Mini 1404 - Monopoly Mafia - Game Over

[Xisiqomelir]

@SafetyDance

:

TBG and CD have as of yet, claimed if those cards have contained any power (leave that for now) but we have Jal and Monkey both claiming to have gotten vig cards. This means that, presuming Baby or UN didn't have both cards, they'd have had one each. If scum killed like they do every game, it means one didn't shoot and one did. Using Cheery Dog's tracking of UN, he didn't go anywhere so that would mean Baby killed UN and UN didn't shoot, whilst scum killed Baby.

That's the scenario I see based on the claims ("facts") we have.

Anything wrong with it?

Plenty.

1. You assume that there is only one scum faction.
2. You assume at least one town vig used their power.
3. You assume that there was no role interference by either scum denial or town protective.

Assuming that the expensive properties actually do give vig powers (this I consider true) I still think that most likely neither vig shot, the SK killed UN and mafia (or only very slightly possibly, a vig) killed Baby Spice.

@Mehdi2277

:

To emphasize the protection aspect of it.

Your equanimity is acceptable. I'll set aside this fillip.

And tbg either scum are dumb are they already know who to shoot. The worth of keeping town reads hidden to block scum shooting people most trusted isn't worth it. Are docs just randomly guessing who to protect as well? And does becoming scum make it impossible to tell who looks more town then others?

I am opposed to massclaim today. It is far too early in the game.

Also, this is ridiculous:

VOTE: guille

NumberQ was town.

Sorry for being so late to the party, but I'm all caught up now.

I have one question: Why did Lurker's claim make so many people back off? So, what, he says he's a watcher and suddenly you believe him?

What about his post-claim actions changed your mind?

Also, take a look at the mini-theme queue, at the post that introduces Monopoly Mafia. I didn't find this info in the first post of this thread. It says that deeds are randomized AFTER alignments are given. Lurker could be a watcher, but also scum.

Lurker:

Before the claim, his content amounted to an analysis of his own wagon (though unless I read it wrong he didn't even supply any opinions of his own), a case on Mhork (which is weak, but that's already been discussed), and a few statements that almost sound like the beginnings of some investigation but stop before they go anywhere (see: 76, 89).

Then he claimed, and for some reason people forgot that the game explicitly stated that cards (ie, powers) are randomized after alignment assignments, meaning alignment has nothing to do with powers. On top of that, the claim was strange because he waited until someone specifically asked him about it to mention his Watcher role.

Post-claim Lurker has been IIoA and a promise to look at the SC issue, though he's posted since that promise without having looked at the issue.

....

So yeah Lurker should be lynched.

VOTE: Lurker

That's well ahead of either Lurker's slip in #656 or Jal's catch in #674.

@Guille

: To be frank, I didn't think Baby Spice's reads merited discussion. I considered her behaviour around the extant/imaginary "notebook" to be highly suspicious.

MonkeyMan576

: Your vote on me is rank survivalism. In fact, most of your recent posting after being wagonned is rank survivalism.

hammering me would be a bad idea. I'm town so as far as I'm aware my cards are distributed among those on my lynch. So I'm guessing Cherry Dog is scum. This is a scum-like risk, not a town-like risk.

People should unvote me unless they want Boardwalk in the hands of ScumDog and his cohorts.

ScumCherry hamming would allow Boardwalk to possibly change hands from town to mafia. I haven't done anything scummy, besides not having a lot of time to answer questions. CheeryDog HAS done something specifically scummy now.

UNVOTE: Cheery Dog
VOTE: MonkeyMan576

That should be L-1 again.

@Mod

: Please correct post #0. It shows SafetyDance replacing into two slots, 3 and 8, when it should be just 8, with guille replacing into 3. Also, new VC please.

[Jal]

I actually want a mock vig lynch please.

[Jake from State Farm]

I won't participate in a mock lynch.

[Xisiqomelir]

I actually want a mock vig lynch please.

I am opposed.

[Lord Mhork]

Short post because I must leave. I won't participate in a mock lynch, and I'm still cool with Monkey getting the rope. I'll need to reread xisquellomier or however his name is spelled.

[Jal]

Okay, I am shooting from a list including all opposed with Mhork included no matter what.

[Xisiqomelir]

Okay, I am shooting from a list including all opposed with Mhork included no matter what.

Do as you please, but why posture?

[Jake from State Farm]

You should shoot who you think is scum or who's a detriment to town. You definitely sound like a SK to me now.

Go ahead and shoot me, just be ok with ridicule post game for your inability to grow a pair.

[Cheery Dog]

I actually want a mock vig lynch please.

My votes would go to either Mehdi or Brawl as people I think are scum.
I'm also fine with you killing one of the people you indicated earlier, Neither Mhork or Xis have been appearing as town today as they were when I read day 1, but they both do still lean town for me from that.

[Jal]

Oh Jakey-pooh, you keep on acting like I care what you think about me. Sorry Jake, but I'm a lesbian.

I already made it clear who I think is scum and who I'll probably kill. I want others to indicate who they want.

If you think I am the SK, oh please vote for me and then we can have a lovely post-game laugh over how stupid you are. Unless you're scum and somehow accomplish a lynch on me (and you won't). Bravo.

[Jal]

You are really going to have to explain to me how you are voting Monkey over me while having this SK fetish for me since we are both claiming the same role.

[TehBrawlGuy]

What's the reasoning behind not doing a mock lynch, anyway?

[Jake from State Farm]

I am not voting you cause nobody else will, so it's pointless. I mean yeah I could easily change my vote to you but that won't accomplish anything.

@ Teh - I'm against it because it's stupid. here is the thing, a SK (or scum for that matter) pretending to be a vig wants to make sure they shoot the "right person" so they don't get flack for shooting wrong. Where as a real vig will trust their own judgement and choose based off their own reads and what other people they think are town would want. If they don't feel like they can still choose the right person, THEY DON'T FUCKING SHOOT ANYONE.

[Jake from State Farm]

and Jal, if you turn out to not be scum or SK, I will gladly take any ridicule you or anyone else wants to direct my way because 1. this is just the ineterwebz and I will still be able to sleep at night and 2. a real vig would use their own scum hunting to decide and not say "well anyone who disagrees with me is added to the list of potential shooting victims" like you basically did. That's the most absurd thing ever.

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

Current Vote Count 2.05

MonkeyMan576 - 5 (TehBrawlGuy, Lord Mhork, Jal, Jake From State Farm, Xisiqomelir) (L-1)

Mehdi2277 - 2 (SafetyDance, Cheery Dog) (L-4)
Xisiqomelir - 2 (guille2015, MonkeyMan576) (L-4)
guilles2015 - 1 (Mehdi2277) (L-5)

Not Voting:

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-01-29 14:35:00)

[TehBrawlGuy]

I am not voting you cause nobody else will, so it's pointless. I mean yeah I could easily change my vote to you but that won't accomplish anything.

@ Teh - I'm against it because it's stupid. here is the thing,

a SK (or scum for that matter) pretending to be a vig wants to make sure they shoot the "right person" so they don't get flack for shooting wrong.

Where as a real vig will trust their own judgement and choose based off their own reads and what other people they think are town would want.

If they don't feel like they can still choose the right person, THEY DON'T FUCKING SHOOT ANYONE.

SKs are TP, so the ideal scenario for Town has them shooting at the scummiest players. If we can set that up, it's a good thing.

Scum have the advantage of knowing who is Scum already. They can easily pick a 'good' target who they know will flip Town and give us a -1. If we mock lynch a Scum, they're forced to either teamkill, no kill, or etc.

ProTown kills should

never

be wasted, with the few exceptions being near LyLo situations. A vidge sending in a No Kill is almost as bad as a No Lynch.

Mock Lynch: Xis, Guille.

[Jal]

For someone who just thinks this is teh interwebs, you sure do give a bunch of care by trying to be an internet tough guy. Grr grow a pair grr!!

You're like a little birdy trying to puff up to make themselves look bigger.



But you look so adorable doing it. I can't hate you Jake.

Just makes me want to hug you and squeeze you and call you George.

[SafetyDance]

@SafetyDance

:

TBG and CD have as of yet, claimed if those cards have contained any power (leave that for now) but we have Jal and Monkey both claiming to have gotten vig cards. This means that, presuming Baby or UN didn't have both cards, they'd have had one each. If scum killed like they do every game, it means one didn't shoot and one did. Using Cheery Dog's tracking of UN, he didn't go anywhere so that would mean Baby killed UN and UN didn't shoot, whilst scum killed Baby.

That's the scenario I see based on the claims ("facts") we have.

Anything wrong with it?

Plenty.

1. You assume that there is only one scum faction.
2. You assume at least one town vig used their power.
3. You assume that there was no role interference by either scum denial or town protective.

Assuming that the expensive properties actually do give vig powers (this I consider true) I still think that most likely neither vig shot, the SK killed UN and mafia (or only very slightly possibly, a vig) killed Baby Spice.

You forgot one. I'm also assuming everyone is telling the truth.

You seem to be assuming your guess on what exactly? I'm at least looking at everything we have and trying to make a theory out of it, not apply my own theory to the current circumstances.

We have two claimed vig cards with the town who ended dead last night but you think its more likely that a standard SK (with no power from cards) killed rather than two of the people who held the cards? I think you're the one assuming a lot here. A vig can't have killed Baby Spice unless you're claiming Cheer Dog is lying.

We could sit here until next Christmas thinking about who got roleblocked or re-directed but if you know anything by an educated or more on whom it may have been, say so and explain how it breaks down the chain of events.

[SafetyDance]

Spoiler: Lord Mhork quote

This is annoying. If it wasn't for Mehdi's night action claim then I would totally be up for lynching between Monkey and Jal right now. There's gotta be some bad claims in amongst this and I think this one takes it. AI's play from the start was bad too.

Anyway, there's no rush to hammer, not that I'm adverse to get a lynch out of the way before a deadline, but we need to discuss everything and all permeations because I don't doubt that all tracker/watcher claims are going to get out of the night alive, or at the least not roleblocked so we need to be prepared and make sure we're at least set up so that if anything happens we can catch it. At least take this up coming weekend to discuss everything, I have plenty of thoughts I need to put down and working out to go through as well.

Hang on, so is it actually possible the mafia has no killing roles? Is that balanced?

Seriously, where have you been for the last day of play? You're one of the lurkers or coasters here but your reads have looked pro-town, especially on Lurker early on but now you're either claiming stupidity or feigning ignorance. Massive game-play change.

I'm not feigning ignorance. We now have two deaths and two people claiming Vig cards along with seemingly everyone agreeing that killing is tied to the roles. Does this mean that scum has no kills? Just a factional kill? Could one of the Vig claims really be scum? (such as monkey)

Also, if mafia gets a factional kill, does that mean someone was blocked? Someone no shot? What happened?

Sorry I'm not dominating the game.

I am reading along, though. Closely.

There's just little for me to really comment on.

@that dude who said cheery's intent to hammer was scum risk:
Why?

(sorry for being short. I'm on my phone. >.<)

The problem is this:

Why is there a giant wagon on mehdi? 0.o

There is no valid reason why you would not know why there is a wagon on Mehdi. In fact it directly contradicts with the statement in red. If you were reading closely, even whilst not being able to post a lot you would know. In fact it would be hard not to, discussion goes on for several pages.

So either its stupidity, ignorance, or you're scum. And TBG backing you up looks terrible too.

Tonally Town, content post-early D1 is Town,

1-shot Doc claim is Town

. Tracker result is weird, but I'm chalking it up to a roleblocker.

Ya rly?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4348301

I don't have any context for that, though. Under what circumstances did he claim, and so on?

You're being purposely dense. You don't need any context, you just need to know that it was a recent game where an x-shot doc was claimed and it was by scum....and that town got off wagon after the claim.

***
I can't see why everyone seems to be comfortable letting Mehdi off and into the night so easily at the expense of Monkey. I can't see how his play is so scummy it outweighs Mehdi making a claim that contradicts what I saw at night.

I'd rather know one way or the other if he is town, then guessing at someone else. The cons for letting a potential scum go into the night are too big imo.

[SafetyDance]

Any reason you're trying to bring the mock-lynch back into favour Jal? Only person before that wanted it was Mehdi.

At the moment I'd say cross-kill each other, vig claims are always dodgy.

I agree with Jake though, why don't you trust your own reads? How is knowing what others want going to help town in anyway?

[Cheery Dog]

I'm also assuming everyone is telling the truth.

But Mehdi is lying about using the doctor card?

[Cheery Dog]

At the moment I'd say cross-kill each other, vig claims are always dodgy.

And then risk both vigs cards possibly fall into scum hands? or for more people to end up claiming receiving said cards only to do the same tomorrow night?

UNVOTE:

[Jal]

I already answered this one.

I already made it clear who I think is scum and who I'll probably kill.

I want to mainly know who people think is scum and should be shot.

How is town not sharing elementary crap going to hurt town, exactly? No one is willing to share crap all, and I seriously would not be surprised that at least one of the few who has shared their reads on anything concerning this is scum.

[SafetyDance]

I'm also assuming everyone is telling the truth.

But Mehdi is lying about using the doctor card?

Can always start thinking you're lying about not killing UN if you'd prefer it.

At the moment I'd say cross-kill each other, vig claims are always dodgy.

And then risk both vigs cards possibly fall into scum hands? or for more people to end up claiming receiving said cards only to do the same tomorrow night?

UNVOTE:

What says the cards aren't already in scum hands?

I already answered this one.

I already made it clear who I think is scum and who I'll probably kill.

I want to mainly know who people think is scum and should be shot.

How is town not sharing elementary crap going to hurt town, exactly? No one is willing to share crap all, and I seriously would not be surprised that at least one of the few who has shared their reads on anything concerning this is scum.

No one has said they don't want to share, they dont want to mock-lynch. There's a difference between asking people to mock-lynch and asking them to discuss reads.

If you've already made up your mind then there is no reason why you'd need to know who others think should be shot.

[Cheery Dog]

At the moment I'd say cross-kill each other, vig claims are always dodgy.

And then risk both vigs cards possibly fall into scum hands? or for more people to end up claiming receiving said cards only to do the same tomorrow night?

UNVOTE:

What says the cards aren't already in scum hands?

My (and almost everyone else's) town read of Jal does - though it is quite possible Monkey's is in scum hands currently, as such he is currently most likely to be lynched.