Mini 1404 - Monopoly Mafia - Game Over

[SafetyDance]

Hi all, I'm still reading through all the posts from day 1 and I'm about a third of the way through but it's slow going so I may appear inactive for a couple of days as I get through it, I'm a pretty slow forum-reader especially when trying to analyse.

I'm perfectly capable of spelling the word 'you' too, if you were wondering.

[SafetyDance]

I was about half way through this thread then went back to re-read the first few pages after the n1 kills were announced and BS + UN flipped. Now I've also read the last two pages before the lynch so I found out that Lurker slipped and found the post with a bit of digging.

So I'm going to put some thoughts down on the original Lurker wagon whilst it's all fresh because I'm horrible at note taking and remembering things so I want it posted, then I can come back and see if I feel any different. Apologies if its stuff already covered.

L-1 wagon was:

Agent_Ireland (unvoted 1st (after claim))
Jal (unvoted 3rd)
Xisiqomelir (unvoted 4th)
Lord Mhork
Mogadishu Jones (unvoted 2nd)
StrangerCoug (CheeryDog)

Jake also labelled Lurker scum but didn't put his vote there until scum slip was caught.
Mogadishu was actually on the wagon, off the wagon, on the wagon then off after claim.

There were two people I see as against the wagon or at least the people on it and that's baby spice and mehdi. UN at the end sounds like he tunnelling jal hard and she was the person that spotted the scum tell.

That leaves mehdi as only one that was against it or negative about it still alive whereas all six on the original wagon are alive. That's too conienant at the moment because all I've got so far I see mehdi as annoying town, not scum. I'm not sure it's the reason for both scum kills but I think one killed one of the two dead townies because they were bussing lurker and removing someone that was on the original wagon means they lose part of their crowd that they're hiding in.

I don't think its Jal, she found and mentioned the slip, Jones/TBG was on and off the lynch erratically which I think is obv town. Which pairs AI/Xis up as those that got off the wagon, potentially off their partner and LM/SC as those not wanting to get off, potentially to gain cred if partner was lynched and they were seen on it all along. Jake, not putting a vote on a scum read is a tell for scum not wanting to buss their partner early on, so I'm considering him in the list.

I'd like to find the killer in the pack to lynch today and at the moment I'd say my strongest reads to the scum side out of those 7 would be AI, Xis and Jake.

Something else, it took 30 hours,18 for scum slip to be noticed by someone who posted, in that time those who posted where jal, baby, xis, tehbrawl, mehdi, UN, jake

[SafetyDance]

I'm not answering for what Robert wrote, I can't. Understand I can't stop you from making reads about the slot though.

Correction, I was specifically asked my thoughts of mhork v lurker by mehndi and said if I had to pick one it would be lurker. Get your facts straight

They are, thanks. You mentioned you'd join lurkers wagon but you never did. I'm not ignoring that mention from any pre-scumslip wagon analysis.

The point about noticing the scum slip, its Probably because nobody fully read that wall of text.

Scum could have read the walls and ignored it. If there's a SK then they'd want it ignored too so they can get rid of obv maf night one themselves.

I'm sure people may have missed things but I don't understand why in a game where reading = hunting you would not be reading everything.

Medhi, what are your thoughts on Xis?

Xis I don't suspect currently.

Safety if you can find one game where scum have killed based on voting records and not voting intent or many other rreaspns night 1 I'll consider the theory, but I've never seen kills for that basis (and mafia didn't kill both spice and un since mafia vigs are very powerful and very unlikely to exist).

I did mention I didn't expect both kills were for the same reason but the possibility of one of them. I'm trying to understand the reason behind why sucm chose them (and yes, its with limited knowledge atm, I haven't read everything) and all the people on the initial wagon are still alive. I want to find out why. My view that since the lynch was a formality because of the slip, you can't read too much into the actual lynch-wagon whereas the original wagon pre-claim is more valid.

Mafia Vigs may be too powerful but what about maf getting a one-shot from a card? Do we even know for sure its not a 3 maf team + vig?

I was unsure whether to reveal this but considering it doesn't reveal my role sure, I also got a chance that gave me a 1 shot doc. I can reveal who it was on, but the main point is chance/community chest cards can give other role powers beyond things like a vote.

Who was it on?

[SafetyDance]

Mafia getting a vig shot is very rare. I think there's only been one or two mafia vigs in 13ps for the history of this site.

I mainly think that robert's choice to vote jal twice makes him pretty likely town. As scum double voting is fairly useful and to put it on someone that no one wanted to vote as well I don't think is likely for him.

So it's possible?

What a waste the double-vote was. Suppose that's the luck of it. Was a bit pointless it ending up on an inactive and on such an obvious lynch.

You didn't respond to the last bit of #968 btw.

[SafetyDance]

Tbg was the person I chose. I considered jal but I was expecting UN alive and assumed jal might be kept alive by scum to have un keep on fosing her.

Possible yes. Done in about 1 percent of games on site this size also yes.

Ah ok. Well your electricity bill says otherwise. You stayed at home last night. No reason for VT to lie.

VOTE: Mehdi2277

[SafetyDance]

Possible yes. Done in about 1 percent of games on site this size also yes.

Ah ok. Well your electricity bill says otherwise. You stayed at home last night. No reason for VT to lie.

VOTE: Mehdi2277

Is this a claim to have picked up the Electricity company?
This confirms that dead player's card are randomly redistributed amongst surviving players then.[/quote]

Yes, I got the Electricity company card during the night that Lurker claimed he had. I tracked Mehdi and he did nothing.

Which I thought was a waste until he claimed to visit someone.

[SafetyDance]

Stupid tags, sorry don't know what when wrong.

Also just got a CC pm. Received $100 thanks to an XMAS fund.

Pedit: so you are lying? Fine. And you know there is a roleblocker? That is good to know too.

[SafetyDance]

It is now Day 2.

~SafetyDance replaces Robert2424~

So you did a night action while your slot was empty?

I replaced in during the night, GNR gave me the role pm and all the cards were in it.

Why don't you ask him?

[SafetyDance]

You mentioned it.

[SafetyDance]

PEdit - yeah:

I mentioned an rb as an unlikely possibility on you and that became I knew there was an rb.

A roleblock could possibly have been on you though.

To add, you still brought up roleblocking. It was at the forefront of your mind. You didn't even try to claim you yourself was rb'ed.

[SafetyDance]

Anyways the bigger point to address mhork is me vs safety.

I have to pick? Why?

You both are sketch, but I was reading town on you. I do not see, though, why the use of a chance card wouldn't count as a visit. Nor do I see why you would even try to lie about taking an action when you didn't take one. That makes no real sense to me and I see no scum motivation. I wanna hear what the mod's ruling is before I consider voting you.

I'm a little confused, though, why he has the Electric Company. The mechanic of randomly redistributing properties after death doesn't really make sense to me, though, because that seems to go against the spirit of the 'screw your neighbor' flavor Monopoly. His push on you looks town motivated too though, 'cept for the whole having that card part.

A thought, maybe the cards get distributed among the faction responsible for a death? Would that make any sense? Random just seems too swingy and illogical. >.<

You'll note I had a town read of mehdi before #947 too.

I have the EC card. It wasn't one of the original ones sent to Robert. I don't know how it was distributed but I have it and used it on Mehdi.

The result was Mehdi didn't do anything n1, so he's not one of the killers. Still, there's no reason to lie. Mehdi didn't send in the kill, so he's not alone which means a 3-maf team at least.

[SafetyDance]

And I had not read the game fully at that point and wasn't putting anyone at l-1. If I wasn't asked by mehndi I probably wouldn't have had an opinion on either at that time.

But SC's l-1 for no reason but sheeping definitely was odd, especially since it came right after I voted him. Bus makes sense because I could easily be accused of starting a counter.

I will say i too have some info but not sure what to do with it. Hopefully some discussion will help me figure it out if the info I have is helpful or not.

P.edit - huh?

Can we have that info now?

[SafetyDance]

And xis scum motive to claim 1 shot doc who saved no one is?

That doesn't exist either.

@SafetyDance

: What is a general description of your result's format? Is it something like "Visited: X" or "Did not visit"?

That I decided to do the action against the player mentioned but didn't see anything.

[SafetyDance]

Why would my slot be roleblocked?

[SafetyDance]

Hi all, I'm still reading through all the posts from day 1 and I'm about a third of the way through but it's slow going so I may appear inactive for a couple of days as I get through it, I'm a pretty slow forum-reader especially when trying to analyse.

I'm perfectly capable of spelling the word 'you' too, if you were wondering.

Why did you decide to track Medhi?

There was less than a day left of night and from what I read early on he was the one I thought was looking most scummy. Almost had it on UN, glad I didn't now.

[SafetyDance]

Whilst we're wondering, looking at the cards I have, I think they are far too powerful if they're all like this and town has actual role alignments and pr as well. If we do have this much power then I think in balance scum could have something big up their sleeves too, like a double night kill.

[SafetyDance]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4632789#p4632789]post 1046 [/url], Mehdi2277"][quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4632555#p4632555]post 1021[/url], SafetyDance"]You'll note I had a town read of mehdi before #947 too.[/quote]
When did I become townie after being most scummy?[/quote]

It's not too hard to follow.

During night: Scummy read
After NA: Town read
After #947: Scum

[SafetyDance]

P. edit cool, you tracked UN and didn't visit anyone ekse right?

I visited someone else with a different power (although as far as I tell it's currently useless).
UN didn't visit anybody.

What power and whom?

[SafetyDance]

That makes sense.

I'm V/LA for <24hrs>48hours if someone has questions for me and wondering why I'm not responding.

[SafetyDance]

@ safety - 2 questions

Did you got your night action PM before the day started?

also question regarding your report, you claim your action said you didn't "see anything" but that is completely different than "no result" or "didn't go anywhere" don't you think?

I am also curious how you got your extra card at night, but Xis claimed to get an extra card during the start of the day. It doesn't add up personally.

1.) Think about this. Why would I get to do night actions

after

the day started? I joined the game, got my role pm during the night phase, and did my night actions before the day started.

It seems like you're presuming some serious bastard-modding happening from GNR to let me replace in during the day and still do night actions. You'll have to get clarification from him personally as to if this is the true and why he posted I replaced in at the start of the day (

@mod, your cue...

).

2.) GNR was vague (purposefully?) in his reply. I think you can read it both ways. Didn't see anything could equal didn't see Mehdi go anywhere is/was my line of thought rather than no result. If CheeryDog is telling the truth and got the same message with the waterworks on UN who was definitely townie and can't have possibly gone anywhere, then I think that yes, that's further proof that message means that person didn't do anything, which counters what Mehdi is saying. Unless you're of the opinion that both CD and I were roleblocked. I can't even imagine the odds on that.

3.) Did you notice Jal also claimed getting a new card? It's pretty safe to say now that dead people's cards get redistributed to the living players, to whom and by means is unknown to us. Who died before the night? Who also claimed to have the card I now possess. Now put two and two together...

[SafetyDance]

I meant did you get your result before the day started

No.

[SafetyDance]

Either a. I was role blocked or b. safety is scum or I am are the only two options that have decent chances of being true.

And VOTE: AI. Partly just sheeping tbg and partly that guille's last post puts him a bit less of a lynch desire as AI right now.

You're not entertaining the theory that CD could be trying to put two townies against each other by supporting one side?

[SafetyDance]

And that same scum miller got nominated for a scummy. Kind of means something and if you want an opinion of a non townie who read the game I commented and said sala played pretty great. Policy lynching millers is a bad idea if you don't care much about their play.

I'll check the cards I got later, but I've gotten 2 already (one was at night and the other I mentioned during the day before).

Where did gnr mention the kills like that in the OP?

I think this needs to be clarified. How'd you get a card at night? Lurker's two cards have been claimed.

[SafetyDance]

With Cheery backing me up claiming you got roleblocked is really the only town move you have isn't it? Cross-vote was still your first defence back when I called your visit a lie.

[SafetyDance]

Also, I think we need to be perfectly clear when claiming cards.

Deed Cards = properties
Special Cards = chance or community chest

For instance myself/rob: 2 deed cards at start of game, 1 community chest during day giving double vote. One deed card at night and then another CC card with money today. (nothing here is anything that hasn't been claimed in previous posts).

The way I see the role setup at the moment is:

1st level - normal game roles and abilities
2nd level - power roles/actions gained by deed card (randomly and regardless of your alignment/role?)
3rd level - temporary/one-shot actions that can be gained from special cards.

Does this point to role madness? It seems to point to a lot of roles that we can get in the game. It will be interesting afterwards to see how it was all balanced out. Must've taken ages to set up.

With the deed cards from previous players, do we know everything that's been claimed?

Lurker's properties have gone to guille and I
Baby/UN have gone to Jal and Monkey.

Was there anyone else claiming new cards? As Jal mentioned there should be at least two more.

[SafetyDance]

Aside from the Mehdi stuff, I think the Agent_Ireland/Monkey slot is looking scummy too. It's one of the slots I found in my early reads was giving a scummy read after the initial lurker wagon.

Just look at his ISO and his first 8 post.

Post #8.... RVS vote on scum
Post #226 Dodge
Post #291 "A lot has happened but I'm not going to post anything". Keeps RVS vote on lurker with no reason given
Post #299 card speculation
Post #306 ditto
Post #309 quick unvote after lurker's claim
Post #319 request for prod
Post #333 lurker is now town

Looks like a bus to me. He was lurking, not giving a lot of information himself about anything yet was active enough to request other to be prodded. He was very quiet during the entire day. When Lurker went to L-2 he was the only vote on it without a valid reason or giving any actual reason at all but he was one of the first off it and in his next post gave him as a town read.

It's hard for Monkey to answer any of that (I dont think he can) but it doesn't change AI's play.

P-EDIT: @Mehdi As Scum? Probably defecating in my pants. I dont really want to imagine that too hard.

[SafetyDance]

Whilst I'm imagining, I have the mental image of your avatar as scum laughing its head off as town spends hours going through your 200+ posts trying to find a breadcrumb.

P-edit again: @mehdi

[SafetyDance]

the problem I have with all of this is the fact that Safety claimed he got his tracker ability from the card he got from lurker, lurker already claimed it was a watcher and later switched and said it was a tracker, the fact that now SD is claiming he got that same card and in deed it has a tracker ability, I am not buying it for a second.

I believe CD that he visited jal, I find it hard to believe a mod would let a person perform 2 actions but I have to assume he's telling the truth about visiting CD. 2 tracker claims plus my role doesn't make sense as all being town sided so if I had to guess I'd say SD is scum over CD

the only problem I have is I don't trust mehndi one bit, so I am down with lynching him, but if he flips town I think it pretty much confirms SD as scum.

SO i'd rather lynch SD first because I don't buy 2 tracker claims but if I can't get an SD lynch, I will gladly take a mehndi lynch.

As for Monkey, I have no clue what to make of him, my gut wants to say he is scum but I will give him a chance to see if he can communicate his reads better and also see how he explains the question I asked him.

p.edit - this mock lynch is the stupidest thing I ever heard

Firstly, I think you're either being purposely dense or you're not understanding everything.

About my tracker claim - I'm not claiming I'm a tracker, I'm claiming I have a deed card that gives me the tracker ability.

Now, I read through the Lurker stuff recently so it may be fresh to me but I can't believe you don't know what he claimed, since it was the biggest event day one. He claimed his EC card was a watcher then slipped saying it tracker. If my slot got the EC card last night and it is a tracker, how can I be lying? Are you trying to claim by process of elimination that the EC

was

a watcher?

You also seem to be forgetting that CD backed up what I said I got in the role pm. How can I fake that then, being the first person to mention it? He is also saying he has the other utility and that it gives the same ability. Doesn't that make any sense to you?

You're the third or fourth person (jal, mehdi, cd, jake) now to soft-claim a PR role. You're right town could appear too strong, which is why if you were reading before, you'd notice I came up with the same thoughts, scum must be powerful or have some strong ability to counter all this,

I can't say I'm confident mehdi is 100% scum, all I know for sure is that he didn't do anything last night when he claimed to moonlight as a doc.

Speaking up isn't really beneficial for my survivability either. If mehdi is scum I'm still not likely to survive the night anymore than if he is town and there's a vig.

I'd like to know how, other than gross misrep of the situation, you can think I come out of this with anything but a town-motive.

[SafetyDance]

that's just it, he fake claimed watcher and later claimed it to be tracker so that means that he never had either ability, aka it's fake aka you don't have the tracker ability imo

what are you referring to about your role PM that CD backed up, I don't recall seeing this, can you link me to what you are talking about.

and as for the fact that you came out with your info meaning it's only town motivated, that may work for someone naive to automatically assume that but I have seen scum volunteer info like that before. Look at what happend, everyone has claimed. In fact you were the one asking people to reveal their info aka role fishing.

I am also not going to assume that both water works and electric company are both the same ability nor am I going to assume that they both are town roles. I absolutely don't believe anything associated with the electric company since lurker obviously lied about what ability it has.

Careful who you're calling dolt. From my end its you.

Interesting that you're calling Jal and CheerDog naive, I'm sure they appreciate it. I asked CD to backup what he said and he did (after your prodding, mind, which is interesting), you'd note that from my response to his claim. You kept hinting that you did stuff at night. You don't hint shit unless you're going to claim it. What do you expect? People to give you a free pass because you

might

have something pro-town. Yeah, just trust everyone because of what they might have. Put your cards on the table so to speak. I find it annoying that we have 4 soft-claims for a town aligned pr yet no one is revealing anything about what it is. I'm calling bullshit and it would be a lot simpler if it ended up being mehdi. Also, if I didn't come out with the info I have on mehdi we'd have gotten no where with anything.

There is nothing that CD claimed after me with the same role and result that I didn't mention before. If you don't think we both tracked and one of us is lying then you'd have to presume its him because he's copied/agreed with my claim. I don't want you to lynch CD either, I'm just trying to show there's no way I can be scum for claiming tracker with CD claiming the same thing. I'd have had to have known his role and result before hand. I'm not omnipresent.

I got a card which says Electric Company and I can track with it. Lurker claimed the same thing in his slip (a scum slip after all is the truth coming out right?). Since the Easter Bunny isn't in this game and Lurker is dead then yes, I'm going to believe its come from him. You should try coming up with an alternative theory if you think its wrong.

You can't really respond now to the end which defeats the purpose of reply I guess, but anyway, good luck with your surgery.

[SafetyDance]

Actually, just realised I can confirm (the remote chance) I wasn't roleblocked last night.

I was going to avoid this but since CD did claim who he visited I'm going claim another card role with a successful result because it doesn't really matter for me at the moment. I don't care, I caught mehdi potentially lying and if he's scum then it should be an easy win for town. I already had a target on my back for other scum during the night if true anyway.

I believe CD that he visited jal, I find it hard to believe a mod would let a person perform 2 actions but I have to assume he's telling the truth about visiting CD.

Aside from the fact that the mod did say you can perform 2 night actions, I can confirm it because 1) I did it myself and 2) so did Cheery. I did try to hint a bit I had more power in my cards and had checked CD:

Whilst we're wondering,

looking at the cards I have

, I think they are far too powerful if they're all like this and town has actual role alignments and pr as well. If we do have this much power then I think in balance scum could have something big up their sleeves too, like a double night kill.

That makes sense.

I'm V/LA for <24hrs>48hours if someone has questions for me and wondering why I'm not responding.

One of my original cards is a purple. Mediterranean Avenue and it allows me the Watcher ability.

So CD can't be a killer because Jal is still present. He hasn't (fmpov) lied with anything he said, even when it would have been easier to do so, or not say anything at all. With mehdi's rb'ed claim there's now no chance Cheery could be a scum roleblocker himself so I can't see him being anything but town too.

[SafetyDance]

Sorry, I thought I made it clear. You know when you do something late and you're tired? I omitted the bit where I said I watched Jal.

Second last paragraph should read:

One of my original cards is a purple. Mediterranean Avenue and it allows me the Watcher ability. I chose to watch Jal because she was the one who found the scum slip

[SafetyDance]

Robert/safety

: I've labeled as scummy for mostly 181. 980: It makes me wonder, that would mean that he received that card from Lurker. Lurker had two cards. I received one of them. He lied about the electric being a tracker. but he then admitted to being scum rather than saying that he misread.

If someone else received a card at the end of the day other than Safety, then Safety had the Electric card prior Lurker being lynched.

Oh yeah because if anyone else had the EC they would have kept it quiet? #980 was days ago, even the lurkers have read it by now, I would be getting rope burn around my neck right about now if there was another counter claim. This is funny too, anyone could claim they got the railway card, your claim of getting Lurker's card AFTER my claim of getting one of them, actually backs up my claim. You realise you could be counter-claimed too?

You and jake seem to have difficulty grasping things too. I'm going to give your intelligence the benefit of the doubt and say at least one of you is (or was in jake's case) is being obtuse on purpose. So I've noted that.

You are implying way too many things. You're implying that the tracker-slip wasn't the truth after lying about it being the tracker. You're implying the watcher was the true claim? You're implying that CD is lying too in his Utility claim and night result.

Also, you can't get mod to confirm night actions, absurd.

[SafetyDance]

unvote: safety

But I have a question for safety, if you saw cd visit Jal, why didn't you react weirdly when he claimed to track UN?

[SafetyDance]

Ignore 1182, sorry.

unvote: safety

But I have a question for safety, if you saw cd visit Jal, why didn't you react weirdly when he claimed to track UN?

Because unlike you I know you can do more than one thing at night? And you dont consider pushing him to claim what else he did as suspicion? My strategy with CD was the same with Mehdi.

I think so since my power has an obvious way to get upgraded (in fact

lurkers one card Mediterranean power

is more useful then my two oranges together).

It was never Lurker's, I have made no such claim.

[SafetyDance]

Well since I have told everyone I have it, yeah I guess it won't hurt. The other one I used on Jal.

That makes sense.

I'm V/LA for <24hrs>48hours if someone has questions for me and wondering why I'm not responding.

[SafetyDance]

Are we going play the entire game speaking in hints? The more important thing is do you think cheery is lying and why?

Safety/cheery what do you think of me right now?

You're one of the people speaking in hints. Right now I see yourself, Jal, CD, Jake as having hinted at information and having withheld all or some of it.

Anyway, were getting some counter-claims which is good.

On Cheery, his behaviour hasn't given any indication of it and he's told the truth when as scum he could just have easily said anything else (or nothing at all) but yeah there is the chance that CD could be a role cop or role blocker or some other scum-motivated role. I just don't see it as likely.

Mind you as I mentioned before, I'm not any town power-aligned role, we know they were decided before cards (as per Monopoly preview) so there's at least two tier or power available which suggests mafia have something up their sleeves to compensate. If town and scum can get same power from deeds then having power from cards is not a town tell and I think the deeds pr roles are neutral and the scum have power roles as well as anything from cards.

[SafetyDance]

Let's have fun.

At the beginning of this day I received a vig card.

property deed or from a special card?

[SafetyDance]

New pages suck. So what is it then Jal, is it a property that's normally on a Monopoly board or are you claiming its something completely different?

I'm wondering if kills don't exactly mean cards get redistributed

We definitely know they do for lynches

[SafetyDance]

Oh wait, hah, I was reading the card wrong. It's a deed.

THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU PLAY THE CANADIAN FORM OF MONOPOLY MOST.

It should be a classic Monopoly board, I don't even know if Med Ave is Park Lane or Mayfair.

[SafetyDance]

Oh what the hell, its one of the first properties. Whitechapel and Old Kent are brown coloured, wtf.

[SafetyDance]

@Mod: Ok, what version of Monopoloy are we playing?

I'm seeing google images that are purple but all the wiki layouts are brown.

[SafetyDance]

Is it on the board that is pictured in the OP? (which annoys me with the house placement every time I look at it, but I doubt those have any point)

I think we've had 3 claims of picking up cards at the start of today.

Ah, well going to have to bookmark that picture then I think. I didn't even notice the colour difference in the first two properties.

[SafetyDance]

Is it on the board that is pictured in the OP? (which annoys me with the house placement every time I look at it, but I doubt those have any point)

I think we've had 3 claims of picking up cards at the start of today.

2 claims? I can only remember Jal and Monkey. Jake was claiming he did something last night iirc but not that he got a new card.

[SafetyDance]

Guille's claim was for the railroad, got that at day's end/night not at the start of the new day.

Edit: ah thanks CD.

So that's 3/4 accounted for. Not that it's any indication of alignment

[SafetyDance]

Lurkers Cards: SD, guille
Baby/UN: CD,Jal,Monkey,???

[SafetyDance]

It's confusing as it is without colours being mixed up.

Jal, backtracking what do you make of my Watcher situation and what do you think we can do going forward?

[SafetyDance]

Only visitor I got in my message

[SafetyDance]

Also it would take balls of WIFOM to admit to visiting UN without the knowledge that I knew he visited you as well.

[SafetyDance]

Exactly, balls of wifom for scum to admit that.

But he backed up my result when he didn't have to and he mentioned he visited you when he didn't have to. It would be far simpler for scum to not say anything.

Because I don't doubt for a second there's lurking scum here holding up their cards and enjoying the conversation whilst working how has what etc

[SafetyDance]

if I were the SK I probably would have left Uber alive so he could hunt down the scummies for me as I sat back on my town cred, rejoiced, and killed town at night and seriously scum hunted during the day. But if cards of the same deck are similar of power and Uber or Baby didn't kill last night, then we probably have two vigs at the very least. By the way, I just realized that the card doesn't specify the type of killing action, but I still don't see why scum would kill Baby Spice.

I feel like I should be voting Medhi for Safety not seeing him go anywhere last night

but everything keeps else keeps telling me no bleh.

At least one person has claimed to not have any powers at any sort of time. Hmm.

I'm feeling bleh about this game right now.

To be honest, everything else for me is saying the same thing, I just have that contradictive night report to his claim. At the moment fmpov, even if there are better scum suspects I see it a bad thing to just let mehdi as potential scum get into night where the recipe for disaster will be higher.

But given the 2 purples are watcher cards, it's possible that the 2 utility cards have the same ability.

Finally.

Not sure what to think of CD's deed counter claim. I'm not sure if its worse than a no-kill, lying, one-shot doc but it does seem a strange role. I guess it's value would be higher if they got to the end game? I also thought your power CD came from your alignment, not your cards, so does this mean there's no town pr roles before cards? At least with three different people claiming now, someone should get through the night clear.

I disagree that a Vig killed during the night because none of the lurkers are dead. That doesn't seem very pro-town to me.

[SafetyDance]

I like that topic Jal linked too. I'm actually surprised myself how much aversion there is to trying to find out why someone died during the night.

If Jal did get a Vig card today then yes its weird because it poses the question of why did UN or BS kill the other one when the person they were arguing the most with is Jal, who just so happens to have gotten the card today?

Also, Cheery, did you think Jal claiming she didn't have 2 cards meant she was claiming only one and not three? If your power only lets you check that someone has 2 or more, isn't it useless? We know everyone has at least 2.

Pedit: CD, Mehdi has claimed he breadcrumbed a role somewhere in his 200+ posts. I also doubt Mafia wouldn't be allowed to night kill. That seems too bastardy.

[SafetyDance]

Just as well he came back too. That affirmation that mock-lynching is a bad idea has really helped us. *fistpump*

Cheery, getting power roles solely from cards changes the game, if that's what everything is pointing to now. At least from my perspective, my figuring out was based on what I said in Post #1133. You'd have to wipe off that 1st level of roles. We'd all be just VT or Goon and any abilities come from cards, which to me makes maf look too weak.

[SafetyDance]

Vig kill night one is totally randomly. Sure after a scum lynch you more or less have a free shot to aim at whom you will but without any knowledge the pro-town move is to aim at a lurker to limit the passengers coasting through a day and I can't see any vig-related reason for UN or BS to be vigged by anyone other than Jal who has claimed to only have the card today and doesn't strike me as a crime-of-passion type player anyway.

Still if we only get powers from cards, then it could just as well be a scum-vig who killed. Do we know what set the Vig card came from? There could be 2 more of them in the game.

EDIT: Jal, but he could be just a goon like Lurker sans any power cards

[SafetyDance]

Why is there a giant wagon on mehdi? 0.o

People like to follow roles blindly without scumhunting or using any logic.

(see: policy lynching millers)

I found two guys who haven't read a thing this day! Ignorance slip *hi5*

I got boardwalk, it gives me the vigilante power to kill one player each night. I just got this today so I haven't used it yet

.

You're going to have to explain this. A lot better. Today as in 01/17/13 or today as in this current day this mafia game is on?

[SafetyDance]

Tonally Town, content post-early D1 is Town,

1-shot Doc claim is Town

. Tracker result is weird, but I'm chalking it up to a roleblocker.

Ya rly?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4348301

[SafetyDance]

This is annoying. If it wasn't for Mehdi's night action claim then I would totally be up for lynching between Monkey and Jal right now. There's gotta be some bad claims in amongst this and I think this one takes it. AI's play from the start was bad too.

Anyway, there's no rush to hammer, not that I'm adverse to get a lynch out of the way before a deadline, but we need to discuss everything and all permeations because I don't doubt that all tracker/watcher claims are going to get out of the night alive, or at the least not roleblocked so we need to be prepared and make sure we're at least set up so that if anything happens we can catch it. At least take this up coming weekend to discuss everything, I have plenty of thoughts I need to put down and working out to go through as well.

Hang on, so is it actually possible the mafia has no killing roles? Is that balanced?

Seriously, where have you been for the last day of play? You're one of the lurkers or coasters here but your reads have looked pro-town, especially on Lurker early on but now you're either claiming stupidity or feigning ignorance. Massive game-play change.

[SafetyDance]

This is...crazy.

Will need that mod clarification please

.

I'm trying to work it out and if Monkey is claiming his slot got a card during the night (after lynch) of once the day started because then that's 3 cards being claimed from lurker who definitely didn't have a vig card because he'd have been saying the same stuff Monkey is now, not trying to claim watcher.

We had assumed before that his claim of getting a new card was during the day, he made no mention of anything then , will have to back track to confirm what was said because it's largely confusing.

Ignoring Monkey's vig claim and looking at Jal then:

If Cheery was telling the truth, because UN didn't visit anyone last night that would mean the card came from Baby who killed UN. So the million dollar question then is why?

Monkey and Jal may have both received vig cards after the day which would mean Baby/UN could have vigged kill the other but I do not think it means that the only way to kill in this game is through the cards. Mafia losing their night kill on top of all the cards town can get it too extreme in my eyes. Mafia need something more to balance it in their favour, not more imbalance.

It's a bit disappointing at the moment we've had no counter-claiming despite the large amount of claims that's happened.

[SafetyDance]

~Yes. When MonkeyMan replaced in, I sent him the same PM that I sent Agent_Ireland at the start of the game. Only later did I forget to send in the PM that contained the extra card the slot recieved

at the start of the day phase

~

That clarifies that up. It

was

at the start of the day, so based on claims we know that all three dead had only 2 cards each.

TBG and CD have as of yet, claimed if those cards have contained any power (leave that for now) but we have Jal and Monkey both claiming to have gotten vig cards. This means that, presuming Baby or UN didn't have both cards, they'd have had one each. If scum killed like they do every game, it means one didn't shoot and one did. Using Cheery Dog's tracking of UN, he didn't go anywhere so that would mean Baby killed UN and UN didn't shoot, whilst scum killed Baby.

That's the scenario I see based on the claims ("facts") we have. Anything wrong with it?

So what questions it leads to is why Baby would have killed UN, why UN didn't shoot anyone (especially after his tunnelling of someone) and why would Baby be a target for scum.

As for not giving scum targets to kill? FFS, we've got 2 watchers, 2 trackers, 2 vigs out in the open, what more could they want?

[SafetyDance]

@SafetyDance

:

TBG and CD have as of yet, claimed if those cards have contained any power (leave that for now) but we have Jal and Monkey both claiming to have gotten vig cards. This means that, presuming Baby or UN didn't have both cards, they'd have had one each. If scum killed like they do every game, it means one didn't shoot and one did. Using Cheery Dog's tracking of UN, he didn't go anywhere so that would mean Baby killed UN and UN didn't shoot, whilst scum killed Baby.

That's the scenario I see based on the claims ("facts") we have.

Anything wrong with it?

Plenty.

1. You assume that there is only one scum faction.
2. You assume at least one town vig used their power.
3. You assume that there was no role interference by either scum denial or town protective.

Assuming that the expensive properties actually do give vig powers (this I consider true) I still think that most likely neither vig shot, the SK killed UN and mafia (or only very slightly possibly, a vig) killed Baby Spice.

You forgot one. I'm also assuming everyone is telling the truth.

You seem to be assuming your guess on what exactly? I'm at least looking at everything we have and trying to make a theory out of it, not apply my own theory to the current circumstances.

We have two claimed vig cards with the town who ended dead last night but you think its more likely that a standard SK (with no power from cards) killed rather than two of the people who held the cards? I think you're the one assuming a lot here. A vig can't have killed Baby Spice unless you're claiming Cheer Dog is lying.

We could sit here until next Christmas thinking about who got roleblocked or re-directed but if you know anything by an educated or more on whom it may have been, say so and explain how it breaks down the chain of events.

[SafetyDance]

Spoiler: Lord Mhork quote

This is annoying. If it wasn't for Mehdi's night action claim then I would totally be up for lynching between Monkey and Jal right now. There's gotta be some bad claims in amongst this and I think this one takes it. AI's play from the start was bad too.

Anyway, there's no rush to hammer, not that I'm adverse to get a lynch out of the way before a deadline, but we need to discuss everything and all permeations because I don't doubt that all tracker/watcher claims are going to get out of the night alive, or at the least not roleblocked so we need to be prepared and make sure we're at least set up so that if anything happens we can catch it. At least take this up coming weekend to discuss everything, I have plenty of thoughts I need to put down and working out to go through as well.

Hang on, so is it actually possible the mafia has no killing roles? Is that balanced?

Seriously, where have you been for the last day of play? You're one of the lurkers or coasters here but your reads have looked pro-town, especially on Lurker early on but now you're either claiming stupidity or feigning ignorance. Massive game-play change.

I'm not feigning ignorance. We now have two deaths and two people claiming Vig cards along with seemingly everyone agreeing that killing is tied to the roles. Does this mean that scum has no kills? Just a factional kill? Could one of the Vig claims really be scum? (such as monkey)

Also, if mafia gets a factional kill, does that mean someone was blocked? Someone no shot? What happened?

Sorry I'm not dominating the game.

I am reading along, though. Closely.

There's just little for me to really comment on.

@that dude who said cheery's intent to hammer was scum risk:
Why?

(sorry for being short. I'm on my phone. >.<)

The problem is this:

Why is there a giant wagon on mehdi? 0.o

There is no valid reason why you would not know why there is a wagon on Mehdi. In fact it directly contradicts with the statement in red. If you were reading closely, even whilst not being able to post a lot you would know. In fact it would be hard not to, discussion goes on for several pages.

So either its stupidity, ignorance, or you're scum. And TBG backing you up looks terrible too.

Tonally Town, content post-early D1 is Town,

1-shot Doc claim is Town

. Tracker result is weird, but I'm chalking it up to a roleblocker.

Ya rly?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4348301

I don't have any context for that, though. Under what circumstances did he claim, and so on?

You're being purposely dense. You don't need any context, you just need to know that it was a recent game where an x-shot doc was claimed and it was by scum....and that town got off wagon after the claim.

***
I can't see why everyone seems to be comfortable letting Mehdi off and into the night so easily at the expense of Monkey. I can't see how his play is so scummy it outweighs Mehdi making a claim that contradicts what I saw at night.

I'd rather know one way or the other if he is town, then guessing at someone else. The cons for letting a potential scum go into the night are too big imo.

[SafetyDance]

Any reason you're trying to bring the mock-lynch back into favour Jal? Only person before that wanted it was Mehdi.

At the moment I'd say cross-kill each other, vig claims are always dodgy.

I agree with Jake though, why don't you trust your own reads? How is knowing what others want going to help town in anyway?

[SafetyDance]

I'm also assuming everyone is telling the truth.

But Mehdi is lying about using the doctor card?

Can always start thinking you're lying about not killing UN if you'd prefer it.

At the moment I'd say cross-kill each other, vig claims are always dodgy.

And then risk both vigs cards possibly fall into scum hands? or for more people to end up claiming receiving said cards only to do the same tomorrow night?

UNVOTE:

What says the cards aren't already in scum hands?

I already answered this one.

I already made it clear who I think is scum and who I'll probably kill.

I want to mainly know who people think is scum and should be shot.

How is town not sharing elementary crap going to hurt town, exactly? No one is willing to share crap all, and I seriously would not be surprised that at least one of the few who has shared their reads on anything concerning this is scum.

No one has said they don't want to share, they dont want to mock-lynch. There's a difference between asking people to mock-lynch and asking them to discuss reads.

If you've already made up your mind then there is no reason why you'd need to know who others think should be shot.

[SafetyDance]

Intent to Hammer

~ 24-36hours

Would prefer Mehdi but it seems everyone's ignoring it for some reason.

Monkey's play is not helpful to Town right now and he's slot was scummy before he took it over. It's gone on long enough.

Despite the need to put his khakis back on, I've seen jake in a ménage a trois with two other townies bickering for 2 days and he still managed to win lylo for town so there's hope for him yet. I don't see anything redeemable in Monkey's play.

Only problem I see is if he does flip town we're going to have at least a 2/9 chance that his vig card falls into the lap of scum for another night kill. With two vig cards a SK looks unlikely so if vig kills get through then there will be 6 town left day 3, if there's 2 scum (with a vig card) it could end up mylo.

Vig's should definitely kill Mehdi if the Monkey lynch gets through. There's no way he should be alive without a flip to reveal whether he was lying or not.

I'm going to backtrack now to address some other points but we also need to decide what to do with the tracker/watcher cards. Should we work out a system so we can protect ourselves and be sure of getting to day 3 or carte blanche with it all?

[SafetyDance]

Bear with me, I'm reading through these tables and info now but I want to understand it all and its hard with this headache I have atm. There are still some things I want to address before any hammer. Should be around evening, Eastern Time

Monkey, if you are town, would be nice to know what other cards you have, even if there's no power in them, so we know what to look out for when people claim.

[SafetyDance]

Lots of posts incoming, I've used spoiler tags where remembered so hopefully it is all neat and at least easy-ish to read.

[SafetyDance]

Interesting pre-script to this is that this is where your vote is now, but responding mainly because I'd like to say a few things about it.

Do you not understand how vastly different they are?

One is (if I understand correctly) someone claiming X-shot Doc as thier role under lynch pressure.

The other is someone claiming an already used 1-shot Doc as a gained ability under absolutely no pressure.

Context is

huge.

I don't understand why you want to blindly trust role info (which we have mod confimation may have been fucked with) instead of lynching off of scumhunting.

I trust absolutely what info I have, not anyone elses. I see a massive contradiction to what I have seen at night, I am going to bring that up. That

is

scumhunting. Mehdi's claim is still dodgy, "with context".

Look at what we have in card claims:
2 Trackers, from both utilities. No counter-claims in roles or deeds
2 Watchers, both from purples. No counter-claims in roles or deeds
2 Vigs, both from dark-blues. No counter-claims in roles or deeds
1 Deed-counter from light-blue(green?). No counter-claims
1 unspecified power role from 2 oranges. No counter-claims

2 cards back into circulation at night, both claimed. 4 cards back in circulation during the day. All claimed. No counter-claims here.

Looking at all that and what is the most dodgy? What stands out as the softest claim?

Now before all this, we have the claim of a one-shot doc card being used. I'm not going to try and understand if maf, why he would try to claim it, but it's a claim that means relatively nothing in the scheme of things and if he had no prior knowledge of what roles are out there with the cards (as evidenced by #947), a claim that couldn't really be proved, except for the "misfortune" of being tracked. As to what gain, who's to say otherwise that if left uncontested the overall view of him would be pro-town, especially as he looks like he tried to save someone?

There's also a few things about his overall play too.

If Mehdi was roleblocked (or re-directed, or bussed etc), and it was by someone town, why would they not come out and claim so?

He's also claiming to have breadcrumbed a PR yet not quoting it or mentioning it again despite having been at L-1.

And I still think something like this is a problem:

Spoiler: Post #1127

And that same scum miller got nominated for a scummy. Kind of means something and if you want an opinion of a non townie who read the game I commented and said sala played pretty great. Policy lynching millers is a bad idea if you don't care much about their play.

I'll check the cards I got later, but I've gotten 2 already (one was at night and the other I mentioned during the day before).

Where did gnr mention the kills like that in the OP?

I think this needs to be clarified. How'd you get a card at night? Lurker's two cards have been claimed.

It's been clarified already. It's referring to the chance card that was a get out of jail safe card. The other being I got money during the day yesterday (I think inherited 100 dollars)

Because if you used a card's action at night, why would you need to go back and check it the day after, especially when you've supposedly used it up. Doesn't sit right.

So I think it all adds up to something that needs clarification which I don't see happening without a flip. Unless you think I'm lying which, presuming since that's where your vote lies and you consider me important enough to watch, doesn't seem to be the case.

[SafetyDance]

Looking back, I'm seeing a problem with Mhork's play in general now.

Spoiler: Post #1080

Sounds exactly the same as I got with waterworks on UberNinja, so I disagree.

Got with waterworks on UberNinja?

Mhork, you know, we were just in a game together where determining who did what kill was actually an important feature on D2 as Sword both A) suspected you as scum and called out 2/3s of the scum team whereas the vig who killed Triton.. well, triton had nada. So why are you putting suspecion onto me for determining what the night kills mean? That is scummy fucking shit right there.

Waiting out to see how the effects of either being role blocked would be. but one sec

I'd say it's not 'scummy fucking shit.' Often there's no point in trying to figure out what kills mean 'cause it's a mess of WIFOM. Also I wasn't even putting suspicion on you. It was a legitimate question. Your paranoid defense against it is noted, though.

And with the Mehdi thing, does this mean that he was roleblocked? Or am I misunderstanding something?

Also hi, guille!
Here's to a quick catch up.

I was surprised to see he was asking for clarification even back here as to what's going on in relation to Mehdi, he gets responses too.

Spoiler: Post #1369

Why is there a giant wagon on mehdi? 0.o

Then there's this post claiming further ignorance.

Spoiler: Post #1457

What brawly said... That's sketch as all hell, mehdi.

Now Mehdi is acting sketchy...

Spoiler: Post #1672

Rereading Xis made me remember why I liked him for town. Vigging him would be stupid and a waste. Guille and safety should get vigged. Or maybe Cheery...or Jake... I don't really have solid town reads on any of them. Pretty sure there's scum in that bunch. I just know that Mehdi prolly shouldn't be shot, or Jal unless Monkey flips town, or Xis, or Brawly. I'm, like, 86% these guys are town.

Then there's this horrible post which sums up everything wrong with his play. Mehdi is somehow now an absolute pro-town read and someone who shouldn't be shot, he openly wants myself to be vigged (not realising what cards I have?). It flies in the face of everything that's been discussed this day and I can only imagine he's suggesting it because I've called him out for being ignorant, which this post clearly shows.

So either he's being anti-town not paying enough attention or he's scummy because he's not really caring what happens during the day (as long as he's not a target).

[SafetyDance]

You seem to be assuming your guess on what exactly?

That generally on this site, scum and vigs use guns and serial killers use knives. Also, that GNR in particular is a mod who pays close attention when designing kill flavour.

Using outside game info is fine but you can't ignore what is layed out in front of us now and the information we have at the moment points to the most likely outcome being Baby vigkilling UN and UN being the mafia kill.

Unless Cheery is lying.

There's also thie pearler to consider, if you're trying to meta GNR:

Spoiler: Post #910

Why are we even factoring in flavor? That's just a recipe for disaster.

This is exactly correct. I've been in several of GNR's themed games and every time people try to outguess his flavor and it never works.

I'll reread tomorrow and post more then.

I'm at least looking at everything we have and trying to make a theory out of it, not apply my own theory to the current circumstances.

We have two claimed vig cards with the town who ended dead last night but you think its more likely that a standard SK (with no power from cards) killed rather than two of the people who held the cards? I think you're the one assuming a lot here.

I don't believe I stated that an SK would be cardless. Where do you get that from?

I didn't mean you said they didn't have deed cards at all, cardless as in getting their alignment before deeds were handed out and kill not from a card but from their alignment. Which would be the only way a SK would be in the game. Maf with a vig card would just be a Scum Vigilante.

[SafetyDance]

going over all the people who are suspicious of baby and I saw something pretty interesting. If anyone has free time look over number's posts about baby and see if anyone else notices the same red flags that I just noticed. There are some pretty glaring red flags in my opinion.

I didn't see anything. Actually, after reading his iso early on, I'm surprised you wouldn't come to the same conclusions as Xis did in #1475 when reading his iso yourself. It's the main reason Xis' has slid a notch towards town in my eyes.
Care to explain this further what you mean?

But given the 2 purples are watcher cards, it's possible that the 2 utility cards have the same ability.

Can we have your night-info now?

[SafetyDance]

Now on to the current stuff:

If Monkey is Town:

Role Owner	Card Name	Role Power	Target
Safety Dance	Electric Company	Tracker	???
Cheery Dog	Waterworks	Tracker	???
Safety Dance	Mediterranean Avenue	Watcher	Jal
Jake	Baltic Avenue	Watcher	Safety Dance
Jal	Park Place	Vig	Mehdi
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk	Boardwalk	Vig	Guille (if Guille gets it, Xis)

If Monkey is Scum:

Role Owner	Card Name	Role Power	Target
Safety Dance	Electric Company	Tracker	Mehdi
Cheery Dog	Waterworks	Tracker	Jake
Safety Dance	Mediterranean Avenue	Watcher	Cheery Dog
Jake	Baltic Avenue	Watcher	Safety Dance
Jal	Park Place	Vig	No Kill
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk	Boardwalk	Vig	No Kill

The If Scum, seems fine, I think I understand it, though its sounds like all it needs is a roleblocker and this can fall apart. What does tracking mehdi do, or in this scenario does the only way for him to be town is if monkey flips rb/rd?

I'm happy with it I guess as long as everyone else is. Does need complicity from all though.

One question for you though, since you were originally on Monkey before going on Mehdi, and you find him scummy enough to plan all this, why haven't you hammered or given intent to?

[SafetyDance]

Safety some powers become useless if claimed. I think I've already said that. Basically for your curiosity you want me to weaken my role.

And it's bad to look at an old pm to make sure I've conveying it right?

Since good luck telling me what chance and chest cards you've gotten without checking.

You can argue not caring as a scum tell but apathy =/= scum. And his comment on me sketchy had nothing to do with your role stuff so yes different reasons can make different conclusions.

And you're assuming no cc exist when the more obvious thing is just repeated roles.

Don't need to check, $100 Xmas and Robert got one that gave him a double vote. A doc card stands out a lot clearly than those, especially if you've just used it the night before, why would you need to check what it is, when its not something you can use again?

Haven't discounted any of the powers claimed could be in scum hands, that's where as long as all town follow the table provided, we hopefully find out if someone's scum.

[SafetyDance]

K you remember all of them. I don't as much. There's no reason to memorize things that you can look at whenever.

I'm saying another copy of those powers can exist in town's hands just that we never tried to fully claim everything and don't currently need to.

It's not really about memorisation. If you just used a doc card why would that not be at the fore front of your mind and why would you need to go check it.

And as for your mystery power, it means less now because there's almost no chance you're going to get lynched today but surely if you're at L-1 or being pressured, if you want to stay alive so you can use your power, you'd claim what you have. Right now you could go into the night and do absolutely anything, especially if monkey ends up town.

[SafetyDance]

Last mega post I promise. Sorry, unfamiliar with getting town pr (even if for a day) so I'd rather cover all basis than none.

Some Vote Analysis for future reference, just in case I am not around to do it day 3.

Spoiler: Monkey's wagon

Current Vote Count 2.06

MonkeyMan576 - 5 (Lord Mhork, Jal, Jake From State Farm, Xisiqomelir, Cheery Dog) (L-1)

Mehdi2277 - 2 (SafetyDance, TehBrawlGuy) (L-4)
guille2015 - 1 (Mehdi2277) (L-5)
Xisiqomelir - 1 (MonkeyMan576) (L-5)
Jake From State Farm - 1 (guilles0215) (L-5)

Not Voting:

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-01-29 14:35:00)

Spoiler: Mehdi's wagon

Current Vote Count 2.03

+ some votes, correct as of #1347

Mehdi2277 - 5 (SafetyDance, Cheery Dog, Jake From State Farm,Jal,MonkeyMan576) (L-1)
MonkeyMan576 - 3 (TehBrawlGuy, Mehdi2277, Lord Mhork) (L-3)

Jake From State Farm - 1 (MonkeyMan576) (L-5)
Cheery Dog - 1 (Xisiqomelir) (L-5)

Not Voting: guille2015,

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-01-29 14:35:00)

Spoiler: StrangerCoug's wagon

Current Vote Count 1.08

(

UNOFFICIAL!!!

Plus Votes from Posts #506 #512)

[/u][/b]

Jal - 4 (Baby Spice, Robert2424, Robert2424, UberNinja) (L-3)
StrangerCoug - 4 (Jake From State Farm, Jal, Xisiqomelir, Agent_Ireland) (L-3)
Lurker - 3 (Lord Mhork, StrangerCoug, numberQ) (L-4)

Baby Spice - 1 (Mehdi2277) (L-6)
Lord Mhork - 1 (Lurker) (L-6)

Not Voting: Mogadishu Jones,

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-01-05 14:10:00)

I seriously like this vote count. Jal's wagon is all town fmpov. We have Lord Mohrk with great reasoning still on Lurker, we have SC there for the same reasons and one of the in-game lurkers numbersQ coming in and popping up just to vote Lurker too, all between the lurker-claim and the lurker-slip. Stranger's wagon is the place to look.

Seriously, if you are surviving town, going back through and reading the posts from around #300-#650, this is where the game can be won

.

Spoiler: Lurker's initial wagon

L-1 wagon was:

Agent_Ireland (unvoted 1st (after claim))
Jal (unvoted 3rd)
Xisiqomelir (unvoted 4th)
Lord Mhork
Mogadishu Jones (unvoted 2nd)
StrangerCoug (CheeryDog)

Jake also labelled Lurker scum but didn't put his vote there until scum slip was caught.
Mogadishu was actually on the wagon, off the wagon, on the wagon then off after claim.

So quick count has Jal is on every wagon whilst CheeryDog/SC, Jake, Xis and AI/MM576 are on 3/4. So they are the most swingy or opportunistic voters. YMMV obviously.

Interesting to see that all bar Xis have some sort of power claim too. Can't read too much into it now but we'll know more after Monkey flips scum or not.

[SafetyDance]

So Jal, Cheery - problems with following the latest table?

[SafetyDance]

Yeah it opens up an easily messed-with target but I suppose one way or the other it allows something to get through, which is the important thing.

Since Monkey isn't even trying now, just need Jal to confirm she's fine and has no probs with it.

[SafetyDance]

Thanks for your help Monkey.

@Mod: Request prod for Jal, please.

[SafetyDance]

Yeah I agree with guille and jal, just because you think something is a scum tell doesn't make it a scum slip and tells are rather subjective (eye of the beholder) so having your own opinion shouldn't mean flippantly accusing people of lack of reading.

Anyway, since we're all on the same page now.

Vote:MonkeyMan576

[SafetyDance]

His belief in three scum may be it bleh.

I am put off by just about the entire town wanting to lynch him

although his lack of responding for an entire day while posting in other threads makes me think scum.

To throw it out there, I was wondering who got the cards during the day to indicate if Cheery may have been lying about having three cards or someone was lying in general about receiving a card since it's mod confirmed Monkey did receive some card at the beginning of D1.

Yet that's where your vote is, so this doesn't really make a lot of sense.

And there's been no conjecture in the cards claimed to believe anyone's lying about receiving any.

Since I think it's a town tell to just want to replace back in after an operation. As for connect the role to things he never once claimed watcher to my knowledge, but has hinted it for a while now.

Would be nice to know who he watched

[SafetyDance]

Did not expect that from Monkey lol. I thought it was maf vs town. Makes n1 and the kills potentially more confusing. Still a possibility of two scum but at least with only one death overnight we still have the advantage.

Well, if this is right, no one else visited CD last night and Mehdi didn't do anything (again).

I got the same message that I got with Mehdi night one for both my results night two and I can't have been blocked day one. So I think its safe to say the "didn't see anything" message is not the same as a no result message. Would be nice to know the difference though.

Okay. Going to out.

I got the boardwalk card at the beginning of the day, meaning Brawl had it. My power got upgraded to "Vigilante" power role instead of being just a Vanilla Townie with cards (I assume).

Scum have their own factional kill.

What does mean? You can shoot twice at night? Or you've now turned into a town PR (vig), irrespective of the cards?

Cheery, do you consider Monkey to be a scum lynch?

The mod said he wasn't (and Mod knows all, though that probably actually points to 3 mafia in total, so my tracking may not be clear at all), so while I consider SKs as scum, I'm aware that some people don't and I'd rather not risk wasting my tracking on another person that may have been dying.

Cheery, why did you track Mhork?

His postings at the end of yesterday were just feeling wrong and when I was reviewing where I should target, I felt there was something between him and Mehdi, and as I don't know how scum you treat SK, I decided to look into the other option who if I followed the scum action plan would be safe from being tracked, it seems a better option, with trying to work out how many scum are left and what may or may not happen with vig kills.

This doesn't make any sense. SK is scum because he's anti-town, scum. Maf is scum too but now we know there's only maf in the game. I don't believe the some people don't bit because I read it as a scum kill, jal did, so did jake and so did TBG. That leaves you in the minority here.

Your excuse is weak because you would have confirmed Jake. He may have been dying? Guess what, so was everyone else, unless you know better than everyone was at risk of dying last night.

As for asking mod, does no one else feel wrong about this? For a start you shouldn't be asking a moderator for an opinion relating to this game and as a moderator he shouldn't be giving an opinion that would influence an action/result in this game. So if what CD claims is true, then we have a case of mod-tampering.

[SafetyDance]

Also doesn't really deny or disprove how theoretically, scum should already have a lynch lined up with you. Hell, if scum really wanted to, why not roleblock Jake and kill Safety?

I'm not sure we have a roleblocker now. 3 known pr roles that we know were going to be used last night, 2 vig cards as well. Plus 2 soft-pr claims from mehdi and xis (who didn't say shit d2). If there was a roleblocker we'd know I think. Redirector is another kettle fish probably.

Wouldn't mind the medhi and xis claims now. And for Mohrk and Guille to post.

[SafetyDance]

be safe from being tracked, it seems a better option, with trying to work out how many scum are left and what may or may not happen with vig kills.

This doesn't make any sense. SK is scum because he's anti-town, scum. Maf is scum too but now we know there's only maf in the game. I don't believe

that

some people don't

bit

because I read it as a scum kill, jal did, so did jake and so did TBG. That leaves you in the minority here.

[/quote]

I should learn to proof better.

[SafetyDance]

When a person asks a question to the mod unless it can't be answered it's likely to get an answer.

Anyways following the plan and doing what helps aren't always the same. The mafia plan was made on the idea of 1 mafia left and clear everyone. SK dying didn't meet that desire so cheery going with just track who he thinks might make a kill when it isn't sure that there isn't any mafia left wasn't a bad choice.

Would you rather I claim first or xis?

No shit they're trying to get an answer. That doesn't mean a mod should come out and say one way or the other. Especially they have all the knowledge of what is going on. That is crap.

It doesn't matter who claims first, whoever's feeling more townie lol

[SafetyDance]

That's half a claim. And quote your breadcrumb post to save us the trouble?

[SafetyDance]

I visited you two days in a row.

[SafetyDance]

Mhork is clearly not aligned with Medhi whatsoever (see how Medhi tried to counter-bandwagon Mhork D1), so that seems like a lame ass tracking target if you think Medhi is scum.

Sorry it I forget stuff from D1 which I wasn't even here for most of.
I'd dropped the brawl scum read during yesterday, as you would have seen the absence of me talking to him.

@safety I read kill flavoring. (I know it's not meant to actually relate to the game, but it was still there)

And I'm now claiming my third starting deed, because it will help you understand it (though I probably should have asked the other two if I'm allowed to do so last night or whenever they can tell at me they they don't want this revealed)
I'm in a neighborhood (red cards) with mhork and guille, stuff mhork said in there last night increased the oddness I had been reading from him yesterday on him as he seemed to be contradicting his stance on mehdi in there compared to in thread. Enough that I felt he was the best track target. (I also asked in there which plan I should follow in there for other's opinions other than my own, and it was decided town flip was possibly better.
I also have my town read on guile based a fair bit in on stuff said inside it. (even though NumQ never posted during night 1, by early read of him was pregame from there more than the lurkaderp in the main thread)

You're claiming you can talk to those two during the night? Wow. :/

That still doesn't address that you talked to the mod about it.

Even if there's a redirector, I think scum could have done a better job than kill TBG town-wise.

My cards upgraded me to PR vig instead of vanilla townie. Only one kill. Still have cards.

All these watcher roles bleh.

So what difference does it actually make? I'm not following that part?

[SafetyDance]

Ok, gotcha. Thanks

P-edit. Yeah, me too Jal. From the sounds of it they had a big conversation yet where are they now? Game's been open for over 24hrs...

[SafetyDance]

I think the only cards we haven't heard any power claims from are pink, dark green and the railways.

Also look at what cards/abilities people had coming into the night

Powers
SD - watcher (purple) + tracker (utility)
CD - tracker (utility) + bean counter (light blue) + neighbourhood (red)
Jake - watcher (purple)
Jal - vig
Xis - something (yellow)
Mehdi - self-watching (orange)
guille - neighbourhood (red)
mhork - neighbourhood (red)
tbg - nothing

Monkey's vig card was in the wind, only now from jal do we know it went to tbg. Too convenient that the one player without anything is the one killed.

[SafetyDance]

@Mehdi2277

: Your question is an absurd hypothetical. I prefer to deal with what we know, and what we know is that 2 conftown have died suspecting you. This is in addition to the town/scum roleblocking and "I protected tbg/I protected x" contradictions.

@SafetyDance

:

Wouldn't mind the medhi and xis claims now. And for Mohrk and Guille to post.

I've stated my conditions. It's inevitable, don't worry.

We've had all night actions and results stated, everyone has posted bar two with apparently no power role. Why wait?

Cheery, do you still only have 3 cards? Did anyone get more cards in the night/day?

[SafetyDance]

For example, I have more powers than vigging.

Pink or Green?

[SafetyDance]

Nevermind, you must have something with the pinks

[SafetyDance]

I assumed he didn't say since it wouldn't be needed if the plan they told him to do involved him picking personally. I can answer him since I don't think he's scum so I don't think it hurts.

No, what you're doing is being a crappy anti-town player that doesn't let someone speak for themselves. Letting someone give their own information, can give town potentially more info and insight into a player's alignment they might not have given otherwise (intentional or not).

P-edit: I have powers concerning

light

green and railroads.

I think people forget there are a lot of deeds which haven't been shown yet, so we don't know what powers they have. I don't think anyone has claimed red, yellow, or dark green yet. There may be a lot of powers in those which can help scum do whatever things.

You missed out the pink here, curiously. So your light greens, same as CD? And you started with 2 railroads, do they give a x-use commute?

[SafetyDance]

TBG claimed to have gotten a new card too on day on so that's at least 4 cards (because he got one of Monkeys) that gone to new owners. We know of one.

[SafetyDance]

Light green is same as CD, which is why I thought Xis' push on him for that aspect was stupid. I gained 2 cards, one over night and one in the morning, one of which was a railroad which combined with the one I started with. Unless we are really going to full claim here, I'm a bit hesitant to claim what railroads do as I know I'm the only one who has more than one.

7 cards were distributed altogether. TBG had at least 4 last night and Monkey had 3.

So you only started with two cards?

I think you're right about the number of cards each player had but its 6 unique cards, because TBG had one of Monkey's 3.

It means his now 4 plus the two others from last night are in new hands.

[SafetyDance]

Railroads are all accounted for now. Only Jake and yourself now know who has what specifically though, so in town interest for reveal, though not pertinent.

Here being Canada? Calling it Pink because med av/baltic is Purple according to role pms and its Pink in the UK version so it avoids confusion.

In clockwise motion: purple,light blue/green, pink, orange, red, yellow, dark green, dark blue

[SafetyDance]

You should know who has B & O.

It just says purple. I sincerely hope the mod hasn't listed to card sets as purple

[SafetyDance]

We have Cheery, Mhork, Guille who each have one card that they're not claiming and 3 cards picked up not being claimed.

Have to consider possible wifom on the Reds/neighbourhood qt and also what to do with mehdi when it looks like there's no roleblocking.

Night.

[SafetyDance]

Actually, the tables were based on if Monkey were scum. Scum, being a catch-all term term for those with a win con different than town's and of an informed minority. So it's not really strictly "mafia aligned."

I am glad to see all similar minded folk were rounded into some neighborhood of their own. Moo.

Anything else to add? Do you agree Mhork is scummy?

Yep and it seemed we all reached that conclusion too. Granted we never made the if SK exception but its still scum, even with bad flavoring.

Glad others have noted Mhrok's contradictive posting. Will wait for him to defend himself.

Xis was meant to be singing too.

[SafetyDance]

Oh and we've got two unclaimed cards from last night and CD + Guille with 1 unknown card each (well, its out of purple/pink, orange, green).

[SafetyDance]

Yeah, from those that died. Jal received two, you and Xis one each.

I made notes on them yesterday but I think I lost it all because its not in my drafts :S

[SafetyDance]

Bah, new pages - in response to Jake's last post on the other page

[SafetyDance]

Bu..bu..bu.. Jal is obvtown!

: I thought so at the end of D1, but this was such a weird contradiction I thought I should check it out:

Okay, I am shooting from a list including all opposed with Mhork included no matter what.

Current Vote Count 2.05

Where's the contradiction? She was claiming to shoot anyone not wanting to do the mock-lynch

with

Mhork included regardless of his position. That's the only reason for an investigation? I can't see this as logical at al.

Bu..bu..bu.. TBG was obvtown!

: The fact that he was completely off his own plan put up giant red flags from me, and I don't know why none of you brought the subject up.

What? He didn't have a power role day 2, how could he go off the plan? In fact he followed it judging by the lack of extra kill.

No use trying to admonish us for something you didn't bring up either. Hindsight Hero much?

Now, as I told Mehdi after he asked about my voting him, I'm extremely short of scumreads right now.

-Inno Jal
-Town Jake
-Town guille (<-----Am I the only person with this opinion?)

Leaves:

- 1 scum {SafetyDance,Mehdi2277}, with Mehdi getting the vote now, but SafetyDance's continued rolefishing over scumhunting worth noting
- 1 scum {CheeryDog,Mhork}, with me being totally lost on this one. I still hate StrangerCoug's lurker vote, but Cheery being open about the light green is townpoints. I'm totally uncertain about Mhork.

That's terrible PoE. For someone that's meant to have a role that deals with absolutes, not including Jake/guille in any scum scenario is terrible.

You voted CD for his Deed card claim but you're now giving him townpoints for doing so? What the fuck?

Rolefishing over Scumhunting? You haven't noticed the posts mentioning the discrepancies in LM and CD red cards, trying to press you to post when you said you were going to, waiting for the two lurkers to post. How is that now scumhunting? Putting the puzzle of the board together, you think its better to be in the dark?

I don't like your cop claim at all. You gave off scum vibes a lot reading through day one, which got bumped down day 2 thanks to Mehdi and Monkey.

This post claims "trust me" which of course leads to the opposite.

[SafetyDance]

I was thinking if cheery was scum he RB'd you. But obviously not

Wouldn't you have seen it?

WOULD HAVE PROVED IF A WATCHER WERE LYING ALSO.

You're mixing up the roles. Mehdi has never been visited by a watcher (afawk). I tracked him, I watched Cheery, Jake watched myself and Cheery tracked Mhork.

If Xis claim is false or Mehdi flips town, then he's in a scum pair with either you/jake/CD

PEDIT: damn p-edit

[SafetyDance]

I just don't get how the one thing people thought I was (sk) gets killed and people are like, "nah, dat got to be scumz still" especailly after that theory of yours where you thought there was possible 2 vigs and a sk.

I don't understand this, particularly the quoted part.

[SafetyDance]

Because if false then it implies the claim was orchestrated and it works in their favour if one side appears town to use their power to the benefit of town whilst the hidden one (Xis) remains unclaimed until now, doing whatever it actually is.

P-edit: I did have a valid concern that a vig claim was a sk, it ended up right And Xis

was

correct when he predicted there to be a serial killer.

[SafetyDance]

I can't believe you took a sarcastic comment seriously.

He apparently misinterpreted it too. Opposed may have needed a comma after it.

Let's eat Grandma/Let's eat, Grandma etc etc

[SafetyDance]

It's simple. Xis believes there is actually a vig (2 in fact) and a sk. We kill the SK, who was the one other who claimed vig. Logically, one would assume they still should believe there's a vig, at least somewhat in that theory. Maybe not

two

vigs, because they thought there was another shooter, but we essentially lynched my cc yesterday. Where did belief in the vig go?

Also, I am going to fuck up Uber for completely shitfesting this game, because the only reason I have suspicion is because he sperged all over this thread and I hate playing days other than D1. I actually am pretty sure the Sk killed Uber also now, as that was Agent Ireland's main suspect at the end of yesterday.

I'm still not following (I should probably go back to bed). Who's claiming there's now two vigs? There's only one vig claim now, you. Or are you talking about yesterday? Did anyone claim they didn't believe there were two vig cards?

[SafetyDance]

Where's the contradiction? She was claiming to shoot anyone not wanting to do the mock-lynch

with

Mhork included regardless of his position. That's the only reason for an investigation? I can't see this as logical at al.

Shooting people exclusively off a wagon where they are voting with you doesn't seem absurd? Jal has said it was intended as sarcasm, so it was obviously intended to be peculiar.

You've just admitted to either reading the whole post wrong or you're doing it deliberately.

Read everything:

I actually want a mock vig lynch please.

I actually want a mock vig lynch please.

I am opposed.

Okay, I am shooting from a list including all opposed with Mhork included no matter what.

We never did do a mock lynch, that vote count is irrelevant and Jal clearly didn't press the issue, re-enforcing here defence that is was a sarcastic comment.

That's terrible PoE. For someone that's meant to have a role that deals with absolutes, not including Jake/guille in any scum scenario is terrible.

There is literally zero chance Jake is scum. I am never investigating him this game. Guille is only scum if the rest of his neighbourhood is town.

Your working out here is fantastic, got me convinced. (this is sarcasm)

What? He didn't have a power role day 2, how could he go off the plan? In fact he followed it judging by the lack of extra kill.

Exempting himself as a tracker or vig target was suspicious.

So suspicious, you never brought it up. You didn't claim yesterday so no one was any of the wiser, so why not, when there was ample opportunity to post, did you not mention it? Again, why try to beat down the rest of us for not doing so yesterday?

Rolefishing over Scumhunting?

Yup. "Scumhunting" is identifying scum and voting them.

You haven't noticed the posts mentioning the discrepancies in LM and CD red cards

Rolefishing.

trying to press you to post when you said you were going to waiting for the two lurkers to post.

Rolefishing.

How is that now scumhunting?

Who are you voting?

So you have a narrow-minded view of what scum-hunting is and it has to fit your criteria of "voting".

Finding discrepancies

is

trying to identify scum.

Helping piece together who has what

is

helping town.

Waiting for you to post before voting

is

waiting to hear what everyone has to say to help form a better opinion on who is scum.

Putting the puzzle of the board together, you think its better to be in the dark?

This is a strawman.

I don't like your cop claim at all. You gave off scum vibes a lot reading through day one, which got bumped down day 2 thanks to Mehdi and Monkey.

This post claims "trust me" which of course leads to the opposite.

Believe what you will. My information is mod-confirmed.

And this isn't an Appeal to Higher Authority?

All information is from the mod.

[SafetyDance]

So by your own process of elimination that leaves you as scum? Doesn't make much sense. I had Mhork down as underlined and bolded pro-town day one too. His progressive play since start day 2 has been bad though. So ignoring outside causes like schizophrenia, there's something up with that. And I don't even have a "scummy" QT to go by, so I'm not sure why you're still giving a die-hard town read.

Mehdi is still the best lynch today, but I'm not going to vote yet, I want to use max time available because if he flips town, shit just got very interesting.

With Jal holding 2 vigs cards there *should* only be two kills. Best case scenario for scum is 5 people D4 and we're at lylo. Mylo if vig doesn't shoot on a town lynch.

Time to pop open a xis/jake iso.

Pedit: Riddle me this batman. 13 players start, 5 are dead. 3 in neighbourhood all alive day 3.

[SafetyDance]

The probability that all 3 of the Neighborhood are town is 23% assuming there are three mafia and one SK in this game. So, it is possible.

If you think I am scum, and you are not voting for me. I don't see why you would word it as "One of the neighborhood

probably

is scum.". For some reason that doesn't match your position on the members of the Neighborhood.

You don't think that a 77% chance quantifies the term "probably"?

[SafetyDance]

This is what I want to happen today: I don't care if you are someone who doesn't want to claim cards. Just claim you got a new card or two. I am intrigued if scum may be holding back on info and potential powers now that more cards have been distributed.

I'd like the claims too because with the amount of information now out on the board, any unclaimed cards now mean that person has more knowledge then the rest of town.

CD has one known card that we don't know even the colour to at least and there's 2 unclaimed cards from last night/day.

@Mod Can you fix the square bracket in #1907 ?

[SafetyDance]

I see there being scum in your neighbourhood very probable. Especially since none of you are pushing up the daises and have been in the qt since the start (didn't inherit cards). Probable doesn't mean most its the most likely. Raw statistics is now 37.5% of current alive list. Don't you agree that's a better percentage than 3/13?

[SafetyDance]

That's not what I mean. The term Probably is used correctly, but I find it odd that someone will say that

I

am scum

Now, the reason I found your statement odd is because of the wording. If you think I am scum, and you are not voting for me. I don't see why you would word it as "One of the neighborhood

probably

is scum.". For some reason that doesn't match your position on the members of the Neighborhood.

[SafetyDance]

Back tracking:

I have reason to believe Uber may have visited someone last night.

Why did you think this?

[SafetyDance]

I see there being scum in your neighbourhood very probable. Especially since none of you are pushing up the daises and have been in the qt since the start (didn't inherit cards). Probable doesn't mean most its the most likely. Raw statistics is now 37.5% of current alive list. Don't you agree that's a better percentage than 3/13?

9/13 x 8/13 x 7/13 =~ 23% assuming 3 scum and 1 SK.

Advanced maths was never my thing, where does the 8 and 7 fractions come into it and why multiply them?

And Yes, random, which is implied when the mod advertised the game as "swingy".

[SafetyDance]

@Mod: Does watcher watching count as a visit?

[SafetyDance]

How does knowing he didn't target anyone help you in figuring out what his second card is?

This is silly. I have no clue what to do. All y'all are getting these awesome cards with power roles and

all I have is a stupid green card

that says nothing but 'you're a VT! '

and a red card

that I completely forgot about last night. Ergh.

I will do more catch up/playing/whatever later.

Seriously. This town.

Waiting on mod to answer question

[SafetyDance]

EDIT: FFS. This was meant to be posted before previous post

The reading comprehension skills from this town is really lacking. Ironic that after Day 2 its Jake that's doing it.

His tracking of Mhork is suspicious because it broke from the plan, not that his report was he didn't go anywhere. I don't know how you can claim otherwise.

[SafetyDance]

@Mod: So why say something different in your pm?

Half the time I don't know if you're a player or the moderator...

Safety 1950 was in relation to 1787. The point was how he gained knowledge on his role from the not tracking not what the role is.

His break of plan can be split amongst the neighborhood since they've said they agreed on it together.

So why not say so (that it was in relation to 1787).

Yes, he does need to say what he meant there and what card(s?) he thought LM had.

[SafetyDance]

[SafetyDance]

V/LA next 2 days

[SafetyDance]

I'm here.

*prod dodge*

Will try to post something next 24hrs

[SafetyDance]

I'm here, will catch up properly later because I'm running out of time tonight.

If Mehdi flips town, then that would be proof to me there's some sort of mafia power role, be it a re-director or roleblocker or something else. Otherwise, could just be fail on GNR's NAR.

If Mehdi flips scum power role, then yeah, that'd make life a lot easier going forward.

Couple of questions for now, would people rather go into day 4 in lylo or mlyo? Because if today is a mislynch then that's the question facing the vig.

Also, have people noticed we haven't had any powers claimed for special cards (chance or community chest) during day 2 and now day 3? I'm guessing scum have been given something that they don't wish to share. Can't believe there'd be just two days of people getting bank refunds etc.

[SafetyDance]

In English?

[SafetyDance]

Ugh, I'm here. Haven't been idle, just limited in time. Do have some things to post when I can.

[SafetyDance]

Jal, I have seen your posts about who has what, will post everything I know. I have the last unclaimed Green, which means there's a purple (or pink) properties that was in either Monkey or TBG's hands that has been unclaimed. You're right, likely scum.

I haven't referenced anything because frankly, you should know yourselves where the information came from, it's all from posts and if you haven't you're an idiot. For clarity with the use of colors, will use light blue instead of light green and brown for purple.

Spoiler: CheeryDog

Card #1

Card Type:

LIGHT BLUE

("light green")
Street Name:

Oriental Avenue

Ability: Deed Counter (=> 2)
Received: At Start

Card #2

Card Type:

UTILITY

Street Name:

Water Works

Ability: Tracker
Received: At Start

Card #3

Card Type:

RED

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: Neighbourhood
Received: At Start

Card #4

Card Type:

GREEN

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: None
Received: Day 2

Spoiler: guille2015

Card #1

Card Type:

ORANGE

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: None
Received: At Start

Card #2

Card Type:

RED

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: Neighbourhood
Received: At Start

Card #3

Card Type:

RAILROAD

Street Name:

B&O Railroad

Ability: None
Received: Night 1

Spoiler: Jake from State Farm

Card #1

Card Type:

BROWN

("purple")
Street Name:

Baltic Avenue

Ability: Watcher
Received: At Start

Card #2

Card Type:

RAILROAD

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: None
Received: At Start

Card #3

Card Type:

PURPLE

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: None
Received:

Night 2/Day 3

Spoiler: Jal

Card #1

Card Type:

PURPLE

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: None
Received:

At Start

Card #2

Card Type:

RAILROAD

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability:

Unknown

Received: At Start

Card #3

Card Type:

LIGHT BLUE

("light green")
Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: Deed Counter (=> 2)
Received: Night 2

Card #4

Card Type:

DARK BLUE

Street Name:

Park Place

Ability: Vigilante
Received: Day 2

Card #5

Card Type:

RAILROAD

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability:

Unknown

Received: Night 2

Card #6

Card Type:

DARK BLUE

Street Name:

Boardwalk

Ability: Vigilante
Received: Day 3

Spoiler: Lord Mhork

Card #1

Card Type:

RED

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: Neighbourhood
Received: At Start

Card #2

Card Type:

GREEN

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: None
Received: At Start

Spoiler: Mehdi2277

Card #1

Card Type:

ORANGE

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: Self-Watcher
Received: At Start

Card #2

Card Type:

ORANGE

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: Self-Watcher
Received: At Start

Spoiler: SafetyDance

Card #1

Card Type:

BROWN

("purple")
Street Name:

Mediterranean Avenue

Ability: Watcher
Received: At Start

Card #2

Card Type:

YELLOW

Street Name:

Atlantic Avenue

Ability: None
Received: At Start

Card #3

Card Type:

UTILITY

Street Name:

Electric Company

Ability: Tracker
Received: Night 1

Card #4

Card Type:

GREEN

Street Name:

Pacific Avenue

Ability: None
Received: Day 3

Spoiler: Xisiqomelir

Card #1

Card Type:

YELLOW

Street Name:

Ventnor Avenue

Ability: Cop
Received: At Start

Card #2

Card Type:

YELLOW

Street Name:

Marvin Gardens

Ability: Cop
Received: At Start

Card #3

Card Type:

LIGHT BLUE

("light green")
Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: Deed Counter (=> 2)
Received:

Night 2/Day 3

Distribution of Killed Cards

Night 1: (2) SafetyDance, guille2015
Day 2: (4) jal, TehBrawlGuy, MonkeyMan5765, CheeryDog
Night 2: (3) jal, TehBrawlguy,

?????

Day 3: (4) jal, SafetyDance, Jake From State Farm, Xisiqomelir

MISSING:

Purple, last card received during either night 2/day 3 depending on Xis or Jake and when they recieved their new cards

WHO KNOWS WHAT

(who has extra information based on their own cards and the above)
Jal and Xis know who has what light blue, therefore all the light blues.
Guille and Mehdi know the exact names of each other's orange cards.
Cheery, Guille, Mhork, all know who has what red cards.
Cheery and Mhork now know who has the other green cards.
Jal and Jake know which railroad cards the other has.

Which means you all have more info than me. If there are an mistakes, let me know. Feel free to add any info to the grey areas.



If it's the sort of thing that floats your boat:

Spoiler: working out

Name/Total/D1/D2/D3
Cheery 4 3/1/0
Guille 3 2/1/0
JakeFSF 3 2/0/1
Jal 6 3/1/2
LMhork 2 2/0/0
Mehdi 2 2/0/0
Safety 4 2/1/1
Xis 3 2/0/1

Monkey 2/1/0
TBG 2/1/0


Lurker 2/0/0
Baby 2/0/0
UN 2/0/0

Totals 28/28/27

[SafetyDance]

For those that hate text:

Spoiler:

~The Mod likes~
~Mod Out~

Where grey border means unconfirmed placing.

Before you ask, yes, it takes many hours of practise to have the elite photoshopping skillz I have.

[SafetyDance]

Now, onto Xis...

@SafetyDance

:

That's terrible PoE. For someone that's meant to have a role that deals with absolutes, not including Jake/guille in any scum scenario is terrible.

There is literally zero chance Jake is scum. I am never investigating him this game. Guille is only scum if the rest of his neighbourhood is town.

Your working out here is fantastic, got me convinced. (this is sarcasm)

I've already posted about Guille. Jake's reaction to Uberninja D1 and Jal D2 is consummate town-Jake, from my personal experience of town-Jake.

Yes, you had:

-Town guille (<-----Am I the only person with this opinion?)

Fantastic case.

What? He didn't have a power role day 2, how could he go off the plan? In fact he followed it judging by the lack of extra kill.

Exempting himself as a tracker or vig target was suspicious.

So suspicious, you never brought it up. You didn't claim yesterday so no one was any of the wiser, so why not, when there was ample opportunity to post, did you not mention it? Again, why try to beat down the rest of us for not doing so yesterday?

I wasn't about to make myself a target for scum-TBG.

How are you being "beaten down"?

Note I used the pronoun "us". I wasn't referring to myself individually. You did admonish 'us':

Bu..bu..bu.. TBG was obvtown!

: The fact that he was completely off his own plan put up giant red flags from me, and

I don't know why none of you brought the subject up.

So you have a narrow-minded view of what scum-hunting is and it has to fit your criteria of "voting".

Of course it does. Town wins by lynching.

You're being deliberately dense and stupid. Trying to scumhunt is a bit more than voting. Guess what? Who wins by town mislynching? I'm sure you can figure that one out.

Finding discrepancies

is

trying to identify scum.

Helping piece together who has what

is

helping town.

Waiting for you to post before voting

is

waiting to hear what everyone has to say to help form a better opinion on who is scum.

So...have you identified any scum? Who are they? If you haven't, what else do you need?

Unlike you seem to be, I'm not 100% sure of who's scum and who's not. At the start of a the day (which it was), there is no need to rush into a vote. How is a speed lynch useful?

[SafetyDance]

And herein lies the crux of a bigger problem:

@SafetyDance

:

I'm here, will catch up properly later because I'm running out of time tonight.

If Mehdi flips town, then that would be proof to me there's some sort of mafia power role, be it a re-director or roleblocker or something else. Otherwise, could just be fail on GNR's NAR.

If Mehdi is town, I am going to bay for your blood.

This underlines another of the reasons I'm misliking your postings and reasons more. You somehow think its one or the other between us. You've now admitted to blatantly wanting to tunnel this potentially at mylo/lylo.

Coming from my perspective, I find this idea appalling. If Mehdi does end up town, then because I am town, this would put the game into the hands of a scum wincon. Nah, I'm happy to get this out and dusted with now.

You seem to not being able to grasp just what the situation is here. It is not a counter-claim, the

fact

is that I got a result on Mehdi saying he didn't go anywhere and very early on in the day, he claimed to have visited someone.

It is a Lynch All Liars scenario. I can see no good reason to have someone we don't know is telling the truth and carrying them through to mylo/lylo. So he has to go today, that much, town seems to be in agreement on.

Everything is fine if he flips scum, the problem arises if he doesn't. You may also notice that my night action results the last two days, if they are true (which they are), then that indicates that Mehdi hasn't killed anyone. This does raise

doubts

. Even if he is scum, that means we're not lynching the mafia who killed, its even a worse proposition if he is town.

What would it mean for my result? I don't know. GNR has already hinted at something bigger with the role mechanics, which he will expand on after the game but we don't know for sure

what

roles are out there on the mafia side. The only power that town has received in this game has been from the cards. Jal, as holder of the two vigs cards has become an actual vig as opposed to a VT with vig powers.

We have a lot of roles already claimed so its stupid to think that some aren't in scum hands but do they have their own abilities like a role-blocker or redirector (or ninja :/)? Just because there's no evidence at the moment, doesn't mean it's not a possibility, unless you can point to conclusive proof?

Mafia can easily be lying about their powers but as town we have no idea about what. Which comes to your claim and your reasons for your cop investigations. The whole tone and explanation, from someone that's been so quiet, does not sit right to me. Your day one investigation is continentally dead and on day two you investigated the biggest town read here because of one sarcastic comment you misinterpreted? Even taking that on face value, it shows you don't seem to be reading or caring much for the game, which doesn't seem very town. Then there's all the other problems I pointed out earlier.

So yeah, if it has to come between you or me then I would much rather the vig shoot between us and remove that as an option. Presuming you're town, all it would take tomorrow is another idiot town following you and then scum to quick lynch for the win. There is no way I want that as an option.

[SafetyDance]

I would suggest to have Safety watch Jal. This would prevent town from loosing the Vig and giving those cards to scum. the only problem with this plan is if Jal is scum (which I find unlikely). This would allow town to have a 2 Kill LyLo. Which is not an advantage. If we refrain from vigging, then we have a 2 kill MyLo which is an advantage. I cannot make that decision because the one being Vigged is me. The advantage of course being that reaching a 2 kill MyLo would prevent Xis from faking a guilty result.

Can you, or someone else, expand on the differences in 2 mylo lynches over 2 lylos lynches and how its an advantage? The way I see it at the moment is there is no differences, you still have to get the lynch right regardless.

If mehndi is scum, I'm really wondering about safety. His lack of participation compared to the rest of the game strikes me as odd

These two sentences do not add up at all, or go together.

Anyway, time has limited me a lot this week, as I have posted before if you care to read back. It is not just this game, I haven't been able to focus properly on all my games. Am hoping for more time after this weekend is over but don't fear, I am playing.

Surprised you don't show much concern over Xis. Been here from the start, barely 50 posts in a game of 2000+ and when mentioning he'll post later (#2030), in his next post (#2044), he only mentions one thing and that was posted after his prod-dodge post, not before. Reads to me like someone posting for the sake of it.

Just how did he get a town-read from people (before claim)?

[SafetyDance]

Further thinking, this game really does hinge on Jal's alignment. There's no other way now of knowing for sure she's town and we're just going to have to trust a cop claim and identifying the scum-slip, even if it was bussing.

The more I think about it too, the more concerned I am about the night one kill. If mafia had a kill, the serial killer had one, and the two vigilantes as well, then that is 4 kills that could have potentially happened and yet we only had two. We've had no evidence of any protection roles ('cept the mehdi thing) so you have to presume that if any shot, it got through. There's no reason scum wouldn't kill if they had the chance so that would mean either that both vigs didn't kill which seems unlikely, everyone is trigger happy as a vig, which can be a problem or they doubled up with the kills but I can't see any reason why town-UN and town-BS would cross kill each other.

This doesn't help:

Spoiler:

Monopoly Mafia -

Where the Power is in the Property

[/b]

[SafetyDance]

My statement adds up cause you haven't been posting much since its obvious mehndi is getting lynched. That would mean you are trying to avoid commenting on it. You say you were busy but who knows really.

My phones about to die so can't really read all these posts now

It doesn't make sense because its my claim that mehdi is lying about the night doc visit. If he and I are scum together, how the fuck is that even a logical thing to do?

[SafetyDance]

Here. Give me a moment to catch up.

[SafetyDance]

Laptop battery says no. Sorry, may get time later back home.

[SafetyDance]

No hammer please. We've still got three days left and don't know about others but I certainly need to use it.

[SafetyDance]

Disgustingly scummy misrepresentation. My actual town-guille case, for anyone who's forgotten:

Spoiler:

@Mehdi2277

:

Also, this is ridiculous:

VOTE: guille

NumberQ was town.

Sorry for being so late to the party, but I'm all caught up now.

I have one question: Why did Lurker's claim make so many people back off? So, what, he says he's a watcher and suddenly you believe him?

What about his post-claim actions changed your mind?

Also, take a look at the mini-theme queue, at the post that introduces Monopoly Mafia. I didn't find this info in the first post of this thread. It says that deeds are randomized AFTER alignments are given. Lurker could be a watcher, but also scum.

Lurker:

Before the claim, his content amounted to an analysis of his own wagon (though unless I read it wrong he didn't even supply any opinions of his own), a case on Mhork (which is weak, but that's already been discussed), and a few statements that almost sound like the beginnings of some investigation but stop before they go anywhere (see: 76, 89).

Then he claimed, and for some reason people forgot that the game explicitly stated that cards (ie, powers) are randomized after alignment assignments, meaning alignment has nothing to do with powers. On top of that, the claim was strange because he waited until someone specifically asked him about it to mention his Watcher role.

Post-claim Lurker has been IIoA and a promise to look at the SC issue, though he's posted since that promise without having looked at the issue.

....

So yeah Lurker should be lynched.

VOTE: Lurker

That's well ahead of either Lurker's slip in #656 or Jal's catch in #674.

Which only mehdi has shown signs of wanting to refute.

Rofl, how can it be a misinterpretation when you don't even mention that post. I don't see it anywhere in Post #1867. Considering how diligent a player you consider yourself to be, you would think you would mention that post specifically, or reference to it if you had something important in it, especially since it was 400 pages. Heck people can't remember what cards they've received let alone what a sporadic poster wrote

the day before

.

Aside from the grammatical quibble that "you" also functions as a second person plural in English, there's a significant difference in tonal intensity between being "admonished" and being "beaten down". #1867 is certainly chiding, but it's hardly suppressive.

You're trying to argue semantics? Of all the points I made, this is what you're trying to argue? I don't care what meaning you give those words, it was being condescending, it was beating down town for something you didn't do either. You don't get town-cred for trying to work that angle.

You're being deliberately distracting and self-righteous. Oh look, I can play insult game too.

Town cannot win except by lynching. That mislynching is an unfortunate occurence doesn't change the facts.

More pointless stupidity and still defending a nonsensical viewpoint than addressing anthing. According to you, all this talk is pointless and every post would just be filled with voting, because that's scum hunting! Yeah....

I also strongly disagree with your stance that not voting is acceptable town behaviour. At the very least, effort should be made to identify scum by posting.

re: You and Mehdi, one of you is lying, and all your peculiar behaviour to the contrary, I consider it more likely that it's Mehdi. I am interested that you're reacting so strongly to even hypothetical suspicion, though.

Why not, I can see you trying to set me up day four. That's called foresight. Would you ignore someone trying to set you up for a lynch on the morrow when it could be lylo/mylo? Oh right, you would ignore it because its not a post with voting.

You haven't even bothered, at all, to consider that we're both telling the truth. It's "fact" to you that its one or the other. Sorry but there is no way you are town and know "factually" that one of us is definitely scum. I'm the one with the counter-claim to mehdi's night action and I don't know for sure. So there's no way you know for sure, unless you are scum. If mehdi is lying and flips scum, great, this has been easy and we can hold hands skipping into the sunset. Until that flip...

Open question to everyone else. Why does Xis have a town read? He only just today (real time) passed the mod in post count. Considering he's been here from the start, why are you allowing him to cruise through?

[SafetyDance]

Can you, or someone else, expand on the differences in 2 mylo lynches over 2 lylos lynches and how its an advantage? The way I see it at the moment is there is no differences, you still have to get the lynch right regardless.

Difference between a 2 kill MyLo and a 2 kill Lylo. By 2 kill I am refering to the ability to choose who the Vig Kills.

Mylo is 6 players, 2 of which are mafia. Lylo is 5 players, 2 of which are mafia. If we can kill two players during a day/night transition, in Lylo you cannot miss and hit town. So, if the Lynch is on Scum, then the vig should do nothing, and if the Lynch is on town, the Vig can do nothing.

On Mylo, If you hit Scum in the Lynch, thye vig will either hit scum and win or reduce the play to 3 people. If the Lynch is on Town, then the vig can attempt to shot the Scum and reach a 3 player LyLo. Without the Vig we would lose on Mylo if we lynch town.

Thanks for the explanation. It would be nice to get a vig shot though. In hindsight maybe should have happened yesterday but if we can get it on the next then that would be the same result anyway. Means Jal has to be protected with a watcher.

I just got a 2nd vote. Yay me

That makes up for you losing it day 1 then.

I only gained a macho attribute.

Well I'm glad these suddenly appeared. Notice you mentioned when I posted Post #2036

Will reply to Safety in a bit.

Still waiting on this.

Off on a semi-tangent but;

Really annoyed actually, that no one has mentioned the list post I did. That took me ages (the text, not the photo) yet no one has mentioned anything and only mehdi has claimed new info. What the hell?

We have an unclaimed card, it would be useful to know who's hands its in. There is no town reason for keeping it hidden, if we know everything then it helps us keep everyone accountable. Effectively this silence equates to admittance its in scum hands.

The only person with any real gain from keeping it hidden is Jake. Jal has another purple too but since she's already got a zillion (6) cards it doesn't seem likely she's got yet more.

So huge FOS right there.

[SafetyDance]

I haven't voted because I don't see the Mehdi scum thing.

It's based on the fact that he would have to be a power role

, yet supposedly every role is determined by the randomly distributed cards. It doesn't make sense to me and the 'revelation' looks forced like Cheery is just trying to justify Medhi scum at all costs. The only rationale that Cheery has given has been that it would make sense from a balance perspective, yet this setup is supposedly supposed to be swingy, hence why I still don't buy it.

Wrong, it's based on the fact he has a scum partner that's entered in the night kills. The only person claiming he's a ninja is Cheery. And he doesn't look very town for doing so.

Thing is I'm not completely sold on Medhi town, either, because all these arguments he's giving are confusing as all hell. He's taking a more 'yeah I'm gonna be lynched and flip town so you all need to follow this plan' approach rather than the, in my opinion more town motivated, 'You guys shouldn't lynch me because I'm town. Here are my scum reads.' I'm having trouble reconciling the bad Cheery argument and the bad Mehdi play.

Steve McQueen would be rolling in his grave with that pathetic excuse of an escape route. Trying to cover your arse already? Good to know who to focus on if he does end up scum.

[SafetyDance]

Tennessee and New York avenue are the names of the oranges I have.

And safety do you really want to follow lynch all liars that hard? I know I've said this before but yes it applies. Read me for what I've said. I think I've said plenty and that reading me from what I've said and done is doable. Or am I really a null read without the role stuff? No idea should be blindly followed.

Anyways scum wise currently I'm at guille > xis > mhork (I chose to put mhork above xis mainly for actually pushing lurker after the claim). If we don't have someone scum flip today then thinking on it I don't want xis checking guille or mhork.

Thanks and yes.

Today's the last chance to get you out of the way before we end up in any mylo/lylo situation. I certainly don't want anyone with a possible lie/counter-claim in the game in that situation, I don't think anyone would. It clouds reads because have to be absolutely sure, so if you're town it gets you out of the way to avoid an easy lynch and if your scum, well it saves that lylo/mylo for another day. Win/win.

It's more of a good thing even if your play-style has been pro-town. With out that flip we wont know one way or the other if you are actually town. If you are, then us remaining can look back at your posts and read you for what you said without any fog, and use who you focus on and use that to help base accurate reads.

It's not being blindly followed (by me at least), I'd hope all my posts on the subject since speaking up would show I've actually thought on it. By rights maybe you should have been vigged so we got that flip but its now or never really. And I think I mentioned before the day before where your play hasn't been exactly overwhelmingly consistent.

[SafetyDance]

Re your question about xis - he isn't a town read. He's null

Re the unclaimed card - if it hasn't been claimed by now it's fairly obvious scum has it. I figured as much the last time, not sure why you brought it up again.

How do I gain from somebody hiding a card? I don't understand that

1) That's so useful, after 3 days of play you can't read someone one way or the other. What was it you were saying about Mhork being useless?

2) You mentioned it, great? You may have noticed I haven't been the busiest person on here this current day, we've had 436 posts, I may have missed it. The last time I mentioned which you are referring to, I presume it was when I did the list of cards posts. Care to point where you mentioned it? I'm bringing it up because I think its relevant and I haven't seen anyone aside for Jal about a week ago, give any thought to it.

3) You being stupid? You don't gain from somebody else hiding the card,

you

gain the most from hiding the card. You and Jal both have Purples, that much has been claimed. 1 card + 1 card = 2 cards and a power attained. Jal has already received one card last night and one card this day, he can't have another unless GNR is using some weird system for it. That leaves you with the most to gain from hiding it.

Otherwise, who the fuck knows who has it? You've got a better suspect?

[SafetyDance]

That's me caught up. Thank goodness.

Concerning the tables/night actions, I'm not good at them, at least with this many players so I don't mind it deferred to others, especially with my time constraints. I don't mind mehdi doing but I think it's fine that guille is discussing it too. As long as you both (and jake since he's joined in anyway) come to an agreement on both lynch scenarions I'm happy but we've got 3 days to sort it out.

What's the current list if town-flip/scum-flip?

I think people should be listing their current reads before a hammer, so they're at least held to a particular standpoint which can be used as a basis tomorrow. And it helps with an easy reference when trying to look back.

For instance, if Mehdi's scum, my reads are Mhork/Guille as scum partner

If Mehdi's town then likely out of Xis, Jake/CD, Mhork/Guile.

Which reminds me, something I forgot to mention in #2169 is if Mehdi flips town then the immediate question (at least fmpov) is to wonder how I got a didn't go anywhere tracking result (same as day 2).

[SafetyDance]

1. Poe means xis has to be town, but some of the things he does make me not so sure. Like investigating Jal instead of someone else.

2. I'm confused here. You brought up the point about someone having a card but not claiming it. You brought it up again recently. We realize that whoever has this card is probably scum. I just didn't see the point in bringing it up again. Everyone already had their chance to claim and additional card. I claimed the 1 card I received already, I only received just 1. Nobody bothered to ask me the name so I never mentioned it. Didn't think it's relevant but everyone knows the color. I got States Ave. but like I said the name means nothing.

3. Why am I the only one who would benefit from hiding a card? Why can't mhork, guile, mehndi, cheery, xis, or even you be hiding the card? Whoever has it and is hiding it is the one who has sonething to gain. I don't know why you felt the need to single me out.

Do I have a better suspect to who could be hiding it? Yes mhork, guile, mehndi, cheery, xis, or even you.

In your mind I'm really the only one who could be hiding it? Bullshit

What's bullshit is your comprehension skills. You are the better suspect for hiding the card because there is a clear motive for you to do so, one we could have applied to Jal also but we can rule out because of card's she's received. You're not the only suspect, you're not instantly scum now, you're just the only one with a valid reason to hide it. I mean, what reason does anyone, regardless of alignment, have of hiding a card that has no ability to them at the moment? Especially since we've already had all sorts of power roles claimed now. there's no rationale. Again, to reiterate so it hopefully sinks in, that does not make you the only one that may hide it, it gives a reason for you to be the most likely.

I mentioned it four days ago, since then, everyone has ignored the whole post, including the card that's unclaimed. If 7 other people are ignoring the fact, why not bring up that they are ignoring it and try to address the point again, I think its something that needs to be focused on, we've only got a few days remaining for this game day left. You think ignoring it more will suddenly make someone claim, or for other people to notice?

If no ones mentions they think that card is indeed in scum hands, why presume that everyone is presuming the same thing. That's a one-way highway to miscommunication and misinterpretation.

Naming the card, listing the power those cards give you, gives us more information and less information someone else can bullshit later on.

[SafetyDance]

For the record, I'm ok with #2088 being edited by someone else tomorrow if there's further information and I'm not around.

[SafetyDance]

Spoiler: quote wall

1. Poe means xis has to be town, but some of the things he does make me not so sure. Like investigating Jal instead of someone else.

2. I'm confused here. You brought up the point about someone having a card but not claiming it. You brought it up again recently. We realize that whoever has this card is probably scum. I just didn't see the point in bringing it up again. Everyone already had their chance to claim and additional card. I claimed the 1 card I received already, I only received just 1. Nobody bothered to ask me the name so I never mentioned it. Didn't think it's relevant but everyone knows the color. I got States Ave. but like I said the name means nothing.

3. Why am I the only one who would benefit from hiding a card? Why can't mhork, guile, mehndi, cheery, xis, or even you be hiding the card? Whoever has it and is hiding it is the one who has sonething to gain. I don't know why you felt the need to single me out.

Do I have a better suspect to who could be hiding it? Yes mhork, guile, mehndi, cheery, xis, or even you.

In your mind I'm really the only one who could be hiding it? Bullshit

What's bullshit is your comprehension skills. You are the better suspect for hiding the card because there is a clear motive for you to do so, one we could have applied to Jal also but we can rule out because of card's she's received. You're not the only suspect, you're not instantly scum now, you're just the only one with a valid reason to hide it. I mean, what reason does anyone, regardless of alignment, have of hiding a card that has no ability to them at the moment? Especially since we've already had all sorts of power roles claimed now. there's no rationale. Again, to reiterate so it hopefully sinks in, that does not make you the only one that may hide it, it gives a reason for you to be the most likely.

I mentioned it four days ago, since then, everyone has ignored the whole post, including the card that's unclaimed. If 7 other people are ignoring the fact, why not bring up that they are ignoring it and try to address the point again, I think its something that needs to be focused on, we've only got a few days remaining for this game day left. You think ignoring it more will suddenly make someone claim, or for other people to notice?

If no ones mentions they think that card is indeed in scum hands, why presume that everyone is presuming the same thing. That's a one-way highway to miscommunication and misinterpretation.

Naming the card, listing the power those cards give you, gives us more information and less information someone else can bullshit later on.

how is my reading comprehension bullshit? No where have you explained why I am the one most likely to be the one hiding a card nor have you explained what you think my motive is.

Umm... yes I have jake, what the fuck. Did you read the post above that you quoted? Did you read any of them? Look, I'll quote them in chronological order for you.

The only person with any real gain from keeping it hidden is Jake. Jal has another purple too but since she's already got a zillion (6) cards it doesn't seem likely she's got yet more.

3) You being stupid? You don't gain from somebody else hiding the card,

you

gain the most from hiding the card. You and Jal both have Purples, that much has been claimed. 1 card + 1 card = 2 cards and a power attained. Jal has already received one card last night and one card this day, he can't have another unless GNR is using some weird system for it. That leaves you with the most to gain from hiding it.

What's bullshit is your comprehension skills. You are the better suspect for hiding the card because there is a clear motive for you to do so, one we could have applied to Jal also but we can rule out because of card's she's received. You're not the only suspect, you're not instantly scum now, you're just the only one with a valid reason to hide it. I mean, what reason does anyone, regardless of alignment, have of hiding a card that has no ability to them at the moment? Especially since we've already had all sorts of power roles claimed now. there's no rationale. Again, to reiterate so it hopefully sinks in, that does not make you the only one that may hide it, it gives a reason for you to be the most likely.

If you can not grasp from those posts that I think (as of the original post in #2166) that you have the MOST (note that word, it does not mean only) motive for hiding it, then you will never comprehend. It should be easy to understand. Guille got it. You with two purple cards = hidden power. Otherwise, the only other motive available is that scum is hiding it just be to be scummy, its seems rather counter-intuitive.

Yes, I think you are genuine and are telling the truth about only having one purple card but also, I think you're been an absolute idiot over this.

Yes, I'm going to bring it up again (the (after original #2088) because if no one responds then how am I to know they've seen it or understood that post? Communication Jake, it's important.

I felt no need to list the actual name of my card, I mean why does it really matter? The powers of a singular card are already known because Jal would have told us if his singular card had power. You obviously knew that singular card had no power cause you listed it as such under Jal's name. If it had a power i certainly would have shared it but it didn't so i didn't think I had to say "the purple card had no power"

I already mentioned why it matters, its information and one less thing scum can bullshit claim on tomorrow. It becomes even more important now because if you'll notice jal's posts below, her claim is that having two railroad cards gives her the ability to investigate who has what card. A deed-cop.

If you didn't mention your street name, Jal could have gone into night two and investigated yourself. That'd be a bit of a fuck up, no? Communication Jake, it's important.

And see what happens when you bring something up again? We get this resolution. I feel much happier going into the night knowing now that the card will be found. Someone, somewhere just read the last day's posts and crapped their pants. We should be able to smell it day 4.

Providing of course Jal is telling the truth. There is that caveat.

Sweet. Safety watches Jal. Jake watches safety.

Fuck safety. I'm watching who I want and not that moron

And the problem with is you're prepared to game-throw because you're being petulant. If you're still going to be this stupid and act like a baby then I really don't mind 180-ing and trying to lynch you.

Game Throwing > LaL

[SafetyDance]

Okay, I don't feel like reading the walls anymore.

Someone straight-up answer me: Is there a card which is unclaimed and do we know its name?

Or did Jake just claim to have some prior unclaimed card?

Okay, so everyone should know by now that not claiming makes that person most likely scum and they should have claimed. This is all I have been waiting for, thanks.

Right so, 2 railroads give the ability to search for a specific card and see who has it. Yesterday I used it on boardwalk and saw that TBG had it last night.

Tonight, I am looking for Virginia Ave and that person who has it is automatically scum. Please make sure I am protected/watched, whatever. We get scum tomorrow.

I take it this last post was what you were alluding to in Post #2122? Otherwise it would be nice to get that response.

As for #2180, it is kinda important you read those posts, its not terribly verbose and considering we're not really that busy it should be fairly easy read.

Post #2089 is the imoprtant one, which I thought you had read (thus your response in 2180).

[SafetyDance]

None of that explains why I'm the most likely other than you just picking a name out of a hat which is basically what it looks like you did.

Not watching you isn't game throwing. You aren't a town read of mine anymore so it's anti-town to watch someone I don't think is town.

Yes it does! Omfg. What is it that you can not comprehend? Are you just deliberately trying to be frustrating?

I mentioned, SEVERAL FUCKING TIMES, that the person with the most motive, thus the suspicion, with the most reason to hide that particular card is you BECAUSE having two purples would grant YOU an extra ability and that would be at an advantage for scum to hide to that. The only person that thinks that is you. It's really not fucking rocket science and its not that much of a leap to get to that conclusion. There were no magic hats, no fucking darts thrown at a board. So no, its not basically what I did.

As town, not following a town-agreed upon plan because you don't like someone is game-throwing. Especially at such a critical point of the day.

I don't know how trying to repeat myself over and over again on the off-chance it might actually sink in and you understand is anti-town but whatever.

[SafetyDance]

Lmao at the wolves baying at the door.

Now we seem to have reached an understanding, what are the town/scum flip plans? Can someone refer to a table/post from before or make another one up?

Once done, I'll put my vote on Mehdi, Guille why did you unvote?

GNR, I'd hold off bringing a replacement in if we're about to lynch that slot. Thanks.

[SafetyDance]

Do you recall reading this Jake?

Can you, or someone else, expand on the differences in 2 mylo lynches over 2 lylos lynches and how its an advantage? The way I see it at the moment is there is no differences, you still have to get the lynch right regardless.

Difference between a 2 kill MyLo and a 2 kill Lylo. By 2 kill I am refering to the ability to choose who the Vig Kills.

Mylo is 6 players, 2 of which are mafia. Lylo is 5 players, 2 of which are mafia. If we can kill two players during a day/night transition, in Lylo you cannot miss and hit town. So, if the Lynch is on Scum, then the vig should do nothing, and if the Lynch is on town, the Vig can do nothing.

On Mylo, If you hit Scum in the Lynch, thye vig will either hit scum and win or reduce the play to 3 people. If the Lynch is on Town, then the vig can attempt to shot the Scum and reach a 3 player LyLo. Without the Vig we would lose on Mylo if we lynch town.

I think it's a pretty good explanation, especially since Jal's new information. It's don't vig kill tonight so you can vig kill tomorrow and make sure Jal is there at 3-person lylo.

At least, that's how I see it.

Appreciate the table, so that's the if town flip? What do we do if he flips scum, free for all? :/

[SafetyDance]

And the plan if he's scum? Obv Jal would have free reign to shoot who she pleases then but what are we doing with the rest?

Day 5 would be even easier to connect the dots if its only yourself (generalised, not Jake specifically) vs Jal and someone else.

[SafetyDance]

Once done, I'll put my vote on Mehdi, Guille why did you unvote?

I did not want an accidental Hammer, especially while discussing the missing Purple card. I was just being cautious. Not that it matters at this point.

I just see a problem now there's 3 of us and only 2 votes needed to hammer, also noting that Jake can hammer it any time he wants. No problem, just as long as no one tries to use it to weasel out of suspicion tomorrow.

[SafetyDance]

Player	Power	Target
Jake	Watcher	Safety
Safety	Watcher	Jal
Safety	Tracker	Cheery
Cheery	Tracker	Jake
Xis	Cop	Safety
Jal	Vig	guille

I like this for if Medhi flips scum. It tests Jake/Cherry/Safety. If Medhi flips scum, LM is auto town. So, it ends up leaving Jal and Xis as untested. It should be an easy game if Medhi flips scum.

If Medhi flips town, considering that it would leave us at a disadvantage. I'd have to say that Jal shooting is bad, especially if she hits town. That said, I'd rather she shoot LM than me, because I know I am town and everybody else is an asset. I see no reason why Xis will cop Safety, if Medhi is town. Jal needs absolute protection (which is covered by the table. and that will give us scum for sure. Xis should cop me/LM or Cheery. If Xis is copping Cheery then Safety should track Xis not Cheery. If Xis is copping me/LM then Safety tracking Cheery is fine.

@

Anyone

: can somebody compile the results for actions and results for Night 1 and 2. I want to make sure of something.

Why is Mhork auto-town if Mehdi flips scum?

Otherwise I'm fine with that I guess. Although as someone who was concerned about themselves getting killed before, putting yourself up to be shot in this scenario is interesting.

Xis copping me on the if-town plan would be great actually, I'd love to hear his result, especially if Jal doesn't shoot.

[SafetyDance]

I don't know if everyone said their day 2 results

N1

Safety watched Jal and saw cheery, he also tracked mehndi and he went no where.

Cheery tracked UN and he went no where. He card counted Jal.

I watched Jal and saw cheery

Mehndi supposedly doc'd TBG and can't remember if he did anything else.

Jal & Xis I don't think did anything.

N2

I watched safety and saw nothing.
Jal found blue card with TBG
Mehndi self watched
Safety watched cheery and saw nothing I think. Can't remember who he tracked and his result.
Cheery tracked mhork who went no where
Xis cop'd Jal

I may be missing stuff, this is solely off memory

More or less right. I tracked Mehdi again last night as per scum plan. Xis' claim night one was investigating Baby iirc. Mehdi's claim was that his 50% self-watcher didn't get a result both nights.

[SafetyDance]

...would be nice to here from Jal too (and others but lets be realistic...)

[SafetyDance]

Vote:Mehdi

'

Suppose since I hammered last time, someone else can get the glory this time. And insurance jic I'm not around on deadline, weekend being what it is.

[SafetyDance]

Well Jal was reading, I guess that doesn't mean typing.

Still think Xis is being myopic, static and one dimensional with his reads when he bothers to show up and its amusing that its very rarely only to snipe from the sidelines before slinking back into the shadows but hey, that's for another day I guess.

Meanwhile, it's pretty much confirmed now to me that GNR is playing a game of monopoly with our pieces. Not sure if it is just to determine when we get chance/cc cards though or anything else but there's a game happening none the less. Hope my piece is the cannon.

[SafetyDance]

I hope you'll do that, will be good to find out. Could be someone having a nervous night.

Important thing though is for your thoughts on the vig shooting if mehdi is town discussion because you know, it involves you.

[SafetyDance]

What about the lylo/mylo situation and whether or not its better to vig kill tonight or wait till the next one.

Read all of this:

Do you recall reading this Jake?

Can you, or someone else, expand on the differences in 2 mylo lynches over 2 lylos lynches and how its an advantage? The way I see it at the moment is there is no differences, you still have to get the lynch right regardless.

Difference between a 2 kill MyLo and a 2 kill Lylo. By 2 kill I am refering to the ability to choose who the Vig Kills.

Mylo is 6 players, 2 of which are mafia. Lylo is 5 players, 2 of which are mafia. If we can kill two players during a day/night transition, in Lylo you cannot miss and hit town. So, if the Lynch is on Scum, then the vig should do nothing, and if the Lynch is on town, the Vig can do nothing.

On Mylo, If you hit Scum in the Lynch, thye vig will either hit scum and win or reduce the play to 3 people. If the Lynch is on Town, then the vig can attempt to shot the Scum and reach a 3 player LyLo. Without the Vig we would lose on Mylo if we lynch town.

I think it's a pretty good explanation, especially since Jal's new information. It's don't vig kill tonight so you can vig kill tomorrow and make sure Jal is there at 3-person lylo.

At least, that's how I see it.

Appreciate the table, so that's the if town flip? What do we do if he flips scum, free for all? :/

somehow I missed this but I still think town has a better chance of narrowing down scum tomorrow if our pool of suspects is smaller. Having to pick 2 scum out of a pool of 5 people is harder than trying to pick 2 scum out of a pool of 4.

The vig is going to shoot either way so I guess it comes down to personal preference. Guile wants us to wait because he doesn't want to die and nothing more, statistically being in lylo tomorrow instead of mylo is better for town in my opinion

[SafetyDance]

No one visited Jal and Cheery didn't go anywhere.

Trying to make sense of things now.

[SafetyDance]

I did not get role blocked. I used all of my cards to be sure of it in case it became a possibility. Meaning, scum probably no-killed.

Many reasons:

They want to make it look like there isn't a vig.

They realized due to how Mehdi set things up that they'd be easily caught killing someone

Bigger town pool means more people for town to consider.

I'm curious as to why scum killing the same target hasn't even been mentioned. Lord Mhork could have been killed undetected.

Given all the flipsu suspicions are safety/cheery just cause the whole utility card stuff. I brought this up way back and nobody listened.

Lurker claimed his card was watcher but later messed up and claimed tracker. He also claimed it was 1 shot and neither claimed their tracker cards were 1 shots.

It's a nice ploy but given Poe, it makes sense.

Last night I got 1 orange card, this day phase I got the 2nd orange card. I have the 50% chance to self watch.

Nobody visited safety.

I'm not sure how it would make sense or why you would want to believe confirmed scum is telling the truth? I've used all my cards since night one, they haven't disappeared. Also you have a watcher card. You know which cards give watcher.

No, explain your 'at least two' comment.

Directed at xis. Sorry.

Lol at you trying to start a discussion with Xis. If we left you two at it for the rest of the day phase you wouldn't get onto an extra page.

Hello.

Cards received:

-Virginia Ave (Purple) : Does nothing
-Illinois Ave (Red): In a Neighbourhood

Results received:

-Copped SafetyDance: Inno
-Card-counted Mhork: Mhork has at least 2 deeds

Nobody visited safety.

What are your other results Jake? I'm interested in the contradiction.

Oh look, there's Virginia. So is he trying to claim it as from mehdi because hmmm

[SafetyDance]

Distribution of Killed Cards

Night 1: (2) SafetyDance, guille2015
Day 2: (4) jal, TehBrawlGuy, MonkeyMan5765, CheeryDog
Night 2: (3) jal, TehBrawlguy,

?????

Day 3: (4) jal, SafetyDance, Jake From State Farm, Xisiqomelir

Night 3: (2) jal, Jake From State Farm
Day 4: (3) Lord Mhork, Jake From State Farm, Xisiqomelir

MISSING:

Purple, last card received during either night 2/day 3 depending on Xis

or Jake

and when they recieved their new cards

So doesn't matter when specifically but Xis got one card in the night (2), one card in the day (3).

Oh, lol at Jal getting a squillion cards. She's going to bankrupt us all.

[SafetyDance]

Player	Power	Target	Result
Jake	Watcher	Safety	Didn't see anything
Safety	Watcher	Jal	Didn't see anything
Safety	Tracker	Cheery	Didn't see anything
Cheery	Tracker	Jake	Didn't see anything
Xis	Cop	Safety	Inno'd
Jal	Vig	guille	Pop pop

That's the table...I think I need to see it graphically, my head hurts, trying to figure out all these didn't see shit messages. Looking like Xis v Jake though.

[SafetyDance]

That hmmm link doesn't work.

Also re: my post about you two, that's just me being honest with how I felt.

So now we have cheery saying I went nowhere but safety saying cheery went nowhere. Xis saying he has an inno on safety yet nobody visited safety.

It's missing a backslash after net, sorry must've deleted it.

Yeah it is a bit popcorny.

Jake, when you said no one visited me, what was the message given?

[SafetyDance]

@Mod: Does watcher watching count as a visit?

~No. Will explain post game~

permission to paraphrase what you told me?

~No. I'll do it now.~
~As I told Jake when he first PMed me (I had forgotten about this) I told him watcher doesn't count as a visit because I see a vist counts as a visit if someone has to meet with someone. For watcher, and tracker, it's an observation result, not interaction~
~More postgame or dead thread when you're there~

This be arrr problem. Obs results aren't visits. So only contention is you or Xis.

[SafetyDance]

Right, so how is Cheery scum for a tracking result which is an observation (as defined by mod)? Only conflict I see is you/Xis.

Also, riddle me this Batman, but we've got a town-confirmed player saying he went to another player with a one-shot doc that was tracked as not going anywhere. That is a problem we need to consider whilst assessing any night actions.

Night one and the one kill last night is bugging me also.

P-edit: Well yeah, that's stuff we have to take up with the mod post-game.

[SafetyDance]

Graphical representation of the night actions

Spoiler:

[SafetyDance]

Night 1,

I

got no result on tracking mehdi.

[SafetyDance]

So why did Mehdi keep claiming he used the doc card?

Also, its easy for for scum to get away with the kill, presuming there's no tampering roles, then the only people that are clear are Cheery and Jake. There is 2 mafia in the game. So unless it's Cheery and Jake together anyone else can get away with the kill. Including you if we don't trust Xis.

Xis worded it as "gaining the cop ability". Much like you gained the card-cop ability, or mehdi/jake gained the ability to self-watch.

What happened when you got a second vig card? You became a vig. What's to say with three cards you dont become a cop

[SafetyDance]

@SafetyDance

:

No, explain your 'at least two' comment.

Directed at xis. Sorry.

Lol at you trying to start a discussion with Xis. If we left you two at it for the rest of the day phase you wouldn't get onto an extra page.

For someone who whines about sniping, you're certainly quite the fan of it as a debate tactic, aren't you?

Independently of the investigation, I should probably point out to the game that you're most likely town because you cut and run as scum in my direct experience.

I love the fact that you can spend much time going through other games but can't even be bothered to engage in this game properly. And yes, I consider someone who's been in here since the start who's post count barely outstrips the moderator as not engaging consistently in the game.

It was a valid commented directed at the two of you who have barely engaged in any meaningful discussion all game. Left to your own devices the thread would become a barren wasteland. All game your MO has been to post a bunch of quote walls, post several links and then disappear into the shadows whence you came. When someone makes points towards you, you spam-quote again picking only points you want to talk about and then slink back in shadows, then two days later come back and make some pithy comment about something else.

You're meant to be the cop. What about some actual leading or strong posts. You haven't voted yet so I can only assume based on your own criteria you're not scum hunting, so what gives?

Also I wouldn't place too much stock in games with time issues but hey, whatever floats you're boat. I'm off to read Cards Against Humanity.

Oh look, there's Virginia. So is he trying to claim it as from mehdi because hmmm

There's no need to insinuate. If you're suggesting I've had Virginia since D3 instead of today as I claim, just say so. You'll be in the fine company of my other investigation. While you're at it, can you supply a reason for this nefarious concealment?

And as a hypothetical, what are your reads out of the uninvestigated side of the playerlist?

Rofl, nefarious concealment? What, you mean like in the post directly below? Haha.

Also:

Wait shh, I need to work this out. TBG had 4 cards before his death so it works out. We know TBG has gotten the vig card over night. I got the railroad. Last purple card had to be given at night

unless

scum switched when they got their cards.

Who ha

s

the missing card?

Xis.

So its pretty clear for anyone with two eyes, yeah, its out in the open you got an extra card night/day three not now. Again, anyone paying attention (the evidence of you hotlinking everywhere suggest you are in fact, at least reading this game) would have SEEN the discussion yesterday about the missing card, one that you did not mention once at all day three.

Mehdi saw the discussion, so did guille and we KNOW right now they are town, so why would they conceal getting the card, there's no town motivation for doing so. So yeah you should really answer that.

And also address the 1v1 instead of deflecting it. You can't get away with that now. It's pretty fucking important and means any other read is irrelevant atm. You have to convince us why you're not lying and why Jake is. Frankly, you're doing a shit job. I don't care that you inno'd me, I think you've been playing scummy since I first replaced in.

[SafetyDance]

That's a really stupid ability. I coulda sworn someone mentioned it counted the number of deeds.

Just more evidence you really didn't bother to read anything at all Day 2. What on earth were you doing?

Graphical representation of the night actions

Spoiler:

Holy shit, I suck with abbreviations.

P-edit: Where did #2318 come from, did not see that at all. :S

Anyway using that list Jal mhork and cheery would have to be both be scum; 6 alive = 4 town + 2 scum.

[SafetyDance]

We don't really know for sure there's no action interference here. It's not completely confirmed that we all start the day as VT or Goon with powers solely from cards and there's this:

VOTE: Safety I'll need an explanation for this eventually, but for now I just asked gnr and found out my chance protect does count as a visit so 1 vs 1 does work (I don't believe safety would be rb'd when his slot was empty at night which is the only decent explanation other then one of us is scum).

Medhi must've used the card, there's no reason for this to be falso now and I know I got a jack shitt result so there's a problem here.

Jake is confident it's a 1v1 and threw up the wifom that it doesn't matter who we lynch, if that person is town then you vig the other.

He's adamant there's no roleblocker (or something) out there too but IF Xis is town then that would mean Jake-scum is going into the night and if there's a manipulative role then they could just as easily use that on you Jal, kill someone else town and win the game.

[SafetyDance]

There is potentially 1 scenario where a RB would fit but I need to get to my computer to put it on paper to see if its plausible. I'll be home in about an hour or so

the idea I was thinking of didn't work out so yeah I stand by my opinion I don't think there is a RB. The ONLY way there is a RB is if it's one Safety/Cheery/myself because if we are all town and mafia had a RB, they could have easily picked us off by now.

Hai Jake. I was specifically vague in this post:

We don't really know for sure there's no

action interference

here. It's not completely confirmed that we all start the day as VT or Goon with powers solely from cards and there's this:

VOTE: Safety I'll need an explanation for this eventually, but for now I just asked gnr and found out my chance protect does count as a visit so 1 vs 1 does work (I don't believe safety would be rb'd when his slot was empty at night which is the only decent explanation other then one of us is scum).

Medhi must've used the card, there's no reason for this to be falso now and I know I got a jack shitt result so there's a problem here.

Jake is confident it's a 1v1 and threw up the wifom that it doesn't matter who we lynch, if that person is town then you vig the other.

He's adamant there's no roleblocker (or something) out there too but IF Xis is town then that would mean Jake-scum is going into the night and if there's a

manipulative role

then they could just as easily use that on you Jal, kill someone else town and win the game.

Because frankly, I have no fucking idea just what role it could be if there is one and it shouldn't be just defined to roleblocker. And if it is down to You/Cheery/Me then great, I've got another 50/50 scenario.

I would love for you to share your working out too, please.

[SafetyDance]

Well, I agree with Jake here.

Nuff said.

Xis gave you and I 'inno' cop reports. Aren't you concerned about lynching him and he's scum and what that would mean for you?

[SafetyDance]

Holy fuck mhork and xis where you at?

At least xis hasn't really posted on site since his last post the but mhork posted everywhere else but here yesterday.

We are near mylo/lylo situation and you are lurking? Seriously if either if you are town so help me...

Whilst we wait for Larry, Curly and Moe and have a break in the matinee, how I see this game at the moment:

Spoiler:

[SafetyDance]

Oh, and I forgot Jake's new avatar!

Spoiler:

[SafetyDance]

Busy day and I'm exhausted, will get back to this in the morrow *prod dodge*

[SafetyDance]

That's a really stupid ability. I coulda sworn someone mentioned it counted the number of deeds.

Just more evidence you really didn't bother to read anything at all

Day 2

. What on earth were you doing?

Graphical representation of the night actions

Spoiler:

Holy shit, I suck with abbreviations.

P-edit: Where did #2318 come from, did not see that at all. :S

Anyway using that list Jal mhork and cheery would have to be both be scum; 6 alive = 4 town + 2 scum.

No I didn't read anything

Day Three

. I was bored and figured the game was won, remember?

Please, commit seppuku.

Has anyone at all seen any results with their watcher/tracker roles?

Well, I agree with Jake here.

Nuff said.

Xis gave you and I 'inno' cop reports. Aren't you concerned about lynching him and he's scum and what that would mean for you?

I've had you as a town read since D1 post-Lurker scum slip. Xis should not have been investigating someone who was obviously townie. I didn't even pay attention to see what everyone else's role last night was until a few hours before deadline when I actually read the game to make my own decision. I would have changed it. What would I have to be worried about?

Post Lurker-slip? Was Robert even here then?

Yep, you've confoodled my noodle. Last post was: Post #450 (isolation #52) » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:23 pm

[SafetyDance]

I have no idea what any of these posts mean but I'm thoroughly entertained and will change my avatar when I get to a pc

Rofl you actually did this. Jake from WIFOM Farm. WIFOM Jake (that sounds more like you're an outlaw). "What are you drinking? Err...merlot?"

Yeah, basically your 1v1 with Xis full of WINE.

The cartoon, well its basically you/jal vs xis with LM appropriately sitting in the bleachers with his bff Cheery. GNR would the Ump but couldn't be bothered trying to plant his mug there.

To me, we've got a bit of yin/yang here at the moment. 3 players (jal, jake, moi) that are active and 3 (xis mdork cheery) who are cruising. Could be alignment indicative. Some people like posting less as scum because less chance of doing a lurker, but then some may like posting to appear actively doing something. *shrugs* depends on the person.

[SafetyDance]

@ xis

In vanger mafia you definitely posted more than you have here. You are averaging a post ever 1 and a 1/3 pages. This isn't anything like your town play either.

It's been busy for me this year, but I consider my posting type identical to my Vanger play, in that it focuses primarily on motive, even if the frequency has been lower.

And Xis the game started onlt about 5 hours ago so how his making him post now needed (same for robert).

I like to encourage participation in the game, I think it makes it more enjoyable for everyone.

I'm curious as to where this Lurker wagon will take us. In fact, I'm willing to help it along.

UNVOTE: Lord Mhork
VOTE: Lurker

L-3 I believe.

@Jal

: Which is the most negative reaction you have seen to this wagon? Is it telling of alignment to you?

@StrangerCoug

: I read all of Dirty Dealing, so I sort of see where you're coming from. Do you think your perceptions of that game are more or less instructive from modding it rather than playing it? I'm having trouble phrasing this but I mean could you pick up on things more subtle than salamence faking a post-restriction?

Spoiler:

[SafetyDance]

@ xis - there is no way we are both telling the truth. Nobody visited safety, I wasn't roleblocked, you claim an inno on safety

It's not possible.

Jake, Safety claimed Mehdi made

no visit

N1. That's not a "no result", that's a negative result.

And xis scum motive to claim 1 shot doc who saved no one is?

That doesn't exist either.

@SafetyDance

: What is a general description of your result's format? Is it something like "Visited: X" or "Did not visit"?

That I decided to do the action against the player mentioned but

didn't see anything.

You know what, I'm prepared to just vote you now. Not only are you playing dense, stupid, illogical and annoying but trying to reply properly to your quote walls is fucking annoying and insanely time consuming. Patience and motivation is evaporating, just want to be done with it.

[SafetyDance]

What about it? I received it last night. We all admit, I believe, that it does nothing. Please tell me why I'd hide it from town as any alignment.

No, the correct question is why would CONFIRMED TOWN Mehdi would hide it from town as town. That would be your only avenue, you're not even trying to take it.

Motivation for why someone would hide the purple was brought up before the day 3 lynch, by me, twice. You should have read it, you should be familiar with it and if Mehdi had read everything, and he played competently enough that everything he said points to that, then he would have seen it too and mentioned the extra card.

If you're asking us to trust you over conf-town then that's an easy choice to make.

[SafetyDance]

And seriously, if Jake was town, then that would mean Cheery and Mhork both are scum so you shouldn't care which one to lynch and not suggesting a no lynch.

If you think there's a manipulation role, then why would you have jake or even jal in your town reads. They have both today come out with "I haven't been roleblocked" and jake has you in a 1v1 WHICH YOU KEEP IGNORING.

Meanwhile, because of my result on Mehdi, which must've gone through day one because 1) I was successful in watching jal and 2) no evidence that he didn't use it contrary to his claim (because he's town), that is why I have been bringing it up that there could be, or has to be action interference going here. Also, I got two nights in a row of "D.S.A", if there is such a role in game then I believe I was possibly targets (or my roles?) which would indicate Jake is lying. Holy Baloney Batman, isn't he the guy counter-claiming you visited me?



Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh.

[SafetyDance]

If I was going purely based on reads and how I feel about that player then I would be up for lynching Xis or Mhork. Xis, doesn't need further explanation, Mhork has had bipolar since day one in his play and he's only starting to be active again now. In mylo.

But I'm not.

Don't trust the others, even Jal who could be close to as conf-town as possible, could have bussed for cred and could have the sole killing role if killing is indeed only available for those that hold the cards. Cheerys play, hie posts make me go "he's town" and then the next one makes me feel uneasy about him. Also trying to figure out the setup and wtf GNR has done with it is mind-numbing and frustrating.

Current Vote Count 4.01

Xisiqomelir - 1 (Lord Mhork) (L-3)
Lord Mhork - 1 (Cheery Dog) (L-3)

Not Voting: Jal, Jake from State Farm, SafetyDance

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-03-11 21:00:00)

mod, I voted xis a while back and never unvoted

Pretty sure Xis did a no-lynch vote too.

So finally a vote count and its not even right :/

[SafetyDance]

What about it? I received it last night. We all admit, I believe, that it does nothing. Please tell me why I'd hide it from town as any alignment.

It's also interesting to note here that you ask why

you

would hide it rather than why

Medhi

would have hidden it.

Pre-empted by about 40 minutes. Do you need spectacles?

[SafetyDance]

Ugh, I can't read your walls right now safety, what the fuck did you say in bullet form please?

1. You can't be bothered to read ~600 words
2. Complaining about walls only now
3. No mention of it with Xis' gigantic posts before
4. No mention of it when I multi-posted discussions/reads after being away from the thread before.
5. Lazy town on mylo is terrible

[SafetyDance]

Deed Counter Owners please announce who you investigated all nights. Thanks.

[SafetyDance]

Xis used his on LM, so just Jal.

If you didn't understand the parts you read Jake then mention those parts and I might try to clear it up for you but I'm not going to help you be lazy.

/||---------------------------------------||\

So here's a bridge, get over it.

[SafetyDance]

I was about half way through this thread then went back to re-read the first few pages after the n1 kills were announced and BS + UN flipped. Now I've also read the last two pages before the lynch so I found out that Lurker slipped and found the post with a bit of digging.

So I'm going to put some thoughts down on the original Lurker wagon whilst it's all fresh because I'm horrible at note taking and remembering things so I want it posted, then I can come back and see if I feel any different. Apologies if its stuff already covered.

L-1 wagon was:

Agent_Ireland (unvoted 1st (after claim))

Jal (unvoted 3rd)
Xisiqomelir (unvoted 4th)
Lord Mhork

Mogadishu Jones (unvoted 2nd)

StrangerCoug (CheeryDog)

Jake also labelled Lurker scum but didn't put his vote there until scum slip was caught.
Mogadishu was actually on the wagon, off the wagon, on the wagon then off after claim.

Two fellow scum and the SK were on the first Lurker wagon? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Referencing the VC and the L-1 vote.

Vote:Jake

[SafetyDance]

There is a glitch in the matrix.

Who here got a card at the *beginning* of D1?

On Safety's list it doesn't list.

What do you mean? Is there an error in that post? If so, where?

Was going to update it for the day at some stage, would like to know if there are any errors. And why no one spotted them earlier :/

Post #2088 it is people, I'll have another look through myself too.

[SafetyDance]

Is this what you were talking about Jal?

Spoiler: Jal

Card #1

Card Type:

PURPLE

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: None
Received:

At Start

Card #2

Card Type:

RAILROAD

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability:

Unknown

Received: At Start

Card #3

Card Type:

LIGHT BLUE

("light green")
Street Name:

Unknown

Ability: Deed Counter (=> 2)
Received: Night 2

Card #4

Card Type:

DARK BLUE

Street Name:

Park Place

Ability: Vigilante
Received: Day 2

Card #5

Card Type:

RAILROAD

Street Name:

Unknown

Ability:

Unknown

Received: Night 2

Card #6

Card Type:

DARK BLUE

Street Name:

Boardwalk

Ability: Vigilante
Received: Day 3

Card 3 should have been "At Start". It was likely a copypasta error from CD's card. I knew you had three at the start:

Spoiler: working out

Name/Total/D1/D2/D3
Cheery 4 3/1/0
Guille 3 2/1/0
JakeFSF 3 2/0/1
Jal 6

3

/1/2
LMhork 2 2/0/0
Mehdi 2 2/0/0
Safety 4 2/1/1
Xis 3 2/0/1

Monkey 2/1/0
TBG 2/1/0


Lurker 2/0/0
Baby 2/0/0
UN 2/0/0

Totals 28/28/27

[SafetyDance]

Safety, I have B&O railroad, so now I have 3, not 2. Remember?

About time I get a new card. >.<
I have B&O Railroad.

So there's been only one night kill. That's interesting. Rereading Cheery Dog.

Mhork, if you read those posts in which I was responding to Jal, you would have seen the posting linking to the lists I made on Day 3. Which is before today.. So what's where all the quotes come from, otherwise you must think that I think Mehdi and Guille are still alive. As it stands at teh moment, all cards are accounted before. They weren't yesterday.

And Xis, as Jake explained he meant three cards in total, for anyone who has been paying attention all game this would be quite obvious. Especially if they had read the posts outlining who had what, or seen the discussions about the railroads previously. Which is at odds for someone who continually mass-quotes and dredges up old comments.

Unless you are thinking that there's only two railroads. In which case, you really to look hard at a Monopoly board

[SafetyDance]

Since you all are all chickenshit sitting on your asses, here I'll help the day progress.

vote: jake from State Farm

When I flip town, shoot xis tonight.

Looking back xis/cheery doesn't make sense so no idea who the partner is.

See you guys post game.

And wow, self vote from Jake. WTF. No discussion about anything, no attempt to comment just as soon as he gets a vote on himself he decides to self-vote?

You're not really helping along the day's progress either. I think I've mentioned it before but yeah, there are passengers here. I mean look at Bonnie and Clyde above, their whole contribution for the day (24hrs) is to discuss LM's cards. Least Xis gave a reason.

It's frustrating, especially since we're at mylo and with little sense of who's who despite all these roles. Have to give scum some credit for that, but there's 3 other town so they're helping this current situation along.

Given that I think that scum, yes, are being competent which would mean reading this thread, they would know that Xis was at L-2 for a long time and would definitely quick-hammer it.

So I'm definitively ruling out Jal-Dog as a scum team, so that's one combination less to work with.

[SafetyDance]

No discussion? Are you fucking insane? I've explained my case over and over.

We are in 1 v 1. There is no other fucking lynch today but me or xis. Anyone voting somebody that's not xis or myself needs to pick one. You stalling going over the cards is wasting time.

Xis lied about having a purple card (confirmed by Jal)
Xis claims to have a result on you but I say nobody visited you.
I claim I wasn't role blocked nor do I think we have one (already explained why )

I literally have nothing else to say unless you just want me to repeat myself

Now fuck off you fucking asshole. The next time someone asks you a favor, don't be a dickwad about it.

Since Sunday Night and between the self-vote, the only thing you've commented on is that you're on your phone and want bullet points because you're too lazy in that time period (2 days) to actually post something.

Again, you refuse to read. It was Jal who mentioned the card, I asked her a question and both LM and Xis have made a comment sense about them. Please, do yourself a favor and actually engage properly in this game.

Again, repeating myself, your self-vote just looks exceedingly derpy.

Instead of getting all lizard-brain, try to emphasise with the rest of town. We have to try and figure out between you two. You're both not really doing each other favors and I think you're more than likely wrong about their being a manipulator in the game.

Otherwise you should be lynching me for supposedly lying about Mehdi. Which I know I haven't and no one seems to disagree there.

Yes, the missing card day three that suddenly Xis is now claiming does need to be looked at, it's been mentioned several times.

[SafetyDance]

CD, a quick-hammer with one of them being a role blocker or redirectioner on a town wagon would mean instant win through night.

Yes, one of them may have been already on it, thus ruling out yourself and Jal.

[SafetyDance]

Replace out then if you're not going to bother to play properly and want to give up. I'd rather play with someone that doesn't want to give up thanks.

The rest, coming from someone who doesn't know your alignment is sheer WIFOM. What do scum gain from going against the plans or making themselves stand out? Saying one of you should be dead is something you could make as scum.

If you're right and there's no manipulative role then the game should be easy and whichever one of you is lynched and you turn up town then jal should just be able to shoot the other.

[SafetyDance]

It is now Day 2.

~SafetyDance replaces Robert2424~

So you did a night action while your slot was empty?

I replaced in during the night, GNR gave me the role pm and all the cards were in it.

Why don't you ask him?

Well, it only took nearly 7 weeks to clear that one up.

Glad the self-vote is gone. Really it's on us other "townies" to discuss who to vote for, or whether not the whole thing is wrong. Eight days in and we have on of the participants not even admitting he is in a 1v1.

So are you entertaining a manipulation role now?

[SafetyDance]

Replace out then if you're not going to bother to play properly and want to give up. I'd rather play with someone that doesn't want to give up thanks.

[SafetyDance]

If I'm scum, you would also not chastise me to "play properly" either

Because there's no logical reason for someone town to want others to "play properly"? Right...

Prod dodge post, I've read up to Jake's derpiness at end of page 97. Will have to read rest later

[SafetyDance]

Okay, sorry I took longer to get back to this than I thought I would.

@SafetyDance

: I will address you first because I'm assuming you to be town, but I find your tone and attitude is severely damaging to my enjoyment of the game. I know for my part I've certainly been no innocent either in that regard, so I am going to lay off digging at you for style issues in hopes that town can win this game. If you wish to choose to continue to try and provoke fights, that is your prerogative, but I will ignore all such segments of your posts and respond purely to game-related content.

In addition, since you don't like interleaving quotes, I am going to write your entire section Mehdi-style, without them. I'll also separate this part of the post, directed at solely at you, from the rest of town's as a further concession.

I believe this should be a comprehensive response to all the game-related portions of your posts since my #2372:

-Do you believe your "did not see anything" result with regard to Mehdi's Doctoring of TBG is related to Jake's result from watching you last night?
-I have already provided what I believe to be a plausible mechanism for Mehdi forgetting he had Virginia Ave. based on an experience I have already had with the numerous PMs sent by this game. I have no interest in hypothesizing up further ones. If you believe this to be a scum plan on my part, I would ask you, again, why I would attempt to hide a powerless card from town as

any

alignment.
-The neighbourhood QT is very telling of Cheery and Mhork not being of the same alignment. Ergo, I would like to investigate further to ensure we lynch correctly, as this is MyLo in the likely case of 2 scum.
-I have lost my vote for today, so the votecount is correct in showing me not voting
-I deed-counted Mhork last night, the only night I was able to use my light green
-Jake's self-vote, although not pro-town makes no sense from a scum perspective, in my opinion. He really is convinced that he's 1v1ing me, and that as he's town, I must be scum.
-I am not acknowledging this 1v1 because I believe Jake to be town.

And you think playing with yourself is an enjoyable experience? Your quote spew style, of hardly interacting with town, crazy scenarios that only you are seeing and myopic opinions, hardly make you Captain Crusader yourself. You hid behind a large vocabulary but its completely at odds to what you're saying.

If I'm Town, Jake is town, you're town and if only one of Mhork/CD is scum then that leaves Jal has the only other player you suspect. Someone you supposedly cleared. WTF? Why would you insinuate this rather then just say it? You're being half-arsed about this. This is the perception from you and it consistent with how you've played the game and why I don't trust anything you say.

This is a game where people CAN LIE. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that those here now are good at it. Why should I take your word for anything?

You're plausible mechanism:

I don't think Mehdi lied deliberately. As part of his general disinterest in the game, he probably let it slip his mind since the card is powerless on its own.

Can you explain any possible scum motive for hiding a powerless card?

Is in no way a closed case. Mehdi, who played strong enough to plan night actions, was unable to tell us at ANY point of the day, especially when he had seen us talk about it, that he got another card. Why should we buy that story? We've been talking about cards since Day 2, you receive them upon imoprtant times in the game (Night Pahse, Day Phase) and again, been talked about since day 2. It's not something you would expect clear town to forget.

As for Jake, he's been wifom-ing hard since putting you in a 1v1. Also, read my quote from the Lurker wagon. If you think he's town then Lurker was originally double-bussed and had the SK on the wagon. That's...wow.

So that's the problem, you're playing your own little game, with your own theories, you don't seem to be even bothering to convince people of them or even bother talking about the others, with yours being the One True Way™.

ADDENDUM:

Why you couldn't have just mentioned this earlier in the day?

@Cheery Dog

:

@Xis, where would your vote be if you still had it?
Also presuming for a moment you're telling the truth; you have a town read on jake, clears on jal and safety, and a town v scum read on me/mhork, so are you thinking one scum left it godfather?

No Lynch. Aside from the possibility of investigation-immune roles, I've also been wondering if I have a non-normal sanity with only 2/3 Yellows. If I continue to investigate without guilties, I'd suspect that to be the case, have to discard all results, and going purely off play and motive my scumteam would be Mhork+{Safety,You,Jal}.

Who is the most likely team should all your results be sane?

[SafetyDance]

Let me rephrase: Who received a card at the beginning of D2? Not during the night. At the beginning?

So I'm definitively ruling out Jal-Dog as a scum team, so that's one combination less to work with.

If you're even thinking of me in a scum team, it can only be Xis as he declared to have an innocent on me. Why are you going on about scum teams involving me with other people? Looks like you're trying to be useful while actually doing crap all. In fact, it's more likely for us to be scum together because he didn't get hammered. That can easiy be one scum being bandwagoned and one scum off or on it himself.

Also I find people who 1v1 are townies.

NL is the only way we're going tonight.

/tilt

Trying to be fucking useful? As opposed to yourself who (as of this post) has done nothing but agree with Jake and ask about Day 2 cards. That high horse you're standing on? It's not fucking real. If you have some grand master plan then mention it instead of just criticising others. I spent hours on this game writing up things such as that list only to have people ignore them. What fucking more can I do?

You're not conf town either. A scum slip spot and claiming vig does not guarantee you to be Town. Xis inno'd me too so there could be other scenarios where scum especially with a role manipulator. Bottom line is, I DON'T KNOW. So if I see something that rules out a combination, then that's more POE I can note. We've also only had 2 kills max a day, that is making me uneasy because it hasn't been explained (it may be impossible too but still).

I'm still not getting at what the problem with the Day 2 cards is. It should be all on the table unless there's a text problem, like your Deed-count card which should say 'At Start' I think.

Because yourself and Cheery have 3 cards, we know UN and BS had 2 each. That's 4 cards. Guille and I received cards during the night before from Lurker, everyone else got theirs after day 2 started. Those four people are Jal, TBG, Cheery and Monkey.

So what's the problem there?

If I'm scum, you would also not chastise me to "play properly" either

Because there's no logical reason for someone town to want others to "play properly"? Right...

Prod dodge post, I've read up to Jake's derpiness at end of page 97. Will have to read rest later

If you think I'm scum, you wouldn't care. You would just use my derpiness to lynch me as examples why I must be scum.

Which is why I used it for the case against you to put my vote there.

Good to see for all your claim of ignoring me, you've been cheery picking the posts you want to read, instead of the important ones. But you're right, why would town bother to read?

[SafetyDance]

UNVOTE

What's the main benefits of the NL? I'm wary because its being suggested by three players I by no means trust, or am starting not too. Is it to cuff Jal and force Mafia to shoot?

[SafetyDance]

You didn't make a case on me to begin with. You voted me solely based off the vote count which in itself is wifom cause you could be the scum off the wagon and you are trying to set me up. You were questioning xis than all of a sudden switched it up and voted me.

The whole "2 scum and the SK on the wagon"

is lame because the SK has no bearing at all

. Also xis was on the wagon early and it was for a BS reason, it wasn't even because he suspected lurker but because he wanted to see where the wagon was going. If cheery was scum, I already pointed out earlier that SC had no reason to vote lurker other than blatant sheeping. If SC thought that lurker was getting lynched he absolutely would bus for town cred. That's what experienced players do.

Also I'm not cherry picking what I'm reading, nice boldface lie there

That doesn't make the point is suddenly meaningless! It still means if you're town, fmpov he was bussed by two scum. It's too damn convenient. Please reference more than one mini-theme games with a 3-scum team where both partners were on a their partner in the first wagon of the day. One was on there, know that for sure but two?

It's not WIFOM because the Case is Jake v Xis. That's why I am looking at you because I have to consider which one of you is lying. That VC helps.

Oh and you must have missed all this:

Spoiler:

Jake is confident it's a 1v1 and threw up the wifom that it doesn't matter who we lynch, if that person is town then you vig the other.

He's adamant there's no roleblocker (or something) out there too but IF Xis is town then that would mean Jake-scum is going into the night and if there's a manipulative role then they could just as easily use that on you Jal, kill someone else town and win the game.

Yeah, basically your 1v1 with Xis full of WINE.

1. You can't be bothered to read ~600 words
2. Complaining about walls only now
3. No mention of it with Xis' gigantic posts before
4. No mention of it when I multi-posted discussions/reads after being away from the thread before.
5. Lazy town on mylo is terrible

Xis used his on LM, so just Jal.

If you didn't understand the parts you read Jake then mention those parts and I might try to clear it up for you but I'm not going to help you be lazy.

Selective. Reading.