NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Ms Marangal]

Heyheyhey

Copter, were you scum in mastins game? idr

[Ms Marangal]

Oh

fuck

this is why I don't phone post :/

i will fix these when I get home

[Ms Marangal]

so do I but I have jusy been informed that he has been ckmpromised so I have to stop being lazy :-\

[Ms Marangal]

UNVOTE:

[Ms Marangal]

Nacho, I am scumreading you because your reads are too PC (politically correct). You have the read that you

have

to have in order to not set off alarm bells for players like ffery. There is nothing new and exciting about them.

I seriously hope someone like Regfan replaces in.

this is an incrediby dumb reason to scum-read nacho. His reads can be shit as town, and his reads can can be low key as town. I have direct experience with that

Pedit: jesus, no

[Ms Marangal]

WHAT JUST HAPPENED

A bunch load of replacements. Thoughts?

[Ms Marangal]

One of things I look for is whether he is leading lynches on scum. In BB:HoH mafia, I had an easy townread on his hydra (although the read was heavily influenced by Tammy who was a lot more transparent). Mostly, it was because he had two scum pegged and pushed for their "eviction" (essentially a lynch, see the game mechanics). It worries me that he doesn't have a single strong scumread or pushed the lynches of any scum so far. I'll know he is town once he lynches multiple scum. He did make the SSK push and that alleviates my doubts somewhat but I haven't seen much else since then in the way of leading scum lynches.

He will lead mis-lynches on town, as town. Him not having a single strong scum-read isn't a means for concern, and frankly it's Burden of Proficiency. That's pretty much all I've heard RE scumcho and it's all GM can give me at best. Cabd believed that the points I touched upon for towncho wasn't good enough so I gave him a chance to directly interact with him, and hoped he could see exactly what I see but :/

[Ms Marangal]

Sixty game, is the most recent one.

[Ms Marangal]

But, he's also had "go with the flow" reads in our first hydra game, as well.

I also think that, there were a few newbie games I was stalking featured him going with the flow.

Pedit: so?

[Ms Marangal]

Yep

[Ms Marangal]

Thor's posts.

[Ms Marangal]

because, he is actually the stronger source for the Casso-townread and I don't see how him being anti-town makes him scum

[Ms Marangal]

Us-GM- mason
SSK-Doc

there were a few more, but that's all you need to know

[Ms Marangal]

those are the only livings one, IIRC

[Ms Marangal]

He didn't read the thread, the only reason Thor had voted you was because he wanted a vote, a lynch and I had given him an outlet. Thor didn't really have a read on you, Nacho did and his push on you is more my fault than his

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: muffin

[Ms Marangal]

At this time, I think it is likely Norlkaz is scum.

I disagree, his tone, especially today, feels townish

[Ms Marangal]

Thor, Iso yourself. Nacho has made a town-case on F-16

[Ms Marangal]

But... I'm on my phone

give a sec, I guess :/

[Ms Marangal]

Llamarble flies by the seat of his pants more than Norlkaz does.
Norlkaz is much less noisy and needs to be caught up before becoming active.
I have read through page 120.

In a game this large I believe it is difficult to lynch scum without a couple of town leaders.
I was planning to be one today, but I failed to bite in to the necessary degree.

I shall read Stuffed Crust now and either put down a vote or put down a reluctant vote.

I like this post, and I think it contributes to his awkwardness in his gameplay, here. I had one game with Llamarble, none with Norlkaz. In that one game, He was able to figure out who was the other scum-team, and figure out that my lover was anti-town (I think) and I think that, he was also onto me. He called out some key townies, and got them to work together. N1, the team that could kill got rid of him

I wasn't really fond of his play, and here, it feels nothing like that game. The fact that Norlkaz has to be caught up before he makes any contributions and after this, he becomes a little but more pro-active while still trying to do what Norlkaz does

[Ms Marangal]

I am caught up, but figuring out who to lynch will take more time. This is not an easy game.
Cephrir and Bert stand out as capable scum who are currently active but not in the trenches.
I don't especially trust Generic, but tilting into someone who will probably claim a PR is worth at least a few points.

A scumteam based on Pieguy, whom I don't understand the townreads on:
Pieguy
Bro
BBQ?
Muffin or Desp
Ceph

VOTE: PieGuy

He'd be an effortscum, but how many players are left who wouldn't?

Casso is still an option. F16 less so.

I am somewhat disgusted by MC / GM being masons, but they laid considerable groundwork for the claim and haven't backed down.
It's worth mentioning that Marangal claimed masons as scum in Wingate, but she was also scummier in that game.

this post was a little weird and I think that he, as scum, would make sure that he has the facts straight before making a accusation like this. as town, he would care less about the actual facts, and maybe get a reaction out of it... or something

[Ms Marangal]

Those of you who have played with SSK before are welcome to tell me why the below aren't good reasons to townread him.

• Here are some posts that use emphatic wordings I find somewhat more common from town than scum:

  WHAT IS UPPPP? SSK HERE REPLACING ROFLWAFFLE.
  Tammy=Uber Town
  

  Vote Korean BBQ

  I'm always ultra defensive, and I always give a readslist when I replace in. I always talk theory with ffery. For all alignments. None of these are indicative of my alignment.
  And yes, you are misreading me. Heavily.

• "Don't you want to know why I'm voting you?" is a towntell because town believe their vote Matters and others should care about it whereas scum are usually happy to be ignored.

  GIF, why are you not curious about why I voted you?

• He actually considers a response to him, and instead of inventing a new justification or going somewhere else he stays where he is because it's a :real: gut read:

  Hypocrisy isn't a scumtell.
  I like serious votes. But thanks to that explanation, I'll rescind my attack on your reasonless votes being scummy.
  Fair points there.
  Meh yeah. I guess I wasn't giving a wide enough scope. But as I said, it's mostly gut.

• Immediate and emphatic reactions tend to come from town, unless something high-stress is going on:

  PEdit: See! That post right above me does the same exact thing! Oh "They look like I'm scum talking to town. Or that's really weird sentence right there, SSK". I see your reasoning right in those lines of how exactly I'm sucm. Stop trying to vote low hanging fruit, Ceph. I was townreading you earlier. Now, I dunno.

• He shows a decent chunk of believable scumhunting effort here:

  It's a Pieguy ISO Dive everyone!
  

  Spoiler: Pieguy ISO Dive

  Total Contribution= 64 posts
  Average Player Contribution=1050/20=53 posts= PASS
  
  POSTS:

  warning: lazy as fuck catchup post so I probably missed a lot of shit
  
  22 Sakura scum. I'm having a shitton of trouble believing this post came from the same person who always preaches "reasonless RVs are bad", and MC Maraca hadn't posted yet, so I don't see how it's not an RV.
  47 giving me weird vibes. it seems really really serious compared to the rest of the thread. not sure how comfortable I feel with that given he's townreading geists for being "at ease". however this is gut and looking back on it later I think this makes him seem town. it seems he legitimately wants to get the game going already
  55 tammy town
  70 goodmorning town
  139 I agree MC seems town
  173 I'm liking BRO's willingness to work with a mutual townread here. however, I still have paranoia from imperishable night. he doesn't seem like he's trolling as much here, which may be a good sign
  184 goodmorning even more town
  238 MC town
  256 give me bourbon plz
  
  this is really weird for me since I still feel like a lot of the game is in the fucking around stage. anyone who knows me knows that I generally get going immediately. oh well
  I'm also not liking Ceph atm, but it's mostly gut and I can't be assed to go back and find anything specific ._.
  
  284 I'm kind of ass backwards skipping over a lot of specific shit here, but I'm especially curious about this
  312 this, I grok. fuck it, BRO can go into the townpile
  326 not liking this argument. Brian hasn't even posted in like forever, so he didn't really have much of a chance to push anyone else at all 0.0
  340

  Except where it doesn't make sense, I keep my stances pretty transparent.

  huh
  362 what the fuck is that vote. he posts all these giant reads walls then votes someone who he hasn't even mentioned? dafuq
  365 ok finally smth apparent I noticed about Cephrir - he didn't out his opinion the deals when the first one came up and all of a sudden he does it on this one? it's convenient how it happens to be when people are saying Nacho looks scummy. this makes me think this read was based off convenience and not legitimate scumhunting
  415 huh I'm seeing what you all are about Generic - in fast and furious he seemed pretty adamant about getting Telo lynched
  445 Generic can be town too
  451 "hey I'm just going to buddy everyone who's scumreading me so I won't get found out"
  463 what the hell is that I thought for some reason maraca was townreading Tammy I need to go back and look at this again
  546 I don't like this on a playstyle level. in practice it's probably not alignment indicative, but read the fucking game make areal vote
  
  haven't seen anything at all since 546. probably bc I'm being a lazy fuck atm. I'll just wing it from here and hope for the best
  
  other things of note, KoreanBBQ has a shitton of content and there's nothing in there that gave me a townread on them. feeling kind of icky about them atm

  Fairly typical catchup post. Wish the statements had more behind them, but whatevz, mine was worse.
  

  town
  1. Tammy
  2. geists (fferyllt + Natirasha)
  4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal)
  10. pieguyn SonOfZeus
  
  probably town
  5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon
  6. Generic
  11. BROseidon
  14. goodmorning
  
  null
  3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665)
  8. MafiaSSK roflwaffles
  9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon)
  12. Brian Skies
  16. pitoli
  18. DOMO
  
  lurkfuck/unsorted
  7. roflcopter
  17. talah
  20. Desperado
  
  scum
  13. KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain)
  15. Sakura Hana
  19. Cephrir
  
  

  @EVERYONE:

  if one of my townreads or null-town reads is wrong who do you think it probably is?
  
  

  @KoreanBBQ:

  what's up with that statement of how Varsoon is scum if he had less than 2 posts at whichever point? I'm especially curious
  
  let's fucking go \:D/

  That's a pretty awesome readslist. And it has questions. A reason given with each would be cool, because I know that these can be faked but the depth of the sorting, almost counteracts that.
  

  also
  

  vote: Sakura

  
  GET READY I'M GONNA TAKE YOU ON A WILD RIDE

  Nevermind that. Never gives a reason for voting. Sure in future posts there is justification but future justification can retroactively prove pieguy's vote.
  
  Like when pieguy does try:

  1. Because it's Maracabd and us 3 go ways long.
  
  2. Who's the one WIFOMing here?

  1. see that's my point. given you always say that reasonless RVs are bad, why wouldn't you just out the reason at the time when you made the RV?
  
  2. this is one of the most deflective answers I've ever seen and doesn't actually answer my point. not to mention you don't even say how my post is WIFOM. can you explain plz? also, I'd appreciate if you could answer the question directed towards "EVERYONE" in big bold letters at the end of my catch-up post

  1. I didn't have one at the time, I just wanted to leave a post in the thread.

  I don't get it. can you explain further
  

  2. You're the one that's bringing it WIFOM about it, I repeat, why wouldn't I do something I normally do as town when I'm scum rather than something different?

  no I pointed out a valid reason and you're the one who chose to put up a WIFOM defense by going "why would I do xxx as scum"
  

  @KoreanBBQ: what's up with that statement of how Varsoon is scum if he had less than 2 posts at whichever point? I'm especially curious

  Simple. I've never read Varsoon wrong. Before that post, if most of the posts were from Varsoon, that would be way off his usual townplay and would be most likely scum.

  why do you have mac as scum?
  
  I haven't looked into SC's posts more but if Varsoon has made more posts since then how's your read on him coming along?
  
  which of my townreads do you think is wrong?

  It's just questions towards Sakura. It's never definitive. That's why the vote exists as a definite statement that you think lynching the person will be beneficial towards town. But I digress.
  

  anything specific you like about him?

  @BBQ:

  what are your thoughts on Cephrir?
  
  

  @Cephrir:

  what are your thoughts on BBQ?

  I like these two posts though. They're genuine and prove a benefit towards town.
  

  that doesn't really help me >_<
  it reminds me of how zmuffin and you had the least specific townreads on each other in imperishable night, and you both were scum 0.0

  Your seemingly-blank-looking-null read on Casso doesn't help anyone either ♫
  (a.k.a. Why null?)

  he's been pushing people all game but I think he does that as both alignments so I don't wanna write him off as town just for that. I'm not sure I like his jump on pitoli. it seems really weird considering he hadn't included pitoli in his reads list wall before then. aside from that, he's in kind of the same boat you're in where htere's a lot of content and I'm concerned that none of it makes me wanna townread him. I moved him up to null bc I've liked his pushes on people, but I'm keeping my eye on him
  
  also, how the fuck am I supposed to get a better read on Sakura when she only had like 3 posts? if it seems too easy it's bc I had to make a judgment based off hardly anything. her few posts that she had lean scum and that's all there is to it

  @F16: the first part was due to this

  At least two of them are not Town.

  I liked this stance and how she's being upfront about questioning shit that she thinks is incorrect
  
  the second part was this

  On pure odds I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you.
  1. It's not a stat course.
  2. Odds distract people.
  3. Unlikely =/= impossible, and it's not even that unlikely.

  it's another stance that shows she's holding true to her beliefs
  
  my read on BRO is a mixture of both of those things. there was another game we played where I had him as null-town almost entirely based off gut and he was scum (thankfully on d2 I turned that shit right around). some of the stuff he's done in this game, combined with the fact that it doesn't seem to match that game, makes me feel somewhat comfortable with him as town atm
  
  generally it means that, at the time of that post, I have that person as town for various reasons. it can be bc of a certain post or a culmination of a bunch of things up to a certain post
  
  in fast and furious Generic was town. he had a scumread on Telo, he wasn't backing down, and he seemed set on getting her lynched (eventually she got lynched and she was town). so I agree that the fact that he's more agreeable here seems odd

  K, pieguy. I get it you're town.
  
  Keeps doing townie stuff for a while until here:

  yo I'm town as fuck. wanna work together?
  
  in the meantime, why do you think geists's posts feel off?

  Mentioning that you're townie, even if it is true, is always scummy. And in addition, trying to force a townblock is scummy, but I mean, I guess it could be town? I dunno.
  
  And then a couple posts later comes this even worse post:

  #swagginwagon
  

  vote: BBQ

  Which is just sooo off from pieguy. Sheeping? Getting on a wagon? With a complete lack of reasoning or even interaction with BBQ, beforehand? I don't get it.
  
  Then there are these two posts:

  what the hell is going on I don't even

  talah where the hell have you been o.o

  That feel like an odd form of buddying/ pieguy not being himself. Pieguy asks questions. There were no questions directed to the players motives here.
  
  But all returns to normalcy in the following post:

  idk I was townreading her but I'm starting to have reservations about her too
  
  Tammy brings good points. also, I find it awkward she seemed really excited when I replaced in and she hasn't interacted with me at all since then. that plus Generic's point makes me think some of the stuff she's done so far is fake 0.0 I'm being a lazy fuck right now so I haven't really tried to do any formal sorting, but that's where I'm at
  
  what do you think about Sakura so far?

  good town stuff.
  
  And that carries on for a while. Lots of questions, lots of reasoning.
  
  Then the only other posts that bother me are recent:

  While it may be easier to townhunt, how do you not get in a cycle of confbias? Especially when someone reaches the point where they can be on your townbloc, then you're looking for why they can still be town and not why are they scum. It's less effective and more prone to bias.

  do you ask this every single time someone forms a townbloc or what
  
  like whats the point of this question. do you srsly think forming townblocks is alignment indicative?
  

  As for the basis of my reads, there were no particulars otherwise I would have mentioned them. Most of them were just my gut feelings. Take that as you will.

  are you at all confident in any of those reads
  
  I'm ok with this
  

  vote: SSK

  Here because the vote has had no reasoning for pieguy to go after me ever. And then continues as such.

  I'm pretty confident with my gut? It's usually right, but I like to have substance behind it. So not all the way confident.
  But why are you voting me? What makes you think I'm being scum?

  you don't seem confident @_@ mostly bc you didn't mention anything until you actually gave said reads list, and your tone in 1042
  
  it looks like you're just trying to coast through D1 by asking random questions. I'm not entirely sure on you being scum, but screw it
  
  now that I think about it tho, I made the same mistake with you on imperishable night

  Confidence is apparently a scumtell, not giving reasons in a readslist is also apparently a scumtell even though pieguy dd the same.
  And I ask questions. That's how I hunt. Just like you.
  Your case on me is bs

  
  QED: I just wasted an hour. Pieguy's town. But has a few odd quirks that give it reasonable doubt.

• "I don't understand this wagon" is a way of phrasing things I've noticed I employ much more as town than scum.

  I don't see why StuffedCrust is the leading wagon. They're pretty town IMO.

• This is believable; "I am so not getting lynched today" is the kind of thing a Real PR who expects their role to keep them alive says:

  Okay. So there's not enough time now and I am so not being the lynch of the day.
  
  

  I am the doctor of this game.

  
  
  Scum can kill me fine, but I am not getting policy/deadline lynched for lurking again. Not as the doctor.

• The "I think Geists is a great asset to the town but not a good choice for town leader / what masons?" line of thought sounds genuine.
  It particularly sounds :Unguided: so I'll be impressed if it turns out to be a scum-QT-product.

  I don't think geists should be given the trust as being such an official town leader. Natirasha is very reactive, and that's really not good when deciding on a very rushed or heated lynch.

  There are no such things as official town leaders. There are leadership vacuums and there are players (usually multiple players in most games) who fill them. And they do that only with the cooperation of the majority of players.

  No shit. Do tell me more about how mafia is played.
  What I was doing was indirectly commenting on the quote that you quoted. Providing my own opinion on why thinking of geists as a town leader is badidea.

  Who did you protect last night?

  You. Because you are an important asset to town.

I hope you have all enjoyed my Radiance.
I hope I have not embarrassed myself by defending scum.

I was amused by this post, and this has the Llmarble quirkiness that I enjoyed in the other game, and the llamarble quirkiness that I had read as town while still having a real nice summary of his thoughts of the game.

[Ms Marangal]

I don't take issue with people scumreading me at this point; if you meant "you're all talk this game therefore you're scum" then that is an okay deduction.

Can we confirm once and for all who MC claimed masons with?
I'm open to a massclaim here; we're clearly already down our two best roles and are going to have to lynch scum today and go it mountainous.

VOTE: Cephrir
For lack of a better way of describing the pattern, he lacks manliness.
Also he has a lot of posts which have "to exist" as a purpose.
And there are lots of little 'yup this is scum's in there.
I actually feel pretty good about this one.

but this is pretty clearly town, and usually I really struggle with reading the less active players because they are... less active, but here is a pretty genuine statement that's pretty hard to make as town.

I also kinda like his reason on Ceph vote even though I don't really agree with it (and it's something I have to revisit at some point, but at current I think Titus is doing that slot, good)

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: MafiaSSK
Even if he turns out to be town he deserves to die for cheese nonsense & "I feel like lurking."
We can add more pages to the thread if for some reason you think that will help town, but putting off a lynch with clear intent to eventually execute it isn't productive.
There are too many possibly wrong assumptions (an NK won't help us figure anything out, SSK is scum) and too much benefit to reducing the number of scum as quickly as possible.

and this is pretty ballsy, if scum because he isn't one of the most active people in this game, and he risks drawing a "You're being a hypocrite" attack regardless of SSK claiming scum


I think I'm done, and I apologize for the spam-posts, but it should be fixed soon when I get my computer back!

[Ms Marangal]

Vig is anti-town.

I have about as much respect for this statement as "Creationism should be taught in schools so students can see both theories."
Vig is more powerful than cop. You can wrongly argue against that and I won't be mad, but "vig is anti-town" is actively irritatingly stupid.

I am trying to dig into this game and find the thread of play, but the rush of motivation has been slow to come. I shall make another attempt tomorrow.

Oh, I like this post and I can definitely sympathize with him here. I'm not really sure what it is (might be conf. town laziness, or something) but I find it hard to read the game, and scum-hunt within it.

[Ms Marangal]

Don't replace me.

[Ms Marangal]

Prohps scum-reads are... weird

IDK if he's trying to do some kinda thing where he tries to scum-read stronger townies to make himself look like a fearless townie.

He might be scum, with his team somewhere in the black!

[Ms Marangal]

Who did Titus replace?

[Ms Marangal]

oh

fuck the world, I don't feel good about their slot at all :/

[Ms Marangal]

@ Gen: RE F-16, no, I don't agree with alot of the things he says and I think that there are alot of things that make me jump and want to call him scum because of how different from me he is. I think that's the main reason why I tunneled him so badly D1, and why I probably would still be doing if Nacho didn't talk me out of it which then forced me to re-read the stuff he wrote later on, which I then deemed to be not as bad as I originally thought it to be

[Ms Marangal]

heh

Sure thing, Gen

SSK
Titus
Prophy
Pie
SAD

that, I feel like is the scum team

herpderp

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: SSK

that said, I'm just about ready for a lynch.

[Ms Marangal]

Man, everyone's slippin today

Uhm, IDK but I'm pretty sure I've stated it somewhere back there? I mostly had a null read on him, and I don't really think I like Proph all that much. in Lieu of all the town-reads I have, I am also pretty sure I can pin it down via PoE

what about Pie do you think is getting better? if anything, I think he is getting worse and, before Cabd left the game, his indecision about Pie (specifically in the way he has him as a maybe town, to maybe scum to unsure) reminds me of how nacho treated you guys in Sixty game

[Ms Marangal]

Man, everyone's slippin today

Uhm, IDK but I'm pretty sure I've stated it somewhere back there? I mostly had a null read on him, and I don't really think I like Proph all that much. in Lieu of all the town-reads I have, I am also pretty sure I can pin it down via PoE

what about Pie do you think is getting better? if anything, I think he is getting worse and, before Cabd left the game, his indecision about Pie (specifically in the way he has him as a maybe town, to maybe scum to unsure) reminds me of how nacho treated you guys in Sixty game

[Ms Marangal]

Man, everyone's slippin today

Uhm, IDK but I'm pretty sure I've stated it somewhere back there? I mostly had a null read on him, and I don't really think I like Proph all that much. in Lieu of all the town-reads I have, I am also pretty sure I can pin it down via PoE

what about Pie do you think is getting better? if anything, I think he is getting worse and, before Cabd left the game, his indecision about Pie (specifically in the way he has him as a maybe town, to maybe scum to unsure) reminds me of how nacho treated you guys in Sixty game

[Ms Marangal]

ohdamn

MOD: can you delete two of those post plz&thnx

[Ms Marangal]

dodge

[Ms Marangal]

I remember that post! <3

also, Sakura needs to stop doing what she's doing. Her interaction with Titus isn't going to help us get anywhere

[Ms Marangal]

other than that, lets just end this day, please.

[Ms Marangal]

My gooooodddddd
this game will never eennddddd
I would like to make a request though!

can we keep this day going until at least the 6th? please, please, pretty please?
we could even make the next scum lynch that day, when I'm drunk and posting and stuff. would be the awesomest Birthday present everrrrrr

and me being drunk could result in that transparency everyone is looking for but never, ever sees in Mara-posts... Maybe

I had a super duper special message to give F-16 that I left in our QT in the event I die, but it looks like I can deliver that message my self. yaaayyyyyy

Titus, you will always scum-read Nero no matter who he plays with, no matter what he does, even though he town as all fuck, you will always be scum-reading him and you are tunneling him for the exact same things (or rather, similar things) you were pushing against us in Venmars game

SO SHUSH FOR A FEW DAYS, OR MAYBE A WEEK AND LET ME DO WHAT I DO PLZ AND THANK YOU

[Ms Marangal]

Thor, you're no fun :/

Could you at least give me time to do stuff, then?

I wouldn't actually mind a SAD, Titus, or Prophy lynch at this point in time, buuttt I do want to be able to make sure to use whatever time I have since, I feel like this is the day where I'll be performing the best

[Ms Marangal]

RC is ok, I gues but I'm more interested in the converged reads amongst my top-townies

I think Proph is probably scum. I looked through Proph-games and saw that he was more active as town. I saw Generic mention the lurking and I wish you hadn't because if we let him be, we could have a larger sample of evidence to develop a read from. By letting him know that you'll be looking for lurking, it makes it easier for him to change that aspect of it.

Assuming Geists die tonight, Pieguyn, Generic, and KBBQ are solidly in my townbloc and I feel that we can agree on reads as well. Other town: GM, Mara, Sakura. Casso is in no man's land. I am thinking probably 5 scum. 4 with a vig seem too little. So, 4 scum from Norl, Titus, SAD, RC, Muffin, Proph.

Still waiting for Nachyllt make-up session. Hopefully it will be entertaining.

Townbloc = people I can bounce reads off of and agree with.
Other townies = all other people that I think are town.

Doesn't have anything to do with strength of my read.

I think that, our to opposing views should mean that the two of us should take into consideration of each other's reads and doing so will result in reads that are that much more stronger, and that much more accurate and, strangely enough your reads aren't to far off of mine. The only two I completely disagree with you on are Pie and generic (generic, in that I feel like he shouldn't be in the solid town-group just yet, but he isn't exactly my top suspect) and, as it stands we pretty much agree on SAD, Proph, and Muffin. I can vibe Titus-scum and RC scum, and while I have a mild town-read on Norl I don't feel like it's enough to upgrade him to where I am putting you, Geists, GM, and Sakura

I kinda feel like RC is policy lynch this game though, and I don't think I really wanna touch him unless we really, really, really have to

[Ms Marangal]

oh, and BBQ is also a top town read

[Ms Marangal]

\

I wouldn't actually mind a SAD, Titus, or Prophy lynch

Switch Prophy with RC and you got yourself a deal.

Or maybe Norl...still not real trusting there. Speak to me of him.

Dunno, I feel like he's town but I don't have any real desire to waste a whole lot of time and energy defending him

[Ms Marangal]

zMuffin, can you join me on Prophy then? Basically, scum have infiltrated the townreads of the masons. I'm damn near sure of it. If we don't band together and show that we've got some kickass contributions, the scum will con the masons into lynching us one by one.

So let's lynch Prophy scum, force the popular crowd who had Prophy as a scum to bus and get ourselves a scumlynch?

if scum is in my top group, who are they? (other than KBBQ?) because, I'm the one who is in control of our group atm.

[Ms Marangal]

RC could be scum who could have convinced his team to do a NK gambit, and use his meta in his favor, in that, he could push a lynch on Generic whom he "Jail-keeped" and not be held accountable for it because that's who he is

[Ms Marangal]

Pie, I'm saying Generic isn't going to push me long and hard consistently like he is. It's not a specific post. Rather, Generic scum needs a mislynch. SAD/Prophy are the major wagons. He throws me out to F-16 who votes and he gets on. Counterwagon.

with the amount of mislynches that had already happened? and with us potentially being the only PR alive? Nah, not really.

[Ms Marangal]

well, this sucks...

VOTE: Titus

Pink is totally the new purple.

actually,

VOTE: Radiant Cowbell

I'd be much comfortable, here.

[Ms Marangal]

None of you know how upset I was last night :/

Why, hello there.

Either way, as I said before I wouldn't put it past Gen to bus like that so at least you stay alive.

Nati agrees that Generic's play after RC's claim doesn't at all preclude a bus. I'd like to hear Mara's thoughts on this, because my gut says look elsewhere today.

a bus is very, very likely, and I think that it may actually be the case here. Generic is, by no means scared of Titus, so I don't know why he would choose him to jailkeep. There probably was some alterior motive here, but the day went way to fast for me to find it.

[Ms Marangal]

Sakura, if you believe I am scum with Prophy, call my "bluff" and help me "bus".

That being said, there is no logical way Generic and I are scum together. If Generic got his lynch through and I was scum it would bone his team. Respond to that or quit pushing me as scum.

I say, that is the kind of WIFOMic bus Generic lives for.

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: Titus

nooppeee

[Ms Marangal]

I do have to admit that Prophy selectively choosing the D1 lynches and pretty much effectively ignoring the fact that that is a few games out of several played here is pretty hillarious and... naive, I guess?

[Ms Marangal]

Here's what we are going to do.

we are going to lynch the following players in the following order

Titus
Pie
Prophy
Zmuffin
Sakura
SAD
Norl
F16
KBBQ
GM/myself
Nacho/thor
Geists


because we can afford to, and it is beneficial for us to force scum to kill the stronger players as early as they can, and still have to deal with stronger players who can sniff scum out later on. We will be getting rid of the weakest links, getting rid of the people scum could easily be using as mislynch bait. we aren't even going to think of lyncing Norl down unless we have to, everyone below him is, what I consider to be, the town block (or, rather should be)

[Ms Marangal]

My vote on RC wasn't because he was scum, anyway. the real reason is [REDACTED]

[Ms Marangal]

MM, Pie is town. After me, lynch Prophy. He is obvscum.

I don't actually care about that right now. If I was lynching scumspects first, SAD and muffin would be a little higher up on the list. right now, I'm more than certain that you are scum, and that the remaining is within (Proph, SAD, and muffin) with an pretty unlikely chance of it being between Sakura and Norl. It obviously isn't a T/S list, otherwise I would suggest lynching us last.

I do like Arthur eviscerating Prophylaxis on his "votal analysis" so that makes me view more favorably. I am not sure if it is just a case of Proph being naive town and Arthur ripping him apart regardless of affiliation. "Votal analysis" is probably the most gimmicky pseudo-scumhunting tools I've seen in a long time.

Mara, why would we lynch you/GM before Casso? Are you combining how town someone is with how good a player is? Walk me through how you made that list.

My list is basically my town block being the last to get lynched and everyone before that rated in terms of scumminess, prospective usefulness to both alignments, and what has happened earlier on in the game.

my list also assumes no kills happen over night, which is unlikely though I am forcing scum to kill stronger players and I want our day play here on out reducing as much noise as we possibly can

why me/GM before Casso, is me assuming that we are alive the day before mylo/lylo and it is me saying that, if that is the case one of us should be lynched

Pedit: pretty much, yeah

[Ms Marangal]

NEWSFLASH

nacho/thor isn't even the biggest pusher on your wagon, and he is the latest vote on your wagon, so I don't see where you are getting the "mindlessly sheeping" sentiment from. FURTHER MORE the people who were calling you scum yesterday weren't following Nacho.

also, I pretty much agree with 6954

me!

maybe, yeah but, it's fine. if you're town, follow my lynch list and we are GUARANTEED to wiiiiinnnn

[Ms Marangal]

pedit: I said to follow my lynch wagon, pie is number two, and it isn't likely that you are gonna get people to support you on him, least not right now

[Ms Marangal]

COME ON SAKURA

[Ms Marangal]

pedit: I said to follow my lynch wagon, pie is number two, and it isn't likely that you are gonna get people to support you on him, least not right now

Yeah but voting for scum makes you feel soooo good.

Winning feels better.

[Ms Marangal]

Nacho, please let me take the lead and follow my list

You owe me for pennepidum <3

[Ms Marangal]

COME ON SAKURA

Come on where.

Go back to Titus

[Ms Marangal]

MM, Pie is town. After me, lynch Prophy. He is obvscum.

I don't actually care about that right now. If I was lynching scumspects first, SAD and muffin would be a little higher up on the list. right now, I'm more than certain that you are scum, and that the remaining is within (Proph, SAD, and muffin) with an pretty unlikely chance of it being between Sakura and Norl. It obviously isn't a T/S list, otherwise I would suggest lynching us last.

I do like Arthur eviscerating Prophylaxis on his "votal analysis" so that makes me view more favorably. I am not sure if it is just a case of Proph being naive town and Arthur ripping him apart regardless of affiliation. "Votal analysis" is probably the most gimmicky pseudo-scumhunting tools I've seen in a long time.

Mara, why would we lynch you/GM before Casso? Are you combining how town someone is with how good a player is? Walk me through how you made that list.

My list is basically my town block being the last to get lynched and everyone before that rated in terms of scumminess, prospective usefulness to both alignments, and what has happened earlier on in the game.

my list also assumes no kills happen over night, which is unlikely though I am forcing scum to kill stronger players and I want our day play here on out reducing as much noise as we possibly can

why me/GM before Casso, is me assuming that we are alive the day before mylo/lylo and it is me saying that, if that is the case one of us should be lynched

Pedit: pretty much, yeah

[Ms Marangal]

My list is basically my town block being the last to get lynched and everyone before that rated in terms of scumminess, prospective usefulness to both alignments, and what has happened earlier on in the game.

my list also assumes no kills happen over night, which is unlikely though

I am forcing scum to kill stronger players

and I want our day play here on out reducing as much noise as we possibly can

why me/GM before Casso, is me assuming that we are alive the day before mylo/lylo and it is me saying that, if that is the case one of us should be lynched

Okay. So, there is barely anyone here who is unskilled or "weaker" than other players save one maybe. Sure, some players are better than others but nearly everyone that is left is a good player capable of winning the game should they get to LYLO. I am taking a guess that the "noise" you are referring to is coming from Titus and Proph.

Scum will obviously nightkill the players that are confirmed through roles first (you, Geists, Goodmorning). Once that is done, I actually have no idea who they might want to take out. Perhaps people that are hard to lynch or players that have accurate reads. The only discretionary kill they made so far was Tammy who is impossible to lynch and potentially accurate in her reads. Are you assuming that by putting Casso at the bottom of the list, scum would nightkill him? If so, why would that be a desirable outcome considering you have a very strong townread on them? I may be misunderstanding the bolded (correct me if I am) but why exactly do you want to force the scum to kill stronger players? Clarify this part.

I chose some pretty strange words...

but, yes. Scum obviously will kill us first, after that, I'm presuming that scum are going to have to kill off stronger players. I'm pretty confident in that we probably don't have any more PR's

as for unskilled and weaker, alot of us are decent players, however alot of people here are easier to lynch, and easier to frame. Sakura, Titus, and Proph all fall under here (and, arguably I would too if I wasn't conf. town)

it's also for this reason to why I don't have Sakura in my town block despite having a good enough town-read on her

and, for forcing scum to kill stronger players, we are lowering the pool of lynchable players and, scum are going to have to try and mislynch them. among these players, there are people who are noted for catching scum AND the "stronger" players are the ones who are more familiar (or would be) with those around them

I am also pretty certain that, at some point, you could die after us which leaves Pie wide open who, if town, has only really survived because you have been defending him all day and that could be gone at any point

[Ms Marangal]

I... hope that makes sense, but I'm kinda tired, so

[Ms Marangal]

Here's what we are going to do.

we are going to lynch the following players in the following order

Titus
Pie
Prophy
Zmuffin
Sakura
SAD
Norl
F16
KBBQ
GM/myself
Nacho/thor
Geists


because we can afford to, and it is beneficial for us to force scum to kill the stronger players as early as they can, and still have to deal with stronger players who can sniff scum out later on. We will be getting rid of the weakest links, getting rid of the people scum could easily be using as mislynch bait. we aren't even going to think of lyncing Norl down unless we have to, everyone below him is, what I consider to be, the town block (or, rather should be)

There are parts of this that I don't like very much.

I'd like to propose a different order, but I don't think it should be hard and fast.

The xenogears town came really close to losing because they didn't scumhunt "below the line". They lynched through that group without a lot of thought.

I'm listening

[Ms Marangal]

You could also take a look at Ceph's mini (A memory of light) Mastins normal (Maniacal streets), Venmars Walking dead, and Quadz Chef.


Pedit: I don't actually have Pie as town, and I don't understand why people are calling him town. I had SAD fairly low, because of the chance that he is town, he

could

be useful after all the conftown are dead

[Ms Marangal]

If you're tired of having to prove your alignment, then you should stop playing mafia because that is a major part of this game. You only had one read right, and it was after RC claimed JK and said the person was Gen

You havn't done anything outside of yelling generic bussing is hurtful to scum (WIFOM) and attempted to call Prophy and Sakura scum (Sakura is not) and you havn't even looked for scum outside of that, so...

I'm tired of town, not working together, town members refusing to work with other town, and town members who have such incredibly high egos and have no clue as to how to tone it down as well as town who will do whatever the fuck they want regardless of what other town say

[Ms Marangal]

"chance that he's town". What is your read of him?

Null-scum

[Ms Marangal]

Town

KBBQ
Casso
F-16
Sakura
Mara
GM

Probtown in order of confidence

Norl
Prophylaxis

Maybe Scum

SAD
Pieguyn
Zmuffin
Prophylaxis

Scum

Titus

[Ms Marangal]

No, she's talking to me.

also, on the prospect of AtE, I'm taking in consideration of who the players are and what I know of them. You (AFAIK) aren't nearly as emotional as Sakura, or even I am and you don't tend to break down easily (and most times, not at all)

You are trying for a town-tell, Sakura likely wasn't but, if push comes to shove, Sakura, F-16, and Casso are the most likely to be scum in my town group. I'm fairly confident that there's scum outside of it, but I was also taking into consideration of Sakura's lynchability vs yours when she's left out there on her own

Pedit: Prophy is null-town

and, I did not say you were the only viable mislynch candidate for generic

[Ms Marangal]

and, if it was fake, what reason do I have now to do such a thing?

[Ms Marangal]

What convo? I've stopped reading his posts since they have gotten obnoxiously long and full of wagon analyses

and no, I don't play on MTGS, but I do believe I have played at least on game with him on this site

[Ms Marangal]

SOrry! I went to go eat something

[Ms Marangal]

I kinda like 7038 as a conclusion to the short convo between you two. It's kinda weird, though and I get the feeling that it isn't something he usually does but, has started doing recently (or fairly recently) based on his answer to your question. I also get the feeling that he feels a little awakward/under interrogation and he doesn't know where you're going but that can come from both alignments easily

that conversation is also evidence that, while he is scum-reading titus, he is looking for evidence that backs up his cause over making something up out of nowhere, which I think is a subtle town-tell that can be applied universally (for the most part)

I also can't really see Scum-scum interaction between him and titus, as well as scum-scum interaction between him and Gen though the latter may be possible. Generic does like to play with his partners as scum (that is where I picked up my habits from) but he is just as likely that he will try and naturally have a scum-read progress on a townie he has targeted for a mislynch (the main difference between me and Gen is that, while sometimes I have jerky reads, his are almost always slowly progressive)

[Ms Marangal]

Why is muffin and Pie in your probtown list, and why is muffin townier than Proph?

[Ms Marangal]

Maybe Scum
SAD
Pieguyn
Zmuffin

if I were to order this, it would be SAD, Muffin/pie with SAD as the stronger scum-read

[Ms Marangal]

Why is muffin and Pie in your probtown list, and why is muffin townier than Proph?

muffin because I liked his analyses the last couple of game days, especially what he's gone back through since generic's flip. Pie in part because F-16 has convinced me. The main thing holding me back from pushing Pie into my town pile is that he keeps going quiet. I have more to base the muffin read on than I do the proph read. Those reads are really close atm though. If I had more experience to judge proph by I might move him higher. In my quick sift through some of his games at MTGS looking for this pattern of racheting up bandwagons I saw that he does this votal analysis frequently. I don't think it's alignment indicative. You do something like that consistently as town and you pretty much have to do it as scum as well.

I don't recall Votal's coming from Proph in that one game I did play with him (but I think I was scum in that game) and, not everyone goes to MTGS to look at meta. I don't think he has a history of doing that here, and if he does he doesn't do it every game so he would have a little bit more leeway on MS thus the votals (regardless of how stupid they may be) is likely to come from town this time around.

I think I can agree with you on muffin, though not pie and moving any of them up would make my town list seem far to big

[Ms Marangal]

yeah, exactly

[Ms Marangal]

Titus, Proph, SAD, and muffin(and maybe Sakura) , so far I think, in terms of reads though I feel like Pere would have been a little bit better if he gave the game the time it deserved instead of being a lurksack which makes me worry about pie quite a bit and how much of a liability he will be in lylo

though, with proph I'm unsure, he seems like he's a tunneler but I feel like he's of the same brand of myself in that, he can control himself and can figure out if/when he is going to far but I'm unsure if he would be willing to drop anything if/when his scum reads where proven to be wrong, and if/when his methods are proven to not work at least 50% of the time, so he should be there as well in that respect

Muffin, I don't feel like he can be very flexible, even if he tries. Proven (I think) by his continued suspicion on Nacho even though we've done all we can to prove his innocence

Titus hasn't really showed any promise in being able to compromise, and do resets when needed if he is town, and her play here isn't anything like I've seen before. She's gotten a little bit more emotional than I can recall, which worries me because those can cloud judgement easily

SAD had been :/ and he hasn't really shown flexibility in his reads so far (other than with generic, but that was when he was conf. scum) and his thoughts seem extremely inflexible in terms of scum dos and don'ts. especially with what he's said today

Nero would be a worry in that department, but I think GIF can keep him from being too tunnely

[Ms Marangal]

I would be worried about GM, too but I think being able to work with her directly helps both of us think things through

[Ms Marangal]

Which is?

[Ms Marangal]

Falcon, you don't understand the pain we all went through watching Pere hammer obv-town nacho giving scum the win

[Ms Marangal]

It was the worst thing ever, and the only thing that was interchangeable between PA and Pere was their alignments

[Ms Marangal]

Can you not be a sarcastic mofo for once?

Can you not just lynch a player around Page 70 or something?
Yes, i can certainly be non-sarcastic, but this game is literally going no where while bloating under its own useless weight. I don't know about you, but by this stage I've read less than half the posts in the game and I'm pretty sure I've still had more and more clearly presented thoughts than most of the other players here. Heck, about a third of us *continue* to be unable to even place votes.

So I don't care. I just really don't. Let's get some flips, get some night actions, and then blow into tomorrow with info and a mountain of back interactions to look at - Day 1 has done all that Day 1 is going to accomplish at this stage. It's actually already done it 2-3 times over, so let's just move on.

And a Nacho/Thor, 2 ppl whom i think would easily pick up scum defending Varsoon then going for last minute bus.

Because...that's *anything* like how I play? Can you show even one example of such play from me?

VOTE: giests

GET OFF THIS DERP VANITY WAGON AND KEEP YOUR VOTE IN PLAY YOU FEEB!

I'll also accept any explanation of what Stuffed did to look more town.
Because otherwise it is beyond fail that you just unvoted.

P-Edit: Nothing. My vote's moving back there eventually but this looks fun.

Do you even lift?

"Yup, my vote is going back where it was, and no reads changed, and this game is 20809237 pages long but...HUUUUUR, random non-pressure, non-reaction, non-point wagon, Ho!!!!!"

@Nacho/Thor: I have never played against Scum Nacho, but i dont remember Nacho ever handing out easy townreads like that, and i'd also expect him to be harsher on the lukers. Thor I was once a partner of his in a scumgame but i replaced in and my predecessor was obvtown so i don't really know whether he'd do that as scum, but I'm not ruling it out.

So...you actually have no idea what our scum play looks like, and (shock) are avancing a theory that doesn't even make sense with how Thor plays scum, and, for that matter, seems to barely grasp how Nacho plays as either alignment.
I don't know why Nacho was voting you earlier but I'll go ahead and endorse it now.

Sarcasm isn't going to help with anything, though

VOTE: F16

You can be town now, just because.
Also, sarcasm can't possibly do worse than the last 210398 pages of "not sarcasm" can it? What will I do, cause a terrible rift, divide town, and prevent them from reaching lynch consensus? Oh no, ANYTHING but that!

Still, I really do like that vote, it's at least game state advancing.

Pedit: why don't you all lynch F-16

Unvote: Stuffed Crust
Vote: F-16

Done.
I don't even have a case on him. I don't care.

Nope. I ain't lynching no one other than SC

Your play here is beyond brilliant.

@Thor: And here i thought you were starting to agree with nacho's vote on me?

I do.

But...if you noticed that I advocated Nacho's read of you, which *suggests* you're reading my posts, then you might (you just might...if you squint) have noticed an *additional* concept I have maybe...y'know, mentioned off-hand once in passing. It goes something like this; I AM WILLING TO LYNCH ANYONE BECAUSE I AM SICK OF THIS GAME, THIS PLAY, AND THIS DAY.

Did you notice that thought? I might be able to round up a quote for you if you haven't - but you should probably advance a really weak slappy-dappy whine post about me not voting you because everyone will buy that as a town reaction and scumhunting.

these posts for a start

Vote: Goodmorning

I think the whole ISO blather is pure town sounding lies.

I like the Geist push but imagine Nacho may want to say something about it to me, and he's being a lurksack right now. And he was supposed to be the posting head here, so...yeah.
As a random note - I refuse to sign anything, if you can't tell the difference between Nacho and me I don't care, read us as a single entity anyway, that's how a hydra works last I checked.

I have FF, Stuffed, and Generic as town.
Reads may adjust as we combine them, or maybe Nacho will sheep me - you'll have to wait and see.

Here's my application to the town block also:

You're allowed to sheep me.
-Casso.

Done!

This? this was a great entrance post from thor, but I'm not reading to much into it.

I wonder if my rants will be as effective with that seal face staring out at everyone.

and this made me LOL

I liked Mara's early push on Cephrir. The target in and of itself isn't really that special, but the way she went about it seemed good to me (mostly the whole gearing up for a push and then completely letting it go part, that felt nice). So generic, if you're getting an early townread on Mara based on her initial posting, we're probably in agreement.

This is a really good post from nacho, It shows his thinking and it was exactly what I was doing. not to mention that, doing that in that point in time kinda cut down on some of the things he could have done later on in the day. He is also prone to being paranoid of me, and has lynched me several times when I was town, and when he was town. He could very easily get a way with it but instead, he continues to defend me as the day goes on.

Specifically I'm seeing parallels with how in Buzzword you jumped on the weakness in orcinus' entrance and encouraged/supported others' reads. At least with orcinus it was a genuinely off entrance. Brian's initial posts almost always look strained and uncomfortable.

I don't think Brian has a tendency to look weak early game. I thought there was clear motivation in F-16s opening to stay alive to sort out Nacho-scum, and I thought that it was strange Brian immediately attacked that, especially considering the mentor mentee game that recently ended which proves F-16 can read me pretty competently.

I thought this was pretty genuine

I liked Mara's early push on Cephrir. The target in and of itself isn't really that special, but the way she went about it seemed good to me (mostly the whole gearing up for a push and then completely letting it go part, that felt nice). So generic, if you're getting an early townread on Mara based on her initial posting, we're probably in agreement.

You actually need mara's posts to read them?

Yes? Cabd forming a town block with himself in the center early game doesn't exactly seem like something that's unlikely to be coming from Cabd-scum. Why do you disagree?

and this was a "Well, yeah. Cabd is being cabd and right now, Mara is prolly the window to reading their slot."

this post just resonated super, duper well with me.

Greetings,

Nacho's desire to get into a hydra with me when I *specifically* discuss about the entire concept of my hopes for a hydra being that someone is the posting head and I just get to spew thoughts into a QT is not really amusing to me at this stage.

He's not even doing a good job expressing my thoughts and outrage, in my opinion. Probably because he's convinced he has to paraphrase from a ruddy Hydra QT - which literally makes no sense, copypasta that gak, Nach!

I see people say they can have trouble reading Nach and then admit I'm in the mix and are wondering about reading me... ::insert noise of a back of throat chuckle mixed with a smirk::

In OTHER news!

Let's hit these strokes which Nacho didn't convey for me due to general suckage;

You can tell Geist Thor thinks his push is silly.

You mentioned Brian no more or less than Tammy or Ceph during your posting catchup. It's skeevy to isolate one and try to paint it as an attempt to push a weak player when;

1. We're voting elsewhere.
2. We are mentioning multiple other players as much or more.
3. I wasn't even aware Brian was the easy mislynch that everyone is frothing about.

Seriously, what is this?
I already think your silly backside is scummy and THIS is your big push on our slot? Color me un-ruddy-impressed.
Get to justifying this gak right now.

I don't like how Tammy is getting into a fight with half a hydra's head, and then the other head is like 'I know what Head 1 is doing, I'mma sit back!' and Tammy just keeps punching as though he said nothing...makes it feel fake to me, like she realizes she's supposed to put on a show and is doing what is expected of her.

She's fake playing to her town meta, is what I'm saying.

I wanna get this one out here too. What was that gak Tammy? WHile we're at it, MC can help further justify it as well since apparently it was a major town read in their mind while looking immensely fake to me.
She even basically calmed down in like thirty seconds. It felt VERY fake.
Justify pl0x!
Links to blow ups that look of similar "Realness" to this one as a counterpoint would be awesome.
I don't recall Tammy ever blowing up like that and then going insta-calm in anything I've seen her in though.

Your seemingly-blank-looking-null read on Casso doesn't help anyone either ♫

Have...you even offered a read on this slot? Y'know, as long as you're complaining others haven't?

it seems really weird considering he hadn't included pitoli in his reads list wall before then.

Um...literally the only list we'd made prior to this was one I made.
And it was a town list.
So...whut?

@Goodmorning - I look forward to hearing all your thoughts from your last iso read, and am prepared to wait a few days/weeks for you to catchup and then do an additional iso read, I bet it will be revealing. I'll admit what I expect to be revealed is that you are scum, but I'm a touch the pessimist at heart.

At this stage of the game I'm bored enough to pretty much vote whomever if other players would just ruddy get their act together enough to actually agree on someone to push. I think THIS SLOT might be the biggest unified push to date, and we have like two votes on us. It's pretty obnoxious.

Some people should vote Pitoli or GM or Geist or BBQ or Tammy or something. I'll be there for you, heck, I'd even yell down Nacho on Tammy and push it to L-1 if it just meant an L-1 would happen prior to page 40 of this game.

@Falcon - sheep me.
@Desp - if you don't wanna read, sheep me.
@KoreanBBQ - I think you look scummy, sheep me.
@Domo - SHEEP!
@MafiaSSK - I have cookies, sheep me.
@Tammy - I have Nachos, sheep me.

Don't make me have to become the active head out of rage and boredom, I'll do it.

This post from Thor was extraordinary, Sure, he can do this as scum but I don't think it's likely. It also shows that they

are

talking about stuff in their QT

Hey thor why don't you talk about what you loved about my opening?

I never said I loved your opening, I said I liked it.
I liked that you came in and attacked and prodded multiple players at a stage of the game people were being lazy and slow in getting things moving.
I also said I liked that Falcon attacked you for it, so don't start sending me any candy hearts anytime soon.

Why would you think this? I might not be right, but I'm getting reads from my interactions with people. My reads are developing all the time and as such I feel like I'm doing the opposite of fail. That's not to say my reads are right, I'm saying I'm happy with my progress. If you're not, tough luck.

I never suggested your reads were good/bad/indifferent so don't get bent out of shape for something I didn't say.
I *did* suggest it was uncool to derail as soon as it appeared some actual momentum shift and vote movement, because looking at that vote count this game desperately needs a serious wagon and a serious counter about twenty posts ago.

I'm not though, because I think I'm actually quite satisfied with my play right now despite the slow starting.

You have barely managed to present reads on a thirty page game while being snarky at others having the same issue. I can't imagine it should surprise you that people have issues with that.

This is a "I liked your post, I never said I loved it"

slight hydra-miscom which is more likely to come from a town hydra over a scum one. (I think Nacho had relayed it as Thor loving Cabd's opening)

Laptop died and I'm posting on a crappy netbook so this is not going to be as detailed as I'd otherwise make it.

At the time when Nati and I first started to feel suspicious of Nacho it was for a bunch of reasons, none of which was really a clincher but together make a constellation that we feel is trouble.

We don't like how he apparently missed a ton of crumbs

We don't like how he seems to be currying favor with players rather than sorting them

We don't like the pitoli vote and especially don't like its timing. It came off like he was trying to deflect attention after we first went after him.

We don't like how he tried to push the non-aggression pact on us.

We don't like the whole tone of the exchange with Brian. The whole tone of that sounded off.

And we found Thor's posts pretty damn close to null content.

And finally, we don't like that when we asked him what he thought about SSK, he said that he was thinking about moving his vote there if Thor agrees. That was off for two reasons: the assumption that we were scumreading, not trying to sort SSK, and because he deferred the decision waiting for a catch up. That's not something he typically does as a hydra.

-I am picking up on less crumbs than I normally would because iPad. I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

-I am currently considering going back to the Pitoli vote. The timing coincided more with my entrance in thread than your suspicion of me, though.

-Why not? The only advantage it offers me as scum is the towncred. I offered it originally because I thought Cabd would appreciate the gesture, but he apparently didn't get it.

-don't understand where tone was off there.

-I thought Nati was scumreading SSK and I was pretty ready to move forward on that. I'm no better at sorting him than ffery is and so thought the method of approach to him this game was to leave him in Nati hands. You are correct that I usually don't wait to sync up as a hydra. Thor is not my usual hydra partner; my usual hydra partner is someone like you or GiF who can see why I'm thinking what I'm thinking and doesn't diverge on my most basic of reads. There are other hydrate where i take primary control and thus don't differ much from my usual play. Then there are hydrate like Majiffy where our approaches differ in a way where my play needs to change significantly. With him, I tend to exert my personality over his since my reads are superior to his, hence Vegito and ridiculous aggression. With Thor, the biggest thing I want this hydra to give me is a greater understanding of him and for him to understand these pieces of our meta a little more. I don't think playing in the usual way will help me with that, and am much more comfortable with waiting for him than I am not waiting for him.

I kinda like this, Nacho sounds annoyed in general. this can go either way, but I think this was coming from a town mindset of "I don't have a comp, leave me alone" Kinda deal (though prolly not quite like that)

Tammy's a little more Meh-read now. She was God-town earlier, but holding a grudge on an attack that I had made earlier and not understanding where my paranoia of her is coming from is a little weird. The emotions were, and still are town as Smurf though and isn't something that isn't easily replicated as scum even by me and my ability to replicate most, if not all of my major town-tells is something I have alot of pride over.

Serious question; do you think and/or have ever seen Tammy fake emotions as scum? Because Nacho is acting like that's writ in the stars, and you seem flakey on it, so one of you is talking out your backside as far as the read goes. So whassup with this? She is either emotive and thus gawd town, or she is emotive and able to fake it in which case I'd like one of the meta crowd to slap Nacho in the face with a rolled up newspaper.

-snip-

I liked this section of the post as it, yet again shows that they are talking, and not only talking, but scum-hunting withing their QT. this post shows that they are debating reads, and that they are actually trying to find some kind of common ground

Are you going to tunnel Mara now? You did say earlier that you were going to tunnel of hell her.

Are you going to tunnel Mara now? You did say earlier that you were going to tunnel of hell her.

Why are you so keen to get me fighting with mara?

Because usually you become obvtown when you fight with Mara.
I see no reason why you wouldn't engage her if you thought she was scum, which I thought you believed before.

When I ask you if you're going to tunnel Mara, you say that I'm setting you up a 1v1 between you and Mara.
When you are left to your own devices, you call Mara scum pretty fucking quickly.
What?

These three post sequence show Nacho not really understanding Generic, and wanting to understand what he's doing over jumping right away. he wants us to fight because it leads to one (or both) of us obvtowning ourselves which makes things a hellofalot easier for him.

the third was him being confused because he didn't expect generic to be defensive (or something?) on the fight, and didn't really understand where Generic was going with his read on me, or what he was going to do with it.

the third post is genuine confusion

I'm probably going to pass out now. I might not be able to post again until Monday, don't be sad.

The seal wagon is not a bad wagon at all. (Yes, Bert, in hard boiled I realized for sure nacho was scum for unnatural sorting of me, but it was mostly based on something I would have expected town him to pick up on about town me. I'm not so sure muffin is as easy to sort as I am, and it seemed really clear to me that nacho was maneuvering around who was obvtown to the crowd and creating noise that I didn't think he would create.)

(Speaking of Nacho, maraca's crap "gambit" had nothing to do with pushing me to look obvtown and if you are somehow town you're looking at that far too simplistically. Mara betrayed her underhanded motivations when she said she didn't push me as hard as she planned. You don't "plan" to push people for reactions as town, not in the beginning of the game. And not in the fashion as she did, unless you're a complete amateur, so if you and she will admit she has no clue whatsoever that she's doing in this game I'll think of stepping back, but in order to gauge reactions on someone you have to know them...you have to know what to push...you have to know some way of reading them. Anyone with a modicum of understanding of m game wouldn't have needed to do that. And her push was not in any way shape or form one to figure out my alignment, it was purely to piss me off, purely to discredit me. That is 100% evident by the ensuing days, so you comparing it to hard boiled is flawed because the motivation was not the same or even close.)

You're probably scum though so :/

I'm still not voting stuff crust because bar soon amused me.

Not voting muffin.

Surprised Sakura isn't a thing.

Would probs go back to voting BBQ, but meh.

Let's lynch maraca though!!!

Maras scumgames are interesting because they look pretty different from one another and are hard to peg down in most explanations of meta. They differ so strongly I think because Mara plays mostly from the heart as scum (like I've been doing recently), and she wouldn't lead out the planned emotional manipulation effort to discredit you. Cabd could plan it lately, but that's where Hard Boiled comes into play again: it was a poignant as hell experience where Cabd and I were basically wondering what the fuck we did to deserve an attack against of us that held that ridiculous tendency and laughed because we were both good scum players but we realized deep deep down we were completely and supremely fucked. I cannot see Cabd being so idiotic or suicidal to endorse or suggest a plan that went down that horror road ever again. I can see Mara making a weird push on you as town.

this especially made me smile because, this came before the mason claim and he could have very easily left this alone. he didn't, and it also shows that he actually has a understanding of where I come from when I play scum and he could have used this as a reason to scum-read me this game, but he didn't. he calls me town, and tries to get tammy to back off ( who I think is someone he thinks is town) and is trying to keep town from fighting amongst each other which is town as all fuck.

But falcon, lynching a lurker/useless one gives us little to no info to work off

The only information lynching strong town gives us is that we're a bunch of idiots, which is not something I'm prepared to learn so early in the game.

Pedit: why don't you all lynch F-16

Unvote: Stuffed Crust
Vote: F-16

Done.
I don't even have a case on him. I don't care.

Right, so have you played f16 before?

5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon Townish.

Looking at some things that I am not allowed to admit exist, I would just like to clarify that I really like the idea of Pie getting lynched.

What the fuck is this?

Are you sure as heck that Falcon and Ffery are town

I am.
I'm also sure as heck that Stuffed Crust is town and the two top wagons suck quite a bit. Do you want to move your vote Sakura with us so the Day 1 lynch doesn't suck?

note - vote is still on f16

Why are you spending time now just tunneling Sakura?

Why now, why not earlier on during my stay here

P-edit: ok...

So do I have your vote yet?

note - yes, still

I was hoping that I would be able to attract more votes than Tammy's, but with ffery and Bert liable to join soon we can make this at least as big as the F-16 wagon.

Mac, please don't stop posting.

VOTE: Sakura Hana

And finally he shifts, and showing an awareness that he's been on f16 for so long.

What the fuck is this?

DOMO if Nati says no on SSK.

Oh yeah he tried to talk town into panic lynching me while I was on V/LA. No case, just higher chance of scum in a group containing me and SAD. And this was after I said lynching him on d1 was a huge mistake because it's nachothor. This is the same hydra that said earlier he hates lynching strong town players early. And they're happy to pick me off without me being able to claim or defend myself, because of a random unsubstanciated read.

I'm convinced he's scum.

You do realize that

1: Nacho and Thor are two different people in that hydra
2: Nacho has been hard defending f-16 and the only reason their vote was on him was because Thor had put it there
3: Nacho didn't wanna move the vote without finding a common ground, first and F-16 wasn't in danger of getting lynched at the point of where the wagon was sitting in that state
4:Hydra diss. is a real thing

These didn't just come out of nowhere

and, along with these cases (which I never, ever do) I've been pretty clearly been defending them even when Cabd and GM had both disagreed. How did you miss these, muffin?

[Ms Marangal]

Thor, you've never minded policy lynches before, why start now? :/

[Ms Marangal]

Nacho is helluva bored or indifferent with the gamestate right now.

yeah, I can't imagine why

If you've read the thread, you would see that my lynch on Titus is a mix between a scum-read and a policy lynch

[Ms Marangal]

These didn't just come out of nowhere

and, along with these cases (which I never, ever do) I've been pretty clearly been defending them even when Cabd and GM had both disagreed. How did you miss these, muffin?

i am aware you've been defending them, i just don't recall ever reading a case outlining why they're town. the first and third quote walls you just posted, for example, are

not

reasons to think they're town. the second quote wall is about as close to a town case on them as i've seen (i don't even remember you writing it, and it was apparently written 160+ pages ago so that could have something to do with it). i'm looking at it now and wondering how you came to the conclusions you seem to have come to based on the stuff you were actually quoting. it's probably a huge waste of time, but if you want me to break it down and explain exactly why i disagree with your assessment there i can

I'll give you the first, but the third is more a case to get everyone else thinking

and yeah, it's probably a waste of time and better used if/when nacho/thor ever gets on the chopping block, I'm still alive for whatever reason, and stuff of the like

[Ms Marangal]

Here's a fun exercise:
Marangal, report to us the important points discussed in your mason-daytalk-thing with a view to demonstrating its existence by bringing up things you'd have had a hard time thinking up now etc etc.

NachoNachoNacho

and more Nacho

I havn't actually utilized the day-talk option as much as I should have, GM and cabd did though and, at some point though I did have some nighttime discussion.

we havn't really talked at all today, though I don't understand why you're bringing this up, though considering we already have a flipped encryptor

[Ms Marangal]

TBQH, pie you've been power lurking like hell this game, only being reactive which is pretty... I dunno, accurate on SAD's part

[Ms Marangal]

I have been in a hydra. I don't expect mindmeld but they hardly seem to be communicating at all. There are more effective strategies, double voting null/scumreads to get faster pressure and reactions.

Hydra dissonance tends to trigger a scumread because that should be sorted out for the most part.

Uhm... You've played with Sugar Cain before. I'm not really the type to discuss every single point made by my "partner" and the fact that we are disagree'ing (yes, we disagree on alot of things) shouldn't be that much of a surprise to you considering Cain is one of my most dissonant hydra's to date. and? we were town in said game

[Ms Marangal]

You want us to do math?

HAHAHAHAHAno

though, I do like the personal question that someone here knows that GM doesn't. seems legit

[Ms Marangal]

I don't remember our password D:

I have it as auto-login

[Ms Marangal]

I'll wait to see if Ffery come up with something better than a password check, though

[Ms Marangal]

inb4 they've been doing the neighbor->mason gambit

after the last few neighborhoods we've both been apart in?

[Ms Marangal]

More the games

Vi's game that was neighborhood galore
mastins game
Fakegods game where I was a scum-neighbor
and Sixty's Pinnipedum game

[Ms Marangal]

HOLY SHIT I AM HERE

[Ms Marangal]

YES I AM

[Ms Marangal]

I'll be here allll night

[Ms Marangal]

FFERY HURRY UP WITH THE QUESTION

[Ms Marangal]

I think she died :/

[Ms Marangal]

I am still here

[Ms Marangal]

and GM isn't responding at all :/

[Ms Marangal]

OH ANSWER TO THE FIRST QUESTION IS INTERESTING IF YOU'LL STILL TAKE IT

[Ms Marangal]

I don't owe you anything
What do you think of my Cephrir townread? If you want me to even consider lynching Titus, there's a giant stumbling block you'll have to overcome because that's the read I've invested the most time and brainpower into forming and it's become the type of read that's going to have to be pried from my cold, dead fingers.

Butbutbut

I am trying to forget that Titus=Ceph because Ceph was pretty damn town :/

[Ms Marangal]

I am also working under Worst case scenario and the fact that I won't be here for to long

[Ms Marangal]

ughhhh....

UNVOTE:

[Ms Marangal]

I think pieguy could possibly be scum and would be massively reassured if he popped up in thread and started doing a bunch of ridiculously townie things again.

I never understood what exactly he's done that was incredibly townie

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: SAD

[Ms Marangal]

Outside of the interactions with Generic, Titus was townish and I still think Ceph was townish, and not at all likely to be coming from a scumslot no matter how much I want to do a policy lynch at this point

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: SAD

Mara that's a bad vote.

You wound me too

Nothing you've done has made me think otherwise.

[Ms Marangal]

Guys I'm gonna let you in on a little secret.

It's muffin/pieguy.

this is kinda weird though.

[Ms Marangal]

but then, I'm in a really weird place where I think everyone is town and this game can't be this easy to solve, so

[Ms Marangal]

Norl
Pie
SAD
Muffin

we lynch through this list of players, in no particular order, and this game should be done. If it isn't, there shouldn't be no more than one scum left, and this list

KBBQ
Proph
Titus
Sakura
Casso

should contain that last scum, assuming they are all alive at that point

[Ms Marangal]

Generic tends to bus, for the most part though I'm finding that his play here is way different from where we both started and where I watched what he did and attempted to incorporate into my play but, I shouldn't be to surprised about that because of the environmental differences. Where we started, everyone knew each other, and was able to meta-read players super easily, him included so if he kept on mislynching players, it would have been noticed. Here, he can get away with mislynches players because of the lack of familiarity and he has been doing so as town, anyway AFAIK

He still has that tendency to bus, but I don't think it's as hardcore as I'm used to seeing and the best way to get those partner interactions with him is through forcing him through interactions which, frankly I didn't really get to do through the first couple day phase. I was going to work through doing it yesterday, but stuff happened before I even got the chance to

[Ms Marangal]

One was a policy lynch list and the other is a scumlynch list. Guess which is which!

hint: I've stated it many times in this thread who I thought was scum and that one of the list isn't reflective of that, go and find it!

VOTE: Pie

[Ms Marangal]

I got distracted D:

[Ms Marangal]

you both still around?

[Ms Marangal]

sweet!

[Ms Marangal]

DBK

[Ms Marangal]

I was gonna say Divagreen until I got an answer though, hehe

[Ms Marangal]

annndd.. I'm off to bed, night

[Ms Marangal]

Not Impossible. It isn't something I have seen him do before, I think but I have learned to change my scum-play a little in how I interact with buddies so that, it can't be detected most of the time (EG my interaction with Fonz in Empires mini normal) and with the knowledge that Generic does have a stronger scum-play than I do, even in the buddy interaction department, I'm not going to write off Pie as town based on him sucking up to him.

also, Comparing his interaction with Pie to his interaction with myself, Nacho/thor, and Tammy it's nothing like the latter three. He has sucked up to Tammy and myself, but the tone he used with us was more friendly than apologetic

[Ms Marangal]

also (going off memory) he reacted differently when questioned on his read on me and Tammy compared to his read on Pie. It was more defensive, I think

[Ms Marangal]

F-16, who from my list of scum would you mind lynching?

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: SAD

[Ms Marangal]

I still don't understand why you think he's scum

[Ms Marangal]

I am feeling all kinds of paranoia atm

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: muffin

[Ms Marangal]

I am feeling all kinds of paranoia atm

Elaborate?

a major one stems from the fact that, the more I think about my prosective team, the less sense it makes

another one is based on the fact that I kinda liked sads last post of reads especially since no one had to ask for it

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Muffin

[Ms Marangal]

Oh and I call you "they" because I always thought you were female till recently when I actually read the gender area but kinda still think you're female so call you they instead of having to go through the trouble of reminding myself

10/10

[Ms Marangal]

Norl
Pie
SAD
Muffin

we lynch through this list of players, in no particular order, and this game should be done. If it isn't, there shouldn't be no more than one scum left, and this list

KBBQ
Proph
Titus
Sakura
Casso

should contain that last scum, assuming they are all alive at that point

Placing this, here to remind myself of stuff

[Ms Marangal]

would be nice to know what those lines and dashes mean

[Ms Marangal]

Please do it soon

anywho

V/LA till monday

[Ms Marangal]

Norl
Pie
SAD
Sakura

we lynch through this list of players, in no particular order, and this game should be done. If it isn't, there shouldn't be no more than one scum left, and this list

KBBQ
Proph
Titus
Casso
F-16

should contain that last scum, assuming they are all alive at that point

Placing this, here to remind myself of stuff

List fixed, though Sakura is probably my most shiftiest read

VOTE: SAD

[Ms Marangal]

though, I think I might want Norl a little bit more, but his interaction with scum (I think it was muffin) looked kinda weird

[Ms Marangal]

Why are we both still alive?

whywhywhywhywhy

Nacho, plz don't be scum. I need a rock.

and yes, we did confirm our daytalk, FFery asked a question that would have taken more than a few minutes to find the answer to, and I had correctly provided it.

[Ms Marangal]

uhh, prod recieved?

[Ms Marangal]

So I lost a post to rollbacks, though I didn't say much, just that I think Prophy is prob town, and Norl interactions doesn't seem like ones that would come from a scum-buddy to a scum-buddy.

I'm seriously loosing my grip on the town-reads I had on Sakura and Nacho though the Sakura one is worse off. I also don't see the consistent scum hunting coming from pi that Prophy see's so...

SAD reads likely scum as well so, in short

Mara/GM

Nero/GIF
Norl
Proph

Sakura
Casso

SAD

Pie

[Ms Marangal]

V/LA for a week

I want to see a case compiled for KBBQ because Early game really did feel like town-Nero, and mid-game, and some of late-game too though I'm not really conviced enough to want to defend him as I had done in Mastins game

[Ms Marangal]

Yeah, I want to see a case too, if anyone feels strongly enough about KBBQ!scum. Again, I don't think he's scum.

Wow, this game is so dead that people are going V/LA for a week? (I'm rather unenthused for this gamestate as well, so no blame there)

this game isn't why I'm going V/LA, I'm V/LA site wide

anywho, I don't see anything incriminating on your points of casso

[Ms Marangal]

Unfortunately, I don't see a reason to why pie is town in that wall post.

Nacho

: I think we need to talk, think you'll be around tomorrow afternoon? give me a time, and I'll be on

[Ms Marangal]

and I would do that, but I'm having serious doubts over my reads atm and a little chat with nacho should get it fixed.

[Ms Marangal]

Nacho?

Outside of SAD, who do you think could be scum? why? if, for w/e reason, SAD ends up to be town, who do you think would be left as a viable suspect? (SAD you to I guess)

I've looked over the game and alot of the interactions nacho had with me aren't ones I've seen him do as scum. and, as far as I am concerned, the only reason Im freaking out right now is due to paranoia.

the way he cased the falcon read would be pretty creative way for him tp do as scum, and he could have ignored the way I was going after titus regardless of my town read on ceph, because I don't think that anyone would have cared much a about it but he defended her and he has done it in a way where, it wasn't anything close to wk'ing. the positioning and when he came out to defend her is something that isn't that hard to do as scum in a vacuum, but the timing of it is pretty much perfect. Despite not having loads of time, nacho has put in alto of work into this game (and it was more work than SAD did imo) and the workche puts in seems pretty genuine and thought out and not contrived.

VOTE: SAD

L-1

[Ms Marangal]

nothing casso has done has had scum-motivation, though. not as far as I can tell, and I have re-read through Nacho/thor interactions over, and over,and over again because both GM and Cabd (when he was around) had suspicions on him and I really, really can't find anything that's scummy.

RE: effort and Sheeping, I'm not equating walls with effort, I'm equating content given as effort and even I have to admit that I see more effort to figure out who is and isn't scum coming from Pie than I see coming from SAD and I've admitted that I thought Norl was putting in effort from even before he made walls, so that accusation is baseless. I've never been one to just blindly sheep, and I'm not going to start now. I have been pinning SAD as scum and I'm pretty sure I've stated as much so the second accusation is, as well

[Ms Marangal]

i've lost my town read on kbbq a longoing time ago and unlike casso, I've not been able to get that read back. ill happily sheep norl on his kbbq read

[Ms Marangal]

D1 was, yes but your ability to stay town throughout this game isn't all that great. I'm thinking Sakura/KBBQ atm

[Ms Marangal]

I've never been sure, but null-town?

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: KBBQ

thought I already had mine up there

[Ms Marangal]

ehh...

Kinda weird that he hasn't mentioned Nacho's sakura read, though it doesn't really seem like the reads nacho is putting out here is the same as the ones in the qt so, iunno.

[Ms Marangal]

I'll state my thoughts when I get home but Nacho never had sakura as scum. He's had her as town the entire game wo you saying nacho has a sum read on sak and your sweeping it is weird

[Ms Marangal]

prodded

[Ms Marangal]

god... wtf does nacho become super-town everytime I start doubting my read on their slot

[Ms Marangal]

God... why do I want to lynch Pie everytime he talks..

so, you think Sakura is still town?

and Nero/GIF?

[Ms Marangal]

Why so you think 5 scum over 4? I am finding it pretty difficult to find two scum via associations among living players. I have been operating on one remaining scum for that reason.

[Ms Marangal]

rhouht there was a maf. doc flip?

and, I dont really agree Vig isnt that powerful a role, especially when it serves to be a miller as well. encryptor is somewhat powerful, but... and, if the game is mostly vt/goon, the jk is rendered pretty much useless and ( I think) the mass claim has proven as such alomg with tje dead townsmen

[Ms Marangal]

also, depending on the powers empire gave the JOAT, it can be an extemely powerful role

[Ms Marangal]

id also like it if you could answer my question on sak. I am confused as to where you stand on her and why

[Ms Marangal]

everyone is town

except for pie, goddammit

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: prophy

[Ms Marangal]

dodge

[Ms Marangal]

The thing with me this game is that Nacho driving a lynch on me and then stopping it was like a big hell of a towntell for me.
Also in Marketplace, Nati and I weren't going all out on Night Kills every single night for no reason, there was never support on a Garuda lynch so we wanted to kill him with a night kill =/

Nacho held my hand all game, and every argument he had with me was to get me to back down on whoever I was reading as scum