought it helped you play to your wincon. You ruined it for me and plenty of others here. Glork almost fucking replaced out just because of it. Spyrex is going on hiatus because of it. This game should've been fun. It's a fucking Vi game. While I get that we're all human, make mistakes, etc. etc., this is ridiculous and you should be ashamed of yourselves not as players but as members of this site.

[Tammy]

So, wait, you tell me that I'm easy to get a reaction out of. That you did it to get my claim and now you're mad because I'm questioning your behavior?

I never once was blaming you for being wrong. I've handed games to scum before.

What I'm questioning is how you go from saying various scum are innocent. Being cautious about other people's reads, but then thinking that it's fun to get me to react to claim.

Hindu - Why don't you read the things you said to me today, and then read over the questions I've just asked you. All I'm trying to figure out is your thought process. You suspected me, wanted to lynch me and get me to claim, and I'm not allowed to figure out who was on my wagon and why?

[Hinduragi]

Implosion read is sort of interesting.

You're chasing the wrong thing. I can tell. Please stop clogging the thread.

So, was he chasing the wrong thing? Was Implosion the wrong thing?

If this is questioning my thought process on your wagon, why I'm on it, and not making fun of me being wrong, then I'll be damned.

I was on your wagon because it can't hurt to see where it goes and what Tierce said about your posts was true, albeit whatever real-world excuses come up, which I personally have, as town, been lied to by scum about(See LLD in Defcon 3 on Cryptography). Real life excuses don't mean shit and shouldn't play a factor in behavior in games. It was obvious we probably wouldn't get anywhere near lynch, because we'd already been there D1, DDD's quickwagon had just ended, and a lot of people like to take time and gather thoughts before quickwagoning again. Even Spyrex knew that. The wagon can promise scum coming up and had a claim that has been hinted at(scum hint at fakeclaims too for towncred in some cases) but isn't full revealed for whatever reason, especially yours.(See Tim's post about day/night role with the picture. That was actually pretty funny and, if you reread it knowing what the role actually was, it's even funnier) The claim obviously couldn't hurt and it was sketchy as fuck. Of course I'm hopping onto that wagon for the content it can produce knowing I can hop onto someone else's at any given time. What we got from it was we can probably confirm town. The other option is that you might be scum if the claim doesn't 100% roll on by or you got roleblocked(which, ironically means scum lose in using their RB on you, thereby keeping me alive to kill you, or keep you alive for the time you use your ability and let me die). Either way, there's almost guaranteed to be confirmed town for a day phase or more simply via roles.

[Vi]

Mini Vote Count (29):

(left to right) Kurthnaga, Dheginsea, Nasir
Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-4) ~ Nikanor, GreyICE, singersigner, Katsuki, Lady Lambdadelta, MaguaofIllusion, kanyeknowsbest, ToastyToast
UberNinja (L-7) ~ SpyreX, Tierce, Magister Ludi, Glork, Hinduragi
Nikanor (L-10) ~ UberNinja, danakillsu
Tammy (L-11) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro
Lady Lambdadelta (L-11) ~ Gammagooey
kanyeknowsbest (L-11) ~ Alchemist
singersigner (L-11) ~ Tammy

Not Voting:

Teleporting Speed Hippos, Benmage, Rhinox,

Hinduragi

--With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

40

[Tammy]

I am absolutely, 100%, not making fun of you for being wrong Hindu. Like I said, I've literally handed scum games before. I would never make fun of someone for being wrong.

I'm really trying to figure out your thought process. ML said today you were one of the voices of reason; hell I argued for you being likely town on day one when a couple people claimed you might be scum.

I'm just literally confused that someone who has been so thoughtful, and supposedly is so say with LLD just now, wouldn't be in this case. I claimed to have a nation yesterday, twice said I got an ability out of the blue, pushed Nexus for more information for a claim because of it, which I even stated, and today said that I believed I was on the mafia hitlist. I just don't understand how someone who has been so thoughtful decided to think it was fun to try to get a claim and a reaction out of me. And, fine, RL excuses suck, but did you actually look at my site activity that Tierce posted, because I can't believe anyone could look at that and think I was avoiding the thread. Why would I avoid this thread? I wasn't being pressured, which is usually when people avoid threads for alignment purposes. I just didn't come here on Sunday night when the thread had just opened. And, I didn't even log on yesterday, so I wasn't posting in games. That was a lie.

It might have been obvious to you that you wouldn't get anywhere near a lynch, it wasn't obvious to me. And you had to know that was true because you said I'm easy to get a reaction out of. (I'm not reading anything that Tim posts for the rest of the game...or the rest of the time that I'm alive so don't really care what his picture was).

But, was it worth it. You've been careful and thoughtful about everything else, but pushed for a reaction here. I pulled up your thoughts on the dead scum, not to make fun of you but to figure out your thought process, because to me with you going after me for the funsie reactions but being really thoughtful about scum I don't know what to make of you or your alignment right now.

[Tammy]

Nope! Tierce. You don't get to say I'm breaking the rules, when you POSTED MY SITE ACTIVITY. If you post my site activity, I'm allowed to say that I asked a question in that site activity that you posted. I'm allowed to say, please read what I posted in the site activity that you posted to prove my guilt. I don't see how you think it's appropriate to post my site activity, wagon me for it, but I'm prohibited to say what was in the site activity which you posted.

You need to take responsibility for what you did. If you are town, you started a counter wagon on me, which was the result of activity which for some reason you decided I was guilty for during a week when I was busy and for someone who reads every single game on site it should be apparent that I was, you pull up my site activity which proves nothing at all other than I logged on and posted in one game and wasn't even prodded in this one, brought in incomplete team mafia meta to use against me (seriously, did you read the team qt...did you read the discussion as someone who actually knows me thought I couldn't be scum because of bussing because it actually goes against my personality)....yeah scum meta....did you know that argument was real from my end? No, Okay.

It does not matter what you say your read on me was. As I've shown, you posted my site activity, which was a sum total of two posts in one game on Sunday night, said Oh Really and voted me. Others followed suit. You said I was posting in other games on site while this one was exploding. I didn't even read this game until today.

If you had doubts about me for whatever reasons you could have interacted with me, but you didn't. You posted my site activity and helped to start a wagon on me based on that. You don't get to now go, oh but there were secret reasons.

I didn't need to post any kind of notice here because I still posted within game expectations. It doesn't matter if for a few days I didn't post several times per day, it was pretty damn evident I was keeping up with the thread and posting on a regular basis.

But as long as we're going to play semantics, doesn't this post show that you know I'm town. I mean I can't have lingering doubts of you being scum, if I am, in fact, scum right?

@Tammy: Christ, if you still have some kind of nagging feeling I'm scum, you have too much respect for my poor unfortunate scum play.

If you are town, you did suspect me wrongly. But, it's not that you suspected me, but the manner in which you went about it and rallied the troops and fueled the fire. You can't pretend that you didn't. And, I'm not going to blame anyone for me breaking down and name claiming, and MoI might think it was a stupid thing to do - I might beg to differ - but still I left enough hints yesterday that I had something, that I belonged to a country, and today that I thought I might be on the list, and all that was ignored in favor of the Tammy must be scum let's make her claim manhandle her to get her to show us her power insult and force her to submit tell her to replace out because she sucks. And no, you weren't insulting. Condescending, yes, but I'm condescending myself in my own right so I'll give you a hard time about it but I won't take offense. I don't have any ill will against you either and enjoy playing with you. But, still you helped to fuel it and there was no legitimate reason for it. Suspicion? Fine. Full crusade against me? No. Throwing up faulty evidence to start a counterwagon? No.

You literally said that you knew I was going to say I only post in games that I find interesting. You literally said that. You had no idea that I didn't actually read this game until the time that I started posting, and you were saying what you

knew

I was going to say. It's a sentiment I've never said. I've only ever said that I don't post in every single game every day, and sometimes if a game is nearing deadline I pay more attention to that game or if there's something major going on in a game I pay more attention to it. You claimed there was no excuse for me not to post, but I hadn't read the game. Those aren't accidental misreps Tierce, those are full blown mischaracterizations, and if you can't look at the sequence of events and see how I find it damn suspicious, well I don't know what to say. And I find your behavior along with DDD's behavior, the timing of it, the circumstances of it, everything, extremely suspect.

[Hinduragi]

If you ever want to find out my alignment 100%, you can just action. The PM's already gone through. I got confirmation that Vi received it. So my end wasn't roleblocked(obviously).

LLD is someone I have a townread on. DDD is too. Their wagons are ones that would be 100% serious and 0% experimental. If I read you as town, I probably wouldn't have even opposed the wagon but just wouldn't have hopped on it.

And yes, I saw your activity before you posted. You were on for a part of a day.

I'm not reading anything that Tim posts for the rest of the game...or the rest of the time that I'm alive so don't really care what his picture was

That can be pretty bad. Tim's almost certainly town and his posts are going to be jokingly thrown around but he's right about stuff and when he wants someone lynched, it'll be actual content. He has jokes, but he does it in good spirit. That's better than I can say for other parts of this game.

[Tammy]

Sunday night. I was on for like 10 minutes Sunday night. If this game would have even entered my mind on Sunday, I would have used my role. When I got the role, I thought to myself how stupid I would feel if I didn't use my role the day I got it and was targeted for a kill. And, I went and forgot anyway, partly because I was busy and partly because I have a tendency to forget about my roles because I'm an idiot.

I'm not 100% clear on your role. I'm literally dumb when it comes to role issues. When I leave at night does that mean you're safe too?

[Tammy]

Oh, and Tim entered mean spirited, so yeah, not gonna read his posts. If something is important, pretty sure someone will repeat it. I don't care if that's anti-town.

[Hinduragi]

Sunday night. I was on for like 10 minutes Sunday night. If this game would have even entered my mind on Sunday, I would have used my role. When I got the role, I thought to myself how stupid I would feel if I didn't use my role the day I got it and was targeted for a kill. And, I went and forgot anyway, partly because I was busy and partly because I have a tendency to forget about my roles because I'm an idiot.

I'm not 100% clear on your role. I'm literally dumb when it comes to role issues. When I leave at night does that mean you're safe too?

When you leave, I die, thereby confirming you are town and not scum lying about your role.

[Tammy]

Why did you do that? I don't understand why you would die. How am I supposed to leave if my leaving kills someone else?

[Hinduragi]

Cause my role's a piece of shit anyways and I can make you an innocent child for any day phase pending my death. Scum either can kill you or are forced to have an innocent child in the game.

[Tammy]

But I'm still confused. Why will you die when I leave? And why would you even do that. Who cares if you're role is a piece of shit. Why would you do something that would make you die?